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tlbj6142
04-05-2003, 00:19
I bought the ATC's "Southwest VA" guide/map packet for a trip I plan to make later this spring.

After looking at the trail guide and having seen the companion and the handbook (I haven't seen the databook yet), I have to wonder why there is so much overlapped with the information in these books. Seems like all of it could be put into a single book per state/reigon.

Besides the current section's map(s), what guides (trail, handbook, compainion and/or databook) should we carry on a thru? Why?

chris
04-05-2003, 09:45
I would carry the companion (or wingfoot) and the relevant maps. Break up the companion into sections.

tlbj6142
04-05-2003, 11:16
So, what's the point of the trail guides and the databook? History lessons?:-?

Dirtyoldman
04-05-2003, 11:25
different strokes for different folks.....

chris
04-05-2003, 13:38
History and background, I suppose. Some people feel more comfortable with the guides. It depends on the person, I suppose.

Some people like the data book along with the companion. The companion lists very few campspots or water sources outside of shelters. The databook has more of this. The companion has good town info which the data book, I believe, lacks. Wingfoot seems to be a popular compromise.

Jeff
04-05-2003, 14:01
I have never seen anyone using the "Trail Guide" while hiking. It has just way more information than needed to get from Point A to Point B.

It is nice to read at home!

steve hiker
04-05-2003, 15:23
I'd use a data book mainly for water sources.

Scamp
04-05-2003, 15:34
I used the maps and the Companion last year.
For my section hike this year I reduced
the maps on a photcopier, and pasted the
databook pages, also reduced, on two
pieces of paper. Much lighter than 10
maps, or even 2 maps. I also have the
Companion sections in my maildrops.
Kinko laminated my consolidated maps/databook for $4.

Many people use only the Data Book.
They were always interested in the elevation
profiles on my maps.

One couple I hiked with, section hikers,
photocopied relevant pages from the
State's Guidebook.It has very detailed info on mileage and
ground reference points.
Some people just follow the white lines.
Scamp

Peaks
04-05-2003, 16:55
If you ever looked at maps from 30 years ago, you quickly realize that they left much to be desired. They were very basic. Not much information at all. Hense, at that time, the guide book portion was very necessary to give you a description of the trail.

Over the last couple of decades, the quality of maps has dramitically improved. And, I also think that the trail is better maintained and blazed. As a result, the guide book's importance has diminished.

I think that the ATC guidebook committee really should reconsider the value of guidebooks.

TJ aka Teej
04-05-2003, 18:45
Originally posted by tlbj6142
After looking at the trail guide and having seen the companion and the handbook (I haven't seen the databook yet), I have to wonder why there is so much overlapped with the information in these books. Seems like all of it could be put into a single book per state/reigon.

The individual guides interact with the map sets, and are mostly for uses like yours, hiking a certain section. It's not practical for a thruhiker to carry/use the single state guide books, imo.
As for the history of why there's two trail guides:

The ATC has published an AT guidebook since the 80's starting with the Philosopher's Guide. The PG was originally an 'underground' effort, but expanded from bootleg to official status. For a few years the ATC employed Dan Bruce to produce their guide. He departed and the ATC continued to publish a trail guide with the aid of volunteers from ALDHA. (ALDHA is an organization dedicated to the welfare of the long distance hiking community.) The Thruhiker's Companion and the A.T. DataBook are ATC publications. Profits from these books go to the ATC. (The Appalachian Trail Conference is a volunteer-based nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation, management, and promotion of the Appalachian Trail.)
For some reason, Mr. Bruce sued the ATC.
The "Handbook" is produced by a one man business run by Mr. Bruce, calling it's self "The Center for AT Studies." Profits go to Mr. Bruce, the webmaster of "Trailplace.com" a commercial enterprise that asks for donations.
For several years the ATC has donated the DataBook's mileage figures to Mr. Bruce's company to be included in his book, an arrangement objected to by many ATC members.

TJ aka Teej
04-05-2003, 18:58
Originally posted by Peaks
I think that the ATC guidebook committee really should reconsider the value of guidebooks.

The state guides are published by the individual AT clubs, aren't they? I know the MATC is responsible for the Maine Guide.

Papa Bear
04-05-2003, 21:58
I consider the Guide Books "at home" references. I enjoy reading the background and historical material. They're on my hiking bookshelf and I'm glad to have them.

