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MOWGLI
09-13-2006, 08:35
I've been gone for 4 days - off helping to build the Mountains to Sea Trail in Western Carolina. As a long time contributor here at WB - I have some perspective on the way that this discussion board waxes & wanes. We are approaching a period where the 2007 hopeful hikers will flock here in droves - filled with questions, anxiety and anticipation.

That brings me to my point. It seems as if the level of rancor displayed here on Whiteblaze has recently been ratcheted up a few notches. What is disturbing, is that it is mostly the folks who have already hiked the trail. Much of it is in the political forums - and it has taken a nasty turn here & there.

I'd like to suggest that we take a "time out" and try to make this discussion board resemble the trail a bit better. As anyone who has hiked the trail can attest - there is the "real" Appalachian Trail and the "cyber" Appalachian Trail - and the two often do not resemble one another.

Be kind to one another - and set an example for the newbie. Now... go play nice. :sun

Crazy Larry #1
09-13-2006, 08:40
I feel spanked.......................

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 08:41
A while ago I said the exact same thing in a thread entitled "Civility" and was attacked from all sides for doing so.
I no longer subscribe to the political and non-AT threads at all. I lost my cool once on one thread and regret that, but there are longtime contributors and cant-ever-be-wrong-my-way-is-the-only-way thruhikers who seem to thrive on being asinine and as disagreeable as possilbe.

I support your effort Mowgli, for the good it'll do ya.
Chuck

wilconow
09-13-2006, 08:55
I like to click on 'new posts' from the home page to get a nice overview of all the theads. lately, it seems like there's a plethora of political threads. personally, if i wanted to participate or observe in political threads, i wouldn't go to an AT forum. i dont really see the need for the political section. i realize that some people will always want to argue about that stuff, but I don't see why it would be encouraged anywhere on this site.


edit -
Maybe the Non-AT forum could use a big sticky. This is the Non-AT forum, it has the Politics Forum in it. If you subscribed to it, you will see Political Discussions. These threads will appear when you look for new posts.


Thanks for posting this. I forgotten that I subscribed to this, so I unsubbed. *poof* it's gone.

Creek Dancer
09-13-2006, 09:03
What bothers me is that when a new person comes on board and asks a question, they are sometimes told to search the forum for their answers. Sure, they can find their answers that way, but posting a question here might a first attempt for a new person to get connected to the other users. Not answering their questions is kind of a turn off. Just my two cents.

Overall, I really like WB and I think all of you are great. I look forward to maybe hiking with you some day.

hopefulhiker
09-13-2006, 09:04
MOWGLI16, I am interested in the Mountain to the Sea trail, hiking it, and volunteering on it.. I know this is an AT forum but could you post some information about it..
Also I confess I am one of the posters to the political site and I realize that it can get a little routy in there... But when you think about it this forum is valuable because people of diverse views can express an opinion. It is a true meeting place.. Also I wasn't always this political.. I feel like it is my patriotic duty to speak out.. Plus I contribute advice on the other forums too.. Please dont take the forum away!

Cuffs
09-13-2006, 09:07
Im with you all! I do the 'new post" thing too, and totally avoid all that political stuff. This IS a hiking forum after all, and thats why I joined...

Now, I do think some type of "political" forum should remain, but it shoud be for placing trail issues that come up at local, state and federal levels. (ie: a city voting to allow 500 homes to be built along a corridor...) Anything that calls for action from those who want to help and protect our precious outdoors, needs a place to be posted so that others can be aware.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 09:12
A while ago I said the exact same thing in a thread entitled "Civility" and was attacked from all sides for doing so.
I no longer subscribe to the political and non-AT threads at all. I lost my cool once on one thread and regret that, but there are longtime contributors and cant-ever-be-wrong-my-way-is-the-only-way thruhikers who seem to thrive on being asinine and as disagreeable as possilbe.

I support your effort Mowgli, for the good it'll do ya.
ChuckHey Amigi, can I get a $20 DYI pepsi can stove:) ?

Wilconow, people often mention that they don't like the political threads. You can unsubscribe from those, it's the Non-AT Forum. New members actually have to sign up for those forums.

I was gone the whole weekend too;) .

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 09:15
What bothers me is that when a new person comes on board and asks a question, they are sometimes told to search the forum for their answers. Sure, they can find their answers that way, but posting a question here might a first attempt for a new person to get connected to the other users. Not answering their questions is kind of a turn off. Just my two cents.

Overall, I really like WB and I think all of you are great. I look forward to maybe hiking with you some day.
Guilty.
The reason people will say to search, is that the topic has probably been hashed out ad nauseum three times before.

MOWGLI
09-13-2006, 09:16
MOWGLI16, I am interested in the Mountain to the Sea trail, hiking it, and volunteering on it.. I know this is an AT forum but could you post some information about it..



Hopefulhiker, check for a PM regarding the Mountains to Sea Trail (http://www.ncmst.org/aboutthemst.htm).


Please dont take the (political) forum away!

I certainly wasn't suggesting that. Although thankfuly - from my experiences - there is less political talk on the trail than there is on WB.

Footslogger
09-13-2006, 09:29
Good topic. There are definite "cycles" regarding the types of posts here at WB, having a lot to do with the timing in terms of the hiking season.

Towards the end of each year and through Jan/Feb the majority of posts are about planning and executing a hike. As hikers depart there are some "where are they" type posts but in general the posts seem to digress somewhat.

'Slogger

Creek Dancer
09-13-2006, 09:31
Guilty.
The reason people will say to search, is that the topic has probably been hashed out ad nauseum three times before.

I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.

Footslogger
09-13-2006, 09:35
I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.
=======================================

Probably so ...and maybe it's the way in which we all suggest to them that they employ the search first. When a new member/guest hits WB for the first time I'd guess that their initial inclination is not to spend a lot of time exploring the site. They browse the current posts, survey the list of threads, scan some pics and then ask their questions.

'Slogger

MOWGLI
09-13-2006, 09:37
I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.

When the newcomer asks a question here - they are often looking for a little personal interaction - in addition to their answer. After all, this is supposed to be a "community."

I imagine there are lots of lurkers who are content to search the archives. It doesn't hurt however to answer a question that's been asked 10 times. Unless of course it relates to guns, dogs, or cell phones. :eek:

Footslogger
09-13-2006, 09:39
Unless of course it relates to guns, dogs, or cell phones. :eek:
=====================================

For short and more colorful discussion of those topics they might be better referred to Trailplace.com

'Slogger

Alligator
09-13-2006, 09:43
I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.Sometimes I tell people to search, usually because the first time or two that a specific question comes up, the most information and discussion occurs. So telling someone to search it is IMO the best advice, particularly when I know that the thread was well covered. Sometimes the questions asked are so specific that if a newbie wants information, they would have to wait a long time to get an answer. The information could however, be present elsewhere.

A good example of the thinking vs. feeling function under Meyers Briggs.
Alligator-They asked the question because they wanted information.
Mowgli-They asked the question in order to interact with the community.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 09:45
Just a couple of thoughts from someone that only gets here occasionally now because Baghdad power system is having issues.

From scanning the majority of content that is available to the average user (not one that has joined the non-AT forum) most of the content is on the money. The only issue I see there is when some people take up old battles on those other threads, not wanting to name any names directly, but a couple of multiple time thru-hikers and add to that a couple of old time posters who regularly argue with one of those multi-trip thru-hikers. I wish those people would stop it because no one else even knows what they are arguing about anymore.

The site does have a place to post about political topics involving the trail: Trail Issues, Concerns, and History. So I don't think the non-AT political section needs to change to that, it is already covered.

On to the off-topic forum where most of the rancor happens. If old-timers remember we once had that sort of discussion in most all sections of the board. Discussions of filters could somehow become a discussion of left vs right politics. Discussions of dogs on the trail could become bitter fights with death threats. People that had no other outlet for this sort of post would put topics on the general forum about upcoming elections and such. Admins spent all their time trying to figure out how to clean up these threads when they went way way off and the big concern of all members was what this sort of bickering would look like to the average new hiker that came here to find out about filters, not what Rocks 'N Roots thought of Baltimore Jack's parentage.

The solution was to give people a forum where the content would not make search engines and would not show up to the average user unless they chose to go there. The off topics forum was that place. Later even "worse" stuff was put in the thick-skinned forum because even some people were uncomfortable with what was going on in AT discussions that were on sensitive subjects.

But back to the AT political forum where I see most of the action - it is the same 20 or so posters there, so that is who needs to think about what they sound like. I could be considered one of those. Most of the time these days though I limit my involvement in that forum because I know my emotions are too high for discussing something with someone that has no clue what they are saying is going to spark me.

And finally, as to rancor. All I can say is if you talk to people like you would like them to talk to you (even if they don't) you should be good 99% of the time.

STEVEM
09-13-2006, 10:00
I'm relatively new to WB. I remember a thread about a month ago where a person was asking how to be a Trail Angel. I recall that this thread was started by a new member (her first post I believe).

Result: She was absolutely POUNDED by all the experts here. Had I gotten the same response she did I would have just gone away, (as she likely did).

Amigi, as I recall, congratulated everyone for chasing away this new member.

Before I submit a post, I read it carefully and consider how I would feel if I had asked the question. Just a few words can make a big difference yet say the same thing.

jmaclennan
09-13-2006, 10:09
a few thoughts: when a newbie asks a question, i bet that they've looked for the answer elsewhere and couldn't find it (e.g., the whiteblaze homepage has links to lots of great info right there), so they ask something that isn't specifically covered anywhere else. imo, they should be welcomed as graciously as possible (even if it is to direct them to the answer somewhere else).

ya'll might be interested to know what i discovered when i interviewed over 50prospective thrus on springer this past march ('06). a good number of them mentioned that they didn't like this site because of the way they were treated when they asked a question or what they perceived to be the tenor of the discussions. oddly enough, they had a better opinion of trailplace. i think for straight-up gear and logistical questions (which is what they were looking for at the time), they felt more comfortable elsewhere.

personally, i appreciate rancor to a degree. i contribute sporadically myself and see it going overboard when folks take things personally and/or make personal comments. we should be discussing ISSUES not individuals! (my 2 cents on that).

Pacific Tortuga
09-13-2006, 10:14
I'm relatively new to WB. I remember a thread about a month ago where a person was asking how to be a Trail Angel. I recall that this thread was started by a new member (her first post I believe).

Result: She was absolutely POUNDED by all the experts here. Had I gotten the same response she did I would have just gone away, (as she likely did).

Amigi, as I recall, congratulated everyone for chasing away this new member.

Before I submit a post, I read it carefully and consider how I would feel if I had asked the question. Just a few words can make a big difference yet say the same thing.

That was the Briggs - Stratton personality indicator. :-?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-13-2006, 10:16
When answering newbie questions, I usually provide links to previous discussions if the topic has been covered many times.

