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Shutterbug
09-01-2006, 22:38
What is the correct definition of a "stealth camp?"

My own understanding of a stealth camp is "an illegal camp that is out of sight of the trail."

In reading several Trail Journals, I have seen people use the term to define any camp that isn't shown on the official trail maps, even if it is a well used camp beside the trial with tent pads and a fire ring. What are the requirements for a camp to be a "stealth camp?"

Sly
09-01-2006, 22:47
I've always thought it was a non-established site somewhat off the trail. Not necessarily an illegal site. I think it comes from Ray Jardines PCT Thru-Hikers Handbook with an emphasis on getting away from the bear problem in the Sierras, but also used for a more enjoyable experience.

ed bell
09-01-2006, 22:47
I was recently in a discussion about this. I used to think "stealth camp" meant under the radar, illegal sites. Some on this board have said that it refers to good campsites that are not on the map. I am inclined to think that there is a double meaning. I do know that stealth is ALWAYS as close to LNT as a camper can get.:cool:

Pacific Tortuga
09-01-2006, 22:48
[quote=Shutterbug]What is the correct definition of a "stealth camp?"

My own understanding of a stealth camp is "an illegal camp that is out of sight of the trail."

In reading several Trail Journals, I have seen people use the term to define any camp that isn't shown on the official trail maps, even if it is a well used camp beside the trial with tent pads and a fire ring. What are the requirements for a camp to be a "stealth camp?"[/quot


AKA : Gorilla camping or not being seen 'stealth' sometimes refering to illegal camping : staying away from over use areas and no impact also see Ray Jardine PCT camping "NO Impact/Not Seen" or all of the above.

Sly
09-01-2006, 22:52
I do know that stealth is ALWAYS as close to LNT as a camper can get.:cool:

Well it is except for the fact LNT guidelines suggest using already impacted sites.

Sly
09-01-2006, 22:54
Never heard of gorilla camping. I wonder how that came about?

map man
09-01-2006, 22:56
I've noticed the same thing when I read trailjournals, Shutterbug. I've always thought of "stealth" camping as camping away from designated spots where it is supposed to be prohibited by regulations, like in the White Mountains, Smoky Mountain National Park, and some private property on the trail.

According to the ATC it's supposed to be ok to camp away from shelters and designated spots on most of the AT so long as you stay far enough from the trail and water sources and follow LNT practices. But a lot of hikers seem to like to call this approved form of camping "stealth" camping. Maybe it helps people think of themselves as "living on the edge" or not letting "the man" tell them what to do:D .

But I don't know the answer to your question. I don't know what the generally accepted definition of the "stealth" concept is in the AT hiking community.

Sly
09-01-2006, 22:57
From RJ's Beyond Backpacking...

Stealth camping. If you can manage to camp away from the water sources, and from the established campsites, then the many wonderful advantages of stealth camping will be yours. Stealth camping is a cleaner, warmer and quieter way to camp, and it offers a much better connection with nature. In all likelihood no one has camped at your impromptu stealth-site before, and the ground will be pristine. Its thick, natural cushioning of the forest materials will still be in place, making for comfortable bedding without the use of a heavy inflatable mattress. There will be no desiccated stock manure to rise as dust and infiltrate your lungs, nor any scatter of unsightly litter and stench of human waste. The stealth-site will not be trampled and dished; any rainwater will soak into the ground or run off it, rather than collect and flood your shelter. Bears scrounging for human food will be busy at the water-side campsites, and will almost invariably ignore the far-removed and unproductive woods. Far from the water sources you will encounter fewer flying insects, particularly upon the more breezy slopes and ridges. Above the katabatic zones the night air will be markedly warmer. And you can rest assured that your chances of being bothered by other people will be slim.

