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Blissful
08-15-2006, 15:07
What are you all doing for maps of the AT? We have a few of the ATC maps, basically from Springer to MD border. The maps are good but are these the ones to get or are there others? We like more of the topo variety, not just mapdana kind of thing. Also our ones of the Blue Ridge parkway area are from 1975 (yikes).

Thanks!

mingo
08-15-2006, 15:08
you don't need maps

hammock engineer
08-15-2006, 15:17
Do a search on past threads for the arguement for or against maps. Plenty on the subject. I ordered the set from the ATC for this year. Before I leave I am going to check to see if there was any major reroutes and get new maps where needed.

The ATC maps are pretty good IMHO. They also have elevation profiles for the length of the trail.

hopefulhiker
08-15-2006, 15:36
Check on ebay for slightly old maps. a lot of hikers get a set and don't use the second half. I used an old set but let the maps behind in hiker boxes..

hopefulhiker
08-15-2006, 15:36
Check on ebay for slightly old maps. a lot of hikers get a set and don't use the second half. I used an old set but let the maps behind in hiker boxes..

Jack Tarlin
08-15-2006, 16:05
Blissful--

If you decide on a new set, go to www.appalachiantrail.org and go to the section called "The Ultimate Trail Store". Every year, the ATC offers the whole set at a geat discount, usually til around Thanksgiving or so. You'll save further if you're an ATC member, which is a good thing to be.

Others have suggested ways to find used maps inexpensively.

While it is certainly true that the Trail is very well marked indeed, and that it is certainly possible to hike the Trail without them, I for one do not think this is a particularly wise or prident thing to do. There are many threads here dealing with the benefits of travelling with maps and the risks of travelling without them, and I hope you check them out.

Most people skip acquiring maps in order to save money. Based on my experience on the Trail, which is not inconsiderable, I think there are all sorts of better ways to save a few bucks.

rumbler
08-15-2006, 16:32
Hey Jack - Do you still carry maps, or have you managed to commit the trail to memory?

mingo
08-15-2006, 18:08
i repeat -- you don't need maps. here's a news flash for you -- you can just follow the white blazes.

Blissful
08-15-2006, 19:40
i repeat -- you don't need maps. here's a news flash for you -- you can just follow the white blazes.

I could do without the sarcasm when someone is asking a legitimate question in prep for a 2007 hike. It's comments like these that really don't help the hiking community or the integrity of White Blaze.

I don't use the maps to follow a trail. I use it to check for elevation gains, water sources, and mileage. Maps help plan for areas to tent in where every other Tom, Dick or Harry is not also tenting. And I like to see the terrain in which I am walking and to better plan for the day.

I just wanted to know of there are other map sources besides ATC - which are good maps, BTW.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

mingo
08-15-2006, 19:59
so sorry. helping the hiking community and maintaining the integrity of white blaze are uppermost in my mind at all times

rumbler
08-16-2006, 08:16
Elevation maps are very handy for planning purposes on any trail, including the AT. Additionally, maps are essential when something bad happens and you need a quick way to a road - and that certainly can and does happen on the AT.

You can choose not to carry them, and will probably be able to mooch off of more prudent folks when the need arises, at least in the south. But there are better ways IMHO to save both money and weight.

Gray Blazer
08-16-2006, 08:37
i repeat -- you don't need maps. here's a news flash for you -- you can just follow the white blazes.

I'm sorry but I thought that was funny. As Lone Wolf says,"Ya gots ta have a sense of humor."
I like looking at the trail online using Mapquest. You can basically follow the whole AT and see the topos and back away and see exactly where you are in comparison to major cities, highways, etc.

hammock engineer
08-16-2006, 10:17
You can choose not to carry them, and will probably be able to mooch off of more prudent folks when the need arises, at least in the south. But there are better ways IMHO to save both money and weight.

Not singling out rumbler, just this quote.

If you choose not to carry something that you might/will need just b/c of the weight or cost and go with the thought that you can use someone else's, don't ask to use mine.

saimyoji
08-16-2006, 19:31
I could do without the sarcasm when someone is asking a legitimate question in prep for a 2007 hike. It's comments like these that really don't help the hiking community or the integrity of White Blaze.

