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gibsygoldtop
09-22-2006, 21:41
I have been hiking for a long time and have never seen a rattler. That all changed this weekend when we had a run in. No rattling or anything, nothing to cause alarm, just totally freaked us out. This is our biggest fear of being out in the woods, is getting a bitten by a rattler or copperhead.

I know that the chances are slim, but they are always there. How does everyone else get over the fear of getting bit??

Frolicking Dinosaurs
09-22-2006, 22:10
My fear diminished when I found that 7,000 to 8,000 venomous snake bites occur in the US every year and only 10 to 15 of those are normally fatal. Well over 50% of the bites by copperheads and rattlers are 'dry' bites - meaning they do not inject any venom with the bite. Snakes have the ability to decide if venom will be injected or not and they don't waste their venom on creatures too big to be eaten unless they feel extremely threatened. This is why so many hunting dogs that are bitten do not die from the encounter and why so few humans die.

white rabbit
09-22-2006, 22:16
Two weeks ago while on the trail I was leading my wife and another couple. As I was bringing my foot down I noticed something on the trail and altered my step a few inched to avoid it. It was a Copperhead. Freaked my wife out, too. All I heard was, "That's why you shouldn't hike alone!" I just laughed, knocked the snake off the trail, and kept going. Very, very few people die from snake bites in this country. The ride you took to get to and from the hike was far more dangerous.

SGT Rock
09-23-2006, 01:05
Use a camera to get over your fear. You will be so busy trying to get a good pic you won't be scared.

MedicineMan
09-23-2006, 03:25
and use no zoom lens.

white rabbit
09-23-2006, 08:30
Use a camera to get over your fear. You will be so busy trying to get a good pic you won't be scared.

I was bent down looking at the Copperhead a few feet away. My wife told me I was too close but, while I was down there, I should get some pictures and handed me the camera. I did get some good pics.:p

kyhipo
09-23-2006, 08:49
well I can appreciate your concern! it is a reality all us hikers face or will face eventially.I still get spooked when I come across a rattler and penn.has its share for sure.I think it would be normal to get a little shakey but make sure your keep your cool!I have been on clefts with rattlers and looked them almost eye to eye six inches a away I stilly get weary I think we should be a little weary,I dont like rattlers but copperheads are worse in my book.ky

Appalachian Tater
09-23-2006, 12:01
You needn't be frightened of rattlesnakes, but a healthy respect for them is warranted and you should keep your distance. There's a reason they have ratttles.

MOWGLI
09-23-2006, 12:17
How does everyone else get over the fear of getting bit??

Well, you survived the encounter, didn't you? Something like 99.9999% of the folks who encounter venemous snakes in the USA do too. Keep that in mind when the fear crops up, and that should help.

vipahman
09-23-2006, 15:45
Like all wild animals, keep your distance from rattlesnakes. Remember what happened to Crikey!

Bravo
09-23-2006, 15:59
Like all wild animals, keep your distance from rattlesnakes. Remember what happened to Crikey!

Yeah! They even had to pull his line of sunblock off the shelves.


Found out it didn't protect against deadly rays.

STEVEM
09-23-2006, 16:06
and use no zoom lens.

I've never seen a rattlesnake, but I think I will use a zoom lens. At least the first time. See paragraph "once bitten"
http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060820/NEWS01/608200316

saimyoji
09-23-2006, 18:09
While people here will tell you venomous snake bites are rarely fatal, what they fail to tell you is that they are INVARIABLY disfiguring. This means that if you are bitten by a venomous snake, expect to lose the portion of your body at which you were bitten. If you are miles from a road with access to a hospital, you are more likely to lose more of the limb on which you were bitten. Search around for snake bite info, look at the pics and decide for yourself if its worth getting close to the dangerous animal to take a picture of it.

Not an alarmist, just a realist. If you are new to the wild, you should be cautious. Otherwise you could be dead or disfigured,

saimyoji
09-23-2006, 18:11
Oh, RE Fear:

Fear is a good thing most of the time. It keeps you alive. The only thing better than fear that serves to keep you safe is knowledge. Educate yourself from a reliable source.

emerald
09-23-2006, 18:50
As I have time, I may add a few more. Here (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/wildlife/rattlesnakes.aspx)'s a good read I posted before about timber rattlesnakes from Pennsylvania's Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.

While I'd suggest reading the linked document in it's entirety, the take home message is stay at least 3 feet away if you want to avoid being bitten.

