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View Full Version : My Advice for those of you planning Mail Drops and other things.



Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 12:38
Those of you who dont come to the ALDHA Gathering miss out on my excellent seminar on Effective and Efficient mail drops.

I am not going to spell it out here in detail, if you want that, come to the Gathering.

But here are some quick pointers.

BOUNCE BOXES = WASTE OF MONEY
Dont buy in bulk and think that you are saving buy bouncing food, clothes etc up the trail. Figure that a 3lb box is gonna cost you nearly $8 to ship every time and I have hardly seen any 3lb boxes.

MAIL DROPS PERIOD = WASTE OF MONEY
Dont buy in bulk prior to your hike. If you are willing to eat POP-TARTS or OATMEAL and you are going to buy a bulk box of it and mail it to your self... DONT DO IT!! Just go with what ever you can buy along the way. If you are willing to eat the chemicals in oatmel and pop tarts, you can survive on Tasty Cake Honey Bunns, string cheese, slim-jims, and generic little debbies that they sell at the gas station that is .75 miles west of the Whistle Stop Resturant in Vermont.

2 QUICK TIPS

Postal service gives free Priority Mail Boxes to anyone who ships priority mail. If you need to ship another way, disassemble the box and turn it inside out and you have a plain brown box.

Postal service has a flat rate box that cost $8 and change. There are 3 different box sizes, no matter what the weight, it is only $8 flate rate to ship to any post office.

2 EXCEPTIONS TO MY RULES ABOVE

Send a mail drop packed with what ever you want to eat in the SMOKIES to Fontana Dam. The store there sucks, they want $1.25 for 1 package of ramen, and it is 40 miles to the nearest grocery store.

If you are a special diet, VEGAN, DEHYDRATED OWN FOOD, or what have you then obviously you are not going to be able to follow my rules... so keep the tips in mind.

This years Mail Drops Seminar will be very indepth on this subject.

I'll teach you how to actually pack cost saving mail drops that you will actually use, how to save big bucks on postage, how to send home your un-wanted gear and more.

See you at the Gathering??

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 12:39
Oh yea... I dont proof read before I post.... spelling and grammer errors are in my disclaimer.

Sly
09-01-2006, 12:54
So in lieu of a bounce box do you suggest carrying the entire set of maps the distance?

Also, for the most part the USPS marks the insiide of PM boxes. Regardless, it's illegal to use a PM box for mailing other than PM, inside out or not. Since using the PO is an important part of any hike, I suggest everyone follow the regulations.

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 13:00
I disagree. Bounce boxes serve many purposes and are worth the extra bucks, IMO. Sly used maps as an example...I would add unused gear storage (extra layers for summer hiking, etc.), repair items, town stuff (shaving, etc.), bulk purchase items (zip locks, etc)... and many more.

I think USPS should stand for: US Postal Sherpa

Happy hiking!

TTF

Sly
09-01-2006, 13:05
Can you please elaborate?
One suggestion I have is, if you're using a bounce box is to mail it from town to town via parcel post. You'll save a few $$ each time and it's hardly unlikely you'll out hike the mail.

Also, if you're there to accept a PM package, the PO does not have to forward it for free. Many will, but it's not in the service, so don't argue. The best way to get around this regulation, assuming you're not picking anything else up, is to drop a fowarding card in the letter box

stumpknocker
09-01-2006, 13:11
So in lieu of a bounce box do you suggest carrying the entire set of maps the distance?

Not only do I bounce my maps, but my camera charger, extra smiley faces, blaze orange for hunting season, extra socks (can't get the kind of socks I use at outfitters along the Trail) and now, it looks like my cat-can stove and Starbuck's will be in the box until I decide that I really do need them after all. :)

I usually try to send my bounce box about 400 miles ahead of me. That way I'll be back to it in less than a month and can recharge both camera batteries and get more smiley faces for the registers.....important stuff!! :)

I always carry one extra sock with me in case one of my socks develops a hole in the toes. I can live with a hole in other places on the socks.

I HAVE to have a bounce box......no other options for me.

Sly
09-01-2006, 13:24
If you're mailing a box 400 miles the savings between PM and Parcel Post is negligible. Shorter distances between towns, using PP, is where the savings add up.

It's best to ask at the PO for rates or use the USPS website beforehand.

stumpknocker
09-01-2006, 13:30
If you're mailing a box 400 miles the savings between PM and Parcel Post is negligible. Shorter distances between towns, using PP, is where the savings add up.

It's best to ask at the PO for rates or use the USPS website beforehand.

Yep, I always use Parcel Post. When the PO has been too rough on my bounce box, it's usually pretty easy to find a new one where I resupply at.

Oh yeah, my postal tape and address labels also go in my bounce box. Took me a looooong time to figure out how to get my postal tape on the inside of the box. :rolleyes:

Alligator
09-01-2006, 13:33
Yep, I always use Parcel Post. When the PO has been too rough on my bounce box, it's usually pretty easy to find a new one where I resupply at.

Oh yeah, my postal tape and address labels also go in my bounce box. Took me a looooong time to figure out how to get my postal tape on the inside of the box. :rolleyes:I was thinking hikers could bounce a scale too so they would know how much the box weighed for postage...:-? :D

mweinstone
09-01-2006, 14:19
sly is the one who knows
the secrets of the shogun ninjitsu bounce box and accesory food box
the government issued mp3451 super heavy water bounce box instructions as dolled out by majestic 12 are as followes.
a black opps team of postal assasins will gather outside your window tonight with the appropriat snipper gear.
at exactly 0800 hours the alpha team will conduct your auxillery snickers bar to the said postal location where you will eat said candy. am i making myself cular?

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:19
So in lieu of a bounce box do you suggest carrying the entire set of maps the distance?

Also, for the most part the USPS marks the insiide of PM boxes. Regardless, it's illegal to use a PM box for mailing other than PM, inside out or not. Since using the PO is an important part of any hike, I suggest everyone follow the regulations.


It has been tried over and over and over again with much success. UPS, DHL, FED-EX, all will ship a box. If it is that big a deal just cover the inside ink markings with tape or lables.

Priority Mail Sales is a commercial for profit entity of the United States Postal Service, so trust me, when the decide they want to try and prosecute some one for using a free box... they are gonna have a huge battle with the rest of the public for running a for profit entity that competes with the private sector.... enuff about that topic. Use the boxes, or not... You can purchase those other boxes for 50 times what they are worth if you would like.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:21
So in lieu of a bounce box do you suggest carrying the entire set of maps the distance?

Also, for the most part the USPS marks the insiide of PM boxes. Regardless, it's illegal to use a PM box for mailing other than PM, inside out or not. Since using the PO is an important part of any hike, I suggest everyone follow the regulations.

Nope!!

I dont suggest that you carry the maps at all. To much weight, and usless information on the maps, plus the expense of the maps to begin with. Hike without a map, accept the adventure that you are on, use the extra money that you save to invest in a better digital camera to take more pictures of your adventure.

If you insist on carrying the maps, you would find my Effective and Efficent Mail Drops Seminar very useful.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:23
I disagree. Bounce boxes serve many purposes and are worth the extra bucks, IMO. Sly used maps as an example...I would add unused gear storage (extra layers for summer hiking, etc.), repair items, town stuff (shaving, etc.), bulk purchase items (zip locks, etc)... and many more.

I think USPS should stand for: US Postal Sherpa

Happy hiking!

TTF

Shipping for one box of zip lock bags that weighs 13oz, plus the box to pack it in and the tape etc, will cost you $4.05 to mail. That is if you get to the next location and find that some one there just threw 5 new ziplocks into the hiker box and you dont want to use yours.

mweinstone
09-01-2006, 14:27
and talk about minnisota smith. and your right. maps dont help on the super highway of the at. its as easy to navigate as any road. all you need is the data book and pages from the handbook. oh and by the way,.... you'll never guess who called,.... yep,....... your goast called....................

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:28
[quote=Sly]One suggestion I have is, if you're using a bounce box is to mail it from town to town via parcel post. You'll save a few $$ each time and it's hardly unlikely you'll out hike the mail.

Also, if you're there to accept a PM package, the PO does not have to forward it for free. Many will, but it's not in the service, so don't argue. The best way to get around this regulation, assuming you're not picking anything else up, is to drop a fowarding card in the letter box.

Again there are many misleading points made in this post that are not true. This person is not telling you everything that you need to know about. 2007 Thru Hikers can save a ton by coming to the Gathering.

mweinstone
09-01-2006, 14:28
gost is not spelled goast.
xoxo your gost

Sly
09-01-2006, 14:29
TwoFiddy you can suggest all the disengenous and dishonest ways of mailing packages as you wish, it doesn't change the fact that using a PM box for other than it's intended is against USPS regulations and that it's stealing using other services. That you're going to suggest the same at the Gathering is wrong.

I've covered lots of trail and used the PO quite often and never had trouble finding a free box at a grocery store, hostel ect. when using Parcel Post.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:30
Yep, I always use Parcel Post. When the PO has been too rough on my bounce box, it's usually pretty easy to find a new one where I resupply at.

Oh yeah, my postal tape and address labels also go in my bounce box. Took me a looooong time to figure out how to get my postal tape on the inside of the box. :rolleyes:

Postal Tape. $2.50 per roll... tips the scales at quite a few ounces 3, 4, 5, maby 6 oz when it is new. WITH PRIORITY MAIL The postal tape is free!! They have postal tape with the little priority mail logos on it.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:32
TwoFiddy you can suggest all the disengenous and dishonest ways of mailing packages as you wish, it doesn't change the fact that using a PM box for other than it's intended is against USPS regulations and that it's stealing using other services. That you're going to suggest the same at the Gathering is wrong.

I've covered lots of trail and used the PO quite often and never had trouble finding a free box at a grocery store, hostel ect. when using Parcel Post.


I have sat with postal officials and discussed these topics to great detail.
Nothing that I present is illegal, disengenous, dishonest, or for that matter against USPS regulations, except maby using a brand new priority mail box for another shipper.

This is about one thing, over the course of a THRU-HIKE, it you follow the advice of the research that I have done over the past 3 years on this topic, I can save you nearly $1000.

Sly
09-01-2006, 14:33
One suggestion I have is, if you're using a bounce box is to mail it from town to town via parcel post. You'll save a few $$ each time and it's hardly unlikely you'll out hike the mail.

Also, if you're there to accept a PM package, the PO does not have to forward it for free. Many will, but it's not in the service, so don't argue. The best way to get around this regulation, assuming you're not picking anything else up, is to drop a fowarding card in the letter box.

Again there are many misleading points made in this post that are not true. This person is not telling you everything that you need to know about. 2007 Thru Hikers can save a ton by coming to the Gathering.

What's not true?

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:35
Just FYI folks
SLY=TROLL

Search his username and you will see that he argues in nearly every single post.


Those of you who are hiking in 07... omit the BS here in this post. Find the stuff in here that you need to use to save money.

Sly
09-01-2006, 14:42
This is about one thing, over the course of a THRU-HIKE, it you follow the advice of the research that I have done over the past 3 years on this topic, I can save you nearly $1000.

I doubt that, I don't spend anywhere near $1000 on postage to begin with.

Even if you did 30 mail drops your postage wouldn't be much more than $600 and that's from zone 8. Of course, you could save some of that back by buying in bulk.

stumpknocker
09-01-2006, 14:44
Postal Tape. $2.50 per roll... tips the scales at quite a few ounces 3, 4, 5, maby 6 oz when it is new. WITH PRIORITY MAIL The postal tape is free!! They have postal tape with the little priority mail logos on it.

Yeah, I know.....just writing what works for me. :)

I like sitting in my motel room and going through my bounce box when I catch up to it. I know I could save money in lots of ways, but I have my own routine and I like it.

I do change sometimes though.....I went to titanium tent stakes this year and love them.

My biggest problem with Priority Mail for a box is that the size box I use is not available most of the time I look for one, so I just get a box from the grocery where I resupply and mail it Parcel Post.

Lone Wolf
09-01-2006, 14:46
Nope!!

I dont suggest that you carry the maps at all. To much weight, and usless information on the maps, plus the expense of the maps to begin with. Hike without a map, accept the adventure that you are on, use the extra money that you save to invest in a better digital camera to take more pictures of your adventure.

If you insist on carrying the maps, you would find my Effective and Efficent Mail Drops Seminar very useful.
There's good advice. Telling newbies to hike a trail without maps. And according to you "accept the adventure that you are on". Then why do maildrops at all?

Sly
09-01-2006, 14:47
I'm a troll, yeah right buddy.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 14:50
Not only do I bounce my maps,
Item Not Needed to Thru-Hike Next

but my camera charger Valid point a small light weight bounce box or evenlope with camera charger and phone charger that cost about $1.50 or $2.00 to send parcel post might be a good choice. Otherwise you can just purchase regular batteries
extra smiley faces HUH?? I am all smiles when I am hiking.
, blaze orange for hunting season, you are kidding right?? If blaze orange is that important to you, just get a hat to wear all the time that is that color
extra socks (can't get the kind of socks I use at outfitters along the Trail) and now Again folks it appears that we have some one here who is like a VEGAN. Honestly you have to bounce your socks, you are so experienced at hiking that you have to bounce your socks?? You cant make 2 brand new pairs of socks last 250 miles or what ever distance that you know that they last and just send your self a new pair of socks to that location. This is the kind of stuff folks that I am trying to help new or poential thru-hikers to avoid. Dont get into this mindset that I have to have this and have to have that. All that you need are your feet, legs, boots, and backpack and keep hiking
it looks like my cat-can stove and Starbuck's will be in the box until I decide that I really do need them after all. :) Again if you cant survive off of 6 hr old gas station brewed coffee, then you probably should not be hiking the AT. God forbid that you would not be able to find a Starbucks. When I go hiking I am trying to get away from that crap. Life must stink to be addicted to a certain brand of coffee.


