View Full Version : Lightweight Pot Option?
LostInSpace
08-27-2006, 17:06
As a lightweight pot option, has anyone considered using a 5"x3" or 6"x3" high aluminum cake pan for boiling water? (See link (http://www.cooksworld.com/Merchant3/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CW&Product_Code=PRD63&Category_Code=cakepans).) I am curious about the weight of one of these. It seems that it could be pretty lightweight. The 6" diameter could improve the efficiency of heat transfer over pots with a smaller diameter.
Note, this is not the removable-bottom pan, which Parrish also produces.
SGT Rock
08-28-2006, 08:40
It could work. what is the weight and capacity?
Amigi'sLastStand
08-28-2006, 08:55
Rock or JJ or blackbishop or someone, it is a baking pan and says uncoated aluminum. For the price, I would have to assume it would not be Al-Ti or A-Ni. If its straight Al, then its probably useful up to 475-600 for baking, but not capable of 2700F ( max butane/propane temp in perfect conditions ) that a canister stove can theoretically put out. Am I wrong on this? Just a thought.
Amigi'sLastStand
08-28-2006, 08:58
http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/al.html
Yeah, no way it could stand up to a canister or ScreamHeavy International:D if its pure Al.
SGT Rock
08-28-2006, 09:09
But we use alcohol. My aluminum can bodies stand up to the heat of the stove flame. Couldn't such a pan be fine for low output alcohol stoves?
LiS is talking about boiling water - not baking - it will be fine for boiling water cause of the temp never getting higher than boiling point of water
I was under the impression that aluminum is not healthy to cook in at all.
True or False?
SGT Rock
08-28-2006, 10:52
False. That was proven quite a while back.
Aluminum is one of the most common trace element anyway. Simply avoiding cooking in it would not do much to decrease your contact with it.
Thanks SGT for the info, dont' want to be misinformed!
Footslogger
08-28-2006, 11:03
Here's a piece on Aluminum ...
'Slogger
ALUMINUM COOKWARE
Aluminum is in air, water, soil, plants, animals, foods and household products. More than half of all cookware sold today is made of aluminum, usually coated with nonstick finishes or treated in some way to harden the structure and make it more scratch-resistant.
There is no evidence that aluminum causes Alzheimer’s disease as was once suggested by researchers. However, for those who would like to avoid exposure to aluminum, the best way would be to avoid antacids containing aluminum and to use deodorants (which generally do not contain aluminum) rather than antiperspirants.
Many over-the-counter medicines contain aluminum. One antacid tablet can contain 50 milligrams of aluminum and a buffered aspirin tablet may contain about 10 to 20 milligrams of aluminum.
In contrast, a person using uncoated aluminum pans for all cooking and food storage every day would take in an estimated 3.5 milligrams of aluminum daily. However, storing highly acidic or salty foods such as tomato sauce, rhubarb or sauerkraut in aluminum pots may cause more aluminum than usual to enter the food and is not recommended. (These foods will also cause pitting on the pot’s surface.)
ANODIZED ALUMINUM COOKWARE
The anodization process hardens the surface of aluminum cookware making it non-stick, scratch-resistant and easy to clean. Manufacturers claim that a final stage in the anodization process seals the aluminum, preventing any leaching into food. This cookware doesn’t react to acidic foods, so these pots and pans are top choices for cooking rhubarb and sauces with tomato, wine and lemon juice.
:D
As a lightweight pot option, has anyone considered using a 5"x3" or 6"x3" high aluminum cake pan for boiling water? ......................................etc,etc,etc, .....................
get off the wallet & spend a few extra bucks for the Ti pot...it'll last forever & wont burn-thru like the thin-aluminum pot your talking about.:D
hikerjohnd
08-28-2006, 12:14
get off the wallet & spend a few extra bucks for the Ti pot...it'll last forever & wont burn-thru like the thin-aluminum pot your talking about.