Back up and read STEVEM's linked article from The Pocono Record (post #12) if you haven't already and have a few minutes to spare. In addition to conveying much good information, it tells of what can happen when someone invites a rattlesnake to defend itself and the result of such foolishness.

ed bell
09-23-2006, 19:01
I got close to a Rattler to take pictures, but by "close" I mean about 10 feet away. With my arm outstreched, I'd say the camera was about 7 ft away from the snake. That was about all I could muster. Bad thing was that the snake was spotted in my camp, smack dab in the middle of our tenting area. Good thing was it forced us to get comfortable with the idea that snakes are always around.:sun

Blue Jay
09-23-2006, 19:20
Not an alarmist, just a realist. If you are new to the wild, you should be cautious. Otherwise you could be dead or disfigured,

No, you're an alarmist. Although I have to give you credit. It must be hard to type while under your bed.:eek:

saimyoji
09-23-2006, 20:31
Yep, some people will try to make you feel completely safe on the trail. The truth is, there are dangers out there.

I repeat, although the risk of being bitten by a venomous snake is small, IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will SUFFER SERIOUSLY. I'm not telling you to carry snake bite kits, in fact I think they are worthless. I'm not saying not to hike in one of the most rattlesnake infested areas of the AT (like the area I hike regulargly). I'm merely saying IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will lose that part of your body.

To pretend that you are walking in a danger free area is just irresponsible.

Again, know the risk, educate yourself, hike responsibly. Whether its bears, snakes, racoons, mice....whatever.

saimyoji
09-23-2006, 20:35
No, you're an alarmist. Although I have to give you credit. It must be hard to type while under your bed.:eek:



No, no, the credit goes to you. Very difficult indeed to type with your head up your ass. Please post a vid so others can learn from your example. :D

SteveJ
09-23-2006, 21:17
i'll second everything that's been said here. i grew up in the rural south, riding bikes everywhere (we call it mtn biking now!), swimming in the local swimming hole (after taking 22's in the spring to shoot water moccasins), walking 2 or 3 miles thru "the woods" to my buddy's house, and even taking a few formal hikes with the boy scouts....

frequently encountered snakes - most not poisonous. we always had a healthy respect for rattlers, but i can't recall an encounter w/ a rattler where i/we felt in danger. we seldom saw copperheads. i had several heart-pounding encounters w/ water moccasins, tho.....

so.... be informed, respect snakes (my boys will reach down & pick up a snake while i'm still making sure it's not poisonous!), & be careful of where you pitch your tent / tarp (not a worry for me in my hammock!).

saw a copperhead in the cohutta wilderness area a few yrs ago in august. we saw it on side trail to a campsite - we stepped around it, it hadn't moved the next morning..... the camera was about 2 ft away when i took this pic.....

Appalachian Tater
09-23-2006, 21:44
Yep, some people will try to make you feel completely safe on the trail. The truth is, there are dangers out there.

I repeat, although the risk of being bitten by a venomous snake is small, IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will SUFFER SERIOUSLY. I'm not telling you to carry snake bite kits, in fact I think they are worthless. I'm not saying not to hike in one of the most rattlesnake infested areas of the AT (like the area I hike regulargly). I'm merely saying IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will lose that part of your body.

To pretend that you are walking in a danger free area is just irresponsible.

Again, know the risk, educate yourself, hike responsibly. Whether its bears, snakes, racoons, mice....whatever.

Here's some pics of what you're talking about:
http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/rattlesnakepics.htm

speedy
09-23-2006, 21:53
I can completely identify with your fear. I've spent about half my growin' up years in the country and frequently run into snakes, but it still always gets my heart pounding when I first see one. I once skinned a very large timber rattler that had been run over. Even though it was dead, it was still one of the freakiest things I've ever done, but at least I got a nice hide out of it. It's yet another reason I like trekking poles and winter hikes with 43 feet of snow on the ground. :D speedy

Rain Man
09-23-2006, 22:04
It makes more sense to fear beer, than to fear rattlers, if one wants to look at which kills, injures, and maims more victims and worse and is a greater scourge to humanity.

But rationality seems to enter neither man's relations with beer nor rattlers.

Hard to have a rational discussion about irrationalities with irrationals.

Rain:sunMan

.

STEVEM
09-23-2006, 22:16
Yep, some people will try to make you feel completely safe on the trail. The truth is, there are dangers out there.

I repeat, although the risk of being bitten by a venomous snake is small, IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will SUFFER SERIOUSLY. I'm not telling you to carry snake bite kits, in fact I think they are worthless. I'm not saying not to hike in one of the most rattlesnake infested areas of the AT (like the area I hike regulargly). I'm merely saying IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will lose that part of your body.

To pretend that you are walking in a danger free area is just irresponsible.