Jack Tarlin
09-01-2006, 22:58
Map Man is correct. "Stealth" sites are always off the radar, and are not "official", but they are not necessarily illegal. They can indeed involve sites where one is technically not supposed to overnight, but frequently, a "stealth" site is merely an out-of-sight campsite unknown to most folks.

ed bell
09-01-2006, 23:04
Well it is except for the fact LNT guidelines suggest using already impacted sites.That wouldn't be very stealthy now, would it? I guess I need to go back to the drawing board with my 2 cents.:)

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-01-2006, 23:06
To me it means camping far enough off the trail not to be seen; not at an established campsite; without a fire or significantly altering the foliage, duff, etc found at the site and returning the site to the original condition before leaving. Ray Jardine suggested stealth sites be found away from water sources to avoid bug and bear problems.<o></o>

Sly
09-01-2006, 23:09
Well, for the most part it looks like we all agree. A Whiteblaze 1st! Sgt Rock/Dixiehiker/ATTRoll close this thread!!!!!

ed bell
09-01-2006, 23:09
......, but frequently, a "stealth" site is merely an out-of-sight campsite unknown to most folks.Kinda like my highest legal campsite East of South Dakota.:cool:

Sly
09-01-2006, 23:15
That wouldn't be very stealthy now, would it? I guess I need to go back to the drawing board with my 2 cents.:)

Not to worry, I think LNT came up with the impacted site guideline so NOLS could bring in 100's of hikers into wilderness areas. Y

fiddlehead
09-01-2006, 23:33
To me it means HIDDEN. legal or not.
so yeah, Sly, i think we are in agreement.
This is one reason why i don't like bright yellow, orange, or flourescent green tent colors. I prefer my grey sil-shelter.
It cost me money to learn that, back in '77 when it was against the rules to stay at the shelters in the Shenendoahs, we were supposed to stealth camp and the ranger came around one night, stood on top of the fireplace and did a 360. He said: what color is your tent. i said orange, he said i can see it. you're illegal!

Gray Blazer
09-02-2006, 00:02
Never heard of gorilla camping. I wonder how that came about?

Watch the movie 'Captain Ron'. My favorite movie.:sun

SGT Rock
09-02-2006, 03:41
Actually the LNT organization does not only recommend staying at impacted campsites, they recommend it as the preferred method. Areas can become closed to camping because of impacted camp sites. A couple of spots I can think of off the top of my head on the AT were that trail intersection on the south side of Mt Rogers where that horse trail and the AT intersect, and a gap in GA, I think it was Slaughter Gap had signs up in 2001 when I hiked through there.

From the LNT site:


Choosing a Campsite in High-Use Areas: Avoid camping close to water and trails and select a site which is not visible to others. Even in popular areas the sense of solitude can be enhanced by screening campsites and choosing an out-of-the-way site. Camping away from the water's edge also allows access routes for wild life. Be sure to obey regulations related to campsite selection. Allow enough time and energy at the end of the day to select an appropriate site. Fatigue, bad weather, and late departure times are not acceptable excuses for choosing poor or fragile camp sites.

And about choosing the off trail sites:



In pristine sites it is best to spread out tents, avoid repetitive traffic routes, and move camp every night. The objective is to minimize the number of times any part of the site is trampled. In setting up camp, disperse tents and the kitchen on durable sites. Wear soft shoes around camp. Minimize activity around the kitchen and places where packs are stashed. The durable surfaces of large rock slabs make good kitchen sites. Watch where you walk to avoid crushing vegetation and take alternate paths to water. Minimize the number of trips to water by carrying water containers. Check regulations, but camping 200 feet (70 adult steps) from water is a good rule of thumb.

and when you get done:



When breaking camp, take time to naturalize the site. Covering scuffed areas with native materials (such as pine needles), brushing out footprints, and raking matted grassy areas with a stick will help the site recover and make it less obvious as a campsite. This extra effort will help hide any indication where you camped and make it less likely that other back try travelers will camp in the same spot. The less often a pristine campsite is used the better chance it has of remaining pristine. Camping in Arid Lands The most appropriate campsites in arid lands are on durable surfaces, such as rock and gravel, or on sites that have been so highly impacted further use will cause no additional disturbance. Previously impacted sites are obvious because they have already lost their vegetation cover or the rocky soils have been visibly disturbed. If choosing this type of site, make sure your spot is large enough to accommodate your entire group.

A pristine campsite, with no evidence of previous use, is appropriate in arid lands provided it is on a non-vegetated, highly resistant surface. Expanses of rock, gravel or sand are all ex lent choices. It should never be necessary to camp on cryptobiotic soil, islands of vegetation, or within the precious green ribbons of desert creeks or streams. Beware when camping on sandy river bottoms and areas susceptible to flash floods.

Cooking areas, tents and backpacks should be located on rock, sand, or gravel. Conscious y choose durable routes of travel between parts of your camp so that connecting trails do not develop. Vary your routes since the objective is to minimize the amount of trampling and compaction on any specific part of the campsite. Limit your stay to no more than two nights.

