View Full Version : Tarptent: floor or no floor?
stringbean
09-01-2006, 02:33
I am starting to consider getting a HS tarptent (most likely the Virga) for my section hike next summer from CT to ME. However, I read a post in the backpacker.com forums awhile back about the sewn in flooring option and I think everyone who replied said that they highly recommended it. They all complained of bugs crawling into their shelter. I would like to get some more feedback on this. I want to keep the cost and weight down but if it comes down to an extra 6 ounces and $35 or ticks in my sleeping bag, I think I would opt for the extra weight and money.
I see no good reason to eliminate the floor.
Weight savings? If you didn't have a floor, you'd probably use a Tyvek groundsheet. Tyvek weighs about the same as silnylon.
Before making your purchase, take a look at the Squall 2. It weighs a few ounces more than the Virga; palatial for one person, but large enough for two, if the opportunity arises. :cool:
fiddlehead
09-01-2006, 03:16
some good reasons for no floor:
you can pee out of your sleeping bag without even getting out.
easier to cook inside. no worries about a little spillage or burns
much easier on the environment LNT (once in Nepal i set up my Megamid in a field of 4' high marajuna and folded it over and used it as my mattress.) Twas a great night.
i know people who even carry a footprint to put under their floor of their tent. That means 2 floors. simple is better
Floors tend to act like a bathtub if you do get water inside, it stays in there.
poorer ventilation with a floor
you don't have to find as flat a spot for tent placement, a big rock in the way won't matter if you have room inside. Or a small bush or tree or cactus. I've often set up my megamid over a plant to get a great view without killing the natural beauty of the site. Or a rock.
I switched to floorless tents in 98 and won't go back.
Tents with floors in them make me feel much more claustophobic ever since.
keep an open mind and try it out sometime.
bartender
09-01-2006, 03:17
I second what Roland said. I have the original Squall with the sewn in floor and the extended beak and it is by far the best tent I have ever owned. Henry keeps making a great product even better! If I were a more wealthy guy I would end up with at least three of his tents, the Rainbow calls to me everytime I see it mentioned here!
hikerjohnd
09-01-2006, 07:24
To me the purpose of a tent is to provide a complete shelter. If you are going to go without a floor then why even use a tent? A fly will provide the same protection. And on a personal note, peeing where the floor should be is gross. Roland is right - go with the floor.
fiddlehead
09-01-2006, 07:56
To me the purpose of a tent is to provide a complete shelter. If you are going to go without a floor then why even use a tent? A fly will provide the same protection. And on a personal note, peeing where the floor should be is gross. Roland is right - go with the floor.
i never said we pee where the floor would be, you simply pull down the bag, roll over and pee outside the tent. not gross at all. but hey, too each his own. I'm just explaining some reasons why tent floors are a disadvantage. Tent floors are sort of like hiking poles. You don't know you don't need them till you try.
vaporjourney
09-01-2006, 07:58
I say go with the floor. Only if you really don't care about bugs should you go without. But like others said, you'll still be adding some ounces for a groundsheet of some sort to protect your sleeping bag. Plus, if things are really muddy out, you'll love that floor.
If you need to pee while in tent, just carry around a gatorade bottle. Or, get one of those collapsable nalgene botttles with a wide mouth.
bigcranky
09-01-2006, 08:02
Well, the no-floor option has a little more flexibility. Your separate ground sheet can be used during the day, or in shelters, as well as in the tarptent. But my tarptent has a floor, so go figure....
otterman
09-01-2006, 08:28
I like the floor. It just simplifies things. Everything is in one piece when you set it up. It sure is slippery with my sleeping pad though. I have to put something on the pad to keep it in one place through the night.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-01-2006, 09:06
Personally, I want a floor because nothing destroys a good night's sleep for me better than waking up with a creepy-crawling friend traversing my face.
HS tents are well-made and give you the option of adding the floor as do many other tarptents these days. The Vigra with a sewn-in floor will be $205. The Squall with a sewn-in floor is $230.
You may want to consider a few others before going with one of HS's tarptents. If you use trekking poles and decide to go floorless with bug protection consider the much lighter than HS's tarptent option - Gossemer Gear's Spinnshelter with the bugnet option (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/Spinn-Shelter.html)at $194 - weight without ground cloth is about 14 ozs. This gives you the flexiblity to leave the bugnet at home when bugs are not a problem.
