View Full Version : Hammocking...make it REAL simple please
In light of my weekend experience w/the Therm-a-Rock (a.k.a. thermarest) I am open to exploring all other options. I know zero about hammocking. I did read through several posts and visited Just Jeff's site, but didn't find a simplified breakdown of the complete "set-up". I have a few basic question to get me started in learning about this:
1. What are all of the components needed? (a simple list will work for now)
2. I own a WM 20-degree bag...do you use sleeping bags w/Hammocks?
3. How do you Hammock in the Smoky's?
4. Is there anywhere on the AT (during a thru) that you can't hang and what did you do?
5. Approximate cost for the whole set-up? (I don't sew..can't make my own)
6. Where can I try one of these out?
Thanks all you hangers!!
Michele--you posted alot of great questions to which I have no answers 'cause I'm in the exact same boat as you. My poor old back is dog tired of being on the ground every night and I'm looking forward to some good, re****l nights' sleep when I'm on the trail.
Michele, if you don't mind, I have one additional question I would like to add. Does one hammock fit better than another in terms of a person's size, e.g does an HH fit a taller, heavier user more comfortably than some other hammock makers?:confused:
Thanks for posting such succinct questions and thanks to those hangers who respond!:D
Oh, I've got about 20 more, but didn't want to overwhelm all the hangers out there. Good question addition...thanks!
Ok, here goes nothing...
1.)Hammock, tarp, bugnet. (buy an HH and you get all 3)
2.)Yes, you do use sleeping bags. However, since the cold air can get to the bottom compressed side, you either need an underquilt or down air mattress or the like for cold nights, but there are setups that'll keep you warm down below 0.
3.)There are 3 options that hammockers have for sleeping in GSMNP. One is to give up the hammock and sleep in the privies with the mice and bears... err... I mean shelters. The second is to plan your trip so that the shelters are full and you have a thru-hiker pass. This means you get to sleep outside of the shelter. The third option that some people do is stealth camp. Of course, I would never condone such treasonous acts as they would surely align you with the axis of evil. ;)
4.) Haven't thru'd yet, but read between the lines of answer 3 and this won't be a problem as far as I know.
5.) I got my HH backpacker asym either on here or the BPL forums for $80 shipped. It was like new condition. Took me a few weeks of looking, but it was worth it. I've tried a few different setups and the HH asyms are not only hard, but impossible to beat for mild weather 3 season stuff imo.
6.) There's always the option of buying one from REI and trying it out in your backyard. Just don't get it dirty and you can take it back if you don't like it. I know this probably sounds weird, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Of the dozens (if not over a hundred) of people I have seen that have gone to hammocks, I can only remember one or two that didn't like them. You're odds are pretty good that you'll never want to sleep on the ground again.
Good question Brick. I've found that personal preference has more to do with it than size. I prefer the flat bottom entry (generally asym) style of the HH. As long as it's long enough and strong enough to support your height/weight, I can't think of one being better suited to a particular body style. One thing I will tell you, is HH's have quite a bit of margin of error built in. I read something once from a 270 lb guy that used a HH backpacker rated for 200 lbs. My friend is 6' 3" and fits in my HH backpacker rated for less than 6' with another couple of inches to spare. In fact, as soon as I save up, I'm going to sell my backpacker and get an HH Adventure Racer (I'm 6').
I know it's a big change in thinking to go from a ground dweller's setup to a hammock. These are all great questions, feel free to ask away. :D speedy
Oh, one more thing. Michele, great sig!
blackbishop351
09-04-2006, 22:34
If Speedy doesn't mind, I might add a couple of things - but he definitely hit the high points right on the head!
1) You'll also need some sort of bottom insulation if you're going to use the hammock below about 65 F.
Tarps are a point of much contention among hammockers, if you read the archives. There are some die-hards who stick with the stock HH fly (like Sgt. Rock), while many of us, myself included, feel it's a bit inadequate. I've never gotten wet using it, but I just don't FEEL comfortable. I bought a 9x9 from Sportsman's Guide. The other (lighter weight) popular options are the Jacks 'R' Better 8x8 and the MacCat hex tarp.
2) Because of #1, Speedy is exactly right. Bottom insulation comes in two main categories - CCF pads (many, many different types/deployments of these) and underquilts.
The two underquilt manufacturers I know of are Jacks 'R' Better and Kickass Quilts. These are both cottage-type businesses whose owners are backpackers and who also post here regularly.
