View Full Version : To compress or not to compress down, that is the question
Next week I will be back packing a slot canyon out west. I called for trail conditions today and the water ranges from knee to chest deep.
I have already picked up one of the Sea to Summit pack liners but I want extra insurance on my down bag and quilt. I am considering getting one of the Event Compression Dry Sacks to keep my quilt and bag dry and reduce the space they take up in my pack.
I have read that compression is bad for down but fine for synthetics and that it is fine for down but bad for synthetics!?!?!?!?!?!?!?:confused:
Any thoughts?
hikerjohnd
09-21-2006, 22:39
Assuming you are not storing it long term compressed then there is no problem.
Footslogger
09-21-2006, 22:40
My experience is that long term compression of down does have an apparent negative effect on it's ability to re-establish it's original loft. For that reason the manufacturers suggest that you store a down bag in a large bag.
That said ...using a stuff sack during a hike to store your sleeping bag will not cause lasting effect.
'Slogger
Compression as opposed to simple stuffing will crink the quills found in low-volume "down" and every time you do it, reduce the loft a little. Good, high-volme down has fewer quills and can be compressed a lot - more than any other insulator without deteriorating significantly. But why abuse it? If nothing else, compression will lengthen the time your bag takes to recover its full loft. Take it out as soon as you get to camp to get the loft you paid for.
Your bag will stay as dry in a water-tight stuff sack as in a compression sack. Unless you have a serious pack volume limitation, there is no compelling need to compress.
fiddlehead
09-21-2006, 23:42
i always store my down bags compressed. Sorry i just don't have the room and i've always done this. All my down bags seem fine. Perhaps they would have a little more loft if i hadn't done this, but i've gotten 4 thru-hikes from my present bag. (gonna sleep in it this weekend again)
I don't think it's THAT big of a deal.
hammock engineer
09-21-2006, 23:51
Next week I will be back packing a slot canyon out west. I called for trail conditions today and the water ranges from knee to chest deep.
I have already picked up one of the Sea to Summit pack liners but I want extra insurance on my down bag and quilt. I am considering getting one of the Event Compression Dry Sacks to keep my quilt and bag dry and reduce the space they take up in my pack.
I have read that compression is bad for down but fine for synthetics and that it is fine for down but bad for synthetics!?!?!?!?!?!?!?:confused:
Any thoughts?
I store mine uncompressed. It is too new to tell what compression does.
I have the Sea to Summit Event compression sack. It is pretty nice. I haven't tested the waterproofness of it. The event part is really nice, not having to worry about trapped air. If you have more room in your pack, you could always not fully tighten down the compression bag.
MedicineMan
09-21-2006, 23:59
more times before failure than most synthetics...that said do as posted above and store uncompressed, just like your clips and magazines :)
but on your upcoming trip you're doing the smart thing with the drybag regardless of the compression...you can't afford a wet bag....be careful, we did the slot canyon Spooky 2 years ago (0.25 miles from where the guy had to cut off his arm)-i dont have to tell you about major downpours ruining your day. post pics when you get back.
Definately hang my bag in the closet when I'm not using it! I think everybody here is on the right track with their advice!
Don't worry. I have a few down bags from the 70s-80s, all have been stored compressed and they're fine.
i've NEVER heard of compressing any type sleeping bag for long periods of time that turned out "FINE."
most manufacturers provided a cotton store sack..that allows the bag (Down or Synthetic) to breath & relax while being stored...this is the recommended way to store a bag...new or old.
Touch of Grey
09-22-2006, 07:20
I agree with everyone else that long-term compression is bad for a down bag. Not sure though how I would vote on the poll only because the time issue is not addressed.
Short-term compression, say two or three days max is not a problem. After that in my mind at least you start to see extended times for the loft to re-educate itself as to how to fluff up.
Next week I will be back packing a slot canyon out west. I called for trail conditions today and the water ranges from knee to chest deep.
I have already picked up one of the Sea to Summit pack liners but I want extra insurance on my down bag and quilt. I am considering getting one of the Event Compression Dry Sacks to keep my quilt and bag dry and reduce the space they take up in my pack.
I have read that compression is bad for down but fine for synthetics and that it is fine for down but bad for synthetics!?!?!?!?!?!?!?:confused:
Any thoughts?
Both compression and heat will absolutely KILL synthetics. A bag in a hot car trunk can lose a good amount of loft in a couple of days. Drying a syn bag in a hot dryer is a big no-no. Been there, done that, 20 degree bag became a 50 degree bag in 1/2 hr.
Down is not nearly as heat sensitive, though washing it in harsh detergent is bound to remove some of the oils in the plumules and leave them even more susceptible to absorbing water, which we know is down's biggest enemy.
Wash both types of bags in front loaders on gentle cycle with a cleaner specifically meant for the fill.
Dry the down on low heat in a large dryer with a couple of tennis Balls ( I've heard people say sneakers) thrown in to break up the down clusters.
Line dry synthetic bags, or air dry in a large capacity commercial dryer.
Be careful handling a soaked down bag, as wet down is very heavy and the weight of it can tear the baffle material (often no-see-um mesh).
Store both types of bags (from best to not so great)
Hung in a dry closet
Laid out full length on a shelf.
Loosely folded on a shelf
(Tied with above) In the large cotton storage bag sold with the sleeping bag. (Why they use cotton, I'll never know:-? . Cotton is just as good at absorbing atmospheric moisture in your house as it is on the trail).