I like a spirited discussion of political topics, but rancor is another matter. Most here are capable of discussing and disagreeing without ad hominen attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) (attacking a person rather than the idea expressed by the person) and other forms of logical fallacy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy) There are some here with whom I rarely agree, but we manage to remain friends in spite of this. I do hope that if I ever engage in such attacks or logical fallacies that you guys will call me on it without rancor. I will deserve it.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 10:21
That was the Briggs - Stratton personality indicator. :-?Funny:) . Or the Harley-Davidson indicator.

mdionne
09-13-2006, 10:21
here's my 2 cents on rancor and dragging old threads into new ones...

Hey Mowgli...you dirty hiker trash! I've been trying to find out how Naomi's been doing for like a month. I PMed you and got nuttin back. ***??? Did she get her sight back completely or what?

:D :D :D

Sly
09-13-2006, 10:23
ya'll might be interested to know what i discovered when i interviewed over 50prospective thrus on springer this past march ('06). a good number of them mentioned that they didn't like this site because of the way they were treated when they asked a question

Of course I'm not doubting your word, but I don't see that very often. For the most part newbies are at first welcomed and then their question is answered.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-13-2006, 10:24
::: sits mdionne in the corner for name calling and secretly hopes Mowgli will answer :::

Sly
09-13-2006, 10:25
<hr style="" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
I'm relatively new to WB. I remember a thread about a month ago where a person was asking how to be a Trail Angel.

Result: She was absolutely POUNDED by all the experts here. Had I gotten the same response she did I would have just gone away, (as she likely did).

Have a link?

mdionne
09-13-2006, 10:31
the political threads can get pretty heated, especially when everyone's an expert on hearing what happened in the news.

i usually don't read the political threads, unless it's something i'm interested in. i come here for hiking info and for the community i miss so much from my thru.

it's much easier to type something you might not otherwise say in public, there is safety behind the keyboard, which is why some topics get out of hand.

i hear ya Mowgli and SGT and i think there are a lot of interesting newbies coming to WB that have good input that even the older "trail legends" can learn from...like how to treat a newbie to WB.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 10:37
This is the only one I can think of:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16590

And I don't think she was pounded.

As to comments about people not feeling comfortable on gear questions, I find that interesting because most of them are answered pretty straight forward. The ones that incite passion the most here and are likely to cause someone to get beaten up on verbally are on cell phones, dogs, guns, etc. And that discussion is forbidden on Trailplace.com

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 10:39
<HR SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

Have a link?
I remember that thread. Cant find it though. :mad: :eek:

I agree, though, that most newcomers are treated with respect, until you become a regular member;) .
Some noobies, though, argue relentlessly after they asked the question?! Or take what is good advice ( and it's only advice and ppl's opinions ) and get insulted by it. Like the girl who is getting married and then plans on a thru! That was a funny:confused: thread.

But I'm glad to see Mowgli isn't getting attacked for this thread, like I was. Cant wait for the goats appearance here.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 10:41
This is the only one I can think of:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16590

And I don't think she was pounded.


That's not it Sgt. It was bad in May or June. I wish I could find the dam thing.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 10:41
What's a "good" number?

orangebug
09-13-2006, 10:48
What's a "good" number?Boy, one could really take that question down to the gutter, quickly.

Cuffs
09-13-2006, 10:50
I think its ok for people to post their questions right off the bat, even tho the same info may be burried in the forums.

I think I have pretty good internet navigability skills. I have learned that many do not. If its your first visit to WB, some may find it easier to just make a new post that try to figure out how to search the forums...

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 10:53
Well when it comes to gear, the only time I see most people get into a lather is when someone says "you must have this" or "this is the best" or "you cannot get by without this" or "No matter what you here, you don't need this".

Then someone else says how they did or saw someone that did need it (like a cell phone), or someone else points out that the gear isn't the best and says why (like me with the Jetboil LOL:D) or explains why it is great you did without something, but it is bad to advise others not to (like maps), or how you don't need something even though you are absolutely sure you do (like a gun). These arguments can get pretty bad especially when folks get their feelings hurt. Absolutism, IMO, is the root of a lot of the problems.

Another is name calling. I mean this from the political thread. Say if hikerX disagrees with someone's absolute evidence for global warming, they are often ridiculed as being stupid or believing only in things that support their argument. Not a very good way to debate your point of view, but even some of the more skilled debaters here fall into it. Seems some people have to be RIGHT and cannot accept that others can find evidence that supports things opposite to what they believe and must attack the person and the evidence. That is or can be perceived as the rancor we are talking about.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 10:55
Boy, one could really take that question down to the gutter, quickly.867-5309?

Really, I was just wondering if the site was specific to the questionaire and how many answered in whatever response categories.

I'm all for improvement OB. Let's fix it! INTJ here:D .

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 10:57
I think its ok for people to post their questions right off the bat, even tho the same info may be burried in the forums.

I think I have pretty good internet navigability skills. I have learned that many do not. If its your first visit to WB, some may find it easier to just make a new post that try to figure out how to search the forums...

I know what you mean. Hell, I have been here since the beginning and often think "There was a GREAT post on a thread about that 2 years ago" and then proceed to search the threads for a half an hour to an hour and cannot find them. If I was there, know about the thread, and still cannot find the info I need, how is a newbie going to do that.

Naw, I don't mind answering the same hammock, stove, backpack, or whatever thread for the next 10 years. The thing I find is I don't always think the same now as I did 2 years ago anyway. No problem re-hashing stuff if it helps the newbie.

There ought to be an informal rule. For every post on the off topic forum you must make two helpful posts to the on topic forums.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 10:58
Some people have to be LEFT too!

Alligator
09-13-2006, 10:59
...
There ought to be an informal rule. For every post on the off topic forum you must make two helpful posts to the on topic forums.Two stars and a wish. A praise sandwich.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 11:00
Rock or attroll, where is the thread titled "Civility". It seems to have vanished.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 11:02
There ought to be an informal rule. For every post on the off topic forum you must make two helpful posts to the on topic forums.
This point has been brought up numerous times. There are folks who have NEVER posted to any other thread than the political ones. Or 90% are there, and their tone is carried over to the few hiking threads they do respond to. I am all for the rule.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 11:03
You mean this one: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16157&highlight=civility

It is still there.

Why did you change your avatar. I like Ralph.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 11:04
It's always fair to question someone's evidence.

Sly
09-13-2006, 11:05
This could be the "trail angel" thread. I don't think LW was particulary hard on her, just honest and LW like! :)

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16838&highlight=trail+angel

Lone Wolf
09-13-2006, 11:11
I'm relatively new to WB. I remember a thread about a month ago where a person was asking how to be a Trail Angel. I recall that this thread was started by a new member (her first post I believe).

Result: She was absolutely POUNDED by all the experts here. Had I gotten the same response she did I would have just gone away, (as she likely did).

Amigi, as I recall, congratulated everyone for chasing away this new member.

Before I submit a post, I read it carefully and consider how I would feel if I had asked the question. Just a few words can make a big difference yet say the same thing.
It was a thread started by selahpeace in the Hooking Up forum titled SW VA trail angels.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 11:14
It's always fair to question someone's evidence.

I agree. I just don't think it is fair to simply label them as idiots for believing in evidence contrary to their beliefs.

Example. A while back you and I disagreed on Parvo and dogs spreading it. You convinced me I was interpreting what I was reading wrongly. But you never called me an idiot for believing that.

On the other hand, in the thread on Global warming a while back, people that presented evidence that contradicted the belief in the amount of global waring based on human actions were labeled as idiots for believing it. When they pointed out the scientists that made these conclusions were also experts, then they were also scolded for believing any of the evidence because it was based on research paid by oil companies. Seems that this did not actually refute this evidence and those doing this did not make allowances that there were credible people that believed otherwise. They went straight to name calling.

My point is this sort of thing is exactly the rancor we are talking about. A discussion can end without a winner. You can simply go on with your life and still be plesant to those around you. And in the end it may do more to help sway their belief than beating them verbally on a web board.

Outlaw
09-13-2006, 11:17
I confess, I'm a newbie to WB. I truly love this site for all the little & big tricks and ideas that I have gained from everyones insight and experience.

People just need to agree to disagree. Avoid personal afronts, which I too have noticed some gain in popularity of late.

As to the political stuff, personally I can do without it. In fact, I downright dislike it. Probably b'c I hear it day in and day out. Yes, I don't get into the woods often enough for my liking. Probably has something to do with feeding the family. I read WB to gain knowledge and to somewhat live vicariously through my fellow hikers. When I'm on WB or in the woods, it is my little time away from the daily grind and local, national and global issues, e.g. war, politics, etc. Not that I don't support or have opinions on these issues, but I just want some quiet solitude without conflict, posturing or self-serving individuals. Just my thoughts. Sorry for rambling on. Sgt Rock, you and Attroll do a great job here on WB and you offer a lot of wisdom with no strings attached. I salute you both!

STEVEM
09-13-2006, 11:21
That's not it Sgt. It was bad in May or June. I wish I could find the dam thing.

Amigi, You're right, thats not it. I looked also, can't find anything yet, but trust me, she was POUNDED.

I think Amigi would agree.

Blissful
09-13-2006, 11:33
I was torched a little bit once when I asked about crampons - I neglected to say instep crampons for navigating snow in the Smokies early in the season, etc (BTW - I went and got some Yaktrax devices anyway for my March first start). I was told I knew nothing about the trail for asking such a question, etc. I also have heard it too when asking about sources for maps. Just one or two snide remarks, etc. It gets to me at certain times of the month (women can relate). Other times it can roll off of me. But there's a good saying...if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it. Don't try to rack up brownie points with purple hair - "notice me" phrases, it never works the way you think it will in the end.

STEVEM
09-13-2006, 11:34
It was a thread started by selahpeace in the Hooking Up forum titled SW VA trail angels.

Ed: You're right. Thats the thread. Amigi, it seems like I thought that Mingo's comments were yours. Sorry for any confussion.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 11:36
...

Example. A while back you and I disagreed on Parvo and dogs spreading it. You convinced me I was interpreting what I was reading wrongly. But you never called me an idiot for believing that.
You made me look for other diseases that could be equally as bad. And I hope you don't ever feel like an idiot when I talk to you as I respect your intellect greatly. Group hug.


On the other hand, in the thread on Global warming a while back, people that presented evidence that contradicted the belief in the amount of global waring based on human actions were labeled as idiots for believing it. When they pointed out the scientists that made these conclusions were also experts, then they were also scolded for believing any of the evidence because it was based on research paid by oil companies. Seems that this did not actually refute this evidence and those doing this did not make allowances that there were credible people that believed otherwise. They went straight to name calling.

Weeelllll, I have to say I have a hard time with the credible part but I get what you're saying.


My point is this sort of thing is exactly the rancor we are talking about. A discussion can end without a winner. You can simply go on with your life and still be plesant to those around you. And in the end it may do more to help sway their belief than beating them verbally on a web board.Yeah definitely. Provide the best evidence you have then let them think about it. One will not convince anyone by calling them an idiot. If you feel so strongly that you are engaged in the discussion, why damage your position by name-calling?