Yes, you can use your sleeping bag in your hammock. Do you need to? Well, that kinda depends on who you ask. My personal opinion is that it's a bit more weight than you need, since your bottom insulation is separate. You're sort of wasting part of the bag. I'm using a MI poncho liner at the moment (mild weather) and will be making a Ray-Way overquilt soon.
5) I got my HH ULB with #2 snakeskins on Ebay for $75. And just a suggestion - if you like the idea of light, completely customized gear, LEARN TO SEW. I started about two months ago and I've made TONS of stuff. It's just about the EASIEST thing you'll ever learn. All of this PLUS a lot of money saved.
6) Buy from REI...or find somebody on here that'll let you try theirs.
Brick - I'm 6'0" and have PLENTY room in my HH ULB. I've had two other friends, both around 6'2", try it out too without problems.
As always, just my .02 :D
Just Jeff
09-04-2006, 22:54
"1. What are all of the components needed? (a simple list will work for now)"
Hammock - with or w/o bugnet
Tarp
Top insulation - sleeping bag or quilt inside hammock
Bottom insulation - underquilt or pad
"2. I own a WM 20-degree bag...do you use sleeping bags w/Hammocks?"
Yes. It's easier to drape it over you like a quilt instead of getting inside, though. Or you can get a quilt instead.
"3. How do you Hammock in the Smoky's?"
Haven't done the Smokies...folks on here say it's not much of a problem, though. See speedy's answers.
"4. Is there anywhere on the AT (during a thru) that you can't hang and what did you do?"
I haven't thru'd yet but others here say it's not a problem anywhere. Above treeline in the Whites, but you can still find nearby sites to hang.
"5. Approximate cost for the whole set-up? (I don't sew..can't make my own)"
Depends on what you get. Use a tarp you already have, get a $20 Byer w/o bugnet, your current bag and two CCF pads. Total - about $30.
Or get the new HH Hyperlite, the JRB set and a MacCat. Total - over $500.
And everything in between. Check here for some real-world setups. The costs aren't listed but you could look them of if you're interested.
http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockGroundWeights.html
"6. Where can I try one of these out?"
If there aren't any hammockers near you, I'd second the REI recommendation. Even if you get it dirty they'll take it back with no questions. I almost bought one at the member sale last month but I pulled it out and it was pretty thrashed...even the support rope was frayed. Someone returned it that way. So buy one and check it out, and don't feel guilty about returning it if it doesn't work for you. That's what their return policy is for (and not for returning thrashed gear like this guy's hammock!).
"Does one hammock fit better than another in terms of a person's size, e.g does an HH fit a taller, heavier user more comfortably than some other hammock makers?"
Like speedy said, it's more about preference. Generally, longer hammocks are more comfortable no matter what size the user is, but obviously they weigh more. HH and Speer have models specifically for taller and heavier users, though.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=12304729&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1&addon=696121-684942&ext_cat=REI_RELATED_ITEMS_PRODUCT_PAGE&vcat=REI_SEARCH
An entire Hammock system for only 1lb 15 oz!!??? Is this a good system? I'm only 5'6" and currently weigh around 175 lbs (that will be changing w/in 2 weeks on the AT though), so this should be comfortable right? I'm most concerned about back support. I can't sleep "sagging" but am a back/side sleeper...never on my stomach. Is this possible w/this hammock?
All I'd need is an underquilt and I think I'd want a larger tarp. Also, what do you do w/all your gear to keep it protected/dry? Did I see somewhere that there is an additional gear bag that you can store your pack and everything in and then hang it on the line?
One last question.....are there explicit knot-tying instructions? Not the best at fancy knots, but can learn. OK...now I'm getting excited here. Might just have to order this thing and give it a whirl. God knows if this worked out...there are always a ton of people looking for a Hubba tent and my therm-a-rock..well, I'd like to burn that damn thing! :D
hammock engineer
09-05-2006, 00:20
That is the one that I have and it is perfect for my size. It is going to be a little big for you. If you are looking for lighter, look at the light racer on the HH page. Not as durable but smaller and lighter.
That is the one that I have and it is perfect for my size. It is going to be a little big for you. If you are looking for lighter, look at the light racer on the HH page. Not as durable but smaller and lighter.
