Sending back busted stuff

[Blissful]

Well, spent the day at the PO it seemed, ha ha, sending back busted stuff - a Princeton Tech Aurora Headlamp that won't work anymore and the battery cover is coming off and two Mountain Hardwear stuff sacks for our Kiva tents that ripped out. Oh, and my son's Samsung MP3 player he wants to take on his thru. Be anxious to see how the warranties work on all this stuff. Anyone have warranty issues at all with outdoor companies, how it worked out. Are they eager to please?

[TwoForty]

Weird, my batter cover started coming off on my 4 year old Aurora just a few weeks ago. I was hoping to use that as an excuse to replace it!

[Shutterbug]

Well, spent the day at the PO it seemed, ha ha, sending back busted stuff - a Princeton Tech Aurora Headlamp that won't work anymore and the battery cover is coming off and two Mountain Hardwear stuff sacks for our Kiva tents that ripped out. Oh, and my son's Samsung MP3 player he wants to take on his thru. Be anxious to see how the warranties work on all this stuff. Anyone have warranty issues at all with outdoor companies, how it worked out. Are they eager to please?

I just returned my Go Lite backpack. It was coming apart after one 4-day trip. Part of the damage was done when I took a bad fall, but part of it was clearly a manufacturing defect. When I sent it back, I offered to take responsibility for repair of the rip that resulted from the fall, but pointed out that there were some defects that couldn't have resulted from the fall. They sent me a new pack and didn't mention the damage that was my fault. I couldn't ask for more.

[LostInSpace]

For years I would not buy any The North Face products because their customer service really jerked me around about fixing a problem I had with an inexpensive daypack. Last year I pulled out my old TNF VE-24 tent, set it up, and tested it with a hose. The rain-fly had delaminated. The VE-24 had the TNF “unconditional” lifetime warranty … the current lifetime warranty has conditions and exceptions. I made photo copies of the hang tags and warranty, which I kept, and sent them with a nice letter to the president of TNF USA. I got a letter from a customer service manager offering to exchange my old VE-24 for a new 2006 VE-25. When I talked to her on the phone, I got no argument whatsoever. That restored TNF’s credibility in my eyes.

I returned a pair of top-of-the-line boat shoes to Timberland a few years ago. They were little used, but the sipped soles had hardened so they were unsafe on a boat. Twice I wrote letters to Jeffrey Swartz, the president of Timberland. No response from anyone. Only after I filed a complaint with the NH Better Business Bureau, I got a letter from the Timberland attorney. Once I signed a release they would send me a new pair of shoes. They sent me cheap discontinued model that wasn’t even equivalent to what I returned. I will NEVER buy a Timberland product again.

I take care of what I buy, and warranties and customer service affect my buying decisions. So, when I have a legitimate problem, I return the merchandise.

[Litefoot]

I used a GoLite Land pack for 1,500 miles of my 2002 thru-hike. I knew there was something wrong with it because it rode too low on my back. As it turned out, the hip-belt had been sewn on in the wrong place. GoLite gave everyone who had purchased the pack a full refund. The Land pack promptly disappeared and was replaced by the Trek pack which is virtually identical.

[tiamalle]

For years I would not buy any The North Face products because their customer service really jerked me around about fixing a problem I had with an inexpensive daypack. Last year I pulled out my old TNF VE-24 tent, set it up, and tested it with a hose. The rain-fly had delaminated. The VE-24 had the TNF “unconditional” lifetime warranty … the current lifetime warranty has conditions and exceptions. I made photo copies of the hang tags and warranty, which I kept, and sent them with a nice letter to the president of TNF USA. I got a letter from a customer service manager offering to exchange my old VE-24 for a new 2006 VE-25. When I talked to her on the phone, I got no argument whatsoever. That restored TNF’s credibility in my eyes.

I returned a pair of top-of-the-line boat shoes to Timberland a few years ago. They were little used, but the sipped soles had hardened so they were unsafe on a boat. Twice I wrote letters to Jeffrey Swartz, the president of Timberland. No response from anyone. Only after I filed a complaint with the NH Better Business Bureau, I got a letter from the Timberland attorney. Once I signed a release they would send me a new pair of shoes. They sent me cheap discontinued model that wasn’t even equivalent to what I returned. I will NEVER buy a Timberland product again.

I take care of what I buy, and warranties and customer service affect my buying decisions. So, when I have a legitimate problem, I return the merchandise.It is sad but smart people who invent nice things don't
know how to explain directions.They rip off the first few to pay for material to put this illusion in motion by charging a high price for their brain storm.
98% of the common people break it because it is made of pure s**t material like crap that comes from China.If I gathered up 96.9 percent of
the crap I saw for sale at trail days and put it in a dumpster.All it was fit for was to take up space in a local landfill.Friends and fellow hikers"be careful".
this crap is for sale everywhere.Don't get ripped off.Check it out thorough.
Ask other hikers if it works.I hate seeing hikers get ripped off.PS "jack your
shirt's great from trail days".Wearing it,as I said on my vidio."It helped me
finish the approach trail.