For weight to space ratio, bug protection and versatility it is nearly impossible to beat a standard tarp with a bug-tent underneath (Campmor makes a variety of sizes in silnylon (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/campmor/search/main.jsp?command=text&ip_text=ultralight+tarp&image.x=0&image.y=0)). The Integral Designs bug-tent (26 ozs) at $140 (http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=827&CFID=7378347&CFTOKEN=43005992&mainproducttypeid=1) provides a floor and full bug protection for two under a tarp that has been pitched for the conditions you are facing. By pitching the tarp before deploying the bug tent, you would have ample space for things like cooking, drying gear, bathing and would have the option of leaving the 26 oz bug tent at home when bugs are not a problem. A more austere option is Oware's single person ultralight bug bivy at $79 / 10.5 ozs (bottom of page) (http://www.owareusa.com/bugbivys.html). A larger version is Integral Design's single person bug bivy at $100 (http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=771&CFID=7378347&CFTOKEN=43005992&mainproducttypeid=1)
If you like a lot of space and head room, it is hard to beat the tipi-type designs. Oware makes a bugnet tipi for $139 (http://www.owareusa.com/bugbivys.html) or Integral Design's model at $140. (http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=828&CFID=7378347&CFTOKEN=43005992&mainproducttypeid=1) This item under a standard tarp or tipi shaped tarp would be another option if you wanted loads of space and were willing to add a bit of weight.
I say go with the floor. Only if you really don't care about bugs should you go without. But like others said, you'll still be adding some ounces for a groundsheet of some sort to protect your sleeping bag. Plus, if things are really muddy out, you'll love that floor.Until you try to pack up tent with mud all over the bottom that quickly becomes mud all over it.
With a floorless tent, just use a 2 mil painters dropcloth for a floor. Your tent never gets muddy and you can put it back in the stuff sack. It is easy to fold the drop cloth such that the mud is all on hte inside, and it is easy to sloosh out the floor in a stream,easier than cleaning your entire tent.
I don't understand the guy who said if you didn't have a floor, why even bother with the tent. I know you didn't mean you would sleep outside in a heavy rain rather than under a tarp and on a piece of Tyvek, but what did you mean?
Even if you have a tent with a floor, you should carry a dropcloth or Tyvek. It gives you the option of laying it under your sleeping back if you use a shelter, especially a shelter when it is raining. The floors tend to get muddy.
stringbean
09-01-2006, 11:09
I don't understand the guy who said if you didn't have a floor, why even bother with the tent. I know you didn't mean you would sleep outside in a heavy rain rather than under a tarp and on a piece of Tyvek, but what did you mean?
Even if you have a tent with a floor, you should carry a dropcloth or Tyvek. It gives you the option of laying it under your sleeping back if you use a shelter, especially a shelter when it is raining. The floors tend to get muddy.[/quote]
First of all I would just like to say thanks to everyone, you have been extremely helpful! Frosty, what I meant when I asked was if I should get the floor or not, assuming that I would be using a tarp either way. I don't think that I have the balls to sleep right on the ground while its pouring rain, though I kinda wish I did.
Footslogger
09-01-2006, 11:13
I don't think that I have the balls to sleep right on the ground while its pouring rain, though I kinda wish I did.
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Not sure it's about balls. More like comfort and common sense. And your point about carrying a groundcloth (Tyvek) is a good one. Floor or no floor it is sensible to use a ground cloth to protect the floor material from puncture.
'Slogger
stumpknocker
09-01-2006, 11:23
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And your point about carrying a groundcloth (Tyvek) is a good one. Floor or no floor it is sensible to use a ground cloth to protect the floor material from puncture.
'Slogger
Hey Footslogger......got to disaggree with you on this one. I'm still carrying my same silnylon tent and I've never used a ground cloth. My only damage came from the Florida Trail when I set up late at night on a mound of fire ants that ate through the floor. :)
I've even set my tent up over rocks that were in my way as long as there's enough room for my body next to the rocks, but mostly I set up on a nice, soft bed of duff and leaves.
I also never have any problems with mud, but then I don't set my tent up in dirt.
Just Jeff
09-01-2006, 11:27
A tarptent protects you from skeeters. Some crawlies might still get in, but most of the biting and stinging bugs will be stopped by the tarptent, even w/o the floor.
That's the biggest reason I see for going with a tarptent instead of just a tarp. Either way, good site selection and your groundcloth will protect you from wet ground (in that order).
But in a hammock I can stand under my tarp and pee out the side. Much more comfortable.
Footslogger
09-01-2006, 11:31
[quote=stumpknocker]Hey Footslogger......got to disaggree with you on this one.
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I can live with that ...it doesn't make you a bad person :)
Guess it's all a matter of preference. The tent I carried on my thru in 2003 (Wanderlust Nomad Lite) ended up with an abrasion hole in the floor where the hiking stick sat. My experience might have been unique.
'Slogger
stringbean
09-01-2006, 11:43
Just Jeff, I don't use trekking poles. If I used a hammock on the AT from CT to ME, would I ever have a problem finding a place to set up? I am pretty sure that I wouldn't, but the idea of a hammock is also crossing my mind and I would hate to find out otherwise once I am out there.
stumpknocker
09-01-2006, 11:47
[quote=stumpknocker]Hey Footslogger......got to disaggree with you on this one.
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I can live with that ...it doesn't make you a bad person :)
Guess it's all a matter of preference. The tent I carried on my thru in 2003 (Wanderlust Nomad Lite) ended up with an abrasion hole in the floor where the hiking stick sat. My experience might have been unique.