Oh god...I was thrilled to see this at this weight, considering my Hubba weighs 3 lbs! Will a larger size be more comfortable?
blackbishop351
09-05-2006, 00:26
Yes, it's true - The HH ULB Asym. That's the one I use, and it weighed in at 1lb. 12.2 oz. WITH fly and #2 snakeskins.
At your height and weight, you could stick with Hennessy and go even lighter - the Ultralight Racer would work for you if I'm not mistaken. Check out the whole line: http://www.hennessyhammock.com/catalogue-hammocks.htm
As far as storing your gear, the JRB/Just Jeff gear hammock is the best idea I've seen yet. Check it out too: http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Jeffs%20Gear%20Hammock-Pack%20Cover.htm
For the Hennessy, there's an instructional video for Tom's lashing on his website. Ed Speer uses straps on his hammocks instead of ropes. There are instructions for a version of his "4-wrap" webbing knot on Risk's site: http://www.imrisk.com/hammock/improvedknot.htm
Another suggestion for before/after you buy a hammock would be to join the HammockCamping Yahoo group. Lots of great info, and the group was founded by Ed Speer, who also posts regularly.
Happy hanging!
hammock engineer
09-05-2006, 00:45
One thing I forgot to mention is that there is a learning curve to hammocking. It isn't hard, it just takes a while to learn. Definitly do a lot of back yard testing. I have a JRB underquilt and really like it. If the temp is going to be below 40, you will probibly want to add a pad or thicker underquilt.
hammock engineer
09-05-2006, 00:49
Oh god...I was thrilled to see this at this weight, considering my Hubba weighs 3 lbs! Will a larger size be more comfortable?
If you add a larger tarp and take into account the bottom insulation, the weight should be about the same. Jeff did a good comparison of tarp/tent/hammock weighs by temp somewhere on WB. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I remember everything being pretty close. To me it is more of a comfort thing. I would carry it at 5lbs.
Just Jeff
09-05-2006, 00:58
That's one of the most popular hammocks here at WB, I think. That and the Explorer Ultralight.
The Speer is probably the closest second to HH. The weight difference between the HH and Speer is b/c the Speer comes with an 8x10 tarp. http://www.speerhammocks.com
The stock tarp on the HH BULA is 7 oz. If you replace it with a bigger one you'll still be barely over 2 lbs. But an underquilt weighs more than a CCF pad. In the end, the weight will probably be w/in a few ounces of your ground setup...but even if it's heavier, if you're comfortable in a hammock a few extra ounces will get you a solid night's sleep.
The lashing is cake once you get it down, but it can be confusing the first few times. Check the video - there's also a video at www.theplacewithnoname.com (http://www.theplacewithnoname.com)
Shutterbug
09-05-2006, 01:14
I just started using a hammock this year, so I don't have as much experience as some of the others. I suggest that you first try a hammock without the underquilt.
I have used my HH down to 40 degrees and have not felt the need for the underquilt. I am using a down sleeping bag rated to 20 degrees. So far, I have slept comfortably and warm.
I suggest that you try the hammock with the sleeping bag you intend to use. If you get cold spots, then add the underquilt. If you are comfortable without it, why carry the extra weight?
I have used my hammock on the Wonderland Trail in Mt. Rainier National Park and in the 100 Mile Wilderness in Maine. So far, I have not failed to find a place to hang.
Just Jeff
09-05-2006, 01:20
Jeff did a good comparison of tarp/tent/hammock weighs by temp somewhere on WB.
It's this one linked above.
http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockGroundWeights.html
freefall
09-05-2006, 04:00
I used my HH on my hike this year(GA>NJ). I have the expedition Asym w/ stock fly, a 20deg synthetic bag, thermarest prolite3 short. It worked for me down to 15 degrees (with no wind) in the Smokeys( I did wear all my clothes to bed that night though). I have never lashed it the way they recommend and never had a problem. With some practice, you will have little/no sag in the hammock and can sleep easily on your back or side and I woke up a few times and found myself comfortably on my stomach.
Michele, I have a HH that you can borrow to try out. Just pay shipping. I am leaving tomorrow for the C/O Canal Trail for 2+ weeks. If you pm me with addy etc I'll send it out to you.
peter_pan
09-05-2006, 08:32
Michele,
Thanks for keeping an open mind and considering all the options...you will be luxoriously rewarded...
