View Full Version : winter thru hike
I have recently been planning on doing my thru hike. I was gonna do a nobo but would it be better to do a sobo seeing as how I want to start it around october 9th.I am geared for a winter so I can do either.. does anyone know the cut off for katahdin? I think its oct 15th? so I could make it up in time. would a sobo be safer instead of heading into deep winter be heading south? please respond to this post if you have winter expieriance .I really need some input seeing as the time is drawing close...thx:)
YOUR SERIOUS, do you have extreme winter backpacking experience????
yes I am very serious, and yes I do have quite a bit of winter hikeing expieriance, just not on the AT lots of hikeing in california, north carolina and indiana. I have the proper gear but was just wandering if it would be smarter to go south bound.I dont particularly want to spend the whole time in a blizzard or attempt anything like summiting in the snow. thats why I asked for input from people who have either done a winter thru or live in the area ..thx..but yes I am gonna do it ..if you have any ideas or advice it would be appreciated
Jack Tarlin
09-05-2006, 14:33
Assuming you start your trip in October:
*You'll have ample time to climb Katahdin, but you probably don't
want to do it after the 15th. In fact, better to do it around the
9th or the 10th.
*It takes most folks 22-27 days to hike Maine
*It takes most folks 12-14 days to hike New Hampshire
I suspect Maine will be easier for you weather-wise than NH, though there are a few higher-altitude places (Whitecap, the Bigelow Range, esp. Mt. Avery; the Crockers; Sadddleback; etc. that could be interesting).
You will certainly run into cold weather in New Hampshire, and possibly, snow.
You'll be going thru the high peaks of the Presidential Range in mid-November.
Expect it to be winter there.
Keep in mind that by the time you get there, most of the AMC Huts will be closed for the season and you will NOT be able to count on them for meals, shelter, etc.
With adequate clothing and gear, you should be OK. A few ideas: ALWAYS carry something warm and dry to change into at the end of the day; never
let your long underwear get wet during the day (from either sweat or weather) if you're planning on sleeping in it at day's end. You might want to carry an extra set of long johns. Be sure your storm gear is top quality; consider carrying extra socks; bring a good hat, and make sure your gloves are both wind and waterproof. Some kind of wind/rain pant is probably a good idea, even if you don't normally wear these. Pack extra food when you leave towns in Maine and NH; protracted periods of bad weather may cause your mileage to go down, or you might have to shorten your hiking days because of bad weather. This means that certain stretches of Trail might take longer than you'd planned; therefore, you might neeed extra rations. Remember, there will NOT be many other hikers around to help if you run short. Absolutely carry current maps with you in case you need to get off the Trail in a hurry.
Things will get much easier in Vermont, tho in a few places (Killington or Stratton) it could get interesting. Vermont generally takes 10-12 days to traverse.
Once you get into southern new England (Mass. and Conn.) it'll get MUCH easier. It can be cold and wet there in late November/early December, but it'd be rare to see much snow.
Trerrain-wise, it'll be fairly easy going til you get to Northern Virginia. You'll see some snow, mostly in mid-January to early March, but you'll have long stretches without it.
Good news is that from mid October on, you'll ALWAYS have shelter space if you need it, at least til you get down South. Make sure you bring along plenty to read!
Things will get interesting again in the Mount Rogers area of Southwestern Virginia, and then again in the Roan Highlands, but it'll almost be spring by the time you get there; you should be fine.
The Smokies will be fine by the time you get there; assuming your trip takes seven months or so, it'll actually be pretty warm by the time you get there, so you probably won't encounter any of the cold weather problems most Northbounders do.
North Carolina and Georgia in April and May are wonderful, it's a great time to be down there.
A few last things to remember: When you get down South, don't ditch your winter gear too soon (it can snow on Mt. Rogers well into May); remember that a lot of hostels will be closed from October to February; at some point, most likely somewhere in SW Virginia or Tennessee, you'll start encountering Northbounders so don't take for granted you'll have shelter space; and lastly, whatever your budget is, add 25%, as you'll be taking some unexpected town/motel stops due to bad weather in the first 3 months of your trip.
