Hartford Advocate (CT) article on a thru-hike By Emily Weil [Archive]

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refreeman

08-25-2006, 22:16

"A Hike Of Her Own"

http://www.ctnow.com/images/standard/blackpix.gif Sex And Stalking Along The Appalachian Trail.
August 24, 2006
By Emily Weil
http://www.ctnow.com/custom/nmm/hartfordadvocate/hce-hta-0824-ht35coverhiketrail35.artaug24,0,5315173.story?coll =hce-headlines-ha-advocate

When you get out there, tell everyone that you have a boyfriend and that he is going to meet up with you,” my friend Micah advised me one frigid day in late February, a week before I flew from Boston to Georgia to begin thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail. He had done the 2,200-mile trek the year before and was offering me tips on everything from what food to eat to the kind of tent to carry.

I wasn’t listening. I was busy trying to make a stove out of aluminum beer cans that wouldn’t explode in my face or burn down the forest.

Three months later, having hiked 1,500 miles and with 700 left to go, I was back in Micah’s Boston apartment. “I can’t get rid of this guy.”

Micah nodded. He knew exactly what I was talking about. “I remember feeling bad for the women out there,” he said.

It’s a cliché among hikers that there are as many ways to hike the trail as there are people who hike it. Most start at Springer Mountain in Georgia and end at Katahdin in Maine; a few start in Maine and head south. Purists walk every 2,167.1 miles of the trail marked by white rectangular blazes painted on the trees. Blue blazers take short cuts on side trails marked with blue. Yellow blazers hitchhike ahead along roads. And then there are the pink blazers. Pink blazers pursue women.

The point of pink blazing is ambiguous, even among hikers. Is it to sleep with the woman? To harass her? To help her? In a male-dominant culture, sometimes the men — like the women — just want a female vibe. Not all pink blazers are aggressive or chauvinistic. And some women find the attention flattering, or welcome the sense of safety that comes from knowing that men are paying attention to their whereabouts. The problem with pink blazing, however, is that on the closed system of a linear trail, if a woman doesn’t want the attention, she has no escape.

A day earlier, I had called my mother from a pay phone in Arden, N.Y. She knew that something was wrong even before I explained.

I started to sob. It was the first time I had cried since the trip began. In the past three months, I had forded rib-high rivers, shivered — close to hypothermia — through snow- and hailstorms, gone without food and water, hitchhiked, and camped alone. I’d picked countless gnats out of my eyes, walked through lightning storms on exposed ridges, and carefully negotiated encounters with wild animals and peculiar mountain people. I was, I thought, tough.

The next morning, my parents picked me up at the motel in upstate New York where I had stayed the night. For five days, I rested and talked things over with my family and friends. Finally, I regained enough perspective to return to the trail. Besides, I hadn’t told Uncle John — that was his trail name — when I would return. If I planned things right, he wouldn’t be able to find me again. I could finish my hike.

I never imagined it would come to this. Back in early March, less than a week into the trip, I was sitting around a campfire with 10 men on top of Tray Mountain in Georgia. Eight more people were crammed into the shelter, either sleeping or cooking dinner from the warmth of their sleeping bags. It was so cold that there were no other options; it was fire, goose down, or freeze. We woke up to a foot of snow and frozen boots the next morning. Three people quit at the next road crossing.

As I nudged into the ring of people surrounding the fire, a man who went by the trail name Stix spoke up. Stix was a 40-year-old former cocaine addict from Texas who had failed two previous attempts to thru-hike. “They say that men get skinny out here,” he said. “Well, I ain’t got much to lose.” He looked at me from across the fire and laughed. “But women just get thick. Why, Déjà Vu, honey, you got nothing to worry about. You’re already thick.”

The men looked at me. I stared into the fire, embarrassed, hurt, and unsure of what to say. Finally, Easy Rider, a 24-year-old Yale-bound graduate student, broke the silence.

“Stix, that was out of line,” he said. Turning to me, he added, “Déjà, I think you’re sexy. If you were the last woman on earth, I would sleep with you. Actually, if you even make it to Pennsylvania, I’m gonna poke you.”

Disgust took my breath away. I turned from the circle and walked to my tent. Just before I was out of earshot, I heard another man say, “Naw, they don’t get thick so much as they get mean. The guys get skinny and the girls get mean.”

Inside my tent, I tried to sleep, but I could only think about how I was going to deal with this humiliation all the way to Maine. At that point, I couldn’t have known that neither Stix nor Easy Rider would make it. I didn’t know that I would out-hike every man there. I only knew that I wanted to go home.

Most people who quit thru-hiking leave the trail because it isn’t what they thought it would be. If you plan a six-month hike from the comfort of your living room, it’s hard to imagine the pain of easing frozen socks over infected blisters and the sheer misery of spending the night in a wet sleeping bag. Most of all, people underestimate the monotony of walking through the woods every single day for five or six months.

I had anticipated the physical challenges and I knew that I could handle them. And from previous hikes, I knew that I would never get sick of the woods. I had wanted to thru-hike for 10 years, since I’d first heard about the trail when I was 13. Before I ever set foot on the trail, I was sure that I was going all the way. The woods are where I feel happy and at home.

But I had, it seemed, completely mistaken the character of the people with whom I would share my hike. I thought that I would be among “my people,” like the exiled Duke and his subjects in As You Like It . Instead, the Appalachian Trail felt like a fraternity, where a man could be a man and the girls are left at home. There were, it seemed, no minorities or homosexuals, and very few women on the trail. I had expected progressive open minds and good karma. Instead, what I found was the status quo. Actually, it felt like the status quo might have been 50 years ago.

I wondered for the first time if I would quit.

The whole next day, I thought about what Stix and Easy Rider had said, and how not even one of the other men had had the balls to defend me. In fact, I thought about it for five days straight. John Milton once wrote, “The mind is its own place and in itself can make a heav’n of hell, a hell of heav’n.” This is especially true on the trail, where the traditional anesthetics are not available. There is no TV, no internet, nothing to buy. There is nothing to do but walk and think. Time in the woods can be therapeutic, putting mind and body in order. Each day is simple and repetitive—get up, eat, walk 15 to 30 miles, eat, make camp, eat, go to sleep. The challenges are straightforward. You don’t have to find a meaningful job; you just have to get across the river alive. You make daily progress towards a tangible goal.

A week later, in the Smoky Mountains, I caught up to a lanky woman with a shaved head and a tattoo on her neck. She offered me part of the Pop Tart she was devouring, and then leaned close and whispered as if the trees could hear, “If you see Snafu, don’t tell him I’m back here. I can’t shake him. I took two days off in Gatlinburg, but he waited for me. I hear he’s been hiking five-mile days so that I’ll catch up.”

The beauty of the Appalachian Trail is that it’s not really a wilderness experience; it’s a mobile community. Like in a small town, gossip and information flow up and down the trail each time hikers meet. Everyone summits the same mountains, poops in the same privies, and hitchhikes into the same trail towns to stay in the same hostels and cheap motels. If there is someone suspicious lurking at a shelter, everyone knows about it. If someone gets hurt or sick, there will be another hiker catching up within a day or two, and probably much sooner.

The disadvantage is that there is no anonymity. If someone wants to find you, he can. If he wants to wait for you at a shelter, he will. It is public land and you cannot make someone leave you alone. More than a few women have found themselves in the absurd position of hiding behind a rock or off the trail until their pink blazer hiked past. Hiding is, of course, only a temporary solution. The only real escape is to quit.

I met Uncle John in Waynesboro, Va., right before heading into Shenandoah National Park. I had just summited “The Priest,” a relentless 3,000-foot elevation gain at the end of a 25-mile day. I felt radiant and excited to see other hikers in town, with whom I could swap stories and close down the local dive bar. By this point — 800 miles in — I wasn’t crawling away to my tent at the end of the day. I knew that I could hang.

I set up my tent at the YMCA athletic fields and went to a nearby hotel where I’d heard that other hikers were staying. I walked into a room of 11 men. I caught sight of myself in the mirror. I was slender and strong. My cheeks were pink; my skin was brown. Most of the men, by comparison, looked tired and skinny.

“**** ‘em,” I thought. “These guys got nothing on me.”

I knew them all, except one—Uncle John. “I’m Déjà Vu,” I said, introducing myself.

“I know,” he said, smiling.

I demolished the pizza, chicken wings and ice cream that the guys hadn’t finished, and then went to the bar with five of them, including Riff, who had hiked the AT more than seven times in a continual back and forth “yo-yo.” He always hiked with a tired black lab named Josie, whom many men said was the only good woman on the trail. The trail was Riff’s home; he thought he knew it better than anyone, and many of the young men looked to him as a guru.

At the bar, the conversation turned to the “Shannies,” or the Shenandoah Mountains, just north of Waynesboro. For 100 miles the trail runs through the park and crosses the Blue Ridge Parkway more than 20 times. Hikers love the Shannies because there are grocery stores, restaurants and bars right along the trail. But for me, it was also a little scary. When I was hiking at high elevation, I didn’t worry about my safety. Who was going to follow me up a 6,000-foot mountain? But being so close to the road made me nervous. Historically, most crimes along the AT take place near roads. Since 1986, 12 people have been killed in the Shenandoahs. In 1996, two women — Julie Williams and Lollie Winans — were stabbed to death near Little Stony Man lookout, just off the trail.

We all listened like obedient little children as Riff said, “Those two women were at the bar, drinking and dancing, and probably drawing a lot of attention to themselves.” He looked at me. “At the end of the night that guy just followed them right back into the woods where they were camping and slit their throats. Easy as pie.”

When the bar closed, I sprinted back to my tent at the YMCA. At six the next morning, I thumbed a ride back to the trail. I was eager to get to the far side of the Shannies.

A few days later, I was taking a break with Ibby — who caught up to me a little north of Waynesboro — when Uncle John showed up. Ibby hiked on while Uncle John and I had lunch in a parking lot. I was relieved to get rid of Ibby. He was a 35-year-old condominium broker who complained about day hikers, rain, food and talked incessantly about “getting her [the trail] done.” He was miserable and made me dislike hiking, too.

As Uncle John and I talked, I learned that he was a Deadhead from Boise who hated Wal-Mart and once got fired from a delivery job for refusing to cut off his beard. I liked him immediately.

We hiked together for the rest of the day and camped illegally at a tourist picnic area. Two days later, we were watching the sunset at Little Stony Man lookout. The day was beautiful; the spot was romantic. He leaned over and kissed me. And then it went further.

Later, after we cooked our dinners and lay in our sleeping bags under the stars, he said, “We’re going to have a great trip to Maine.”

I was too shocked to speak. We were going to Maine together? When did I agree to that? My hike was suddenly not my hike anymore. It was our hike. Thru-hikers are notoriously self-absorbed, and I was no exception. My hike was about me, not about us.

The next morning, as we stuffed our sleeping bags in their sacks, I set him straight: “John, I need to talk to you about something. I’m not going to Maine with you. I do my own thing out here.”

He smiled, indulgently it seemed, at my cute resistance. He left his sleeping bag on the ground and walked over to me. He put both hands on my shoulders and leaned down so that he was looking right into my eyes. “Listen,” he said, “I know you’re independent, but all relationships take compromise.” He added, “You’re my girl. I love you,” and — as if that were all the explanation I needed — he walked back to his sleeping bag and finished stuffing it in the sack.

My head spun. “Isn’t he supposed to ask me how I feel about this?” I thought. Or have I just been on my own so long that I’ve become obstinate and difficult? I saw that he was packed and leaning on his trekking poles, waiting for me. My sleeping bag still hung limply from my hands.

“John,” I said, “I’m not your girl. I’m not anyone’s girl. I came out here to hike my hike.”

He couldn’t believe what he was hearing. “You’re ditching me. How can I hike like this?”

“I’m sorry. My hike comes first.”

John started to cry. He seemed ridiculous and melodramatic. Had I become this cold? I wanted to tell him I was sorry, if only to make myself feel better. But I held my ground.

He looked at me angrily, wiping tears away with the back of his hand. “Easy Rider said that this is your thing. You’re sleeping your way up the trail.”

Before I could respond, he hoisted his pack on his back, grabbed his trekking poles and stormed away.

I sat at the camp site for a half-hour, letting Uncle John get a lead on me. In the meantime, a couple passed—the man in the lead, the woman struggling a little to keep up.

I walked 29 miles through flat Virginia forest, skipping a resupply stop, and in the evening overtook the couple that had passed me that morning. I hiked with them for the last few miles of the day, and decided to stick with them for the night. I didn’t want to be alone.

We arrived at a packed, all-male shelter. The vibe was hostile. Uncle John was in a corner chain smoking and snorting OxyContin. Nobody said hello to me. I could tell they had been talking. When I had a moment to talk to him alone the next day, I said, “I feel horrible.”

“You should. Do you have any idea how many guys you’ve hurt out here? Easy Rider almost dropped off the trail. Ibby just hitchhiked north 100 miles just so that he won’t have to see you again. You can’t mess with people’s trips like that. People plan their thru-hikes for years. It just ain’t right.”

Easy Rider — the same Yale-bound guy who “defended” me on Tray Mountain — was a hotrod. He hiked 25 to 30 miles a day and, after taking a week off for a frathouse reunion, had reappeared on the trail in southern Virginia. He immediately slowed down to my 20-mile-a-day pace. I knew Easy Rider was pink blazing me and I couldn’t shake him. When I decided to take an afternoon off and doze in the sun, he took the afternoon off, too. When I went into town for ice cream, he went, too. So, finally, I hiked with him because he was there. I shared some whiskey with him because he was there. I camped with him one night because he was there. When he invited me to sleep in his tent, I thought, “Why not? He’s here and he’s easy.”

I used other guys to ditch Easy Rider in the same way that I used Uncle John to ditch Ibby. In fact, the only effective way to ditch a pink blazer was to cozy up to someone else. I was oblivious to men’s feelings — in the same spirit of disrespect that they had shown me since Tray Mountain — but I wasn’t looking to ruin anyone’s hike. I just didn’t care.

“Riff is right about the girls out here,” Uncle John said. “You’re all dykes or whores.”

There were no other women around except for an 18-year-old section hiker who let men get water for her. Suddenly, I wanted validation and approval.

“Why don’t we hike together a little?” I ventured.

“You gotta understand I can’t be playing games out here,” he said as if he had anticipated me. He was the victim and I, the repentant sinner. I was asking for forgiveness and he accepted.

“If you screw me over again, I’ll have to drop off the trail and go home a failure,” he said intensely.

And so we hiked. But it was soon clear to me that I had made a big mistake. For several days, we walked at his pace, stopping when he wanted to stop, going when he wanted to go. I hiked slower than I wanted, spent a lot of time in town, and spent more money than I had budgeted. I suspected he lounged around town and drank until he couldn’t stand up because he knew I wanted to be on the trail. He was testing my loyalty. I was hiking his hike.

I quickly became frustrated at how people treated me when I was with John. I had proved myself, only to be undermined. One day at a shelter, a hiker told me that it was a good thing I had my boyfriend along so that he could take care of me. People constantly remarked that I was slowing him down. Never mind that I was the stronger hiker; never mind that I preferred to stay out of town; never mind that I didn’t complain about bugs and heat rash and eating bagels and peanut butter again. He got the glory. I had the supporting role. I felt like an accessory, and Uncle John could not understand why that made me angry.