Again, know the risk, educate yourself, hike responsibly. Whether its bears, snakes, racoons, mice....whatever.

siamyoji, You are 100% right. Understanding that there are risks in the world is not being alarmist.

We all know that you retreat from a ridgetop if lightning threatens. It is no less prudent to watch where you step or place your hands if you are in known snake habitat.

Dead is dead, and it lasts a long time. There are risks in any activity, It only seems wise to recognize those potential risks and take whatever common sense measures are required to minimize them.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/281-10232005-559241.html

Mountain Man
09-23-2006, 22:37
The thing about snakes is like bears or any other wildlife the more you encounter them or be around them the more comfortable you are around them. Just don't get too comfortable. :D Just stay your distance, usually about 3 or 4 feet.( kind of according to how long it is) I've been around snakes most all my life and haven't got bit yet but have had some close calls. My job requires me to catch and relocate Rattlers and copperheads. This summer we have relocated 7 Rattlers and 11 copperheads so for. Two of the rattlers I almost stepped on (within 6 inches) and neither rattled or struck at me until I caught them. It seems copperheads are a little quicker to strike but just my opinion. They was a time I thought all poison snakes should be killed but over the years I got a different outlook on them altogether. They usually just want to get out of your way and go on about thier business. The old timers used to say the second person walking along is the one that usually gets bit. The first one pisses him off and then he bites the second one. :D Thats why I like to stay out front.:) No telling how many you walk right by within striking distance and you never see.:eek: Just the truth.

ed bell
09-23-2006, 22:44
Nice perspective MM. I really like to think hikers and poisonous snakes can share all the room we have out there. :sun

emerald
09-23-2006, 22:52
To find out, read this page (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm) prepared by North Carolina State University Cooperative Extension Service. I found and followed the link by clicking on STEVEM's link (post #24). Thanks, that was a good find. We were in need of more information about copperheads and I thought it might be desireable to provide a direct link.

It is perhaps wise to note what I've often heard about copperheads and is mentioned in the link just posted: they naturally seem to be more inclined to strike.

The information linked in post #24 is said to be based upon an article from October 25, 2005 that appeared in The Mercury, published in Pottstown, Pennsylvania and pertains to a girl bitten by a copperhead brought to school by one of her classmates.

Earl Grey
09-23-2006, 22:53
Here's some pics of what you're talking about:
http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/rattlesnakepics.htm

I just threw up in my mouth. But seriously im more scared of snakes than bears because you can see bears and have some kind of reaction time. With a snake if you step in the wrong place something like in that link could happen to your leg.

Earl Grey
09-23-2006, 22:55
Also just go camping in the winter and you wont have to worry about sneaks. :p

STEVEM
09-23-2006, 22:55
The thing about snakes is like bears or any other wildlife the more you encounter them or be around them the more comfortable you are around them. Just don't get too comfortable. :D Just stay your distance, usually about 3 or 4 feet.( kind of according to how long it is) I've been around snakes most all my life and haven't got bit yet but have had some close calls. My job requires me to catch and relocate Rattlers and copperheads. This summer we have relocated 7 Rattlers and 11 copperheads so for. Two of the rattlers I almost stepped on (within 6 inches) and neither rattled or struck at me until I caught them. It seems copperheads are a little quicker to strike but just my opinion. They was a time I thought all poison snakes should be killed but over the years I got a different outlook on them altogether. They usually just want to get out of your way and go on about thier business. The old timers used to say the second person walking along is the one that usually gets bit. The first one pisses him off and then he bites the second one. :D Thats why I like to stay out front.:) No telling how many you walk right by within striking distance and you never see.:eek: Just the truth.
MM, Seems like North Carolina agrees with you relative to copperheads.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm

ed bell
09-23-2006, 23:03
I just looked at Tater's link.......Ouch.....Damn......I think I need to go lay down.

emerald
09-23-2006, 23:53
Here are some close-up images of copperheads, so that those of you who insist upon knowing what they look like up close will know.:rolleyes: ;)

http://www.fcps.edu/StratfordLandingES/Ecology/mpages/copperhead.htm

emerald
09-24-2006, 00:10
Started May 23rd 2006 by downhill who had similiar concerns about encountering venomous snakes, his thread entitled venomous snakes? contains many Maine and New England references.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15142

Blue Jay
09-24-2006, 02:29
I'm merely saying IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will lose that part of your body.

Who's head is up their a**?? Over 80% of bites involve alcohol and are on the hand. There are very few people who have lost their hands. I have walked by 8 rattlers and did not know I was close enough to be bitten until they rattled once I was past. They could have bitten me but they did not. Once I saw a hiker in front of me step on one. It curled up to strike, but never did. You know nothing about rattle snakes, so shut up. Most bites do not even contain venom. Your statement is insane.

