View Full Version : resident copperheads
pdhoffman
04-23-2003, 05:53
I seem to recall that one or more of the shelters in northern VA/WV are reported to have resident copperheads at the shelter site.
Does anyone know what locations those are?
Thanks. Pete Hoffman
Kerosene
04-23-2003, 07:27
The Manassas Gap Shelter north of Shenendoah National Park had snakes at one time (circa 2000), but it was not in evidence when I passed through in Fall 2001. I did not hear of snakes at any other shelter through that stretch that Fall.
I spoke to the shelter maintainer who said they had trapped snakes then fixed a hole in the floor, cleared out brush in front of the shelter, and repoured the concrete fireplace base to try to keep them away.
However, the mother-of-all wood rats kept me awake all night. There were entries in the shelter log describing how it would lick the salt from people's hair at night. Fortunately, an overnight camper with a Bonfire flood flashlight joined me, so the rat kept to the rafters.
Hikerhead
04-23-2003, 07:33
Dicks Dome is a shelter or area I've heard has had some copperhead problems.
RagingHampster
04-23-2003, 12:58
However, the mother-of-all wood rats kept me awake all night. There were entries in the shelter log describing how it would lick the salt from people's hair at nightHAHAHAHA!!! :D :D :D
"It was the worst accident.... I EVER SEEN!" - Large Marge, Pee-wee's Big Adventure
Jumpstart
04-23-2003, 15:49
There were lots of copperheads sunning themsleves on a log when we had lunch at Manassas Gap shelter. However, there was also a group of boy scouts, under encouragement from their troop "leader" smashing them all with large rocks (despite the facts that the snakes were nowhere near the shelter, nor instigating any harm), so I would say maybe the snake problem is a problem no longer, thanks to the industriousness of these nature lovers...:rolleyes:
web breaker
08-21-2003, 15:33
I passed through the Manassas Gap Shelter two weeks ago and the journal was full of references about Copperheads. In fact someone had drawn a picture of a snake on paper and posted it on the wall.
I don't recall reading as many references about snakes at any shelter on the AT.
Thankfully no reports have been circulated of any one that has been bitten.
Originally posted by Jumpstart
there was also a group of boy scouts, under encouragement from their troop "leader" smashing them all with large rocks (despite the facts that the snakes were nowhere near the shelter, nor instigating any harm)
That is unbelievable. What a knucklehead that Scout Leader is.
In 2000 or 2001 a PATC crew cleaned out Manassas Gap Shelter. It was so bad they wore BIO-HAZARD SUITS! They made a number of improvements to the shelter and for awhile there had been no sightings of the resident snakes, but in speaking to hikers this year it is apparent at least one has returned.
I didn't dstay at mannassas but i stopped for water on my way to one of my favorite shelters, dicks dome. The shelter platform had been raised by PATC so that the snakes would stay below the shelter. A few of my buddies stayed there that night and reported no animals. None at Dicks dome either.
Lamberts Meadow did have many mentions of a large rat though i did not stay there
Rain Man
10-17-2003, 13:11
Originally posted by A-Train
... The shelter platform had been raised by PATC so that the snakes would stay below the shelter. A few of my buddies stayed there that night and reported no animals. ...
Snakes = no rodents. A good equation in my book. I understand some with irrational fears don't agree. :)
Rain Man
Streamweaver
10-17-2003, 13:32
Yup! You'll never see a snake chewing on your food bag !!! Streamweaver
Blue Jay
10-17-2003, 14:27
A rattle snake used to live under the Priest Shelter. I loved that one not only no mice but no snoring either.
Bucky Katt
01-19-2009, 14:17
Do rattlesnakes and copperheads "hibernate" during certain times of the year in the South, or is it pretty much too warm for that?
I was planning at trip to the Spy Rock/ Priest area, and I've been very fortunate not to run into anything more than one black snake and one garden snake in all the years I've been hiking/backpacking...Reading this thread has freaked me out.