Each time I told him that we weren’t hiking together any more, he accused me of not trying hard enough. “I have worked so hard and you — you give nothing. It’s like you don’t want to make this relationship work.”

And he was right. I didn’t want to make it work. I wanted to hike to Maine.

All through Pennsylvania, if I hiked away, he caught up. If I slowed down, so did he. If I hid in the woods for him to pass, he questioned everyone he saw, asking for my whereabouts.

Some days Uncle John and I hiked only three or four miles because we spent so much time “talking things out.” This usually involved me trying to ditch him, and him finding me and telling me that he loved me, but that I’d hurt him very badly. If I defended myself, we were apt to stay there all day. So finally, I learned to say, “You’re right. I’m sorry I hurt you. Can I please just hike alone for a little while?” But I couldn’t believe what I was saying. I hated having him around. I hated knowing that he was anywhere near me on the trail. I felt controlled and powerless and there was no one there to help me. For the second time during the trip, I doubted I would make it to Maine.

Just over the border in New York, I broke down in hysterics, hitchhiked to a pay phone and called my family.

During the week I spent at home, my mother said to me, “You know, you don’t have to go back if you don’t want to. The trail will always be there.”

She didn’t understand. In early April, I met an old man who had thru-hiked 15 years ago. With tears streaming down his face, he told me, “The moment you summit Katahdin, I want you to think of me. I am 77 years old and hiking that trail is the best thing I’ve ever done.”

Despite everything — the physical pain, the loneliness, the pink blazing — I, like most thru-hikers, love the trail. It becomes like a second family to some; for others it is an addiction. Year after year, people work as waiters and ski instructors so that, come spring, they can hit the trail again. Many say the hardest part about the trail is leaving it and returning to a world of sitting still, clocks and stuffy air. Summiting Katahdin, despite the initial joy, feels like getting divorced, fired and evicted on the same day.

I told my mother that there was no way a man was going to keep me from Katahdin. I had been dreaming about a thru-hike for 10 years. Now was my time. I needed to finish.

I surreptitiously returned to where I left off in New York, and spent a few wonderful weeks hiking and camping alone. However, I also felt like a woman on the run. If I met other hikers, I didn’t tell them my trail name. I stopped signing the shelter registers intended to help locate people in case of emergencies or danger. I camped far off the trail and avoided popular hostels. There was no drama. Thru-hiking was about the trail — the animals I saw, the swimming holes I jumped in, and the stars I slept beneath.

By New England, though, I was exhausted. In Vermont, I was treated for Lyme disease, and shortly after I was back in the woods, I developed an allergic reaction to the medicine. The person behind me on the trail was Uncle John. He took me to the emergency room, and stayed with me while I recovered. Once I was well, my hike became a game of dodging him. His became a game of finding me.

By the time I crossed the border into Maine — the 14th and final state — I was tired of games. Maine is 300 miles of the most beautiful, remote and difficult section of the trail. I would never be here again, 23 years old, having hiked 1,900 miles, at the end of a six-month journey.

In Andover, I told Uncle John to **** off and that I hated him. I wasn’t going to talk anything out. I was done feeling guilty. I told everyone I met that he was harassing me. I didn’t see him again.

This was not the end of my trouble with men. Ironically, or maybe just sadly, Uncle John and the others — and learning how to deal with them — may have kept me safe.

As I was hiking out of Andover, 250 miles south of Katahdin, I met a southbound hiker named Stowaway. I had a brief conversation with him and then continued north while he continued south. Five days later, after three days of hurricane-induced rain, I entered the Hundred Mile Wilderness, the final stretch marked by copious rivers and no road crossings. I forded two rivers and made another small crossing, where I met Stowaway again.

“We’ve met before,” I said. “What are you doing north of where I saw you last?”

“I’ve been, uh, trying to figure some things out,” he replied.

“Like which way the trail goes?”

I saw that his hands were shaking. He told me that the next ford — Long Pond — would be very difficult, but that there was an easier place to cross upstream.

I thanked him and watched him walk south on the trail before I continued north to Long Pond Stream. I arrived and crossed the first leg of the stream to an island in the middle. I looked across to the next shore. Where there were rocks, the rapids were noisy, fast and white. But the dangerous part was where the water was smooth. There was no way to tell how deep it was, and no guarantee that there would be rocks to brace my body against the current. I stuck a trekking pole in the water. It didn’t hit bottom and the current almost pulled me in. It was an impossible ford.

I returned to the south bank, dropped my pack, and decided to look for the safer crossing that Stowaway had mentioned. I began to walk into the woods, but then returned to my pack, grabbed my pepper spray and knife and clipped them both to the back of my shorts.

I walked upstream and saw that I couldn’t safely cross there, either. I decided to camp on the south bank and cross in the morning. But when I got back to where I had dropped my pack, Stowaway was standing next to it.

“What are you doing here?” I asked impatiently. “Jesus Christ, I’m sick of this ****.”

He looked surprised. “After you left, I got worried that you would try to ford by yourself. I came back to help you.”

At first, I was more offended than scared. “Listen, I just walked 2,000 miles. I can decide for myself whether it’s safe to cross. Why don’t you worry about getting yourself out of Maine?”

He walked towards me. I backed away.

“I’m sorry,” he said. “I can see that I’m making you uncomfortable. Let me explain. I have obsessive-compulsive disorder,” he confessed. “Do you know what that is?”

I thought of the other hikers I knew. “Yeah, I know what OCD is, and I don’t have any patience for it.”

“Well then,” he said, taking a deep breath, “you know that some people obsessively wash their hands. What I do is obsessively worry about people hurting themselves. You have to understand that I can’t control my behavior.”

“Listen,” I replied, “I’m really sorry that you can’t control yourself, but you have to understand that I am a woman alone in the woods. I don’t know who you are and I don’t trust you. I’ve been out here for five and a half months and you’re not the first ****ing weirdo that I’ve met. If you come any closer, I will defend myself. I will ****ing kill you.” As I said this, I felt a surge of power, confident that I could utterly destroy this man. I added, “Save your disorder for the women down in Georgia. They’re nicer.”

Stowaway was shaking uncontrollably now. He grew apologetic and said, “What can I do to set you at ease? Let me tell you about myself…”

I interrupted him. “There’s nothing you can do to set me at ease. Don’t even try. I’m ill at ease for a reason. There are four people behind us. We’re gonna stand right here and wait for them.”

Stowaway looked up at the sky and then down at his watch. “It’s getting pretty late. I think that they’ll probably be staying at the last shelter.”

I panicked, realizing that he was right. I wasn’t even certain that the four had left town that day, and if they had, it wasn’t likely they’d be coming this far.

“Come on,” Stowaway said. “How about if I help you cross the river? That way you’ll have it between us. There’s a shelter on the other shore.”

He took out a large coil of rope.

“What’s the rope for?” I asked. No bona fide thru-hiker carried that kind of heavy rope.

He looked down at it. “It’s to string a guideline across the river.”

I looked from the rope to his eyes, and said, “I’m not going into the woods with you. We’re gonna hike south until we find people I know, even if that means walking all the way to town. Move away from my pack.”

Keeping an eye on him, I hoisted my pack and motioned for him to take the lead on the trail. After a few minutes, he tried to talk to me. I told him to shut up and hike faster.

After several miles, which included re-fording two rivers, we met two thru-hikers. They were bewildered to see me hiking south with a man they didn’t know, and sobbing with relief at the sight of them. Stowaway tried to explain what had happened, but was unable to articulate. He turned to me apologetically.

As he stood there, with a broken sort of look on his face, I felt a brief surge of empathy. Maybe he wasn’t a serial rapist; maybe he was just trying to help me out. Unfortunately, I didn’t know.

Before he turned and walked away, Stowaway said that he planned to quit his hike and go home.

One of the thru-hikers raised his eyebrows. “Geez, Déjà. Way to drive a man off the trail.”

A week later, on day 172, I stood on top of Katahdin, the northern terminus of the AT in Maine. I was the first hiker of the day and as I reached the top, I folded myself over the famous sign and sobbed. I couldn’t believe I actually made it.

Years ago, when I first learned that there are people who hike 2,200 miles on the Appalachian Trail, I was awed by how difficult it would be. But the truth is, after a few weeks on the trail, your body adjusts, you settle into a rhythm, and it isn’t terribly hard. It is certainly easier than going to work every day. For me, a six-month vacation in the woods wasn’t the real victory.

And while other thru-hikers often say that the kindness of strangers reaffirms their faith in humanity, the time to reflect makes them change their life goals, and the personal accomplishment makes them believe that they can do anything they set their minds to, my epiphanies were different. In the end, the cliché about female thru-hikers is true of me, too: I don’t believe in humanity anymore than I did before. I just got mean. ●

Emily Weil is a travel writer and environmental journalist. She has written for Backpacker, Transitions Abroad, E/The Environmental Magazine and other publications. She is also the backwoods correspondent for www.eco-chicik.com (http://www.eco-chicik.com/)

Jack Tarlin

08-25-2006, 22:30

Geez, as well as being way too long, it's sensationalistic nonsense.

Also, to be perfectly frank, some of the episodes she describes seem exaggerated, if not invented.

I think the article is ridiculous, in terms of greatly over-emphasizing the "threat" to women on the Trail, and I think the paper performed a dis-service by printing it.

While I'm sure many women would report episodes of harassment, or of hikers paying them too much attention, what the author describes here seems a bit over the top.

It would appear that the Hartford Courant must have had a slow news day.

eric_plano

08-26-2006, 00:02

I think that would be more than enough to scare anyone who had never been on the trail. :(

Kerosene

08-26-2006, 00:19

She writes well, but I find it a little hard to believe that she had a string of that much trouble on a hike. Something doesn't feel quite right in that her experience doesn't appear to be shared by other young female thru-hikers, at least to this extent. It's too bad, really.

One for the fact checkers: "I had just summited “The Priest,” a relentless 3,000-foot elevation gain at the end of a 25-mile day." -- It's only relentless if you're climbing it from the south.

Lilred

08-26-2006, 00:30

Good Grief, she sleeps with several men then gets bent out of shape when they want to stick around her. Sounds like a major ego problem to me. "I'm 23 and my hike may be ruined cause men won't leave me alone." Oh, give me a break. Seems to me she brought it on herself.
At least I know I won't have that problem. I guess there are advantages to being old, fat and ugly.

SGT Rock

08-26-2006, 00:45

Hell now I am scared :eek:

Scott3

08-26-2006, 01:17

To be fair, Jack, this was printed in the Hartford Advocate. They have no idea what any news day is like.

Darwin again

08-26-2006, 02:22

Alternate headline: The Fear-Driven Hike, or How I Failed to Understand Human Nature and Stunk Up My Life on the AT

She writes: "... When I had a moment to talk to him alone the next day, I said, “I feel horrible.”
"“You should. Do you have any idea how many guys you’ve hurt out here? Easy Rider almost dropped off the trail. Ibby just hitchhiked north 100 miles just so that he won’t have to see you again. You can’t mess with people’s trips like that. People plan their thru-hikes for years. It just ain’t right.”"
...and...
"... So, finally, I hiked with him because he was there. I shared some whiskey with him because he was there. I camped with him one night because he was there. When he invited me to sleep in his tent, I thought, “Why not? He’s here and he’s easy.”"
...and...
"I used other guys to ditch Easy Rider in the same way that I used Uncle John to ditch Ibby. In fact, the only effective way to ditch a pink blazer was to cozy up to someone else. I was oblivious to men’s feelings — in the same spirit of disrespect that they had shown me since Tray Mountain — but I wasn’t looking to ruin anyone’s hike. I just didn’t care."

Any person -- male or female -- as inconsiderate as she was is just cultivating trouble of all sorts, on the trail or off. I'm not surprised the animosity she created in others mutated and came back to afflict her as fear. Sounds like she has trouble picking trustworthy, reliable companions and when the ones she does pick turn out to be cads, especially after she screws them over, she gets all rubbery, which she responds to with fear and then anger and then getting "mean." Sounds like she victimized herself. I met lots of women hiking the Trail who didn't have this universe of troubles.

Sorry if I seem a little critical, but it seems like what went around, came around for Deja Vu. Is she whining about being a victim of her own choices and behavior? Seems like it. I think I dated a 20-something girl like her once...:rolleyes:

The last nobo 3,000-foot sustained climb before Waynesboro is the Three Ridges, not the Priest. And she says she had forded rib-deep streams before getting to Arden, N.Y.? Are there any rib-deep fords before Arden on the AT? If so, I've never found them.

I don't expect useful news in any form of mainstream media any more. This dreck just reinforces my expectations.:o

SGT Rock

08-26-2006, 02:50

Was this hike this year or last year? Seems like I heard about some girl in 2005 that was jumping from hiker to hiker all the way up the trail making some guys insane. Of course that could have been just gossip. Who knows...

Anyway, I often wonder when I hear things like this what the other side of the story is. I imagine that there is more to each of these events than she sets out, often in a relationship of any kind this is true. Yet she decided to make them all out as psycho stalkers out to "pink blaze her". But a word of wisdom I remember: "If you have been married nine times, maybe it's you"

But I guess since she is a writer she gets to be the only POV. As weary said in another thread, don't get in an argument with people that buy ink by the barrel. Seems she will get the last word in on all of 'em.

bfitz

08-26-2006, 03:19

Hey fellas, have you heard the news?
You know that Déjà vu’s back on the trail?
It won’t take long just watch and see
The pink-blazin' fools on her tail.
Her style is new but the face is the same
As it was so long ago,
But from her eyes, a diffrent smile
Like that of one who knows.
Well, its been ten days and maybe more
Since I read in the register about you;
The best weeks of my hike gone by,
Here I am alone and blue.
Some people cry and some people die
By the wicked ways of love;
But Ill just keep on hikin’ along
With the grace of the lord above.
People talkin’ all around bout the way you leave guys flat,
I don’t care what the registers say, I know where their jive is at.
One thing I do have on my mind, if you can clarify please do,
Its the way you jump in another guy’s tent when I try to say hello to you!
I try to make love, but it ain’t no use.
Give it to me, give it!

Hiked so hard I couldn’t unwind,
Thirty miles today;
Abuse my love a thousand times,
Gonna quit the trail today.
Heartbreaker, your time has come,
Cant take your evil way;
Go away,
Heartbreaker.
Heartbreaker!

gsingjane

08-26-2006, 09:11

SGT Rock

08-26-2006, 09:40

It could be true gsingjane. Never said it wasn't. But it seems odd that there are lots of women that post here with positive experiences about their hike yet one person describes it as a stalker fest.

If a guy talked about all the tail he got on the trail and how they all turned into insane stalkers he would be taken issue with. Think about it.