Less is more when it comes to compression. A tiny pack may impress some people, but people who know their gear and how to take care of it impress me much more. My sleeping bags only get compressed in my pack by the items I put on top of them. I don't use a sleeping bag stuff sack at all, never mind a compression sack (and I use both down and synthetic).
Dgrav,
You advise, “I have read that compression is bad ... Any thoughts?”
Greater loft provides more warmth. Every time you compress something the amount of loft to which it returns is reduced. Compression reduces warmth.
The greater the degree you compress fill, the more it is damaged, and the capacity of the fill to regain loft is further diminished.
Find a balance which keeps loft dry while minimizing the amount you need to compress it.
I pack the sleeping bag first, in the bottom of the pack, within two trash bags. The sleeping bag is alone within the inner trash bag, which has the top folded over. The outer trash bag also holds clothes, loaded on top of the inner trash bag. The weight of the clothes compresses the sleeping bag which forces “excess” air out. The top of the outer trash bag is also folded over. The weight of items loaded on top of the combined clothing-sleeping-bag trash bag further compresses clothing and the sleeping bag. When my pack is full, my sleeping bag has been automatically compressed by the loading process. My pack is ballooned to its full volume but my sleeping bag has not been compressed more than has been necessary.
Apply the savings, realized by not buying a compression sack, to buying a loftier sleeping bag.
FanaticFringer
09-23-2006, 01:19
I'm thinking of getting the HH snakeskins #4 and rolling my No Sniveller up in them. Would only do this right before I left and would never store the quilt this way. Peter Pan says that is what he does.........And if it's good enough for Peter Pan....well..........
peter_pan
09-23-2006, 07:36
I'm thinking of getting the HH snakeskins #4 and rolling my No Sniveller up in them. Would only do this right before I left and would never store the quilt this way. Peter Pan says that is what he does.........And if it's good enough for Peter Pan....well..........
Correction....Pan says he does this, but uses the now unavailable Python Skins...They are about 25 percent larger than SS#4.....
SS#4 work....but tight....I find it faster to remove the quilt and install daily than to use the SS#4 because They require too much care and time to get it all in the SS#4.... practice about six times and you will find removal is quicker also....
Python Skins are an easy DIY project...directions are on our DIY page....http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/DIY.htm
Pan
I finally got around to posting my pictures on line: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgrav/sets/
fiddlehead
11-13-2006, 00:15
i've NEVER heard of compressing any type sleeping bag for long periods of time that turned out "FINE."
most manufacturers provided a cotton store sack..that allows the bag (Down or Synthetic) to breath & relax while being stored...this is the recommended way to store a bag...new or old.
Never say never. You have now! (at least twice above)
alalskaman
11-13-2006, 02:59
Somebody should do a scientific test...I THINK its not the best thing to do...but depending on the down quality, it may not be the end of the bag's usefulness. I base this on having had to leave a nice winter bag (3 1/4 lb down) with a friend. For about 15 years. I'd asked him to leave it loose, on a shelf. His wife begrudged the space, so he stuffed it. When I retrieved it, it had been in a too-small stuffsack for all that time. I don't think it ever recovered its loft completely, but its hard to tell, the passage of years might have hurt the down in another way.
Maybe somebody else will remember this...one of the high-end sleeping bag companies, I'm thinking North Face, bragged in some of their catalog copy that OTHER companies bought their down from the far east, and had it shipped here in highly compressed bales....while THEY (the good guys) made sure it had never been so treated. Made me wonder, then...if compression before shipping is so bad, then surely their bag will only be at its best before you ever use it? Weird.
I will say, though, that I have pretty much stopped using stuff sacks..just put it in the bottom of the pack (my pack has a really good sort of dry-bag liner so I don't worry about wet) and then put the other stuff on top of the bag. Seems to pack neater, easier to slide, say, tent poles or pack rod down to the bottom of the packbag. And it seems, subjectively, that at the end of the day, the sleepingbag fluffs up quicker than when I used a stuffsack.
JoeHiker
11-13-2006, 17:48
i've NEVER heard of compressing any type sleeping bag for long periods of time that turned out "FINE."
.
But nobody was (as far as I can tell) talking about compressing down for long periods of time, were they? Not the guy you just responded to, anyway. I think it's pretty clear to everyone that you don't want to compress down for long periods of time.
Just to be clear, we're talking about compressing down AT ALL, even just daily while hiking, right?
Toolshed
11-13-2006, 22:39
I don't beleive compressing down for trips will damage the loft. I converted to down many years ago and find it will last a very long time if properly cared for (cleaning, storage and airing out after a trip).
I still have my '83 EMS Robson Long -25F down bag and it still cranks - Having had it out a few times recently (in the last few years) on several trips below -20F in the ADKs (buddy has a minimum registering thermo he likes to tinker with, so we always know how bitterly cold it was). I always have to compress the hell outta that bag to get it into my winter pack and sometimes it stays compressed for several days especially if I am on a long trip back where I am in an airport for a day or so. To be honest, the nylon shell is starting to leak a few puffs every time I use it.
My wife and I each have several other down bags of various temp ratings from the late 80's and early 90's and we have never had any problems with loss of loft or diminished ratings.
We do hang our bags in an upstairs closet when not in use.