Sly
09-13-2006, 11:38
Ed: You're right. Thats the thread. Amigi, it seems like I thought that Mingo's comments were yours. Sorry for any confussion.

You think she was POUNDED? Read the thread again...

Lone Wolf
09-13-2006, 11:41
Amigi, You're right, thats not it. I looked also, can't find anything yet, but trust me, she was POUNDED.

I think Amigi would agree.
I fail to see where she was "POUNDED".

dixicritter
09-13-2006, 11:51
I'm glad to see that the majority of the poster in this thread agree that the "tone" needs to improve towards each other. Name calling, one line zingers, all out verbal wars, and the like are not what we come here for are they?

I'm here to support WB, the AT and SGT Rock. (I'm not telling in what order either.) It's upsetting to see and hear that folks don't feel welcome here. We should all do our part to change that. I know I will.

Just Jeff
09-13-2006, 11:56
I'll do my part. I'm unsubscribing from the political forums.

Wait a minute - how can I unsub from Politics and stay in Humor?

MOWGLI
09-13-2006, 12:02
Wait a minute - how can I unsub from Politics and stay in Humor?

You'll find yourself in better humor after unsubscribing.

I know. I just unsubscribed.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 12:04
You made me look for other diseases that could be equally as bad. And I hope you don't ever feel like an idiot when I talk to you as I respect your intellect greatly. Group hug.

No I never felt like I was an idiot. I understand there are things I don't know about. And many times we all find out we don't know WHAT we don't know about.


Weeelllll, I have to say I have a hard time with the credible part but I get what you're saying.

Why do you think I picked that example ;)


Yeah definitely. Provide the best evidence you have then let them think about it. One will not convince anyone by calling them an idiot. If you feel so strongly that you are engaged in the discussion, why damage your position by name-calling?

Absolutely. I learned as a recruiter never to directly challenge someone's beliefs on things even when they were wrong because you cause them to defend their beliefs - which does not win the contract. Re-stating, re-directing, and acknowledgment of agreed upon points helps a lot.

BTW, I sucked as a recruiter because I am a person that believes in letting people decide what they want to and I also don't like annoying people into believing me. So what made me a lousy recruiter probably makes me someone that is easier to get along with on a web site.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 12:06
I'm glad to see that the majority of the poster in this thread agree that the "tone" needs to improve towards each other. Name calling, one line zingers, all out verbal wars, and the like are not what we come here for are they?

I'm here to support WB, the AT and SGT Rock. (I'm not telling in what order either.) It's upsetting to see and hear that folks don't feel welcome here. We should all do our part to change that. I know I will.No, guilty, not especially, and I come here for the free food.

Shutterbug
09-13-2006, 12:10
I've been gone for 4 days - off helping to build the Mountains to Sea Trail in Western Carolina. As a long time contributor here at WB - I have some perspective on the way that this discussion board waxes & wanes. We are approaching a period where the 2007 hopeful hikers will flock here in droves - filled with questions, anxiety and anticipation.

That brings me to my point. It seems as if the level of rancor displayed here on Whiteblaze has recently been ratcheted up a few notches. What is disturbing, is that it is mostly the folks who have already hiked the trail. Much of it is in the political forums - and it has taken a nasty turn here & there.

I'd like to suggest that we take a "time out" and try to make this discussion board resemble the trail a bit better. As anyone who has hiked the trail can attest - there is the "real" Appalachian Trail and the "cyber" Appalachian Trail - and the two often do not resemble one another.

Be kind to one another - and set an example for the newbie. Now... go play nice. :sun
I have found that I enjoy reading WhiteBlaze a lot more since I started using the "ignore" feature. There are certain individuals who tend to post only political posts. I don't come to WhiteBlaze for political discussions so I have placed those individuals on my "ignore" list. I no longer even see their posts.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 12:15
I have found that I enjoy reading WhiteBlaze a lot more since I started using the "ignore" feature. There are certain individuals who tend to post only political posts. I don't come to WhiteBlaze for political discussions so I have placed those individuals on my "ignore" list. I no longer even see thier posts.

Great point. I regularly recommend this to people but I think that less people follow this advice than ought to. Seems some would rather bicker with these people or get offended and ask an admin to censor them rather than to use the ignore button.

It has been a philosophy here for a long time that you can sometimes determine how much advice you are going to follow from a certain person based on their actions when they open their mouths about things other than just what filter works best. IF someone regularly posts in a tone you do not like, you can ignore them. Then they can no longer bother you. Generally we hate to do any censorship at all.

ed bell
09-13-2006, 12:23
I've seen several exchanges that could have been avoided if PM's would have been exchanged. Sometimes calling someone out in a thread can result in embarassment which can lead to hostility. Sorta like the "Don't catch HIV" thread.

Sly
09-13-2006, 12:32
I've seen several exchanges that could have been avoided if PM's would have been exchanged. Sometimes calling someone out in a thread can result in embarassment which can lead to hostility. Sorta like the "Don't catch HIV" thread.

Agreed, but when you think of it, not counting the subscribed forums, of all the threads posted to Whiteblaze very few are rancorous. The notable exceptions, dogs, guns, cellphones and snorers!

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 12:37
You mean this one: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16157&highlight=civility

It is still there.

Why did you change your avatar. I like Ralph.
LOL, only for this thread, get it? Keep safe brother.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 12:37
Trekking poles:D .

ed bell
09-13-2006, 12:39
Bear spray:D

Alligator
09-13-2006, 12:39
Wingfoot, Bryson, Warren.

Footslogger
09-13-2006, 12:40
Should certain topics carry a warning message ??

"Potentially Controversial Topic"

'Slogger

ed bell
09-13-2006, 12:40
Ford or canoe:D

Sly
09-13-2006, 12:40
I like to click on 'new posts' from the home page to get a nice overview of all the theads. lately, it seems like there's a plethora of political threads. personally, if i wanted to participate or observe in political threads, i wouldn't go to an AT forum. i dont really see the need for the political section. i realize that some people will always want to argue about that stuff, but I don't see why it would be encouraged anywhere on this site.

LOL... I don't see where it's encouraged at all. Since you don't want to observe or participate in non AT threads, I suggest unsubscribing!

ed bell
09-13-2006, 12:41
hiking the ENTIRE AT:D

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 12:42
I've seen several exchanges that could have been avoided if PM's would have been exchanged. Sometimes calling someone out in a thread can result in embarassment which can lead to hostility. Sorta like the "Don't catch HIV" thread.
Great point, bell pepper.:) Ed and I had a disagreement, ed sent me a very kind PM, and all was resolved. Now, we just make fun of each other.;) :D

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 12:42
FYI, if you want to be banned from a specific forum because you cannot control yourself or are tired of seeing it come up in searches, we Admin have the power to ban you from just one forum specifically. It is what has happened to some individuals and certain forums like the Dog forum.

If you want to request being banned from say the politics thread, just let me know and I can make it happen ;)

the goat
09-13-2006, 12:43
hiking the ENTIRE AT:D

vehicle support too!:D

Alligator
09-13-2006, 12:43
Ford or canoe:DI prefer a subacanoe:jump.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 12:47
I'm glad more ppl are unsubscribing. I did, and enjoy coming here again.

Hey Jeff, think I can send those nasty cartoons to Rock? Wanna see some dirty Simpons comics, Rock? Your fellow Bagdhad Brothers may not shoot straight for a week though!:D

Sly
09-13-2006, 12:47
Im with you all! I do the 'new post" thing too, and totally avoid all that political stuff. This IS a hiking forum after all, and thats why I joined...

Another one that's subscribed to the non AT forum and complaining!


Now, I do think some type of "political" forum should remain, but it shoud be for placing trail issues that come up at local, state and federal levels. (ie: a city voting to allow 500 homes to be built along a corridor...) Anything that calls for action from those who want to help and protect our precious outdoors, needs a place to be posted so that others can be aware.

Here you go....

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23

Alligator
09-13-2006, 12:56
Maybe the Non-AT forum could use a big sticky. This is the Non-AT forum, it has the Politics Forum in it. If you subscribed to it, you will see Political Discussions. These threads will appear when you look for new posts.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 12:59
I'm glad more ppl are unsubscribing. I did, and enjoy coming here again.

Hey Jeff, think I can send those nasty cartoons to Rock? Wanna see some dirty Simpons comics, Rock? Your fellow Bagdhad Brothers may not shoot straight for a week though!:D
Sure, you can send them to me using the send user an e-mail function. I have a pretty sick sense of humor and poor taste.

Sly
09-13-2006, 13:00
Maybe the Non-AT forum could use a big sticky. This is the Non-AT forum, it has the Politics Forum in it. If you subscribed to it, you will see Political Discussions. These threads will appear when you look for new posts.

Yeah, something like that! :rolleyes:

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 13:04
Maybe the Non-AT forum could use a big sticky. This is the Non-AT forum, it has the Politics Forum in it. If you subscribed to it, you will see Political Discussions. These threads will appear when you look for new posts.

I sort of assumed that people knew this or understood it since they wouldn't have seen all that prior to joining

dixicritter
09-13-2006, 13:06
Maybe the Non-AT forum could use a big sticky. This is the Non-AT forum, it has the Politics Forum in it. If you subscribed to it, you will see Political Discussions. These threads will appear when you look for new posts.


Maybe that's not such a bad suggestion, even if it's being made in jest.

Newb
09-13-2006, 13:09
God, love this thread.

We need a top ten list ...

TOP TEN SUBJECTS TO CAUSE RANCOR ON WB:

1. WingNut
2. Bryson
3. Shooting naughty Bears
4. Burying your poop
5. Daring to eat an MRE
6. Filtering vs. Aqua Mira
7. Hammock Hanging vs. Hammock Hating
8. Kicking the homeless out of AT shelters
9. Politics
10. anything to do with equipment lists
10.

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 13:15
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/announcement.php?f=361

Footslogger
09-13-2006, 13:15
Rancor \Ran"cor\, n. [Written also rancour (http://dict.die.net/rancour/).] [OE. rancour, OF.
rancor, rancur, F. rancune, fr. L. rancor rancidity,
rankness; tropically, an old grudge, rancor, fr. rancere to
be rank or rancid.]
The deepest malignity or spite; deep-seated enmity or malice;
inveterate hatred.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 13:18
Ah, I cant see my "civility" thread because I dont subscribe to that section anymore:datz

Alligator
09-13-2006, 13:23
Yes, that's it.

But can you bump it up to the Non-AT Forum level, not the General Non-AT Forum?

ed bell
09-13-2006, 13:26
Rancor \Ran"cor\, n. [Written also rancour (http://dict.die.net/rancour/).] [OE. rancour, OF.
rancor, rancur, F. rancune, fr. L. rancor rancidity,
rankness; tropically, an old grudge, rancor, fr. rancere to
be rank or rancid.]
The deepest malignity or spite; deep-seated enmity or malice;
inveterate hatred.Maybe the word is a bit harsh for our thread topic, eh 'Slogger?