It always takes two. And if she started having issues, then she had the option to quit getting into relationships with guys on the trail. Seems like she had one with Ibby but never gets into it, then Uncle Johnny who she hung out with for a while, then one with Easy Rider, and then says she used other guys to get rid of each previous one. She even went on to have a relationship with Easy Rider who made the comment about poking her even after she said it disgusted her. If she had a problem with one relationship, how did having another, then another, then another seem a solution. Seems like that was a symptom of the problem. And before you say it, I would think a guy doing the same thing then complaining about the girls he ditched probably was responsible for everything he created.

There are two sides to every story. I imagine some of the guys in this story are not happy either with the portrayal of them all as imbalance losers. Seems some jumped to get away from her even by her own account. Wouldn't you agree?

Lone Wolf

08-26-2006, 09:54

This broad has issues.

generoll

08-26-2006, 10:02

reminds me of two sister that i met on my section hike this Spring. a guy came to the shelter after we'd all settled in and were cooking supper over the fire and immediately sat next to them. he was asking them to fix his supper and just in general acting like they were all together. when he stepped away for a moment i asked them if he was with them. they kind of got a rueful smile on their face and said, "he thinks we are".

he wasn't energetic enough to get up in time to leave with them the next day and apparently stayed in the shelter to avoid the rain, but i had a certain degree of sympathy for them having to deal with guys that try to hook up on the trail and don't seem to get the message. like the writer said, there's really no way to get away from these guys short of leaving the trail.

Deja Vu may have acted somewhat unwisely, but let's be honest guys. How many of you have ever slept with a woman who meant absolutely nothing to you. Ever slip out of the house early in the morning to avoid the post coital discussion? So the boot got put on the other foot. She might want to be a little more prudent in the manner in which she scratches her itches, especially in places where the veneer of civilization gets worn a bit thin, but the guys were in the wrong assuming 'ownership' where none existed.

this probably ought to be required reading for anyone heading out on the trail. read between the lines and there's plenty of fodder for how not to act on the trail.

SGT Rock

08-26-2006, 10:12

Exactly generoll. Two to tango. In this case we only got one side of them all.

The guys screwed up to. Especially if they knew ahead of time she has been going from guy to guy. And especially if they thought someone like that had any interest in any long term relationship.

map man

08-26-2006, 10:34

There's a certain percentage of the male population out there, in our culture in general and on the trail. This kind of guy, if he comes across a woman (particularly one he deems "attractive") who refuses to strike up a relationship with any guys on the trail, he will call a frigid *****. If she does strike up a relationship he will call her a sl**. If you are in a certain female demographic it is impossible to win with this guy.

I don't know just how many of these guys exist in our culture or on the trail, but I do know they are out there in far greater numbers than you would want if you set out to create an ideal society. Women know this in their bones and it is human nature that some will negotiate their way around these guys with more success than others will.

ed bell

08-26-2006, 10:44

Let me get this straight, she agreed to hike with him some more after she saw him snorting OxyContin? Is it just me or did she act like that was similar to sippin a cool Budweiser? :confused:

rickb

08-26-2006, 10:46

Deleted Post

Smile

08-26-2006, 10:51

Tell the Harford Advocate Editors what you think about it.

Group Publisher & Senior Editor:
Janet Reynolds
[email protected]

Editor:
Alistair Highet
[email protected]

Lone Wolf

08-26-2006, 10:51

She'll do you if you're a Deadhead who hates Walmart and refuses to shave for a job.:D :rolleyes:

SGT Rock

08-26-2006, 10:54

Edited to make this post not pointed at anyone in particular, just to clear up my standpoint on this...

I do not mean imply that she had sex with lots of guys.

She says the best way to shake a "pink blazer" is to get a new guy:

"I used other guys to ditch Easy Rider in the same way that I used Uncle John to ditch Ibby"

"the only effective way to ditch a pink blazer was to cozy up to someone else. I was oblivious to men’s feelings"

"I wasn’t looking to ruin anyone’s hike. I just didn’t care"

So she says she used guys to loose guys and then used more to loose those. I don't believe they were all sexual. There are ways to lead a man on and they are not all sex. Some guys fall for girls attention, and not all of them are mature enough to know it was not real.

Anyway, I still think there is an important lesson here for men and women.

rickb

08-26-2006, 10:55

I deleted my post as you were writing yours, Rock.

I will have to rethink this.

SGT Rock

08-26-2006, 10:57

OK, its cool rick. I have no beef with anyone over this.

It is all good ;)

Edit....

I edited my post to clear up my position lest I get accused of it again.

QHShowoman

08-26-2006, 12:40

It would appear that the Hartford Courant must have had a slow news day.

This article is from the Hartford Advocate -- a free entertainment weekly -- not the Hartford Courant.

bfitz

08-26-2006, 12:58

Two points: it would seem to me that a lot of the responses to DV's article (ridiculing her, calling her a **** in so many words, minimizing or denying her feelings and experiences) does a lot to validate what she says. The very first thing anyone thinks to do, in response to this piece, is figure out what she was doing "wrong" and then blame her for it. Sounds pretty familiar.

Second, even though I have never thru-hiked, I have also had the experience of someone on the trail attaching himself to me and refusing to take any kind of hint to back off or move along. It is not something I have ever posted about but if you think it doesn't happen, or that it's not a big deal or scary if it does, then you're wrong.

Jane in CTShe didn't give "any type of hint". She hiked with the dude from Waynesboro to NY. I see men latch on to women all the time in all types of scenarios. Being a girl on the trail obviously has different challenges for females...but most seem to be able to negotiate such things diplomatically, as they do at home. When she finally did tell him to f off, he did. None of the thru hiking females I have known ever got mean, and this is the first time I've heard that, but she herself said she got mean, and her story bears that out. Being an attractive female probably presents all sorts of diplomatic challenges, and I appreciate that, but even by her own telling, her diplomacy was lacking. Her story does not reflect the experiences of any thruhiking females I have known. Except for the part about lots of attention from dudes. Well, get over it. At least she had a "flash of empathy" for poor OCD guy who brought the rope back to help her cross the river (a standard method she seemed to know nothing about). Come on, mabye if she had told her whole story, and included more of the positive this article would seem more balanced. Obviously she had some good times, hooked up, learned she could "hang" with the boys at "local dives" etc. so it can't have been all bad. She made it to Katahdin. This is an article designed to exploit the fears of females for effect. She highlighted the few crimes ever committed on the AT without noting the statistical reality that the trail is safer than her hometown mall parking lot. As Jack said, printing this artice was a disservice, and the reason being because it was so unbalanced, considering all the good times she didn't mention. Sorry about the heartbreaker song, but I don't think anyone called her a ****. Because hey, there is no such thing. Insensitive *****, mabye. There's lot's of those. Plenty of dudes are jerks too. The trail is a microcosm, but the people are the same. Intelligenge and diplomacy is all you need to have a good time.

In fact, the way she continued to hike with the guy (and other behaviors she described) shows a bit of the abused women syndrome, staying with the abuser voluntarily, I'm no psychologist, but people always ask "why didn't she just leave him?"

Sorry about the Heartbreaker thing, but I was actually a little bit offended when I read the article.

bfitz

08-26-2006, 13:03

weary

08-26-2006, 13:17

She'll do you if you're a Deadhead who hates Walmart and refuses to shave for a job.:D :rolleyes:
Hmmm. Good catch there, L Wolf. Wise women should read the piece for hints about what not to do as a single thru hiker.

Brrrb Oregon

08-26-2006, 14:07

This looks like a case of rampant romanticism, and a pretty easy one to fall into. It seems that the author either did not know what people were like or else imagined that hiking a certain number of miles a day selects for character traits that have nothing to do with the ability to keep walking. How many of us imagine that we are different when out in nature....right down to having a different name from what we carry in "civilization"? It isn't a stretch to start imagining that everyone else is different, too, and different in exactly the way that best fits our fantasy.

I have five older brothers, and they told me a long time ago that if women could read men's minds, they'd all wear burqas. Not every single guy is like that, but they told me in no uncertain terms that that is the way to bet. There is no reason to spend your life wrangling over whether that is by choice or by nature. What is, is. I've never hiked the ACT, but from what I gather, it is 2,000 miles of that same lesson, over and over and over again.

In spite of what we'd all like to hope, we won't escape neurotics by getting a certain distance from a parking lot. They are like mosquitoes and bears.... a part of the nature of the trail that you have to take as part of the package and prepare for accordingly.

My take is that, as with the bears, the danger is not grave unless you fail to take the inescapeable fact of it into consideration. As for psychotics, they are really rather rare. You might run into a rapist, but you also might run into a man-eating bear who skips the Gorp and decides to make you the main course. I don't think the odds are too different. If the bears don't keep you home or make you want to hike in a group, the boys shouldn't, either.

Men? Men are nothing to worry about. Women are nothing to worry aboout. As with most wildlife, it is the juveniles that are unpredictable. Now if only we could all judge that by chronological age!

Oh, well. We can't. What is, is.

Dances with Mice

08-26-2006, 14:55

How come I've got a feeling that her relationships off the trail would be about the same as she described on the trail? Different places and different faces but that's all.

Smile

08-26-2006, 14:55

IMHO she gives women and men a bad name out there.

Perhpas acting more like a lady would've left her with more positive experiernces to report on.

ed bell

08-26-2006, 15:21

Let me get this straight, she agreed to hike with him some more after she saw him snorting OxyContin? Is it just me or did she act like that was similar to sippin a cool Budweiser? :confused: I read her article again, and this still jumps out at me. Am I just getting old, or is this WAY out of line. I believe she said this was done in a shelter full of people. I'm far from being a prude; hell, I know what reefer smells like;), but it sounds like she was hanging out with a sketchy dude. What the hell did she expect?

wilconow

08-26-2006, 15:23

Hiking Female Alone (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10422)

Darwin again

08-26-2006, 15:38

As with most wildlife, it is the juveniles that are unpredictable.

LOL. :D Well put.

I don't want to get lured into that old deadly simplistic "men/women just don't understand women/men" trap. It seems like there were enough misunderstandings and hurt feelings to go around and the circumstances seemed to follow this hiker.

I know there are people who wander through life obliviously leaving a trail of bloody emotional messes and broken hearts in their wake until they learn, if they ever do, how to stop making those messes. Live and learn.
Like Rock said: If you've been married nine times, it's probably you.

This story could have been the same if she wrote about a group bike trip or dating coworkers or living in a college dorm or apartment complex.
The AT location is merely incidental to the events.
Seems like the tone of the writing is implying that she was somehow a victim. Of course, the headline doesn't help, either.
"SEX, STALKING AND CRAZY PEOPLE ON THE A.T., OH MY!"

The Oxycontin part cracks me us.
That could be a RED FLAG...:-? ya think?

TJ aka Teej

08-26-2006, 15:41

Thanks for posting this story. I found DejaVu's story, and the comments about it, interesting. Sure isn't the usual "Local hiker completes A.T." newspaper story!

Brrrb Oregon

08-26-2006, 16:33

LOL. :D Well put.

I don't want to get lured into that old deadly simplistic "men/women just don't understand women/men" trap. It seems like there were enough misunderstandings and hurt feelings to go around and the circumstances seemed to follow this hiker.

I know there are people who wander through life obliviously leaving a trail of bloody emotional messes and broken hearts in their wake until they learn, if they ever do, how to stop making those messes. Live and learn.
Like Rock said: If you've been married nine times, it's probably you.

This story could have been the same if she wrote about a group bike trip or dating coworkers or living in a college dorm or apartment complex.

Too true! It isn't men/women just don't understand women/men.
It is that some people, no matter who they're dealing with, do not get it.
They don't have the common sense and awareness that God gave a pitted cherry.
As much of a bummer as it is to run into nasty, thoughtless, self-centered people, it shouldn't be taken as a surprise, particularly when you're willing to join the group when it suits your purposes.

The AT location is merely incidental to the events.
Seems like the tone of the writing is implying that she was somehow a victim. Of course, the headline doesn't help, either.
"SEX, STALKING AND CRAZY PEOPLE ON THE A.T., OH MY!"

Exactly. There are some people who are not going to be safe anywhere without a chaperone who's allowed to use a cattle prod.

The Oxycontin part cracks me up.
That could be a RED FLAG...:-? ya think?

Again: Exactly! "Umm, is it just me, or is that red flag throwing off embers?" :eek:

weary

08-26-2006, 17:20

1993 is increrasingly a long time ago so things may have changed, but I went south to Springer that year mostly because I was curious about the trail and the people on the trail -- and even dabbled with the idea of writing a book about what I observed.

Anyway I observed and listened, which incidentally had been my occupation for the previous 40 years, so I was kind of skilled at it. I heard nothing like the conversation that this piece begins with. I saw a few couples that seemed to have been formed on the trail. They seemed to be totally consenual.

I hiked slower than most, so I was with multiple groups for days or weeks at a time and then most moved ahead. As I got to know single female hikers and sensed that they thought me pretty harmless, I would occasionally ask if they had ever felt in danger or threatened on the trail. The answer was always "no."

Weary GA-ME 1993

Jack Tarlin

08-26-2006, 17:24

Weary, 1993 WAS a long time ago.

But cartain things haven't changed much.

The Advocate article is a crock.

rickb

08-26-2006, 18:31

Jack Tarlin

08-26-2006, 18:43

Rick, I know you object to virtually everything I say regardless of subject, but please don't put words in my mouth.

Read my first post.

It's very clear what I was saying.

I think much of this woman's story is invented or embellished. If behavior of this sort is that widespread, then I suppose I'd have heard it talked about by the hundreds of women long-distance hikers I've met over the years. Oddly enough, this hasn't been the case.

And while there are certainly men out there who either speak or act dis-respectfully towards women---or towards some women, anyway---I simply don't believe the problem is as profound or dramatic as this writer says.

You say "This was one woman's experience, right?"

I say "This is what one woman CLAIMS to be her experience."

And I, for one, don't entirely believe it.

ed bell

08-26-2006, 18:51

This was one woman's experience, right?

Jack, are you also saying that so called "pink blazing" does not make some woman uncomfortable? And that men should not stop to think that what to them is perfectly normal (with regard to pink blazing), might be considered untoward by some women?

I got to say that I am surprised by the reaction here.

Rick BStalking is never normal. Being attracted to someone is. Trying to keep yourself in close proximity to someone for days on end is stalking. Letting someone know you find them attractive is acceptable, but given the unique backdrop of long distance hiking, one would be wise to choose their moment wisely. My reaction to this article really has nothing to do with the issue of male thru-hikers stalking or "pink-blazing". The article is a poor example of what women thru-hikers should expect. The problem with hikers using the trail as a dating service is the fact that there is no "home" to retreat to if things get weird.

Brrrb Oregon

08-26-2006, 22:11

You say "This was one woman's experience, right?"

I say "This is what one woman CLAIMS to be her experience."

And I, for one, don't entirely believe it.

You don't have to believe it to imagine that she believes it, though. I suspect that the entire problem is the profound difference between her perceptions and the perceptions of everyone she had a problem with. Even taking her own account at face value, she was more than merely unlucky in the outcome following her choice and treatment of her trail companions.

At any rate, I had to admit that I did have my concerns, if only because the ACT seems so much more crowded than the PCT. When you're from one part of the country, after all, you hear all sorts of nonsense about what people and places in other parts are "really like." I have been more than relieved to read that this article does not fit the general perception of what a woman can expect if they hike the ACT alone. That is what I'm taking home from this thread.