Ramble~On
09-24-2006, 02:58
Yeah! They even had to pull his line of sunblock off the shelves.


Found out it didn't protect against deadly rays.

:eek: That's WRONG !!!!!!!!! just wrong.


Snakes.... for everyone that you see or hear there are plenty that you never know are there......most know that you're there though.

They want nothing to do with you and if you leave them alone they'll do the same. Spiders.....are everywhere....and most of the time you will not know you have been bitten by a spider for a good while after the bite.

Snakes and spiders are there, they live there.....be aware of them and watch where you put your hands and feet....shake out your boots before you put them on etc.

saimyoji
09-24-2006, 05:15
:eek: That's WRONG !!!!!!!!! just wrong.


Snakes.... for everyone that you see or hear there are plenty that you never know are there......most know that you're there though.

They want nothing to do with you and if you leave them alone they'll do the same. Spiders.....are everywhere....and most of the time you will not know you have been bitten by a spider for a good while after the bite.

Snakes and spiders are there, they live there.....be aware of them and watch where you put your hands and feet....shake out your boots before you put them on etc.

Yep. There are also two spiders you should be ALARMED :eek: (not) about: the brown recluse and the blue recluse spiders. Both are venomous, though have very different types of venom.

saimyoji
09-24-2006, 05:29
Who's head is up their a**??

Yours. :p



Over 80% of bites involve alcohol and are on the hand. There are very few people who have lost their hands.


Stats? No, you can't find them because there are none to support your statement. Mostly because you can't read. :eek:




I have walked by 8 rattlers and did not know I was close enough to be bitten until they rattled once I was past. They could have bitten me but they did not. Once I saw a hiker in front of me step on one. It curled up to strike, but never did.


While interesting, this has nothing to do with my statement about IF YOU ARE BITTEN....



You know nothing about rattle snakes, so shut up. Most bites do not even contain venom. Your statement is insane.



Classic blue jay. :banana:banana

StarLyte
09-24-2006, 07:57
Here are some close-up images of copperheads, so that those of you who insist upon knowing what they look like up close will know.:rolleyes: ;)

http://www.fcps.edu/StratfordLandingES/Ecology/mpages/copperhead.htm

EXCELLENT website......

Indeed this beauty has earned it's name....I never actually knew or have seen the head on a copperhead.

I too have heard the rattles after I've passed them on the Trail. Once I was walking on the VA Creeper and noticed a smaller snake out laying in the sun, it didn't move so I thought it was dead or harmless, I got very close to it, photographed and it still didn't budge. Never saw any rattlers. Later was identified as a rattler though. I was actually laying down on the ground photographing head shots of it......

I also heard that a young rattler's venom is more potent than an older adult......true?

Bravo
09-24-2006, 08:38
I also heard that a young rattler's venom is more potent than an older adult......true?


From what I understand it's not more potent it's just that you get it all. Older rattler's will sometimes dry bite(little to no venom) if it's target is larger than something it can kill. Young rattlers don't have this control so if they get you you're getting the full load. What's more scary to me is the young ones don't have rattles yet. I love rattle snakes for their warning. They don't always rattle as soon as I'd like but any chance of a warning is nice.

I never saw a copperhead until my PA section in 2000. I don't know if the copperheads were out more than usual but I lost count of how many I saw. Be careful around the rocks. I set my pack down on a rock and about a minute later a copperhead came out from under the rock and slid up on my pack. Boy was I pissed. I didn't know anything about lightening my load yet and the last thing I needed was the extra weight LOL! These forests creatures are always looking for a free ride.

The hardcore LNT'ers will probably kill me for this but I do have to say that after almost stepping on a rattler across the trail I left a note under a rock warning my brother who was behind me a ways. He really appreciated it and the snake was still there.

StarLyte
09-24-2006, 08:42
Yes Bravo.....
This young snake did NOT have rattlers.....that's why I laid down on the ground next to him and started taking photos.......rather stupid I know but I was intrigued........fascinating creature.....and I was 6" from his head!


Thanks for the information....I learn something new every day on this site.

Bravo
09-24-2006, 08:48
....rather stupid I know but I was intrigued
Thanks for the information....I learn something new every day on this site.

Not that stupid if it's not coiled. And if it's a baby rattler you'll see it's tail moving like a rattle it just doesn't make a noise. I do pool cleaning and repair in Phoenix and I see baby rattlers often. I just got one out of a pool this past week.

highway
09-24-2006, 09:34
A little fear of any venomous snake is not bad; it makes us carefully respect them. Too much fear of them, though, is bad.