Agreed - if you can't swing the extra $20 for Ti, then sell a pint of blood. You'll help someone and be able to buy a cool cookpot!
SGT Rock
08-28-2006, 12:43
Hey, we are dirtbagging here with this. No stinking titanium products qualify for dirtbag gear.
LostInSpace
08-28-2006, 12:58
It could work. what is the weight and capacity?
Filled to the brim:
6"x3" high = 1.39L (used at 80% capacity: 1 L)
5"x3" high = 0.97L (used at 80% capacity: 3/4 L)
6"x2" high = 0.93L (used at 80% capacity: 3/4 L)
5"x2" high = 0.64L (used at 80% capacity: 1/2 L)
I don't know the weight. That's the primary reason why I was asking, but I wasn't as clear as I could have been.
Rock or JJ or blackbishop or someone, it is a baking pan and says uncoated aluminum. For the price, I would have to assume it would not be Al-Ti or A-Ni. If its straight Al, then its probably useful up to 475-600 for baking, but not capable of 2700F ( max butane/propane temp in perfect conditions ) that a canister stove can theoretically put out. Am I wrong on this? Just a thought.
Most bakeware is alloyed with something to give it more rigidity that pure Al. I would never put an empty pan on an electric or gas stove at home, so I don't plan to do it while backpacking.
But we use alcohol. My aluminum can bodies stand up to the heat of the stove flame. Couldn't such a pan be fine for low output alcohol stoves?
Lightweight aluminum pot is fine for any type of stove as long as the pot contains fluid.
get off the wallet & spend a few extra bucks for the Ti pot...it'll last forever & wont burn-thru like the thin-aluminum pot your talking about.
I suppose one could throw that reason in the face of every backpacker that ever used a Gease Pot. :rolleyes:
My choice has nothing to do with money. Conceivably, a 6”x3” pan with a homemade lid could weigh less than a 1.3L Ti pot and lid. For example, a Mirro Comet Saucepan, 1-quart, with the handle removed weighs less than three ounces. A 6” diameter pot can work better that a pot with a lesser diameter. Al transfers heat better than Ti.
LostInSpace
08-28-2006, 13:08
Hey, we are dirtbagging here with this. No stinking titanium products qualify for dirtbag gear.
Right on !!!!!
I recently purchased 2 aluminum cake pans that are 6 inch in dia. and 2 in deep.. Name brand Wilton. (http://www.wilton.com/store/site/product.cfm?id=3E30AE35-475A-BAC0-5B68F137E1F8854E&fid=5A88940A-475A-BAC0-5E3849DF1A36A6C9)
They look as heavy duty as the Parrish ones.
The pan weighs 84 grams/2.96 ounces.
I've had my eye on them for some time because they are really nice but they needed a lid. Recently I accquired a bunch of used boyscout pots and pans and castiron grills etc. Among the stuff was some lids. Two of them were the correct size for the cake pans so off I went and bought the pans. They sell them at "Michaels" crafts store. Price: $5.95
A Kmart grease pot weighs 69 grams/2.43 ounces(minus lid)
Boil times are the same for both pots, 5 min. I used my 2x2 stove with 1 ounce of fuel. After the boil was achieved(using half the fuel, 1/2 ounce) I snuffed out the burner with the lid (burner still has 1/2 ounce of fuel left in it. After it is cooled I screw the lid on and it's ready for your next use. The remaining fuel is completely absorbed by the fiberglass wick making it leak proof till it's next use.
LostInSpace
08-28-2006, 22:38
From what I have read on some of the cooking/baking Web sites, I got the impression that the Wilton pans may be made of a tad heavier guage aluminum than the Parrish pans. The Parrish brand offers a greater variety of sizes at a little lower price. www.bakedeco.com (http://www.bakedeco.com/dept.asp?sortby=&id=103&pagestart=4&manufacid=&price=), but this site has a minimum order of $25, so it's not so good to order from.
With a lightweight homemade lid, that still puts the weight under that of a 1.3L Ti Gucci pot.