Smile

08-26-2006, 23:08

Ed Bell: The article is a poor example of what women thru-hikers should expect.

I have to agree with you Ed.

Sly

08-26-2006, 23:27

Jack Tarlin

08-26-2006, 23:34

Sly, I don't think there's a guy who's yo-yo'd more than once, never mind seven consecutive times.

Seven consecutive thru-hikes has been done exactly once, and it didn't involve either yo-yoing, or a guy named Riff.

And if there are any deep or treacherous fords in the first two thirds of the Trail, they must have slipped my mind.

In short, there is much here that does not ring true.

fiddlehead

08-26-2006, 23:41

While reading the article, my thoughts were that she was on the wrong trail. Perhaps the PCT or CDT or a SOBO would be more what she is looking for.
But, the more i read, the more i realized, it didn't matter where she was in life: traveling alone around the world is done by many many women all the time. I meet them a lot here in Asia and most of them love what they are doing, and have learned how to handle delicate situations.
his girl could easily stay away from shelters, men, bars, problems. We all do and go where and what we choose to go and do.
I truly believe she is the cause of many of her problems.
I agree with Jack that the article should not have been published. It's very negative and i believe unjustifyably so. remember, we are only hearing her side of the story

Ewker

08-26-2006, 23:44

good thing she didn't run into a Minnesota Smith type on the trail :eek:

Tin Man

08-26-2006, 23:45

I stopped believing the story when she said she had rib deep fords in the first 1500 miles and she met a hiker named Riff that yo-yo'ed 7 times consecutively? Is there such a guy?

Perhaps it's just a screenplay to a fictional movie...

Perhaps the truth is somewhere between what she writes and pure fiction. Let's say it sounds like an embellishment of what may have transpired and some of it may have been paranoia at work too. We don't know and we are just speculating, but I think we would have heard a lot more stories like this if it were a common thing. Let's just say that women do have a more challenging time warding off unwanted attention in a closed system like the trail and this woman was not as prepared as most of the others who came before her.

fiddlehead

08-27-2006, 00:06

This story reminds me of someone i met back about 10 yrs ago (no names now)
The girl was always surrounded by a horde of men, she even looked at me somewhat helplessly as i entered the camp site she was using for the night. And sort of shrugged her shoulders to me as if saying: what can i do?
I gave her a little advice about choosing her camp, and not telling anyone where, and stealth camping and all.
Well, about 1,000 miles further on, met her again as she flipped and was traveling exclusively with one of those guys that i saw her with back there in GA.
She eventually married the guy as i was invited to the wedding.
I think she got what she was looking for.
Perhaps this girl who wrote that long story did not.

TIDE-HSV

08-27-2006, 14:49

Searches of "Backpacker" mag, "E/The Environmental Magazine" and "Transitions Abroad" all turn up "no matches found" for "Emily Weil."

SGT Rock

08-27-2006, 14:56

I got the same thing. As well as a check on that one site www.eco-chick.com (http://www.eco-chick.com). There are lots of people listed, but she is not one of them and her name doesn't come up on a search.

TIDE-HSV

08-27-2006, 15:34

the next step is TrailJournals, to see if she - or any of the other folks she mentions - is referenced anywhere. With the swath she seems to have cut, somebody should have mentioned her...

TIDE-HSV

08-27-2006, 15:38

I forgot - search only covers writers...

bfitz

08-27-2006, 16:37

Stalking is never normal. Being attracted to someone is. Trying to keep yourself in close proximity to someone for days on end is stalking. Letting someone know you find them attractive is acceptable, but given the unique backdrop of long distance hiking, one would be wise to choose their moment wisely. My reaction to this article really has nothing to do with the issue of male thru-hikers stalking or "pink-blazing". The article is a poor example of what women thru-hikers should expect. The problem with hikers using the trail as a dating service is the fact that there is no "home" to retreat to if things get weird.Yeah, If you want them to stop stalking you step 1 would be to stop having sex with them, IMO.

SGT Rock

08-27-2006, 16:44

Before y'all start trying to track this down too far on trail names, the names could have been changed to mask who they really were.

bfitz

08-27-2006, 16:50

I hope so, because she sure trashed a few trail names in the article.

TIDE-HSV

08-27-2006, 17:04

But that would be the responsible thing to do...:)

rickb

08-27-2006, 17:25

From the original version on the web at

http://www.ctnow.com/custom/nmm/fairfieldweekly/hce-fcw-0824-ff35-fe-appalachiannew35.artaug24,0,1624312.story

at story's end.

Names and certain details of this story were changed to protect people’s privacy.

Emily Weil is a travel writer and environmental journalist. She currently lives in California, but, if you ask, she’ll tell you that her real home is in the calm pine groves and the craggy granite outcroppings of New Hampshire’s White Mountains.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-27-2006, 18:05

An older lady's point-of-view. I've had several attractive young women hikers tell me they have trouble ditching unwanted attention from 'pink blazers'. One particularly cute lass said she had gotten her brother to meet her three times and say he was her boyfriend to get rid of unwanted 'pink blazers’ while we were talking in the shower area at Trail Days 2005. I thought it a bit odd that a woman her age didn’t know how to get rid of unwanted attention. I certainly did at her age.

She mentioned one female thru-hiker in negative terms - a girl that was sleeping around a lot that year. She said the girl was using new pink blazers to get rid of other pink blazers after she got bored with them. She said the girl had a lot of other problems and went on to tell me enough for me to fill in the blanks. My best guess would be a long history of sexual abuse, really messed up boundaries / social training and very low self-esteem.

When you mix a beautiful young woman with a bunch of 'hungry' fellows, sparks are going to fly. Most young women have the ability to not to let the sparks ignite a fire if they don't want a fire, but a young woman with the problems described to me very likely would not be able to successfully navigate in this difficult emotional water. She would not understand that some of the fellows would want to remain in her company after she had used them.

What I am saying is that her experience would not parallel what other young women would experience. The vast majority of young women - especially attractive young women - learn how to fend off unwanted attention without all the drama the story above relates and without using another person as part of the equation.

Sly

08-27-2006, 18:17

Quote:
Names and certain details of this story were changed to protect people’s privacy.

Emily Weil is a travel writer and environmental journalist. She currently lives in California, but, if you ask, she’ll tell you that her real home is in the calm pine groves and the craggy granite outcroppings of New Hampshire’s White Mountains.

It still doesn't explain the "rib deep fords" in the 1st 1500 miler or the 7 consectitive yo-yo's by a hiker of any name.

Topcat

08-27-2006, 18:25

It probably wouldnt be good to try and figure out who the author is as i am sure Deja Vu has been used as a trail name 100 times. I know i have seen it in trail journals more than once.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-27-2006, 18:26

Have there be any years when the fords particularly deep or difficult due to excessive rain during the period when NOBO would have been hiking the first 1,500 miles?

TIDE-HSV

08-27-2006, 18:32

just playing with the name. If nothing else, her paranoia would keep her from using her real trail name - Uncle John might track her down again. I assumed that the "deja vu" part related to her monotonously repeated problem with men. Notice that I used "problem" in the singular...

Smile

08-27-2006, 18:43

TIDEHSV:I assumed that the "deja vu" part related to her monotonously repeated problem with men. Notice that I used "problem" in the singular..

LOL, now you got that right

Pacific Tortuga

08-27-2006, 19:00

I didn't see that she out to get guys, she was "thick" at the beginning and not to, atractive? Later in the hike she was lean, taned, rosy cheeked and,hot? She sounds like she didn't know how to handle relationships very well or was giving back like she had been treated and it got out of control. Her story was printed and that is usually the bottom line true or not it seems. It will make me more aware of how I am around single gals on the trail and so that is a good thing.

Sly

08-27-2006, 19:26

Have there be any years when the fords particularly deep or difficult due to excessive rain during the period when NOBO would have been hiking the first 1,500 miles?

I can only recall one ford in the south, but that also had a high water route. Most of the other crossings have bridges. I'm also trying to remember where the AT in VA has 25 miles of flat hiking.

The Old Fhart

08-27-2006, 19:38

Little Wolf Creek about 5 miles south of Bland, VA, has 12 crossings that can be interesting if there has been lots of rain. I believe that is the one Sly is talking about.

Tin Man

08-27-2006, 19:50

Two years ago, I met a SOBO thru-hiking lady in VT who was young, petite and very pretty. She said her name was Ghost and when I prompted her on how she got the name, she smiled and said because she didn't stop at the lean-to's and was rarely seen by others. I think this was her way of keeping herself safe, but I felt bad for in a way as she is missing the social aspects of the trail.

Jack Tarlin

08-27-2006, 20:11

Hey, let's take a quick time out here.

Nobody is denying that there are women who've been paid attention by admirers they can do without. To be honest, this probably happens to just about every woman out there, even shockingly plain ones. Considering the male/female ratio out there, this is not exactly surprising. Sometimes, this unwanted attention is amusing, even to the women. Sometimes, it gets annoying. Only on extremely rare occasions does it become so serious that other hikers have to intervene, or so serious that women hikers have to alter or completely re-work their hiking plans to get away from someone.

I think the author of this article has greatly exaggerated reality.

I'm not gonna say her story is complete bull****. After all, virtually every woman on the Trail, regardless of appearance, has received attention from other hikers, most of whom, of course, are single males.

But there's something wrong about her story.

I've spent a great deal of time on the Trail in the past 12 years. I've met with, talked with, and hiked with hundreds of women hikers. I've read the journals and diaries of dozens more.

And I've never heard a story as dramatic as this one. Ever.

(And incidentally, even in the worst weather I've ever encountered in the first 1500 miles of the Trail (that'd be Shenandoah Nat'l Park in late June of 95and the first two weeks of June in central Virginia in 2003, I've never encountered dangerous rib-deep fords. There are more than a few things about this story that simply don't ring true).

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-27-2006, 20:24

The voice of experience is invaluable. Several here have said this story has holes in the details about the trail.

I didn't want to come right out and say this earlier, but people with fragmented personalities often have difficulty telling the truth. It isn't so much that they lie intentionally as that they are incapable of accurately recording material in the memory. Such fragmentation is common in the sort of childhood that would lead to having multiple sexual liaisons with people who someone barely knows and the inability to gauge the level of involvement being felt by the others involved. I have to wonder if this doesn't apply to this situation.

Jack Tarlin

08-27-2006, 21:41

Actually, F.D., there are all sorts of holes in her story. I just re-read the whole thing quickly, and half a dozen doozies jumped off the page:

*She says that she could out-hike all of the 18 men who were with her
at Tray Mountain. Well, how did she know that? And if she was so fast,
how come she couldn't out-hike all her stalkers? She was allegedly fast
enough to make it to Arden Mtn. in 90 days. Pretty damned good time.
(Of course, she says this was the 1500-mile mark, and it's more like 1370,
but let's not quibble)

*In another anecdote, she implies that she made it from Tray Mountain to the
the Smokies in a week. She further implies that in this anecdote, she's
talking about a position somewhere North of Gatlinburg. Tray to Newfound
Gap (the Gatlinburg Road) is almost 150 miles. That would be be something
like a 21 mile-per-day clip, for 7 consecutive days. That's VERY fast time,
especially this early in a thru-hike. Once again, anyone allegedly capable of this sort of pace isn't gonna be troubled by stalkers.

*Hikers snorting Oxy-Contin in public without that becoming the talk of the
Trail or the Internet? Gimme a break.

*The character of "Riff" is either a composite of several people or is a
complete invention. Nobody's ever yo-yo'd the trail seven times, either
with or without a dog.

*The Priest finishes with a "relentless" 3000-foot climb? Not if you're a
Northbounder it doesn't.

*The bit about the guy who reversed direction to stalk her is ridiculous. And
there's no indication that she spoke about this to other hikers at the time,
or reported it, even tho she was allegedly so terrified that she threatened
another hiker's life. Either totally irresponsible on her part, or the story is
fanciful.

And I won't even go into her own promiscuity. You can talk all you want about the double-standard that may exist (i.e guys that score on the Trail are envied as "studs" and girls who do it are known as tramps), but the fact remains that when hikers are physically involved with other hikers, EVERYONE knows about it. When they are involved with multiple partners in the course of a trip, it is perhaps unfair, but it is inevitable that this will affect someone's reputation, and may well affect how one is treated by others. Or to put it another way, if this gal's hiking shorts were held up by easily accessible bungee cords (as she herself essentially admits), then it should come as no surprise that other hikers were, shall we say, somewhat bold in their approach to her. Or to speak in plain Bostonese, slatterns get hit on more than nice girls. Perhaps if this young lady had been either more reserved, or more discreet in the bestowing of her bounteous favors, maybe she'd have been treated with more respect by her peers. And gee, you'd think after all those back-to-back 21 mile days, she'd be too tired at the end of the day for these shenanigans. Oh, to be young again!

Anyway, I've said it before, but it needs repeating.

Lots of holes here. If here story's true---and that's a big if---then it sounds to me like she's trying to rationalize her own poor judgment and questionable morality while on the Trail by blaming others for her problems. As Wolf so eloquently put it, she has issues.

To put it bluntly, I believe almost none of this tawrdy story, and even if part of it is true, she made it quite clear that she was something of a libertine on the Trail, and that the ease with which she could be bedded was evidently widely known.

People that are so casual and carefee about how they use their own bodies should hardly be suprised when others feel that this moral laxity is an invitation to yet more furtive trailside couplings.

Or to go back to Bostonese, geez, lady, if you don't want people to get the impression that you're easily parted with your trousers, well try keeping them on for more than a few days at a time. And if you're incapable of this, well don't be surprised by all the attention you get.

Moral of story: If you install a turnstile outside your tent, you'd better be prepared when everyone wants to give it a spin.

The author decries the practice of "pink blazing" in the course of her story, and would have us believe that this phenomena orginates with piggish men.

On the contrary, sometimes the pink blazes on the Trail are clearly---and intentionally---left on the Trail for all to see, and what they are, on occasion, is merely spoor left by wild little creatures who have come into season.

It happens every spring.

bfitz

08-27-2006, 22:42

Main point is she continues to have sex with her primary stalker, all the while complaining about her situation. And as soon as she actually stops putting out, and tells the guy to go away, she never sees him again! Where does she get off calling this guy a stalker? Thats what is known as an ex-boyfriend. I can just picture one of those days she describes where they only hiked 3 miles because they talked about their relationship so much, and then that night she shacks up with him. ***? "Uncle John" must have thought she was nuts! Mabye he was actually in such an oxycontin daze he was unaware of the entire situation.

Tin Man

08-27-2006, 23:00

Hmm. Makes you wonder who was snorting the oxycontin, him or perhaps her? :-?

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-27-2006, 23:05

Jack, I wasn't questioning what you and the others have noted re: holes in her story. I was giving a possible explanation for them. This may be a case of Bryson-itis - she wrote about something she never actually experienced and sold it to the public as fact.