The Companion is more an "on-trail" resourse, but most people probably split it up and just carry pages for which ever scection they are in. It has the all important town information.

I take the Guide Book trail description pages (printed from my CD version of the books) and print the relavent Companion pages (printed from the On-line Companion) on the back. So I have a one page front and back summary of each trail section. All original books stay safe at home.

Obviously I'm a bit of an information hound, but I find I appreciate the trail much more when I know what's comming as well as historical background, and of course the town stop stuff from the Companion.

You could hike the whole trail with no maps or books (just follow those white blazes) but I enjoy it much more the way I do it.

Pb

tlbj6142
04-06-2003, 17:22
Wow that's quite a bit of at home work. But if I you were to do it in sections that would be a nice way to go.

Companion vs. Handbook.

I've seen quite a bit of the Companion (since it is "free" online), but I have only briefly looked at the handbook. I liked the town maps in the handbook, but given that most of these towns are quite small, I doubt they are really needed.

Any thoughts?

Papa Bear
04-06-2003, 22:09
The at-home preparation is not that bad. Yes I did sections, but long ones (10 days to 2 weeks) and did 5 of them last summer, so I was on trail almost half of the season.

If you just print out the Companion pages for a section (say Connecticut and Massachusetts) you get maybe 7 or 8 pages. Then I put the pages back in the printer (upside down) and print the trail descriptions, hopefully about the same amount.

Now I'm done. Most of the time is making sure the fronts of the pages are the same trail section as the back, but even if it's off by a page or two it hardly matters.

Now I've got say 8 pages for 150 miles. Light load indeed, and everything I need . Oh yeah - don't forget to bring the maps.

One thing - a real positive - is going to the trouble of doing this ahead of the hike familiarizes me with the material much more than If I just threw the book into my pack.

As for town maps, The Companion has them for some towns (like DWG or Hanover). but once looking at it briefly I hadly needed to worry about it further. Don't know if the Handbook maps are better, but as you say, they are only marginally useful anyway.


Pb

tlbj6142
04-06-2003, 22:30
I noticed that the trail guide I have (Southwest VA) mentions water that should be avoided (typically due to heavy farm drainage). Does the handbook, databook or companion give that kind of information?

Seem like it would be useful to know not to drink, even if you treat, certain streams.

chris
04-07-2003, 10:40
Nothing like that in the Companion from Springer to Damascus.

cburnett
05-02-2003, 12:55
If the trail conference book / map set are not purchased, where do you find maps to the trail? I have considered purchasing the National Geographic maps that corrolate to the AT. Any comments or suggestions to this idea?


the roman numerial four (IV)

chris
05-02-2003, 14:28
You can purchase the maps without the guides if you wish. Another possibility is to buy all the USGS quads for the entire trail, which will end up costing a lot more than the ATC maps in the end. You could lower the cost by using one of the custom map kiosks. Or, you could go to something like www.topozone.com and print out all the relevant quads. This would burn up a toner cartridge or two and a bunch of paper but will probably be cheaper than buying the ATC maps. Or, there are CDs with the maps on them, which you could buy and then print out. I think the Weasel has some info on this somewhere on this site. However, the simplest solution is just to buy the maps from the ATC. Skip the guidebooks and just pick up the Companion instead.

DebW
05-02-2003, 14:59
If you try to use USGS quads, you will find the trail in the wrong place in many, many places. It is relocated frequently, and the USGS maps are updated only every few decades (some may be 40 years old). The official ATC maps are definitely the best bet, though they may not really be updated often enough to keep up with every relo.

RagingHampster
05-06-2003, 09:04
I'm also in limbo on what to do. I have 11 months before my attempt, and I'm still looking. Originally I was looking for something similar to the GMC guide for the Long Trail. Apparently I'm told it doesn't exist. I did purchase the AT 2003 Data Book, but it lacks maps, and I'd like some more info on trail accomodations, etc.

tlbj6142
05-06-2003, 09:38
RH;

Have you seen the companion (http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm) yet? You can buy it from the ATC, or d/l sections of it from the above link.

It doesn't contain trail info (other than shelter names/water sites), but it does contain all of the town and accomodation info you could want.

I've heard the databook contains more info on water sites, is this true?

