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Earl Grey
09-20-2006, 17:12
I read on wikipedia that a few miles of the trail is on private land. Where is this at?

Bloodroot
09-20-2006, 18:24
I read on wikipedia that a few miles of the trail is on private land. Where is this at?

I believe more than a 'few' miles of it is on private land....check this out for a brief history

http://www.landrights.org/OCS/SocioCultural/AppalachianTrailInholders_1.htm

weary
09-20-2006, 21:29
I believe more than a 'few' miles of it is on private land....check this out for a brief history

http://www.landrights.org/OCS/SocioCultural/AppalachianTrailInholders_1.htm
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT ABOUT 20 miles remain to be acquired. Bloodroot's reference, is kind of old and is not an objective look at the process.

I'm sure that there have been inequities in the long process. But I've met some of the key players. All strike me as honest, fair and intelligent people trying to do a complicated job as best they can.

Weary

MOWGLI
09-20-2006, 21:32
In 2000 the trail crossed farmland in Virginia that was privately owned. Signs asked hikers not to camp within that corridor.

VictoriaM
09-20-2006, 21:45
It briefly crosses a private cow pasture in Vernon, NJ.

Old Hillwalker
09-20-2006, 21:57
Parts of the AT corridor that I monitor here in NH are private property. The AT corridor runs through scenic easements. Whenever I do my annual corridor check, and the requisite corridor boundry line clearing I must notify the landowners when I will be doing the work. This volunteer activity is incredibly enjoyable. Bushwhacking all day long. Last spring I spent five days running the boundary and finding all 150 buried AT monuments. :D

Jack Tarlin
09-21-2006, 16:37
Likewise, I believe there are some areas of Pennsylvania that are still on private property; this is one of the reasons there's nowhere legal to camp for quite a ways after Boiling Springs.

TJ aka Teej
09-21-2006, 17:27
Last spring I spent five days running the boundary and finding all 150 buried AT monuments. :D
Thanks for your volunteering, Hillwalker! Where's your section?

Old Hillwalker
09-21-2006, 21:30
Thanks for your volunteering, Hillwalker! Where's your section?

Between Three Mile Road and Moose Mtn Shelter, NH

Part of the boundary goes up over a steep cliffy hillside with really strong bear smell. Fun scrambling or "putting hand to rock" as the Brits say.

Tin Man
09-21-2006, 21:54
Between Three Mile Road and Moose Mtn Shelter, NH

Part of the boundary goes up over a steep cliffy hillside with really strong bear smell. Fun scrambling or "putting hand to rock" as the Brits say.

Wow! We will be going through that section the first week of October. Can't wait to smell the bear. Thanks for all your time and hard work maintaining the trail.

saimyoji
09-21-2006, 23:42
Likewise, I believe there are some areas of Pennsylvania that are still on private property; this is one of the reasons there's nowhere legal to camp for quite a ways after Boiling Springs.

While this is true its amazing how many developed camp spots there are. We're talking prepped, flattened out tent sites with fire rings and often times there is wood already set up there for you. I was blown away by the number of these types of spots from Wind Gap to Water Gap. There were several nice 'stealth' sites from Windsor up to the Pinnacle once you reach the ridge line. Mostly for hammockers though. :eek:

Nean
09-22-2006, 00:45
I believe there is a lttle section just north of Allen Gap in N.C. that is on private land.

rickb
09-23-2006, 17:06
Don't forget the acre around Madison Springs Hut. That is on private land.

Newb
09-26-2006, 09:40
I can't be sure, but there is a private "hiker register" in a front yard on the south side of I-70 in Maryland that looks like it might be private property. The trail cuts through a couple of yards there.

Sly
09-26-2006, 09:52
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT ABOUT 20 miles remain to be acquired. Bloodroot's reference, is kind of old and is not an objective look at the process.

Weary

Yeah, the last reference is from 1983.

the goat
09-26-2006, 09:56
aren't those cornfields in mass. on private land too?...where the trail is b/t a cornfield & the housitonic river?