Couple of notes....the HH expedition, BULA, Extreme Light Racer and Hyper light are all the same size...each has different weight, due to different material and some minor feature differences. Hyper lite although more costly may be the best hammock in this group- almost the lightest (ELR is an oz or two lighter)...but more durable per HH web site. For your size and weight this size hammock will be great.
Hammocks are generally lighter than a Hubba....even with an under quilt or pad... the total should come to about 3 pounds....remember the Hubba still requires you to use a pad ( yours is still an issue, unless you solved the issue of your other thread), and a ground sheet, for most folks, plus more pegs etc.
What ever you do...don't go testing/hiking with a hammock with night temps expected below 70 without some bottom insulation....try it without if you want, but have a bail out plan for this issue....For every poster that can get by with just their bag, probably a very heavy one, there are 100 posters that have learned this the hard way....And a lot more who say, "Amen".
Come on over ...enjoy the Hanging!
Pan
Ok...so this must be some sort of omen. I rarely dream, but I woke up this morning totally excited about the prospect of hammocking, and I even had a dream about it. I've checked out all the videos and this looks VERY doable...and the knot tying is a no brainer once you practice a few times...or it seems to me anyway.
A HUGE HUGE thanks so mrc237 who is willing to loan me a hammock so I can try it out. Again..taken back by the generosity of this community. I'm proud to be part of it.
I don't care of my overall set-up is a few oz more. My ground set-up (if I chose to stay w/it) would HAVE to be probably at least 14 oz more, because I'd have to be using a thicker pad or 2 pads, so pain-free sleep is worth a few oz.
I don't have any trees in my apartment complex, BUT, there is a hiking trail w/tons of trees nearby, and I'll go there if I have to. Once I feel comfortable rigging it up, I'll go out on an overnight where it's legal to camp. Crossing my fingers here!!! I really want this to work. Thanks for getting me kick started everyone. :sun
TN_Hiker
09-05-2006, 09:20
Michele, I have a HH that you can borrow to try out. Just pay shipping. I am leaving tomorrow for the C/O Canal Trail for 2+ weeks. If you pm me with addy etc I'll send it out to you.
MRC237 === hats off to you!! What a wonderful and generous offer....almost like trail magic. Another fine example of Whiteblazers helping other Whiteblazers.
Michele === try it, you will like it, and never want to get on the ground again. Just besure and address the learning curve at home as suggested.
Just Jeff
09-05-2006, 10:41
I don't care of my overall set-up is a few oz more. My ground set-up (if I chose to stay w/it) would HAVE to be probably at least 14 oz more, because I'd have to be using a thicker pad or 2 pads, so pain-free sleep is worth a few oz.
And that's the key. Lots of folks who say hammocks weigh so much more are comparing a tarp and a CCF torso pad or something. Gotta look at feature for feature, and still decide how much a good night's sleep is worth.
Personally, I'd rather carry a hammock and leave the heavy pad at home.
Hammocks are great in the summer without the use of a "bottom pad". I did a one week hammock camping spurt recently, failed to carry a ridgerest... and I was cold. I ended up flipping my sleeping bag over and lining the bottom of the hammock with my rain jacket to get some sleep.
Summer camping...where the temp drops to 50 or 60...I will always use a hammock. Anything less and I can't justify carrying a hammock AND a sleeping mat.
Setup: Campmor Sil-Nylon tarp
Byer Mos. Hammock http://www.byerofmaine.com/amazonas-moskito.htm
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=88643&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1
So do you need a sleeping pad if you use an underquilt?
SGT Rock
09-05-2006, 13:08
Depends on how warm or cold you sleep and the weather. I carry a pad because it is still lighter than the quilt and I am a gram weenie at times about things. My system in a nutshell:
HH Asym Ultralight with the stock tarp (I use my MatCat only when hiking with others). - 31.9 ounces
2 plastic tent pegs 0.1 ounce each...
Above 60F:
Ultralight 1/2" pad - homemade - 9.6 ounces
JRB No-Sniveler Quilt (used as top quilt) - 18.0 ounces
Between 33F and 59F Add:
Hungry Howie quilt - 17.7 ounces
JRB shock Cords - 1.2 ounces
I mix it up based on what I feel like. The best way to sleep is without the pad, but if it gets really cold the pad helps keep me nice and toasty.