Never scrape away or clean sites of organic litter like leaves, and always minimize the removal of rocks and gravel. The organic litter will help to cushion trampling forces, limit the compactability of soils, release plant nutrients, and reduce the erosive forces of rainfall. Disturbing the lichen-coated and varnished rocks known as desert pavement can leave a visible impact for hundreds of years. Once overturned, these rocks are difficult to replace and the lichens and varnish will not grow back within our lifetime.

And that last part sort of explains that durable surface can include staying on the duft - just don't clear it out. Leave the duft to absorb impact of walking around.

Stealth sites can be within the LNT ethic. You just gotta know how.

www.LNT.org

Just Jeff
09-02-2006, 05:03
I disagree. Not really, but it scares me when everyone here agrees so I had to.

I like Jack's definition - hidden and off the trail, and therefore stealthy, but not necessarily illegal. Those are my favorite sites.

Lone Wolf
09-02-2006, 05:48
To me it means illegal like when I camp within view of the lodge at Pinkham Notch or when I sleep under Lonesome Lake Hut, etc.

neo
09-02-2006, 06:23
i have stealth camped both legal and illegal,i leave no trace either way
:cool: neo


:D out of site out of mind:cool: neo

Tin Man
09-02-2006, 10:39
We stealthed for the first time near the infamous Governor Clemente shelter last Fall. After setting up camp, we checked the shelter and no one was there, so we felt a little silly and built a fire in the ring to go with our Scotch. (That's what I hate about stealth camping - no fires!) Well, about 1:00 am several AV's came through and then we heard random gunfire for the next hour or so. Glad to have our stealth camp that night!

sliderule
09-02-2006, 13:00
Never heard of gorilla camping. I wonder how that came about?

Gorilla camping is a more primitive version of hammock hanging. You just climb a tree and sleep on a sturdy branch.

SGT Rock
09-02-2006, 14:28
Is that Gorilla or Guerrilla?

Topcat
09-02-2006, 18:27
When we teach LNT to kids, we talk about using established sites when possible and if not, always remember to fluff your duff....lol

Trillium
09-02-2006, 19:56
When we teach LNT to kids, we talk about using established sites when possible and if not, always remember to fluff your duff....lolnewbie here; so please be gentle in answering, but what is duff?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-02-2006, 20:12
"Duff' is the natural covering of the forest floor - leaves, small sticks, pine needles and such.

Tin Man
09-02-2006, 22:09
Watch for scat in the duff or your first fluf may turn out to be enuf. :rolleyes:

Topcat
09-03-2006, 10:12
Watch for scat in the duff or your first fluf may turn out to be enuf. :rolleyes:

so true...and it is tuff when the scat gets on your stuff

bogey
09-03-2006, 11:25
Is that Gorilla or Guerrilla?

you saved me from having to look up the correct spelling of the correct woid.!

Tipi Walter
09-03-2006, 12:08
To my mind, camping off the trail and out of sight is still just camping with some bushwacking thrown in. Many areas have no trails and yet traveling thru them and camping along the way could not be considered stealth camping. There are many areas along significant trails such as the Mountains to Sea Trail and in various state parks where camping is not allowed and to do so results in stealth camping. It's strange to read the MST guidebook where it talks about camping options and it says to find the nearest motel on the closest interstate and yet just a hundred feet off the trail there is a level, hidden place to camp.

An important corollary to stealth camping is car useage. It is much easier to stealth camp without leaving or thinking about a car sitting somewhere nearby. A good example of stealth camping is finding a place to camp on a long hitchhiking trip. When night falls and there's no rides the nearest treeline seems to always offer a place to sleep.

saimyoji
09-03-2006, 12:08
newbie here; so please be gentle in answering, but what is duff?

BEER!! :D Don't you watch the simpsons?

Duffman says: newbie, welcome to WB. Drink more beer. :banana

Patrickjd9
09-03-2006, 15:15
To me it means HIDDEN. legal or not.
It cost me money to learn that, back in '77 when it was against the rules to stay at the shelters in the Shenendoahs, we were supposed to stealth camp and the ranger came around one night, stood on top of the fireplace and did a 360. He said: what color is your tent. i said orange, he said i can see it. you're illegal!
Those orange tents were still pretty common when I started backpacking in the early 80s. They were either a version of or knockoff of the Eureka Timberline.