Personally, I hate leeches worse than snakes.

Tamarack
09-24-2006, 11:27
snakes do hibernate right? being reptiles and all. Anyone know about when do they hibernate in VA? Also goes for bears. If anyone knows

Thanks

MOWGLI
09-24-2006, 11:28
snakes do hibernate right? being reptiles and all. Anyone know about when do they hibernate in VA? Also goes for bears. If anyone knows

Thanks

Yes, you won't see any in the winter. But that could change with global warming.

Tamarack
09-24-2006, 11:31
Yes, you won't see any in the winter. But that could change with global warming.

haha but when do they nestle down in thier umm burros? hole? is it Oct or Nov or when ever the first snow hits the ground and stays?

Lone Wolf
09-24-2006, 11:35
Yes, you won't see any in the winter. But that could change with global warming.

"Global warming" is a myth dreamed up by leftist extremists.

MOWGLI
09-24-2006, 11:56
"Global warming" is a myth dreamed up by leftist extremists.

A left wing dream. A right wing nightmare.

How did a thread about snakes turn into a discussion on global warming? Let me see.... Thoughts of snakes, leads to thoughts of Congress, leads to political discussion. ha! :sun


haha but when do they nestle down in thier umm burros? hole? is it Oct or Nov or when ever the first snow hits the ground and stays?
The correct word would be "den". Once the weather gets cool - Timber Rattlers are pretty much gone until May. I don't know what the magic temperature is - but they are cold blooded. They like it warm & sunny.

Almost There
09-24-2006, 12:22
Heading up the Priest this June I saw a chipmunk standing about 50yds ahead of me on the trail chittering at something. Wondering what it was I continued forward and the chipmunk looking at me turned around and ran in the opposite direction of what it had been chittering at. Curious I walked forward to the spot it had been at and looked in the area it had been facing. Sure enough stretched out full length with it's head in the air was a 3ft Rattler. I warned my hiking partner as she approached and she went behind me. It was about three feet off of the trail and not moving...but watching. I snapped some pictures for myself and her, and we continued on. I will admit when in deep grass...they are damn hard to see in a picture. Just be aware and show respect...and you will be fine.

Vi+
09-24-2006, 17:38
Bravo,

StarLyte asked (Post #38), “I ... heard that a young rattler's venom is more potent than an older adult......true?”

You advised (Post #39), “(I)'s not more potent it's just that you get it all.”

A possible confounding variable. Pygmy rattlers (Florida Dusky Pygmy Rattlesnake or Ground Rattler) are sometimes mistaken for other rattlesnakes. Allegedly, they live in parts of Georgia as well as throughout Florida.

Extracted from a site (cited below):

(B)abies can coil up comfortably on a quarter. ... (Most) adults ... measure ... less than 2'. ... Rattles are tiny and almost invisible even on the adults, and very difficult to hear even if you are standing close by. A pygmy rattlesnake's rattle sounds a lot like a small buzzing bee. ... They are agile and rather snappy, and can strike almost the full length of their own bodies. As with all snakes, their movement range increases as the temperature goes up.

This species is not thought to be capable of delivering a fatal bite to humans, though infants, the elderly and those whose health is compromised may be at more risk. The bite can cause serious necrosis, so immediate hospital treatment is warranted.

http://www.snakegetters.com/class/florida-pygmy-rattler.html

Vi+
09-24-2006, 17:43
Tamarack,

You ask (Post #43), “snakes do hibernate right? being reptiles and all. Anyone know about when do they hibernate in VA? Also goes for bears. If anyone knows”

Hibernation depends upon the prevailing local weather not a calendar. I don’t know the exact weather conditions for snakes or the forage conditions for other hibernators.

Bear in Virginia don’t hibernate, in that they don’t “sleep” throughout an entire period of winter conditions. Bear, throughout winter in VA, typically sleep two to three days at a time, awaken to forage, then return to sleep. They can also sleep for shorter periods.

As is the rule with snakes, don’t bother them.