Best of luck, maybe we'll see you in Hanover when you come thru.
yes I remember my other thread but wasnt getting many replies so I thought I would try again. Jack thank you so much for all your info.I know you have extinsive knowledge of the trail and all of your advice I will gladly take to heart. I want to start october 9th and head south.I have plenty of layers and good rain gear a 0degree bag, good pad, duel fuel stove.weather radio. I do have a good tent .but shouldnt I have the shelters pretty much to myself at that time of year? was hopeing to leave that weight behind if possible. I am hopeing to finish in mid march. does this sound doable? it would be great to meet you in hanover and get more advice and maybe have a cold one .thx ..pm me with anymore info you think would be useful for me
Alligator
09-05-2006, 15:01
Assuming you start your trip in October:
*You'll have ample time to climb Katahdin, but you probably don't
want to do it after the 15th. In fact, better to do it around the
9th or the 10th.
*It takes most folks 22-27 days to hike Maine
*It takes most folks 12-14 days to hike New Hampshire
...Aren't the above estimates based on the "usual" thruhiking season? And the Vermont ones too?
You would be better off going SOBO IMO, as you have the opportunity to scoot past New England before deep winter. Also, you might be able to solo up Katahdin, rather than needing a winter party.
I've done many winter trips on the southern portion of the AT. If you have some winter experience, you will be fine down south. It is rare that you would need crampons and even rarer for snowshoes. Granted, you'll be out there 24/7, so you may run into some icy/snowy conditions more frequently. But if you have the necessary warm gear, it's really not that tough.
Alligator
09-05-2006, 15:05
...I do have a good tent .but shouldnt I have the shelters pretty much to myself at that time of year? was hopeing to leave that weight behind if possible....That would be foolish.
Jack Tarlin
09-05-2006, 15:12
I think a five month Southbound hike starting in mid-October is pretty ambitious, unless you're in exceptional shape and also, that you get real lucky with weather.
Five months is fast time for ANYONE to thru-hike, never mind someone hiking all winter. Most regular thru-hikes take 24-27 months, never mind winter ones.
There will be mornings when bad weather causes you to get a late start, or will cause you to take extra breaks (usually in shelters) til the weather improves. You'll also have abbreviated days, i.e. you'll get to a place at three PM and you'll know the weather is deteriorating quickly. If the next shelter is nine or ten miles away, you may well stop for the day rather than hiker on. (Remember, it'll be geting dark very early in the day so unless you enjoy night-hiking, your hiking days will end before five). Also, you'll almost certainly spend extra time in towns or the hostels that are still open, and you'll probably take "extra" days ins some places, as well as laying over in places you'd originally planned on skipping. Bad weather might cause to take zero days in shelters or perhaps even your tent. Any or all of these factors will slow you down, never mind the slowing down caused by rain, sleet, or acumulated snow.
For al these reasons, I'd give yourself extra time for your trip. I'd look at six months minimum for a wintertime hike, and in my case, it'd certainly take longer. But then, you presumably have two working knees.
Re. your tent, yeah, you'll be pretty much guaranteed shelter space for the first half of your trip, but who knows....you might run into a group you don't expect, or more likely, you might not make it all the way to a shelter due to injury, horrible weather, etc. There will be places you'll WANT to tent, just because they're pretty. There will be times you might stop hiking in the middle of the day and you'll be nowhere near a shelter. For all these reasons, you'd better plan on carring some sort of shelter ALL the time. (Plus, you'll also sleep warmer in your tent!).
Jack what was the 24-27 months? for what? well I am pretty sure even going really slow in winter I could do it in 7 months
Jack Tarlin
09-05-2006, 15:30
I obviously meant 24-27 WEEKS, not months! Sorry bout that.
And Alligator is correct, which is why I think you should plan on giving yourself some extra time, carry extra food, etc., as I mentioned above.
O ...ok thanks for clearing that up..lol was wondering just who was crawling the AT these days.I kinda thought you meant weeks ..well I will just estimate for 6to7months worse case, so hopefully no later than very early may
mweinstone
09-05-2006, 15:52
you are going to not thruhike the at. this is due to your lack of exspirience and common sence. you will fall to your death if you try due to not knowing anything about high angle ice or how to walk on it. you have no common sence due to being insane. you will never even go to katadhin ever in your life due to not wanting to. and not careing and being dumb. you will never go thru hiking in any direction at any time of year on any trail because you are a dreamer and a fool. and once again ,...you will die.love mat.the end.
replie rants welcomed and urged.