I don't use the maps to follow a trail. I use it to check for elevation gains, water sources, and mileage. Maps help plan for areas to tent in where every other Tom, Dick or Harry is not also tenting. And I like to see the terrain in which I am walking and to better plan for the day.

I just wanted to know of there are other map sources besides ATC - which are good maps, BTW.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

You are absolutely justified in your reasons for carrying maps. I'd agree that not all water sources are on the maps, and even if they are, they may not be reliable at all times. My map set (Keystone Trails) of PA has lots of other information including local contact phone #s, side trails and points of interest. It has camping and fire rules which are important as you can't always legally just find a soft place and set up your camp.

I always hike with my maps, even on short day trips I've done many times. You just never know.

Having said this, many people don't use maps and enjoy their hikes very much.

And if you ever need to take a peak at mine, I'll be glad to help you out. I'll show you the way to the nearest outfitter where you can buy your own. :D

The Old Fhart
08-16-2006, 22:34
Maybe if you don't know how to use maps or understand their value then you could might say they aren't needed. Unfortunately, maps are like a 1st aid kit- they aren't "needed" until you really need them in an emergency. From my experience, the people who say they don't need maps are just too lazy to carry them and are always asking the hikers with the maps: "can I see your map?"

I have been hiking in the Whites for 45 years and know the trails well but I always carry a map of the area I'm hiking in. A map can indicate escape routes in case of an accident or bad weather, and white blazes in a snow storm or whiteout don't mean squat.

saimyoji
08-16-2006, 22:42
Maybe if you don't know how to use maps or understand their value then you could might say they aren't needed. Unfortunately, maps are like a 1st aid kit- they aren't "needed" until you really need them in an emergency. From my experience, the people who say they don't need maps are just too lazy to carry them and are always asking the hikers with the maps: "can I see your map?"

I have been hiking in the Whites for 45 years and know the trails well but I always carry a map of the area I'm hiking in. A map can indicate escape routes in case of an accident or bad weather, and white blazes in a snow storm or whiteout don't mean squat.

This is the reason I ALWAYS carry extra (food, water, clothing) with me no matter the length of my hike. I've never had any real serious situations, but you never know when it can happen to you.

Better safe than sorry
Be prepared
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound on cure
...insert your own cliche...

Michele
08-17-2006, 08:57
I was inquiring about purchasing the full map set at the ATC, and this is what Teresa (from the ATC) emailed back to me:

....you might want to wait. First, the New
York-New Jersey maps are being redone (available by September, we hope).
One or two other maps might be revised this year, but not as
extensively. Second, we have a tradition each November/December of
offering all current guides (books and maps) plus the next year's Data
Book for about 40% off retail. Last year, that package was $190, so you
get a lot more for a little less.

Teresa L. Tumblin
Sales Manager
AppalachianTrail Conservancy
179 East Burr Boulevard
Unit N
Kearneysville, WV 25430
(304) 728-5143


I feel 100% confident that I could make it the entire way without maps, BUT, I really love reading maps, they give me a sense of where I am within the bigger picture, and I like to know what's coming up so I can look forward to it. It's not about "needing" them so I don't get lost, so I think it's a lot like the option to carry a book for entertainment or a map...only a book probably won't have info on how to get to the nearest town in case of emergency. Happy hiking everyone! :banana

SGT Rock
08-18-2006, 07:30
Get the maps. It does a few things:

In an emergency you can find out what is the fastest way to bail. It helps you find water. Helps you determine elevation gains and losses. Helps you pick campsites. Helps you orient to the places around the trail besides the green tunnel you can only see at times...

You could go without them. But you could also go without brushing your teeth, wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, wear seat-belts, paying taxes, etc. I wouldn't recommend any of these, but some people forgo them and think others are silly for doing so. You decide.

And finally, the trail is free. but it costs money to build, protect, and maintain. Buying maps helps that while giving you a guide to the trail at the same time. You help the trail by getting a set and you help yourself at the same time. What a deal!

rumbler
08-18-2006, 07:38
Get the maps. It does a few things:

And finally, the trail is free. but it costs money to build, protect, and maintain. Buying maps helps that while giving you a guide to the trail at the same time. You help the trail by getting a set and you help yourself at the same time. What a deal!