FWIW, I have the southern VA ATC "kit" that includes the official maps and the trail guide. I would keep the maps and just buy the companion. The trail guide is great if you want to read background info on sections. But for "finding your way" it is probably overkill ("At 0.4 miles you'll see a large rock. Make sure you don't run into it. At 1.3 miles you'll see bear scat, step over it.").

In short, if I were to leave today on a thru, I would d/l a copy of Jack's (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/articles/resupplybook.pdf) re-supply tips. Buy all of the ATC maps (no guides) and a copy of the companion. Not sure much else is needed.

RagingHampster
05-06-2003, 09:57
Cool thanks tlbj6142,

I decided to buy it rather than print-out a bajillion pieces of paper. Probably cheaper in the long run anyways :D

The data book seems to be quite similar to the companion, minus the maps, and great town info.

I'm getting it shipped Fed-EX!

Less than 11 months to go (LOL!)

tlbj6142
05-06-2003, 10:24
It is updated every year. So you might want to get next year's copy this coming winter. And just use the d/l version for planing.

RagingHampster
05-06-2003, 10:34
Im not worried. Ill just DL any changes made to this years and add it to the book.

Peaks
05-06-2003, 16:50
Originally posted by RagingHampster
I'm also in limbo on what to do. I have 11 months before my attempt, and I'm still looking. Originally I was looking for something similar to the GMC guide for the Long Trail. Apparently I'm told it doesn't exist. I did purchase the AT 2003 Data Book, but it lacks maps, and I'd like some more info on trail accomodations, etc.

Wait until December and buy the set of maps when ATC puts them on sale.

max patch
05-07-2003, 08:35
Originally posted by RagingHampster
I'm also in limbo on what to do. I have 11 months before my attempt, and I'm still looking. Originally I was looking for something similar to the GMC guide for the Long Trail. Apparently I'm told it doesn't exist. I did purchase the AT 2003 Data Book, but it lacks maps, and I'd like some more info on trail accomodations, etc.

I certainly think that the ATC Guidebooks are similar to the GMC Long Trail Guidebook. Why do you believe differently?

What I would take:

1. The Thru-Hikers Handbook. Better IMO than the Companion plus it also contains the ATC Databook info.

2. You need the maps. As Peaks suggested, wait til they go on sale. Price of the maps alone is $156. From Thanksgiving to Christmas Eve the maps AND the Guidebooks are on sale for $171 (last years prices). Even if you don't want the Guidebooks on the trail (some do, some don't) the "history lessons" are well worth the extra $15 for the set. And if you aren't interested in history then they are still worth having for future section hikes (they have great trailhead info).

RagingHampster
05-07-2003, 08:40
Thanks peaks, I bought the Companion (waiting for it now) & I have the Data Book. So long as the mini-maps in the companion show a reasonable amount of detail, I'll just use those. I use them more as a daily-planner rather than for "Emergencies".

RagingHampster
05-08-2003, 10:38
Damn-it. No mini-maps in the companion...

Ok, new plan.

Carry whole Data book, section specific cutouts of the companion, and I'll need the AT maps (carrying only the maps covering section being hikled).

All I need now is the maps...

tlbj6142
05-08-2003, 10:57
mini-maps? Do you mean of the trail? If so, (for those reading along) the companion does not contain maps of the trail, just towns.

tlbj6142
05-08-2003, 10:59
max patch;

What is it in particular you like/dislike about the Handbook vs. companion?

RagingHampster
05-08-2003, 11:26
Companion has excellent N>S organized descriptions of Shelters, Sidetrails, Towns, and Local Accommodations. The distance index tables are only shelter to shelter, and do not include road crossings, statelines, river/stream crossings, or summits. Some of these points you can extrapolate distances using descriptions in the section details, but others you have to guess. The data book is about 1/3" thick, and would be foolish to break-up. I would say its the most important thing you could carry.

Neither the Data Book or Companion include any maps whatsoever (companion has town maps with services highlighted). Thus if you want a visual representation of your progress and location you'll need the map set.

So like I said, the best system would be...