Alligator
09-05-2006, 15:59
Consider that you will have less traffic, which has multiple meanings. There will be fewer people on the trail to help you, fewer cars in remote areas to get you to town, and occasionally road closures. For instance, in Jan this year, Skyline drive was closed while we were hiking in the park. Not necessarily a big deal because the rangers were on the lookout, but it could affect resupply. It's probably worse if the road you were counting on was some minor forest road or such.
BTW, other than my concern about the NE hiking times, Jack's other advice was all very good.
mweinstone
09-05-2006, 16:03
if i was doing what you propose,... i would be utilizing all my hard earned lifetime skills in the feild of high altitude winter mountaineering to stay alive warm feed and on track to thru by your enddate. so unless your an exspert at 15000feet and have years in the bush under your belt , i doubt if we have similer talents. and to walk the walk you propose would take each and every lession i ever learned.do you know what to do in each cold wheather emergensy to save your life?are your responses second nature from so much exsperience? have you recently practiced and upgraded your technique?are your navigation skills adiquit? do you posess the calm nature and cool head it requires? are you familiar with meteorology? do you know how to get found,make fire,dig a bolt hole,melt water,keep dry and walk in deep snow?
mweinstone
09-05-2006, 16:08
then i take back my post and welcome you to try. just allow me to bet heavily for or against you when the wagering starts.and if you are doing this,.... actually,.... i might be of use as a source of info. my passion is winter hiking. ive never postholed further than port clinton to the pinnicle. about 6.6 and i doubt if i ever could. snowshoes for sure. not boots.
Alligator
09-05-2006, 16:22
then i take back my post and welcome you to try. just allow me to bet heavily for or against you when the wagering starts.and if you are doing this,.... actually,.... i might be of use as a source of info. my passion is winter hiking. ive never postholed further than port clinton to the pinnicle. about 6.6 and i doubt if i ever could. snowshoes for sure. not boots.My cold advice to you is to quit being an attention whore.
The Solemates
09-05-2006, 16:37
I want to start october 9th and head south.I have plenty of layers and good rain gear a 0degree bag, good pad, duel fuel stove.weather radio.
I would not be comfortable starting in october with a 0 degree bag; I would go for something a little warmer. At least consider a warmer bag when you get further south...You will most definitely have nights well below 0F...and if you are in a shelter rather than a tent, it will feel even colder due to the draft.
My cold advice to you is to quit being an attention whore. am I to assume you directed this comment toward me?
Alligator
09-05-2006, 16:50
am I to assume you directed this comment toward me?No, I quoted mweinstone. That's who it was directed to.
you are going to not thruhike the at. this is due to your lack of exspirience and common sence. you will fall to your death if you try due to not knowing anything about high angle ice or how to walk on it. you have no common sence due to being insane. you will never even go to katadhin ever in your life due to not wanting to. and not careing and being dumb. you will never go thru hiking in any direction at any time of year on any trail because you are a dreamer and a fool. and once again ,...you will die.love mat.the end.
replie rants welcomed and urged. do you have nothing better to do than try to pad your post numbers. you know nothing of me, nothing about me ,nor my expieriance and actually you sound like quite the @sshole.I am constantly amazed by some of your comments and statements that you make to damn near everyone.I respect the fact that you have completed a thru hike but for you to act as the authority on thru hikeing is a joke. if you are half the man you claim. you would either keep your snide comments to yourself or I invite you to meet me on the trail during my thru hike so I can insert my trekking pole in your mouth.BE SURE WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO..
gator ..ok just checking seeing as how mattewski is trying to be a dick. I wasnt sure ..thx for reply
LostInSpace
09-05-2006, 17:55
Terrain-wise, it'll be fairly easy going til you get to Northern Virginia. You'll see some snow, mostly in mid-January to early March, but you'll have long stretches without it.
Be prepared for the unexpected, quirky weather. Although Jack is correct regarding the area north of Harper's Ferry, the President's Day weekend storm of February 16-17, 2003, dumped 2-3 feet on snow in this area with substantial drifting.
Alligator
09-05-2006, 21:12
gator ..ok just checking seeing as how mattewski is trying to be a dick. I wasnt sure ..thx for replyNo problem:) . He hasn't completed a thruhike either.
