View Full Version : Difficulty Level : State-by-State
I have a question for those who have completed the AT or have knowledge of the different sections.
How would you compare the difficulty of the following states compared to Georgia: Massachusettes, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia & Virginia.
I'm working on my itinerary for my '07 thru-hike and trying to figure out approximate daily mileage for each state. I know.. I know.. a lot of people in here don't like being a 'mileage slave' but I prefer to speed pack and I'm more focused on completing my hike with a lofty goal as opposed to taking my time and spending time in the trail towns. I figure I can take it easy on my hikes when I'm older and the body isn't as cooperative. :D
I do plan on taking it easy (15-18MPD) in Maine, New Hampshire & Vermont and then focusing on speed and mileage for the rest of the trail.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Phreak
Jack Tarlin
08-01-2006, 14:50
Of the states you mentioned, Georgia is probably the most demanding, for any number of reasons:
*In Georgia, hikers are new to the Trail
*They're not yet in tip-top shape, and in many cases, not even close
*The weather can be troublesome, especially for early starters
*The terrain is quite rugged in many places
However, you won't be there long. Most folks are out of Georgia in 7-8 days.
The mid-Atlantic states are fairly easy terrain-wise (except for some brief rocky stretches in Pennsylvania), but your main enemies in Maryland, PA, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts will be heat, unreliable water sources, and bugs.
West Virginia is a non-issue. You skirt the state briefly in Virginia, and then you're doing a few easy miles in the Harpers Ferry area.
Virginia is considered "difficult" mainly because of its extreme length: You're going to be there a long time. It takes most folks 6-7 weeks to traverse the State. I'd consider most of VA to be "easy" to "moderate" in terms of difficulty, with the tougher areas being just South of, and just North of Shenandoah National Park.
Assuming you're planning a six-month hike, you want to be in Harpers Ferry no later than mid-July, and preferably well before that. From there, it takes most hikers 2-3 days for Maryland; 14-19 for PA; around 5-7 apiece for NJ and New York; 2-3 for Connecticut; 5-6 for MA; 9-11 for Vermont; 12-13 for NH; and 20-27 for Maine. Your projected mileage of 15-18 per day in Northern new England is certainly doable, tho you may well have some shorter days, especially in Southern Maine.
Cookerhiker
08-01-2006, 15:14
Agree with Jack's points.
Looking at the phrasing of your question, of all the states you mentioned, the one I'd say is most similar to Georgia is New York. Why? Because despite no single ascents over 1,200 feet, some hikers find both states difficult because you're going up and down all the time. It raises the question: is a single 2,000' ascent more or less difficult than 4 consecutive 500' up-and-downs? I don't know the official statistics but I tell everyone that only 5 of Georgia's 78 miles are level. New York has a few level stretches east of the Hudson but it's mostly hilly.
briarpatch
08-01-2006, 15:22
Look here for some data about hiking rates for various stretches of the AT:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/article.php?p=170578&postcount=1
Thanks for the input!
My plan is to complete my hike in under 100 days but I'll push for 85-90 days. I have completed the GA section several times in less than 48 hours. I also plan on completing Conn. and Maryland in 24 hours each, and Mass, NY & NJ in 48 hours each.
I think with my current base weight 'tween 13-15 pounds, I shouldn't have a problem with this mileage.
vipahman
08-01-2006, 15:40
I also plan on completing Conn. and Maryland in 24 hours each, and Mass, NY & NJ in 48 hours each. MA - 90 miles
CT - 52 miles
NY - 88 miles
NJ - 74 miles
MD - 41 miles
I can say that the terrain in NJ and NY is along every rock in those states and makes for an uncomfortable hike most of the way. You may want to increase your time from 4 to 6 days.
I don't have any experience with MA, CT or MD. But 52mpd in CT is a lofty target. Wish you luck.:cool:
But 52mpd in CT is a lofty target. Wish you luck.:cool:
Thanks!
I completed 52.6 miles in GA back in late Spring in 19 hours in heavy thunderstorms and several periods of marble size hail. I figure if I can't complete that hike, I can get through just about anything else that is thrown at me. :eek:
I've been able to average 'tween 30-35 MPD over the last year and a half when I took up speed packing.
My ultramarathon background has helped me a lot with covering high mileage days.
We'll see what happens once I'm out there.
Thanks!
I completed 52.6 miles in GA back in late Spring in 19 hours in heavy thunderstorms and several periods of marble size hail. I figure if I can't complete that hike, I can get through just about anything else that is thrown at me. :eek:
I've been able to average 'tween 30-35 MPD over the last year and a half when I took up speed packing.