I usually try to send my bounce box about 400 miles ahead of me. That way I'll be back to it in less than a month and can recharge both camera batteries and get more smiley faces for the registers.....important stuff!! :)

OK smiley faces... 39cent envelope with 3 sheets of them in there should get you down the trail pretty far... I dont see the need for a bounce box there.


I always carry one extra sock with me in case one of my socks develops a hole in the toes. I can live with a hole in other places on the socks. Again folks this is crazy. Good socks dont get holes in them in a few hundred miles unless your shoes dont fit properly or you did not have brand spanking new socks to begin with when you started.




I HAVE to have a bounce box......no other options for me.

After all of your particular MUST HAVE's I throw in the towell. You need a bounce box... print out this post and stick it in there too so that you dont forget that I said that... In the mean time, those who are fresh to trying this hike who want some sound advice on not being so set in certain ways that it is going to cost you a ton of cash, days off in towns waiting for Tuesday when the PO opens up again from the holiday weekend, and paying postage to mail the same stuff over and over and over again... keep reading this post.

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 14:51
This is about one thing, over the course of a THRU-HIKE, it you follow the advice of the research that I have done over the past 3 years on this topic, I can save you nearly $1000.

Let's do some math: $10 (mine were usually $8 and change) per bounce box ship x 15 towns = $150. This is very conservative because you probably wouldn't ship this to every town and would be less expensive than $10.

Take that $150 and subtract $1000 savings! Twofiddy has just pocketed $850???

...unless I'm missing something of course. Twofiddy...how in world are you coming up with over $1000 in postage?

Happy hiking!

TTF

max patch
09-01-2006, 14:55
Just FYI folks
SLY=TROLL



Your'e kidding, right?

I disagree with just about everything that Sly says...but he ain't no troll.

Your'e actually teaching a course somewhere?! Unbelievable!!!

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 14:56
Sly:

You TROLL!

LMAO!

TTF

stumpknocker
09-01-2006, 14:59
Item Not Needed to Thru-Hike Next
Valid point a small light weight bounce box or evenlope with camera charger and phone charger that cost about $1.50 or $2.00 to send parcel post might be a good choice. Otherwise you can just purchase regular batteries HUH?? I am all smiles when I am hiking. you are kidding right?? If blaze orange is that important to you, just get a hat to wear all the time that is that color Again folks it appears that we have some one here who is like a VEGAN. Honestly you have to bounce your socks, you are so experienced at hiking that you have to bounce your socks?? You cant make 2 brand new pairs of socks last 250 miles or what ever distance that you know that they last and just send your self a new pair of socks to that location. This is the kind of stuff folks that I am trying to help new or poential thru-hikers to avoid. Dont get into this mindset that I have to have this and have to have that. All that you need are your feet, legs, boots, and backpack and keep hiking Again if you cant survive off of 6 hr old gas station brewed coffee, then you probably should not be hiking the AT. God forbid that you would not be able to find a Starbucks. When I go hiking I am trying to get away from that crap. Life must stink to be addicted to a certain brand of coffee.
OK smiley faces... 39cent envelope with 3 sheets of them in there should get you down the trail pretty far... I dont see the need for a bounce box there. Again folks this is crazy. Good socks dont get holes in them in a few hundred miles unless your shoes dont fit properly or you did not have brand spanking new socks to begin with when you started.



After all of your particular MUST HAVE's I throw in the towell. You need a bounce box... print out this post and stick it in there too so that you dont forget that I said that... In the mean time, those who are fresh to trying this hike who want some sound advice on not being so set in certain ways that it is going to cost you a ton of cash, days off in towns waiting for Tuesday when the PO opens up again from the holiday weekend, and paying postage to mail the same stuff over and over and over again... keep reading this post.

Funny stuff Twofiddy. Are you the same Twofiddy I met in Gorham, NH the year you hiked?? If so, thanks for fixing the bicycles at The Barn.

If you must know, I only carry the socks on my feet and one....just one extra sock....not a pair. I usually get 600 miles out of each pair, but only replace one bad sock at a time......guess you could say I do look for ways to save money after all. :)

Sly
09-01-2006, 15:04
Thanks Max, atleast we agree on something!

TTF, now if he called me a dumpster diver, I'd have to agree! ;)

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 15:05
HA HA HAAAAAA!!!!! Good times man!

TTF

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 15:12
There's good advice. Telling newbies to hike a trail without maps. And according to you "accept the adventure that you are on". Then why do maildrops at all?

Actually, that is my own personal opinion now.

Why do mail drops at all. They are completly not needed except for the 1 I mentioned in my origional post.

However, taking that opinion, I have extensivly researched the topic now to provide others who feel they need the security of that kind of thing, to do so in a cost effective way.

My mail drop technique that I have developed and used on several long distance sections now works great, it cost 90% less than the common knowledge technique that is used by most, and it is just as much fun to plan for as the regular jumbo box type.

Sly
09-01-2006, 15:15
My mail drop technique that I have developed and used on several long distance sections now works great, it cost 90% less than the common knowledge technique that is used by most, and it is just as much fun to plan for as the regular jumbo box type.

So if box that normally cost $25.00 to mail how do you get it down to TwoFiddy? LOL..

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 15:17
Let's do some math: $10 (mine were usually $8 and change) per bounce box ship x 15 towns = $150. This is very conservative because you probably wouldn't ship this to every town and would be less expensive than $10.

Take that $150 and subtract $1000 savings! Twofiddy has just pocketed $850???

...unless I'm missing something of course. Twofiddy...how in world are you coming up with over $1000 in postage?

Happy hiking!

TTF

If you re-read. I did not say that I could save you $1000 in postage. I said that I could save you $1000 total, by not buying in bulk to think that you are saving money, the 3 months later after you have paid to mail all that crap to your self 5 times you decide that you dont want it anymore anyhow and throw it all in a hiker box.

Back in 2003... I watch 2 hikers, hike behind 3 then 2 then 1 other hiker that had huge food and resupply mail drops. Those 2 hikers hiked the entire trail for nearly nothing, no postage no mail drops zilch. All because 3 other people went about it totally the wrong way. Those 3 people paid for the hike of the other 2... I did the same... threw tons of food items away that I did not want to eat, then went to the gas station and bought big bite hot dogs and little debbie snack cakes.

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 15:19
...and if you order the TwoFiddy Method within the next 20 minutes, we're going to send you not ONE...but TWO TwoFiddy Method kits! Order now and save over $2000 on your next thru-hike for just ...$19.99!

DOn't delay! Order NOOOOOOOW!


Happy hiking!

TTF

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 15:20
Funny stuff Twofiddy. Are you the same Twofiddy I met in Gorham, NH the year you hiked?? If so, thanks for fixing the bicycles at The Barn.

If you must know, I only carry the socks on my feet and one....just one extra sock....not a pair. I usually get 600 miles out of each pair, but only replace one bad sock at a time......guess you could say I do look for ways to save money after all. :)
in

OK....... 1 Sock point well made now that I have the details...

That sure was me that met you in GORHAM that fixed all of the bicycles....

Sly's trying to make me out to be the bad guy here and really I am not...

Ever see the famous picture of the retarded racer.... Argueing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.... ever seen that one... it came to my mind just now as I was typing this.

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 15:21
If you re-read. I did not say that I could save you $1000 in postage. I said that I could save you $1000 total, by not buying in bulk to think that you are saving money, the 3 months later after you have paid to mail all that crap to your self 5 times you decide that you dont want it anymore anyhow and throw it all in a hiker box.



Still a huge stretch. You're assuming that everyone will make Newbie errors worth $1000. But...some will (!) and these should be camping on your doorstep for this advice!

Happy hiking!

TTF

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 15:21
...and if you order the TwoFiddy Method within the next 20 minutes, we're going to send you not ONE...but TWO TwoFiddy Method kits! Order now and save over $2000 on your next thru-hike for just ...$19.99!

DOn't delay! Order NOOOOOOOW!


Happy hiking!

TTF

All of my advice is 100% free.
You just have to have the blessing of being in the right place at the right time...

Concord College
2nd full weekend in October

Pacific Tortuga
09-01-2006, 15:23
Your'e kidding, right?

I disagree with just about everything that Sly says...but he ain't no troll.

Your'e actually teaching a course somewhere?! Unbelievable!!!


I will have mail drops a bounce box and do it my way (with helpful tips from WB's) but he does seem pasionate about the mail and his ALDHA postal talk,wish ya luck.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 15:23
Still a huge stretch. You're assuming that everyone will make Newbie errors worth $1000. But...some will (!) and these should be camping on your doorstep for this advice!

Happy hiking!

TTF

Not really a huge stretch.

I had done alot of hiking and other things before I started. I read many books, forums like this were in existance but not like they are today, and the info that was out there on mail drops made it seam like it was what I needed to do. Planning and packing all of those mail drops really just did 1 thing, it gave my grandparents something to do while I was gone to keep track of me. Other than that, the way that I did it was a waste.

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 15:26
Bottom line: you are doing a good thing here, passing on good advice to enhance others' experience. Right ON!

Happy hiking!

TTF

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 15:33
Bottom line: you are doing a good thing here, passing on good advice to enhance others' experience. Right ON!

Happy hiking!

TTF


I wish that some one would have sat me down before I started hiking when digi cams were like $500 and said check this out... all this money that you are gonna spend.... spend it on a camera and do it this way. Instead I used film camera. took 35 rolls of film, have over 500 worthless photos that are out of focus, not colored right, and just plain awful, and I spend hundreds of dollar on the prints and the film and the postage. I have since owned 5 digital cameras (lost a few in rivers and trails etc) and I have taken over 30,000 photos since 2003. All without extra heavy mail drops I might ad.

So good advice is exactly what I am trying to share. I'll argue my point to the T against those who think they need to do Mail Drops Galore and a Huge Bounce Box... because my opinion is completly different.

Effective and Efficient Mail Drops!!

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 15:35
...but you're wrong about the bounce boxes!

LOL!

TTF

Sly
09-01-2006, 15:41
Well I guess we'll just have to go to the seminar to see.

There are cases for and against mail drops. Personally, I'd rather spread the wealth and buy as I go, but there are still places on the trail(s) where mail drops are necessary or recommended. Saving $10 in postage only to spend as much or more on junk food isn't worth it imo.

Also, if you're on a tight budget and buy all you food in bulk beforehand, atleast you'll have food, if not money and should be able to finish.

stumpknocker
09-01-2006, 15:42
So good advice is exactly what I am trying to share. I'll argue my point to the T against those who think they need to do Mail Drops Galore and a Huge Bounce Box... because my opinion is completly different.

Not arguing, just writing what works for me. I'll be the first to agree that my way wouldn't work for most, but it works for me. :)

Thanks for the thread.

Sly is NOT a troll. He's one of the few that have walked forever that I really look up to and admire. Sly, you can send that check to.......Ha!!!!

Time To Fly 97
09-01-2006, 15:46
Well I guess we'll just have to go to the seminar to see.



Exactly. Hi ho, hi ho, with an open mind we go. :cool:

Happy hiking!

TTF

Sly
09-01-2006, 15:48
Sly is NOT a troll. He's one of the few that have walked forever that I really look up to and admire. Sly, you can send that check to....
The MSA or Mutual Admiration Society! I've been slack lately but starting next spring (if not sooner) I'm going on the Stumpknocker Diet!

Alligator
09-01-2006, 15:51
Well I guess we'll just have to go to the seminar to see.

...Depends on where it is in the schedule. His homework skills are lacking if he thinks you're a troll.

Jack Tarlin
09-01-2006, 15:56
My two cents:

*Sly and I agree we shouldn't talk politics when we get together, but I've known him for something like a decade. He's the last thing from a Troll, and I can't think of ten people who know the Trail better than he does.

*I think that for some people, a Bounce Box comes in very handy.

*I think advising newbies to hike ANYWHERE without maps is bad advice.

*For those planning thru-hikes or long hikes, there's a great deal of information in the "Articles" section of this website, including articles on
maildrops, re-supply, how to send and receive mail while hiking, hiking on a budget, etc. I suggest that folks interested in these subjects check this out.

*The ALDHA Gathering is both fun and very useful. I urge folks to check it out if they can, especialy if they're hiking next year. See www.aldha.org for details.

mweinstone
09-01-2006, 16:01
planet earth has had a free box policy since the year 12.

Jack Tarlin
09-01-2006, 16:05
And what about on the planet YOU come from, eh? :D

mweinstone
09-01-2006, 16:24
now,....listen very carfully twofiddy.i want to ask you a question. im very serious now. please .
senario; a newbee at springer in march with not a small feeling of intrepidation. okay. A; he followes your advice mostly. B; he does his own thing. now. when the chips are down and hes spilled his food and wet his bag and two days behind schedual for his first drop. does the fact that he followed your advice or the fact that he did his own thing help or hurt. lets see. if he did what other folks said to do ,let alone you, he would feel less confident in his plans than if he did his own thing even if it was the wrong thing. what matters is arriving at trailhead in a comfortable situation not a forien one.as a teacher you must allow the pupil to fail first . then teach. not the other way around. teaching does not prevent failure. learning does. and as good of a teacher as you are,...you can never compete with exspirience.
and by the way , dont hang out on white blaze as an aggitater unless you do it in jest.that way people like you.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 17:08
now,....listen very carfully twofiddy.i want to ask you a question. im very serious now. please .
senario; a newbee at springer in march with not a small feeling of intrepidation. okay. A; he followes your advice mostly. B; he does his own thing. now. when the chips are down and hes spilled his food and wet his bag and two days behind schedual for his first drop. does the fact that he followed your advice or the fact that he did his own thing help or hurt. lets see. if he did what other folks said to do ,let alone you, he would feel less confident in his plans than if he did his own thing even if it was the wrong thing. what matters is arriving at trailhead in a comfortable situation not a forien one.as a teacher you must allow the pupil to fail first . then teach. not the other way around. teaching does not prevent failure. learning does. and as good of a teacher as you are,...you can never compete with exspirience.
and by the way , dont hang out on white blaze as an aggitater unless you do it in jest.that way people like you.

