Arc Alpinist

[Chalumeau]

Tried out my new Nunatak Arc Alpinist quilt this last weekend on a seciton hike and LOVED it. I was concerned that the quilt, which is rated down to 20 degrees would be too warm for current temps (lows in the mid/upper 50s) but discovered that it is much easier to stay cool with a quilt than a bag - you can allow ventilation by not tucking in the edges and not pulling it all the way up to your chin! I also love the fact that for 2.5" of loft you only have 18oz weight (for the medium). This looks as if it will be a really versatile piece of equipment. :)

[MedicineMan]

I'm sure Tom H. is pleased too :)
when you think back to our forebears-early explorers and early trappers etc. seems like they all had quilts....i wonder when sleeping bags became the norm? maybe with high artic or himalayan exploration? and it seems like Ray Jardine finally got the point across that the insulation in a sleeping bag on the bottom gets smushed flat and isnt insulation anymore-so why carry it? we all carry something for bottom insulation, whether it be a sleeping pad or underquilt, so why do sleeping bags still dominate when at least 1/3 of their weight is useless?

[Just Jeff]

I tried to explain that to the owner of Wiggys and he told me there's a tension between what people want to do with a sleeping bag and reality. I told him I have a 20 oz quilt that keeps me as warm as his 40 oz bag (which I also have)...he went on with his original points and pretty much ignored me. Maybe the point has gotten across to some, but it's still not there for a lot of the influential people in the industry. How many non-cottage companies make quilts?

He did have lots of other good things to say, though...I learned a lot from him.

[sirbingo]

What do Y'all use as insulation from the cold ground? Just a plain ol' pad?

[Just Jeff]

On the ground, yes. In the hammock I usually have an underquilt.

[Creek Dancer]

I'm sure Tom H. is pleased too :)
when you think back to our forebears-early explorers and early trappers etc. seems like they all had quilts....i wonder when sleeping bags became the norm? maybe with high artic or himalayan exploration? and it seems like Ray Jardine finally got the point across that the insulation in a sleeping bag on the bottom gets smushed flat and isnt insulation anymore-so why carry it? we all carry something for bottom insulation, whether it be a sleeping pad or underquilt, so why do sleeping bags still dominate when at least 1/3 of their weight is useless?

Bottom insulation is only useless if you sleep on your back.

[Just Jeff]

Yeah - or unless you roll over inside the quilt just like you do in a blanket at home. Unless you use a sleeping bag at home.

[vaporjourney]

I still haven't decided on a winter bag/quilt, and this may be a consideration for me. I'm curious as to how this quilt can be rated all the way down to 20 degrees with only 2.5" of loft, when the WM bags have around 5" of loft? I have a JRB summer quilt, the 'shenandoah', which i find isn't good to 40 degrees like it's rated. I find I"m cold in 55 degree weather, which frustrated me. Maybe when i stay absolutely still, but still, the drafts kind of suck. this quilt looks better because it is wide enough to really tuck under a sleeping pad.

Which sleeping pad have you used with this quilt? I've got a POE insulmat, that is 2.5" high when fully inflated. I wonder if this quilt would still wrap around me, and then tuck under the pad if needed?

[Chalumeau]

...because I am in a hammock with a JRB Nest underquilt. I have not, as yet, tried this quilt in the low temperatures it is rated to (so you might like to get feedback from other more experienced cold-weather-hikers on this forum; however, I can say that I slept under a borrowed Nunatak Arc Edge at 40 degrees - this bag is rated to 40 degrees, and I was quite warm enough. The Arc Alpinist does have plenty of fabric to tuck under you to avoid drafts and a cinch cord at the top to keep drafts our from around your neck.

There was a recent thread discussing warm and cold sleepers - something to keep in mind when looking at sleeping bag ratings.

[Fiddleback]

I still haven't decided on a winter bag/quilt, and this may be a consideration for me. I'm curious as to how this quilt can be rated all the way down to 20 degrees with only 2.5" of loft, when the WM bags have around 5" of loft?

Is that 5" of top loft? Or is it 5" total loft, i.e., 2½ top, 2½ bottom?

FB

[vaporjourney]

fiddleback: i'm not sure if that is 2.5 at the feet, and 2.5 up top, or 5" all around. it just says that loft if 5". very good question.

are there any other alternatives to this Arc Alpinist with full featured quilts that are made for winter use? I really like this quilt design since it is so large and could easily be tucked under the body, unlike most others. I also don't want to make one. Spending nearly $400 for a large bag is a little out of my budget. I was already a tad hesitant to spend over $300 for a Western Mountaineering bag, but this could have crossed the line. Not sure, but I'd like to see if there are more options. The quilt looks great though.

[FanaticFringer]

Speer Top Blanket
1oz. overfill
18 ounces
$224.00

[Just Jeff]

Vaporjourney, what is your goal with the quilt? Can't tell from the post if you already have that WM bag and are trying to cut weight, or if you're just looking for a winter setup and haven't purchased anything yet.

If you already have the JRB quilt, you might consider buying a 20F bag or quilt, then using the JRB quilt as a top blanket. More versatility at the expense of some weight (basically you have three setups), but it'll handle condensation better since the top blanket will be much easier to dry than a thicker quilt or bag.

But if your goal is to cut weight, that's obviously not the best answer. Just depends on what you're looking for.

