View Full Version : OUCH! My Therm-a-rest felt like a Therm-a-rock!
Need some expert help from everyone here on WB. I went on my first shakedown hike this weekend. Everything went great until I went to bed. I got about 4 hours total sleep due to lower back/hip pain caused by lying on the .625" thick Therm-a-rest pad I've got. I had to keep switching positions side-back-other side-back, etc.
Is this normal? Meaning, should I expect to go through an adjustment period before I can sleep on this thing? If so, how long of an adjustment period?
Or, should I invest in something else? What do you all recommend (besides hammocks)? Thanks!!
Just Jeff
09-04-2006, 17:34
Try a pillow (clothing-filled stuff sack) under your waist or between your knees. (Or a hammock!!)
Well, you could get a thicker Thermarest (which are heavy) or you could try letting some air out (or add air) so your hip barely touches the ground. That said, it still gets some getting used to.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2006, 17:35
You might want to try adding a cheapy 3/4 pad (WalMart or Target) for a while and see if your body can adapt.
You don't mention your age. I was able to sleep on CCF pads until I was about 40. Since then, I need a bit more padding. This could be because I have far more padding than I did in my younger days. YMMV
Another idea is to take a small section of Z-rest or closed cell pad and putting it under your hips. You could also use it as a sit/kneeing pad.
Sorry...I should have mentioned I'm only 33 yrs old. Also, my pad is a closed-cell pad, not the inflatable type. Would the inflatable type make that much of a difference?
Touch of Grey
09-04-2006, 17:41
Don't know if you could ever call them comfortable in the sense that they cushion you from the ground beneath you.
That having been said, they are called Therm-a-rest for a reason. Their PRIMARY reason for being is to insulate you from the round robbing you of heat. There are thicker Therm-a-rest's that might suit you better for comfort. However, there are trade-offs and only you can decide if they are worth the gains or losses. You could always just chuck the Therm-a-rest and sleep on the bare ground with a groundcloth or the floor of your tent. That's where compression of your sleeping system will fail you and then you'll be back looking at insulation techniques.
It's all about trade-offs and what you can feel comfortable with while being somewhat uncomfortable.
Well, you could get a thicker Thermarest (which are heavy) or you could try letting some air out (or add air) so your hip barely touches the ground. I had to do both, though I have arthritis in left hip. I use a 2.5 inch thick Big Agnes pad. When I lay on it, I first lay on my side and let air out until my hip touches the ground. Then I have maximum contour fitting support around my body. If I wake up in the middle of a cold night, I let more air out as the pad will have gotten firmer as my body heated the captured air a little.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2006, 17:54
I have the same pad as Frosty due to ortho injuries. I'm more comfy with the pad inflated as tight as I can get it, but have heard others use it as Frosty does. If you decide to go with an inflatible, you may want to look at the thermorest prolite line (http://www.thermarest.com/product_selection.aspx?cID=1). The male dino has a Prolite 4 (which is over kill for most of the younger hikers) - it is very durable and well made.
Sorry...I should have mentioned I'm only 33 yrs old. Also, my pad is a closed-cell pad, not the inflatable type. Would the inflatable type make that much of a difference?
So you must have a Z-rest or Ridgerest? I think the later may be more comfortable, but is bulkier and a bit heavier.
The 3/4 Thermarest (inflatable) are definitely more comfortable, but a heavier and more fragile. You can't just toss it on the ground for siesta breaks like you can do with the closed cell pads.
Inflatable are much more comfortable, they also make a pink one 3/4 length for ladies, and you can use your pack under your knees down.
Hope you find a solution :)
A comfortable sleep is important (but so is weight)...
Check out a Prolite 3 (S) only 13 oz. You can put your pack under your feet if you have to. Don't be afraid to try it out in the store before buying.
Getting sniped (beat) with my suggestions by FD and Smiles! :mad:
peter_pan
09-04-2006, 18:04
Don't stay in shelters...
Pick sites with lots of duff....hemlock is top choice.
learn to scoop out hip and shoulder areas for a custom fit.
Or get a DAM...heavier and always a blow out risk.
Or reflect on why there is so much traffic on the comfort of hammocks and then consider all of your options.
Pan
Or reflect on why there is so much traffic on the comfort of hammocks and then consider all of your options.