I never said that you had to follow my advice 100%. My advice is my opinion. Offering a solution to large mail drops filled with oatmeal for in july, oodles of noodles, and waterproof matches in my opinion is a total waste. Seeing a hiker purchase an entire container of boot sealant on the trail to use 2 drops and then pay postage to mail it ahead 5 times is also a waste, it is even a bigger waste to throw that boot sealant in a hiker box and then repeat the process again in the next town.

I have put alot of thought into a way to get everything that one might need, nothing one will not need, and explain carefully what I feel that I have found from my approx 5000 mile backpacking resume. I was not the one that was aggitating here. Just because I dont post alot outside of my own posts and those are few and far between does not mean that I am not here all of the time reading what people write.

As for the small feeling of intrepedation, spilled food, wet bag, 2 days behind some kind of schedule. It happens to 70% of the atemptees every year, they fall off the trail, and go back to mainstream society. The other 30%... it happens to them to at some point along the way, but the figure out how to survive.

My goal is to help more people get from the 70% to the 30% by shedding light on alternative to the normal process of getting there.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 17:12
As for letting people fail first... that is fine. People will still fail. I failed... but the reason that I failed is not because I am a failure... it is because when I researched the subject I did not get good information. I was at the Gathering in 2002 on Sunday, not much went on that day except for tail lights.

I went to the internet, the ATC, the book sources, talked with hikers from 97 98 99 00 01 etc.

Mail Drops seamed like it was the thing everyone did, could not do without, and it was this really important thing in planning my trip.

Actually it turned out to be one of the least important. So many other things could have made my thru-hike that much better.

So this post is going to spark some interest in attending my seminar right??

I'll request a bigger classroom.

Sly
09-01-2006, 17:47
How about a day and time? I don't see you on the schedule...

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 18:20
I will be on the schedule.

I am just not there yet because I did not send them the info on my 2 seminars till just a few weeks, actually days ago.

Thanks

The Old Fhart
09-01-2006, 20:24
Twofitty-Post #1-“Those of you who dont come to the ALDHA Gathering miss out on my excellent seminar on Effective and Efficient mail drops.”

post #60-“I will be on the schedule. I am just not there yet because I did not send them the info on my 2 seminars till just a few weeks, actually days ago.” Am I the only one who sees the irony in these two conflicting statements?:D



Twofitty-Post #13-“I dont suggest that you carry the maps at all. To much weight, and usless information on the maps, plus the expense of the maps to begin with. Hike without a map, accept the adventure that you are on…………….”
Really poor and possibly dangerous advice. You may consider that they contain “useless information” because you don’t understand maps or their value. You probably feel the same way about 1st aid kits and other essential items.


Twofitty-Post #23-
Just FYI folks
SLY=TROLL

Search his username and you will see that he argues in nearly every single post.
Trolls are short ill-tempered creatures and I know Sly from hiking with him, plus meeting him several times, and he is anything but that.;) He is merely pointing out your suggestions seem illogical and you come on like a snake-oil salesman. If you were to actually check his posts you would find that he is always willing to help others with possible answers to their problems.


Twofiddy-“All of my advice is 100% free.” I believe several posters still feel it is still overpriced!:D



Twofitty-"I wish that some one would have sat me down before I started hiking when digi cams were like $500 and said check this out... all this money that you are gonna spend.... spend it on a camera and do it this way. Instead I used film camera. took 35 rolls of film, have over 500 worthless photos that are out of focus, not colored right, and just plain awful, and I spend hundreds of dollar on the prints and the film and the postage."
Funny thing, all my trail photos, many that have been published in books,calendars, and several other places, were taken with a 35mm SLR I carried. The camera, whether film or digital, is like any tool, in the right hands, you get art, in the wrong hands, doo-doo.

One final note..........
One of the best moments I have ever had at Trail Days was sitting on the front porch of Dave’s Place listening to Twofitty pontificate about the A.T. in Maine and what he perceived was wrong with it, and giving his impractical solutions, not realizing he was talking to the editor of the Maine A.T. Guidebook. No one I know has more knowledge or better grasp of facts about the A.T. in Maine than Ray! If you’ve ever seen a skilled chef fillet a fish, you’ll understand what followed when Ray proceeded to set the record straight.:clap

Jack Tarlin
09-01-2006, 20:42
Along those lines, I've been on any number of Search and Rescue missions for ill-equipped and ill-prepared hikers.

Instead of "accepting the adventure" that they had embarked on, all of them, without exception, regretted their decision to travel without maps.

I hope than in your talk to prospective thru-hikers, you consider changing your mind about this.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 21:33
One final note..........
One of the best moments I have ever had at Trail Days was sitting on the front porch of Dave’s Place listening to Twofitty pontificate about the A.T. in Maine and what he perceived was wrong with it, and giving his impractical solutions, not realizing he was talking to the editor of the Maine A.T. Guidebook. No one I know has more knowledge or better grasp of facts about the A.T. in Maine than Ray! If you’ve ever seen a skilled chef fillet a fish, you’ll understand what followed when Ray proceeded to set the record straight.:clap

There are several problems with the AT in Maine. One persons opinion on what could be done there is one persons opinion. I remember our conversation vividly and I still feel that some of the points that I made during that conversation were valid.

TJ aka Teej
09-01-2006, 21:34
One of the best moments I have ever had at Trail Days was sitting on the front porch of Dave’s Place listening to Twofitty pontificate about the A.T. in Maine and what he perceived was wrong with it, and giving his impractical solutions, not realizing he was talking to the editor of the Maine A.T. Guidebook. No one I know has more knowledge or better grasp of facts about the A.T. in Maine than Ray! If you’ve ever seen a skilled chef fillet a fish, you’ll understand what followed when Ray proceeded to set the record straight.:clap

It's always fun to listen to someone who's become an A.T. expert after one five month hike :D

Jack Tarlin
09-01-2006, 21:47
Regarding O.F.'s comments about Walkin Home:

He's right. Except for Teej and Dave Field, I'd listen to Walkin Home's advice about Maine ahead of anyone else on earth.

One person's opinion is indeed one person's opinion.

But with all due respect, some people's opinions stand out in the crowd.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 22:00
Along those lines, I've been on any number of Search and Rescue missions for ill-equipped and ill-prepared hikers.

Instead of "accepting the adventure" that they had embarked on, all of them, without exception, regretted their decision to travel without maps.

I hope than in your talk to prospective thru-hikers, you consider changing your mind about this.

You have to look at America in General Jack.

Thousands and Thousands and Thousands of people had to be herded up on the biggest search and rescue mission ever evacuating New Orleans after the Hurricane. All were ill prepared and ill equipped people. With that number of ill equipped and ill prepared people out there you will find that it is going to be hard to not happen to have a few of them out there on the trails at some point in time.

Needing a Map to hike the AT is like needing a Map to drive on I95. If you have any idea of how to get from one place to another you can hike the AT without a map.

If all AT Hikers goto an AT book store and get books or listen to the opinions of certain folks than they would find out that most of what they were told was old news.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 22:03
It's always fun to listen to someone who's become an A.T. expert after one five month hike :D

I have never ever said that I was an AT Expert.

I have opinions, but I am not and Expert.

I may be an Expert at gear sales, fitment of gear, and I believe that I have researched the mail subject enough to be a current expert on the postal subject.

Twofiddy
09-01-2006, 22:06
It's always fun to listen to someone who's become an A.T. expert after one five month hike :D



There are certain people out there who have hike multiple times that have less useful information to share than certain folks who have only hiked once.

Heck 90% of what I have learned about long distance backpacking that was actually really good information came from some one that has never hike the AT at all. He hikes a small 75 mile trail 2 times a year, and has done so for the last 15 years.

Jack Tarlin
09-01-2006, 22:07
You're absolutely right.

There will always be ill-equipped, and ill-prepared people out there.

And this will continue to be the case, as long as trail veterans who should know better continue to give advice that is neither wise nor prudent.

Telling new-comers they don't need a map in the woods or mountains is, plain and simply, lousy advice.

Sly
09-01-2006, 22:20
I believe that I have researched the mail subject enough to be a current expert on the postal subject.

Well, you don't know the regulations or the rates. It wouldn't surprise me if you suggested hikers use Media Mail.

TJ aka Teej
09-01-2006, 22:24
Needing a Map to hike the AT is like needing a Map to drive on I95. If you have any idea of how to get from one place to another you can hike the AT without a map.

Hi Twofiddy,
Say you're a mile north of Whitecap, and you come across a medical emergency that requires you to go for help. Do you go south? Take the first logging road or the second? Go back over the summit and take the blue blaze? Bushwhack to the sporting camp you think is on that lake over there, if that's the lake you think it is?
Or turn it around, and you're the medical emergency. Wouldn't you want the hiker that found you to be carrying a map and compass?

Sly
09-01-2006, 22:27
Can't you be cited and expected to pay for rescue in NH if you're ill-prepared?

Jack Tarlin
09-01-2006, 22:31
If the Search and Resue is deemed to have been caused by carelessness, satupidity, or ill-preparedness, they can indeed charge you for it in New Hampshire.

And it happens every year.

Incidentally, one of the few things most of these people have in common is either a lack of maps, or the inability to read the ones they have.

The Old Fhart
09-01-2006, 23:05
Twofitty-"You have to look at America in General Jack."Who the hell is "General Jack"?:D


Twofitty-"Thousands and Thousands and Thousands of people had to be herded up on the biggest search and rescue mission ever evacuating New Orleans after the Hurricane. All were ill prepared and ill equipped people."I feel that it is inappropriate for you to compare the natural disaster that happened in New Orleans with hikers knowingly setting out on the A.T. without essential equipment- there is no logic or connection there. It also shows a complete lack of understanding and compassion for the people who's lifes have been destroyed by this natural disaster

Your suggestion that people hike without maps only puts more ill-prepared people on the trail, how do you rationize that paradox?


Twofitty-"Needing a Map to hike the AT is like needing a Map to drive on I95. If you have any idea of how to get from one place to another you can hike the AT without a map."You just don't seem to understand what a map is, or its function, which is sad. I have hiked in the White for decades, climbed Washington countless times, hell, I even worked on the summit for 4 winters, and I always carry a map and compass with me. Having co-instructed the advanced leadership section of the NHAMC's Mountain Safety Workshops for 25 years, we teach the participants to use map and compass correctly and explain their importance.

Perhaps when you say: "I had done alot of hiking and other things before I started. I read many books,...." you skipped the sections on map and compass otherwise you would recognize their importance.;)

Blissful
09-02-2006, 14:01
Telling new-comers they don't need a map in the woods or mountains is, plain and simply, lousy advice.

I agree, but even for "old" comers who think they may know everything, you just never know.

Case in point for us - the Whites. We are up there in dangerous conditions with lightning from a storm that blew up quick and needed to bail out. Our map helped us access a trail as a bail-out point and to avoid a very dangerous situation.

As for needing a map for I 95 - guess one needs to be there on Friday night Labor Day weekend in a tropical storm with an accident just north of D.C. I sure needed my road map for the short cut around the growing "parking lot" yesterday or my son would have missed his BD celebration.

You never know what can happen. As for me, I'd rather tote the map and leave something else at home.

MOWGLI
09-02-2006, 15:20
Twofiddy. After reading this entire thread, here's my advice. You ought to quit while you're behind. ;)

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 16:15
Hi Twofiddy,
Say you're a mile north of Whitecap, and you come across a medical emergency that requires you to go for help. Do you go south? Take the first logging road or the second? Go back over the summit and take the blue blaze? Bushwhack to the sporting camp you think is on that lake over there, if that's the lake you think it is?
Or turn it around, and you're the medical emergency. Wouldn't you nt the hiker that found you to be carrying a map and compass?

I cant believe that you are trying to make this into a who knows best about trail maps post.

My Opinion, they are not needed. My Mail Drop education class teaches a way to get your maps in and Effective and Efficient way.

I am not going to claim to be an expert on the trail one mile north of Whitecap... but I am an expert on a few other things relative to this question, and weather or not I know the trail very well 1 mile north of Whitecap is not relevant. If I am in a situation there, I go with the facts that I know. Having a map with me is not going to affect my process of thinking. While it is a tool that would be helpful in an emergency, so would and AED, a backboard, a stokes basket, a leg splint, bandages, 10 more people to help, and for that matter a bad A$$ locked 4wd amublance to drive very close to where the incident is at. None of which will ever be in my backpack, or my white water raft, or on my bicycle, and only 1 or 2 of the things I listed are packed in my Jeeps and my ski patrol fanny pack.

With all due respect to the credientials that I do have (correct spelling ability not one of them) I will make a point below. First off I am a Virginia/Pennsylvania/and Maryland EMT or EMT basic, I have been a ski patroller for years, and I have extensive first aid experience in what I am going to call limited resource first aid instead of backcountry or wilderness first aid because we dont really have much wilderness or backcountry any place here in the east except for maby the smokies, northern Georgia, or Maine.