Well put Sarge.

Kerosene
08-18-2006, 08:25
I always bring a map on my hikes, but then again I've loved maps since I was a 5-year old, when I showed my mom how water droplets in the sink had coalesced to form an outline of New Guinea. :o

I've never personally had to use a map for myself in an emergency, but I did get the opportunity to use it to help out another person (story previously posted on another thread awhile back).

In October 2001 I was doing a 5-day hike to fill in a gap in my AT coverage from Front Royal north to Harpers Ferry. Towards the end of Day 3, just north of Sam Moore Shelter and about 3 miles south of Bears Den Hostel, I ran into a teenage girl walking headed SOBO. She wasn't dressed to hike nor did she have any equipment, and it was going to be dark in few hours and there were no real road crossings for another 10 miles. As I always do, I stopped to chat, and asked where she was headed. She said her friends had dropped her off at the road and she was walking back home to a town east of the ridge that I had remembered seeing on the map. I told her that I thought she was heading the wrong way, but she insisted this was the right direction. I had to pull out my map to show her where we were and where she was dropped off before she was convinced and turned around.

I tried to keep up with her but she obviously felt pressed for time and I lost her on the uphill to the hostel. Nice to know that I saved her a cold night in the woods, along with a search & rescue team.

icemanat95
08-18-2006, 09:39
i repeat -- you don't need maps. here's a news flash for you -- you can just follow the white blazes.

The number of times I have seen people who "just follow the white blazes" going the wrong way on the trail or at a road junction is comically high. As is the number of times a mapless hiker has asked me if they could look at my maps.

The maps produced by the ATC are probably the best available. They are based on USGS topo maps with trails and shelters fixed on them as accurately as possible.

The ability to navigate by map and compass is a basic gateway skill for backcountry travel, If you cannot navigate cross country with map and compass, you need to learn. Carrying proper maps and a compass when travelling in the backcountry (whether you think you need them or not) is a basic responsibility of backcountry travellers.

icemanat95
08-18-2006, 09:50
i repeat -- you don't need maps. here's a news flash for you -- you can just follow the white blazes.

The number of times I have seen people who "just follow the white blazes" going the wrong way on the trail or at a road junction is comically high. As is the number of times a mapless hiker has asked me if they could look at my maps.

The maps produced by the ATC are probably the best available. They are based on USGS topo maps with trails and shelters fixed on them as accurately as possible.

The ability to navigate by map and compass is a basic gateway skill for backcountry travel, If you cannot navigate cross country with map and compass, you need to learn. Carrying proper maps and a compass when travelling in the backcountry (whether you think you need them or not) is a basic responsibility of backcountry travellers providing the tools to help them get out of trouble or to help others get out of trouble.

mingo
08-18-2006, 10:32
gee iceman, i guess you're just a really smart guy to see the essential nature of maps. because i hike all the time on the a.t. and i never carry a map and i've never gotten lost and i've never asked anyone to see their maps. you map-carriers are kind of like jesus freaks. if you don't see things their way, there's something wrong with you.

mingo
08-18-2006, 11:07
I tried to keep up with her but she obviously felt pressed for time and I lost her on the uphill to the hostel. Nice to know that I saved her a cold night in the woods, along with a search & rescue team.

you should also carry some insulin in case you run into a diabetic who needs a shot

SGT Rock
08-18-2006, 11:16
gee iceman, i guess you're just a really smart guy to see the essential nature of maps. because i hike all the time on the a.t. and i never carry a map and i've never gotten lost and i've never asked anyone to see their maps. you map-carriers are kind of like jesus freaks. if you don't see things their way, there's something wrong with you.

Wow, I guess there is something wrong with me then. I carry maps.

And I can admit I have a fault.

What is yours?

Lone Wolf
08-18-2006, 11:25
you should also carry some insulin in case you run into a diabetic who needs a shot
you should **** hoss!

mingo
08-18-2006, 11:43
Wow, I guess there is something wrong with me then. I carry maps.

And I can admit I have a fault.