Tamarack
09-24-2006, 18:20
oh ok, Thank you :D

emerald
09-24-2006, 18:34
You may want to refer to this page (http://www.snakegetters.com/class/florida-venomous.html) that describes venomous snakes one might encounter there. The linked page was buried one level deep in the link posted by Vi+ (post #49).

emerald
09-24-2006, 18:42
Click on the link and strike [PageDown] to see a map showing the range of this species. It appears to me that it should not be expected on the A.T., but I'm no authority.

http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/snakes/sismil.htm

emerald
09-24-2006, 19:07
This link is one level higher than the pigmy ratttlesnake link I provided earlier and includes range maps for all snakes, venomous and non-venomous, indigenous to Georgia. Areas outside Georgia are included in the range maps. An excellent find and valuable resource!:) ;)

http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/snakes/index.htm

gibsygoldtop
09-24-2006, 22:07
WOW! what a thread this turned out to be. thanks to all the replies and the links that were provided as they were a good read and a wealth of knowledge. encountering the snake on the trail was a thrill and a sense of fear all wrapped up into one. rest assured that will not keep us off the trail, just a little more cautious of our surroundings! thanks!

jzakhar
12-24-2007, 17:30
A copperhead bite wont do that to someone's arm (the picture that was posted, jesus that was disgusting).
You will swell up real real bad and be sore for a few days but for most people a copperhead bite is not a life altering event. YMMV

I don't know anything about rattlesnake poison, i've never been bitten by one thank god.

He is right though, there are plenty of snakes with poison that will cause necrosis of the skin. That picture is really a worst case scenerio, I am not so sure any snake living in the US could cause that kind of tissue damage. I could be wrong though.

The best advice for snakes is to keep your distance and don't do anything stupid, like try to catch or kill it. That is when most bites happen.

jzakhar
12-24-2007, 17:34
I guess im wrong, that picture is of a Western Diamondback rattlesnake bite. Holy crap that is ridiculous.

That is the most ridiculous bite i've ever seen, I wonder if that is a common reaction, he was only 13 when he was bitten.

Cape078
12-24-2007, 18:31
I Always say: "Bite First"
That'll teach'em...

Haha...

Snakes are slipery little devils, even the little ones give me a spook when I come across them. Just gotta watch your step and hope for the best, accidents do happen though. I always fear I'll find one in my sleeping bag, and I always check, That would be the worst I think...

Quagmire
12-24-2007, 19:18
I saw a piece of something on the discovery channel i believe stating that rattle sankes are rattling less and less frequently before strike as a means of preservation. the rattiling gives them away to poachers so they arent warning first. Just something i caught on tv for what its worth.

Darwin again
12-24-2007, 19:24
Yep. There are also two spiders you should be ALARMED :eek: (not) about: the brown recluse and the blue recluse spiders. Both are venomous, though have very different types of venom.

Everybody dies. Just don't touch the damned snakes and you won't get hurt. No problem, no fear. Nothing to be afraid of.

Most snakebites happen because peeps are just acting dumb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_bite):

...approximately 65%[vague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style)] of snakebites occur to the victims’ hands or fingers. When handling snakes it is never wise to consume alcoholic beverages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage). In the United States more than 40% of snakebite victims intentionally put themselves in harms way by attempting to capture wild snakes or by carelessly handling their dangerous pets — 40% of that number had a blood alcohol level (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_level) of 0.1 percent or more.


I've never met an aggressive rattler or copperhead. Black snakes are more likely to come at you with minimal provocation.

Don't touch or mess with the snakes.:rolleyes:

SouthMark
12-24-2007, 19:26
I have yet to hike the AT in the warm weather months without being stung by hornets or yellow jackets or both. An average of 250 people a year in the US die from insect bites and stings. An average of 12 a year die from venomous snake bites .

Cannibal
12-24-2007, 19:53
Rattlesnakes taste good!

jzakhar
12-24-2007, 20:07
I've never met an aggressive rattler or copperhead. Black snakes are more likely to come at you with minimal provocation.



god that is so true, many years ago when I was still a kid I worked on a farm. There was a black snake (caretaker called it a rat snake) that used to wander the properity. I messed with it a few times and it ended up chasing me, I ran :sun

I dont mess with snakes anymore, i've learned my lesson the hard way.

WILLIAM HAYES
12-24-2007, 20:20
I grew up in the south hunting and fishing in the swamps of south georgia. I have had severaL run ins with rattlesnakes and more so with moccasins. My advice is be aware of your suroundings -watch where you put you hands and feet-not all rattlesnakes rattle-most snakes simply want to get away give them the space they deserve-
Hillbilly

JohnnyBongo
12-24-2007, 21:48
I lived and hiked in snake country in the southwest, and the only rattlers I ever saw were in my back yard. :eek:

A desert guide once told me:"never walk in the groups of three" to avoid snake bites. The first person wakes up the snake, the second makes the snake angry, and the third gets it.

emerald
12-24-2007, 22:20
Unfortunate some can't leave something that's already complete alone. We need more locks, but it will be a long time before that notion is accepted.:(

whitefoot_hp
12-24-2007, 22:23
i saw a commercial on tv or the internet talking about how rattlers were 'catching on' to the process of humans hunting and killing them for belts etc. and that they were becoming more agressive towards humans as part of their 'adaptation.'

take-a-knee
12-24-2007, 23:07
While people here will tell you venomous snake bites are rarely fatal, what they fail to tell you is that they are INVARIABLY disfiguring. This means that if you are bitten by a venomous snake, expect to lose the portion of your body at which you were bitten. If you are miles from a road with access to a hospital, you are more likely to lose more of the limb on which you were bitten. Search around for snake bite info, look at the pics and decide for yourself if its worth getting close to the dangerous animal to take a picture of it.

