View Full Version : Sea to Summit Ultra-sil leakage
So I thought I'd get one of these to try out. I got the 13L size and today I filled it with clothes, closed it up, and put in in the shower. After 4-5 minutes I pulled it out and found that the clothes had large wet spots all over them. I was pretty surprised, I've read reviews of other people doing this and not having any leaks. I was hoping to use this for my down sleeping bag, but now I don't trust it.
I've read good things about the OR Hydrolites and the Equinox silnylon sacks. Anyone have leak issues with those?
Also, I posted a question about the Sea to Summit ultra-sils over at Backpacker.com and somebody there said that they weren't made of silnylon. I'm confused, I thought the description said they are siliconized cordura nylon. Isn't that silnylon?
Thanks for the help.
The Solemates
09-14-2006, 18:39
Are you sure you had it sealed correctly? I just purchased one of these bags (the same size actually) for my DSLR. I stuffed it full of paper and ran the same test shower test. I let it run for a good 6-8 minutes, and afterwards I even submerged it in the tub. No leaks.
While I do not trust anything to be completely waterproof, my bag has worked well so far.
bigcranky
09-14-2006, 19:24
You might read this article:
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/DryGear/index.html
hikerjohnd
09-14-2006, 19:29
Ditto on the seam sealing - with few exceptions I would never expect something to be watertight out of the bag...
You might read this article:
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/DryGear/index.html
Pretty interesting. I think I will stay away from sil-nylon.
bigcranky
09-14-2006, 20:46
I'm not sure that's the take-away lesson that I got from the article. However, it means I have to reevaluate the three (!) ultral-sil dry bags that I've already purchased. My experience using sil-nylon in other applications -- tarps, packs, etc. -- is very positive. I have been dry and comfortable in torrential downpours under a simple sil-nylon tarp.
My personal opinion is that the taped seams in the S2S products don't work. But that's just me.
Appalachian Tater
09-14-2006, 22:32
The OR hydrolite bags work well at keeping things dry in your pack. I also had a Sea to Summit silnylon packliner and it worked at first but then started letting water through. It did a good job of protecting the heavy-duty garbage bag that I ended up using, and that did work.
If I had to do it again, I would just use the garbage bag. I must admit I've never seen a garbage bag as thick as the one I used. It came from a hiker box in Gorham.
Incidentally, I also used the Granite Gear packcover which was next to useless in anything but a short, light sprinkle.
I use Equinox silnylon ditty bags on my hikes. They have a drawstring closure, so I don't expect them to be completely waterproof, but the fabric itself has never let any moisture inside. I sealed the seams myself with McNett silnylon sealant. Going to a lighter silnylon fabric may be the problem with the bags you bought).
My personal opinion is that the taped seams in the S2S products don't work. But that's just me.
I think that was the issue since clothing in the bottom of the bag had the wet spots.
The OR hydrolite bags work well at keeping things dry in your pack.
Incidentally, I also used the Granite Gear packcover which was next to useless in anything but a short, light sprinkle.
That's good to know about the hydrolites, but I just got a GG storm cell (not silnylon) pack cover. Is that what you used? GG also has the silnylon cloud pack cover, I only didn't get that one because it was too expensive.
Touch of Grey
09-15-2006, 07:04
I think what a lot of people seem to be confusing when it comes to certain types of water-resistance is that there are degrees of water-resistance. I read an article recently about the differences and many would be surprised. Basically what it said is that even a seam-sealed/welded seal, rubberized drybag should be expected to have minimal leakage.
If a fabric like Silnylon breathes you should then not expect it to keep out water. That's the simple part of it.
However, as stated above there are degrees of water-proofness in fabrics due to what treatments they may have had, how much pressure the water is under (water out of the average spigot has a pressure of somewhere between 20 and 60 lbs a preesure far greater than atmospheric pressure which is somewhere close to 14.9 lb. Also for every so many feet under water the external pressure of the water changes scuba divers can tell you all about this process.), wear and tear of the surface (age and abrasion), etc.
In some cases, it becomes a matter semantics. Listed from most to least, Water impermeable versus water-resistant versus water-repellant.
If I can findwhere I read this info I'll pass it along.
Touch of Grey
hopefulhiker
09-15-2006, 07:30
Excellent article, I used trash bags, and oven roasting bags last year, I liked the oven roasting bag, Something mentioned that I had not seen was using two food bags to counter balance each other when hanging. It would be easier than having to find a tie off place sometimes...
Touch of Grey
09-15-2006, 08:13
Here is a link to understanding the water related fabric issues we seem to face.
http://gorp.away.com/gorp/gear/knowhow/water_rep.htm
Touch of Grey
The Solemates
09-15-2006, 08:40
You might read this article:
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/DryGear/index.html
Excellent read. This guy took some time putting this together. Thanks for the post.
The Solemates
09-15-2006, 08:44
I'm not sure that's the take-away lesson that I got from the article. However, it means I have to reevaluate the three (!) ultral-sil dry bags that I've already purchased. My experience using sil-nylon in other applications -- tarps, packs, etc. -- is very positive. I have been dry and comfortable in torrential downpours under a simple sil-nylon tarp.
My personal opinion is that the taped seams in the S2S products don't work. But that's just me.
I am of the opinion that if things get just a little damp while backpacking, its not that big of a deal. Maybe a little uncomfortable, but certainly not life threatening. To that end, I do not usually even try to keep my gear completely dry; I just use a trash bag as a pack cover and go on my way. The only exception to this is when I have my camera/lenses, etc. with me. Then I want those contents to be completely dry.