What is yours?

you misunderstood what i was saying there, sarge. i was saying that map-carriers are always lecturing we non-map carriers and insisting that we carry maps even though we don't want to carry maps. non-map carriers, on the other hand, are tolerant of map carriers and don't give a rat's ass whether they carry maps or not. get it?

Lone Wolf
08-18-2006, 11:50
you misunderstood what i was saying there, sarge. i was saying that map-carriers are always lecturing we non-map carriers and insisting that we carry maps even though we don't want to carry maps. non-map carriers, on the other hand, are tolerant of map carriers and don't give a rat's ass whether they carry maps or not. get it?
You're full of s**t. You're just lucky you haven't had to find the quickest way to a road in an emergency. I had to 3 different times and I guarantee I know the AT better than you. Do you have health insurance? Car insurance? Life insurance? If so, why?

mingo
08-18-2006, 12:02
wah, wah, wah. what a baby you are

Lone Wolf
08-18-2006, 12:04
Yes I know. I aspire to to as tough as you. A real man.:rolleyes:

mingo
08-18-2006, 12:11
ditch those maps. take a chance. you could probably find the nearest road without them. if you just keep walking on the trail, you'll probably find one, don't you think? live free or die! stop being such a damn baby

The Old Fhart
08-18-2006, 12:18
Mingo-"i was saying that map-carriers are always lecturing we non-map carriers and insisting that we carry maps even though we don't want to carry maps."Us thrus with shoes are always lecturing non shoe-wearers hiking the trail as well.:D (a few people have tried). Just because you don't want to carry one of the ten essentials doesn't make it a viable option. Your arrogance about going without maps only displays ignorance, not skill.

SGT Rock
08-18-2006, 12:22
Ahhh, so your problem is you don't like maps.

One must have asked you for your shelter registration in the Smokies.

Gray Blazer
08-18-2006, 12:28
ditch those maps. take a chance. you could probably find the nearest road without them. if you just keep walking on the trail, you'll probably find one, don't you think? live free or die! stop being such a damn baby

Ahhh...just like the old days. A real discussion. If you want everybody to live free or die, then why do you want them to take a chance? Shouldn't they be free to carry a map or not?

mingo
08-18-2006, 12:34
Us thrus with shoes are always lecturing non shoe-wearers hiking the trail as well.:D (a few people have tried). Just because you don't want to carry one of the ten essentials doesn't make it a viable option. Your arrogance about going without maps only displays ignorance, not skill.

your refusal to go without a map displays the fact that you are a big pussy, fart

The Old Fhart
08-18-2006, 13:06
mingo-"your refusal to go without a map displays the fact that you are a big pussy, fart"Yup-you got me there. After teaching map and compass in the NHAMC's advanced leadership section for 25 years and having found over 1400 geocaches in 2 years, I ain't nothing but a map wimp.:D

But I can spell my name (which you've shown you lack the ability to do). You remind me of the late Alexander Supertramp. See if you can read this passage from Outside Magazine, I know it is long and has big words, but give it a try.(emphasis mine)

Actually, he wasn't cut off at all: A quarter-mile downstream from where he had tried to cross, the Teklanika rushes through a narrow gorge spanned by a hand-operated tram--a metal basket suspended from pulleys on a steel cable. If he had known about it, crossing the Teklanika to safety would have been little more than a casual task. Also, six miles due south of the bus, an easy day's walk up the main fork of the Sushana, the National Park Service maintains a cabin stocked with food, bedding, and first-aid supplies for the use of backcountry rangers on their winter patrols. This cabin is plainly marked on most topographic maps of the area, but McCandless, lacking such a map, had no way of knowing about it.

Blissful
08-18-2006, 13:14
As my mother always told me - he he - it's not what you say but how you say it. It's fine with me if one wants to go without maps. Go for it. Hike your own hike. But this thread was to find out if there are other avenues for maps beside the ATC versions. And I really appreciate the feedback and now think ATC maps is most likely the way to go.