If you come upon a medical emergency 1 mile north of Whitecap you stay calm, assist the person the best that you can, and then figure out what is best to do. Even if I have a map, I am damn sure not going to go on a bushwack, and I am not going to travel off onto some logging road or side trail that I dont know where it goes. I am either going to stay on the main thoroughfair or backtrack to what I know exists.


If you come to a medical emergency on I81 in Virginia and you are 12 miles from one interchange, and 4 miles from another and there a little farm house off in the distance where you think that you see a living room light on what do you do then?

Both of these things are exactly the same. The type of people who are there to help are very very different, but still the thinking process is the same. 99% of the people in America are going to do nothing in the interstate example except keep driving and call on there cell phone. AT hikers, or outdoor people in general, are made up of a high percentage of people who fall in the other 1% who might do something above and beyond the norm to help because we are much smarter and more prepaired mentally to deal with the unexpected. Of those people however, you still have to realize that 99% of them are still going to just do what ever they are told to do by the person who takes charge of the situation.

There were hundreds of public school busses parked 5 blocks from the superdome in NOLA before the Hurricane hit. Did anyone think to go get the busses, break the windows, hot wire the busses, and drive all the people out to safety. Nope! Not a single person was able to successfully complete that task.

Busses or Maps the point is the same. Most people dont know how to use them anyhow, and even if they do, they wont because they are to dense to function calmly and logically in that situation. They would rather go with the masses of others and do what they are told to do.

As a matter of fact, on my 03 Thru-Hike, Old Man was hiking with his son and his son fell and either broke his leg or torn things in his knee. This is the son that has Lukeimia (sp). I helped to splint his sons leg with duct tape, hiking poles, clothing, and a water bladder. It was probably more medically necessary to calm his son down and to stabilize his sons condition mentally than treating his physical problem. I then left him with three other hikers to run ahead to a road crossing, or to a place with better cellular phone service to call for help. There were maps avaliable, of logging roads that might have been a shorter distance, but when you get to the end of the logging road, no one knows what kind of situation you are going to find unless you have been there before. It made more sense to run the 16 miles to Clingmans Dome, or to another place where you could communicate with others who had actually hiked in from a side trail that could give a first hand account of how far it was to get to help.

So maps are not going to help or hinder my ability to think in a moment of crisis 1 mile north of Whitecap reagrdless of how quickly you can be at a road crossing via a side trail or logging road.

99.99% of all people who ever set foot on the Appalachian Trail are never going to be experts of even a measly 1 mile of the trail in any one given location. That does not mean that they cant have an opinion about sections of the trail in general, and that does not mean that they cant offer educated, researched advice to others on how to go about the process of finding a way to go hiking for a weekend, a week, and month, or six months.

I wish that as I had sought out opinions and other things before I attempted a first Thru-Hike that I had people who were bouncing fresh current ideas off of me instead of old outdated techniques from the elder hiking crowd that is still set in the way the hiked in 1978.

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 16:38
Who the hell is "General Jack"?:D

Pardon my misuse of a capital letter... should have just read American in general Jack... although it kinda has a ring... nevermind.



I feel that it is inappropriate for you to compare the natural disaster that happened in New Orleans with hikers knowingly setting out on the A.T. without essential equipment- there is no logic or connection there. It also shows a complete lack of understanding and compassion for the people who's lifes have been destroyed by this natural disaster

Just to set the record straigt, I have no lack of understainding for the situation or lack of compassion for the people involved. From 900 miles away I was very involved in alot of things in the aftermath of what happened. I provided equipment and other items for use during the aftermath.

Your statement above is not correct about who/what I compared. I did not compare a natural disaster to hikers. I compared people affected by the natural disaster to hikers, and actually I compared them to 99% of the people in american in general, so I actually contrasted them against hikers or outdoor people. To not realize that we as a general public in this country are like sitting ducks waiting to be told what to do next is some kind of joke. The public has grown to rely on what they are told to do, what day or days of the month to check the mail box for there checks, what foods they can buy with food stamps, what kind and color of car they should buy. People have lost the ability to think and function for them selves.




Your suggestion that people hike without maps only puts more ill-prepared people on the trail, how do you rationize that paradox?

Precisly the logic behind the point of this post to begin with. To help those who are not fully preparied to understand how to become more so on the topic of re-supply and other things. Trust me, there are alot of opinions that I probably have that you are not going to agree with, that does not mean that I have not sat and though about those things to explain to hikers how to take advantage of different methods of re-supply.

Ill preparied people, weather they have maps or not, should not be on backcountry hiking trails. Explanation!!




You just don't seem to understand what a map is, or its function, which is sad. I have hiked in the White for decades, climbed Washington countless times, hell, I even worked on the summit for 4 winters, and I always carry a map and compass with me. Having co-instructed the advanced leadership section of the NHAMC's Mountain Safety Workshops for 25 years, we teach the participants to use map and compass correctly and explain their importance.

Going into the white mountains without a brain inside your head is worse than going without maps. Anyone can find shelter in a thunderstorm, anyone knows how much clothing they should have to keep warm on a snowy july day, or how to cope with either situation if they have a brain. As I stated above in my hurricane contrast, it bothers me that so many people who were ill-prepaired for the NOLA hurricane in that they did not buy a car and a road map to know how to evacuate before the situation. Perhaps those of you who are trying to make the trail a safer place by demanding that all hikers learn how to take and use maps would be much more effective at influencing the 99% of the general public that does not have a clue. As for the 1% that might be hikers, I think that they can decide for themselves weather to carry maps or not and if they chose to, I can still offer advice to them on how to save money mailing them to places along the trail.


Perhaps when you say: "I had done alot of hiking and other things before I started. I read many books,...." you skipped the sections on map and compass otherwise you would recognize their importance.;)

I did read the sections on mail drops, and they were completly wrong for a current day hike... they were more appropriate for some one hiking in the 1980's

ed bell
09-02-2006, 16:46
Hey Twofiddy, considering that maps weigh next to nothing, and considering that you say in your course that you can help people use the mail to obtain the maps they want, why discourage it? I will admit that over 50% of hikers cannot use a map properly. That is a sad fact. How about encouraging map skills? Maybe I am just ranting here, but I just don't get it.

Panzer1
09-02-2006, 16:59
Postal service gives free Priority Mail Boxes to anyone who ships priority mail. If you need to ship another way, disassemble the box and turn it inside out and you have a plain brown box.

I found the following regulation in the Post Office Domestic Mail manual. It seems to indicate that you cannot use their Priority mail box for any other purpose.
Panzer


6.0 Mailing Containers—Special Types of Envelopes and Packaging

6.1 Express Mail and Priority Mail Packaging

Express Mail and Priority Mail packaging provided by the USPS must be used only for Express Mail or Priority Mail, as applicable. Regardless of how the packaging is reconfigured or how markings may be obliterated, any matter mailed in USPS-provided Express Mail or Priority Mail packaging is charged the appropriate Express Mail or Priority Mail rate.

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:07
Wouldn't the map tell you where this logging road or trail goes?

I will agree with some comments made here that everyone should know how to read a map, and should know how to at least get direction straight based on a compass, but that is a fantasy that simply will never come true.


So Lets a place that I am familiar with... take the road out of Sugar Run Gap past Woods Hole Hostel for an example.

It is several miles to a road where you just might find some one in a car, or maby you could wait for hours to find a passing car to get help. You might be better served to slack pack and run into Pearisburg where you are gonna hit a busy roadway in the center of town for help. Not saying that this is 100% the best way to go because there might be a hostel open on that other road 2 miles away but what if it were not in season for that hostel?? What if a bridge was out on the other road that you did not know about because things like that happen... You could be on a wild good chase and once you are off the map you dont have a clue.

I wont even start to discuss breaking into a private residence to look for a phone, that would fire up the crowd again about doing something illegal.

There are several logging roads that goto old gates and onto what are supposed to be slightly improved roadways that are nothing more than a continuance of the logging road for many more miles and then you might come to a sparsly traveled country road. Rule number one is never put your self in danger to help some one else. Dont become the second victim. Wandering off the trail, even if you are following features of a map, could be putting your self in danger if so many people dont know how to use maps properly like one poster says.

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:09
Hey Twofiddy, considering that maps weigh next to nothing, and considering that you say in your course that you can help people use the mail to obtain the maps they want, why discourage it? I will admit that over 50% of hikers cannot use a map properly. That is a sad fact. How about encouraging map skills? Maybe I am just ranting here, but I just don't get it.


I am not going to discourage map skills.
I am not going to encourage carring maps on an AT Hike either, as I still feel that they are not necesary.

We all have our differences.

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:18
I found the following regulation in the Post Office Domestic Mail manual. It seems to indicate that you cannot use their Priority mail box for any other purpose.
Panzer


6.0 Mailing Containers—Special Types of Envelopes and Packaging

6.1 Express Mail and Priority Mail Packaging

Express Mail and Priority Mail packaging provided by the USPS must be used only for Express Mail or Priority Mail, as applicable. Regardless of how the packaging is reconfigured or how markings may be obliterated, any matter mailed in USPS-provided Express Mail or Priority Mail packaging is charged the appropriate Express Mail or Priority Mail rate.

I am not going to legal eagle the statment above except to say that what this means is that if you take the blue and white box in they are going to charge you priority mail postage rate. If you turn the box inside out and apply the label over the faint ink inside it would not be visible to the post master or another carrier. Additionally, the provision is vauge because it does not specify what is to be done with priority mail boxes after they are used once, so you better not try to recycle a priority mail box that has been already used either then I guess....

I can teach people how to point a gun at a bank teller too... That does not mean that they are going to go out and do it. Each person makes his/her own decision.

ed bell
09-02-2006, 17:21
I will agree with some comments made here that everyone should know how to read a map, and should know how to at least get direction straight based on a compass, but that is a fantasy that simply will never come true.If you expect to be respected as a teacher, then tossing map skills aside as a fantasy and advocating they be left at home is probably not a good idea. You know I really wanted to stay out of this thread, but I'm only responding because of my gut reaction to some things that were posted. I think the cardboard box thing really got my attention. Yeah, its just a small theft, but I'd bet you would be pissed if someone suggested ways to defraud your website to get things for free. I'm not trying to throw white gas on a fire here, I'm just commenting on what I have read in this thread.

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:21
Oh and by the way...

One real popular lady on here who runs a hostel... she had a hiker box last year that was a priority mail box... I guess that she is doing something illegal too.

Who is to say that you cant mail it one way first, and then mail it priority mail in the future. That would be the same as mailing your package to the White House Landing, and then they charge you $10 for hauling your package from PO to the resort. (they dont do mail anymore but still when the did) That would be illegal to because a private carrier hauled a priority mail box.

ed bell
09-02-2006, 17:25
I am not going to discourage map skills.
I am not going to encourage carring maps on an AT Hike either, as I still feel that they are not necesary.

We all have our differences.By doing the second you are doing the first. That is all I am saying. We do have differences. No biggie. Best to you Twofiddy.:sun

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:25
If you expect to be respected as a teacher, then tossing map skills aside as a fantasy and advocating they be left at home is probably not a good idea. You know I really wanted to stay out of this thread, but I'm only responding because of my gut reaction to some things that were posted. I think the cardboard box thing really got my attention. Yeah, its just a small theft, but I'd bet you would be pissed if someone suggested ways to defraud your website to get things for free. I'm not trying to throw white gas on a fire here, I'm just commenting on what I have read in this thread.

Just FYI...
The maildrop seminar got excellent reviews written about it last year. Many hikers found the information to be "accurate" and "excellent and up to date" and "wow I never knew that the postal service had so many things to offer" and other things were the written on both the critique forms and were sent to me in e-mail by folks who attended.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-02-2006, 17:26
One thing experienced hikers always seem to forget is how they got experienced in the first place.
Some of the worst advice on WB comes from the most experienced of us, like hiking without maps, going 7 miles with no water, not carrying shelter, duct tape, spare socks. All of these things have been alluded to one time or another.
One thing I admire about Jack is that he has never forgotten what it was like to be new and inexperienced. His advice is always geared as if the person he is talking to has no hiking knowledge, and then he cranks it up as he discovers their level.

2-50, posting that hiking the AT without a map is flat out irresponsible. It's like saying "Shed the first aid kit, it's heavy and you dont need it." If you dont want to, fine, but dont give it like its good advice. It's not. Could you live with yourself is someone died because of your sage advice?

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:31
One thing experienced hikers always seem to forget is how they got experienced in the first place.
Some of the worst advice on WB comes from the most experienced of us, like hiking without maps, going 7 miles with no water, not carrying shelter, duct tape, spare socks. All of these things have been alluded to one time or another.
One thing I admire about Jack is that he has never forgotten what it was like to be new and inexperienced. His advice is always geared as if the person he is talking to has no hiking knowledge, and then he cranks it up as he discovers their level.

2-50, posting that hiking the AT without a map is flat out irresponsible. It's like saying "Shed the first aid kit, it's heavy and you dont need it." If you dont want to, fine, but dont give it like its good advice. It's not. Could you live with yourself is someone died because of your sage advice?


First Aid kit is completly needed. Only thing in mine is a knife, duct tape, and pain pills, and it is not actually a kit since my knife is in my food bowl, my duct tape is on my hiking stick, and my pain pills are in with my tooth brush... Honestly, what else in the first aid kit do you need?? Oh wait... that should be in another post... BECAUSE THIS POST WAS ABOUT MAIL DROPS, not about maps, or sections of the trail, or anything for that matter.