My ultramarathon background has helped me a lot with covering high mileage days.
We'll see what happens once I'm out there.man thats flying!make sure to put a camera on the back of the pack as you hike.ky
Time To Fly 97
08-01-2006, 16:37
That is cool Phreak!
Make sure you bring an ultralight red cape!
TTF
Thanks!
I completed 52.6 miles in GA back in late Spring in 19 hours in heavy thunderstorms and several periods of marble size hail. I figure if I can't complete that hike, I can get through just about anything else that is thrown at me. :eek:
Well, no need to think about changing your trail name! Best of luck, Phreak! ;)
Hi Phreak!
I remember meeting you on your way to Springer Mountain Shelter during the hike you mentioned in this post. You were haulin' arse when you rolled up on us taking a break near the summit of Blood Mountain. I'm glad to hear you made it in under your goal of 24 hours or less. You were a 'man posessed' that day. :D
Good luck on your '07 thruhike!
Did you have a buddy with 2 dogs waiting for you at Springer shelter May 14th? I was talking to him and he was saying he had a friend doing like back to back 36 mile days. Was that you?
Bigben
Skidsteer
08-01-2006, 19:17
Did you have a buddy with 2 dogs waiting for you at Springer shelter May 14th? I was talking to him and he was saying he had a friend doing like back to back 36 mile days. Was that you?
Bigben
I was wondering the same thing, Bigben!
Did you have a buddy with 2 dogs waiting for you at Springer shelter May 14th?
Yeah, that was my buddy JC ("Sherpa") with my two dogs.
He dropped me off at Unicoi Gap and I hiked to Springer Mountain Shelter. I also hit the Whitley Gap Shelter along the way to get the mileage up to 52+ miles. I'd done several hikes of 45-49 miles in under 24 hours but hadn't hit the 50 mile mark until this trip. I was on pace to complete it in roughly 14 hours but the storms blew in and there was just no way to maintain 3.5-4.0 mph in those conditions. I could handle the wind and rain, but the marble size hail and lightning were no picnic and slowed me down considerably.
I was talking to him and he was saying he had a friend doing like back to back 36 mile days. Was that you?
I did back to back 40 miles days on the Foothills Trail the week prior to this hike, JC may have been referring to that trip.
bigben,
I see you are from Cincinnati. Whereabouts? I grew up in Sharonville and graduated from Princeton High School.
Small world. Those are crazy miles, way too crazy for my taste. Our 4th day on that trip, we did 12.5 and that was fine for me. Sure I can do more, but after 12 I quit enjoying it as much.
I'm from North College Hill, but now live in Bridgetown and work for Anderson Township Fire Department. Maybe I'll see you on the trail sometime(albiet for about 30 seconds). I'm doing a section a year for the next 22 years, at which point I'll retire and do a full thru-hike. At least that's the plan as of now.
Bigben
Nightwalker
08-01-2006, 23:20
I did back to back 40 miles days on the Foothills Trail the week prior to this hike, JC may have been referring to that trip.
I had heard of someone beating Many Sleep's 3 day record, but I thought it was impossible.
That same trail is one I usually walk in 5-6 days.
Of course, unless you did the Fork Mountaain loop or walked some twice, twin 40s is kinda hard. It's a 76 mile trail. :)
Almost There
08-01-2006, 23:44
Personally, I think Central Va is rougher than Georgia as a section hiker, perhaps this because I live in Ga., but I don't think Georgia is particularly difficult, it's nice and switchbacked, and other than the climb out of Unicoi. I agree with Jack that Ga, gets a billing as tough because most people hike it out of shape and oversupplied!
Kerosene
08-02-2006, 06:20
I agree with Almost There, Georgia didn't seem all that difficult to this section hiker. While I haven't done NC, TN, NH, or ME yet, the rocks north of Duncannon slow me a lot more than a few thousand feet of elevation change. Of course, I did most of the Mid-Atlantic states back in the 70's when I was carrying a 45-50 pound pack. Back then I averaged 12-13 mpd for those hikes, while I've been averaging 16-17 mpd "down south" with a 25-30 pound pack and I feel better at the end of the day.
Of course, unless you did the Fork Mountaain loop or walked some twice, twin 40s is kinda hard. It's a 76 mile trail. :)
Yes, I know it's only 76 miles :) , I was dropped off 2 miles from the start and added 2 miles to the finish. We used my car to determine the extra 4 miles, it may be off by +/- .1 mile. I'm not familiar enough with this trail or length of the side trails to use them to add the extra miles.