32F and below Add:
JRB Weathershield 14.9 ounces with the stuff sack.
peter_pan
09-05-2006, 13:42
Depends on how warm or cold you sleep and the weather. I carry a pad because it is still lighter than the quilt and I am a gram weenie at times about things. My system in a nutshell:
HH Asym Ultralight with the stock tarp (I use my MatCat only when hiking with others). - 31.9 ounces
2 plastic tent pegs 0.1 ounce each...
Above 60F:
Ultralight 1/2" pad - homemade - 9.6 ounces
JRB No-Sniveler Quilt (used as top quilt) - 18.0 ounces
Between 33F and 59F Add:
Hungry Howie quilt - 17.7 ounces
JRB shock Cords - 1.2 ounces
I mix it up based on what I feel like. The best way to sleep is without the pad, but if it gets really cold the pad helps keep me nice and toasty.
32F and below Add:
JRB Weathershield 14.9 ounces with the stuff sack.
Rock,
Believe you left off your No Sniveller as under quilt is your 33-59* list above.
Pan
Just Jeff
09-05-2006, 13:45
So do you need a sleeping pad if you use an underquilt?
No. Of course, if it's colder than your underquilt is rated for then a pad will add more insulation. But so would a thicker underquilt if you have the $$$ to buy one.
But bringing only an underquilt means you won't have a pad if you want to stay in a shelter sometimes. Tradeoffs...
SGT Rock
09-05-2006, 13:52
Rock,
Believe you left off your No Sniveller as under quilt is your 33-59* list above.
Pan
Yes, that is what I meant for it to say. I go with the no-sniveler as the under-quilt and the Hungry Howie top quilt. The pad stays with my pack unless I need to add it for warmth.
Depends on how warm or cold you sleep and the weather. I carry a pad because it is still lighter than the quilt and I am a gram weenie at times about things. My system in a nutshell:
HH Asym Ultralight with the stock tarp (I use my MatCat only when hiking with others). - 31.9 ounces
2 plastic tent pegs 0.1 ounce each...
Above 60F:
Ultralight 1/2" pad - homemade - 9.6 ounces
JRB No-Sniveler Quilt (used as top quilt) - 18.0 ounces
Between 33F and 59F Add:
Hungry Howie quilt - 17.7 ounces
JRB shock Cords - 1.2 ounces
I mix it up based on what I feel like. The best way to sleep is without the pad, but if it gets really cold the pad helps keep me nice and toasty.
32F and below Add:
JRB Weathershield 14.9 ounces with the stuff sack.
So I did a quick calculation. Substituting my WM ultralite 20-degree bag for a top quilt and keeping my thermarest for my pad, but using everything else in your coldest weather set-up, I'd be adding exactly 1 lb to my pack weight, making my overall packweight w/4 days food and 2 liters water around 32 lbs. I think a good nights' sleep would definitely be worth this weight sacrifice AND the warmer it gets, the more weight I send home, so my warmest weather set-up would be around 2.1 lbs, which is far lighter than the unchanging 5.68 lbs tent option.
Hmmm.....you hangers sure know how to recruit! :D Mrc237 pm'd me and said the hammock I'm borrowing to test should be to me this Friday!! He (I'm assuming mrc is a man but I could be wrong), said he didn't remember what style HH it was, but that it was a little older. Nonetheless, I should be able to get a really good idea if this is going to work.
SGT Rock
09-05-2006, 15:10
Just something to add based on experience!
Loose the Thermarest - they do not work well at all in hammocks because they slide and they are not wide enough - plus they weigh too much. Go to Wal-Mart and find the blue closed cell foam pad that is 24" wide and get that, then trim it. 18" wide at the foot and as tall as you are. You will be much happier and probably save that extra pound.
Just something to add based on experience!
Loose the Thermarest - they do not work well at all in hammocks because they slide and they are not wide enough - plus they weigh too much. Go to Wal-Mart and find the blue closed cell foam pad that is 24" wide and get that, then trim it. 18" wide at the foot and as tall as you are. You will be much happier and probably save that extra pound.
Cool, that sounds like a good plan. Just to confirm I understand here, the pad isn't so much for comfort as it is for keeping in body heat right? I'm a cold sleeper, so I'm pretty sure I'd need this.
So what's so great about the MatCat tarps? I finally found a pic of one and it looks awesome, but what makes it stand out so much from others? Also, I keep seeing everyone say "when I save the $ to buy one," how expensive are these things? Thanks again!