I am completly satisfied with my ability to answer each of those issues in this post... but as I stated to begin with posting a reply to this post about "suggesting that hikers dont carry maps" or asking "what are hikers supposed to do with extra maps" IS TROLLING!!!

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:33
By doing the second you are doing the first. That is all I am saying. We do have differences. No biggie. Best to you Twofiddy.:sun

That would be like saying that I dont think that you need an elaborate first aid kit, so you should not worry about any kind of first aid skills either.

Having the ability to know how to use duct tape and a patch of cloth as a bandaid is the same thing as knowing what to do if you dont have a map.

ed bell
09-02-2006, 17:34
Just FYI...
The maildrop seminar got excellent reviews written about it last year. Many hikers found the information to be "accurate" and "excellent and up to date" and "wow I never knew that the postal service had so many things to offer" and other things were the written on both the critique forms and were sent to me in e-mail by folks who attended.Hey bud, I have no issue about your seminar in general. Sounds like your feedback has been good. Nice job. All I have done here is talk about some points in context with this thread. Other than that, I don't know you from Threefiddy.:D;)

ed bell
09-02-2006, 17:35
That would be like saying that I dont think that you need an elaborate first aid kit, so you should not worry about any kind of first aid skills either.

Having the ability to know how to use duct tape and a patch of cloth as a bandaid is the same thing as knowing what to do if you dont have a map.I'm not gonna touch that one.:cool:

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:36
So they should follow your "expert" advice to a "T"?

Nope, they should consider it... along with other advice... and figure out how to think for themselves.

90% of what I now think about mail drops, no one, no book, no elder hiker, no outfitter store, no postal employee, not one single person, ever shared with me before I planned for a thru-hike

Twofiddy
09-02-2006, 17:40
Hey bud, I have no issue about your seminar in general. Sounds like your feedback has been good. Nice job. All I have done here is talk about some points in context with this thread. Other than that, I don't know you from Threefiddy.:D;)

Funny thing how of all the posters here, that only 1 or 2 people actually say anything good... Everyone else is trying to be an expert at there own little world...

It is so sad that certain people on this forum take posts like this and take them completly off topic so that the class of 07 has to read all this BS to find something useful.

If I dont get my orthopedic problems taken care of and get the ability to stand up straight and walk normal again I might be known as THREEFIDDY... and I had the name before the cartoon Southpark ever existed:sun :sun

Amigi'sLastStand
09-02-2006, 19:11
Dude, you are irresponsible at best and dangerous at worst.

stumpknocker
09-02-2006, 23:12
Holy Smokes Twofiddy.......I go for a walk today on The Foothills Trail and come back tonight and see that you are still going at it.

This post looks like it WILL be good for the '07 thru's. They can read differing opinions and make up their own minds.

As for your mail seminar at The Gathering, I'll see you there and see if I can learn anything, but like you said earlier.....I'm set in my ways and I really do need a bounce box. :)

Sly
09-02-2006, 23:25
Oh and by the way...

One real popular lady on here who runs a hostel... she had a hiker box last year that was a priority mail box... I guess that she is doing something illegal too.
You have trouble reading? Its when you mail a PM box other than PM it's against the regulations.


Who is to say that you cant mail it one way first, and then mail it priority mail in the future. That would be the same as mailing your package to the White House Landing, and then they charge you $10 for hauling your package from PO to the resort. (they dont do mail anymore but still when the did) That would be illegal to because a private carrier hauled a priority mail box.
The postal regulations!

6.1 Express Mail and Priority Mail Packaging

Express Mail and Priority Mail packaging provided by the USPS must be used only for Express Mail or Priority Mail, as applicable. Regardless of how the packaging is reconfigured or how markings may be obliterated, any matter mailed in USPS-provided Express Mail or Priority Mail packaging is charged the appropriate Express Mail or Priority Mail rate.

Big Oz
09-03-2006, 00:24
and talk about minnisota smith. and your right. maps dont help on the super highway of the at. its as easy to navigate as any road. all you need is the data book and pages from the handbook. oh and by the way,.... you'll never guess who called,.... yep,....... your goast called.................... this quack's still on the trail,i figured you would get run over by now with a car at a trail crossing.:rolleyes:

Panzer1
09-03-2006, 00:26
Additionally, the provision is vauge because it does not specify what is to be done with priority mail boxes after they are used once, so you better not try to recycle a priority mail box that has been already used either then I guess....


I would agree that in spirit if you took a free priority mail box and then mailed something priority mail that the postage would somehow include the cost of the free priority box. After paying that postage If you then reused the box for something else at least you can say that you have already paid for the box and that you were not trying to get something for free. I have nothing against recycling boxes either. However, the post office may not see it that may. They tend to be strict about these kind of things.

Panzer

Sly
09-03-2006, 00:45
You can recylce PM boxes all you want, you just can't send them through the mail any other way, used or not, without breaking PS regulations.

The box isn't for sale, so thinking your paying for it the 1st time it's sent PM isn't true. If that weren't the case you'd be entitled to a rebate if you used your own brown box. They're a courtesy for PM customers.

It's not that hard to find free brown boxes at home or on the trail. There's no need to *steal* from the PO or any other business on the trail.

Jack Tarlin
09-03-2006, 12:56
A final comment about maps:

Fiddy, people that are questioning you on this aren't trolls, it's a perfectly legitimate issue. And it was you yourself (see Post #13) that initiated the "Maps aren't necessary!" discussion, and you did indeed imply that they were needless weight, a needless expense, and contained useless informaton.

Calling people "trolls" who happen to disagree with you isn't a very strong debating point.

Note to new folks or those planning to hike next year, especially those who won't be attending the Gathering:

There is a great deal of information on maildrops, bounce boxes, and re-supply techniques if you look in the "Articles" section of this website.

SGT Rock
09-03-2006, 13:04
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=366

In case you couldn't find them.

Article specific to mail drops:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/article.php?p=95199&postcount=1

Heater
09-03-2006, 16:01
My goal is to help more people get from the 70% to the 30% by shedding light on alternative to the normal process of getting there.

Well then what's the big secret? Spell it out. What's the deal?
:confused:
I am sure a lot of people here would like to know.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 00:42
Well then what's the big secret? Spell it out. What's the deal?
:confused:
I am sure a lot of people here would like to know.

The others are suggesting that you use the search function, and click through countless links to find what you need... and by then if you have not formed 50 opinions on ways to do it that are not exactly up to date on all of the specific information, then away you go spending your money.

Let me give you one quick example, last one in this post, till at least after the Gathering (idea behind this post was more to draw people's attention to the Gathering (after last years low attendance due to weather and gas prices I would assume) that maby if more people hiking next year were aware of such an info session type event it would be good for the organization. Attention this post has definatly gotten....

Here is the example. Mailed from Chicago IL to Port Clinton PA.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Take 3 boxes side by side that measure into an 9" cube.
__________________________________________________ ___________
Box #1 you paid $1.49 for at Wal-Mart to purchase
Box #1 you packed full of 12 lbs worth of stuff.
Box #1 you packed full of $30 worth of stuff.
Box #1 cost you $15.80 for Priority Mail Shipping from Chicago.

Box #1 you may decide to throw $8 worth of stuff in hiker box at Port Clinton Pennsylvania when you hike through because you dont need it, dont want it, dont like to eat it any more, or better yet you missed the post office all together on a Sunday (but I'm still gonna call it an $8 loss)
Box #1 was $18 short of fulfilling your simple re-supply needs at Port Clinton (major gear purchase, hot meals in town, other town amentities excluded adds up to a $26 swing shortage on this box.



Total for this Mail Drop.
$01.49
$30.00
$15.80
$18.00

$65.20 for this mail drop is the total, but remember the $26 swing shortage.

Box #2 you packed full of 12 lbs worth of stuff.
Box #2 you packed full of $30 worth of stuff.
Box #2 you took my advice and shipped in a flat rate box very close in size to the 9x9 cube for $8.10


Box #1 you may decide to throw $8 worth of stuff in hiker box at Port Clinton Pennsylvania when you hike through because you dont need it, dont want it, dont like to eat it any more, or better yet you missed the post office all together on a Sunday (but I'm still gonna call it an $8 loss)
Box #1 was $18 short of fulfilling your simple re-supply needs at Port Clinton (major gear purchase, hot meals in town, other town amentities excluded adds up to a $26 swing shortage on this box.




Total for this Mail Drop.
$30.00
$08.10
$18.00

$57.19 for this mail drop is the total, but remember the $26 swing shortage.
SAVED YOU approx $10 on this mail drop. Add that up for 12-15 mail drops and I just saved you $150.

BOX#3
Box #3 you decided to use my packing technique and advice and packed full of 2 lbs worth of stuff.
Box #3 you packed full of $5 worth of stuff, that will actually have a value in Port Clinton of $20, Plust $15 on the Swing Shortage Here.
Box #1 cost you $5.65 for Priority Mail Shipping from Chicago.

Box #3 you may decide to throw next to nothing away and my technique picked you up $15 on the swing as noted above.
Box #1 was $25 short of fulfilling your simple re-supply needs at Port Clinton, because my technique for the most part does not include mailing food (major gear purchase, hot meals in town, other town amentities excluded adds up to a $10 swing shortage on this mail drop)



Total for this Mail Drop.

$05.00
$05.65

$25.00
$35.65 for this mail drop is the total, but remember the $10 swing shortage was down from $26.


THIS ADDS UP TO A WHOPPING SAVINGS OF $433 on 12-15 mail drops.
Lets say you miss BOX#3 all together on a Sunday and you just get groceries and keep hiking, you only lost $5, again even another way to save$$

Now I have several other techniques to save you on gear shipments, small box bounce boxing, and many many other things that will add up to huge savings and possibly hundreds of dollars more in postage and other things.

You will have to come to the Gathering for the technique that I speak of.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 00:46
AW FOOEY!!

Please note that the box descriptions above are broken down into BOX#1 BOX #2 and BOX #3 by color. I have typos in the descriptions of the boxes and I dont have the edit function with my membership here for WB... I pay for advertising but that does not get me an EDIT BUTTON!!

I'll repost it correctly below.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 00:51
__________________________________________________ ___________

Take 3 boxes side by side that measure into apprx 9" cube or similar shape.
__________________________________________________ ___________
Box #1 you paid $1.49 for at Wal-Mart to purchase
Box #1 you packed full of 12 lbs worth of stuff.
Box #1 you packed full of $30 worth of stuff.
Box #1 cost you $15.80 for Priority Mail Shipping from Chicago.

Box #1 you may decide to throw $8 worth of stuff in hiker box at Port Clinton Pennsylvania when you hike through because you dont need it, dont want it, dont like to eat it any more, or better yet you missed the post office all together on a Sunday (but I'm still gonna call it an $8 loss)
Box #1 was $18 short of fulfilling your simple re-supply needs at Port Clinton (major gear purchase, hot meals in town, other town amentities excluded adds up to a $26 swing shortage on this box not to mention the extra postage that you paid for the stuff that you threw in the hiker box.

Total for this Mail Drop BOX #1
$01.49
$30.00
$15.80
$18.00

$65.20 for this mail drop is the total, but remember the $26 swing shortage.

__________________________________________________ ____________
BOX #2
Box #2 you packed full of 12 lbs worth of stuff.
Box #2 you packed full of $30 worth of stuff.
Box #2 you took my advice and shipped in a flat rate box very close in size to the 9x9 cube for $8.10


Box #2 you may decide to throw $8 worth of stuff in hiker box at Port Clinton Pennsylvania when you hike through because you dont need it, dont want it, dont like to eat it any more, or better yet you missed the post office all together on a Sunday (but I'm still gonna call it an $8 loss)
Box #2 was $18 short of fulfilling your simple re-supply needs at Port Clinton (major gear purchase, hot meals in town, other town amentities excluded adds up to a $26 swing shortage on this box.

Total for this Mail Drop.
$30.00
$08.10
$18.00

$56.50 for this mail drop is the total, but remember the $26 swing shortage.
SAVED YOU approx $10 on this mail drop. Add that up for 12-15 mail drops and I just saved you $150.

__________________________________________________ ________
BOX#3
Box #3 you decided to use my packing technique and advice and packed full of 2 lbs worth of stuff.
Box #3 you packed full of $5 worth of stuff, that will actually have a value in Port Clinton of $20, Plust $15 on the Swing Shortage Here.
Box #3 cost you $5.65 for Priority Mail Shipping from Chicago.

Box #3 you may decide to throw next to nothing away and my technique picked you up $15 on the swing as noted above.
Box #3 was $25 short of fulfilling your simple re-supply needs at Port Clinton, because my technique for the most part does not include mailing food (major gear purchase, hot meals in town, other town amentities excluded adds up to a $10 swing shortage on this mail drop)



Total for this Mail Drop.

$05.00
$05.65
$25.00
$35.65 for this mail drop is the total, but remember the $10 swing shortage was down from $26.


THIS ADDS UP TO A WHOPPING SAVINGS OF $433 on 12-15 mail drops.
Lets say you miss BOX#3 all together on a Sunday and you just get groceries and keep hiking, you only lost $5, again even another way to save$$

Now I have several other techniques to save you on gear shipments, small box bounce boxing, and many many other things that will add up to huge savings and possibly hundreds of dollars more in postage and other things.

You will have to come to the Gathering for the technique that I speak of.


Sorry for the double post... I was not done editing the last one when I clicked submit...

Sly
09-04-2006, 06:06
Looks like voodoo economics.