Yea, with a new pack and plan those first miles were tough in Georgia.
Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, West Virginia & Virginia, to me were much easier than Georgia. Though they all have their challenges.
Penn is tough because of rocks, but for the most part, I didn't think the climbs were that bad. The days are long, and the miles slip by fairly quickly.
Mass, while maybe not as tough as Georgia, was difficult to me. It seemed like the relatively easy hiking across Jersey, NY and Conn ended, and it was a wake up call for what lay ahead in New England. Miles were harder to come by after this point. It may have been because NY was about the point where I left the last of my fat reserves and really had to focus on diet.
You've got to "Hike Your Own Hike", but I would add that "focusing on speed and mileage for the rest of the trail" is not something I would do. Speed will happen without "focus."
vipahman
08-02-2006, 10:25
I completed 52.6 miles in GA back in late Spring in 19 hours in heavy thunderstorms and several periods of marble size hail. I figure if I can't complete that hike, I can get through just about anything else that is thrown at me. :eek:
That is very impressive. :cool: Also with your ultra-marathoner background, do you have any interest in breaking the trail record? I'm sure you'll find supporters here just like Squeaky 2 did.
buddha small b
08-02-2006, 11:21
I'm from Pennsylvania and have hiked sections of the A.T. that seem pretty difficult. The biggest problem being rocks. Sharp rocks, slippery rocks, big rocks small rocks, you get the idea. I have heard that PA. is where boots go to die. Most of the stories I have read seem to agree that PA. is right up there regarding degree of difficulty. Throw a lot of ups and downs in there with the rocks and you get the idea.
Since I hike a lot in PA. I'm hoping that when I am able to do my thru hike I will be accustomed and prepared for the PA. section. Happy hiking!
buddha small b
BlackCloud
08-02-2006, 14:12
But 52mpd in CT is a lofty target. Wish you luck.:cool:
26+ is my record for a single day. But THE Bob Marshall routinely hiked 50+ miles in a day. He however, never completed a 2,000 mile hike in that fashion.
I suspect you won't either.
Good luck......
BlackCloud
08-02-2006, 14:14
Personally, I think Central Va is rougher than Georgia as a section hiker, perhaps this because I live in Ga., but I don't think Georgia is particularly difficult, it's nice and switchbacked, and other than the climb out of Unicoi. I agree with Jack that Ga, gets a billing as tough because most people hike it out of shape and oversupplied!
Stretches of Central VA are downright hard. GA IS overrated......
Big Daddy D
08-02-2006, 14:30
Phreak,
If you hiked (?) or ran thru Georgia in one day, why would you even ask us mere mortals about any tough (?) stretches!?!
The largest challenge is the NE states and the rock scaling that many portions of the trail require between the gaps.
I averaged 16 miles a day, but I never hike at night like many folks do.
So great hiking to you-sure hope you keep a journal, because I'd be interested in following your progress.
Regards,
Big Daddy D
Cookerhiker
08-02-2006, 14:31
I'm from Pennsylvania and have hiked sections of the A.T. that seem pretty difficult. The biggest problem being rocks. Sharp rocks, slippery rocks, big rocks small rocks, you get the idea. I have heard that PA. is where boots go to die. Most of the stories I have read seem to agree that PA. is right up there regarding degree of difficulty. Throw a lot of ups and downs in there with the rocks and you get the idea.
Since I hike a lot in PA. I'm hoping that when I am able to do my thru hike I will be accustomed and prepared for the PA. section. Happy hiking!
buddha small b
I've hiked the eastern, rockier part of PA in the last three years including Duncannon to Port Clinton twice. While I certainly agree that portions of PA are tough because of the rocks - largely Swatara Gap to Wind Gap - much of PA is easy especially from PenMar through the Cumberland Valley. Re. PA being "right up there regarding degree of difficulty," I can't agree. Even confining comparisons to the states mentioned by Phreak, Virginia is obviously more difficult than PA, to say nothing of NC, TN, NH, and ME.
Phreak,
If you hiked (?) or ran thru Georgia in one day, why would you even ask us mere mortals about any tough (?) stretches!?!
The largest challenge is the NE states and the rock scaling that many portions of the trail require between the gaps.
I averaged 16 miles a day, but I never hike at night like many folks do.
So great hiking to you-sure hope you keep a journal, because I'd be interested in following your progress.
Regards,
Big Daddy D
I ask about the other sections because I've never hiked the AT in those states. All I have to gauge my abilities with is Georgia & Tennessee sections. I've heard how tough ME, NH & VT can be but did know if it was the general consesus or just a few people who have struggled with these states. I've also heard the 'Va Blues', and was curious if it's really tough or difficult due to the length of trail in this state.