As for me personally - well, I love maps. And BTW - I'm a Jesus freak too. He's de Man. :)

mingo
08-18-2006, 13:37
But I can spell my name (which you've shown you lack the ability to do). You remind me of the late Alexander Supertramp. See if you can read this passage from Outside Magazine, I know it is long and has big words, but give it a try.(emphasis mine)

how'd you get old fhart for a name? was old dickhead already taken?

mingo
08-18-2006, 13:39
You remind me of the late Alexander Supertramp. See if you can read this passage from Outside Magazine, I know it is long and has big words, but give it a try.(emphasis mine)

tell you what, fart, if i ever go into the alaskan backcountry, i'll bring a map. or if i ever go off into injun territory to trap furs

The Old Fhart
08-18-2006, 13:42
mingo-"how'd you get old fhart for a name? was old dickhead already taken?'You beat me to it!:D

Gray Blazer
08-18-2006, 13:50
tell you what, fart, if i ever go into the alaskan backcountry, i'll bring a map. or if i ever go off into injun territory to trap furs

You don't trap furs, you trap animals.

mingo
08-18-2006, 13:52
You don't trap furs, you trap animals.

see, if i carried a map, i'd know that

mingo
08-18-2006, 13:55
You don't trap furs, you trap animals.

can you trap a fur-bearing animal? what if you're a fur trapper? can you trap fur then?

HapKiDo
09-07-2006, 23:33
mingo, what do you do for a living that makes you so sarcastic and flippant?

the question has been asked and answered regarding what other options for maps are available for thru-hikers. the atc has a corner on that market and purchasing atc maps helps the trail, so it's a win-win for map purchasers.

if you want to go mapless on the appalachian trail, that's your hyoh. but your responses didn't address the initial question and when this was mentioned, you spouted more sarcasm.

you might want to read the post before responding to it.

btw, are you a thru hiker, a section hiker, or a gonna-be-some-day?

HapKiDo
Do not say: "When I am free I will pursue wisdom." Perhaps you will never be free. The Talmud

Nean
09-08-2006, 00:43
mingo, what do you do for a living that makes you so sarcastic and flippant?

the question has been asked and answered regarding what other options for maps are available for thru-hikers. the atc has a corner on that market and purchasing atc maps helps the trail, so it's a win-win for map purchasers.

if you want to go mapless on the appalachian trail, that's your hyoh. but your responses didn't address the initial question and when this was mentioned, you spouted more sarcasm.

you might want to read the post before responding to it.

btw, are you a thru hiker, a section hiker, or a gonna-be-some-day?

HapKiDo
Do not say: "When I am free I will pursue wisdom." Perhaps you will never be free. The Talmud
wow

Well, I don't want to read this whole thread, but I will tell you how I started out. I wanted to buy all the maps, but the outfitter in Dallas only had Maine. I was sobo, on a budget, and didn't now if I'd make it 50 miles. I figured I'd buy maps along the way, if need be. What happened then, and ever since --was that I found maps in shelters and hiker boxes, or asked hikers along the way. Maps can be helpful at times; I won't argue. If someone gave me the set I'd carry them. It is great/smart to have them. They will make you mad many times over:D , but that one time they save you, makes them worth the weight. Do you really HAVE TO HAVE them? No.:eek: Is it better (for lack of a better word :rolleyes: ) to have than to have not? Yes.

The data book will get you there, and the philosopherer (;)), companion will fill in most of the blanks. Maps give you the whole picture, or nice slice, and are wonderful to have.

Nightwalker
09-08-2006, 07:29
gee iceman, i guess you're just a really smart guy to see the essential nature of maps. because i hike all the time on the a.t. and i never carry a map and i've never gotten lost and i've never asked anyone to see their maps. you map-carriers are kind of like jesus freaks. if you don't see things their way, there's something wrong with you.
Maps are a personal decision. The back and forth is silly.

Also, I actually am a Jesus freak. That, however, has nothing to do with whether there might or might not be something wrong with you personally. :)

Omarwannahike
09-11-2006, 16:45
I am buying the maps and guides, however I am using them and websites such as this one to annotate the data book. Knowing where it is steep, rocky, etc, etc is more important to me than seeig the dots of the trail over a topo map, having said that the maps for sections ahead of me will be sent on to the mail drops and if not needed sent home (well, to my brother)

I also read that some states, like Pa, maps need a lot of improvement and might as well not carry them.