Not an alarmist, just a realist. If you are new to the wild, you should be cautious. Otherwise you could be dead or disfigured,

So true, a pit viper's venom is largely enzymes, it is as if you injected two large syringes of Adolph's Meat Tenderizer into your leg, nothing but bad things happen as a result.

highway
12-25-2007, 07:10
An aggressive snake, in North America, has been the southern "cotton-mouth" Moccasin. But they are shorter and cannot seem to strike as far as the rattlesnake, especially the eastern diamondback variety. Now, those can be HUGE!

Grumpy Ol' Pops
12-25-2007, 08:58
I've never seen a rattlesnake, but I think I will use a zoom lens.

Live in Sussex County and never seen a rattler? That's hard to believe! I've seen many over the years, especially along the ridge of the Kittatinnies. Years ago, as a teenager, we would have rattlesnake hunts along the area of the Old Mine Road. We'd keep them in tanks in the Nature Center of one of the Scout camps there for the Summer, then release them at the end of the season. It was never a problem to find at least a dozen in perhaps an hour, with six to eight of us looking for them. Several people were bitten, some more than once, and the worst was a swelling on the leg.
Yes, they are along the AT up there! Why else would Rattlesnake Mountain have that name? With the major influx of "civilization" into that area in the past twenty years, I'm sure the population of all snakes has decreased, but we still see them to the point of being bored after all these years.

Blue Jay
12-25-2007, 09:05
Everybody dies. Just don't touch the damned snakes and you won't get hurt. No problem, no fear. Nothing to be afraid of.

Most snakebites happen because peeps are just acting dumb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_bite):


I've never met an aggressive rattler or copperhead. Black snakes are more likely to come at you with minimal provocation.

Don't touch or mess with the snakes.:rolleyes:

saimyoji would have responded to this but he's still under his bed, due to now being afraid of ducks.

oldfivetango
12-25-2007, 10:09
saimyoji would have responded to this but he's still under his bed, due to now being afraid of ducks.

You need to back off a bit,pal.The man did not express an obsessive
fear of snakes but he did point out the fact that the venom can leave
disasterous consequences.

It was useful information for people who might have messed with
a snake but now may just be a little more cautious and decide to
leave them alone.

Personally I have encountered a few snakes in the wild including the one
that I stepped on and have not been biten.Doesn't mean that I will stop
looking for them and I will always leave them alone if I see one.

Anyone who has not seen the Discovery Channel's "Venom" series needs
to check it out.Also,thanks,Tater,for the link to the site-it was quite
informative.

Peace to all and Merry Christmas!
Oldfivetango

Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-25-2007, 11:12
Venom is necessary for the snake's survival (to kill its food) and they do have the ability to allow it to be released or not when biting. Most bites people get are venom-free or contain only a small amount of venom because the snake is defending itself - not looking to eat a human - and will only release the venom as a last resort to protect itself. These animals are not looking at us as a potential food source so the only reason for them to bite us is defense. If you don't put a snake in a position to have to defend itself, you will not be bitten.

While sometimes people honestly don't see the snake and get too close, most bites happen when people get too close to get a good pic or attempt to handle or get the snake to move. Leave them alone. Use your zoom lens. Watch where you step, put your hands and sit.

Painted Turtle
12-25-2007, 11:55
I saw a piece of something on the discovery channel i believe stating that rattle sankes are rattling less and less frequently before strike as a means of preservation. the rattiling gives them away to poachers so they arent warning first. Just something i caught on tv for what its worth.

That show you are talking about was based in the South West where they do the yearly Rattle Shank round up. It also went on to say that they are not sure that was what was happening and the study is continuing.

Painted Turtle
12-25-2007, 12:04
As others have pointed out stay away from them, watch where you are stepping and putting your hands.

Remember you are in their house! If someone came into your house and tried to hurt you or step on you you would fight back.

As far as wet or dry bites go. 30% of Rattler bites are believed to be dry meaning that this is not for sure. Copperheads on the other hand very rarely dry bite. Again not an absolute.