I suggest you bring the articles (12 lbs of hiker food) show how they fit in such a small flat fee PM box box, give examples of what you'd actually throw away.

Oh yeah, you can't buy anything in Port Clinton.

Time for work....

Heater
09-04-2006, 12:23
The others are suggesting that you use the search function, and click through countless links to find what you need...

...and they would be right! ;)

What do you have to add to Baltimore Jack's or Weather Carrot's very fine articles that would be helpful?

Helpfulness is what the aforementioned articles were designed to do.
Why must you put a motive into it? I do not think anyone will make a special trip or change their plans for one specific presentation.
If you wanted to wait until after the gathering, you should have done so.
I think I can gather everything I need to know from the great articles posted on this site. ;)

My sincere thanks to those that have already contributed.:clap

If you think otherwise, put up! :D

MOWGLI
09-04-2006, 16:07
Oh yeah, you can't buy anything in Port Clinton.



Is candy nothing? Or has the candy shop closed?

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 16:14
Looks like voodoo economics.

Oh yeah, you can't buy anything in Port Clinton.

Time for work....

I have re-supplied in Port Clinton several times. The outfitter store carries some stuff, and the hitch to the Cabela's shopping centers is easy as 123 to get to a grocery store. So you might not be able to buy anything in Port Clinton... but just a few miles east of the trail you can buy the whole world almost.

Jack Tarlin
09-04-2006, 16:18
The small Outfitter in Port Clinton has, in fact, closed.

Cabelas is primarily a hunting/fishing/car camping store, but it does have a few things hikers may need.

Getting a ride to the supermarket in nearby Hamburg is not difficult.

However, a small food drop here might not be a bad idea unless you want to hitch.

And the prudent hiker would take care of gear issues, especially footwear issues, in Harpers Ferry.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 16:25
Looks like voodoo economics.

I suggest you bring the articles (12 lbs of hiker food) show how they fit in such a small flat fee PM box box, give examples of what you'd actually throw away.

Time for work....

Just posing an honest question or 2 or 3 in the same form back at you SLY.

Why would I?? or Should I?? stand in front of people en regergitate what I feel is a default method to send your self mail drops?? I could easily do that. I have everything here to pack such a mail drop that has that kind of weight to it, and is that "BIG of a WASTE" that I feel that it is.

I also have all of the things here that are needed to pack the lighter version on mail drops that I feel would work better for most people, that is obviously what I am definatly bringing with me to present with.

How effective is it to stand in front of people and show them what I feel is the wrong way that they can get from just about any place vs just showing them my "opinion" more efficient techniques that I have worked on to help save people money, vs showing them both.

The amout of time given, usually 1.5-1.75 hours for the seminar is hardly enough to get through all of the info anyhow, and the most effective parts of these sessions are usually the 30 min of question and answer at the end anyhow.

Sly, I am asking the questions of you, but then again when I think about it I am not sure why I am asking you as I am assuming that you are in the part of the crowd here that thinks that they know exactly how to re-supply or to pack mail drops.

For those of you who are still researching this subject what do you want to hear about... both techniques, just my narrowed technique that I think is more Effective and Efficient, or a compare and contrast of the 2??

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 16:32
The small Outfitter in Port Clinton has, in fact, closed.

Cabelas is primarily a hunting/fishing/car camping store, but it does have a few things hikers may need.

Getting a ride to the supermarket in nearby Hamburg is not difficult.

However, a small food drop here might not be a bad idea unless you want to hitch.

And the prudent hiker would take care of gear issues, especially footwear issues, in Harpers Ferry.

Jack,
I saw alot of Kayak and Fishing stuff from Port Clinton on Ebay earlier this summer. I wondered if Vern had closed?? When I was through there in August of 05 there was still a sign of the building and there was definatly gear still visible through the windows. I hated to see Cabela's open there, I knew that it would kill his business. I have tried very hard to figure out how to open a brick and moarter store on the trail. However I have not jumped into several opportunites in towns from the deep south to NH because the numbers just did not crunch right to be successful. Vern ran a damn good small store there. Makes me sick to think that just this morning I blew $115 at Walmart for Paint for the second floor of my current project house. I buy it there because it is $5 cheaper per gallon than any other store and it is $12 per gallon cheaper than the local Westmoreland Supply Paint and Decorating Center that is locally owned. I hate the Wal-mart mentality, but on some things you just cant beat them...

Jack Tarlin
09-04-2006, 16:36
Fiddy---

I know you think people are jumping on you, but maybe it's the tone of some of your posts.

For example, Sly happens to be an authority on maildrops, and knows exactly how to pack them mainly because he's a triple-crowner of the three largest American backpacking Trails; he's amassed thousands of miles on the A.T.; and has been hiking on the A.T. and elsewhere for decades.

So if you're going to imply that someone doesn't know what they're talking about on this issue, you'd do better to find another target.

Now I'll say something that's been on my mind for awhile: I gotta be perfectly frank with you on this one. In that you've several times suggested on this thread that people plan on doing without certain items that most outdoor experts and ALL outdoor safety experts consider to be a vital piece of gear......well, in all honesty, I'm personally kinda concerned about some of the other things you'll be advising people. In the first post on this thread, you told folks that your talk at the Gathering in October would be "excellent."

Well, I sure hope so. Cuz in complete honesty, some of the advice you're posting in September is just plain lousy.

For folks planning their trips, especially looking for such information on such things as maildrops, bounce boxes, re-supply techniques and locations, etc., I hope you go to several different sources for your information.

I think you'll discover that some of these sources are better than others.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 16:41
...and they would be right!
What do you have to add to Baltimore Jack's or Weather Carrot's very fine articles that would be helpful?

Helpfulness is what the aforementioned articles were designed to do.
Why must you put a motive into it? I do not think anyone will make a special trip or change their plans for one specific presentation.
If you wanted to wait until after the gathering, you should have done so.
I think I can gather everything I need to know from the great articles posted on this site. ;)

My sincere thanks to those that have already contributed.

If you think otherwise, put up!


I am not going to ridicule anything that Jack has to say as I respect most of what he has to say and he knows that. However, his hiking style, his gear selection, his supplies in his pack :banana :banana are very different from the A typical hiker. If most people hiked with the exact setup and followed Jacks exact method of hiking they would not make it very far. Jack has been doing this so long that he has developed a style that coudl only be the result of years of living on the trail.


As for some one not making a special trip for a special presentation... Lets just cancle the gathering all together then. Lets not try to get people to come to the event. Lets all get our webcams hooked up and all the cyber hikers can contra-dance in there own living room on webcam. You should not come to the Gathering just for my presentation, you should come for every thing, because it is worth every second of your time and ever cent of gasoline that spend to get there.

:sun

Jack Tarlin
09-04-2006, 16:53
I second what Fiddy has just said: The Gathering is a great event, and there will be all sorts of events geared for prospective thru-hikers.

I attended my first Gathering the October before my first thru-hike, and I had a wonderful time.

If it's at all possible for folks to attend, they should really try to do so.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 16:56
Fiddy---

I know you think people are jumping on you, but maybe it's the tone of some of your posts.

For example, Sly happens to be an authority on maildrops, and knows exactly how to pack them mainly because he's a triple-crowner of the three largest American backpacking Trails; he's amassed thousands of miles on the A.T.; and has been hiking on the A.T. and elsewhere for decades.



Jack, I am happy for Sly that he is a triple crowner. The problem is in the last statement. "AND ELSEWHERE FOR DECADES" Since I work in the outdoor business, and keeping up with what is completly current is 100% relevant to staying in business, for an example know that frame pack are out, that Mountain Smith is not on the trail anymore after being an awesome pack just a few years ago, and knowing all the other current little things about a niche or 2 that are completly current... That is important.

Personally, I am frustrated with the people who spread advice that is OLD SCHOOL. It is the number 1 reason that motivates me to speak on mail drops. I got old school advice, and it cost me tons of money.


So if you're going to imply that someone doesn't know what they're talking about on this issue, you'd do better to find another target.


Fresh info Jack... just because you know how to tune a 2 barrell inline six Jeep motor from 1985 does not make you an expert on figuring out why you have cylinder misfire in a 2002 Jeep inline six... you have to be fresh on new stuff some times. Some times a fresh new mind set is better than Old School. Not that Old School does not have reliable, tried and true virtues that are timless, but that something new and fresh might be better for you.



Now I'll say something that's been on my mind for awhile: I gotta be perfectly frank with you on this one. In that you've several times suggested on this thread that people plan on doing without certain items that most outdoor experts and ALL outdoor safety experts consider to be a vital piece of gear......well, in all honesty, I'm personally kinda concerned about some of the other things you'll be advising people. In the first post on this thread, you told folks that your talk at the Gathering in October would be "excellent."

I am an outdoor expert. I have the experience and resume to prove it. I have been there when people have been killed, drown, been hurt or injured, I have thru-hiked the AT (as measly of an accomplishment as you guys want to make it) and several other shorter trails in the mid-atlantic states and I have logged 5000 miles including my AT hike. My expert opinion is what it is on certain subjects. Disagree with me all that you want, but it is my opinion, and I will give you reasons to support my opinion regardless of how many reasons you can give me otherwise.


Well, I sure hope so. Cuz in complete honesty, some of the advice you're posting in September is just plain lousy.

As lousy as it is, I get nothing but positive feedback from those that I have helped. So it cant be as lousy as you suggest.


For folks planning their trips, especially looking for such information on such things as maildrops, bounce boxes, re-supply techniques and locations, etc., I hope you go to several different sources for your information.

I think you'll discover that some of these sources are better than others.

Great Advice.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 17:01
I second what Fiddy has just said: The Gathering is a great event, and there will be all sorts of events geared for prospective thru-hikers.

I attended my first Gathering the October before my first thru-hike, and I had a wonderful time.

If it's at all possible for folks to attend, they should really try to do so.

Quite possibly the best reply to this post yet!!:banana :sun :banana :sun

Sly
09-04-2006, 17:09
Jack, I am happy for Sly that he is a triple crowner. The problem is in the last statement. "AND ELSEWHERE FOR DECADES" Since I work in the outdoor business, and keeping up with what is completly current is 100% relevant to staying in business, for an example know that frame pack are out, that Mountain Smith is not on the trail anymore after being an awesome pack just a few years ago, and knowing all the other current little things about a niche or 2 that are completly current... That is important.
I've kept current for the last 10 years. My gear has changed as has my strategy. I'll match what you sell anyday.

So far, you've suggested mail drops are a waste, yet you're doing a seminar on the very same subject. You've suggested maps are a waste, when they've been known to save lives. You've suggested bend the rules and use PM boxes when they shouldn't be. You've suggested people spend $1.49 for a box at Walmart when they can get them forr free from any grocery store. You've suggested spending money for PM when Parcel Post will do. You've suggested people throw out $8 worth of food out every drop, then tagged on town meals to what they can save. You've suggested buying food in Port Clinton although there's no place to buy food in Port Clinton.



Personally, I am frustrated with the people who spread advice that is OLD SCHOOL. It is the number 1 reason that motivates me to speak on mail drops. I got old school advice, and it cost me tons of money.
Have an example?

Pacific Tortuga
09-04-2006, 17:16
"Not that Old School does not have reliable, tried and true virtues that are timless, but that something new and fresh might be better for you."


"The truth today is usually a lie by tomorrow" Yes, things do change that fast now and the future ....... so YOUR facts today will last for a blink of an eye too.



"I am an outdoor expert."



Regans Secretary of State General Alexander Haige said, "I am in charge" when Regan got shot ,
.... just didn't make it so TOO.

I do hope you know what your talking about because it seems your painting a big 'bulls eye' on your integrity in October.

The Old Fhart
09-04-2006, 18:19
Twofitty post #67 -“I have never ever said that I was an AT Expert.”
Twofitty post #120-“I am an outdoor expert. I have the experience and resume to prove it. I have been there when people have been killed, drown, been hurt or injured, I have thru-hiked the AT (as measly of an accomplishment as you guys want to make it) and several other shorter trails in the mid-atlantic states and I have logged 5000 miles including my AT hike. My expert opinion is what it is on certain subjects.”
What you come across as is a pompous a$$.

Unless the A.T. is indoors, the previous 2 statements by you show how unreliable your “information” is and how your opinions change to match the situation. The fact that you would preach that maps are useless and that thru-hikers shouldn't carry them is enough to make any reasonable person conclude that you not only know nothing, but those 5000 miles you brag about have taught you nothing as well.

When you say: “I have been there when people have been killed, drown, been hurt or injured,….” My question is; was it because they were following your faulty advice?:D

Oh, if you want to brag about your resume, I think my being an instructor in mountain safety for 25+ years tops your working indoors as an outfitter. At least 3 of the people posting in this thread have more trail miles and experience than you and their conclusions are the opposite of your on some very important points. Could it be that because they aren't trying to advertise their business on WhiteBlaze like you are? :-?

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 20:13
What you come across as is a pompous a$$.

Unless the A.T. is indoors, the previous 2 statements by you show how unreliable your “information” is and how your opinions change to match the situation. The fact that you would preach that maps are useless and that thru-hikers shouldn't carry them is enough to make any reasonable person conclude that you not only know nothing, but those 5000 miles you brag about have taught you nothing as well.


Working indoors as an outfitter, is probably 15% of my experience.

Why is it, that no matter what you do in life, that when some one younger comes along that the older crowd always balks?? If you baby boomers and others that are close in age are so damn knowledgeable about everything why is our country in the situation it is in right now?? Where have you all been for the past 40 years while the world has been falling apart?