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 13:28
Maybe the word is a bit harsh for our thread topic, eh 'Slogger?
What, no response to my bell pepper crack, ed?:D I still havent told you what Amigi means, have I...hehehe:cool: Soon, my friend, soon.;)

Footslogger
09-13-2006, 13:28
Maybe the word is a bit harsh for our thread topic, eh 'Slogger?
===================================

Might be ...

I sort of knew what the word meant but since we were using it here I decided to look it up. One of those words that has one connotation but a somewhat different and more significant denotation.

'Slogger

SGT Rock
09-13-2006, 13:32
Yes, that's it.

But can you bump it up to the Non-AT Forum level, not the General Non-AT Forum?

Actually I cannot bump it up to the forum level. But what that does is show up under ever sub-forum. So if you go to any sub-forum in the Non-AT forum that announcement shows up.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 13:33
Actually I cannot bump it up to the forum level. But what that does is show up under ever sub-forum. So if you go to any sub-forum in the Non-AT forum that announcement shows up.Ok, just as good.

bfitz
09-13-2006, 13:35
Originally Posted by SGT Rock
There ought to be an informal rule. For every post on the off topic forum you must make two helpful posts to the on topic forums.
I'm not really a gearhead. I read all that stuff, and it's been of immeasurable value to me, but I don't like posting on topics I am ignorant of. Unless I think it will be really funny. Or unless it's mostly subjective observations called for.


This point has been brought up numerous times. There are folks who have NEVER posted to any other thread than the political ones. Or 90% are there, and their tone is carried over to the few hiking threads they do respond to. I am all for the rule.
I honestly think a lot of the non-political fueds are the one's that generate the most rancor, such as carrying a weapon while hiking, dogs, guns, certain prominent figures in the hiking community, etc etc. The political threads are are mostly populated by the same old suspects and we have been happily fueding with eachother for years! I'd miss any and all of them if they quit. We get along just fine!

Whiteblaze is like a family, and what do families do more than anything? They argue!

MOWGLI
09-13-2006, 13:38
hiking the ENTIRE AT:D

It's never been done. Who will be the first? :-?

Alligator
09-13-2006, 13:39
...

Whiteblaze is like a family, and what do families do more than anything? They argue! What do they usually argue about? POLITICS:jump .

Footslogger
09-13-2006, 13:40
Whiteblaze is like a family, and what do families do more than anything? They argue!
=======================================

True ...but the hard part sometimes is drawing the line between arguing and blatant disrespect. Like you, I read through all the posts both informational and political. I just choose (or at least make an honest effort) not to be a part of those that are headed toward the gutter.

If you don't like the way the river is flowing ...don't jump in.

'Slogger

bfitz
09-13-2006, 13:42
Rancor \Ran"cor\, n. [Written also rancour (http://dict.die.net/rancour/).] [OE. rancour, OF.
rancor, rancur, F. rancune, fr. L. rancor rancidity,
rankness; tropically, an old grudge, rancor, fr. rancere to
be rank or rancid.]
The deepest malignity or spite; deep-seated enmity or malice;
inveterate hatred.
I thought it was the monster that Luke Skywalker fought in Jabba's Palace.

Gray Blazer
09-13-2006, 13:45
What, no response to my bell pepper crack, ed?:D I still havent told you what Amigi means, have I...hehehe:cool: Soon, my friend, soon.;)

I know what it means. You all shoulda come to the FL gathering. While I'm here I just wanna say, you can post anything and word it as positively as possible....someone's gonna jump down your throat. As a famous person once said, "Don't be so thin skinned and thick headed.":banana

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 13:48
I know what it means. You all shoulda come to the FL gathering. While I'm here I just wanna say, you can post anything and word it as positively as possible....someone's gonna jump down your throat. As a famous person once said, "Don't be so thin skinned and thick headed.":banana
Shut up, old man.:D

Gotta send ya something. Check your email.

Biloxi
09-13-2006, 13:50
just my 2 cents but here goes..there does seem to be ALOT of bashing that occurs here, and some coming from people I bet can't hike from the lazyboy to the fridge. but feel they are the supreme being of the trail..1 of the things I dont get is when a legitamate question is asked or an intention stated..either the critics and doomsayers attack or the question is pretty much ignored..only receiving a very few reply's.." thank you to those with knowledgeable responses" but then I see rediculous threads receiving hundreds of responses(i.e..minn.smith,..who carries a sword??? ...etc...while some people are trying to prepare for a trip of a lifetime( like me) and either not get much feed back or when asking help from a ''supposed" experianced hiker..you get the ''I'll get back to you" and that never materializes..so you are back to searching here and hopeing to find someone who will take the time to pass along their personal knowledge of the AT..I am certainly not a rookie hiker, however I am new to the AT..and kinda new to WB and at times I wish there was a better source..where you didnt have to strap on hip wadders to get thru the buuull shiiiiit.and just get some real answers without haveing to listen to the mindless ramblings of... well I will just leave it at that, no names THEY know who they are..thx

Gray Blazer
09-13-2006, 13:53
just my 2 cents but here goes..there does seem to be ALOT of bashing that occurs here, and some coming from people I bet can't hike from the lazyboy to the fridge. but feel they are the supreme being of the trail..1 of the things I dont get is when a legitamate question is asked or an intention stated..either the critics and doomsayers attack or the question is pretty much ignored..only receiving a very few reply's.." thank you to those with knowledgeable responses" but then I see rediculous threads receiving hundreds of responses(i.e..minn.smith,..who carries a sword??? ...etc...while some people are trying to prepare for a trip of a lifetime( like me) and either not get much feed back or when asking help from a ''supposed" experianced hiker..you get the ''I'll get back to you" and that never materializes..so you are back to searching here and hopeing to find someone who will take the time to pass along their personal knowledge of the AT..I am certainly not a rookie hiker, however I am new to the AT..and kinda new to WB and at times I wish there was a better source..where you didnt have to strap on hip wadders to get thru the buuull shiiiiit.and just get some real answers without haveing to listen to the mindless ramblings of... well I will just leave it at that, no names THEY know who they are..thx

Like Earth Wind and Fire put it....That's the Way of the World......

bfitz
09-13-2006, 13:54
just my 2 cents but here goes..there does seem to be ALOT of bashing that occurs here, and some coming from people I bet can't hike from the lazyboy to the fridge.
I can yoyo from the lazy boy to the fridge 12 times in one night!

Sly
09-13-2006, 13:57
DonJuan you're fairly new here and have asked 16 questions. I haven't read them all but with a quick glance, it looks as though all have been answered civilly.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 14:02
just my 2 cents but here goes..there does seem to be ALOT of bashing that occurs here, and some coming from people I bet can't hike from the lazyboy to the fridge. but feel they are the supreme being of the trail..1 of the things I dont get is when a legitamate question is asked or an intention stated..either the critics and doomsayers attack or the question is pretty much ignored..only receiving a very few reply's.." thank you to those with knowledgeable responses" but then I see rediculous threads receiving hundreds of responses(i.e..minn.smith,..who carries a sword??? ...etc...while some people are trying to prepare for a trip of a lifetime( like me) and either not get much feed back or when asking help from a ''supposed" experianced hiker..you get the ''I'll get back to you" and that never materializes..so you are back to searching here and hopeing to find someone who will take the time to pass along their personal knowledge of the AT..I am certainly not a rookie hiker, however I am new to the AT..and kinda new to WB and at times I wish there was a better source..where you didnt have to strap on hip wadders to get thru the buuull shiiiiit.and just get some real answers without haveing to listen to the mindless ramblings of... well I will just leave it at that, no names THEY know who they are..thx
I understand your frustration. Been there.

Most threads asking about gear or hiking advice are answered and answered well, IMO. If I can contribute, I do, as do many. I think 'Slogger, Speedy, and me lately have been having a contest as who can give the most advice in the shortest time lately.:D

The MS and Sword threads are a battle of comiedienes(?), and pretty freaking funny. Just friends passing time, giving each other a laugh. I'm sure it doesnt fit every ones SOH, but what does.

If you ever cant get advice on something, PM me, and I'll give you my .02c or steer you to the person who can. We do have legitamate "experts" or at least very knowledgeable people here on just about everything and they will all help out. They always do when asked.

Biloxi
09-13-2006, 14:05
I was not only refering to my post ..yes I have gotten some good advice from some..I was saying in general..and how the subject can swing in a negative way quite quickly, or get all but overlooked..there are some here new to this and are getting their 1st advice from WB and I think it should be taken a little more seriously ..when its a legitimate question..thats all..thx...nothing personal

Outlaw
09-13-2006, 14:16
Not to stir the pot anymore, but there was a recent thread that seemed like it got a bit out of hand. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16660&highlight=pocketmail

A legitimate question was asked then it became a test between a few individuals as to who was right and who was off base. Did any of the rancor add to answering the question, you can decide for yourself. However, IMHO all the BS detracted from the intent and purpose of the underlying question and left many with a feeling of frustration.

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 14:22
...nothing personal
Never thought it was. Keep on coming back. I have a feeling things are getting better.:cool:

Hedge: with most of us.

Creek Dancer
09-13-2006, 14:49
Ahhhhh...now I am feeling the luv! Group hug everyone.

Hey, who pinched my butt?

The Solemates
09-13-2006, 14:50
:-?
Not to stir the pot anymore, but there was a recent thread that seemed like it got a bit out of hand. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16660&highlight=pocketmail

A legitimate question was asked then it became a test between a few individuals as to who was right and who was off base. Did any of the rancor add to answering the question, you can decide for yourself. However, IMHO all the BS detracted from the intent and purpose of the underlying question and left many with a feeling of frustration.

That's just Jack being Jack. You'll get use to ignoring it.

He does have many good things to say about the AT, and I am sure he has helped many a hiker, but he can also be very ornery if you get on his wrong side. (Sorry, Jack, but I think you know this is the truth.)

Sly
09-13-2006, 14:59
Actually ironic that Mowgli started this thread in the general discussion area when he's posted controversial threads of his own that were guaranteed to stir the pot in the politics forum....

TJ aka Teej
09-13-2006, 15:05
It seems as if the level of rancor displayed here on Whiteblaze has recently been ratcheted up a few notches.


I've seen the same thing - an attack the messenger mentality, instead of commenting on the ideas expressed. Some of that rancor slips from the Politics forum into the AT forums, unfortunately. But really, a realitively small amount of WBers participate, (about 40 responded to a recent poll)and it keeps certain topics off the main board.

Real trail world report: I recently met and talked with over 70 AT hikers, service providers, and Park Rangers over four days. Whenever WhiteBlaze, ALDHA, or the Companion became a topic there was only positive feedback.