Assuming you start your trip in October:
*You'll have ample time to climb Katahdin, but you probably don't
want to do it after the 15th. In fact, better to do it around the
9th or the 10th.
*It takes most folks 22-27 days to hike Maine
*It takes most folks 12-14 days to hike New Hampshire
I suspect Maine will be easier for you weather-wise than NH, though there are a few higher-altitude places (Whitecap, the Bigelow Range, esp. Mt. Avery; the Crockers; Sadddleback; etc. that could be interesting).
You will certainly run into cold weather in New Hampshire, and possibly, snow.
You'll be going thru the high peaks of the Presidential Range in mid-November.
Expect it to be winter there.
Keep in mind that by the time you get there, most of the AMC Huts will be closed for the season and you will NOT be able to count on them for meals, shelter, etc.
With adequate clothing and gear, you should be OK. A few ideas: ALWAYS carry something warm and dry to change into at the end of the day; never
let your long underwear get wet during the day (from either sweat or weather) if you're planning on sleeping in it at day's end. You might want to carry an extra set of long johns. Be sure your storm gear is top quality; consider carrying extra socks; bring a good hat, and make sure your gloves are both wind and waterproof. Some kind of wind/rain pant is probably a good idea, even if you don't normally wear these. Pack extra food when you leave towns in Maine and NH; protracted periods of bad weather may cause your mileage to go down, or you might have to shorten your hiking days because of bad weather. This means that certain stretches of Trail might take longer than you'd planned; therefore, you might neeed extra rations. Remember, there will NOT be many other hikers around to help if you run short. Absolutely carry current maps with you in case you need to get off the Trail in a hurry.
Things will get much easier in Vermont, tho in a few places (Killington or Stratton) it could get interesting. Vermont generally takes 10-12 days to traverse.
Once you get into southern new England (Mass. and Conn.) it'll get MUCH easier. It can be cold and wet there in late November/early December, but it'd be rare to see much snow.
Trerrain-wise, it'll be fairly easy going til you get to Northern Virginia. You'll see some snow, mostly in mid-January to early March, but you'll have long stretches without it.
Good news is that from mid October on, you'll ALWAYS have shelter space if you need it, at least til you get down South. Make sure you bring along plenty to read!
Things will get interesting again in the Mount Rogers area of Southwestern Virginia, and then again in the Roan Highlands, but it'll almost be spring by the time you get there; you should be fine.
The Smokies will be fine by the time you get there; assuming your trip takes seven months or so, it'll actually be pretty warm by the time you get there, so you probably won't encounter any of the cold weather problems most Northbounders do.
North Carolina and Georgia in April and May are wonderful, it's a great time to be down there.
A few last things to remember: When you get down South, don't ditch your winter gear too soon (it can snow on Mt. Rogers well into May); remember that a lot of hostels will be closed from October to February; at some point, most likely somewhere in SW Virginia or Tennessee, you'll start encountering Northbounders so don't take for granted you'll have shelter space; and lastly, whatever your budget is, add 25%, as you'll be taking some unexpected town/motel stops due to bad weather in the first 3 months of your trip.
Best of luck, maybe we'll see you in Hanover when you come thru.
Every thing Jack said is on the mark. I would only add that the most dangerous weather conditions that you are likely to encounter are freezing rains, which can drain the energy out of a hiker. One can survive minus zero easily -- even minus 30 -- providing you have adequate gear and are dry. It's almost impossible, however, to survive minus zero conditions while wet.
Don't be tempted to hike in freezing rains, at least when the nearest town is more than a few miles away.
Weary
fiddlehead
09-05-2006, 21:51
One more thing, when we did our SOBO starting in Oct, we followed deer season south. We hiked thru deer season in every state except NC and GA. We didn't have a problem with hunters although we wore orange and tied some orange ribbons to the back of our packs. Just so you know it will be upon you but it's not so dangerous. Beware of the 1st sat. in each state. That's when hordes of them are out there. Might be a good time to stay in town if that's the case. The hunters will ask you if you have seen any deer, we used to tell them, yes, back up the trail about 5 miles. Rarely would they go that far. anyway, feel free to ask away. Sure you must be prepared for snow. and ice. you will have an amazing experience that most hikers never have. I trust you are ready for ccccccccccooooooooolllllllddddddd! good luck
Tramper Al
09-05-2006, 22:41
Hi DonJuan,
I've hiked the AT through the New England states, but more importantly I have hiked all of the high summits of New England in calendar winter, including Katahdin, the Presidentials, etc.