That's because odd people tend to more vociferious and opinionated! ;)
I like my Prolite, but to be honest, I've had to send two back because of holes, that's the only set back/possibility. Nothing worse that waking up with a flat pad. Have considered a zrest, but I hear they aren't as comfortable, and they just look bulky. I can fold my Prolite in half after it's deflated and it kinda "wraps" around stuff in my bag.
I have the same pad as Frosty due to ortho injuries. I'm more comfy with the pad inflated as tight as I can get it, but have heard others use it as Frosty does. Different strokes for different folks. I used to keep mine tight as a drum, until someone asked me the difference between a .5 inch pad and a 2.5 inch pad if both were so tight they didn't bend when you laid on it. Made sense to the engineer in me, so now I make sure I utilize all 2.5 inches.
i like my z-rest but have never used anything except closed cell pads from my insulite days. I have the ability to sleep anywhere, though, and the pad is more for insulation and rocks than anything else. I actually value it more for sitting on at lunch and camp than sleeping every season except winter
blackbishop351
09-04-2006, 18:47
So you must have a Z-rest or Ridgerest? I think the later may be more comfortable, but is bulkier and a bit heavier.
The 3/4 Thermarest (inflatable) are definitely more comfortable, but a heavier and more fragile. You can't just toss it on the ground for siesta breaks like you can do with the closed cell pads.
I've used the 'regular' inflatable Thermarest, the Ridgerest, and the Z-rest. I find the inflatable model to be the most comfortable (probably because it's the thickest), but also the heaviest by far. I wouldn't let my DOG sleep on a Ridgerest - they SUCK. I love my Z-rest. Much more comfy than the Ridge, more compact than the Ridge, and much MUCH lighter than the inflatable. And, as mentioned above, CCF pads are indestructible for the most part. No worrying about holes.
As always, just my .02 :D
i used a closed cell foam ridgerest for years. i've had 3 of them, and they don't wear out quickly. that being said, i use the big agnes air core full length now, and will never go back. heavy? yes, but you can use it to body surf rapids in small creeks. the new ones are much more durable than the old BA's and thermarest's. i havn't had a single problem out of the one i have now, although they do come with a repair kit included (not always a good sign).
Big Dawg
09-04-2006, 19:01
I love my thermarest prolite 4. There are many options in the prolite series, and they're well worth the weight for this ground dweller, IMHO.:) CCF pads don't cut it for me. They make me wake up all night long, like Michele described.
saimyoji
09-04-2006, 19:07
Haven't looked up the model name, but I have the super thick inflatable full length blue Thermarest. It was a hand-me-down (no longer able to go camping) gift, so I paid nothing for it. Its heavy as hell (4 lbs?) but is a dream to sleep on. I let it inflate, then just before bed I blow it up even more. This works for me. YMMV.
Just Jeff
09-04-2006, 19:26
IMO, my inflatable ThermaRest is much more comfortable to sleep on than my CCF. I've rarely taken it camping though - a CCF was "good enough" for ground sleeping and I didn't want to worry about a puncture. I always had my TR for deployments, though - cots and airplane floors are much more comfortable with a TR on them!
Then I switched to a hammock and don't worry about it - but IMO an inflatable DOES make a big difference in comfort for ground sleeping.
Hana_Hanger
09-04-2006, 20:05
I have been practicing since June with a tent and pads to sleep comfortably on the ground. (Batting Zero "the comfortable part" here by the way!)
I have CCF green with egg waffle designs the regular CCF blue also the Prolite 3 Woman's ending up with the Big Agnes 2.5" air core.
NONE in my eyes are a good nights rest.
IMO I think it is getting use to i,t and trying out different sleeping postions.
Someone (sorry I forgot who it was) suggested to me to try sleeping on my side but forward sorta on the stomach at the same time with one knee bent forward. (hope that makes some sense) and one arm under your head/face. The other arm resting along your side.
Actually it is the postion you do with someone needing medical attention. It has helped me out alot...
saimyoji
09-04-2006, 20:06
My first night in a shelter not so long ago I thought it was weird when a hiking pair split up their tent: one took the tent body, the other the fly. They spread them out on the floor, placed their pads on top, bags on pads. I asked when they put their tent under the pad. The response was: well, we don't want a splinter or something to puncture our pads. My thought was: well, what are you going to do if that splinter rips your tent/fly? :-?