Just Jeff
09-05-2006, 18:34
Check out a SPE if you're going to use a pad. It's worth it IMO.
http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SPE.htm
And some info on the MacCat.
- http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Tarps%20and%20Bivys/MacCat%20Standard%20Hammock%20Tarp/Owner%20Review%20by%20Jeff%20Jackson/
- http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockCampingDry.html
In light of my weekend experience w/the Therm-a-Rock (a.k.a. thermarest) I am open to exploring all other options. I know zero about hammocking. I did read through several posts and visited Just Jeff's site, but didn't find a simplified breakdown of the complete "set-up". I have a few basic question to get me started in learning about this:
1. What are all of the components needed? (a simple list will work for now)
2. I own a WM 20-degree bag...do you use sleeping bags w/Hammocks?
3. How do you Hammock in the Smoky's?
4. Is there anywhere on the AT (during a thru) that you can't hang and what did you do?
5. Approximate cost for the whole set-up? (I don't sew..can't make my own)
6. Where can I try one of these out?
Thanks all you hangers!!
i use a regular sleeping bag in a hammock
one with 3/4 length zipper,i uzip the bag to my knee's
that makes a great foot box,i use the bag as quilt,any pad
will work in a hammock,wider are better,i sleep in a pull over
knit watch cap in the winter,all you need is conventional gear
i prefer an over sized camo tarp,here are examples of my gear
my tarp
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=12097&catid=member&imageuser=3462
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=97247
i love this bag
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=9352&catid=member&imageuser=3462
http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=027439&Category_Code=35
:D hammocking is sweet and simple:cool: neo
I don't know why people would be saying Maccat's are expensive. I was really impressed with Brian's prices compared to the avg cottage industry makers. His website, with prices, is here (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/index.html). The three things maccats have going are great construction, superior hex shape (this one is totally an opinion of course) and the cat cut edges. Cat cut edges allow the surface of the tarp to be pulled taut with significantly less force on the tieouts. This is also my one problem with the maccat design. The ridgeline is not catenary cut. Why Brian has chosen not to do this is way beyond me. As much as I hate buying stuff that I can make, I probably would have bought a maccat if they had a cat ridge. Short of making your own, I still think they're the best though. The only problem with them is, Brian won't be making them again 'til at least the end of this semester. :D speedy
Edit: Neo, would you say that 25-35 deg rating on that bag is fairly accurate?
FanaticFringer
09-05-2006, 23:05
I use a HH Expedition Deluxe and love it. I just ordered a Byer Mosquito Traveller Hammock from www.ccoutdoorstore.com/bymotrha.html. It cost only $19.95. I plan on letting my nephew borrow it. I am going to read a couple of nice threads on this hammock to determine the best way to rig it to trees as it is not quite complete in that regard.
I ordered two of the Parkas that Neo is referring to. I sent them back the next day and ordered me a No Sniveller from the Jacks. Decent products but too heavy and a little cumbersome.
Just Jeff
09-05-2006, 23:20
A cat cut ridgeline means the tarp has an optimal pitch angle. Brian's don't have an optimal pitch angle, which seems like a big advantage for a hammock. Also, the cat cut would reduce the headroom - his tarp feels cavernous inside b/c it's not cat cut. It would also make construction a bit more complex, and based on the current performance in high winds I'm not sure a cat ridgeline would add anything substantial.
But it's really just a preference thing - I'm not trying to speak for Brian and couldn't say exactly why he chose to use a straight ridgeline. :D
Yes, that is what I meant for it to say. I go with the no-sniveler as the under-quilt and the Hungry Howie top quilt. The pad stays with my pack unless I need to add it for warmth.
Is the Hungry Howie comparable to the Old Rag Mtn. included in the JRB 4 season set?
hammock engineer
09-06-2006, 02:07
I am really happy with my McCat tarp. I would fully recommend the deluxe to anyone.
SGT Rock
09-06-2006, 08:31
Is the Hungry Howie comparable to the Old Rag Mtn. included in the JRB 4 season set?