That being said, I think there might be too much weight being placed on the impact of a few posts to an Internet bulletin board... The arguers just ain't as big a deal as they think they are :D

the goat
09-13-2006, 15:06
Hey, who pinched my butt?

sorry, that was me, couldn't resist......

MOWGLI
09-13-2006, 15:14
Actually ironic that Mowgli started this thread in the general discussion area when he's posted controversial threads of his own that were guaranteed to stir the pot in the politics forum....

Actually Sly, I have rarely started any threads in the political forum. But I am not perfect and have jumped ugly on occasion. Usually it is in the political and non-AT threads, to which I have unsubscribed (today).

Jack Tarlin
09-13-2006, 15:15
Actally, Sole, in a thread devoted to discussing electronic devices on the A.T., discussing the proper and considerate uses of these devices is perfectly appropriate.

But back to the subject at hand.

It's curious that of the folks whose posts are sometimes "rancorous" (and this certainly includes me), it's funny, but with only one or two exceptions, none of them have yet replied to this thread.

Maybe it's cuz they haven't seen it yet. Maybe they recognize themselves and feel bad about it. Who knows?

Here's my two cents:

I think it's good to have an "Off Topic" section, and this includes political threads. Like any other thread or section, people can participate in these discussions, or they can ignore them. This is all well and good.

What I see is a persistent problem is people injecting politics or off-topic stuff into threads where they simply don't belong. For example, a thread devoted to a recent film shouldn't turn into yet another thread bashing the President. A thread devoted to land preservation in Maine shouldn't turn into a discussion of the upcoming elections. In short, political threads and political commentary should stay in that section of the website. Threads devoted to On-Topic subjects, i.e. the Trail,the outdoors, etc., should be permitted to stay on topic.

So here's my suggestion:

Let the Off-Topic and Politics sections stay as they are. People that are interested in such things can go there and argue til the cows come home. But when an On-Topic thread is diverted from its original subject and intention, how about someone chiming in and saying "You've gone off the subject. That's NOT what this thread is about." Hopefuly, the offending party will realize their error, and that will be the end of the matter. I further suggest that if the offending party does NOT do this, then someone should post in with a comment like the following: "The thread has been taken off-topic. I suggest that further discusion of the off-topic matter END or be taken elsewhere."

If these simple measures are enacted, I think it'll help a great deal. When comments or diversions are pointed out for what they are, and THEN IGNORED, the diversion and thread-hijacking wil end of its own accord.

If folks persist in following thru with their off-topic postings, or post angry replies, then administration can step in, delete the posts, and say "This post has been deleted for taking the thread off of its original subject and intention."

If this is done often enough, folks will get the message.

The result of these simple measures:

1. People that wish to talk about things other than the Trail, and especially
those that wish to discuss political matters, will do so in the appropriate
place.
2. If they choose not to do so, they will be informed of this by other
Whiteblazers.
3. If they persist in hijacking the thread after they've been informed of
their having done so, then their posts should be removed from the
thread.

In short order, people will get the message. Off-topic comments will be posted and read in the appropriate places. People that wish to follow or take part in these dialogues can do so. People that do not enjoy seeing these discussions or arguments in inappropriate sections won't have to
endure them anymore. On-topic threads will stay that way; angry and rancorous discussions, especially political ones, will be read only by those who wish to view them; newcomers to the site won't be turned off by
people arguing with each other all over the website, and we can get back to more threads that deal with the subject at hand, i.e. the Appalachian Trail and how we can best help each other enjoy it.

Just an idea....

Oh, and hats off to Mowgli for initiating this discussion.

Sly
09-13-2006, 15:15
I've seen the same thing - an attack the messenger mentality, instead of commenting on the ideas expressed. Some of that rancor slips from the Politics forum into the AT forums, unfortunately. But really, a realitively small amount of WBers participate, (about 40 responded to a recent poll)and it keeps certain topics off the main board.

I challenge anyone to find a topic on the "new posts" page that could be considered rancorous or a problem...

No politics or bumping old threads allowed.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 15:24
I challenge anyone to find a topic on the "new posts" page that could be considered rancorous or a problem...

No politics or bumping old threads allowed.Use today's posts, offenders probably read the rancorous ones LOL.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=243547#post243547

Sly
09-13-2006, 15:27
Use today's posts, offenders probably read the rancorous ones LOL.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=243547#post243547
Sorry, non AT subscribed thread, but I get your drift! That'll cost you a $1 Try again! :D

Alligator
09-13-2006, 15:35
Sorry, non AT subscribed thread, but I get your drift! That'll cost you a $1 Try again! :DYou didn't specifically tie it to Teej's quote! I'll give you 50 cents:) .

This one was some, but there was trolling going on.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13090

Alligator
09-13-2006, 15:36
This one
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17345

and this one
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16668

I see few though (outside Non-AT), but perhaps a more kinder soul may see others.

Skyline
09-13-2006, 15:36
As someone who participates in the political discussions a fair amount, these observations:

When I read someone with a right-of-center POV making statements I know are wrong, or have a color to them designed to paint beliefs I hold an ugly hue--well, I've just GOT to respond.

To appropriate a slogan from ACT UP during the first wave of AIDS activism, Silence=Death. I just can't be silent, lest other readers get the impression that the Righties' POVs are factual, or even in the majority.

I am absolutely certain many of the right-wingers on WB feel the same way about what they read from a left-of-center POV.

IMHO that is why political discussion has been segregated to its own place here. Rightly so, no pun intended. And not a problem if it continues. I'm happy to make an annual $$$ donation to cover the cost of any extra bandwidth my political posts add to WB's bills.

What IS a problem is taking these discussions to a personal level. Calling those who may disagree names, ridiculing THEM for their opinions. Far better, IMHO, to simply refute the argument using as many facts as you can find. Leave the personality attacks out of it. This I try to do as a routine matter, tho I'm sure I've strayed once or twice.

I wish we could all concentrate on the message, not the messenger. There is no reason to even call out the name of the person you are disagreeing with in the text of your reply--it can be very condescending. And it can appear to be kind of immature. When you use the "quote" feature on WB, the person you are responding to automatically appears above the quoted text, so why even use it in your reply?

Alligator
09-13-2006, 15:55
...
I wish we could all concentrate on the message, not the messenger. There is no reason to even call out the name of the person you are disagreeing with in the text of your reply--it can be very condescending. And it can appear to be kind of immature. When you use the "quote" feature on WB, the person you are responding to automatically appears above the quoted text, so why even use it in your reply?
I don't see why this would matter.

or

I don't see why this would matter Skyline.

In fact, I like the 2nd one better because I want you, Skyline, to clarify what you have said. I don't want it to appear more general because only you can really tell the board why you feel this is important.

I'm certainly not trying to be condescending by using your name. If this were a conversation in a group, I would use your name immediately.

Frosty
09-13-2006, 16:03
nm..........................

Frosty
09-13-2006, 16:05
nm............................

Sly
09-13-2006, 16:16
I remember one:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1551

but there was one a lot worse

Since you had to go back 3 years, is it really that much of a problem? Even your example isn't all that bad....

This ENTIRE thread is much ado about nothing, IMO

Frosty
09-13-2006, 16:16
nm...........................

Creek Dancer
09-13-2006, 16:22
sorry, that was me, couldn't resist......

Oh brother, I was pinched by a goat! hehe:eek:

Frosty
09-13-2006, 16:25
nm...................

Sly
09-13-2006, 16:32
Sorry, didn't realize there was a time limit on rudeness to new posters. I'll delete my post.

That's not my point. It's being insinuated rancor and rudness is a common occurance, when it's rare in the total number of threads.

Skyline
09-13-2006, 16:48
I don't see why this would matter.

or

I don't see why this would matter Skyline.

In fact, I like the 2nd one better because I want you, Skyline, to clarify what you have said. I don't want it to appear more general because only you can really tell the board why you feel this is important.

I'm certainly not trying to be condescending by using your name. If this were a conversation in a group, I would use your name immediately.


In this instance I sort of see your point. In other instances I can think of, the person being responded to has his name used over and over again in the reply as if he's being lectured like a little kid. Very condescending.

ed bell
09-13-2006, 16:48
This ENTIRE thread is much ado about nothing, IMOI'm just waiting for some rancor to kick in.;)

ed bell
09-13-2006, 16:51
In this instance I sort of see your point. In other instances I can think of, the person being responded to has his name used over and over again in the reply as if he's being lectured like a little kid. Very condescending.You have a point there. Some replys go overboard and are trying to sound patronizing. Bad form.

Alligator
09-13-2006, 16:58
In this instance I sort of see your point. In other instances I can think of, the person being responded to has his name used over and over again in the reply as if he's being lectured like a little kid. Very condescending.I can agree with you on sometimes.

Outlaw
09-13-2006, 17:34
[quote=Sly] "It's being insinuated rancor and rudness is a common occurance, when it's rare in the total number of threads." I agree overall with Sly that it is a rare occurance, but lately, it seems to be happening more often.

[quote = Jack Tarlin] "Actally, Sole, in a thread devoted to discussing electronic devices on the A.T., discussing the proper and considerate uses of these devices is perfectly appropriate." Jack, you are right that it is important, but IMHO it got way out of hand and way too personal. Like I said earlier today, I read WB for its wealth of info and insight, not for combative personal attacks.

Live and let live.

jmaclennan
09-13-2006, 20:42
referring to my earlier post about the interviews, someone asked what's a "good number." i'm sorry; i was really vague. in fact, it wasn't that many. I'd say out of 53 interviewees, there were about a half-dozen that mentioned it (i.e., that they were turned off by experiences they had on whiteblaze). that said, i was only asking them what websites they used to prepare for the trip. they volunteered their opinions about whiteblaze. as such, there could be more, but probably not too many.

i don't mean to start anything, but i'm not surprised there is so much politically oriented talk given what is going on in the world in recent years. obviously, there are more or less appropriate ways to engage in such talk. healthy debate is healthy. like the one were having right now.:)

Skidsteer
09-13-2006, 21:48
referring to my earlier post about the interviews, someone asked what's a "good number." i'm sorry; i was really vague. in fact, it wasn't that many. I'd say out of 53 interviewees, there were about a half-dozen that mentioned it (i.e., that they were turned off by experiences they had on whiteblaze). that said, i was only asking them what websites they used to prepare for the trip. they volunteered their opinions about whiteblaze. as such, there could be more, but probably not too many.

i don't mean to start anything, but i'm not surprised there is so much politically oriented talk given what is going on in the world in recent years. obviously, there are more or less appropriate ways to engage in such talk. healthy debate is healthy. like the one were having right now.:)

I ran into one chap who was turned off by experiences he didn't have on WB.

In other words he was lurking and didn't like the tone of the responses to folks who had actually signed up and asked questions. He chose not to register because of it.

Thin-skinned? Probably. But I do think that it's a good idea to take a somewhat more formal and polite approach with new members.