Re: the loft, I bet fiddleback was right - bags usually give total loft and quilts only give top loft. So unless that bag has a differential fill (e.g. 3" on top and 2" on bottom), it's probably equivalent to a 2.5" thick quilt...except for the draft control and hood, obviously.

[vaporjourney]

just jeff: i am looking for a winter setup, and haven't purchased a WM bag just yet. I currently have a kelty down bag that is rated to 25, but I wouldnt go below 40 with it really. I have pretty much decided on all of the equipment I need for upcoming thru hike in april, except for the most expensive piece of equipment, the sleeping setup for winter.

I should also say that I am a ground sleeper, and will be sleeping under a tarptent rainbow.

fanatic fringer: there isn't a temp rating on the website. Is 2" of fill enough loft for winter?

[illusionistG]

Vapor....check out Ray-Way. They have a design for a ground sleeping system using a quilt (homemade). Might want to think about combining a 30-35F bag as an overbag and the quilt as an insulating layer providing you adjustable winter warmth layering, and once the warmer season arrives you can strip one of the layers, send home or put in your bounce box, and retrieve it again later when the cooler season comes back. This might mitigate having to purchase two (2) sleeping bags for the seasonal changes.
http://www.ray-way.com

[MAD777]

I sleep on the ground and I'm a side sleeper.

I have a Western Mountaineering MegaLight (30 degree) bag for temps ranging from freezing to the 50's. It has full zip, so I use it as a quilt in the 50's.

I also made a synthetic quilt (somewhat similar to Ray-Way) with about 1" of loft that I use for summer and, with a jacket, good to 60.

For well below freezing, I simply use both. I sleep in the bag and use the quilt as a top cover above the bag. This way, I figure, most of the time, the dew point is going to occur in the synthetic insulation and not in the down bag!

Of course, warmth has a lot to do with the sleeping pad, too. I use a Insulmat Max-thermo 3/4 in summer and add a CCF 3/8" to that in winter. I always use a small CCF pad under my feet which doulbles as a sit pad.

[FanaticFringer]

just jeff: i am looking for a winter setup, and haven't purchased a WM bag just yet. I currently have a kelty down bag that is rated to 25, but I wouldnt go below 40 with it really. I have pretty much decided on all of the equipment I need for upcoming thru hike in april, except for the most expensive piece of equipment, the sleeping setup for winter.

I should also say that I am a ground sleeper, and will be sleeping under a tarptent rainbow.

fanatic fringer: there isn't a temp rating on the website. Is 2" of fill enough loft for winter?

Speer Top Blanket is 2.8" loft rated 25 degrees. Might want to check dimensions as some here have stated it is a little small but would work out fine for me at 5'7 155lbs. I love the low weight.

[vaporjourney]

Chalumeau: how easy is the adjustment of the straps? It looks like the once near the bottom of the body would be awkward to adust. I'm mainly asking because I'd like to see how convenient (or inconvenient) it is to loosen enough to get out of the bag, and then take a leak. After spending 3 nights in the smokies, I've decided I dont want a normal sleeping bag. I toss and turn at night and really get sick of readjusting the bag. Plus this will save so much weight. Just not sure about some of these essentials that could be a hassle with the bag.

[Just Jeff]

www.wiggys.com (http://www.wiggys.com) - sleeping bag manufacturer. Not lightweight, but it's quality bombproof gear and he sells a lot to the military.

[Chalumeau]

Chalumeau: how easy is the adjustment of the straps? It looks like the once near the bottom of the body would be awkward to adust. I'm mainly asking because I'd like to see how convenient (or inconvenient) it is to loosen enough to get out of the bag, and then take a leak. After spending 3 nights in the smokies, I've decided I dont want a normal sleeping bag. I toss and turn at night and really get sick of readjusting the bag. Plus this will save so much weight. Just not sure about some of these essentials that could be a hassle with the bag.

I don't use the straps (partly because I am in a hammock) but they have quick release plastic buckles that are very easy to open and close and I do not think you would have any problem getting in and out at night.

[GlazeDog]

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the WM Ultralite is warmer for an extra 4 ounces. If you compare the Epic shell on the Arc Alpinist--that's the shell most similar to the Pertex Quantum on the Wm bag as a performing shell. Also the WM bag has a full draft collar and hood. The Nunatak product isn't 100% a TOP ONLY product--some of it does wrap under (see the foot box for example, and the little that tucks under as well to create a seal). On the WM bag more of the fill is on top I believe. The WM has 14 oz. fill vs. 11 oz. on the Arc Alp. Also the WM regular fits a 6'0" person while the Arc Alp fit only a 5'10" person. This extra 2" may be important. This isn't an easy comparison.

Good Luck--
GlazeDog

[MedicineMan]

well the AA is available for people up to 6'6" isnt it? and if you ask Tom Halpin will overfill as much as you want....
Correct about the sealing effect of the sides...when completely splayed open the AA is very wide, this wide/side is perfection for tucking in while in the hammock and as mentioned getting out is an instantaneous process....still cant believe that Nunatak doesnt mention their quilts as highly advantageous in hammocks---doesnt see the market or doesnt need it...
if you have an alpinist quilt and hammock completely you will eventually remove the straps, they are just not needed in the hammock environment...

[GlazeDog]

The WM is also available up to 6'6"

Good point about advantages for hammock campers.

GlazeDog