[sliderule]

I have a Sierra Designs tent that delaminated. I emailed SD about the problem. They told me to recoat it myself. Maybe they call that "self-service customer service."

[LostInSpace]

I have a Sierra Designs tent that delaminated. I emailed SD about the problem. They told me to recoat it myself. Maybe they call that "self-service customer service."

Unfortunately, today almost all large tent manufacturers include an exception for delamination in their warranties, and they won't take a position about how long you should be able to use a tent without it delaminating ... 10 days, 10 years, or something in between. I suppose one advantage of tents made from silnylon is that it can't delaminate.

[BigToe]

I had a pair of Asolo boots that fell apart just after the year warranty was up (on a very wet Vermont section hike). When I got back home, I called and wrote Asolo - they ultimately replaced the boots with a brand new more expensive pair.

A Platypus bladder developed a crack - their lifetime warranty meant that I could just go to Campmor (I'm lucky enough to live close by) and exchange it for a new one.

A Granite Gear sil-nylon stuff sack pull string frayed after light use. GG promptly sent a new one.

In the last few years, me or my sons have had problems with a couple of sets of trekking poles, a tent, a pair of trailrunners. In all of these cases, Campmor or EMS took them back for a full refund.

My first line of defense is to go back to the retailer. Campmor in particular is excellent in this regard, and EMS is a close second.

I usually buy equipment with my Amex card which has a program that doubles your warranty period. If the gear fails after the manufacturer warranty but during the extended Amex warranty, Amex sends you a check for the purchase amount. I haven't needed that for backpacking gear, but they did pay me for a hard drive failure!

In general, credit card purchasing gives you some added leverage with the manufacturer.

[LostInSpace]

Campmor: "After one year if you believe there to be a problem not caused by normal wear and tear, you should contact the manufacturer directly."

REI: "You can count on everything we offer to be highly functional, priced right and 100% guaranteed. Which means you can't go wrong with gear from REI. If you're ever dissatisfied with an item, you may return or exchange your REI.com purchases at any REI store or through mail order. "

EMS: "Your complete satisfaction with your EMS purchase is our first priority. If you are dissatisfied for any reason, we will exchange or repair the item in question or offer a cash refund with a valid receipt."

[kyhipo]

I have had companies send my stuff on my hiking trips,stove pumps that crack ect ect,I had to get rough few times,but thats the game.

[Cuffs]

I just lost the bite valve to my Gregory water bladder that I was using in my daypack. I was doing some serious bushwhacking (another story in itself!) and the briar thickets that I was trying to get through pulled it right off the end of the hose. I only discovered this 15 minutes later. Way too late to even think about looking for the little thing on the forest floor.

I got home, called Gregory, and they are promptly sending me out a FREE replacement valve.

** Gregory has discontinued their bladders, so the free valve may be just to get rid of their stock.

But, even after telling them how it was my fault that it was lost, they never even hesitated to send me one. Thanks Gregory!

[mrc237]

Here's what I do. Contact manufactorer tell them your problem, their usual reply is to send the item and they'll take a look at it. Always send a check with the item with a note stating its to cover any expenses etc. (I think it shows good faith). Hopefully they repair or replace item and not deposit check. I've used this method a few times and checks were never posted.

[jaywalke]

EMS: "Your complete satisfaction with your EMS purchase is our first priority. If you are dissatisfied for any reason, we will exchange or repair the item in question or offer a cash refund with a valid receipt.

I used to work at an EMS, and it was very satisfactory to help a customer with an honest beef. I had one young lady with a daypack that she wanted repaired. The thing had obviously been well-loved -- it was fifteen years old and mostly patches. It was too rough to fix, so we just let her pick out a new one. She was floored. I think it's a great policy for helping honest folks.

Unfortunately, that policy gets abused by a lot of stanks who buy gear, trash it for a year or so and then return it even if there was nothing wrong with it (aside from being used, of course). I had one guy who wanted to return a fleece jacket he'd had for 5 years. I asked him what the probelm was, and he replied, "Um, it just doesn't look right any more." We did the return. Had to . . . company policy. That kind of thing happened all the time. There were a few bad days when our returns outstripped our sales.

So, if you've ever wondered why gear (and other retail goods) costs so much, why stores close, why store brand quality has taken a dive, etc., part of the reaason may be the guy next to you at the counter with last year's jacket in hand.

[Jack Tarlin]

Many long-distance hikers take advantage of manufacturers.

All reputable companies will stand by what they sell, but in the fine print of the warranty, it invariably says something about "normal use" or "normal wear and tear."

What we do to gear isn't normal. In terms of what we do to outerwear, tents, boots, etc., thru-hikers put more wear and tear on their gear in the course of their hikes than most folks do to their gear in a lifetime.

There are some companies that will fix, replace, or refund ANYTHING for as long as you own it.

Some won't.