Think about it. If a stranger asked you for driving directions in the real world, you'd most likely just tell them how to get there simply and clearly. You probably wouldn't waste a lot of time telling them them to ignore the idiots that advocate a different route.

ed bell
09-13-2006, 22:22
I ran into one chap who was turned off by experiences he didn't have on WB.

In other words he was lurking and didn't like the tone of the responses to folks who had actually signed up and asked questions. He chose not to register because of it.

Thin-skinned? Probably. But I do think that it's a good idea to take a somewhat more formal and polite approach with new members.


Think about it. If a stranger asked you for driving directions in the real world, you'd most likely just tell them how to get there simply and clearly. You probably wouldn't waste a lot of time telling them them to ignore the idiots that advocate a different route.Good point Skids, observing a post count before replying could help a lot of us welcome new posters. I always try to give a :welcome if I get a chance to.

Sly
09-13-2006, 22:39
Talk about thin skinned, Frosty takes his posts and runs...

I wonder if the guy Skidsteer is referring to has ever been a member of an internet forum? Whiteblaze is mild compared to many, if not most I've seen in the past.

Skidsteer
09-13-2006, 22:43
Talk about thin skinned, Frosty takes his posts and runs...

I wonder if the guy Skidsteer is referring to has ever been a member of an internet forum? Whiteblaze is mild compared to many, if not most I've seen in the past.

I've always thought so too but people are people. :rolleyes:

Sly
09-13-2006, 22:51
I've always thought so too but people are people. :rolleyes:

Yup. I wonder how they fare in the real world, or on the trail where nature doesn't care about their feelings?

Amigi'sLastStand
09-13-2006, 23:12
I dont wanna comment on anything specific here, but when TJ and the goat appear here, considering what the overall topic is, I find it *****ing funny that either would even show up.

Nean
09-13-2006, 23:18
Haha, I got jumped on when I first joined. :banana Maybe the guy was having a bad day. I didn't let it bother me. In fact, it's sad he doesn't post here anymore. He was a great help to hikers. :( Another time some things I said were quite twisted. Not the first or last time that will happen.;)
Folks like to stir the pot. Life would be boring w/o a good stir here and there. I really think WB has become more civil as time goes by (remember RnR, LOL) and (truth be known) I enjoy it.
Sometimes the same questions get asked over and over, and responses are few. I think newcomers would be well served reading slightly older threads that can provide a weath of information. Silly threads are great if you are not in the mood for serious.
Live, Love, Laugh, Learn, LETITBE :D

the goat
09-13-2006, 23:26
I dont wanna comment on anything specific here, but when TJ and the goat appear here, considering what the overall topic is, I find it *****ing funny that either would even show up.

dude, what does that mean?

i don't wanna comment on anything specific here, but when considering what the overall topic is, i find it funny, (in a sad sort of way), that one would use profanity directed at others.:-?

i realize you've only been here for a few months, man; but i'm sure if you review my imputs here, you'll find less rancor on my part in the last year, than on yours in the last 3 months.

can't we all just get along?!?!?!?!

saimyoji
09-14-2006, 00:01
can't we all just get along?!?!?!?!

One of the most ignorant, immature, stupid, masogonistic, know-nothing-about-the-world-let-alone-internet-boards, misogynistic, pre-menstrual, post-menapausal, Gore-tex wearing, leki-toting, panty waste of a post EVER.

BTW: :D :D:D

Sly
09-14-2006, 00:06
The hell with it, since this isn't a thread started by a newbie and no one is asking speciific questions, let the rancor commence!

dixicritter
09-14-2006, 00:10
It's y'alls sense of humor that folks need to learn how to deal with and understand. Some of you call yourselves joking around but in this form of communication where there isn't a tone of voice associated with the words it can come across totally the wrong way depending on what kind of day the reader had been having.

Just a little food for thought. Something I tend to forget myself when I make posts from time to time too. :)

bfitz
09-14-2006, 00:10
It's just the way that nosepicking ralph icon stares back at me, mockining me....makes me wanna fight....:datz

dixicritter
09-14-2006, 00:12
It's just the way that nosepicking ralph icon stares back at me, mockining me....makes me wanna fight....:datz

Resist the urge... you can do it! :D

the goat
09-14-2006, 00:18
One of the most ignorant, immature, stupid, masogonistic, know-nothing-about-the-world-let-alone-internet-boards, misogynistic, pre-menstrual, post-menapausal, Gore-tex wearing, leki-toting, panty waste of a post EVER.

BTW: :D :D:D

i'll have you know, i never wear Gore-tex, damnit!!!!:D

Sly
09-14-2006, 00:19
Don't let them get your goat, goat!

saimyoji
09-14-2006, 00:29
It's y'alls sense of humor that folks need to learn how to deal with and understand. Some of you call yourselves joking around but in this form of communication where there isn't a tone of voice associated with the words it can come across totally the wrong way depending on what kind of day the reader had been having.

Just a little food for thought. Something I tend to forget myself when I make posts from time to time too. :)

Total agreement. Hence the importance of the use and mutual understanding of the ***** eating grin icon.

SGT Rock
09-14-2006, 02:18
Glad to see we are still mostly on-topic and thread drift isn't too bad.

Yes, maybe there should be some humor tags. I once got some ugly e-mails after posting that floaties in your water were only extra calories and shouldn't bother you. IMO it was obviously humor. Smilies help. But there are some that refuse to use them. One of them (I may not his quote exactly right) says people that cannot see his sarcasm need a "crutch" of the smiley and inferred in that same post it was because they were uneducated. But of course that same guy often bashes people for their use of sarcasm - and has been known to get very testy with people when he doesn't need to. And as this user I am referring too has even said (about other peoples humor, not his) humor can be just a disguise for some of the most biting comments.

So my point, humor can be a good thing, but "humor" can also be one of the things that leads to the rancor that we are talking about. And some of the worst offenders of this know they are doing it - and they also know they are "hiding" behind the humor as they snipe at others - sometimes some very nasty stuff. Then a few of them come out from behind that "humor" shield and defend themselves as vitriolic as the people they attacked and usually start with "Can't you tell I was kidding". I think that is called passive aggressive.

SGT Rock
09-14-2006, 03:20
I'm glad more ppl are unsubscribing. I did, and enjoy coming here again.

Hey Jeff, think I can send those nasty cartoons to Rock? Wanna see some dirty Simpons comics, Rock? Your fellow Bagdhad Brothers may not shoot straight for a week though!:D

Hey, did you send these already? The reason I ask is I got some weird e-mails last night and I didn't recognize the address plus there were no pictures - like if these strange comments were possible captions to pictures but the pictures were not there.

All I could figure was you tried to send me some stuff and it came through all messed up or I have another cyber stalker again. Wouldn't be the first time.

Just Jeff
09-14-2006, 09:59
I once got some ugly e-mails after posting that floaties in your water were only extra calories and shouldn't bother you. IMO it was obviously humor.

You were kidding about that? I've been eating floaties in my water since I can remember!

(Disclaimer: If this post offended anyone, I'm sorry. And if you don't accept my apology, then piss off. [Insert whichever smiley makes you feel good here. And if you don't like smileys, then...] )

Frosty
09-14-2006, 10:08
Talk about thin skinned, Frosty takes his posts and runs... No, just saw no point in letting my posts be part of this thread, which like so many threads has degenerated from discussing issues to assaulting other posters. I should not have posted to this thread to begin with. I learned a long time ago that having certain opinions here are not okay. Using cell phones is one. In theory one is allowed to have the opinion that cell phones are okay, that you can use any gear you want, but in practice, there are some people who not ony have their opinion (which if fine) but object if your opinion is different. I was as contentious as anyone here, used to defend my opinions, was rounded beat upon, and finaly realized why bother? When I do forget myself and say something that involves an opinion or a belief not endorsed by posting bullies, I generally regret it. If this forum had a delete mechanism, I'd delete the posts, but the best I can do is say nm, which is short for no mas.

I know what I want, I know what I believe, I know what I feel. It isn't necessary to share that with those that won't accept any but their own. (I'm not addressing you specifically, Sly, just the tone of the forum from what I observed). When I came herfe from Trailplace, this place was a breath of fresh air. It has since become a little to anarchistic for me to fully enjoy. Not complaining. Like Trailplace, it is what it is.

The moderators have generally done a good job WB, has more freedom than Trailplace, and less drama than AT-L. WB fits in the middle, pushed toward the AT-L end of the spectrum. I've gone back to Trailplace and enjoy it, and enjoy it here too. AT-L I haven't subscribed to in years.

When I post these days, I try to use a modified Kharma principle. If the post will cause more bad feelings than good, I try not to post. Obviously I am less than perfect in that goal, but I am getting better. When I do post something I should not have posted, and I realize it within the edit period, I go back and remove it. What I often do is type out a message and then not post it. I feel better, and don't contribute to raising the Rancourity Index.

I promise to leave this message up, but I don't intend to post again to this thread. I cannot see much good coming out of it. It never ceases to amaze me that people who are real people on the trail and in real life can be such a-holes on the internet, myself included.

wilconow
09-14-2006, 10:08
Maybe the Non-AT forum could use a big sticky. This is the Non-AT forum, it has the Politics Forum in it. If you subscribed to it, you will see Political Discussions. These threads will appear when you look for new posts.


Thanks for posting this. I forgotten that I subscribed to this, so I unsubbed. *poof* it's gone.

Newb
09-14-2006, 10:36
It's y'alls sense of humor that folks need to learn how to deal with and understand. Some of you call yourselves joking around but in this form of communication where there isn't a tone of voice associated with the words it can come across totally the wrong way depending on what kind of day the reader had been having.

Just a little food for thought. Something I tend to forget myself when I make posts from time to time too. :)

"Absolutely," Newb said introspectivelly, "from now on I'll phrase my posts in a 3rd person objective construct so that I can propperly parse my narrative with emotionally descriptive terms."
Newb reclined at his desk, brought his fingers together and closed his eyes in a moment of thought. How could he possibly break through the limitations of the message board system and convey real empathic responses? He began to sob quietly. Then he noticed the emoticons...

Alligator
09-14-2006, 10:42
"Absolutely," Newb said introspectivelly, "from now on I'll phrase my posts in a 3rd person objective construct so that I can propperly parse my narrative with emotionally descriptive terms."
Newb reclined at his desk, brought his fingers together and closed his eyes in a moment of thought. How could he possibly break through the limitations of the message board system and convey real empathic responses? He began to sob quietly. Then he noticed the emoticons..."That was very emphatic" Alligator mused, as he positioned himself on the floor and commenced laughing.

Just Jeff
09-14-2006, 10:49
"Wow," Jeff thought, "these guys are so descriptive but they forgot that a picture is worth a thousand words. An emoticon would have been much more appropriate in this circumstance." He rolled his eyes.

Alligator
09-14-2006, 11:10
"Bugger me that Just Jeff's right!" declared Alligator from the foot of his desk.

dixicritter
09-14-2006, 11:13
Yeah y'all are a riot.:rolleyes:

Ever stop to think that not everyone's been around forums as long as we have? Some of the newbies to WB are also newbies to the internet in general. :eek: I know it's hard to believe but it happens.