I cannot honestly answer that since I never tried the Old Rag Mountain. The Hungry Howie quilt is not something you can just go get, Howie actually made that one for me as a prototype. It is VERY similar to the Nunatack Arc Alpinist, but not completely. It is much warmer than my No-Sniveler because it hugs up on you pretty well and that is why I don't carry it in warmer weather even though it is a little lighter than my No-Sniveler - because it is too warm sometimes. Other than that, the only other thing I can say about the difference is the material. The HH quilt is made of some VERY soft nylon that feels a lot more comfy next to the skin than the JRB quilt. I talked to the Jacks about that and they prefer the material they use more but I cannot remember the why right this second. It is 108 in my trailer because the AC went out while I was on patrol today and my brain isn't working at 100%.
SGT Rock
09-06-2006, 08:40
Cool, that sounds like a good plan. Just to confirm I understand here, the pad isn't so much for comfort as it is for keeping in body heat right? I'm a cold sleeper, so I'm pretty sure I'd need this.
Yes it is about warmth, and you could use it in a shelter in a pinch if you had too. The pad will curl around your body and with an 18" wide pad this means your shoulders will get cold since it isn't wide enough. My recommendation is to cut the pad to a mummy shape - lay on it and make sure the sides are long enough before you taper to the bottom. This is not only to save weight, but it also keeps the pad under you better in my experience. When I used my Army issue pad in Iraq in 2003-04 it kept curling around my feet and my feet ended up on the hammock and not the pad. After I trimmed it to 18" wide at the bottom I didn't have that problem anymore. But I had to pay for a pad when I cleared that unit LOL.
So what's so great about the MatCat tarps? I finally found a pic of one and it looks awesome, but what makes it stand out so much from others? Also, I keep seeing everyone say "when I save the $ to buy one," how expensive are these things? Thanks again!
MatCat tarps give you extra space under the tarp. Your tarp is like your vestibule in a tent without adding any weight. Simply push your hammock off to the side while you cook, change, or whatever and then when it is bed time you straighten it back out. When you use an over-sized tarp you get better space. And the Mat Cat tarp is a good tarp for the money. Cottage industry stuff. It is not the biggest, or the lightest, but it is light, it is plenty big enough, and it is very sturdy. I don't feel I need it, I have taken some bad storms in a stock Hennessy tarp and did just fine. Some feel they need a bigger tarp.
txulrich
09-06-2006, 09:11
MatCat tarps give you extra space under the tarp. Your tarp is like your vestibule in a tent without adding any weight. Simply push your hammock off to the side while you cook, change, or whatever and then when it is bed time you straighten it back out. When you use an over-sized tarp you get better space. And the Mat Cat tarp is a good tarp for the money. Cottage industry stuff. It is not the biggest, or the lightest, but it is light, it is plenty big enough, and it is very sturdy. I don't feel I need it, I have taken some bad storms in a stock Hennessy tarp and did just fine. Some feel they need a bigger tarp.
Well said. My only comment would be that the tarp is also a comfort/trust issue. With the stock tarp, I wasn't comfortable because I didn't trust it. It probably would have worked fine, but I didn't really sleep well as I was waiting for the rain to sneak in. With the MacCat (or any larger tarp I suppose), I don't have to worry about it, so I sleep better. Now I say, "Bring on the Rain. Let it pour!!"
SGT Rock
09-06-2006, 09:14
Gotta have faith in your gear ;)
Seems I heard that somewhere else. Great example txulrich, you said it better than I tried to.
peter_pan
09-06-2006, 10:47
I cannot honestly answer that since I never tried the Old Rag Mountain. The Hungry Howie quilt is not something you can just go get, Howie actually made that one for me as a prototype. It is VERY similar to the Nunatack Arc Alpinist, but not completely. It is much warmer than my No-Sniveler because it hugs up on you pretty well and that is why I don't carry it in warmer weather even though it is a little lighter than my No-Sniveler - because it is too warm sometimes. Other than that, the only other thing I can say about the difference is the material. The HH quilt is made of some VERY soft nylon that feels a lot more comfy next to the skin than the JRB quilt. I talked to the Jacks about that and they prefer the material they use more but I cannot remember the why right this second. It is 108 in my trailer because the AC went out while I was on patrol today and my brain isn't working at 100%.
Rock,
The HH quilt is probably made of some .85 oz material that thru-hiker had a couple years back...JRB made some prototypes with it ....We decided against it for several reasons....big bump in cost...it is double calendared so it breathes less than 1.1 which is normally single calendared... It has a clamier feel during warm weather,feet stuck, etc when first settling in.... also little tougher to sew which also would mean higher labor/cost.