I swear by my Big Agnes insulated air core. It's 2.5 inches thick and I sleep like a baby on it compared to all the Thermarests I've ever owned. I know it's a little heavier but if you sleep well then the extra 6 oz are well worth the extra weight.
laserlips
09-04-2006, 20:12
You got 4 hours sleep? I went on my first shakedown hike this weekend, too.I slept on my brand new thermarest and got, um...maybe 1 hour of non-uninterrupted sleep.I'm blaming total lack of a pillow and overall greenhorned-ness.
Mother Nature
09-04-2006, 20:19
When I am doing long distance hiking I carry a full length z-rest for insulation from the cold and put a 3/4 ultralight self-inflating thermarest on top for my hips and shoulders. Some nights I can't get comfortable unless I lie on my side tuck my extra clothing bag against my chest to support my shoulders at a better angle. I also put a small stuff sack filled with my fleece hat or gloves between my knees to put my back in a better position which seems to help. UGhhhh. Getting old and sleeping on the ground requires a hiker to become a contortionist!
Mother Nature
Hana_Hanger
09-04-2006, 20:26
UGhhhh. Getting old and sleeping on the ground requires a hiker to become a contortionist!
Mother Nature
LOL
Here is a link to the photo of the position that has helped me out some:o
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/presentations/100211_3.htm
Hope that and all the helpful hints work out for you.
I am going to bring TWO pads for sure on my hike!
Kerosene
09-04-2006, 21:16
I agree, inflatable pads are a lot more comfy and less bulky than closed-cell pads. Closed cell pads have the weight advantage, but I've narrowed the gap by using a torso-length pad (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/torsolite_inflatable_sleeping_pad.html) with my legs draped over the padded back of my pack. (Still not as comfortable as a hammock where the lack of pressure points means you don't have to roll as much, but it is a lighter cool-weather setup.)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-04-2006, 21:16
Here is a link to the photo of the position that has helped me out some:o
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...s/100211_3.htm (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/presentations/100211_3.htm)That is exactly how I sleep. It does work.
Kerosene
09-04-2006, 21:19
You got 4 hours sleep? I went on my first shakedown hike this weekend, too.I slept on my brand new thermarest and got, um...maybe 1 hour of non-uninterrupted sleep.I'm blaming total lack of a pillow and overall greenhorned-ness.I typically don't sleep very well the first two nights of my hikes, but eventually I get used to the new way of sleeping. You might consider using earplugs to take away another set of distractions.
bigcranky
09-04-2006, 21:23
Michele,
I have used the Z-rest, the Ridge-rest, and I think about 5 different inflatable Thermarest pads of varying sizes. The inflatable pads are MUCH more comfortable for my old bones than any closed-cell foam pad I have tried. I am currently using a Prolite 4 (Regular Size) that weighs 24 ounces, and easily folds up to fit inside the pad pocket of my pack. There are lighter inflatable pads, but this one is thick enough at 1.5 inches so I get a good night's sleep, even on hard shelter floors. Thermarest makes a women's version which is a little shorter, and has a little more insulation, and weighs the same. (Yes, it's pink. Sorry.)
Before you give up on sleeping on the ground, try an inflatable pad. Good luck.
--Ken
You got 4 hours sleep? I went on my first shakedown hike this weekend, too.I slept on my brand new thermarest and got, um...maybe 1 hour of non-uninterrupted sleep.I'm blaming total lack of a pillow and overall greenhorned-ness.I can't sleep without a pillow, either. I do okay after I found these:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/flexair_ultralight_pillow.html
Kerosene
09-04-2006, 21:46
I can't sleep without a pillow, either. I do okay after I found these:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/flexair_ultralight_pillow.html I just bought these. Another, much less expensive alternative that is almost as good is to go to your local Wal-Mart, buy a pair of kid's water wings, and cut one of them in half to make a 2-chamber air pillow. Not quite as big or comfy as the Flexair's textured surface, a touch heavier at 1 oz., but only costs $1.
A couple of "break in days" definately makes a difference on a long hike! I gook a mini pillow case this year, and anything I didn't have on that was dry went inside, and then it bacame my clothing bag, didn't smell great, but did the trick getting my head up off the ground :)
laserlips
09-04-2006, 22:18
:o I'll be trying it.(or something like it)
Just Jeff
09-04-2006, 22:29
In the beginning, you're likely to feel everything that's uncomfortable b/c you're getting used to a new situation - sleeping outdoors with the critters, sleeping on the ground, sleeping with new gear, etc. After several uses it'll become routine and you'll start getting better sleep and ignoring the little things.