Almost There
09-26-2006, 10:55
I believe part of the trail in Central Virginia as you come out of the forest near the abandoned house before getting to Catawba goes through private pasture land. Also I know the trail still goes through private land just north(3-5 miles north) of the Troutdale/Daleville interchange in C. Va. due to signs that are posted.

weary
09-26-2006, 12:02
Yeah, the last reference is from 1983.
Pam Underhill, who directs the AT for the National Park Service, will be speaking at the Maine Mountain Conference to be held Oct. 20 and 21 at the Saddleback Ski Area.

I'll try to get a chance to ask her the status of the acquistions. We shouldn't assume that all the corn fields and pasture land along the trail is privately owned. If I remember rightly, some land was purchased and then leased back to farmers to preserve the traditional uses in farming country.

The conference will provide a great opportunity to learn about the Maine trail, the plants and wildlife, other Maine Mountains, and the people who live nearby. Pam Underhill will attend a Friday dinner and participate in the all day discussion on Saturday.

The Saturday fee -- $35 -- includes lunch. Condos are available for rent at SaddlebaCK. Or lodging is available in Rangeley, or at nearby hostels. I'm staying at the Cabin in East Andover, which is an hour away.

Open www.matc.org to register.

Weary

Cosmo
09-26-2006, 21:42
Goat--
The corn and farm fields in the Housatonic Valley (and also some in Cheshire) in Mass are on NPS lands. The local farmer works them under a special use agreement (SUP) with the National Park Service. For a modest fee, he is required to use "generally accepted good agricultural practice" to keep the land in production. We also have some SUP's in the Tryingham area, one of which is for maple syrup gathering.

We like to keep the "historical" landscape intact (i.e not letting it revert to forest) to provide some relief from the "green tunnel".

Acquisition of the land was mostly by willing sellers in the 1980's. There were some (as in the Cumberland Valley) who were not so willing. There are still some unhappy neighbors. If Trail corridor acquisition were to begin in this day and age, I can't imagine how difficult and expensive it would be. All in all in the 1980's, NPS spent about $12million for corridor lands in Mass.

More than you wanted to know, no doubt.

Cosmo

weary
09-26-2006, 21:57
Goat--
The corn and farm fields in the Housatonic Valley (and also some in Cheshire) in Mass are on NPS lands. The local farmer works them under a special use agreement (SUP) with the National Park Service. For a modest fee, he is required to use "generally accepted good agricultural practice" to keep the land in production. We also have some SUP's in the Tryingham area, one of which is for maple syrup gathering.

We like to keep the "historical" landscape intact (i.e not letting it revert to forest) to provide some relief from the "green tunnel".

Acquisition of the land was mostly by willing sellers in the 1980's. There were some (as in the Cumberland Valley) who were not so willing. There are still some unhappy neighbors. If Trail corridor acquisition were to begin in this day and age, I can't imagine how difficult and expensive it would be. All in all in the 1980's, NPS spent about $12million for corridor lands in Mass.

More than you wanted to know, no doubt.

Cosmo
The eminent domain debate is mostly nonsense based on a lack of historical knowledge.

Regardless. eminent domain is a common function of all governments. This week, for instance, the state took a half acre of our town land trust land. The land encompasses several hundred feet of salt water, tidal frontage. The state thought the half acre was worth $2,800 WE reluctantly cashed the check. No property rights advocate seemed to even notice, right alone protest.

Weary

Hikerhead
09-26-2006, 22:18
In Pearisburg you walk within feet of a house. If someone was inside using the phone I bet you could hear them.

Tinker
09-27-2006, 01:20
I think the Dartmouth Outing Club owns Mt. Moosilauke. If not, they deeded it back to the government some time after it was willed to them after the owner (I forgot who, now) died a long time ago.

Turtle2
09-27-2006, 12:55
What about the section owned by Dartmouth College? I understand they own Moosilauke Mtn and about 80 miles in thru there.

Rain Man
09-27-2006, 16:04
Last night the speaker at the Nashville Chapter of the Tennessee Trails Association was from the Tennessee Land Trust. She said one of the oldest land trusts is in New England (New Hampshire, I think). It's over 100 years old?

She indicated that a good bit of the land the AT crosses up there is not public land, but rather private land that has been subjected to conservation easements by agreement with the owners. This keeps it in its original usage and prevents development. So, it might look "public," but it's not. It's still privately owned and managed.