Note for Austexs.... the ORM is 3+ inches thick, believe Rocks HHQ is 2-2.5...both have 800 pf down.
Pan
SGT Rock
09-06-2006, 13:31
Thanks for clearing that up Peter pan. That sparks the conversation we had back then about it.
I love my No-Sniveler. What you said about feeling less clammy in hot weather is right on the money. The No-Sniveler sort of lays on you like a blanket of warm air when the HH wraps you up sort of tight. When it is very cold that is a good thing, when it is not, that sucks- hence my choice of the NS for most hiking.
I was comparing the JRB "Nest" and "No Sniveller" Is the only real difference in these that the Nest is specifically designed to be an underquilt and the No Sniveller can be either (as long as I tell JRB I've got an asym hammock that is)? I didn't see temp ratings, but it did say for 3-season and 800 +fill, so I can assume this would work for my thru next year right? (assuming I'll love a hammock, I'm already making a christmas list to give to Santa! ;) )
Also, jumping to a different piece of gear, I saw MacCat sells a guy line kit w/stakes. So does this mean no stakes come w/ the MacCat Deluxe and this is an additional required purchase, or is it for extra stability and optional? Thanks!!
So far my wish list is:
HH Hyperlite (the new one)
MacCat Deluxe (I melt when rain hits me :p )
JRB Nest Underquilt
Snakeskins (don't know which ones yet...still researching)
Probably a homemade pad (per Sgt Rock's advice)
I'll use my WM ultralite 20-degree as a quilt ( it's full zip) or as a foot sack and quilt
Am I leaving anything out here? I'm also reading Sgt Rocks and Just Jeff's sites about this whole gear storage thing. I'm a visual learner, so if anyone knows of any additional pics of hanging your pack/gear under your hammock, let me know. Thanks as always!!!!!!!
SGT Rock
09-06-2006, 15:35
I was comparing the JRB "Nest" and "No Sniveller" Is the only real difference in these that the Nest is specifically designed to be an underquilt and the No Sniveller can be either (as long as I tell JRB I've got an asym hammock that is)? I didn't see temp ratings, but it did say for 3-season and 800 +fill, so I can assume this would work for my thru next year right? (assuming I'll love a hammock, I'm already making a christmas list to give to Santa! ;) )
Actually the Nest and NS can both be used as underquilts or top quilts, I think the NS does it better based on design, but I never tried the Nest. The NS is one of my most favorite piece of gear and I think every hammock hanger should have one ;)
Also, jumping to a different piece of gear, I saw MacCat sells a guy line kit w/stakes. So does this mean no stakes come w/ the MacCat Deluxe and this is an additional required purchase, or is it for extra stability and optional? Thanks!!
My MacCat did not come with stakes or strings, get some triptease for that. For stakes look at aluminum gutter nails from Lowes.
So far my wish list is:
HH Hyperlite (the new one)
MacCat Deluxe (I melt when rain hits me :p )
JRB Nest Underquilt
Snakeskins (don't know which ones yet...still researching)
Probably a homemade pad (per Sgt Rock's advice)
I'll use my WM ultralite 20-degree as a quilt ( it's full zip) or as a foot sack and quilt
Am I leaving anything out here? I'm also reading Sgt Rocks and Just Jeff's sites about this whole gear storage thing. I'm a visual learner, so if anyone knows of any additional pics of hanging your pack/gear under your hammock, let me know. Thanks as always!!!!!!!
Sounds like you have a good gear list. Go for it. I think it should work out fine. Get you four stakes and you will have it worked out. As for gear storage, think about that gear hammock/pack cover idea. That looks like a winner.
No MacCat until Jan.
I now remember reading that post (before I knew I'd be looking into this route). Does that mean he gets back in January and then I'd order it and then wait another few months? What's the turn around time usually? I may have to consider using something else, because I leave on March 12 for Springer. Hmmm....thanks for the info.
Just Jeff
09-06-2006, 16:08
I think the Nest does better as an underquilt for an HH b/c the velcro helps it stay nice and tight. And the NS does better as a top quilt b/c I can wear it as a poncho w/o having to unclip it from the hammock. If you don't attach the velcro slits, it makes no difference. You can still wrap the Nest around to for camp wear so it doesn't really matter.
But that's really just a detail - either will work as an underquilt or a top quilt or camp wear.
And most aftermarket tarps don't come with lines and stakes unless they say otherwise.