They are heavy, heavier than the ones produces by the NYNJTC for local non-AT trails (Tyvek).

The first guide I bought was for Shenandoah, it is good, trail descriptions are S-N and N-s, but over half of is are local trails and nothing to do with the AT really.

I also have (before the AT came into view for me) DeLorme Topo USA which I use for localized profile maps, etc. I am sure any Topo app can let you do this... Nat Geo has Topo, for example.

The ONE thing I gave up on early was a GPS device of any kind.

My humble opinon.

Jack Tarlin
09-11-2006, 16:56
The Pennsylvania maps have been re-done recently, and are actually quite handsome; they're now among the best on the Trail.

Your best place to get maps is still the ATC (www.appalachiantrail.org then click on "Ultimate Trail Store")

Each year, the entire set can be purchased at a great discount, which is even greater if you're an ATC member.

Daddy Longlegs
09-11-2006, 18:08
Are there any maps that just show the elevation from the side? That way no one has to buy a complete set. Or why doesn't the thru-hikers companion have it for each section of the trail?

Jack Tarlin
09-11-2006, 18:17
1. Because it'd be very expensive to commission new elevation profiles for
the whole Trail. A great deal of work is involved in compiling information
of this sort.
2. Because it'd be a major copyright violation to reprint existing ones.
3. Because if people want only the profiles, they can obtain a map set and
cut em up, or photocopy only the parts they want, etc.
4. Because the maps are a great source of revenue for both the ATC and
the regional Trail clubs who produce them. The Companion is published
by the ATC; putting either the maps, the elevation profiles, or both, in the
Companion would cost the ATC thousands of dollars in revenue, in addition
to encouraging folks to hike with just the profiles and NOT with the maps,
which is not something the ATC wants to encourage.

hikerjohnd
09-11-2006, 18:19
I would still like to see the maps standardized - I find it irritating to have to keep switching from one type of map to another.

Jack Tarlin
09-11-2006, 19:03
If not standardized, I'd like to see 'em all modeled after the Maine maps, which are remarkably well done.

But I'm not holding my breath.

The Old Fhart
09-11-2006, 19:28
I still remember the many small 1986 Keystone Trail Association maps for PA that were black and white with the trail profile that looked like a first draft done by hand; or the GA maps from the same era that were in meters while the guidebook had everything listed in feet. There have been some improvements.

Omarwannahike
09-11-2006, 19:37
I suggest getting a Topo map app, I use DeLorme, only because it was on sale at Campmor, you can dl a 'new' data set for it from their forums, or use the ATC's coord file to have your own AT, then, (depends on how much time you want to spend on doing all of this) you select parts of it (from coord to coord) and profile them, you can play around with altitude exageration, etc, etc, then print it out. I use the profile often... (bad knees) and just to show off and confuse my co-workers.

I have not ever imported nifo from a GPS, but if you can, backpaker.com and a few other sites have GPS device info for download.

BTW, the Shenandoah and NJ\NY maps I have all have profiles on the back side of the maps, they are good and big :)

A note on Topo software, both DeLorme and NatGeo allow you to bring in aerial pics as overlays, it's killer when applied to the 3D relief of the trail. however.

Having said all of this, the most technological device I am taching with me on the trail, is a stove. I think all these tools are great, but, I rather be hking than playing around with software at work.

Thanks,


Are there any maps that just show the elevation from the side? That way no one has to buy a complete set. Or why doesn't the thru-hikers companion have it for each section of the trail?

saimyoji
09-11-2006, 20:05
How about this: WB does something like the "Roaming Gnome" thing where we buy a GPS unit that does mapping and waypoints and has satelite linkup and all that good stuff. Then, we have several different hikers pass the GPS up the trail as they hike. As they go they send data back to Troll or Rock or whoever is good with the software, then we generate our own profiles which will be available here on the site for free or very cheap download. They can then be printed at will, or offered on sale printed on waterproof paper for a small fee.

I volunteer to hike my area in PA. :cool:

Omarwannahike
09-11-2006, 20:40
you might be able to get a GPS company lend GPS for that purpose.
It sounds like a sweet idea.