When you say: “I have been there when people have been killed, drown, been hurt or injured,….” My question is; was it because they were following your faulty advice?:D

To be there in the first place you had to have much more experience. Sure Old Fart, I'll agree with you that anyone Mountaineering in the white mountains during 3 cold seasons of the year should have maps with them. However to blaze through the whites in a matter of 3-9 days on an AT thru-hike or section hike on the AT, the super highway of trials that crosses the whites, there is no need to have a map. Just sit tight and sooner or later some one will be along to help you like a ridge runner or another hiker if you are that injured or that ill-equipped mentally to figure out what to do. Go down to the visitors center at the notch and look and see how many AT thru-hikers or sections hikers have been killed in the whites. If I recall, there has not been a single person just strolling through the whites during peak hiking season on the AT that is listed on that list of deaths at the visitors center. I never said that maps should not be used for other hiking or other mountaineering or what ever. I just said that they were not needed for an AT Hike.

Just FYI, I have never killed anyone. The companies that I have worked for in the white water business, guided outfitting business, and other places, have never killed anyone either. That is why I work for them. As a matter of fact several of the places where I have worked actually take credit for saving many lives in different situations where others were at fault, or where the victim was at fault. However while out recreational boating on several sections of the Yough River, the Gauly River, and the New River, and while hiking, I have been at the location when the things were either going down or had just gone down, both deaths and injury and medical illness. If you need a map to save your own life you should have never been there to begin with. You never run down some white water river, even with a map, without scouting it first, or following along with some one who knows what is up. Scouting it first is kinda like the AT. Hundreds and Thousands of people have scouted it first for you. They have painted the way the entire distance for you, and because of that you do not need a map.






Oh, if you want to brag about your resume, I think my being an instructor in mountain safety for 25+ years tops your working indoors as an outfitter. At least 3 of the people posting in this thread have more trail miles and experience than you and their conclusions are the opposite of your on some very important points. Could it be that because they aren't trying to advertise their business on WhiteBlaze like you are? :-?

Warren Doyle has more trail miles than all of us and there are plenty of people out there that think that he is full of BS. Dan Bruce is another example. 5000 miles or 50,000 miles makes no difference. Both are substantial enough if the package that the rest of the person has in the right one. I would not want a Dr who went through med school in the 1970's to re-construct me knee. I'd rather have an expert on ACL who finished residency six years ago who knows nothing about joint replacement but everything about the different kinds of equipment that is in use today to help me figure out what to do about my joints. Same thing applys here.

As for advertising, I would not recommend that any new people who come to this website pay to use it till they decide if they are going to get benifit from being here. I participate in other discussion here other than advertising my business. So how would you suggest then that this site collects the money that it needs to exist? Maby you should foot the bill? These days the person who foots the bill has the influence in the agenda. It is the American Way right?

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 20:31
I've kept current for the last 10 years. My gear has changed as has my strategy.

Excellent!! other than the map thing that we disagree on, your doing a good job to spread the word around then??


I'll match what you sell anyday.
Matching anything that I sell is not necessary. Nothing was for sale in this thread. You are who you are and you do what you do so from a matching stand point, each customer in my businesses have there own experiences, there is no need for matching between the 2 of us on customer experience or customer service. We both do what works for us.




So far, you've suggested mail drops are a waste, yet you're doing a seminar on the very same subject. Summing up the way that I did it a few years ago, you betcha it was a total waste of my time. I am trying to present a technique to others so that they can make a better set of choices
You've suggested maps are a waste, when they've been known to save lives. Maps do not save lives. People save lives with or without maps, and i am not going to budge on this subject.
You've suggested bend the rules and use PM boxes when they shouldn't be. People should not smoke dope on the trail either and they do every single day of the year. I am not against it either. It is not for me, but I am not against it.
You've suggested people spend $1.49 for a box at Walmart when they can get them forr free from any grocery store. I did not suggest that people spend $1.49 for a box from Wal-Mart, I know that people do... I did it!!
You've suggested spending money for PM when Parcel Post will do. Neglegable difference in cost, trackability is free if you print the postage lable online, forwarding is free, it gets there faster, still hunting for othe reason to use Parcel Post
You've suggested people throw out $8 worth of food out every drop, then tagged on town meals to what they can save. Possibly my typed explanation is not very clear... I did not suggest that people throw out $8 worth of food, I know people throw it out. I have seen it every single day I have been near the trail when hikers opened mail drops. I excluded town meals and town expenses like lodging and other things from my quote
You've suggested buying food in Port Clinton although there's no place to buy food in Port Clinton. Just a few miles east of the trail at the Port Clinton trail crossing is a huge shopping complext with plenty of places to purchase food.


Are you actually reading the posts are are you just thowing out usless points of information now to troll also?? I have no issues with my ability to offer a comment on your statements, but your statements above were just not correct again. Look I apologize if my written explanation of my 3 box example was poor. It was typed here in that format in a hurry off my notes and my other references for my seminar. It is kinda difficult to explain something here on a screen that is much easier explained in a hands on situation in person.

Twofiddy
09-04-2006, 20:41
"Not that Old School does not have reliable, tried and true virtues that are timless, but that something new and fresh might be better for you."


"The truth today is usually a lie by tomorrow" Yes, things do change that fast now and the future ....... so YOUR facts today will last for a blink of an eye too.

100% true statement. I figure that I probably can only give this seminar possibly 1 or 2 more years, then it is going to be time to pass the torch to some one else, or go through the entire thru-hike/long distance hike experience again to make sure that I am still up to date on the info. I will be fully willing to admit when the information that I am able to provide is outdated. So far the only major change from 1 year ago is the postage price hike.




"I am an outdoor expert."



Regans Secretary of State General Alexander Haige said, "I am in charge" when Regan got shot ,
.... just didn't make it so TOO.

I do hope you know what your talking about because it seems your painting a big 'bulls eye' on your integrity in October.

Maby that is a good thing. I had a person last year at Hanover that was not happy that I would not talk about PCT re-supply, or that I made the statement that "I think that large food supply mail drops are not necessary" and that if you have no issues with money and preferences like fav shampoo and conditioner or razor brand or womens health products or vitamins or what ever that "you dont need to do any mail drops at all". Again these were ways to look at going through the process of planning for the trip. I am not an expert at PCT re-supply, or PCT outfitting, or PCT logistics at all. I have never set foot on the PCT. 1 thing that I am not is a pretender.

I know that the content of what I will present, with or without my personal opinions included, will be of significant use to those who want to take notes, listen, and leave with more information then when they arrived.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-04-2006, 20:55
I am not trolling here, but you feel as that you are an expert, as you said.

Do you feel that 5k-6k miles make you that expert?

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of ... need to convert Km to miles ...
600km/mon * 48mon = 28800 km * .67mile/km = 19296 miles.
This does not include time hiking in my personal life. These miles were accrued over five years in the woods, jungles, swamps, and mountains of S. America. I excluded a year for time not in the field.

And I dont consider myself an expert on anything relating to hiking except first aid and orienteering. I am constantly learning, from my own experience and vicariously through the folks here.

So, I'm just curious in all sincerity why you think your listed experience makes you an expert.

Tabasco
09-04-2006, 20:57
Twofiddy:

2003 was a memorable uear on Trailjournals.com. Tucson, one of my favorite journals to date, Goldberry, Flatlander, and others ring to mind. As does yours, but for a completely different reason. You had then, and apprently still do, a terrible attitude. Your journal entries were whine fests of why the world was out to get you, how if it was up to you Virgina Power would be a world dominating force, if only they saw your superior intellect.

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=23554

I sincerely read your journals and hoped that somehow the trail may change you and strip away the sense of entitlement you seem to have. Then came that fateful day in Stratton, ME.

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=45644

It's sad to see that 3 years later, you are still that petulant little kid. I sincerely hope that one day you will grow up. You are the type of hiker that gives the rest of us a bad name.

The Old Fhart
09-04-2006, 21:27
Twofitty-“If you baby boomers and others that are close in age are so damn knowledgeable about everything why is our country in the situation it is in right now?? Where have you all been for the past 40 years while the world has been falling apart?”
I could ask you the same thing, Bunky, except the condition of the world has absolutely nothing to do with your irresponsible suggestion that people not carry maps and go into the woods without other necessary gear. I can show you countless books, some written by people younger and less addled than you appear, that all say take a map and compass and know how to use them. If you can show me one book on the outdoors that recommends not taking maps or compass, it will probably have your name on it and be written in crayon.:D


Twofitty-"I'll agree with you that anyone Mountaineering in the white mountains during 3 cold seasons of the year should have maps with them. However to blaze through the whites in a matter of 3-9 days on an AT thru-hike or section hike on the AT, the super highway of trials that crosses the whites, there is no need to have a map. Just sit tight and sooner or later some one will be along to help you like a ridge runner or another hiker if you are that injured or that ill-equipped mentally to figure out what to do. Go down to the visitors center at the notch and look and see how many AT thru-hikers or sections hikers have been killed in the whites."

Your illogic is laughable! You’re saying the mountains are dangerous for 3 seasons and safe for one-get real! I wouldn’t expect someone with your rudimentary knowledge to understand that most of the accidents and S&R happen in the summer. This is partly because the summer draws more people who don’t carry map and compass. Once while on a day hike I met a thru-hiker without maps hiking down the Lonesome Lake trail, hopelessly lost, and this is rather common in the Whites where the local trail names come first on signs.

For your information, it can, and has snowed every month of the year in the Whites and the summit of Washington is in the clouds about 300 days/year with visibility down to a few feet and you can't even see between cairns. Also if there is a problem at night you need to know escape routes and a map is essential in all these situations. Also a few years ago when I hiked the JMT in July/August there there was 10 feet of snow at 10K feet and I had to use map and compass because there is no way to see the trail under all that snow.

Oh, seeing you have the information wrong once again, the list of deaths at the AMC Pinkham Notch visitor center is just the people who died on Mount Washington and the WMNF is more than one mountain. Yes there have been thru-hiker deaths in the Whites including one recently on the summit of Lafayette. But most accidents don't involve death, just S&R, so why don't you consider all accidents worthy of mention?


Twofitty-"5000 miles or 50,000 miles makes no difference. Both are substantial enough if the package that the rest of the person has in the right one."
Well you were the one that kept harping on you 5000 miles, no one else cared until you brought it up! As to the rest of the “package,” all you have been able to say is that you’re right because you’re the expert and can offer no proof to back up any of your inflated claims. Try sticking to facts, snake oil doesn’t sell here, although you feel you are entitled to do that. I'd strongly suggest that you attend some of the seminars at the Gathering to try to learn some of the basics of safe hiking.

Heater
09-04-2006, 21:32
I am not going to ridicule anything that Jack has to say as I respect most of what he has to say and he knows that. However, his hiking style, his gear selection, his supplies in his pack :banana :banana are very different from the A typical hiker. If most people hiked with the exact setup and followed Jacks exact method of hiking they would not make it very far. Jack has been doing this so long that he has developed a style that coudl only be the result of years of living on the trail.


As for some one not making a special trip for a special presentation... Lets just cancle the gathering all together then. Lets not try to get people to come to the event. Lets all get our webcams hooked up and all the cyber hikers can contra-dance in there own living room on webcam. You should not come to the Gathering just for my presentation, you should come for every thing, because it is worth every second of your time and ever cent of gasoline that spend to get there.

:sun

Easy to say when you live so close.

I'd love to but cannot get the time off. It would be two full days of driving each way.

Of course I could take the 99 dollar flight to from jet blue if they still offered it. Wanna pick me up at the airport?

:sun

fiddlehead
09-04-2006, 21:34
I guess anybody can give a seminar. It's just too bad that some newbie will go to this guys and learn all his bad habits.

Maildrops are not about just saving money. Money is not the most important thing in life once you start hiking. Many other things take preference over it. (Like food, the right shoes, sleeping bag, etc)
I agree maildrops are not necessary for some towns. But they are very handy if you use them in the right place. especially if you use batteries (and prefer rechargables over discarding of harmful used up ones), Digital cameras (chargers and flash cards), town clothes, heavier sleeping bag for the smokies/whites/maine, prebought shoes, maps, and many others that are listed in different threads here.
Also, there is so much to be learned about many things in life from the AT experience. This includes mail drops. Not only the PCT and CDT, CO trail and LT will you find mail drops to be necessary for certain towns, when we hiked the Pyrenees in '99, we used mail drops for different gear, maps, clothes, food etc. The locals were amazed that we did this and were impressed by our ways. I chalk that knowledge up to something i learned as a beginner on the AT. There's lots to be learned out there. Why suppress the knowldege?
I just hope that the folks going to the gathering will have a choice and can go to a seminar telling them how to do maildrops and what to put in them at the same time as the one that this Twofiddy guy is giving. cause it already sounds like his will be biased. Keeping an open mind is another of the big lessons i learned about life on the AT. It's too bad he didn't learn any of that.

ps. that's a tough hitch past from Port Clinton to get to the far side of the next town. (Hamburg) Not only is there no place to pull over, it's a dangerous hi-way, and folks rarely stop there. If you are doing maildrops, Port Clinton would be on the most important list along with Glencliff, NH. & perhaps Fontana, Andover ME

Jack Tarlin
09-04-2006, 21:48
Regarding O.F.'s comment about trail mileage, I'd tend to agree with him.

A big pile of accumulated mileage doesn't necessarily mean that much, if people don't continue to learn along the way.

I can think of folks with a lot less actual mileage than me who are MUCH more knowledgable about such things as wildlife, wildflowers and trees, reading the sky, predicting the weather, starting campfires, you name it.