Jack Tarlin

08-27-2006, 23:06

Actually, F.D., that is a perfectly splendid description of what I think is happening here. Well done!

minnesotasmith

08-27-2006, 23:08

good thing she didn't run into a Minnesota Smith type on the trail :eek:

Name ONE female hiker I have pink-blazed after during my currently-underway thruhike attempt. You won't be able to, because there haven't been any.

Jack Tarlin

08-27-2006, 23:13

And considering the speed at which you hike, Smitty, even if you were to engage in such a questionable enterprise, I'm not entirely sure it would constitute a Red Alert national threat.

And anyway, it ain't your style. :D

Ewker

08-27-2006, 23:31

Back it up, or retract it, Ewker...
<HR style="COLOR: #339966" SIZE=1>Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Ewker
good thing she didn't run into a Minnesota Smith type on the trail :eek:
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Name ONE female hiker I have pink-blazed after during my currently-underway thruhike attempt. You won't be able to, because there haven't been any.

did I say you?? I think not.

bfitz

08-27-2006, 23:33

He may have meant good thing for you, MS. You don't need that type latching on.

Lone Wolf

08-28-2006, 06:31

This chick is just one of those man-hating feminazi lesbos. Very confused she is.:rolleyes:

Krewzer

08-28-2006, 09:04

I stopped believing the story when she said she had rib deep fords in the first 1500 miles and she met a hiker named Riff that yo-yo'ed 7 times consecutively? Is there such a guy?

Perhaps it's just a screenplay to a fictional movie...

Obviously she is a very short hiker with thunder thighs who can magically converse with a migrating 7 year old canadian goose....

Deju Vu or Marie LeVeaux? UhhhhWeeee...another man done gone.

Rain Man

08-28-2006, 15:35

... Such fragmentation is common in the sort of childhood that would lead to having multiple sexual liaisons with people who someone barely knows and the inability to gauge the level of involvement being felt by the others involved. ...

It's called "dissociation" and happens to plenty of sexually abused girls.

To make matters worse, they are too often again victimized by people who judge them as if they were dissociating by choice.

Rain Man

.

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 15:44

RainMan--

People also get "judged" by their words, deeds, and actions.

People that are known by their contemporaries to be promiscuous and sexually active tend to get hit on more than folks who behave with modesty, decorum, and self-respect.

In such a small "community" as the A.T., there is no question as to who might be "available" or who definitely isn't. And the fact of the matter is that certain women---and certain types of women---get lots more attention than others. And it is their behavior and subsequent reputations that are principally responsible for this.

Nobody is "victimizing" anyone here. They're merely commenting on her own behavior, behavior which, in my opinion, was responsible for most of her alleged troubles.

Or to put it another way,if you don't want folks to treat you like you're easy, then don't act like a hussy.

It tends to send out a certain message.

Newb

08-28-2006, 15:48

weary

08-28-2006, 16:44

Shutterbug

08-28-2006, 17:05

Well, at least she answered one of my questions -- Who would carry that much rope to Vaughn Stream? Thanks, Stowaway!!

java

08-28-2006, 17:19

Regardless of the number of times you've hiked the trail; unless you are a female solo hiker you will have no idea what the reality is. I don't care how many women you've spoken to, hiked with or slept with, you've never (as a man) walked in her shoes.
Granted, half of what this woman wrote is seemingly exaggerated, dismissing it, just like not standing up for female hikers among you; their rights, dignity and accomplishments is akin to saying a woman who dresses provocativley deserves to be raped.
The 'most sexy hiker babe' thread (with over 9500 views) speaks volumes on the mindset of the majority of men on this site towards women.

comet

08-28-2006, 17:20

Some folks at Metafilter have figured out who she is. (http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/54299)

TOW

08-28-2006, 17:29

Some folks at Metafilter have figured out who she is. (http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/54299)
well who was she, point it out...............

max patch

08-28-2006, 17:35

Some folks at Metafilter have figured out who she is. (http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/54299)

Shes got a website and everything. Bet the "contact" link gets a lot of use as more people figure it out.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-28-2006, 17:40

Deleted...

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 17:51

Java:

Nobody is suggesting that this woman, or any woman deserves to be harassed or worse.

What several of us pointed out is that on the Trail, as well as elsewhere, people will get judged by their behavior and actions.

In a community as small as the A.T., everyone knows everyone else, and while a lot of perceptions about people might not always be accurate (the A.T. can be a remarkably gossipy place), a lot of times, these perceptions are exactly on the mark.

In the course of a thru-hike, a hiker will meet several hundred other hikers. Because of trail registers, one will be aware of scores more, even if they've never met them.

Let's pretend that instead of the Trail, we're talking about a small town, say in Alaska, where the male/female ratio is around 7 to 2. In this town, many of the women are singularly unavailable or unavailable to interested men, i.e. they're too old; they're married; they're gay; they're living with husbands, boyfriends, or girlfriends, whatever. This means that in the sourse of a six month period in our little town, there are perhaps two dozen single available females.

Let us further suppose that one of these females is known throughout the community for having been involved with several of the villagers over the period of just a few months, including getting back together with an old boyfriend for a brief fling. It is widely known that she gets involved with men for a brief period of time, has her fun, and then discards them.

Well, Java, who in this town do you honestly think is going to attract the most attention from single men? The seventy-year old librarian? The minister's wife? The two middle-aged gay ladies that run the general store?

Get real.

Certain behavior is going to attract certain behavior by others, both in small towns, and on the Trail.

Nobody is saying this girl "deserved" what she got or was "asking for it."

What we're saying is that much of what happened to her (and even you acknowledge that much of it seems exaggerated if not outright invented) was indeed encouraged by her own behavior.

If you don't want your contemporaries to think that you're cheap, promiscuous, and available, well gee, then don't be cheap, promiscuous, and available. Otherwise, it quite understandably gives people the wrong idea about you, and may well encourage forward behavior that would not have otherwise taken place.

People generally end up getting the respect and esteem they deserve.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-28-2006, 17:54

What Jack just said.

ed bell

08-28-2006, 18:13

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 18:19

Another comment re. Java's thread:

First off, the sexy hiker babe thread has 5900 views, not 9500. And how many times something is viewed here doesn't necessarily mean anything significant: The Minnesota Smith thread has been viewed around 10 times that number......are we then to believe that folks at Whiteblaze are 10 times more interested in Smitty than they are in sex?

The fact is, on any Internet forum, any time the word "Sex" appears in the title of a thread or post, folks are gonna check it out, and as for the level of maturity or sense in that particular thread, well, geesh, the thread, as silly as it is, is a joke.

I don't for one minute believe that the majority of folks here at Whiteblaze have low opinions of women.

It would be more correct to say that many of them have poor opinions of low women.

The difference is significant.

Lone Wolf

08-28-2006, 18:21

Maybe she's one of them hairy legged, man-hatin feminazis too.:D

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 18:24

No, she isn't, Wolf. She's a great person.

I just happen to disagree with her on this.

And I also don't think someone has to have been a lone woman hiker to be able to comment on this matter. Just cuz I've never been elected President doesn't mean I can't complain about the one we got, no?

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 18:25

:confused: Jack, my search turned up 9,586 views (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/search.php?searchid=1104659)for the thread in question.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 18:28

Interestingly, the 'Most Sexy Hiker Gentleman' (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13097&highlight=sexiest)had a respectable 4,083 views.

Sex sells, I guess. :D

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 18:29

Alright, so I'm dyslexic today.

Doesn't alter the fact that the thread is a joke. Albeit, a poor one, but it's not worth getting worked up over.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 18:31

Agreed....:D

saimyoji

08-28-2006, 18:34

Yep, over 9500 views, but only 133 posts. That thread was started as a joke by neo in response to something that was happening around that time. Its not an insensitive thread.

Interesting to note that this thread:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13097&highlight=sexiest

was started in response (retaliation?) to that thread and has only half the views (4000), but almost as many posts (104).

Point? We are adults (well most of you are) who like to have fun and try not to take ourselves too seriously all the time.

saimyoji

08-28-2006, 18:35

skid you scooped me. I'm a slow typer. :cool:

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 18:42

OK - deep breath, 'cause this is embarrasing - when I hiked from Springer to Erwin years ago, I took advantage of the fact that for the first time in my life I was around cool guys who LIKED ME!!! I got a bad reputation. A 76 year old hiker even warned the guy I ended up marrying to be careful because I'd hurt him, like I'd hurt several others. The point - I brought the bad karma upon myself. I was young, stupid, and enjoying the attention. Hopefully, "Deja Vu" (although I don't believe half of her story) will grow up and realize her own role in the problems she had. And I hope karma bites her in the a** for trashing the Trail.

max patch

08-28-2006, 18:45

I've thrown my two cents in about this article and I'm sticking with my opinion. That being said, I do not agree with exposing the identity of the author. Finding out is one thing, posting it is another. I think it's bad form.

I agree.

It took me about 2 minutes to locate her website and email addy. I figure if anyone wants to write her an intelligent email about the inconsistencies in her story then they are intelligent enough to find this info on their own.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 19:12

Lone Wolf

08-28-2006, 19:16

i've been a lurker on the site -- until now. i must speak out against what's been said here in this thread. it's blame the victim. can't you men see how wrong you are? in my view, you are a bunch of sexist pigs. you say it all with your references to hairy legs, etc. you should all be ashamed of yourselves.
*** is she a victim of? Her own mind? Are your legs hairy? You're one of THEM, ain't ya.:D

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 19:22

Lone Wolf

08-28-2006, 19:30

you think you're sooooo funny. you are a caveman. how would you feel if you were weak and vulnerable and men were thoughtlessly harassing you? can you possibly be so insensitive?
Honey, I've been on the AT for 20 years and have never seen anything like this broad is describing. It's a non-issue. She likes sex from men but doesn't want anything else. Big deal. She should quit ***n guys, no?

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 19:31

*** is she a victim of? Her own mind? Are your legs hairy? You're one of THEM, ain't ya.:D

you think you're sooooo funny. you are a caveman. how would you feel if you were weak and vulnerable and men were thoughtlessly harassing you? can you possibly be so insensitive?

Sunshine, I'd be happy to tell you how I feel after you answer Wolf's first and second questions.

Third question is optional. I'll leave it up to you. :)

ed bell

08-28-2006, 19:43

i've been a lurker on the site -- until now. i must speak out against what's been said here in this thread. it's blame the victim. can't you men see how wrong you are? in my view, you are a bunch of sexist pigs. you say it all with your references to hairy legs, etc. you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Welcome to the board.:welcome Blanket statements lumping all posts together do not help you get your point across. I am ashamed of nothing that I have said in this thread. How about starting with quoting certain posts and pointing out what you find offensive.

Disney

08-28-2006, 19:45

This is just my two cents, but it hasn't been specifically covered here. She describes her difficulty in getting money together to hike, her website publication records are less than impressive and certainly aren't going to pay well if at all. Isn't it possible that she got done with the trail and then simply made most of it up to sell the story and make a few bucks quickly?

She probably attempted to sell her memoires or whatever and quickly learned that there was no market because far to many people have great experiences and do just that. Take a quick "artistic expression" brush to the story and voila! 250 bucks.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 19:47

Sunshine, I should have welcomed you to WB as well.
My apologies. :welcome

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 19:47

I'll bite. I'll play the game I see here so often

sunshine=deja vu?

I didn't see where she was weak and vulnerable, or the guys were thoughtlessly harassing her. Would you call it harassing if it was a girl following a guy she had a crush on and had slept with?

There are guys I've run across when hiking that I was afraid of, so I'm not dismissing the fear factor. But if you've led someone on...

Boys will be boys.
Girls will be girls.
There's good and bad about how each act.
In this case, the worst in both seem to have been brought out.

Although I tend to agree with Disney.

Disney

08-28-2006, 19:50

*** is she a victim of? Her own mind? Are your legs hairy? You're one of THEM, ain't ya.:D

One of them? She joined today to discuss this post? It's got to be her. It wouldn't be the first time someone just happens to speak up for the first time on a thread defending that which should be examined, not blindly defended. I think Lone Wolf called the last guy out back in february.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 19:52

Honey, I've been on the AT for 20 years and have never seen anything like this broad is describing. It's a non-issue. She likes sex from men but doesn't want anything else. Big deal. She should quit ***n guys, no?

darling, it could be that you can't relate to what she's saying because you're not a woman. is that possible, my sexist sweetheart? her sexual habits are her own business. whatever. nothing gives men the right to harass her. no means no, even if the answer was yes yesterday. get it, honey? you men are amazingly stupid. you think that you know how women feel on the trail? no woman comes up to you and says they're being harassed? wonder why that is?

Lone Wolf

08-28-2006, 19:54

oh brother.:rolleyes: :D

Disney

08-28-2006, 19:59

you men are amazingly stupid. you think that you know how women feel on the trail?

Just out of sheer morbid curiosity Brianne, are the women who posted here stupid because they think they know how women feel on the trail?

If you're a lurker - as you claim to be- have you taken the trouble to check out the female section of the forum?

And it is slightly out of the ordinary that the links to the authors website started dropping off just about the time you posted first. Circumstantial I know, but interesting nonetheless.

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 20:00

Interesting how she avoids my comments, even though I've been in "Deja vu's" shoes. Could she be feeling a twinge of regret, a touch of the truth?

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 20:04

Interesting how she avoids my comments, even though I've been in "Deja vu's" shoes. Could she be feeling a twinge of regret, a touch of the truth?

You've got a suspiscious mind PR. I looove that in a woman.

Oh *****, that was a sexist comment wasn't it? ;)

Disney

08-28-2006, 20:06

Interesting how she avoids my comments, even though I've been in "Deja vu's" shoes. Could she be feeling a twinge of regret, a touch of the truth?

Your contribution took guts. She doesn't have enough to respond.

Much respect.:sun

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 20:08

No offense taken, Skidsteer. Although if you start following me around, I'll have to publish a nasty article about you.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 20:09

Boys will be boys.

you are a woman, right? you are worse than the men because, with comments like the above, you are enabling sexual harassment. have you no pride?

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 20:11

you are a woman, right? you are worse than the men because, with comments like the above, you are enabling sexual harassment. have you no pride?

Truth trumps pride. Every time.

saimyoji

08-28-2006, 20:12

Well, I wouldn't automatically assume sb is DejaVu, though something definately stinks about "her" posts. The last time I smelled that KirkMcQuest was on this site.

Can you spell T R O L L ???? :-?

max patch

08-28-2006, 20:14

i've been a lurker on the site -- until now.

Todays date: 8/28

Date you joined: 8/28

Exactly how long did you "lurk"?

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 20:16

you are a woman, right? you are worse than the men because, with comments like the above, you are enabling sexual harassment. have you no pride?

You left out the 'Girls will be girls' part of PR's quote.

Bad form.

Disney

08-28-2006, 20:16

you are a woman, right? you are worse than the men because, with comments like the above, you are enabling sexual harassment. have you no pride?

LW was right!!! She IS a man hater. Stand up Brienne and take a bow.

Topcat

08-28-2006, 20:17

I recognized the writer from trail journals as she traveled with some people who had some of the better journals from that year. (I thought anyway) I think the best people to comment on the validity of the article are people from 04 who knew her and hiked with her. Anyone out there?

Ordinarily i would say it was none of my business, but once the article is written, it is out there so now, why not get the skinny.

