View Full Version : Siliconing rip stop, need advice
bluenotebooks
09-10-2006, 00:24
I bought some ripstop nylon at Walmart off the dollar-a-yard rack. Am in the process of making a tarp. Bought some silicone caulk and some paint thinner to water-proof the material. I am having trouble getting the caulk and thinner to mix though. The caulk just kind of floats in the liquid in globs, no matter how much i try to mix it. It is 100% silicone caulking. If left for a period of time will the caulk dissolve in the paint thinner? And another question, you guys that have tried this, were you successful in water-proofing your nylon?
To thin down the silicone. I'm not sure, I haven't done it, but that's the first thing that comes to mind (what's left of it :o).
YIPPEE! I get to be the first to welcome you to WhiteBlaze! :welcome
I hate to break it to you, but I really don't see this working. There's just no way to get that even of a layer on the nylon that it doesn't weigh a ton and not miss some spots. The good news is there's still plenty of things you can do with plain 1.1oz ripstop. Just out of curiosity, what kind/size tarp are you planning on making with it?
I'm pretty sure the recipe for seam seal is 1 pt clear silicone caulk to 1 pt Mineral Spirits, not paint thinner. Could be wrong though. I'm sure if you search here or google for something like seam seal silicone caulk you'll find it. :D speedy
Skidsteer
09-10-2006, 06:16
For those interested, here is the recipe (http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Silnylon1/).
Amigi'sLastStand
09-10-2006, 07:45
Ok, ok, ok. One of the few ppl here at WB that has done this, is here, and it's me!;)
Paint thinner is mineral spirits.
Ok, Mr. or Mrs. Notebooks ( Welcome to WB, BTW ), here we go...
Skids got you the recipe above, so dont need to rehash that.
The mineral spirits you MUST use is the Low Odor version. The other stuff stinks to high ( ehhm ) heavens.
The original recipe I got was one part caulk to three parts MS. I increased that over the course of mixing to something like 1 part silicone to 6 parts MS. So, start off with a lower ratio, then increase as you mix.
What the problem for you may be is that this isnt like cocoa powder in hot milk, it takes a looooong time to mix and a steady heavy stirring. It will mix, it just take time. Get it to a consistency of regular house paint
I tried rolling the mix on to my tarp, but that was a disaster. Not saying it cant be done, but I just ended up using a brush. Speedy alluded to difficulty in getting an even coat. Right! Make sure you apply a thin coat, stretch out the material with your free hand and a knee and brush it in, not just a surface swash as if painting.
It is hard work, 3 hammers out of 5, but can be done, because I've done it! The material is heavier than regular sil, but no doubt waterproof and non-breathing.
Good luck, an' feel free to PM me if you need help.
Chuck
hikerjohnd
09-10-2006, 09:09
it takes a looooong time to mix and a steady heavy stirring. It will mix, it just take time.
Ditto - if you are patient and stir long enough, it will mix nicely. I always use the 2 parts MS to 1 part silicone and take time stirring - the benefit seems to be a shorter drying time at the other end (as I understand it, as the solution sits on your tent, the MS evaporates, leaving the silicone behind to dry and become more solid (I hate to use the word solid here, but you get the idea) and less MS means less to evaporate, hence shorter dry time).
Oh and :welcome You have fallen into an addictive bunch - but we try!
Stickbow
09-10-2006, 12:08
Less mineral spirits, white gas, or whatever solvent also means it's a thicker mix. I played around with this to waterproof some dry bags for my kayaks. That got me on a silicone coating kick, so I did a small ground cloth (heavy nylon), three jackets and a pair of what were supposed to be "rain pants" that weren't water resistant, much less water proof.
Thinner mix = lighter coating, more like the commercial product. I have to admit, after the 2:1 for the bags (and 1:2 solvent to silicone for seams), I started thinning without measuring. The 2:1 was way heavy on the pants and jackets, so I kept thinning 'til I could get a coat I thought was light enough.
My GAP anorak is now a very nicely waterproofed and light jacket :-)
Stickbow
09-10-2006, 12:14
Also:
Mixing is slow. Mechanical mixing (vs. shaking) works much better. Don't just stir either, smoosh the silicone around -- think a butter churn (analogy stolen from Ed Speer, I think - he has a good section on silicone application in Hammock Camping. http://www.hammockcamping.com/
For what it's worth, I think white gas dissolves the GE II caulk I used a lot faster. However, I'm nervous using white gas as a solvent, even outside in a carefully controlled, well ventilated area. I've just always been taught to use the least flammable solvent I could find :)
Amigi'sLastStand
09-10-2006, 13:00
WHOA. Hold up.