I recently figured out that I've got something like 3,500 A.T. miles just in the town of Hanover. Now 3,500 trail miles might seem like a lot to someone who doesn't hike, but fact is, most of those miles were spent walking to work, going to the Library, or coming home from a saloon. Just because I covered a piece of the A.T. practically every day I lived in Hanover, which is something like nine years now, doesn't necessarily mean I gained wisdom and knowledge on each and every one of them.

What you learn as you accumulate your miles is more important than how many you accumulate.

stumpknocker
09-04-2006, 21:55
Twofiddy. After reading this entire thread, here's my advice. You ought to quit while you're behind. ;)

Here, here.....I second that advice. :)

The Old Fhart
09-04-2006, 21:58
(emphasis mine)

Twofitty-“My mail drop technique that I have developed and used on several long distance sections now works great, it cost 90% less than the common knowledge technique that is used by most, and it is just as much fun to plan for as the regular jumbo box type.”

Twofitty(08-03-03) “I made a few phone calls in the PO lobby after I picked up three of my five boxes. I was a little upset that my knee brace parts are not here because they shipped them on Thursday. I questioned the lady about why the mail was not sorted and I questioned her about the post office hours and she was not happy about that. She then started off on this tangent about the post master who was on his death bed etc.
Now I can have sympathy for a few seconds but after that business as usual still must go on. My life is not on hold because some one who I have never met is ill. People die every day in America. ..............Some other lady in the back of the office called the sheriff. When the sheriff arrived she was hearing out both side of the story and the she ordered me not to go back into the post office. That order was without reason so I sat on the curb outside pouting while she sat in her cruiser."First off, you wouldn't have had the problems in 2003 if you'd used your "mail drop technique that [you] developed and used on several long distance sections":D

Second, you should take some anger management classes after you learn how to interact with people. I doubt that any of this would help because your disease seems to be terminal!:p I think that your journal entry actually belongs in the "how to poison the well" thread. I will say this for you, Twofitty, if nothing else, we can always use you as a example of what not to do!

Blissful
09-04-2006, 22:44
However to blaze through the whites in a matter of 3-9 days on an AT thru-hike or section hike on the AT, the super highway of trials that crosses the whites, there is no need to have a map. Just sit tight and sooner or later some one will be along to help you like a ridge runner or another hiker if you are that injured or that ill-equipped mentally to figure out what to do.

As far as waiting in the Whites for someone to come along with a map (I didn't see but four people), I'm glad we didn't stand there in the cold pouring rain and wait while my son slowly became increasingly hypothermic (which he was, with mental confusion). That we had a map and could bail out off the AT when the t-storm blew up and we knew which direction to go. It can get confusing up there above the treeline with the rock cairns and which trail is which and with rain coming down so hard you can't see. That is being self sufficient and well equipped.

If someone wants to talk about mail drops and what not to bring fine. I don't see that as a problem. But PLEASE, don't tell new people in a talk, seminar, book, forum, e-mail post, whatever, not to take maps. And I don't have a thousand miles under my belt, but mine comes from the experience of being there, even if it was a six mile hike above the treeline.

BTW - I think the death of the crocodile guy from Australia can say a lot. No matter how experienced you think you are with danger or how many miles are under your belt, it doesn't take but one incident to change the stakes...and take a life. Gets you to eat humble pie pretty darn quick.

Jack Tarlin
09-04-2006, 22:50
Great post.

I must have told people about the importance of maps 10 times here, but you just said it better than I did.

Note: This is just another example of the simple fact that the accumulation of mileage does not necessarily translate into a similar pile of common sense.

Sly
09-04-2006, 23:33
Just posing an honest question or 2 or 3 in the same form back at you SLY.

Why would I?? or Should I?? stand in front of people en regergitate what I feel is a default method to send your self mail drops??
From what I've been reading you probably shouldn't.



How effective is it to stand in front of people and show them what I feel is the wrong way that they can get from just about any place vs just showing them my "opinion" more efficient techniques that I have worked on to help save people money, vs showing them both.
Well, if your live demo is anything like your written one, not very effective or efficient.




Sly, I am asking the questions of you, but then again when I think about it I am not sure why I am asking you as I am assuming that you are in the part of the crowd here that thinks that they know exactly how to re-supply or to pack mail drops.
I don't think I know, I know I know. As you said in the beginning for the most part mail drops are a waste of money and unless you vary the food you may just tired of eating it. I don't have that problem and seldom, if ever, throw food away. Of course, there are towns where you'll need to mail your resupply or hitch to another town. If you resupply as you go and send food up the trail via Parcel Post you will save money over PM. Isn't that the main point of your seminar? Free DC with PM is basically useless, either the package is there or it isn't. Free foward with PM (not really free since you pay extra) is next to useless. I can't imagine sending food to Port Clinton only to foward it once more. Also, as I've mentioned, if you're there to receive the package, the PO does not have to foward it for free. It's also in the regulations, look it up. Make sure to tell your attendees not to sit on the sidewalk and pout if they don't get their way. Explain it's best to keep good relations with the PO workers and police, if not for you but the hikers that will follow.

There are a couple other questions I have about your examples, such as what could you possibly put in a two lb package for $5 that you couldn't buy when you hitch to Hamburg?

Why would box1 with $30 of food, bought ahead of time presumably at a savings, be $18 short of food (forget throwing away $8 of food) for a total $48 and box3 with $5 worth of food, only be $25 short for a total of $30 for an $18 difference?

Smile
09-05-2006, 07:27
SLY: So far, you've suggested mail drops are a waste, yet you're doing a seminar on the very same subject. You've suggested maps are a waste, when they've been known to save lives. You've suggested bend the rules and use PM boxes when they shouldn't be. You've suggested people spend $1.49 for a box at Walmart when they can get them forr free from any grocery store. You've suggested spending money for PM when Parcel Post will do. You've suggested people throw out $8 worth of food out every drop, then tagged on town meals to what they can save. You've suggested buying food in Port Clinton although there's no place to buy food in Port Clinton.


Sly, all great points, glad you put them into one place in your post.

Mail drops are awesome. It was the main reason I was able to hike the lightest I ever have this year, and it made every postal stop like Christmas!

A seminar is just information anyway, use what you want - skip what you don't. :)
That's what's nice about hiking out there, other than the LNT ethics that all hikers should take seriously, there are no rules about how you hike your hike.

Smile
09-05-2006, 07:27
somehow the above posted twice, deleted for sake of space :)

Footslogger
09-05-2006, 09:01
I made good use of maildrops (3) and a managed a bounce box from Springer to Katahdin in 2003. I carried maps (most of the time). If I was starting another thru-hike in 2007 I would use the same approach.

That said ...I wouldn't suggest that anyone try and duplicate my experience (or anyone else's for that matter) and that's what this thread seems to be about.

No one owns the market on ideas when it comes to distance hiking, no matter how many miles they have hiked or how well they can argue their position.

Take in all the information you can and approach your hike with the idea of enjoying yourself and being reasonably safe.

'Slogger

Twofiddy
09-07-2006, 17:39
From what I've been reading you probably shouldn't.



Well, if your live demo is anything like your written one, not very effective or efficient.




I don't think I know, I know I know. As you said in the beginning for the most part mail drops are a waste of money and unless you vary the food you may just tired of eating it. I don't have that problem and seldom, if ever, throw food away. Of course, there are towns where you'll need to mail your resupply or hitch to another town. If you resupply as you go and send food up the trail via Parcel Post you will save money over PM. Isn't that the main point of your seminar? Free DC with PM is basically useless, either the package is there or it isn't. Free foward with PM (not really free since you pay extra) is next to useless. I can't imagine sending food to Port Clinton only to foward it once more. Also, as I've mentioned, if you're there to receive the package, the PO does not have to foward it for free. It's also in the regulations, look it up. Make sure to tell your attendees not to sit on the sidewalk and pout if they don't get their way. Explain it's best to keep good relations with the PO workers and police, if not for you but the hikers that will follow.

There are a couple other questions I have about your examples, such as what could you possibly put in a two lb package for $5 that you couldn't buy when you hitch to Hamburg?


It is not the idea that you cant buy something in Hamburg or Port Clinton. It is the idea that if you send your self the right stuff that you will be able to save alot of $$ that could be used for other things to make your trip more enjoyable, or for some even possibly.


Why would box1 with $30 of food, bought ahead of time presumably at a savings, be $18 short of food (forget throwing away $8 of food) for a total $48 and box3 with $5 worth of food, only be $25 short for a total of $30 for an $18 difference?

The rest of the re-supply technique that I feel is more accurate based on todays economics and todays services avaliable along the trail will take care of your presumed cost differences. Obviously because every single person will pack, spend, eat, and hike differently, the savings are only estimated based on the technique, and backed up by what I know that I actually did based on what others told me to do. When you left Port Clinton to head to Palmerton did you leave with $30 worth of food in your

Twofiddy
09-07-2006, 17:52
I made good use of maildrops (3) and a managed a bounce box from Springer to Katahdin in 2003. I carried maps (most of the time). If I was starting another thru-hike in 2007 I would use the same approach.

That said ...I wouldn't suggest that anyone try and duplicate my experience (or anyone else's for that matter) and that's what this thread seems to be about.

No one owns the market on ideas when it comes to distance hiking, no matter how many miles they have hiked or how well they can argue their position.

Take in all the information you can and approach your hike with the idea of enjoying yourself and being reasonably safe.

'Slogger

So in other words what you are saying is that none of us are "ABSOLOUTLY RIGHT" None, would include the people who insist on carrying maps, and my self who think that I have a good method to re-supply figured out that is different that the one that I think is a result of what I think is a pretty normal approach to figuring out how go about mail drops etc. Which brings us to the whole point that we have events like the Gathering to begin with.

This is my last post for this thread...

I'm not going to let anything that any of you think about me stop my desire to share what I feel some one else could learn from. As for my journal, and my attitude, we all have one, some different than others. What I chose to write about and publish, my business. You can judge me all that you want based on that, I still know what I am good at and how I have helped people. Last person who's life I saved because of my experiences, had no problems with the fact that I protested in front of the Stratton ME post office. Just last night I walked out of a resturant that was providing crappy service when they brought out my food, I did not eat it, and I did not pay. I did the same thing at that dive bar in Stratton because no one waited on me for over 20 min after pouring me a luke warm american draft beer. If I dont like something, I dont just grin and bear it like the general public.

PS... will teach beginners tarp tent clinic as well. How to tie Taught Line Hitch, various configurations on how to set up a tarp for different kinds of weather, and how to find a solution for bugs that works well with a tarp. Very basic hands on clinic for those who may have little or no experience with tarps. We will spend time outside, rain or shine, playing with my collection of tarps, cord, and hiking sticks.

ed bell
09-07-2006, 18:44
None, would include the people who insist on carrying maps, and my self who think that I have a good method to re-supply figured out that is different that the one that I think is a result of what I think is a pretty normal approach to figuring out how go about mail drops etc. Whew, it took some effort to read that sentence.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-07-2006, 18:52
Whew, it took some effort to read that sentence.
I was wondering if anyone else had to reread that, LOL.:D He never did answer my question.

Jack Tarlin
09-07-2006, 18:56
As I stated earlier, there will be all sorts of presentations, lectures, and discussion groups for prospective thru-hikers at this year's ALDHA Gathering.

Different folks---especially different former thru-hikers---have differing ideas on what constitutes good or sound advice for newcomers. For those of you planning to attend who are prospective thru-hikers, I urge you to attend as many of these presentations as possible, knowing full well that you may hear conflicting advice or suggestions.

In short, there's no one right or wrong way to prepare for a thru-hike or to hike one. There's no "one way" or "right way" to either plan or hike. Anyone who tells you otherwise, either on a website, in a lecture, at a paid workshop/seminar, or anywhere else, is blowing smoke out of an enlarged head.

For the new folks: Get all the advice you can; go to different sources; expect to hear conflicting things; keep an open mind; If anyone tells you their word is "gospel", well, my advice to you is trust everyone, but cut the cards, and if they share this wisdom with you in your home, count the spoons after they leave.

ed bell
09-07-2006, 19:00
If anyone tells you their word is "gospel", well, my advice to you is trust everyone, but cut the cards, and if they share this wisdom with you in your home, count the spoons after they leave.Nice piece of advice, Jack.:sun

HapKiDo
09-07-2006, 22:49
After all of your particular MUST HAVE's I throw in the towell. You need a bounce box... print out this post and stick it in there too so that you dont forget that I said that... In the mean time, those who are fresh to trying this hike who want some sound advice on not being so set in certain ways that it is going to cost you a ton of cash, days off in towns waiting for Tuesday when the PO opens up again from the holiday weekend, and paying postage to mail the same stuff over and over and over again... keep reading this post.

I've talked to both 'bounce box users' and 'bounce box non-users' and I think this is a 'hyoh' situation. After talking to a number of people, I don't think I'll use one. My gear isn't all that heavy that I need to bounce anything around. And I can always change my mind once I'm on the trail.

There are places to purchase groceries except at Fontana Dam and I think Jack lists a place or two up North where a maildrop would be beneficial. And hopefully those will coincide with my monthly prescription maildrops.

GOT to have MAPS in order to know the elevation gains and losses so that you can plan your day of hiking. Going without maps might be okay on a second Thru Hike of the same trail, but not on an initial Thru Hike.

BEST way to hike is "hyoh" don't ya think?
HapKiDo:D
Danger! Danger! Danger!
The death of Steve Irwin (The Croc Hunter) confirms my early retirement plans. You just never know when your time is up.
Do not say: "When I am free I will pursue wisdom." Perhaps you will never be free. The Talmud