1. AT 2003 Data Book $5.95 (Carried Whole)
2. AT Thru-Hiker's Companion 2003 $11.95 (Carried in Sections)
3. Maps (Carried in Sections)

I've looked at the pricing, and the complete 14 state map set is $195, and comes with a detailed Maine Guidebook (good paper-weight for leaving at home). You can get the mapset with detailed books for all the states for $280. I'm going to wait and see if I can get just the maps on sale.

With this system you'll have a quick-reference mileage guide, info on shelters & towns (including town mini-maps), and detailed maps you can visually track progress with, or navigate if you were ever inclined. By going without the expensive section guidebooks, you'll drop history novels, and extremely detailed walkthroughs (landmarks down to the 0.2mi intervals). Not to mention the money you'll save.

Thats my view anyways :D

tlbj6142
05-08-2003, 11:49
RH;

What is in the data book that you value so much?

Happy
05-08-2003, 11:58
Hikers could start out with a system and change it when they reach NEAL'S GAP, well stocked with the above referenced books, etc. and you can mail home what you don't use along with any other gear you are not using.

RagingHampster
05-08-2003, 12:03
Like I said above, the $6 data book has more data points in the mileage indices. The only mileage indices in the companion are shelter to shelter ditances. The data book includes road crossings (to hitch into town), mountain summits (w/elevations), water sources (lakes/streams/brooks/springs), and shelters. Addresses for drops are also placed under towns that are in the indices. It's a quick reference guide you could keep in your pocket, aids daily planning, and is much more detailed/practical than the companion indices. It also comes in a 6" x 3.5" x 1/3" frame that weighs 3.75oz. The only thing I really like about the companion is town maps/accommodation info. The data book has all the important distance indices, and the maps give you a visual representation of the data book (and can save your ass if your lost, but what are the chances of that on the AT).

tlbj6142
05-08-2003, 12:18
RH;

Got it. I didn't quite read your emphasis on extra mileage points in the original message.

Funny, I wouldn't not have considered that information very useful. I figure the maps give you a good idea of distance between points, so why would you need them in text form as well? Maybe the data book lists more points of interest than what is shown on the maps?

Whatever, HYOH. Or is it Hakuna Matata? I get the two confused.

RagingHampster
05-08-2003, 12:29
Yeah, it's kind of like a merging of the maps and companion guide, de-fatted, and put into tables. Much quicker than pulling out maps and companion sections. I suppose you could transfer data points by writing them onto the maps themselves, this would actually be something I would consider doing!

On second thought, I think I will transfer the data points onto the maps!

Hey whadda-ya-know, packweight just dropped another 3.5oz :eek: :) :eek:

:banana :banana :banana

tlbj6142
05-08-2003, 14:28
At lunch I took at look at the 2003 data book (www.themapstore.com is only a mile from work).

Your right, it seems as though all they did was pull out some of the mileage info from the trail guides.

The southern VA ATC maps I have seem to do a great job of showing the information (springs, random trail crossings, even profile, etc.), so I still can't see why I'd need to know there is a spring exactly 4.3 miles from shelter Z. Or that FS666 intersection is 5 miles from a town.

Maybe some of the other state/section maps really suck. In which case, the mileage info might be all you have to help locate non-shelter PoI.

max patch
05-09-2003, 09:50
You asked me to compare The Thru-Hikers Handbook (Handbook) and the Thru-Hikers Companion (Companion).

First off, EITHER book will provide sufficient town information to support your hike. However, I believe the Handbook is preferable.

1. You NEED the A.T. Data Book on a thru-hike. The Handbook includes the Data Book; the Companion does not. Use the Companion and you will also have to buy and carry the Data Book.

2. The Handbook is used by more thru-hikers than the Companion. Historically, over the years the Handbook has been considered to be more accurate than the Companion.

3. The Companion, unless they have changed it, uses an annoying spiral binding.

4. The editor of the Handbook is a former multi-time thru-hiker and understands the needs of a thru-hiker. The volunteer editor of this years Companion is not a thru-hiker. This lack of experience is crucial...if you are not a thru-hiker then you really don't know what a thru-hiker needs and wants are. Its like writing a travel guide without actually visiting the city you are writing about. For example, the Companion this year threatened to omit Rainbow Springs from inclusion in the book. This would have been a horrible mistake; one that an experienced thru-hiker would not have made.

5. The editor of the Handbook contacts each hiker hostel annually and verifies information. The Companion relies on various field editors to update their section.