I am really only considering what it will typically take to get through Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.
I'll agree with others that Jack's long list of advice is good, but I'd say it doesn't go nearly far enough. Minimal gear like the second pair of longjohns, spare socks, and rain pants? Not optional, not even close. You need to have dry clothes in reserve at all times, including mitts, hats, full face protection, etc. You mention a 0 degree bag, which I think might be adequate if it is synthetic, if you get through New England fast, and you are lucky.
It concerns me that you would consider even for a moment trying something like this without carrying a tent or other shelter. It makes me wonder how prepared you are for this, generally. I'm not being critical here, I'm genuinely concerned. What would be your plan, without shelter, when you get wet and then you get hurt? You would seriously consider risking your life to leave a 2-3 lb tent at home? I would not think so. You need to ask yourself if, due to injury, you can stop in any place at anytime and stay warm and survive (unitl rescue?) using only what is in your pack.
Now, if you don't get lucky, you will have to deal with some "deep" snow at some point. By deep, I mean enough to begin to posthole in, and on a little travelled route, that can be not much snow at all. Do you intend to carry snowshoes? In some cases the AT is part of a popular approach for peakbaggers in November and December, and you may get lucky with a consolidated base in some places. Other trail section are very infrequently used all winter long. Same thing with ice on some steep trails and above treeline. Will you have your crampons?
I am considered to be quite good at following white blazes in winter, but I'm telling you sometimes it can be tough. In open woods, especially when the snow depths gets up near blaze height, it can be a real challenge. i have encountered somewhat challenging trail finding on winter hikes on the AT in Baxter, on the Bigelows, between Sugarloaf and Spaulding, the Wildcats, and on Killington, just to name a few. You will eventually find your way, but you may lose a lot of time and energy in the process.
That's about all I can think of now. It's quite doable, no question, but a trek like this will hold plenty of challenge for you. And if you run into conditions that you aren't ready for, the most likely outcome is that you'll simply have to get off the trail as soon as possible. The thing about the tent just makes me wonder if you have any idea what you are suggesting.
fiddlehead
09-05-2006, 23:00
It does worry me a little bit that he's from Mississippi. Here's a pix from the whites in Nov. 2001
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=7082&catid=member&imageuser=5137
For those contemplating a late season traverse of the White Mountains, both Madison and Lakes hut close in mid September (16th this year). That means that there are no shelters or other accomodations on the AT between Mizpah and Osgood tent platforms. It includes the entire Presidential ridge above treeline.
Most other AMC huts close by mid October or the end of October. After that, 3 huts remain open on a caretaker basis: Carter Notch, Zealand Falls, and Lonesome Lake.
Tramper Al
09-06-2006, 10:00
For those contemplating a late season traverse of the White Mountains, both Madison and Lakes hut close in mid September (16th this year). That means that there are no shelters or other accomodations on the AT between Mizpah and Osgood tent platforms. It includes the entire Presidential ridge above treeline.
Most other AMC huts close by mid October or the end of October. After that, 3 huts remain open on a caretaker basis: Carter Notch, Zealand Falls, and Lonesome Lake.
You should remind these late season hikers, though, that the RMC facilities in the Northern Presidentials are open year 'round. And when does the observatory close? It is also useful for hot soup and a water refill, though it is a seasonal facility.
Don't forget The Kennebec River crossing in Maine. A difficult ford under best of conditions and the ferry service will no longer be operating on a scheduled basis. If you attempt to ford in late OCT your balls may wind up in your throat due to cold water temps, Just a reminder.I personally would not ford this river under any circumstances. you may be able to schedule an off-season crossing with Steve the ferryman
Hammerhead
09-06-2006, 10:35
Hey man, I don't know you from Adam but I admire the hell out of you. If this is something you want to do, and more importantly, something you believe you can do then I say go for it! I haven't thru hiked yet, so the only advice I can really offer is to trust your gut. You'll be fine. Are you going to be posting a journal during your hike?