Alligator
09-14-2006, 11:27
Yeah y'all are a riot.:rolleyes:

Ever stop to think that not everyone's been around forums as long as we have? Some of the newbies to WB are also newbies to the internet in general. :eek: I know it's hard to believe but it happens.I'm helpful to newbies Dixicritter, unless they are trolls, especially with site navigation and finding things. To be frank, the selection of emoticons is far too limited. Add some more in.

The Old Fhart
09-14-2006, 11:31
I've been just lurking on this thread because it looks a little too rough for me.;)

dixicritter
09-14-2006, 11:35
I'm helpful to newbies Dixicritter, unless they are trolls, especially with site navigation and finding things. To be frank, the selection of emoticons is far too limited. Add some more in.

I didn't call anybody out for not being helpful. See what I mean about posts can be misread or misunderstood? You just sort of helped me prove my point. I know you're helpful to newbies, I've seen it.

I'll take your suggestion about the emoticons to the software guys and see what we can come up with. :) (Read that to mean I've never added smilies, not sure how to go about it.)

Lone Wolf
09-14-2006, 11:35
I've been gone for 4 days - off helping to build the Mountains to Sea Trail in Western Carolina. As a long time contributor here at WB - I have some perspective on the way that this discussion board waxes & wanes. We are approaching a period where the 2007 hopeful hikers will flock here in droves - filled with questions, anxiety and anticipation.

That brings me to my point. It seems as if the level of rancor displayed here on Whiteblaze has recently been ratcheted up a few notches. What is disturbing, is that it is mostly the folks who have already hiked the trail. Much of it is in the political forums - and it has taken a nasty turn here & there.

I'd like to suggest that we take a "time out" and try to make this discussion board resemble the trail a bit better. As anyone who has hiked the trail can attest - there is the "real" Appalachian Trail and the "cyber" Appalachian Trail - and the two often do not resemble one another.

Be kind to one another - and set an example for the newbie. Now... go play nice. :sun
I've been gone for 5 days - off whacking golf balls at various Myrtle Beach golf courses and it looks like the same old s**t here on Whiteblaze.:D Keep it up folks.

SGT Rock
09-14-2006, 11:43
Ohhh, Ohhh. I know how to add smilies. But seems sometimes they are just re-hashed versions of the same old stuff.

jlb2012
09-14-2006, 11:53
Rank Her - I don't even know her but for sake of argument I vote for a 8.5 ranking.

hammock engineer
09-14-2006, 12:06
HOI

I got to ask, what is fart baseball? It sounds like fun.

hikerjohnd
09-14-2006, 12:11
Ohhh, Ohhh. I know how to add smilies. But seems sometimes they are just re-hashed versions of the same old stuff.

Not looking for new smiles, but would like to see a "Political" area in the trails section. I am not here to bash the president, first lady, or anyone else in office. How I vote is nobody's business but my own. If I want to share my views on the current media sensations I will. Because of the constant bickrering and bashing, I have unsubscribed from the non-AT threads. There are, however, times when a trail issue hits the political realm and I would like to participate in that discussion. Could we add a political realm in the hiking threads, specifically for hiking issues? I do not think it needs to be its own category, maybe a sub category under another heading. Just a thought...

Alligator
09-14-2006, 12:15
I didn't call anybody out for not being helpful. See what I mean about posts can be misread or misunderstood? You just sort of helped me prove my point. I know you're helpful to newbies, I've seen it.

I'll take your suggestion about the emoticons to the software guys and see what we can come up with. :) (Read that to mean I've never added smilies, not sure how to go about it.)You are correct the medium is limited. What I was responding to was the part about newbies, implying that I save my particular posting style:-? for more longer term folks. You're right though tone of voice, syntax, etc. can be perceived incorrectly, even between regulars. I was alluding to this quite early in this thread when I mentioned personality types (Meyers-Briggs). I didn't get any feedback on it though.

If I remember correctly, there were some philosophical differences on including the smilies. A limited set was kept I think to stem rancor:D .

The Old Fhart
09-14-2006, 12:16
I got to ask, what is fart baseball? It sounds like fun.Is that a game where just curmudgeons can play?:-?

Alligator
09-14-2006, 12:21
Not looking for new smiles, but would like to see a "Political" area in the trails section. I am not here to bash the president, first lady, or anyone else in office. How I vote is nobody's business but my own. If I want to share my views on the current media sensations I will. Because of the constant bickrering and bashing, I have unsubscribed from the non-AT threads. There are, however, times when a trail issue hits the political realm and I would like to participate in that discussion. Could we add a political realm in the hiking threads, specifically for hiking issues? I do not think it needs to be its own category, maybe a sub category under another heading. Just a thought...This was mentioned earlier. Trail concerns, issues, and history.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23

bfitz
09-14-2006, 12:42
Is that a game where just curmudgeons can play?:-?
That's Old Fart baseball.

jlb2012
09-14-2006, 12:56
I'll start a new thread over in humor about fart baseball.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-14-2006, 13:12
That's Old Fart baseball....whine...whine... bfitz has equated us old farts with curmudgeons. ....whine...whine....

bfitz
09-14-2006, 13:20
Just because all A's are also B's doesn't mean all B's are also A's.

Newb
09-14-2006, 13:25
Just because all A's are also B's doesn't mean all B's are also A's.

Aha! I love syllogisms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism)!

SGT Rock
09-14-2006, 13:32
Lets see if this works: http://hikinghq.net/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=95

237 smilies to chose from, and none of them that dancing banana.

hammock engineer
09-14-2006, 13:36
http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies2/marchmellow.gif (http://hikinghq.net/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=95#) http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies2/elefant.gif (http://hikinghq.net/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=95#)


Pink elephants and an almost stay puff marshmallow man. Does it get any better than this.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-14-2006, 14:04
Just because all A's are also B's doesn't mean all B's are also A's.Shhhh... how am I going to sneak a logical fallacy in here if you keep complicating this thread with facts?

Skidsteer
09-14-2006, 19:39
Lets see if this works: http://hikinghq.net/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=95

237 smilies to chose from, and none of them that dancing banana.

Right on!

The best word to describe my feelings for that damn banana is rancor.

Heater
09-14-2006, 19:59
Lets see if this works: http://hikinghq.net/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=95

237 smilies to chose from, and none of them that dancing banana.

http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies3/drillsergeant.gif (http://hikinghq.net/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=95#) Rock.

Skidsteer
09-14-2006, 20:03
http://hikinghq.net/forum/images/smilies3/drillsergeant.gif (http://hikinghq.net/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=95#) Rock.

LOL. That's the smiley that should appear automatically when viewing a deleted post.

Gray Blazer
09-15-2006, 08:15
I've been gone for 5 days - off whacking golf balls at various Myrtle Beach golf courses and it looks like the same old s**t here on Whiteblaze.:D Keep it up folks.

Didn't realize they had that many putt-putt courses on Myrtle Beach.:D

Lone Wolf
09-15-2006, 08:19
Didn't realize they had that many putt-putt courses on Myrtle Beach.:D
As bad as I played I should have just played on putt-putt courses.

Time To Fly 97
09-15-2006, 11:20
As bad as I played I should have just played on putt-putt courses.

Yeah, but what about the beer girl? :D

Happy hiking!

TTF

Lone Wolf
09-15-2006, 11:24
Yeah, but what about the beer girl? :D

Happy hiking!

TTF
We played 6 different courses and all the beer "girls" were 50+.

Time To Fly 97
09-15-2006, 11:29
You kinda pretty...you look like my momma...

LOL!

TTF

Cuffs
09-15-2006, 11:50
Even with all this discussion.... it still continues...http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17394

bfitz
09-15-2006, 12:16
Everywhere you go there's always gonna be some ***hats. (that's not directed at anyone in particular, it's a blanket statement...)

Hey, can we have an ***hat smilie? Only in the subscribed forum, of course! (o:B

SGT Rock
09-15-2006, 12:36
Some people think trolling is fun. I never really understood it myself, I guess it is the attention and the emotions they like to create from a long distance view.

The thing is, a troll will not get the point of this conversation anyway, they will do it until they decide to stop or they get run off for some reason.

the goat
09-15-2006, 23:40
(o:B

fitz- now that is a genious idea! i love your keyboard-art!:D

Panzer1
09-16-2006, 00:24
I suspect that some of the negative posts are made under the influence of alcohol.

Panzer

hammock engineer
09-16-2006, 01:21
I suspect that some of the negative posts are made under the influence of alcohol.

Panzer

I post under the influence, but it is mainlyy bad graammer/spelling ad not ranncer.

SGT Rock
09-16-2006, 01:46
I always thought (:B was a dog smiling

Just like do:B is a dog with his toung hanging out

And Oo:B is a dog howling

And /o:B is a confused dog

And )o:B is a sad dog

And (o;B is a dog winking at you.

Heater
09-16-2006, 04:37
I always thought (:B was a dog smiling

Just like do:B is a dog with his toung hanging out

And Oo:B is a dog howling

And /o:B is a confused dog

And )o:B is a sad dog

And (o;B is a dog winking at you.

What about this one?

(_*_)

:D

mweinstone
09-16-2006, 07:30
alcohol is to blame for negetivity and other drugs. straight people dont get quite as vishus. im quittin beer. today is one week. i can allready see a more serious me in my posts and in the mirror.thank you white blaze for helping me to see that i am in fact a jerk and an ass and need work bad. thanx.

Tin Man
09-16-2006, 07:41
It's y'alls sense of humor that folks need to learn how to deal with and understand. Some of you call yourselves joking around but in this form of communication where there isn't a tone of voice associated with the words it can come across totally the wrong way depending on what kind of day the reader had been having.

Just a little food for thought. Something I tend to forget myself when I make posts from time to time too. :)

Dixi has it right. Without the tone of voice and I might add the facial expressions, it is easy to misintrepret a comment. I would also add that it is easier to say something inappropriate behind a screen than face to face. This is what makes written language more difficult than spoken language and it would be helpful if we all paused to reflect on how our comments may be interpreted before hitting the submit button.

Topcat
09-16-2006, 11:19
What about this one?

(_*_)

:D

Thats how the wife signs my name.....is that bad???

Just Jeff
09-16-2006, 11:21
Depends on what she means by it...

STEVEM
09-16-2006, 23:25
I'm relatively new to WB. I remember a thread about a month ago where a person was asking how to be a Trail Angel. I recall that this thread was started by a new member (her first post I believe).

Result: She was absolutely POUNDED by all the experts here. Had I gotten the same response she did I would have just gone away, (as she likely did).

Amigi, as I recall, congratulated everyone for chasing away this new member.

Before I submit a post, I read it carefully and consider how I would feel if I had asked the question. Just a few words can make a big difference yet say the same thing.