Amigi'sLastStand
08-28-2006, 23:10
LiS is talking about boiling water - not baking - it will be fine for boiling water cause of the temp never getting higher than boiling point of water
Hey HOI.
Nah, I was thinking of the contact point of between the flame and the pot.
If it is just boiling water, I think it would work, but would like to know how long it would last. Sooner or later the Al will get thin and crack from the heat.
Why not just cut a small coffee can in a third, use high temp duct tape to safe the sharp edge, and use that. It's not as light as this, but light enough and awfully durable. I've melted lead in one and they dont pop or break in under that heat. Cheap too!:D
Just Jeff
08-28-2006, 23:24
Get a Foster's can or a Heinekin can. 3/4 oz (22 g) and you get a free beer with it.
http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearAlcoholStove.html
Hey HOI.
Nah, I was thinking of the contact point of between the flame and the pot.
If it is just boiling water, I think it would work, but would like to know how long it would last. Sooner or later the Al will get thin and crack from the heat.
Why not just cut a small coffee can in a third, use high temp duct tape to safe the sharp edge, and use that. It's not as light as this, but light enough and awfully durable. I've melted lead in one and they dont pop or break in under that heat. Cheap too!:D
They weigh basically the same as a heavy ti pot and they are free. If you use one of the newer side cutting can openers there is no sharp lip. Also I was able to make a nice fitting lid with the can top with no modification. Also the can top is not sharp with the side cutting opener.
As a lightweight pot option, has anyone considered using a 5"x3" or 6"x3" high aluminum cake pan for boiling water? (See link (http://www.cooksworld.com/Merchant3/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CW&Product_Code=PRD63&Category_Code=cakepans).) I am curious about the weight of one of these. It seems that it could be pretty lightweight. The 6" diameter could improve the efficiency of heat transfer over pots with a smaller diameter.
Note, this is not the removable-bottom pan, which Parrish also produces.
I own several cake pans and based on their thickness. I think this pan would be light but it would still weigh more then a grease pot.
My current favorite pot http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009PUR4A/sr=8-1/qid=1156834814/ref=adventureangling
is the one that comes out of a coleman mess kit. It holds two cups and is shallow and wide, and only weighs 3.5 ounces. You don't need to use an oven mitt or a bandanna with it. The pot has a bail handle so it could be use over a fire. The lid has a plastic knob. The bail is sturdy enough that you can pour liquids out of the pot while holding onto the bail with minimum spillage.
The mess kit that it comes in only cost $6.00. I got mine (plus a stove that I sold on ebay for a huge profit) at a second hand store for less then $6.00.
Hey HOI.
Nah, I was thinking of the contact point of between the flame and the pot.
If it is just boiling water, I think it would work, but would like to know how long it would last. Sooner or later the Al will get thin and crack from the heat.
Can't say as I have ever heard of aluminum getting thin and cracking from the heat - I've been using the same Heineken can for boiling water for the last 3 years and the metal is as good as new except for some dents around the open end.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-29-2006, 08:11
My aluminum pot (5 qt) is 35+ yo and except for having a black bottom and some scratches on the inside is in great shape. No thin spots or cracks. This pot has probably cooked about 2,000 meals - maybe more.
LostInSpace
08-29-2006, 17:14
Five quarts is a big pot! Do Dino's eat that much?
LostInSpace
08-29-2006, 17:32
Zelph,
Based on your weight of a 6x2 pan, a 6x3 pan should weigh 3.95 oz because it has 1.33 times the surface area. So, as pot for boiling a liter of water, a small coffee can would weigh less at about 3.5 oz, but not necessarily be as efficient becuase of the coffee can's dimensions and material.
I'm currently using a 5x4 Al pot with bail to boil water for two people. It weighs 5 oz without lid, but I don't need a pot lifter.
With a coffee can, I punched four holes just under the rim and pushed two tent stakes, which I was already carrying, through to make a handle. That works great, and I don't need a pot lifter.