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 20:17

Boys will be boys.
Girls will be girls.
There's good and bad about how each act.
In this case, the worst in both seem to have been brought out.

I'm quoting myself, sunshine butterfly, because you seem to acknowledge only the part of my statement that pissed you off, not the entire thing, which has a totally different meaning.

Grow up.

Thanks again, Skidsteer.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-28-2006, 20:19

Better take me on as well, sb. I'm the female half of a hetro couple

Ender

08-28-2006, 20:19

Just ignore the troll. She's pathetic, angry, and her comments are less than worthless.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 20:22

that's right, attack me. i am not worthy of an opinion on this matter. no wonder there's so much sexual harassment on the appalachian trail.

saimyoji

08-28-2006, 20:24

You are worthy of an opinion. No one is saying you can't have an opinion. However you made some comments that some people disagreed with, and now you are hearing other people's opinions. Ain't Amerika grate? :rolleyes:

MOWGLI

08-28-2006, 20:25

Just ignore the troll. She's pathetic, angry, and her comments are less than worthless.

In the post above, substitute the word "article" for "troll". Then substitute the word "It's" for "She's." Finally, substitute "the article is" for "her comments are", and that about sizes up this entire topic.

I feel like I'm back in the corporate world listening to the same schmucks talking about who is sleeping with who. Buncha nonsense.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 20:26

that's right, attack me. i am not worthy of an opinion on this matter. no wonder there's so much sexual harassment on the appalachian trail.

So let's discuss it instead. In case you missed it:

Sunshine, I'd be happy to tell you how I feel after you answer Wolf's first and second questions.

Third question is optional. I'll leave it up to you. :)

Batter up!

Disney

08-28-2006, 20:27

Just ignore the troll. She's pathetic, angry, and her comments are less than worthless.

I do agree that she may be a troll, but seeing as how she's very very new to the site, this is for her benefit:

Troll is not a sexist term, it does not designate gender and is not intended to denigrate the looks of the target in any way.

A troll (here at least) can be a man or a woman who stirs up trouble for the purpose of amusing themselves at the anger of others. They don't mean what they say, it is simply intended to get a reaction.

Stick around hon you can learn lots of things here.

hon is not a sexist term, it does designate gender but is simply used to indicate familiarity, it does not make me a chauvinist pig.

hikerblogger

08-28-2006, 20:28

Take this clue from someone who edits newspaper copy for a living: everything in the article in question is most likely 100 percent true -- from the perspective of the writer.

The reason why her own possibly self-destructive behavior was left in the story (assuming it wasn't just to fill space) is that this provides complexity and nuance and makes it a better story than one which merely depicts men as apes and women as babes in the woods. She said at the beginning "the women get mean" and she admits at the end that yep, she was mean.

Any story that causes this much furor must be doing something right, but what that something is depends on the perspective of the reader. Some defend the trail, some defend the storyteller, some sit on the sidelines and chuckle at how little guys & gals of our species have learned after living together for 100,000 years.

Having said all this: it's still a story, that is, a narrative imposed on a collection of events. A story, not THE story.

The trail has survived far worse.

Disney

08-28-2006, 20:28

that's right, attack me. i am not worthy of an opinion on this matter. no wonder there's so much sexual harassment on the appalachian trail.

This is proof positive that you did not lurk here anonymously but came here for another reason altogether. See above post.

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 20:33

How to deal with sexual harassment in the real world and like an adult (go down the list if he won't get the message):

1. Ignore it.
2. Tell the guy he's out of line in a nice way.
3. Avoid the guy like the plague.
4. Tell the guy he's out of line in a not so nice way.
5. Report him to the authorities and let them deal with him (I guess that would be friendly fellow hikers on the AT).

Note that #6 is NOT sleep with him if he won't leave you alone.

And, guys, I know that women sometimes harass, but I generalized for simplicity.

As for rampant harassment on the trail, some women have heard comments around the campfire, or in the shelter. I've never heard anything worse than what my husband and his friends say on poker night. In both cases, they shut up quick with a dirty look.

saimyoji

08-28-2006, 20:33

Post 139(?) prediction: this thread will exceed 1000 posts, or it will be shut down before it can.

Disney

08-28-2006, 20:37

Note that #6 is NOT sleep with him if he won't leave you alone.
.....
they shut up quick with a dirty look.

I just involuntarily laughed out loud.
I'm in the school's law library and had to shut up from all the dirty looks.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 20:38

Note that #6 is NOT sleep with him if he won't leave you alone.

a woman should be able to sleep with whomever and then tell him to leave her alone, and that should be that. men should not be allowed in a civilized society to push themselves on women merely by virtue of the fact that they are bigger and stronger. there's no need for a bunch of rules for women to follow to stop harassment. the onus should be on the man to stop harassing.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 20:41

a woman should be able to sleep with whomever and then tell him to leave her alone, and that should be that.

Should men be allowed to do that as well?

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-28-2006, 20:43

Well, sb, anyone male or female who uses people as disposable sex toys is going to cause problems within a community as small as the trail community. I consider the behavior the writer in the article describes herself as having persued to be aberrant. I would think it would cause problems in any small community and regardless of the gender of the perpetrator.

bfitz

08-28-2006, 20:44

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 20:45

Should men be allowed to do that as well?

they've been doing it since adam and that's my point. men do it and, as pennsylvania rose says, boys will be boys. women do it and they're asking to be harassed or raped or worse.

Disney

08-28-2006, 20:49

a woman should be able to sleep with whomever and then tell him to leave her alone, and that should be that. men should not be allowed in a civilized society to push themselves on women merely by virtue of the fact that they are bigger and stronger. there's no need for a bunch of rules for women to follow to stop harassment. the onus should be on the man to stop harassing.

All actions have consequences. Sex is not simply friction, nor should it be. A woman should live with the consequences of her actions as well as a man. If serial screwing people in a linear community including people who snort oxy-contin leads directly to problems with a reputation, then so be it.

If jumping from one to the next in order to chase off the last one leads to problems, then perhaps Pennsylvania Rose's concept of the 5 steps should be followed BEFORE going to the next one.

The disconnect here is obvious. The AT is not like California, it is alot smaller. The AT community is very small, especially when one is hiking. Staying with one man for weeks or months is fine. So is moving on. But it is bad form and quite rude to snuggle up to the next one as a way to tell the first one it's over. The shelters and hostels are as small as the community. Here's the key: Because of the incredibly close proximity that hikers experience, more stringent social rules apply. When it's 15 people in a shelter sleeping shoulder to shoulder you must put up with things you wouldn't put up with in a hotel room, and be more aware of other peoples feelings and attitudes. You did not hike alone. If that seems like to much to ask the answer is simple. Don't sleep in the shelter.

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 20:51

men should not be allowed in a civilized society to push themselves on women merely by virtue of the fact that they are bigger and stronger. there's no need for a bunch of rules for women to follow to stop harassment. the onus should be on the man to stop harassing.

While I agree with you, you're assuming that human beings are truly civilized. The untruth of this assumption is proven by your previous statement:

a woman should be able to sleep with whomever and then tell him to leave her alone, and that should be that.

In a civilized society, people wouldn't use each other for their own pleasure, then ignore their feelings and discard them on a whim.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 20:52

they've been doing it since adam and that's my point. men do it and, as pennsylvania rose says, boys will be boys. women do it and they're asking to be harassed or raped or worse.

You persist in partially quoting PR.

If that has been the sum total of your experience with men Sunshine then you're hangin' out with the wrong dudes.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 20:53

Well, sb, anyone male or female who uses people as disposable sex toys is going to cause problems within a community as small as the trail community.

only if the trail community is rotten with sexual harassers, which of course it is. witness the "most sexy hiker babe" thread. how demeaning! all of you should be ashamed of yourselves. and all you women laughing and actually agreeing with these sexist pigs -- you should be ashamed too. you have betrayed your gender.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 20:58

only if the trail community is rotten with sexual harassers, which of course it is.

Prove that statement. Back it up. Post a link or article other than the soap opera disguised as news that this thread is about.

Or do you have a personal experience to relate?

Disney

08-28-2006, 21:00

only if the trail community is rotten with sexual harassers, which of course it is. witness the "most sexy hiker babe" thread. how demeaning! all of you should be ashamed of yourselves. and all you women laughing and actually agreeing with these sexist pigs -- you should be ashamed too. you have betrayed your gender.

Is "most sexy hiker gentleman" demeaning?

This isn't a war, there can't be betrayal.

Clearly you didn't actually hike and refuse to listen to the women who did. There are sexual harassers hiking, but the trail is not rotten with them.

More importantly, you espouse the freedom of choice for a woman to choose a man and then discard them at a whim, how is this more acceptable than the entire white blaze community laughing about looks. If you actually read the thread you might find that a very large number of the posts were people poking fun at themselves for not being sexy enough. Again, it would take more than an hour and a half on the site.

Rhonda/Brianne, whatever you want to call yourself, obviously you have alot of anger. If you don't learn to let that go, it will eat you alive.

Pennsylvania Rose

08-28-2006, 21:01

So sorry, sb. We must all be wrong and you are right. Our life experience has not given us any perspective on what is funny and what isn't; how people should treat each other; and what is acceptable behavior in a small community. Please forgive the error of my ways.

Usually I don't involve myself in discussions of this sort because it's as much fun as beating my head against the wall. I just read along, laugh out loud, and get mad at folks' inability to even consider another opinion. My dh would prefer that I spend my evening with him, rather than trying to talk sense into someone who doesn't want my advice. So, I'll go back to lurking...if responding to him smacking my but and calling me honey doesn't mean that I'm giving in to his harassment.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-28-2006, 21:08

So you believe that it is perfectly acceptable to use people as disposable sex toys without have a prior agreement that the sexual liason is that only. I would think both men and women would have a right to protest should someone have sex with them and then dump them like a rock without having made it clear in advance that the entire reason for the relationship was for sex.

Second point, using one man or woman to get rid of another man or woman is no way to conduct relationships. Being honest up front would have saved the author of that article a lot of grief. Yes, I am saying she is partly responsible for her problems.

Third point, exactly what sort of pride or self-respect is necessary to share sex with multiple partners with whom one is barely aquainted? I was a young woman during the 1960-70's free love period and my observation was that this behavior took a terrible toll on people's self-worth.

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 21:14

SB:

Nobody here is condoning violence towards women, and no thru-hiker would tolerate said violence if they witnessed it on the Trail.

That being said, you're missing the main point here: Women are of course entitled to make their own decisions, and this includes highly personal ones.

However, in a small, tightly knit community of people such as thru-hikers, certain behavior is going to make certain people stand out.

One of these behaviors is promiscuity.

By her own admission, the author of the article slept around while on the Trail, and even resumed relations with a guy she'd previously cast off.

She freely acknowledged that when necessary, she used men that were useful to her.

When you read the article carefully, you can see how cold and manipulative this woman really was: When she needed something from a guy---company, safety, accompaniment to a hospital, whatever, when she needed something from a guy, she made liberal use of their presence.

This went for sex, as well.

Of course, when these men were no longer useful or necessary, they were discarded, like used ziplocks.

A careful reading of the article shows a woman awfully carefree with how she treats other people, and the fact is, SB, people that treat others in a casual, flippant, offhand manner, invite others to treat them that way as well.

Respect begets respect.

I daresay this young lady would have had a different time of it if she'd treated others---and treated herself, as well---in a more respectful, dignified fashion.

By behaving in such a way that was bound to make her notorious on the trail, she did indeed encourage men to be more forward than they would've been otherwise. Guys on the Trail viewed her as easy.

Gee, where on earth could they have come up with this conclusion?

Think of all the Westerns you've ever seen: Oddly enough, the aging schoolmarm, the Reverend's wife, the widow who runs the General Store....
gee, how is it they never seem to be bothered by even the rowdiest or rudest cowboy?

But gee, those gals that live above the saloon sure seem to get a lot of attention, don't they?

The same hold true here.

People that treat themselves cheaply and casually invite other people to treat them likewise.

And given the opportunity, some of them will.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 21:18

Third point, exactly what sort of pride or self-respect is necessary to share sex with multiple partners with whom one is barely aquainted? I was a young woman during the 1960-70's free love period and my observation was that this behavior took a terrible toll on people's self-worth.

you make good points. but my larger point is that it doesn't matter what this woman did. there's no excuse for harassment. zero tolerance. otherwise, the woman would always get the blame. who wouldn't? the virgin mary? mother teresa? it would take a saint

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 21:21

When last I checked, neither the Virgin Mary, nor Mother Teresa were widely known in their communities as sexual libertines who happily dispensed their favors to diverse gentlemen they'd only just met.

The difference is siginificant.

Sorry you can't see it.

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 21:25

It has already been suggested that there is no reason to "out" or publicly name the author of this article, or to provide personal information about them.

I suggest to website administrators that the above post be deleted.

rickb

08-28-2006, 21:26

Its been a while since I was 23, but the idea that a person of that age who has 2 or 3 or whatever number of sexual partners over the course of 6 months is some kind of lesser human being seems rather prudish, and out of whack with what I remember.

Of course that would be 6 months of college life, not on the AT.

But go ahead. I suppose the honor of the Trail is important to protect, and some of your characterizations are rather witty.

bfitz

08-28-2006, 21:27

FD, don't worry about it. The main point is the only actual harrasment in her tale occurred on Tray mountain. She pretty much maintains a physical relationship with the guy until she hides from him for a while and then tells him to go away, afetr which she doesn't see him again. Hardly a tale of stalking. As far as peoples' rights, Sunshine is totally right. We only pointed at the fact that this particular tale doesn't reflect any of the points she would like to make very well because the woman involved had no idea how to handle herself and limited social skills. As far as calling you a traitor to your gender, she's just trying to get your goat. As well as using the word traitor to imply an us or them conflict situation regarding gender where one does not (or need not exist). An old trick.

rickb

08-28-2006, 21:28

I agree with 100% with Jack on his last post. And also the others that have the same affect.

The easiest way for those posts to be deleted would be for the people who posted them to do the right thing. Hikerblogger's post made a lot of sense.

Skidsteer

08-28-2006, 21:30

you make good points. but my larger point is that it doesn't matter what this woman did.

It matters a great deal. Personal responsibility and all that jazz.

there's no excuse for harassment. zero tolerance.

Agreed. In this case she contributed in no small measure to blurring the distinction between 'harassment' and 'consensual'

otherwise, the woman would always get the blame. who wouldn't? the virgin mary? mother teresa? it would take a saint[

Huh? Come again? I don't see that apparently. Can you clarify it for me?

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-28-2006, 21:41

SB, there is a bit of sexual behavior on the trail and most people seem to manage to end these relationships without all the rancor and drama the author managed to engender. While I do believe a great deal of sexual harassment is totally uncalled for, I do feel that the author's behavior made it difficult for the men to understand what she did and did not want or expect.

As Jack noted, her behavior gave all the 'thirsty' fellows the idea that she was a willing 'watering hole'.

max patch

08-28-2006, 21:44

After reading the article in question I think is obvious that the author graduated from the Jayson Blair School of Journalism.

And she appears to be following a similar career path.