Any ideas if I got this story right? How much, how many miles, of the AT crosses such private land?

Rain:sunMan

.

Jack Tarlin
09-27-2006, 18:15
Not as much as you might think, and sometimes, the "easement" sections are very short, like when you come out of the woods in a Trail town and go down someone's driveway for a few yards.

Unless I'm mistaken, over 98% of the trail (and maybe more) is now on Public land, and no longer on private property.

weary
09-27-2006, 19:10
...Unless I'm mistaken, over 98% of the trail (and maybe more) is now on Public land, and no longer on private property.

Think 99 percent, but I'm not sure. When I see Pam Underhill, I'll try to ask her. I vaguely remember the figure of 20 miles a few years ago. Who knows what may have happened under Bush, but I'm sure Pam will.

I'm not sure about NPS easements. I don't recall that any were negotiated in Maine. I think those in Maine all predated the acquisition process. MATC had negotiated the gift of an easement with one of the paper companies, and that was not disturbed when the National Park Service bought most of the Maine route. Later MATC convinced either NPS or the Nature Conservancy or someone to buy fee rights.

WEary

Tin Man
09-27-2006, 21:27
Click here (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.786749/k.D5F9/History.htm) for the link to the ATC web site page describing the history and protection of the trail. They state 99% is public land now.

Almost There
09-28-2006, 10:55
Do the math...if the trail is about 2200 miles that would mean 1% equals 22 miles. Most of the places I have seen in Virginia might be anywhere from 100ft to .5 miles in length. Very small distances. However 22 miles is still 22 miles, and if it's 2% in private hands then we are talking 44 miles.

Rain Man
09-28-2006, 18:46
Click here (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.786749/k.D5F9/History.htm) for the link to the ATC web site page describing the history and protection of the trail. They state 99% is public land now.

Would help greatly if they shared their definition of "public land." Is that only land owned outright by governments? Or, does it include private land that has a "right of way" or "easement" over it? Big difference.

Rain:sunMan

.

Tin Man
09-28-2006, 21:13
Good point and I was wondering the same thing. I just dashed off the following note to [email protected]: I will let you know what they say.

Dear ATC,

There are a few interested hikers on WhiteBlaze.Net who have started a discussion thread regarding what areas of the trail might still be on private land. In the section on trail history of the ATC web site, it states that 99% of the trail is now on public land. Could you share with us exactly what this means. We assume this means approximately 22 miles of the AT; is that correct? Does "public land" mean owned by a local or federal government agency or does it include easements and/or right of way over private land? If the definition of public land includes easements or right of way, could you provide an estimate of how much of the trail is protected in this manner either on a percentage basis or miles. Also, is there a breakdown by state or even specific areas that are private land, easement or right of way?

As dedicated AT enthusiasts, we appreciate the ATC's efforts to protect the trail and look forward to your response.

Happy hiking!

Tin Man of CT

weary
09-28-2006, 21:25
Would help greatly if they shared their definition of "public land." Is that only land owned outright by governments? Or, does it include private land that has a "right of way" or "easement" over it? Big difference. Rain:sunMan .
Public Land is "fee" land -- land that is wholly owned by a government agency.

Easements vary all over the place -- from simply limiting the extent of development, to allowing a narrow corridor of public access, to forbidding all development, forever.

Weary

Sly
09-28-2006, 22:57
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!"

gr8fulyankee
09-28-2006, 23:23
If any body hears; "HEY JACK!" I am looking at getting a couple+ acres in the warren,NH area. I would love to buy at cheap as possible, and as close to the AT,I mean Sh$t If I can build a House for myself, I can build a place for my friends to stay!

Jack Tarlin
09-29-2006, 16:29
If you're serious about this, contact the good folks at the hostel in nearby Glencliff (the next town over from Warren) who may well know about stuff for sale locally. Also, at some point, if you want, I'll send you the real estate section of the Sunday local paper which might give you some idea of availability, prices, etc.

Tin Man
09-29-2006, 18:14
No response from the ATC today. I will be off the grid until next weekend. Have a good week everyone.

Gone AT section hiking!!! ;)