You think she was POUNDED? Read the thread again...



This could be the "trail angel" thread. I don't think LW was particulary hard on her, just honest and LW like! :)

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16838&highlight=trail+angel

As suggested, I have reviewed the above thread and actually find it to be worse than I remembered. Consider that Sandra is 21 years old and a new member to this forum. If you review her posts (below) you can see how she went from excitment over a new discovery to defeat. Does anyone really think she joined "an AT group or something"? That was simply a way to get out of here.

How many of the attackers in this thread have kids her age or older. She makes reference to those who have posted thousands of times. What if your kid had her enthuiasm for a new idea trashed like hers was.

The girl apparently was raised well. Her posts are polite and respectful. She should have told you guys to ****** OFF.

By the way, I sent her an e.mail and PM asking her to review and respond to this thread. Her words would be better than mine. alas, no response.

If it were possible I think it would be nice if a "big sister" could contact her
and maybe involve her in some type of hiker event. It would be a shame if she denied herself the privilege of enjoying the AT because of this.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif SW VA trail angels?






<HR style="COLOR: #339966" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
Hello, I am new to all of this, and find the idea of the AT, and those who have spent lots of time on it very very attractive. I probably wont be able to hike significant amounts of it in the near future, but one thing i'm interested in doing is becoming a trail angel. Are they self-professed or is there an organization of them? Can anyone just be one? Are there any in Southwest Virginia that would be interested in doing some hikes and leaving some gifts for the hikers?

-Sandra
:banana


not even fresh water or magic like that? I think you misunderstand me if you think i'm talking about trashing the trails.


alright, let me rephrase. What is a trail angel? What do they do? What is trail magic? What can i do to help out hikers?

And on a different note, after exploring this site a little more than i did before, this will be my last post because it seems that the users of this site (especially the ones that have posted thousands of times) do little more than argue and quarrel over varying opinions on seemingly insignificant issues.


mingo, smile and starlyte, thanks so much for your posts! I was really bummed out by the other responses, but you all have brightened my mood considerably! :sun I'll probably join a ATC group or something here soon and see if i could be a blessing to some hikers.

dixicritter
09-16-2006, 23:35
Steve, while I'll give you that some of the posts in respose to her were harsh and not necessarily called for in the manner they were delivered, I fail to see what happened in that thread as a pounding. I've seen much worse on this site honestly and unfortunately.

Gray Blazer
09-16-2006, 23:57
Steve, while I'll give you that some of the posts in respose to her were harsh and not necessarily called for in the manner they were delivered, I fail to see what happened in that thread as a pounding. I've seen much worse on this site honestly and unfortunately.

Amen to that. I'm glad my 2 posts on that thread were positive, although I'm sure someone could pound me for what I posted. Wait, I've just made this a negative post. I'm so confused.:-? :confused:

Nean
09-17-2006, 00:18
Steve, while I'll give you that some of the posts in respose to her were harsh and not necessarily called for in the manner they were delivered, I fail to see what happened in that thread as a pounding. I've seen much worse on this site honestly and unfortunately.

Don't recall the thread but know how those angel haters can be. Opinions are like (_*_) Sometimes they can be unnecessarlly unneighborly.:eek:

I'm amused when a jerk gets his due, but I've noticed a couple of times when new, young (is it ok to say female?)members ask an innocent question and suffer the venom of a few thick skined WB vets. :( Not trying to pass judgement (I may have been an angel.... but I was never no saint;)) but I do think there are times when we all are capable of going a little over the top.:-?

STEVEM
09-17-2006, 02:34
Steve, while I'll give you that some of the posts in respose to her were harsh and not necessarily called for in the manner they were delivered, I fail to see what happened in that thread as a pounding. I've seen much worse on this site honestly and unfortunately.

Maybe my choice of the word POUNDED was wrong. I would gladly change it to "made to feel unwelcome". The result is exactly the same, a potential new friend to WB and AT is gone.

As far as other threads being worse, I wonder how a often a member has been lost as a result of a heated discussion between equals. I am sure these dicsussions can lead to better understanding and respect.

The thread in question did not involve a discussion among equals. Others saw the same thing and commented, (review the thread).

I suspect that sandra was simply looking for a way to meet other young people like herself, who she viewed to be off on a "great adventure".

I think I probably have beaten this one to death, so I'll go away and shut-up. Indeed, the whole point of my original post is the last sentence:


Before I submit a post, I read it carefully and consider how I would feel if I had asked the question. Just a few words can make a big difference yet say the same thing.

saimyoji
09-17-2006, 13:15
A pounding? Huh. Why don't you all go pound some dirt. :D:banana:banana

Panzer1
09-17-2006, 19:58
I have met a lot of people in my life. Some were so nice that they would give you the shirt off their back, others were mean and nasty.

WB is no different. There are many wonderful people who post here and a very few who are mean spirited individuals.


Panzer

Sly
09-17-2006, 23:23
Then there's some that appear mean and nasty that would also give you the shirt off their back.

dixicritter
09-18-2006, 07:50
That's so true.

Another thought I had recently was that I think sometimes some of us get so wrapped up in folks not feeling welcome here at WB that we get bent out of shape in the wrong way. We then start venting and ranting making the situation far worse, instead of realizing the only person's actions we can control are our own. Maybe if each of us exercises control over our own actions and posts then it'll become contagious and others will start doing the same. In other words lead by example instead of following the pack.

It's worth a try don't you think? :)

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 08:29
i hear ya Mowgli and SGT and i think there are a lot of interesting newbies coming to WB that have good input that even the older "trail legends" can learn from...like how to treat a newbie to WB.

I second that motion..........

Maybe a good thing to do is first to say "Welcome to Whiteblaze, we are glad you joined" or something to the effect before offering any thought on a particular subject that has been laid on the table by a newcomer?

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 08:34
This is the only one I can think of:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16590

And I don't think she was pounded.

As to comments about people not feeling comfortable on gear questions, I find that interesting because most of them are answered pretty straight forward. The ones that incite passion the most here and are likely to cause someone to get beaten up on verbally are on cell phones, dogs, guns, etc. And that discussion is forbidden on Trailplace.com

I remember the girl from Dapper, Virginia who got on here two to three weeks ago and asked about doing some trail angel work that seemed to take offense immediately over a straight forward reply. I say if your that sensitive, then you need first to take a hike and then come on here and aske questions and that ain't gonna happen likely.

So maybe a good starting point for a newcomer is saying "Howdy" or something to that effect and then get straight forward?

SGT Rock
09-18-2006, 08:39
Seems I had a conversation just last night with someone about this. My take was you cannot make everyone happy all the time, so why try? If someone gets offended because you answered them with a straight forward answer then how can you ever make such a person happy?

I really don't want this to become some sort of softy, feel good, group encounter site. To paraphrase:

Are you crying? Are you crying? ARE YOU CRYING? There's no crying! THERE'S NO CRYING IN BACKPACKING!

Lone Wolf called me a talking pile of pig****. And that was when my family drove all the way up from Tennessee to see me hike the trail. And did I cry?

NO. NO. And do you know why?

Because there's no crying in backpacking. THERE'S NO CRYING IN BACKPACKING! No crying!

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 08:42
This could be the "trail angel" thread. I don't think LW was particulary hard on her, just honest and LW like! :)

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16838&highlight=trail+angel

That's the one I was thinking about and Mingo came on there and stirred the pot that eventually that girls feelings got hurt by...........That dang Mingo knows how to get the water a boiling under ny skin and it's hilarious....:banana

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 08:46
I have found that I enjoy reading WhiteBlaze a lot more since I started using the "ignore" feature. There are certain individuals who tend to post only political posts. I don't come to WhiteBlaze for political discussions so I have placed those individuals on my "ignore" list. I no longer even see their posts.

I am more than likely at the top of this guys list...........:-?

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 08:55
I've been PM'ed once or twice and have PM'ed some once or twice. It usually settles the score quickly, sometimes. When this usually happens I put it on the back burner and know that it is on that burner just in case it comes to my front door and then I will have to back up what I say whether I was right or not. Not a pretty scenario to think of sometimes, but that may be the case for at least a few here who get their feelings hurt easily.

I did have one encounter one time with a guy from another site, a local town web site that I posted on. We agreed to meet and battle it out. This guy didn't know me and I never heard orf him either. Man, we ended up getting drunker than wavy gravy and laughing our butts off. Then we picked up where we left off on the thread the next day.............

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 08:57
Then there's some that appear mean and nasty that would also give you the shirt off their back.

That's true, and I know one or two of them..........

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 09:04
Because there's no crying in backpacking. THERE'S NO CRYING IN BACKPACKING! No crying!

Horsecrappy pal! I disagree with you! Your an !#@%^$! Understand? I have met plenty of crybaby's out there and especially a few on the trail as well, I have even sniveled once or twice myself.

I don't know where you got your info from soldier boy but I happen to be an expert on these kind of things, want to argue about that?

Oh yeah, I forgot> your :welcome :D ;) :banana

SGT Rock
09-18-2006, 09:23
That's so true.

Another thought I had recently was that I think sometimes some of us get so wrapped up in folks not feeling welcome here at WB that we get bent out of shape in the wrong way. We then start venting and ranting making the situation far worse, instead of realizing the only person's actions we can control are our own. Maybe if each of us exercises control over our own actions and posts then it'll become contagious and others will start doing the same. In other words lead by example instead of following the pack.

It's worth a try don't you think? :)

This is so true. Everyone complaining about rancor ought to read this and think about it. You can complain about everyone else or you can try to be the guy/gal that is level headed and helpful. The others that you are worrying about are probably more likely to follow you to it than to be harassed into it.

Just Jeff
09-18-2006, 17:15
A pounding? Huh. Why don't you all go pound some dirt. :D:banana:banana

Keep it up and I'm gonna pound those stupid bananas flat...

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 17:26
Keep it up and I'm gonna pound those stupid bananas flat...
i'll help ya..............

saimyoji
09-18-2006, 17:28
Keep it up and I'm gonna pound those stupid bananas flat...

Didn't you post earlier that you disabled the bananas? Must have been someone else because you can obviously see these :banana:banana:banana.

And just for good measure:
http://www.funfilesandsmiles.com/smileys/banana.htm

Crazy Larry #1
09-18-2006, 17:32
Didn't you post earlier that you disabled the bananas? Must have been someone else because you can obviously see these :banana:banana:banana.

And just for good measure:
http://www.funfilesandsmiles.com/smileys/banana.htm

:banana .......................

Just Jeff
09-18-2006, 17:35
And just for good measure:
http://www.funfilesandsmiles.com/smileys/banana.htm

I don't like you anymore. :D

Skidsteer
09-18-2006, 17:50
Didn't you post earlier that you disabled the bananas? Must have been someone else because you can obviously see these :banana:banana:banana.

And just for good measure:
http://www.funfilesandsmiles.com/smileys/banana.htm

That was HOI.

Those of us with IE are trying to track down your address.:D