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 21:44

Geez, Rick, nobody described this person as a lesser life form or anything like it.

What was said was that in a small, insular, tightly bred world such as that of thru-hikers, where single women are few and far between, women who are seen to be sexually active with multiple partners are noticed, talked about, and are viewed differently by their fellow hikers. (They aren't viewed particularly well by their fellow women hikers, by the way, but I don't even want to go into that).

All that was said, Rick, is that certain behavior on the Trail will result in other hikers perceiving you in a certain way--and perhaps treating you in a certain way as a result.

And if you doubt this, then with all due respect, you've been away from the Trail for awhile.

Oh, and in a college town, you'd be right.

Except we're not talkiong about a school with ten thousand students, half of whom are women. We're talking about a much smaller group, and certain behavior is going to make one stand out.

max patch

08-28-2006, 21:47

The easiest way for those posts to be deleted would be for the people who posted them to do the right thing.

Rick, only paying members have that privlege.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 22:52

What was said was that in a small, insular, tightly bred world such as that of thru-hikers, where single women are few and far between, women who are seen to be sexually active with multiple partners are noticed, talked about, and are viewed differently by their fellow hikers. All that was said, Rick, is that certain behavior on the Trail will result in other hikers perceiving you in a certain way--and perhaps treating you in a certain way as a result.

so if you're a woman thru-hiker and you have sex with -- how many? is three enough? -- say, three men on the trail in six months, then it's ok to do what to her? harass her? make crude comments to her? could you slap her? knock her down? where would you draw the line, jack? enlighten me

hikerblogger

08-28-2006, 22:52

I think we've established that the opinions of her alleged oppressors were left out of the story -- which is standard operating procedure for first-person confessionals of this type.

The big however: her detractors do not know her in person and have not walked a single step in her shoes, so while they may attack her credibility to their hearts content, their own credibility must be considered in the context of their distance from the events at hand.

All we know of her is what she has written in several hundred words of a single publication. Everything else is speculation -- which is entertaining, I'll admit, but after awhile it becomes time to change the channel.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 22:53

While I do believe a great deal of sexual harassment is totally uncalled for, I

that's interesting. you think some amount of sexual harassment is ok, then? how much?

Ewker

08-28-2006, 22:56

hey sunshine what part of nashville do you live in? Who do you hike with.

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 23:09

Calm yourself, SB.

Nobody here is---or has---advocated slapping, harassing, insulting, or knocking down anyone.

All that people are saying (and have explained several times now) is that women known to be casual with their sexual favors on the Trail are perhaps going to be viewed, and sometimes treated differently, by some men. Women who choose to live by the quaint principle that one's private life should be just that---private---will in all likelihood be treated more respectfully.

I'm sorry this concept is so difficult for you to grasp, but choir singers tend to get treated differently than chorus girls. Or to put it more bluntly, if someone chooses to dispense their favors as tho they were loose change in a pinball parlor, well sooner or later someone's gonna offer them a handful of quarters and try to ring their bells.

People that comport themselves in a decent fashion generally get that back from most of the people they meet.

People that comport themselves brazenly and become known for this, generally find that this is what they get back.

Or to put it really, realy simply, SB, if you don't want men to think you're a wanton hussy, well the easiest thing to do is try not to be one.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-28-2006, 23:12

SB, I don't think unsolicited comments or advances are OK, but when someone is giving out mixed signals, some people are going to misread the signals as solicitation.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 23:12

Or to put it really, realy simply, SB, if you don't want men to think you're a wanton hussy, well the easiest thing to do is try not to be one.

i see. thank you for your wisdom, big guy. and do these rules also apply to male hikers?

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 23:13

hey sunshine what part of nashville do you live in? Who do you hike with.

thanks for asking, ewker. i'll send you a PM with my phone number. hope you call!!!

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 23:18

Sure the rules apply to males, SB.

One's private life should be just that---private.

People---of either sex---who willfully choose to make themselves notorious via licentious conduct have nobody but themselves to blame when people view them differently as a result.

People who insist on acting cheaply tend to be treated that way.

Ewker

08-28-2006, 23:19

thanks for asking, ewker. i'll send you a PM with my phone number. hope you call!!!

I didn't ask for your number and really don't want it. Sorry to disappoint you.
Just curious who you hike with in the Nashville area.

hammock engineer

08-28-2006, 23:23

i see. thank you for your wisdom, big guy. and do these rules also apply to male hikers?

I ususally don't get invovled in the muddslinging, but I fell the need after reading this thread.

Coming from a colllege atmosphere where there are people that do sleep around with others, people view other people who sleep around this way unfavorably. Notice the non-gender. Both the men and women I know view men and women who sleep around unfavorably.

You seem to have a lot of negative in your posts. Try agruing your position without attacking and people might take you more serious.

TIDE-HSV

08-28-2006, 23:24

is certainly a troll, all right. However, I doubt she (he?) is Brianne. However, it really is getting a kick out of pulling your chains with platitudes...

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 23:26

I ususally don't get invovled in the muddslinging, but I fell the need after reading this thread.

Coming from a colllege atmosphere where there are people that do sleep around with others, people view other people who sleep around this way unfavorably. Notice the non-gender. Both the men and women I know view men and women who sleep around unfavorably.

You seem to have a lot of negative in your posts. Try agruing your position without attacking and people might take you more serious.

oh not enough hugs and kisses in my posts? get real. these are serious issues we're discussing. go away, goodie twoshoes

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 23:27

Disney

08-28-2006, 23:31

is certainly a troll, all right. However, I doubt she (he?) is Brianne. However, it really is getting a kick out of pulling your chains with platitudes...

Could be you're right. But it would be an amazing coincidence that as soon as she started posting here her website was removed. Looks to me like Brienne found out what was happening, took down her website and jumped into the discussion.

What is a little odd as well is this discussion shifted completely from the glaring mistakes of the article and into a more hypothetical realm where it is assumed as a matter of course that the article is true.

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 23:36

Ya know, SB, I'm sure of two things:

1. Nothing I'm going to say could possibly change your mind one iota.

2. I don't particularly care.

You ask me in one post if I feel that decent behavior in regards to one's private life applies to both sexes.

I immediately reply, yes, that's exactly what I think.

To which your reply is "That's bull****!"

Well, believe it or not, SB, if this is the level of your intellectual discourse, I do believe you're not worth debating with.

Good night.

SawnieRobertson

08-28-2006, 23:37

Man, didn't her mama teach her nuthin'?

Kinnickinic

dixicritter

08-28-2006, 23:38

STOP

Now that I have your attention. This thread is getting WAY out of hand.

No one is advocating violence, sexual harrassment or anything of the sort against women here. Everyone needs to take a chill pill right now!

Sunshine Butterfly, you've come in here with a huge chip on your shoulder and started attacking long standing and respected members of this board on your first post. I can tell this topic struck a huge nerve with you but I suggest you step away from the keyboard, take a deep breath, count to ten, then go to the section where the forum posting rules are located and familarize yourself with them.

As for the posting of personal information that has been allowed in the past in certain instances that I am aware of, however, I'm going to get with SGT Rock and Attroll on this one for a joint decision.

Look folks, it's time to play nicely.

I have read the article and I have my thoughts on what I feel about it. Do I think it'll make a difference on this thread.... Nope.

generoll

08-28-2006, 23:40

hmmm, good sense tells me to stay out of this, but every instinct seems to be overuling my good sense. so....

if Jacks comments are total BS then i take it that you DON'T think that ones private life should be kept private?

that you don't think that the way we act has any relationship to the way we are viewed?

I kinda got sucked into the initial outrage at some of the comments I read in the beginning, but then I tend to be a bit on the credulous side. Seems to me that we would all do well to suspend judgement on this writer (deja whatever) unless and until we get both sides.

As a totally irrelevant but personally interesting footnote, I think she may have been a part of the crowd that showed up at the Carter Gap shelter when I was doing a section hike in March of 04. I don't remember anyone by that name, but I do remember a group of young hikers who showed up and shared the shelter with me. As we were full some of the latecomers went to the old shelter. All I remember about any of them was that they all had to take turns telling how worried their parents were at their adventure into the wilderness. I guess I missed all the harrasment. I'll have to be more attentive next time.

hammock engineer

08-28-2006, 23:44

oh not enough hugs and kisses in my posts? get real. these are serious issues we're discussing. go away, goodie twoshoes

Hmm a personal attack.

dixicritter

08-28-2006, 23:46

yep someone's about to go in the special poster's group

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 23:46

Sunshine Butterfly, you've come in here with a huge chip on your shoulder and started attacking long standing and respected members of this board on your first post. I can tell this topic struck a huge nerve with you but I suggest you step away from the keyboard, take a deep breath, count to ten, then go to the section where the forum posting rules are located and familarize yourself with them.

what rules have i broken?

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 23:48

Well, believe it or not, SB, if this is the level of your intellectual discourse, I do believe you're not worth debating with.

Good night.

this isn't a personal attack? there are many others against me in this thread.

dixicritter

08-28-2006, 23:51

what rules have i broken?

"4. You will respect the rights of other users to have their own opinions."

"6. You will not make posts that are inflammatory with the perceived intent to rile people up (i.e. "trolling" and "flaming" are prohibited)."

Need I go on?

Read the rules for yourself... http://whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=agreement

Jack Tarlin

08-28-2006, 23:52

That's eminently true, SB.

And it's mainly because the vast majority of people here, both men and women, feel that you're in the wrong.

sunshine butterfly

08-28-2006, 23:53

"4. You will respect the rights of other users to have their own opinions."

"6. You will not make posts that are inflammatory with the perceived intent to rile people up (i.e. "trolling" and "flaming" are prohibited)."

Need I go on?

Read the rules for yourself... http://whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=agreement

this kind of stuff happens routinely on this site. just because i'm new, you're picking on me. don't worry, i'll go away voluntarily.

dixicritter

08-28-2006, 23:56

this kind of stuff happens routinely on this site. just because i'm new, you're picking on me. don't worry, i'll go away voluntarily.

My first post was not aimed at just you.... chill out. I said the entire thread was getting way out of hand. I'm not picking on you, but don't ask me a question you don't expect an answer to.

generoll

08-28-2006, 23:57

this kind of stuff happens routinely on this site. just because i'm new, you're picking on me. don't worry, i'll go away voluntarily.

You're new? And here I thought you'd been a long time lurker on WB.

hammock engineer

08-28-2006, 23:57

I think everyone has said what they are going to say.

Maybe it's time to shut this thread down.

TIDE-HSV

08-29-2006, 00:00

think you hit it...

Jack Tarlin

08-29-2006, 00:03

TIDE-HSV

08-29-2006, 00:04

I don't think we have yet...

hammock engineer

08-29-2006, 00:10

Actually, most of this thread has been pretty interesting.

I'm for keeping it open awhile.

I'd like to hear the perspectives and thoughts of more women hikers.

Who knows, we might even hear from the author of the original article.

There was some interesting posts from some of the women. I like getting a different point of view.

I just seeing it moving more towards attacks. Then again I keep choosing to view it.

TIDE-HSV

08-29-2006, 00:13

it would be neat if the real authoress were flushed from the brush. Although her perspective is somewhat torqued, she is far cleverer than the pretender...

hikerblogger

08-29-2006, 00:16

Here's what I think: If men in a strip club full of undulating naked women can be taught to keep their hands off the talent, hikers on the AT can learn to behave themselves.

Disney

08-29-2006, 00:47

Well, it was an interesting discussion, even if it did get out of hand. I apologize for my role in that.

That being said, I agree with Jack. I would like to hear from some more of the women on the board.

ed bell

08-29-2006, 01:13

Here's what I think: If men in a strip club full of undulating naked women can be taught to keep their hands off the talent, hikers on the AT can learn to behave themselves.I am confident that hikers have more tact than strip club patrons.:D

SGT Rock

08-29-2006, 01:23

hikerblogger

08-29-2006, 01:52

Ed B: I think if those young, single, skirt-chasin' guys on the trail knew that a 220-pound bouncer would throw their hide out on the pavement if they got out of line, they might develop better manners.

something else I think: anybody who has any energy left for nookie after 25-mile days on the trail with a pack isn't walking fast enough.

Lone Wolf

08-29-2006, 06:51

that's total BS and you know it
So you put out a lot? Betcha do.:)

sourwood

08-29-2006, 08:02

Speaking as a woman who hiked 500+ miles of the AT this summer in the middle of a bunch of thru hikers I have this to say about that article:

First, if I had behaved that way on the trail I sure as ***** would not write an article detailing it. During my weeks on the trail this summer I met and traveled with a variety of men. I never heard or saw any behavior directed towards me or any other woman which I would consider sexual harrassment. Nor did I hear or read about any such incidences. Unless of course you consider Minnie Smith's well known discourses on his requirements for the perfect mate to be such.

It is my opinion that a large part of how you are treated in the world relates to how you behave and treat others. That said, sexual harrassment does happen and is not OK. However, women do have choices as to how to respond to it. Pennsylvania Rose listed several good ways awhile back. I believe that women should have no qualms about hiking alone on the AT. Treat others as you expect to be treated and behave in ways that command the respect and consideration you deserve. That last statement applies to everyone on the trail, not just the women.

wakapak

08-29-2006, 08:14

Okay, I have to say something here too....
I am a woman who has hiked the trail twice. Never did I see or hear of any such harassment out there that the article describes. Like many others here have said, your are perceived by the way you act on the trail. Were there females who had a 'bad' reputation the years i hiked? of course, but it was due to their own personal actions that brought it on, and i never saw or heard of them complaining of "stalkers" and the such.

The trail is a microcosm of the real world....a lot of the same things apply. If a woman was to sleep around in the real world, she would have the same reputation.

I never once felt threatened, harassed or anything of the sort both times I was out there. That article is one person's perception of the trail, and perceptions of things can be way off the mark in this world.

Newb

08-29-2006, 08:28

Okay, I have to say something here too....
I am a woman who has hiked the trail twice. Never did I see or hear of any such harassment out there that the article describes.

Any "harrassment" she described seemed to me to be thinly veiled attempts to explain away the reputation she earned with her hiking group. As far as I can tell she hooked up with several different hikers from within the same general "pod" of thrus. She then dumped them and disabused them of their feelings.

Get this, it's not a difficult concept: Men, too, are sensitive creatures. They have feelings. They're not all drooling, knuckle dragging, mindless semen delivery systems.

Besides, let's look at this group she was with...one of her paramours was in the corner of a shelter snorting Oxycontin? *** is that about? She said it in a matter of fact way that leads me to believe that not only does she not disapprove of it but probably partakes herself.

So, let's see, what we have here is a drug addled **** who probably now regrets her libertine behavior and the damage it's caused in her life who is now blaming others for the bad outcomes she is truly responsible for.

There. I said it.

TOW

08-29-2006, 08:31

I think the author of this article has greatly exaggerated reality.

I'm not gonna say her story is complete bull****. After all, virtually every woman on the Trail, regardless of appearance, has received attention from other hikers, most of whom, of course, are single males.

But there's something wrong about her story.

I've spent a great deal of time on the Trail in the past 12 years. I've met with, talked with, and hiked with hundreds of women hikers. I've read the journals and diaries of dozens more.