6. Each book receives updates and comments from users after they have completed their hike.

7. A valid complaint about the Handbook is that in recent years it has been published too late to benefit hikers. However, these problems appear to have been corrected; this year the Handbook was available before the Companion.

These are just my opinions. Like I said, either book will provide the information you need. I believe the Handbook is a better resource for the reasons mentioned above.

Blue Jay
05-09-2003, 10:27
Max I agree with most of your reasons but you left one out which might change someone's decision. One book supports a very worthy organization that more than any other single entity keeps the AT alive. The other goes to an individual (holding my tongue with both hand) who just uses the AT to make money.

RagingHampster
05-09-2003, 10:36
I will be transferring the data points in the data-book onto my maps. That eliminates the need for the data book.

I will be tranferring the important town info onto a standard 8.5 x 11" sheet. Of course I've also drawn info from other places (including here), and will include them on my edited town/trail accommodation sheets. I'll make good use of my scanner :).

As far as wingfoot and his book are concerned, I'll just shut my mouth before I start flaming :mad: :rolleyes:

tlbj6142
05-09-2003, 11:25
Originally posted by max patch
1. You NEED the A.T. Data Book on a thru-hike. The Handbook includes the Data Book; the Companion does not. Use the Companion and you will also have to buy and carry the Data Book.
Why do I NEED the data book? All it contains is mileage info. Do I really need to know that FS road 5489234 is 4.2345 miles from shelter Z? Or that there is a spring 3.243234 miles from US234 in PA?

Seems like the maps already contain this information (at least the southern VA maps do). Sure I don't know the exact milege between points, but it only takes a second to use the map's scale and your finger to estimate mileage. If you are off by a half a mile, or so, does that really mater when you are hiking 2100 miles?


3. The Companion, unless they have changed it, uses an annoying spiral binding.I kind of think the format is easier to hold than the trade book format used by the handbook. Besides, if you are going to cut it into pieces does it really mater?

I briefly (less than 10 minutes) looked at the 1998(?) handbook, the format was not well organized. The book was divided into 3 (?) sections each containing some information. Instead of interleaving the information in sequencial (NOBO or SOBO) order. Making tearing it into sections more difficult. But this may have changed in recent editions.

max patch
05-09-2003, 12:43
Originally posted by tlbj6142
Why do I NEED the data book? All it contains is mileage info. Do I really need to know that FS road 5489234 is 4.2345 miles from shelter Z? Or that there is a spring 3.243234 miles from US234 in PA?

There are a LOT of reasons why one NEEDS the data book. Virtually every known water source (in water scarce areas) are listed. Trust me, in August you WILL want to know where your water sources will be for the day. This information is NOT on the maps. Arrive at a shelter at 4:00 but you're not ready to stop for the day yet? Check the data book for alternative destinations and/or water supply information. Perhaps you are 5 days from your next town stop but you need something NOW. It happens. The data book lists what services are available at virtually every road crossing (i.e. P.O., G 3.6 mi E, C, M 1.2 mi W).

BTW, there are approximately 3,400 data points in the data book. No way can these be added to the maps.

tlbj6142
05-09-2003, 13:01
IOW, not all of the maps are as good as the southern VA maps?

Well that sucks. Looks like some one needs to update their maps, and then we can stop lugging around all of this unnecessary info.

TJ aka Teej
05-09-2003, 13:44
Originally posted by max patch
1. You NEED the A.T. Data Book on a thru-hike. The Handbook includes the Data Book; the Companion does not. Use the Companion and you will also have to buy and carry the Data Book.

2. The Handbook is used by more thru-hikers than the Companion. Historically, over the years the Handbook has been considered to be more accurate than the Companion.

3. The Companion, unless they have changed it, uses an annoying spiral binding.

4. The editor of the Handbook is a former multi-time thru-hiker and understands the needs of a thru-hiker. The volunteer editor of this years Companion is not a thru-hiker. This lack of experience is crucial...if you are not a thru-hiker then you really don't know what a thru-hiker needs and wants are. Its like writing a travel guide without actually visiting the city you are writing about. For example, the Companion this year threatened to omit Rainbow Springs from inclusion in the book. This would have been a horrible mistake; one that an experienced thru-hiker would not have made.