Tramper Al
09-06-2006, 11:00
Hey man, . . . I haven't thru hiked yet, so the only advice I can really offer is to trust your gut. You'll be fine.
Hey man, what kind of bad advice is this?
Most people do get home just fine, but in a typical winter one or more people die on or near the AT in Maine or New Hampshire.
Given the choice between careful research, preparation, experience and the proper gear, vs. trusting a gut and advice from someone who has never even been there in any season, I know what I would do.
Hammerhead
09-06-2006, 11:10
Hey man, what kind of bad advice is this?
Most people do get home just fine, but in a typical winter one or more people die on or near the AT in Maine or New Hampshire.
Given the choice between careful research, preparation, experience and the proper gear, vs. trusting a gut and advice from someone who has never even been there in any season, I know what I would do.
But I wasn't talking you to A-hole. And like DonJuan said in an earlier post...KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING TO. And just to spell it out for you: When I said 'Trust your gut', I said it because he's stated that he has experience. It's not like I said this to a 15yr old going out on his first hike.
hey guys..well to respond to a few of these recent post. 1st yes I believe I can do this..if not I wouldnt even attempt such a task.. the cold really doesnt bother me much..I have plenty of mountain winter experiance from military training and I am trying to devise the best clothing system.. lots of light layers with no heavy layers..so I can regulate my body temp.good insulated boots..small tight, low profile tent. a heavy 0' synthetic bag an inward reflective emergency bivy bag"top quality" a duel fuel stove, meens to start an effective fire if need be.. good quality rain gear..extra warm set of sleeping gear with always dry fleece socks..in a pinch I could have up to 6 layers if needed..I will be carrying a weather radio. just to stay informed to fast developing storms.I am in pretty good shape..not like when I was 19 or 20..lol ..but still able to push when needed..yes I will be keeping a journal on trail journals..with periodic updates comeing from home. and if anyone can tell me how to reach the gentleman that runs the ferry I will beg him to come get me..lol..any other advice would be great..thx
Alligator
09-06-2006, 12:12
... and if anyone can tell me how to reach the gentleman that runs the ferry I will beg him to come get me..lol..any other advice would be great..thxYou're in luck. Ferryman here on WB.
The Old Fhart
09-06-2006, 12:37
Tramper Al-"And when does the observatory close? It is also useful for hot soup and a water refill, though it is a seasonal facility."I believe you mean the Mount Washington State Park that has the restaurant on the summit. The Mount Washington Weather Observatory is a research facility and not open to the general public anytime although members may visit in the summer.
All facilities on the summit are closed to the public starting around the start of October (weather dependent) and having worked for the Observatory for 4 winters I can tell you that it has to be an emergency, not just an inconvenience, before anyone gets inside in winter. Grey Knob, about 1 mile off the trail downhill near Mount Adams, is winterized and has a caretaker. It is an excellent place to stay in winter.
Tramper Al
09-06-2006, 12:45
I believe you mean the Mount Washington State Park that has the restaurant on the summit. The Mount Washington Weather Observatory is a research facility and not open to the general public anytime although members may visit in the summer.
All facilities on the summit are closed to the public starting around the start of October (weather dependent)
Yes, O.F., I did mean the public areas for Don, and most particularly the restaurant and running water. As I suspected, he will be there too late in the season to take advantage. Thanks.
Same thing with ice on some steep trails and above treeline. Will you have your crampons?
I submit this as gear you really need to look at to take. I do sections like Bake Oven Knob and Port Clinton in PA in the winter and almost always there are ice covered rocks all over the trail, sometimes even the ice makes up the trail. Thats just in PA. I am sure if there isnt heavy snow to battle your going to get loads of ice in places.
Glad to hear you have military background, it's likely to come in handy with extreme conditions survival training etc.. Being a vet also, gives me confidence in your ability to survive some hairy conditions that you will likely encounter , icing being the most challenging. You should be able to PM the ferryman here at WB.
yea woodsy, unfourtunate then..but experiance now..lol..I did a 21 day winter phase training that was ..shall we say "eye opening":eek: .with alot less gear than I will have..so I am confident
10-4, know what ya mean....survival training...freeze your butt and feet and survive it all, miserably.!