There were lots of copperheads sunning themsleves on a log when we had lunch at Manassas Gap shelter. However, there was also a group of boy scouts, under encouragement from their troop "leader" smashing them all with large rocks (despite the facts that the snakes were nowhere near the shelter, nor instigating any harm), so I would say maybe the snake problem is a problem no longer, thanks to the industriousness of these nature lovers...:rolleyes:
Someone should of started chucking rocks at the scout leader .... I would of.
Did they atleast eat snake that night?
Reading this thread has freaked me out.
That's what you get for reading old threads!;)
Jim Adams
01-19-2009, 14:53
2002...copperhead on the rafter in the shelter NOBO just past US RT40 in Maryland. Mention of it by EVERY entry in the shelter register but no mention of it ever bothering anybody.
geek
OldStormcrow
01-19-2009, 14:57
Do rattlesnakes and copperheads "hibernate" during certain times of the year in the South, or is it pretty much too warm for that?
I was planning at trip to the Spy Rock/ Priest area, and I've been very fortunate not to run into anything more than one black snake and one garden snake in all the years I've been hiking/backpacking...Reading this thread has freaked me out.
You won't be seeing any snakes before very late March in the mountains, early march in the swamps. I think we should encourage them at shelters.....helps get rid of bugs, rodents, tourists and very small dogs!
People often mis-identify snakes as being a copperhead or rattlesnake when they are more likley a northern brown snake or garter.
My favorite copperhead photo links expired recently. Maybe someone knows of others. Snakes of Georgia and South Carolina which I often link has good photos (http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/snakes/agkcon.htm). There are also photos in WhiteBlaze's gallery.
Everyone who hikes on the A.T. ought to be able to identify a copperhead.
You're more likely to be struck by lightning than to be bite by a poisonous snake. They are here for a purpose. It's good to have them around. Just watch where you're walking and don't worry about them while you're in the shelters. They don't to have anything to do with you or anything you have. If there's lots of mice in the shelters, then there are no snakes.
I had a large king snake living under our heating/cooling unit for the last 2 or 3 years. I considered myself very fortunate. Last year while I was gone hiking my wife saw it. Up until then she was not aware of it and I hadn't told her for obvious reason. When she saw it, she freaked out and called someone who came over and killed it. Pissed me off too!!
Happy hiking. :sun
WritinginCT
01-19-2009, 15:50
There were lots of copperheads sunning themsleves on a log when we had lunch at Manassas Gap shelter. However, there was also a group of boy scouts, under encouragement from their troop "leader" smashing them all with large rocks (despite the facts that the snakes were nowhere near the shelter, nor instigating any harm), so I would say maybe the snake problem is a problem no longer, thanks to the industriousness of these nature lovers...:rolleyes:
That is just wrong on so many levels. :mad: And I am not a snake-lover. But to just kill them for no purpose is obnoxious. And that stupid scout leader is lucky none of the kids got bitten. Moron.
Read How dangerous are copperhead snakes? (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm) provided by North Carolina State Univerisity Cooperative Extension to find out. Learn also which state records the most venomous snake bites each year. The answers may be surprising.
There were lots of copperheads sunning themsleves on a log when we had lunch at Manassas Gap shelter. However, there was also a group of boy scouts, under encouragement from their troop "leader" smashing them all with large rocks (despite the facts that the snakes were nowhere near the shelter, nor instigating any harm), so I would say maybe the snake problem is a problem no longer, thanks to the industriousness of these nature lovers...:rolleyes:
Ignorance, fear, and a lethal weapon R a dangerous combination! Even worse, is teaching that this combination is acceptable to others!
johnnybgood
01-19-2009, 18:38
Read How dangerous are copperhead snakes? (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm) provided by North Carolina State Univerisity Cooperative Extension to find out. The answer may surprise you.
Shades of Gray I enjoyed reading this article and can attest to their quick strike ability. In 2002 my wife was bitten my a copperhead at a local park that we frequently visit. We were not watching our footsteps and she was bitten on the ankle by an adult copperhead. She was given antivenom in the E.R. but not until 6 hours after arriving.... This is common practice according to the medical doctor that treated my wife. It seems the antivenom has its own negatives affecting the patients blood pressure and other issues .
joshua5878
01-19-2009, 18:57
People often mis-identify snakes as being a copperhead or rattlesnake when they are more likley a northern brown snake or garter.