5. The editor of the Handbook contacts each hiker hostel annually and verifies information. The Companion relies on various field editors to update their section.


re 1. > This will be the last year Wingy gets the ATC's DataBook information for free. His copying the entire DataBook into his guide this year was the last straw for many ATC members. The DataBook is only about $5, buy the original and not the ripoff.
re 2. > These are claims made only by Wingy. Probably as true as the rest of his claims he makes about himself.
re 3. > The annoying spiral binding is the result of asking hikers what they want. It allows hikers to tear out the sections they want to carry.
re 4. > He claims 7 (or 6, or 10) thruhikes (know ANYONE who has met him on the trail during one?), the last in 1992. Just about everything about thruhiking has changed in the last 11 years. Half the services that were open are gone. Half the ones that are open he's never seen. He's never hiked with any of the gear today's hikers favor. Hundreds of miles of trail have been re-routed. Shelters have been removed and built, hostel ownerships changed, policies evolved. All of it missed by Wingy while he sat at his computer. He's writing a travel guide about places he's never been to. The Companion is compiled by volunteers who visit every service and hike every mile of their section every year.
re 5. > Wingy telephones. Companion volunteers visit and use the services they report on, often knowing the providers personally because they live near the section they write about.
----
ALDHA volunteers contribute to the Companion. ALDHA was asked by the ATC to produce their annual AT guidebook. ALDHA is made up of hundreds of thruhikers, section hikers, service providers, trail maintainers, Triple Crown hikers, AT volunteers, family members, future thruhikers, authors, and Trail club members. ALDHA holds the Gathering every year, where members of the AT community gather by the hundreds to celebrate the Trail community. Opening night ceremonies are wonderful, when each year's AT class is called out and the hikers all stand (and grin) to thunderous applause. This last year's was only the second that Earl Shaffer missed, he's hiking higher trails now. www.aldha.org
---
The Center for A.T. Studies produces the Handbook. The Center for A.T. Studies is one person and his computer, asking for donations solely on the merit of self authored praise.

TJ aka Teej
05-09-2003, 14:05
Originally posted by tlbj6142
IOW, not all of the maps are as good as the southern VA maps?

Well that sucks. Looks like some one needs to update their maps, and then we can stop lugging around all of this unnecessary info.

The Maine map set produced by the MATC are from 1996, and are in real need of updating. The format is wicked nice, I hope they keep it. It's my understanding that they won't update until they sell their back stock of maps and guides. You won't get really lost using them, but there's been a dozen major reroutes, there are new logging roads, some roads are listed that are now unused, the Katahdin section has changed dramatically, some side trails listed are now closed, and several new foot and skimobile trail are cut along or across it.
The guidebook has great trail history, but is dated. Whitehouse Landing in the 100 mile isn't mentioned, for instance.

tlbj6142
05-10-2003, 09:28
I guess this is expected. We can't expect the maps to be up-to-date every year given the number of changes, as well as the cost involved in printing.

Maybe I need to take a look at the data book more closely.

RagingHampster
05-10-2003, 13:57
BTW, there are approximately 3,400 data points in the data book. No way can these be added to the maps.Many of the data points do not need to be transferred, such as mountain summits, lakes, road crossings, etc. I will be tranferring shelter locations, and water locations. By carrying the corresponding sections of the companion, I will also have detailed information about each shelter (capacities, water sources), and towns (roads to use, mini-maps, accommodations).

You can also write in parenthesis the distances next to shelters, roads, summits, etc. A couple hours a day for 5 or 6 days will accomplish this, and make you even more accurate with your planning through studying the maps.

Does anyone know if the maps are updated yearly to reflect trail movemnets? If not, I'll have to do some editing :)

DebW
05-11-2003, 14:49
How about the mileages posted on signs along the trail? Often they disagree with the databook or giudebook. You know the databook is updated yearly, don't know about the signs.

RagingHampster
05-11-2003, 15:02
Damn it.
If the maps are not updated I won't even bother to buy them. I'll just take the data book w/companion cutouts. I'm not concerned about getting lost. I like maps for the visual progress perspective. Besides, think of the adventure! Lost in the 100mile wilderness! You'd make front cover of backpacker :D!

I'll call up the atc-store to see how often the maps are updated.

tlbj6142
05-11-2003, 21:41
RH;

True, you don't need to maps for most normal situations. But I think the oz (if that) of weight is worth it in case of emergencies.