You may still sleep better with a thicker pad, but the pad probably wasn't the only thing keeping you awake if this was one of your first shakedowns.
thermarest "pads" are more for insulation than comfort. Get an inflatable prolite series thermarest because for the comfort u get, the weight can be rationalized.
Just Jeff
09-04-2006, 23:00
Per thickness, the prolite series doesn't provide as much insulation as the other models. Comfort is comparable. Good for summer, may or may not be an issue in winter depending on your setup and conditions.
When I started I got a thermarest and found them pretty uncomfortable. Then I got a Big Agnes insulated air core and love it. However, these have had some quality control issues (slow air leaks). I had the first one replaced and haven't had problems with the second but have heard enough other people with issues that I'm a little leary. This summer I took my parents (in their early 60's) along for their first backpacking trip from Hot Springs to Erwin and got them each the Insul Mat Max-Thermo mattresses and they seemed to like them. Both the Big Agnes and Insul Mat require you to blow them up each night, but its not to bad and provides much more cushion.
Big Dawg
09-05-2006, 11:02
Another thing which I heard-
The inflatable thermarest (and other) pads are actually much worse for insulation in the winter than any closed cell foam pad.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I've always been warm and comfortable using my Prolite 4 in cold conditions,,,, lowest for me down to single digits.
onesocktwin
09-05-2006, 11:43
I started with z-rest, graduated to a regular thermarest, now own the women's prolite 4 reg. Love it and it is lighter than the trail reg. I will be 67 next week, 5'6" 124#....gotta protect those hipbones and get some sleep!
As a side sleeper.......is a hammock a via option?
I started with z-rest, graduated to a regular thermarest, now own the women's prolite 4 reg. Love it and it is lighter than the trail reg. I will be 67 next week, 5'6" 124#....gotta protect those hipbones and get some sleep!
As a side sleeper.......is a hammock a via option?
Yes, the hammock works perfectly for back/side sleepers and some say you can pull off stomach sleeping, but I can't even do that in my pillow-top bed.
I'm going to do some comparisons. I've got a hammock on the way (fellow whiteblazer is loaning it to me!!! Awesome people here) and I may go to REI and get that 2.5" mat.
To all you future thru's DON'T WAIT to try out your gear....if I had just assumed everything was perfect, I'd be in a world of pain come next March.
Just Jeff
09-05-2006, 11:50
Boston - TRs have open cell foam inside. Per oz, CCF has a much higher insulation value than a TR. Especially the Pro-Lite series. But they're not as soft and cushy. Check the chart at the bottom of this page:
http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SPE.htm
Onesocktwin - side sleeping is easy in most hammocks.
sum41punk91
09-05-2006, 17:38
Another thing which I heard-
The inflatable thermarest (and other) pads are actually much worse for insulation in the winter than any closed cell foam pad.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
ya its because the air inside the pad is the temerature as the air outside so if you have a closed cell pad it tends to keep the heat of your body
however you are one of the fisrt people i have heard say they were more comfortable on a ridgerest than an inflatable
My first night in a shelter not so long ago I thought it was weird when a hiking pair split up their tent: one took the tent body, the other the fly. They spread them out on the floor, placed their pads on top, bags on pads. I asked when they put their tent under the pad. The response was: well, we don't want a splinter or something to puncture our pads. My thought was: well, what are you going to do if that splinter rips your tent/fly? :-?
That's why when I'm using a shelter I spread out my ground cloth first and put the therma-rest on top of it.
Need some expert help from everyone here on WB. I went on my first shakedown hike this weekend. Everything went great until I went to bed. I got about 4 hours total sleep due to lower back/hip pain caused by lying on the .625" thick Therm-a-rest pad I've got. I had to keep switching positions side-back-other side-back, etc.
Is this normal? Meaning, should I expect to go through an adjustment period before I can sleep on this thing? If so, how long of an adjustment period?
Or, should I invest in something else? What do you all recommend (besides hammocks)? Thanks!!
:D thats why i quit sleeping on the ground,i only hammock camp:cool: neo
I have to use an inflatable air mattress, a 3/4 length Insulmat Max-Thermo that weighs 15 oz. filled with insulation for cold ground. It's my favorite piece of gear!
white rabbit
09-06-2006, 12:04
I replaced my Ridgerest with a Prolite 3 and now I sleep much better at night. The trick is to inflate it, lay on it without a sleeping bag, and open the valve. Let the air out until you just start to feel the ground on your hip and close the valve.