Look a lot like Copperheads. They are also located in GA, NC & SC
This is a Brown Water Snake
http://www.georgiacountry.com/blogimages/Brownwatersnake2.jpg
MoBill122
01-19-2009, 19:46
I have seen both Brown water snakes and Banded water snakes killed in Georgia by people who thought they were copperheads. Its a shame when people kill harmless snakes.
OldStormcrow
01-19-2009, 21:15
I have seen both Brown water snakes and Banded water snakes killed in Georgia by people who thought they were copperheads. Its a shame when people kill harmless snakes.
It's a shame that people kill snakes....period.
Blissful
01-19-2009, 23:22
I must say that water brown snake looks just like a rattler, and I would not stop on the trail to try and identify it but make tracks fast and far.
Ramblin' Randy
02-25-2009, 09:50
I'm with the Rain Man and some others. EVERY shelter should have a snake. I think we'd all like to see the rodent population controlled, and some shelters are crawling with them. I've been hiking for nearly 50 years, and have NEVER been troubled by a snake. Shelter mice, on the other hand, and occasionally Boy Scouts, for that matter, have been a nuisance. What was that leader thinking?
Rockhound
02-25-2009, 11:03
There were lots of copperheads sunning themsleves on a log when we had lunch at Manassas Gap shelter. However, there was also a group of boy scouts, under encouragement from their troop "leader" smashing them all with large rocks (despite the facts that the snakes were nowhere near the shelter, nor instigating any harm), so I would say maybe the snake problem is a problem no longer, thanks to the industriousness of these nature lovers...:rolleyes: To any adult involved in scouting. please send out a memo. If a troop leader wishes to take a group of scouts on a camping/hiking trip they will have to be smarter and more mature than the scouts themselves. I've seen scouts tag shelters(troop #xxx was here) cut down live trees for firewood, overtake entire shelter areas at the peak of thru-hiker season, contaminate water sources, throw food into the woods, now there out killing snakes. natural enemy of much more vile creatures, shelter mice. All this with the scout leaders standing idly by. I know it's not all troop leaders or even the majority, but incidents like this do happen and they happen frequently. As a hiker, if I see scouts doing something stupid I wont hesitate to bring it to the attention of the scout leader and feel that others should do the same.
Rockhound
02-25-2009, 11:12
It can brought to their attention several different ways.:eek:
Jayboflavin04
02-25-2009, 11:50
Dont kill the snakes or spiders!!! I hate spiders!!!
Mice and skeeters spread disease. Mice can spread the haunta virus through their poo. Which is more than likely more deadly than the snake is.
First of all leave em alone! All the snakes mentioned(copperheads, rattlers, and cotton mouths) are all members of the pit viper family. If you can get a good enough look at it.T hey are identifiable by a more Triagular head and "bumps/pits" behind the eyes. You can tell the snake in the pic above is 'probably" not venomous by the long slender head. And did I mention just leave em alone!
Jim Adams
02-25-2009, 23:40
If you are close enough to notice, copperheads, rattle snakes and cottonmouths all have eliptical pupils and nonpoisonous snakes in North America have round pupils.
geek
Nearly Normal
02-25-2009, 23:48
If you are close enough to notice, copperheads, rattle snakes and cottonmouths all have eliptical pupils and nonpoisonous snakes in North America have round pupils.
geek
....and the ones found in my chicken house get there head knocked off with a grubbing hoe.
I must say that water brown snake looks just like a rattler, and I would not stop on the trail to try and identify it but make tracks fast and far.
Not even close and I meant to to say so earlier. Click on timber rattlesnakes below for some photos. There are better photos available in WhiteBlaze's gallery and elsewhere. I would like to call to the attention of readers a timber rattlesnake image (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17785&catid=searchresults&searchid=22004) from WhiteBlaze's gallery which illustrates both yellow and black color phases. If only a tighter shot existed of the snakes, I'd take the time to crop and enhance it!
My copperheads link with good photos provided by Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) below couldn't be better suited for the purpose.