And I've never heard a story as dramatic as this one. Ever.

(And incidentally, even in the worst weather I've ever encountered in the first 1500 miles of the Trail (that'd be Shenandoah Nat'l Park in late June of 95and the first two weeks of June in central Virginia in 2003, I've never encountered dangerous rib-deep fords. There are more than a few things about this story that simply don't ring true).Drama sells a story.........whether it is fact or fiction, and in order to tell a story that will sell one has got to add just a wee bit of fiction to keep the readers attention.......This young lady did just that, but I would tend to think once she got to adding a little fiction, she just couldn't stop...

Dharma

08-29-2006, 08:42

it's a feature article, it's one persons experience.
... that most everyone has judged as "wrong". The story has no rightness or wrongness unless you put it there. Why are many of you having trouble accepting this? Ask yourselves. Hmm?

There have been calls for this feature to be more balanced with statistics that prove Deja's experience is just a blip on the radar and not something anyone would expect on the trail. Have you identified yourself with the Appalachian Trail a wee bit too much? A black-eye for it is a kick in the crotch for you? Is this what's going on here? Many of you are really upset she wrote this ("the article should not have been published"). She's not talking about you but you react like she is. (and also playing victim to it)

Take this clue from someone who edits newspaper copy for a living: everything in the article in question is most likely 100 percent true -- from the perspective of the writer.
...
Any story that causes this much furor must be doing something right, but what that something is depends on the perspective of the reader. Some defend the trail, some defend the storyteller, some sit on the sidelines and chuckle at how little guys & gals of our species have learned after living together for 100,000 years.

Having said all this: it's still a story, that is, a narrative imposed on a collection of events. A story, not THE story.
Nuff said?

I think the best people to comment on the validity of the article are people from 04 who knew her and hiked with her.
Yeah, I hiked with Deja in the beginning of my hike. She was a strong hiker and pulled ahead quickly. We kept in touch via email mostly. Other hikers know her better, but I haven't recognized a name in this thread so far that's had any time hiking with her.

So to clear up a few questions:
Sly, all the trail names were changed except hers. I know who's she's talking about though.

In 04 there was one southern/mid-atlantic stream crossing that was way-over the banks when I got there and read at the next shelter it was extremely high a day or two before. So, a short hiker could have experienced waist-high water. And, she was in front of me at that point.

How valid was what she wrote? That's what everyone wants to know. Because... so much depends on my answer.... right? I will either validate Deja and invalidate most of you or vice versa.

I will say this: Yes, she was stalked, persued, pink-blazed on the trail. We create our own experiences in life. This was hers and y'all want to take it away from her and say it isn't true, isn't accurate, or "right" enough. Also I see many wanting it to mean something, when it is just a person's trail experience. Emotionally charged? Yes, look at all the movement it made on these and other forums. In that alone it was worth her writing it.

In closing:

The big however: her detractors do not know her in person and have not walked a single step in her shoes, so while they may attack her credibility to their hearts content, their own credibility must be considered in the context of their distance from the events at hand.

Newb

08-29-2006, 08:45

Of course, I love to troll for controversy.

Frolicking Dinosaurs

08-29-2006, 08:53

Thanks for coming in with some firsthand knowledge, Dharma.

generoll

08-29-2006, 08:59

a question, Dharma. if she pulled ahead of you and your only communication was via email, how do you KNOW that she was 'stalked'? as I mentioned earlier, I was at the Carter Gap shelter the night that her hiking partner at the time states that they stopped there. the only thing i recall about that night was a full shelter and some late arrivals that may have slept under the shelter and wind and sleet that must have been well into the 50 mph range in gusts.

nothing untoward happened or was mentioned at that time, so either everyone was on exceptionally good behavior that night or perhaps we have a case of perception outrunning reality.

TOW

08-29-2006, 09:26

I think everyone here ought to write a letter of their opinion to the Editor of the Hartford Advocate, [email protected] ([email protected])

TOW

08-29-2006, 09:35

I've thrown my two cents in about this article and I'm sticking with my opinion. That being said, I do not agree with exposing the identity of the author. Finding out is one thing, posting it is another. I think it's bad form.I disagree, if she is going to post this story as fact, then she needs to put herself up on the block and defend it!

hikerblogger

08-29-2006, 09:37

Just a couple more things to think about:

1) Please try to accept the possibility that everything she wrote is true, IN HER MIND. She's writing about things that happened two summers ago, and any lawyer will tell you that even eyewitness accounts are unreliable. She wrote this article for pay and hopes to write other articles for pay. If you write articles full of factual errors the publication will not hire you again.

2) Attacking the character of the messenger does not make the message go away. It just makes you feel better.

3) People find what they are looking for.

SavageLlama

08-29-2006, 09:41

Wow.. the title on the homepage of the Advocate's website is so slanted: "SEX AND STALKING ALONG THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL"

http://www.ctnow.com/custom/nmm/hartfordadvocate/

...should be more like "Dirty **** Sleeps Her Way To Katahdin"

The one good thing is that you know she tried to sell this article to Backpacker and the other, more respectable pubs she's previously written for - and it's good to see they didn't buy this piece of trash.

She's obviously trying pretty hard to get a Hunter Thomson-style reputation but it clearly backfired.

TOW

08-29-2006, 09:51

Ewker

08-29-2006, 10:02

Just for future reference. I would not spend a lot of time arguing with Sunshine Butterfly on this. It is very likely we are dealing with a person that was already put on notice under another name. Strange how someone from Nashville has a Maryland IP address that is the same as another person on this board from Maryland.

I noticed that this person was saying they were from the Nashville area. That is why I was trying to find out who he/she/it hiked with. I don't have access to the IP address like you do.

TOW

08-29-2006, 10:05

Dharma

08-29-2006, 10:18

a question, Dharma. if she pulled ahead of you and your only communication was via email, how do you KNOW that she was 'stalked'?
I mean no disrespect here, but you're trying to hook me into a mental argument... and I'm not playing that. You can accept what I say or not.

I was at the Carter Gap shelter the night that her hiking partner at the time states that they stopped there. the only thing i recall about that night was a full shelter and some late arrivals that may have slept under the shelter and wind and sleet that must have been well into the 50 mph range in gusts.

nothing untoward happened or was mentioned at that time, so either everyone was on exceptionally good behavior that night or perhaps we have a case of perception outrunning reality.

Interesting, I was there too it seems, but I don't recall the weather. Alas, I didn't journal the particulars about this day. This look familiar? http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=43827

Ewker

08-29-2006, 10:21

I know the good Captain

Miss Janet

08-29-2006, 11:49

There are always 4 sides to a story. Her side, his side, what she thinks he is thinking, and what he thinks she is thinking... good communication skills are needed to keep all of these as close to reality as possible. Yes, even on the AT, Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars!

I really think Deja had some difficult moments during her hike that she precieved were caused by some of the individuals around her. She was way in the front of most of the women and I am sure she found few female allies... but what about the male allies that would have stood up to any of this bad behavior from the other guys? I know several that she hiked with that were great guys and real gentlemen, Darhma, included! But why did she choose to hike with the people that she says abused her in some way or damaged her hike?

I think that her experience must have been VERY different from most of the thousands of other female hikers that I know. While, of course, I have seen or been told of certain instances, they are usually dealt with pretty quickly and don't flavor the female hikers entire hike. If completely true, why was her experience so very different from the majority of other female hikers?

My experience with the men on the trail are with the several hundred I meet every year either getting shuttles or as guests in my home or at hiker get togethers. I have seen way below the number of harrassing instances you might expect from a group of men all thrown together say at a football game... (ever heard the comments aimed at cheerleaders?). I am not saying that this behavior is ever ok. I am saying that I have seen so very little of it on the AT. I still think that the AT is a safe and female friendly place for women to be. My daughters were raised with the house full of hikers for weeks at a time... they did not have problems with harrassment here at home or remember hearing much of it... but in the hallways at the high school they sure did!

*** Oxycontin is still a problem in the rural towns of the southern Appalachians... but I have never seen or even heard of a hiker using it on the trail. Is it possible that "oxycontin" is a tag word that would insure the article was hit more often in searches?***

bfitz

08-29-2006, 11:54

Sunshine Butternuts is correct about everything she said regarding what is acceptable behavior from men. Which is basically to go away when asked (after I'm finished with you, in this case) The fact that Deja Vu slept around doesn't justify any type of harrassment or unwanted solicitation from men. BUT she claims to have been harrassed, when in the story, she clearly stays with the "harrasser", has long conversations during the day and sleeps with him at night. Clearly, they had a strange relationship, but it was not harrassment or stalking, because when she cuts off the physical reciprocation and actually says to his face that he should leave her alone she never sees him again. So Sunshine, while you are 100% right about your generalized statements about how no amount of harrassment is acceptable regardless of the behavior of the woman, that isn't what happened in the story, and no one here is advocating any opinion different than yours. However, Frolicking Dinosaurs "willing watering-hole" comment also makes a lot of sense. Anyone with any would know that a little bit of savior-faire could have helped deja vu avoid most of the unpleasantries she described, and you know it as well.

The only harrassment in the story was on Tray mountain. Those guys were jerks.

Ewker

08-29-2006, 11:55

The only harrassment in the story was on Tray mountain. Those guys were jerks.

you are assuming that was true

SGT Rock

08-29-2006, 11:58

Sunshine Butternuts is correct about everything she said...

As I said. Y'all may want to disregard everything Sunshine Butterfly said. Based on IP and past actions it is almost certain she is a he. And he is a troll.

hikerblogger

08-29-2006, 12:39

Something that happens all the time in the news biz:

Writer pitches a "great" story to editor -- editor puts designers and graphics people to work on illustrating the story, sets aside a huge bunch of space in the publication to print the story, then has the story handed in.

In this case his "sex and stalking on the trail" story turns out to be not so cut and dried and that the author behaved in ways that undercut his preferred story: innocent babe in the woods preyed upon by knuckle-dragging hiker fiends.

But he can't NOT print the story by now because he's got all this time and effort devoted to it, and he has no story to take its place to fill up all that space he has set aside for it.

Then he goes into "here's her story, let the readers make up their mind" mode.

Ambiguity makes for great literature because it lets the readers fill in the blanks. It's less satisfying in a journalistic setting where there is at least some presumption of truth, veracity, accuracy, etc.

generoll

08-29-2006, 12:43

I mean no disrespect here, but you're trying to hook me into a mental argument... and I'm not playing that. You can accept what I say or not.

Interesting, I was there too it seems, but I don't recall the weather. Alas, I didn't journal the particulars about this day. This look familiar? http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=43827

Nope, I don't recall any of the faces or names. I gathered from reading Sugar Daddies journal that they were at the shelter on the night in question. Check out this journal for a description of the weather.

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=55082

Not to drag anyone else into this, perhaps I got a date wrong or the wrong date was posted in another journal, but I do remember waking up in the night and seeing the sleet blowing through the cracks in the shelter, even though it's back was to the prevailing winds.

As far as 'trying to hook you into a mental argument', I simply suggested that your only knowledge of the alleged harassment is second hand, i.e. her word for it. Or are you verifying her charges from personal observation?

sliderule

08-29-2006, 14:20

It's hard to imagine that Deja could not have solved her problems with a bit of cunning and operational deception. Especially considering that she was such a strong hiker.

Pest

08-29-2006, 14:39

Pest

08-29-2006, 15:01

Honey, I've been on the AT for 20 years and have never seen anything like this broad is describing. It's a non-issue. She likes sex from men but doesn't want anything else. Big deal. She should quit ***n guys, no?

There are a lot of guys who like sex with no commitments too. If she did not like sex she would be called frigid. No way for a woman to win.

*** are cavemen doing in a female hikers forum?

Lone Wolf

08-29-2006, 15:03

There are a lot of guys who like sex with no commitments too. If she did not like sex she would be called frigid. No way for a woman to win.

*** are cavemen doing in a female hikers forum?
This is a GENERAL forum, cavewoman. Are you a man-hater too?:)

dixicritter

08-29-2006, 15:03

Yes it is so much easier to blame the victim . If a man acted this way on the trail sleeping with numerous women I doubt people would be putting him down like this.

If a man acted this way I'd still call him for what he was, a guy that couldn't keep it in his pants. She did what she did because she CHOSE to do it. She didn't HAVE to do it. She made some mistakes SO WHAT? We all make mistakes, we're all human afterall. However, owning our mistakes makes all the difference. That's where she's upsetting people with this article. She's not owning her mistakes, she's blaming everyone else for them. Don't like what I'm saying, sorry that's how I see it.

Why do so may men post on the female forum anyway? It kinda ruins the spirit of the forum.

The female forum here at WB is a public forum that is open to all posters as long as they conduct themselves with decorum. In other words, as long as the guys behave as gentlemen and not Neanderthals they are more than welcome to post there. There is a sticky at the top of the forum that explains it's use, please take a moment to read it.

Also I think better advice (if you are going to lie) would be to say that you have a husband rather then you have a boyfriend.

I really don't have anything to add to this, other than to say it's easy to tell if a woman wears wedding rings on a regular basis or not. Just a thought.

SGT Rock

08-29-2006, 15:04

Actually he would be blamed if he did this and then went around complaining about all the women hating him he left behind. And your URL you tried to post didn't make it: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-24,GGGL:en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=victim&spell=1

I have known a guy that had a woman stalker, he entered into the relationship knowing ahead of time she wasn't balanced and used illegal drugs, but went into it anyway. So yes he brought it on himself and he caught hell for it. And the hell he caught was a lot more than this.

Stalking is bad either way, but this article makes the AT sound like a stalker fest which in everyone around here experience it is not. It paints an unrealistic picture of the AT that may do more to aversely influence women worried about safety without any just cause. Women already come to this site on a regular basis concerned about their safety, add some gas to the small fire they already have by telling them they will have to fight off drug snorting stalkers for 6 months will not help and is also not true. For real stalking and real victims of stalking this is a disservice to call this stalking.

And it has been my experience that guys actually tend to dog another guy faster than they would a woman for this and also do not want to come to a guys defense when he acts like an ass. This is even in a mostly male environment I deal with daily. Sure we talk about sex, but someone that does this sort of thing ain't right and we know it.

I think what most of the men and women here have said is this is all a one sided account. If a guy wrote an article that he had 7 insane stalking women on the trail he would also be called to task for it. No one wants to blame a victim, they just don't think this is a totally accurate account of what went on that year on the trail based on past experience.

I tend to agree about the women forum needing to be for women. Except a couple of times where a woman got on that forum and asked a general question that seemed to include an open request to women and men, add to that a man posted a thread there to direct women here because he thought they may want to see it. I have supported making it a members only forum for a while. But as we have seen with S Butterfly, a guy can log on and make an ID as a girl. Which is worse, a guy posting to the girl forum to give advise, or a guy posing as a girl to somehow manipulate people?

Pest

08-29-2006, 15:21

SGT Rock

08-29-2006, 15:24

Actually pest, SB was a troll, A male troll.

SGT Rock

08-29-2006, 15:29

You know, this thread is turning into a troll fest, I think it is time to stop it.