Any petroleum based solvent will thin silicone. MS is used because it has a lower flash point, is much less toxic than WG or Xylene, and leaves by far the least residue. Anyone is free to disagree, the lately going theme here, but I worked with all of these chemicals, and sold them for five years as a manager at a hardware store. Use MS, and put in the extra work. Much safer.
I worked with all of these chemicals, and sold them for five years as a manager at a hardware store.
Well, that seems to explain a lot. Always thought you knew a suprising amount about chemicals and hardware type stuff.
So does this come out anywhere near as even as bought silnylon? :D speedy
Amigi'sLastStand
09-10-2006, 23:47
Well, that seems to explain a lot. Always thought you knew a suprising amount about chemicals and hardware type stuff.
So does this come out anywhere near as even as bought silnylon? :D speedy
Even, almost. As light, no way. I have never weighed it, but I'd say twice the weight. It is still very light to me. It does have a nice homemade look to it. I like that.
Each of us has mentioned a slightly different ratio we like. Whatever works for you. I prefer a thinner mix. It does take longer to dry, but I think the coat comes out more even, and penetrated into the fabric, as opposed to a surface application.
Yeah, first Home Depot, back in the good ol days when the stock doubled every year. Then at Lowes as a kitchen designer. Now I am interviewing for a store manager position with 84 Lumber. Wish me luck.
LostInSpace
09-11-2006, 00:07
I've used Coleman fuel, and it works just fine. I spread the mixture with a disposable foam paint brush.
Material Safety Data Sheet can be found here: http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds/lantern.pdf
I bought some ripstop nylon at Walmart off the dollar-a-yard rack. Am in the process of making a tarp. Bought some silicone caulk and some paint thinner to water-proof the material. I am having trouble getting the caulk and thinner to mix though. The caulk just kind of floats in the liquid in globs, no matter how much i try to mix it. It is 100% silicone caulking. If left for a period of time will the caulk dissolve in the paint thinner? And another question, you guys that have tried this, were you successful in water-proofing your nylon?
1) keep stirring... it will eventually dissolve.
2) yes, it worked very well. i painted it on with a 3"-4" foam brush.
Tinkergnome
09-11-2006, 23:09
Ok, ok, ok. One of the few ppl here at WB that has done this, is here, and it's me!;)
Paint thinner is mineral spirits.
Ok, Mr. or Mrs. Notebooks ( Welcome to WB, BTW ), here we go...
Skids got you the recipe above, so dont need to rehash that.
The mineral spirits you MUST use is the Low Odor version. The other stuff stinks to high ( ehhm ) heavens.
The original recipe I got was one part caulk to three parts MS. I increased that over the course of mixing to something like 1 part silicone to 6 parts MS. So, start off with a lower ratio, then increase as you mix.
What the problem for you may be is that this isnt like cocoa powder in hot milk, it takes a looooong time to mix and a steady heavy stirring. It will mix, it just take time. Get it to a consistency of regular house paint
I tried rolling the mix on to my tarp, but that was a disaster. Not saying it cant be done, but I just ended up using a brush. Speedy alluded to difficulty in getting an even coat. Right! Make sure you apply a thin coat, stretch out the material with your free hand and a knee and brush it in, not just a surface swash as if painting.
It is hard work, 3 hammers out of 5, but can be done, because I've done it! The material is heavier than regular sil, but no doubt waterproof and non-breathing.
Good luck, an' feel free to PM me if you need help.
Chuck
Just a thought but do you think this could be thined enuff to spray? would make things a bit faster and it would coat more even
Use small amounts of thinner at first.Volume Ratio:1 ounce silicone to 1/2 ounce thinner. Let the thinner get friendly with silicone a little at a time:)
To add color to your silicone use powdered aluminum or copper, or fine glitter available in craft or art stores. Put powder in cup add small amount of thinner, mix/stir to make slurry. Add more thinner, stir, then add to thinned silicone, stir/mix/blend. It works, I did it, painted galvanized outdoor electrical boxes.
When mixing hot chocolate put mix in cup add enough water to make a slurry then finish filling cup, works for me.