I know the data book has trail crossings listed, but with a map you can find the best route much quicker.

Kerosene
05-12-2003, 08:28
Topographical trail maps provide you with an idea of how to access roads, civilization or water in an emergency. That said, they are rarely up to date.

A few years ago in northern Virginia I used my map to convince a young woman out for an afternoon Fall hike that she was going in the wrong direction. If I hadn't turned her around, she would have had a very cold night, since the next road crossing was over 15 miles away.

RagingHampster
05-12-2003, 11:09
Yeah but your rarely in a position where you can get a lay of the land to even make a map useful. Of course you can estimate location, pick a sane direction to travel, and head that direction. You can usually study a map for 2 minutes and determine which directions are good escape routes before entering the woods though.

If the maps don't have updated trail markings, I find little use for it, especially on the east coast.

Then again, everyone can HYOH, and if you feel safer with a map, than by all means grab'em :D

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I never learned anything talking :D

TJ aka Teej
05-12-2003, 13:37
One of the fun parts of guidebooks is when they talk about directions from the trail. For northbound hikers anything to the left is "west", anything to the right is called "east". Nearing Moxie Pond in Maine, the nobo hikes east to the pond then heads *south* for a bit, so after the pond (near the old Joe's Hole) to continue "north" the southwalking northbound hiker has has to follow a double blaze "west" by going east.

:banana

JackW
05-15-2003, 18:08
The other day I went to a familiar place to do some hiking. I had been there some 30-40 years ago and on occasion I have gone back but each time there were changes in the terrain due to nature. What was once a picnic area is now a field filled with trees. What was once a road that I drove over in my V W Bus is now a dry stream bed filled with rocks and crevices. What was once a meadow filled with snakes of all kinds is now a mowed lawn where the State of NJ provides a place for those who fly model airplanes to do it in style and in community with others.

I had a map which showed the hiking trails (color coded) and the dirt roads (or what had been) but there was no reference to the community outside of the Park. Then I ran into a fisherman who had been given a map by the local Ranger and the map showed houses and roads and the places where the dirt roads in the Park met the fire fighting entrances along a lake community.

All of this to say that it is good to have several maps along. One for the trail and a topo map for the surrounding area which might enable one to go to a hill or mountain nearby and see a view unseen by most. The side trips off of the AT are valuable even if they consume the time set aside for the Trek. Perhaps instead of heading into a town every 4 days a side trip could make the whole experience uniquely your hike.

I don't know if there is any literature which tells about the possible unique experiences available just to the right or left of the AT. If there is I would like to see it and add it to my library.

Heather
05-28-2003, 17:19
When was the last date the ATC updated the maps. Do they do it on a regular basis?

:banana

Heather
05-28-2003, 17:20
When was the last date the ATC updated the maps? Do they do it on a regular basis?

:banana

Kerosene
05-28-2003, 19:19
Different trail clubs maintain different portions of the AT and are responsible for updating guidebooks and maps. Maps and guidebooks are not updated on any particular schedule or order, it being more a function of how much the trail route has changed, whether the trail club has the funds to publish the update and the someone with the time and energy to get things updated. I've found that most guidebooks have been updated within the last 5 years, and hopefully the maps were updated at the same time.

Blue Jay
05-29-2003, 08:25
Yes the maps are sometimes updated, but the profiles are not. Many of them are completely wrong. Do not look at them, they turn you to stone.

tlbj6142
05-29-2003, 09:03
Funny that the profiles are out of date. All you need to do is enter a few waypoints into any cheap-o mapping software and you can get the profile in seconds.

Seems like it would take maybe 30 minutes to get a correct profile.

Lazy clubs.

Heather
05-29-2003, 09:20
Well, that bites.

I just bought them.

If anyone sees me on the trail, please dust me off and wipe the bird poop off my head.

Thank you,
Heather

Blue Jay
05-29-2003, 10:36
Wait a minute Heather. Maps GOOD, profile BAD. Even if the profile was correct it would be a good idea not to look at that part of the map. It ruins your day from the start. The maps are very good to have if for no other reason than in for emergencies or to just circle where you camped for memories. There is an amazing feeling each time you hike through another map. There is no bird poop on your head.