Thanks to everyone for all the great input and information!
B~
26+ is my record for a single day. But THE Bob Marshall routinely hiked 50+ miles in a day. He however, never completed a 2,000 mile hike in that fashion.
I suspect you won't either.
Good luck......
Believe me, I have no illusions I'd be able to do 50+ miles for any stretch such as the AT. But I do believe I can accomplish 30-35 MPD from Mass/VT state line to Springer Mountain. I'll be shutting down my business early next year and spending 6 months strictly preparing for this hike.
I completely understand the skepticism people have with my hiking plans for the AT. If I was reading this and didn't know me, I'd be thinkin' this guy has a couple of screws loose or living in fantasy world or both. :D
I love to challenge myself and constantly push my limits. Ok.. Ok.. I'll shut up now.. I'm rambling.
That is very impressive. :cool: Also with your ultra-marathoner background, do you have any interest in breaking the trail record? I'm sure you'll find supporters here just like Squeaky 2 did.
I don't believe I have what it takes to attempt a trail record. Or at least at this point. I'll wait and see how my '07 hikes pans out.
Jack Tarlin
08-02-2006, 15:08
While I wish Phreak well with his hike, at whatever pace he chooses for himself, I can't help but add this:
I've personally met dozens of folks who hiked the Trail (or were trying to hike the Trail) in 100 days or less.
I can't think of more than a few who honestly enjoyed the experience, and I can think of many who later on expressed regrets over going so quickly.
When looking back years later on their thru-hike and what it meant to them, of the thousands of former thru-hikers I've encountered, I can't recall a single one who expressed the disire to have spent LESS time on the Trail than they actually did.
In other words, very few folks come away from the Trail regretful that they hadn't hiked faster.
It's always the other way around.
The Solemates
08-02-2006, 15:20
I had heard of someone beating Many Sleep's 3 day record, but I thought it was impossible.
That same trail is one I usually walk in 5-6 days.
Of course, unless you did the Fork Mountaain loop or walked some twice, twin 40s is kinda hard. It's a 76 mile trail. :)
There is a guy in upstate SC that has done the FT in a day.
The Solemates
08-02-2006, 15:22
Yes, I know it's only 76 miles :) , I was dropped off 2 miles from the start and added 2 miles to the finish. We used my car to determine the extra 4 miles, it may be off by +/- .1 mile. I'm not familiar enough with this trail or length of the side trails to use them to add the extra miles.
You can make this trail over 130 miles if you take on the Caesar's Head route, add the Jones Gap section, and then up and over Hospital Rock to the church camp. Then again, on the western end it ties up with the Bartram where is leaves the Chattooga, so the possibilities of mileage is virtually endless.
buddha small b
08-02-2006, 15:24
Thanx a lot Cookerhiker.... I just about had myself convined that hiking the trail before and beyond PA. would be a piece of cake. ;)
I have some experience in the Whites, from Lafayette to Washington and Tuckerman Ravine, and have to admit to feeling a bit intimidated but hoping to be fairly well acclimated by that point.
I suspect my challenge to be in the south, particularly Ga. and N.C.
What doesn't kill me should make me stronger eh? :o
Solemate, I hope you don't mean the Florida Trail.
In addition to how difficult sections are, I was wondering how wide are they. The last trail I did in the Smokies was straight up, it was about a boot and a half wide, smooth rocks (so your foot never came down flat), heavily wooded, and a sheer drop down one side. How much of the trail is like that?
I couldn't agree more! I simply don't have or should I say don't want to be on the trail for 6 months. It'll be hard enough being away from my family for 3-4 months. My wife has talked about us hiking the AT in a few years together and then we'll have all the time in the world to take in everything and truly enjoy it at a leisurely pace. So I'm not concerned about missing certain elements of the trail next year, as I won't miss 'em the second time around. :)
But as always, thanks for all the input from everyone. You've been a huge help.
While I wish Phreak well with his hike, at whatever pace he chooses for himself, I can't help but add this:
I've personally met dozens of folks who hiked the Trail (or were trying to hike the Trail) in 100 days or less.
I can't think of more than a few who honestly enjoyed the experience, and I can think of many who later on expressed regrets over going so quickly.
When looking back years later on their thru-hike and what it meant to them, of the thousands of former thru-hikers I've encountered, I can't recall a single one who expressed the disire to have spent LESS time on the Trail than they actually did.
In other words, very few folks come away from the Trail regretful that they hadn't hiked faster.
It's always the other way around.
