View Full Version : More On Dehydration.
a synopsis if you will for the more experienced backpackers.
I have an FD-60 snackmaster machine which does a completely excellent job of dehydrating. My question is this I can find no where on the internet where it will geve me deffinate shelf life for meat such has hamburger chicken etc. I am wondering with this dehydrator and say a foodsaver vacuum packer is it possible to make meals such has chicken and rice and spaghetti with hamburger then dehydrate the whole meal and vaccum pack it. If I do this can I expect the same shelf life has the mountian house meals which has been extended now to 7 years? also I see that thier food has a pretty high salt content. any Idea how much I can figure a set amount of salt say for every mg you can extend the life of meats? for example 1 mg of salt will extend the shelf life of recipe's with meats for such and such number of days? if no one really knows the answer to any of this then does someone know by chance where it can be found. I am sure that turkey hamburger etc. has different consistencies of meat fat therefore the shelf should will vary on each per mg of sodium however Mountain House dehydrated meals has a shelf life of seven years no matter what kind of meat is in thier recipe. how is this possible? I am not looking to extend mine for seven years mind you but a year in a pantry with a de hydrated meat product type recipe such has maybe shrimp and broccoli alfredo or cajun chicken with rice and okra would be nice. thank you all in advance and I look forward to hearing from you.
Skidsteer
08-31-2006, 17:36
Have you seen this study (http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=547437)?
jsut read over it thanks for posting it by the way. I do however feel that this study is inaccurate pataining to the topic due to the fact that freeze drying is a process that uses sub zero temperatures and a vaccum to dry the meet and it looks like alot of that is raw. I am talking about cooking the meet first and then using prolonged exposure to heat to dry out the product. and as a bonus it is already done with manufactures of back packing meals such as mountain house so I am just wondering what thier secret is to the seven year shelf life and how I can recreate it at home with typical store bought equipment. That is also why I asked about the sodium, I dont mind using a little salt to presere but I do feel that 1370 mg for one meal is entirely to much. So I wonder if I can cut that in half and get three and a half years out of a meal I can make at home or even cut it by a fourth and get almost two years of shelf life using heat dehydration and vacuum packing. another reason this is important to me is I went thorugh hurricane Katrina last year with an MSR multi fuel stove I was able to live on tuna helper and ramen for a week. let me tell you I dont think a better stove is made. it burned anything I put in it to include a mix of old spice and stetson LOL. anyway the tuna helper was absolutley great but I would sure like to expand a little bit and also start dehydrating the entire meals like with hamburger chicken maybe even some shrimp I know they have them in some of the ramen dishes so it has to be possible.
The issue is that at home processing, you just cannot process the meat properly. Eventually you run the risk of it going rancid if any fat was left in (motice that even freeze dried food has little fat in it).
You could do meatless meals, and Food Vac them, and 2-3 years later you'd have little issues when eating them though, as long you had no added fats in them.
If you did want to go this route though, you would have to use freeze dried meat for safety. But 7 years? Agh! At least have a turn over every year. Even store bought freeze dried meals should be cycled thru.
Anyhoo, check out www.beprepared.com for a lot of stuff.
PS: You can get dried shrimps at asian stores. We sell them where I work. But even they go bad after awhile, they should be stored long term in a freezer.
SARBAR! I was just looking at your freezer bag cooking website. I must say I am quickly becoming a pretty big fan of yours these recipe's look great. I do quite a bit of backpacking but I must tell you that my true intentions for requesting such information is that I like to sail and since refrigeration systems are expensive and require power not to mention have a slight reputation of unreliability I am looking at all this as emergency stores conveint keep aboard type meals. you guys are certainly helpful and I cant tell you how much I appreciate all of your responses I am also suppose to watch my sodium intake and suggestions such as low sodium bullion are great. I didnt even know they made it.
I dont suppose you have one of those faux recipe's for tuna helper and chicken helper powder also by chance?
and one more question if I may I see that a few of our recipe's call for dried hamburger. how long would you keep yours to use before throwing it away?
fiddlehead
08-31-2006, 22:30
like someone said above, it is almost impossible to get all of the fat out of hamburger. That being said, i buy the best when dehydrating, brown it, pad the fat out of it with lots of paper towels about 4 times, then dry it in the oven at about the lowest it will go until it starts getting really dark. Sometimes, if i'm going out soon, i will dry it less. I've already forgotten about it in my pack and returned after the winter (5 or 6 months later) to find that the hamburger was still good. (you'll be able to tell from the smell when it goes bad)
So, i don't think you'd get 7 years out of it ever. but you may find that it lasts a long time and of course it depends on how much fat you get out of it.
Also, freezing it after drying and packing helps a lot. wait until you are ready to go before taking it out. have fun.
and one more question if I may I see that a few of our recipe's call for dried hamburger. how long would you keep yours to use before throwing it away?
I have kept it dried, in teh freezer for a year with no issue-in my pack for a week with no worries. I'd say no more than a year in the freezer (freezing retards going rancid) and maybe a month in the pack :)
If it does go rancid, you'll know by the smell ;)
I dont suppose you have one of those faux recipe's for tuna helper and chicken helper powder also by chance?
Well, I do have something ;) I have a 2cnd site, that is all on low sodium cooking and other niche cooking for the trail:
http://www.freewebs.com/healthytrailfood/lowsodium.htm
And on there, I have this master recipe I am working on:
(While not exactly what you want, it shows how you can do it!)
Faux Hamburger Helper For Trail and For Home:
This is a mix you can make in advance and use in a number of ways.
At home mix together:
2 cups nonfat dry milk
1 cup corn starch
1/4 cup low sodium beef bouillon powder
2 tablespoons onion flakes
1 teaspoon dried basil
1 teaspoon dried thyme
1 teaspoon black pepper
2 tablespoons dried parsley
1 tablespoon garlic powder
Store tightly sealed. Use mix as a base for the following dinners:
Chili Mac:
1 pound ground beef, browned and drained
1 cup water
1/2 cup macaroni noodles (uncooked)
2 cans no salt added diced or stewed tomatoes
1 Tlb chili powder
1/2 cup dry mix
Stroganoff:
1 pound ground beef, browned and drained
2 cups water
1/2 cup dry mix
2 cups uncooked egg noodles
1/2 cup sour cream
Potato Beef Casserole:
1 pound ground beef, browned and drained
3/4 cup water
6 potatoes, peeled and thinly sliced
1 cup frozen mixed veggies
1/2 cup dry mix
Directions:
Chili Mac: Combine all and simmer 20 minutes or until macaroni is cooked
Stroganoff: Combine all except sour cream. Simmer 20 minutes or until noodles are tender. Stir in sour cream and serve.
Potato Beef Casserole Combine all and simmer, covered, until potatoes are tender, about 30 minutes, stirring occasionally. Remove cover and cook until excess water is evaporated.
The above recipes can be dehydrated and taken with you for simple FBC style meals, or one could simmer in camp. To cut down on cooking time, one could use dried sliced potatoes (found in bulk sections), freezedried vegetables (sub 1/2 cup fd vegetables for 1 cup frozen) and precooked and dried pasts. Precooked pasta will cut back on cooking time by about half. Canned tomatoes can be pureed and dried at home.
I will update these recipes as I work on them.
Servings would be in the 2-4 person range, per recipe made.