QHShowoman
09-15-2006, 10:35
I use the Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil dry sacks ... most recently on a tubing trip down the Shenandoah where I literally just clipped it onto the tube and let it trail behind me. I've never experienced any leakage (I never seam seal them, either), but, what I do occasionally get is condensation inside of the bag that will dampen my items. To counter this, I've taken to putting items that absolutely cannot get wet into plastic ziploc baggies and then putting them inside the dry sack.
trippclark
09-15-2006, 11:07
Are you sure you had it sealed correctly? I just purchased one of these bags (the same size actually) for my DSLR. I stuffed it full of paper and ran the same test shower test. I let it run for a good 6-8 minutes, and afterwards I even submerged it in the tub. No leaks.
While I do not trust anything to be completely waterproof, my bag has worked well so far.
I had the exact same thought. I have three of these bags and tried the same "shower-test" and found absolutely no leaks or dampness. I'd guess that it was either sealed improperly or maybe is just a defective bag. I have found mine to be great!
Appalachian Tater
09-15-2006, 11:11
That's good to know about the hydrolites, but I just got a GG storm cell (not silnylon) pack cover. Is that what you used? GG also has the silnylon cloud pack cover, I only didn't get that one because it was too expensive.
Yes, it was the cloud. I don't believe they had another model available at the time.
Jim Woods' article that BigCranky referenced is first class and should be studied by anyone venturing out-of-doors.
Also, BackpackingLight.com recently did a comparitive article on "dry sacks" that was very comprehensive. Bottom line they found the only sack that leaked more than Sea to Summit was Granite Gear's. The bomber dry sack turned out to be the somewhat heavier WXTex Pneumo Lightweight made by Pacific Outdoor http://pacoutdoor.com/2006/index.cfm?action=product&productID=118&groupID=10&familyID=2
For carrying the extra weight, you get a purge valve that lets you use the bag as a float or a pillow. I use it for my sleeping bag because I do a lot of river crossings and I just don't want to take a chance!
Jim Woods' article that BigCranky referenced is first class and should be studied by anyone venturing out-of-doors.
Also, BackpackingLight.com recently did a comparitive article on "dry sacks" that was very comprehensive. Bottom line they found the only sack that leaked more than Sea to Summit was Granite Gear's. The bomber dry sack turned out to be the somewhat heavier WXTex Pneumo Lightweight made by Pacific Outdoor http://pacoutdoor.com/2006/index.cfm?action=product&productID=118&groupID=10&familyID=2
For carrying the extra weight, you get a purge valve that lets you use the bag as a float or a pillow. I use it for my sleeping bag because I do a lot of river crossings and I just don't want to take a chance!
I've heard of the Backpacking Light article, but don't have access to it since I'm not a member. I'm also not on that site enough to justify the $25 to be a member.
As for the Pacific Outdoor sack, what size do you use for your sleeping bag? I'm a little confused by their measurments: the 13 liter Sea to Summit was 8.5 by 21 inches and the Pacific Outdoor 5 liter is 10 x 20 inches.
Thanks.
Yep, I know what you mean! Different manufacturers quote their dimensions differently. Some include the length of the sack before it is rolled down, some measure it empty and flattened out, etc.
They are also made differntly; some are "tubular" and some are two flat pieces of fabric sewn together.
I go by the volume and ignore the dimensions. I roll up whatever I want to stuff into a dry sack, wrapped in a pillow case, and them measure what I have and convert it to a volume. To be a bit conservative, I usually just multiply the width x height x width even if it looks circular. 61 cubic inches = 1 liter.
I have sleeping bags and quilts that I use depending on the conditions and in winter, I store a change of long-johns, extra socks in with my bag/quilt. So, bundle up what you would store in the sack, measure, convert to liters and order by volume.
ARambler
09-16-2006, 15:14
Yep, I know what you mean! Different manufacturers quote their dimensions differently. Some include the length of the sack before it is rolled down, some measure it empty and flattened out, etc.
They are also made differently; some are "tubular" and some are two flat pieces of fabric sewn together.
...
Yeah, I've vented about this inconsistency also. To get diameter, I take the flat width * 2/3.14. For tubular (flat bottom) I take the straight side to the seam and subtract 1/2 the diameter. or, I'll just measure it full, not measuring the bulge at either end.
...
I go by the volume and ignore the dimensions. I roll up whatever I want to stuff into a dry sack, wrapped in a pillow case, and them measure what I have and convert it to a volume. To be a bit conservative, I usually just multiply the width x height x width even if it looks circular. 61 cubic inches = 1 liter.
To be conservative you should multiply the width x height x width X (3/4).
The actual formula is: multiply the width x height x width X (3.14159/4)
Note: The above assumes width is diameter. If you meant width is flat width, your formula is very conservative.
If you want to use flat width = FlatW: Volume = (FlatW x height x FlatW)/3.14
Rambler
Yes, you are right when measuring the dry bag.
I was trying to say, measure your contents while compressed in a pillow case or strapped together and then buy a bag equal or greater than that volume.
Sometimes I mumble when typing. :-)
Johnny Swank
10-26-2006, 12:48
I used a compactor bag during my thruhike in a GL Breeze knockoff that worked fine. I sewed a couple of Gearskin knock-off a few years ago so the garbage bag thing doesn't work as well.
After using silnylon bags, lining bags with garbage bags, and every other combination, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order some more Pnuemo bags. Those things are absoluetly bomber, and a 50 liter bag weighs 9oz. Heavier than silnylon, but my pack weighs less than a pound.
The ones we used on the Mississippi last year went through more abuse than 3 thru-hikes would give and still are dry as a bone. Here's my gear review on them. The 15 liter bag is the orange one in the middle. I'd use that size for a food bag for 3-4 days, or maybe the next size up is carrying crackers and bread.
http://sourcetosea.net/gear/reviews.html