'Slogger
Yeah 'Slogger, you're unique alright!! :)
I carry the Wanderlust Nomad 2-4-2 and Kurt sewed 3 small pads on the floor to set the point of my pole on. Over the years, the small square pad I use most has worn, but that's not bad for all the use it's had.
Sure wish Kurt would start making his Wanderlust Nomads again. Where did he go???
TwoForty
09-01-2006, 14:05
Good luck finding a Virga II with a sewn in floor.
Just Jeff
09-01-2006, 14:16
If I used a hammock on the AT from CT to ME, would I ever have a problem finding a place to set up?
I haven't hiked that section, but I think the only place it's an issue is on some balds and above treeline. So you might have to look around an extra few minutes. Plenty of WB folks have hiked there and can give you a more reliable answer, though.
Appalachian Tater
09-01-2006, 17:16
Definitely get the floor for comfort and to keep the ticks, mosquitoes, snakes, etc. out. The bathtub floor also saved my neck one time when I went to sleep in a meadow and woke up in a bog.
Put some stripes of silicone on the floor and on the orange side of your Thermarest when you seal the tent seams to keep the Thermarest from sliding around.
To clean the inevitable debris on floor, just turn the Tarptent inside out and shake it before you pack it up.
I spent about 125 nights in my Rainbow on my hike. I love it because you can sit up in it without hitting your head and there's room inside for a pack and maybe even another person, if need be.
It does show some signs of use, mainly some small holes that I patched with silicone.
My only complaint is that it doesn't have a kitchen, bathroom or laundry room.
Hi Stringbean
Your new tent will be announced soon, keep an eye on the what's new on the TarpTent site.
The same for all of the ones that are missing the Nomad or the Tacoma and the like.
Hint, walking poles are very useful, one for balance, two for speed. One of them could also be used to hold up your new shelter.
Franco
Get the floor and pee in a bottle
With or without a floor is all about your preference. They both have advantages and disadvantages and there are many responses in this thread to make you decide which one to stick with. I, myself, had the Virga 2 without the floor and it worked great. I never had bugs crawling on my face or any weird things happen people want you to believe. Though with the floor it would be less of a hassle to set up the floor. On a thru-hike I used a piece of polycryo (gossamer gear) for my floor and that worked great. Good luck in deciding.
hikerjohnd
09-01-2006, 23:28
Just out of curiosity, for those of you who choose no floor, do you all use some kind of groundsheet (tyvek, plastic, whatever)?
fiddlehead
09-01-2006, 23:47
Yeah, i have a piece of tyvek about 8' long and 4 'wide. I curl up the sides a bit to keep out any bugs. it doubles as a small shelter in the day or a clean groundsheet when cooking.
and it's also great for writing your destination when hitching. as well as a butt pad. i guess that's more than a double then???
my 2 shelters are a sil-shelter at 9' X 5' and a megamid at 9'X9' plenty of room for gear, cooking, staying away from the sides for condensation. and in the mega-mid there's also plenty of room for a small party when it's nasty out.
And on a personal note, peeing where the floor should be is gross. Roland is right - go with the floor.
that all depends on how cold it is. anything below about 15 degrees, i'm pissin' where the floor should be. i also like pitching my floorless shelter where natural objects such as large rocks or small shrubs will be inside. it's a more natural enviroment inside and you can put stuff on said objects as well. i am a firm believer that no floor reduces condensation dramatically. you can use a small ground sheet directly under your sleeping pad to protect it from sticks and rocks.
blindeye
09-03-2006, 11:00
get the floor!!! you won't be sorry
Instead of a floor, I carry a strip of nylon the is just a bit wider than my bag.
Since it is a separate piece of gear it can be used in other ways, too, such as an extra water proof layer in the bottom of my pack or as a ground sheet to keep the dust of shelter floors off of my pad or bag. I have never had a problem with bugs.
Instead of a floor, I carry a strip of nylon the is just a bit wider than my bag.
Since it is a separate piece of gear it can be used in other ways, too, such as an extra water proof layer in the bottom of my pack or as a ground sheet to keep the dust of shelter floors off of my pad and bag. I have never had a problem with bugs.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-03-2006, 13:47
I'm working on a tarp / tent design with a clip-on bugnet and floor and with an option to be double-walled via an optional fly. If I can pull this off, it will be the ultimate tent for versatility - could be used with or without a floor and become a three season tent by adding the fly. I am hoping to be able to keep the weight:space ratio very low. While a manufacture has expressed an interest in the design, the pattern will be available for DIYers. I'm hoping to have a one, two and two + dog version - the last having an extra vestibule on the foot end for the dog.
hopefulhiker
09-03-2006, 18:54
I liked the floor of the tarptent. I started out with a ground cloth but found I did not really need it if I was just a little bit careful about the site. One night there were thousands of bugs. I really appreciated the full enclosure.
I use an REI Gimme Shelter that has a removable floor. If the weather is supposed to be nice I usually leave it at home, but it installs in about 30 seconds if the weather is supposed to be nasty. I've used it on quite a few rainy slogfests and stayed perfectly dry. The other nice thing is that it has ripstop patches sewn into the floor where the poles stand.