Cookerhiker
08-02-2006, 16:35
Thanx a lot Cookerhiker.... I just about had myself convined that hiking the trail before and beyond PA. would be a piece of cake. ;)
I have some experience in the Whites, from Lafayette to Washington and Tuckerman Ravine, and have to admit to feeling a bit intimidated but hoping to be fairly well acclimated by that point.
I suspect my challenge to be in the south, particularly Ga. and N.C.
What doesn't kill me should make me stronger eh? :o
Good luck to you. You can do it!:o
Programbo
08-09-2006, 21:36
Thanks for the input! My plan is to complete my hike in under 100 days but I'll push for 85-90 days. I have completed the GA section several times in less than 48 hours. I also plan on completing Conn. and Maryland in 24 hours each, and Mass, NY & NJ in 48 hours each.
I think with my current base weight 'tween 13-15 pounds, I shouldn't have a problem with this mileage.
Why worry about racing thru these areas?..There are a lot of historical sites all thru VA-PA to stop and look at
Programbo
08-09-2006, 21:40
I'm from Pennsylvania and have hiked sections of the A.T. that seem pretty difficult. The biggest problem being rocks. Sharp rocks, slippery rocks, big rocks small rocks, you get the idea. I have heard that PA. is where boots go to die.
The fact that most people wear overblown running shoes as "boots" these days accounts for a lot of the problems..People seem so obsessed with weight of things no one wears a real mountaineering or hiking boot anymore
fiddlehead
08-09-2006, 22:11
Since you're an ultra runner, I am going to assume you've either done the Leadville 100 trail run or the Hardrock. Some of the climbs in the white mtns are as steep as the southside of hope pass (leadville) That makes it tough on the quads for sure. Don't underestimate the whites. Northern VA is probably where you can do your biggest miles. You may want to read David Horton's book. I don't remember the name but he combines his AT run with his transamerica race run all in one book. It makes for good reading. (and Lone Wolf is in it quite a few times)
Also, Wall's book about his PCT run is excellent also. good luck, and have fun
fiddlehead
08-09-2006, 22:15
Wall's book can be found here: http://fiddleheadpa.safeshopper.com/50/cat50.htm?9
and Horton's book here: http://www.extremeultrarunning.com/quest.htm
Spiritual Pillgrim
09-14-2006, 18:42
My plan is to complete my hike in under 100 days but I'll push for 85-90 days.
Why bother hiking at all? Just can't figure out you speed phreaks.
Jack Tarlin
09-14-2006, 19:05
There were two southbounders in town today (Hanover) who don't expect to get to Springer til around Valentine's Day.
Everybody does the Trail their own way.
Doing the Trail in 100 days certainly isn't for everyone---and it certainly isn't possible for everyone either---but people have to find out what works for them.
Jack Tarlin
09-14-2006, 19:29
There were two southbounders in town today (Hanover) who don't expect to get to Springer til around Valentine's Day.
Everybody does the Trail their own way.
Doing the Trail in 100 days certainly isn't for everyone---and it certainly isn't possible for everyone either---but people have to find out what works for them.
The fact that most people wear overblown running shoes as "boots" these days accounts for a lot of the problems..People seem so obsessed with weight of things no one wears a real mountaineering or hiking boot anymore
I lost both vibram soles of full grain leather boots in 16 days sectioning PA. Just my 2 pennies.
Why bother hiking at all? Just can't figure out you speed phreaks.
You have to hike your own hike. I'm not pushing speed hiking on anyone. It's not for everyone. It just happens to work for me and I enjoy it. It's not like I'm oblivious to everything around me when I'm on the trail. I stop at all spots of interest, take tons of photographs, and still have plenty of time to lounge in camp when the day is done.
I can't imagine hiking with a 50 pound pack and covering a few miles per day. But if this works for someone, then I'm very happy for them. I don't feel there is a "wrong way" to hike. Stick with what works.
I've only section hiked most of New England, but here are a couple of surprises.
I found the section in Vermont between the Long Trail and the NH border to be difficult because of the puds and frustrating for lack of views.
Southern Maine was as hard as, if not more so than, the Whites. Hall and Moody mountains were notable for their steepness and poor footing. (Carlo Col, though, just before the Me/NH border, is probably the most mentioned site of falls due to the slippery rock than any other section of the trail I've read about). I slipped and fell there myself.
Mahoosuc notch was a piece of cake. I did it on a nice, dry, cool day. Wouldn't want to do it in the rain, however. Mahoosuc Arm, on the other hand, was a pita!
The lakes region of Maine is worth the trip (assumed, since I'm a section hiker).