Lost
LostInSpace and Pest!!!!!
The 6 inch in dia. and 2 in deep.. pan weighs 84 grams/2.96 ounces.
A Kmart grease pot weighs 69 grams/2.43 ounces(minus lid)
Look at the difference in weight!!!! The cake pan weighs more.
Boil times were the same!!!!!
How much does that extra 1/2 ounce mean to the both of you?????
You say the Parrish ones are lighter, that should bring the weight close to the same as the grease pot. Make the purchase from Parish, buy acouple extra pans for the wife and kids, girlfriends whatever you have todo to justify buying Parrish.
If I were you I'd buy a grease pot.:)
I'm a happy camper with my Wiltons and my grease pots and my scout pots and my Hiny pot :banana
and my wickitised stoves:banana
Just noticed your post Lost!!!!!
I've given you some input on my little experience with the cake pans I have. I have'nt any experience with coffee cans:o
Good Luck On Your Pursuit!!!!!
LostInSpace
08-29-2006, 19:48
Zelph, I hear ya! I have not been able to find a grease pot at K-Mart. The K-Mart near me has just redone the whole store, and it is a mess!!!
Thanks for your input.
LostInSpace
08-29-2006, 22:42
Why not just cut a small coffee can in a third, use high temp duct tape to safe the sharp edge, and use that. It's not as light as this, but light enough and awfully durable. I've melted lead in one and they dont pop or break in under that heat. Cheap too!:D
Well, because I have some coffee cans and aluminum duct tape on hand, I decided to try it. (A Dermel tool with a cut-off wheel made it easier to cut down the can than with tin snips.) The resulting "pot", 3.5 inches high to boil 0.5L of water, weighs 2 oz without lid. It could work pretty good boiling water for one.
One downside is that it won't hold stuff I stored in a wider pot (cup and small plastic bowl) ... just an alcohol stove ... so, it is not as efficient in terms of pack space.
Lanthar Mandragoran
08-30-2006, 14:45
Hey HOI.
Nah, I was thinking of the contact point of between the flame and the pot.
If it is just boiling water, I think it would work, but would like to know how long it would last. Sooner or later the Al will get thin and crack from the heat.
Why not just cut a small coffee can in a third, use high temp duct tape to safe the sharp edge, and use that. It's not as light as this, but light enough and awfully durable. I've melted lead in one and they dont pop or break in under that heat. Cheap too!:D
Amigi
You're mixing up a couple of different Heat Transfer Concepts. HOI is correct, the average temp of the aluminum is never going to get much higher than 212 F due to it's thinness and excellent heat transfer coeffecient. Also, as a corrolary, there is NOT going to be a high delta T between the inside and outside skin temps otherwise the heat transfer to the liquid would actually exceed the heat output of the burner*.
The pot and water can only absorb heat so fast from the burner... if you crank the burner up to full bore it is NOT going to overheat the outside sking of the aluminum, it's simply going to spew (aka waste) heat to the atmosphere... IF you had a butane torch that concentrated all of the multi-thousand BTU output to a tiny point you MIGHT be able to damage the aluminum while it had water in it. However, with a typical burner, the gasses are going to be at a much lower temp when they hit the the aluminum and are not going to be able to transfer heat (heat transfer via convection is weak in this case due to the gasses being able to get 'around' the pot) fast enough to raise the skin temp significantly.
Being thinner actually HELPS the pot stand up to high temps as it reduces the delta T across the pot significantly and prevent the outer skin temp from getting too high.
Bottom Line: An aluminum pot, full of water, is never going to 'burn through'. An empty bot will. Now, if you tried to boil water in a cast aluminum dutch oven using an MSR pocket rocket... then you might have a chance of damaging the outer surface of the aluminum.
*Without using actual multipliers... Heat Flux = delta T / heat transfer resistance (heat transfer resistance = 1 / heat transfer coeffecient)
SGT Rock
08-30-2006, 14:50
i don't know what he just said, but I will have to agree :o