Bottom line: Save your receipts, and realize that every company has different poicies. Be aware of these policies BEFORE you make a significant purchase. But except in the case of gross product failure (like boots delaminating after a month, or breaking a tent ziper on week one, or something of that nature), be aware that what you'll be doing to your gear in the course of 24-27 weeks on the Trail is NOT normal wear and tear. Trail runners aren't supposed to last 2000 miles. Overpacking a lightweight backpack will make it explode. If you're careless about where you put your Thermarest, you're gonna punch holes in it.

Unless that is their specific and very clearly mandated policy, no company is obligated to freely replace or refund you on stuff that you've managed to destroy over several months of daily use in rugged conditions. In my experience, most of these companies will happily work with thru-hikers to keep them happy, but the flip side is that many are toughening their policies as they've grown tired of being relentlessly screwed by hikers who seem to think that the gear they mistreat or destroy can be replaced repeatedly, forever.

I've known hikers that essentially returned ALL of their gear to various companies at the end of their trips, and demanded free replacement of same.

It is no wonder that companies are toughening their return policies.

[icemanat95]

I have an MSR water filter that developed a leaky hose. It was well used. MSR replaced it for free within about 3 days.

EMS replaced a set of boots I bought. They felt great in the store and in the house and even on trail for the first day...the second day was pure torture. I cleaned them up and brought them back. Got my money back.


My Dana Designs Terraplane was my main pack. I used that for Winter mountaineering trips and my AT hike. Somewhere along the way I blew out the foundation of one of the stays and developed some wear holes in the back pockets of the pack. Dana Designs fixed the blow through with no questions asked, patched over the pockets at no charge and threw in a new belt and harness for their cost (not wholesale or dealer cost). I was very impressed with that.

[LIhikers]

I've only once had to exercise a manufactureres warranty. Over vigorous pumping caused my MSR Sweetwater filter to break. It seems the designers had considered this because it still worked, just leaked some, even though it was broken. One phone call to get a return authorization # and I had a new one in hand 3 days after they recieved my broken one. It doesn't get much better than that.

[LostInSpace]

Some manufacturers try to gain market share by proffering warranties that persuade buyers to select their products over those of their competitors. However, the quality of the products may not justify such a warranty. The consequence is the purchaser butts heads with the manufacturer. The manufactures ought to write warranties that they will stand behind. Yes, there are those people that will try to take advantage of whatever the warranty or return policy permits. The prudent business factors that in to their business plans.

[caro]

I live in Maine so LLBean is the name we use for lots of outdoor stuff. Their policy is if it doesn't suit they will replace it. People have abused this policy forever, like buying a hunting rifle for the moose hunt season and then returning it when the week is over and saying it doesn't suit. Or returning a jacket that has been outgrown and saying it doesn't suit. They have had to spend big bucks implementing systems where regular abusers are kept on file and refused service with documantation to prove the claim, but if you go with a legitamit (sp) beef they absolutely honor their policy even if you splurged and had second thoughts.

[icemanat95]

Jack is dead on right here.

Thru-hiking is abuse. So don't abuse maker's policies.

[Blissful]

Weird, my batter cover started coming off on my 4 year old Aurora just a few weeks ago. I was hoping to use that as an excuse to replace it!

Should be under the lifetime warranty, IMO. I sent mine back with that presumption. You didn't need to get a return authorization number either. The guy was good in the e-mail. If you need the address, let me know.

[Blissful]

In the last few years, me or my sons have had problems with a couple of sets of trekking poles, a tent, a pair of trailrunners. In all of these cases, Campmor or EMS took them back for a full refund.

My first line of defense is to go back to the retailer. Campmor in particular is excellent in this regard, and EMS is a close second.



But with Campor they only give you a year warranty. We tried to return Tevas that fell apart and this was one month over the year and they wouldn't let us return them.

Retailers that give you that forever warranty on products you buy from are Sierra Trading Post and REI. I'm trying out my Superfeet that I got from REI knowing I can return them if I don't like them even though they were cut to fit my boot.

[Pest]

The best part is sending stuff back that legitimately breaks, then selling new replacement product on ebay or the like.

I had a nalgene canteen and a platypus hydration system both legitimately
break, sent them back, and promptly sold the new replacements on ebay.

Any product that proves to me as unreliable, etc, I want to get rid of as soon as possible. If I can get a new product or a refund, all the better.

I did the same thing with a Kelty tent.

[sliderule]

In general, credit card purchasing gives you some added leverage with the manufacturer.

For only 60 days after you get the bill. And the "leverage" applies to the merchant who sold the item(s), not the manufacturer (unless the item was purchased directly from the manufacturer.)

[Blissful]

Update on all my returns -

Princeton Tech sent a new Aurora head lamp

Samsung reformatted my son's MP3 player

And just a few days ago, got two new stuff sacks from Mountain Hardwear for the tents. They aren't the original utlra light sacks for the Kivas, but probably better that way since these are BSA tents. They look very durable.