All Appalachian Trail hikers should know how to identify timber rattlesnakes (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/wildlife/rattlesnakes.aspx) and copperheads (http://www.fish.state.pa.us/copprhe.htm). Both are protected species (http://www.fish.state.pa.us/fishpub/summary/repamp.html) in Pennsylvania. It is unlawful to hunt, take, catch, or kill timber rattlesnakes encountered on the A.T. where there is no open season. Unless hikers have a permit issued by PFBC, they have no business doing anything with copperheads either other than looking at them.
The only poisonous snake I know that I have stepped over or walked next to on a hike was a copperhead-the person behind be saw it both times. They will not bother you if you do not step on them, try to handle them or harass them. Snakes eat mice. I wish people would leave them alone. They people who I know who have been bitten stepped on them at night on the way to a camp privy or walking across their yard/driveway. The brown water snakes that are often mistaken for copperheads are very aggressive.
Jayboflavin04
02-27-2009, 10:10
Good point erin....watch something on discovery. This guy was investigating snake bites in the south east. He carried around a rubber arm and leg. The snakes didnt always bite when he harrased them with his rubber appendages.
Whiskey Ninja
08-18-2009, 23:09
Sarver Hollow Shelter has a large "nest" of them living under the fire pit. I have a lot of pics of them. I counted 4 total. There are no mice in the shelter though. I tented and had a large boar come very close to my tent. Almost shat myself. The snakes are harmless if you see them, they do tend to just lay there though and are not inclined to move so if you don't keep your eyes open you could step on one. I moved one off the trail a little ways w/ my hiking pole and he didn't even strike. Then realized there were a bunch more when one slithered out of the rock my foot had just been on. I shined my light into the crack in the rock and saw 2 more.
<a href="http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s41/jml3482/?action=view¤t=DSC03421Large.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s41/jml3482/DSC03421Large.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Whiskey Ninja
08-18-2009, 23:11
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s41/jml3482/DSC03421Large.jpg
Whiskey Ninja
08-18-2009, 23:12
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s41/jml3482/DSC03406Large.jpg
saimyoji
08-18-2009, 23:54
Not even close and I meant to to say so earlier. Click on timber rattlesnakes below for some photos. There are better photos available in WhiteBlaze's gallery and elsewhere. I would like to call to the attention of readers a timber rattlesnake image (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17785&catid=searchresults&searchid=22004) from WhiteBlaze's gallery which illustrates both yellow and black color phases. If only a tighter shot existed of the snakes, I'd take the time to crop and enhance it!
My copperheads link with good photos provided by Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) below couldn't be better suited for the purpose.
All Appalachian Trail hikers should know how to identify timber rattlesnakes (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/wildlife/rattlesnakes.aspx) and copperheads (http://www.fish.state.pa.us/copprhe.htm). Both are protected species (http://www.fish.state.pa.us/fishpub/summary/repamp.html) in Pennsylvania. It is unlawful to hunt, take, catch, or kill timber rattlesnakes encountered on the A.T. where there is no open season. Unless hikers have a permit issued by PFBC, they have no business doing anything with copperheads either other than looking at them.
rattlers tend to be denning animals, so if you come across one, be on the lookout for more nearby.
Not Sunshine
08-22-2009, 09:18
Once upon a time, I saw a radiograph (standard Xray) of a snake...that had swallowed lightbulbs. In response to snakes getting into your chicken coop and causing loss of eggs - the "farmer" of this case allowed a bed of old light bulbs in the coop for the snake to enjoy.
I'm not saying it would be something I would do. I'm just saying, in response to the person who mentioned having snakes in their chicken coop - this is a pretty safe way of ridding yourself of a snake without getting close.
Killing snakes out on the trail is awful. I agree with those who were appalled by the "troop leader" who went out and needlessly killed a nest of snakes. I hope his pack/tent is chewed up by mice.
Not Sunshine
08-22-2009, 09:22
I think this should be shared:
BABY snakes have less ability to withhold/save their venom with their strikes. So if you think a BABY snake can't bite you - wrong - they WILL and when they DO, you won't likely be the 1 in 4 who have bite+venom after an ADULT snake bite. Snakes don't want to pump you through of venom, they would much rather save it for a mouse.
They may be smaller, but they're just as dangerous.