As far As Cotton Mouths (water maccasons) go both Steve Erwin and Jeff Corwin have done specials on how non-agressive these snakes are. That they do not live up to their rep as being agressive. To experts say this but I would not want to put that to a test.

We need them so live and let live.

Almost There
12-25-2007, 12:21
I have yet to hike the AT in the warm weather months without being stung by hornets or yellow jackets or both. An average of 250 people a year in the US die from insect bites and stings. An average of 12 a year die from venomous snake bites .

In 2006 camped by the Pedlar Creek Bridge, we had seen a note the day before that there was a hornet's nest going over a bridge. We thought we had already crossed said bridge. Going over the bridge the gal I had hiked with was following behind me jumping up and down on the suspension bridge and as I cam off of it I got stung three times by angry hornets, quickly figured out that this was the bridge that the note had been written about!:eek:

Pedaling Fool
12-25-2007, 12:24
This is how I got over my fear of Rattlesnakes, it also works pretty good, if you suffer from global-warming hysteria.
http://www.solcomhouse.com/yellowstone.htm

Merry Christmas.

rafe
12-25-2007, 12:25
The bear and the rattler were a treat. Freaking stinging insects were the bane of my hike this summer. And chiggers! Yuck!

Painted Turtle
12-25-2007, 12:28
The bear and the rattler were a treat. Freaking stinging insects were the bane of my hike this summer. And chiggers! Yuck!


Diddo!

People fear the wrong things.

ofthearth
12-25-2007, 14:06
You need to back off a bit,pal.The man did not express an obsessive
fear of snakes but he did point out the fact that the venom can leave
disasterous consequences.

It was useful information for people who might have messed with
a snake but now may just be a little more cautious and decide to
leave them alone.

Personally I have encountered a few snakes in the wild including the one
that I stepped on and have not been biten.Doesn't mean that I will stop
looking for them and I will always leave them alone if I see one.

Anyone who has not seen the Discovery Channel's "Venom" series needs
to check it out.Also,thanks,Tater,for the link to the site-it was quite
informative.

Peace to all and Merry Christmas!
Oldfivetango

Thanks oldfivetango,
Agreed and well said. Useful info.

ofthearth

highway
12-25-2007, 17:27
...

As far As Cotton Mouths (water maccasons) go both Steve Erwin and Jeff Corwin have done specials on how non-agressive these snakes are. That they do not live up to their rep as being agressive. To experts say this but I would not want to put that to a test.

We need them so live and let live.

Well, My experience has been that "they" are wrong!!

BigStu
12-25-2007, 17:37
As far As Cotton Mouths (water maccasons) go both Steve Erwin and Jeff Corwin have done specials on how non-agressive these snakes are.

Suggesting Steve Irwin as a model of risk assessment is a little wide of the mark, don't you think ?

highway
12-25-2007, 20:01
...

As far As Cotton Mouths (water maccasons) go both Steve Erwin and Jeff Corwin have done specials on how non-agressive these snakes are. That they do not live up to their rep as being agressive. To experts say this but I would not want to put that to a test.

We need them so live and let live.

The more I think about your statement, I am compelled to ask, "Are you really sure 'they' said that"?

Colter
12-25-2007, 21:07
I'm merely saying IF YOU ARE BITTEN you will lose that part of your body..

Even if bitten it looks to me that a person is likely to recover quite well (http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2143.htm)

* Deaths secondary to snake bites are rare. With the proper use of antivenin, they are becoming rarer still. The national average has been less than 4 deaths per year for the last several years.
* Local tissue destruction rarely contributes to long-term morbidity. Occasionally, skin grafting is required to close a defect from fasciotomy, but wounds requiring fasciotomy to reduce compartment pressures from muscle edema are infrequent.
* Data gathered in a 5-year retrospective chart review from the University of Tennessee Medical Center at Knoxville (UTMCK), a level-I trauma center, focused on 25 bites. Of these, 4 required fasciotomy and 2 subsequently needed split-thickness skin grafting. The average length of stay was 3.2 days. No deaths occurred, and morbidity was limited to the local wounds.

Painted Turtle
12-26-2007, 12:40
The more I think about your statement, I am compelled to ask, "Are you really sure 'they' said that"?

Yes it even showed them trying to get the CototnMouth to strike and it wouldn't. But it seems my sudle sarcasim did not get through to some. Read again.

Painted Turtle
12-26-2007, 12:43
Of course my utterly deplorable spelling matched with my poor typing probably did not help! :)

Lugnut
12-26-2007, 13:56
The more I think about your statement, I am compelled to ask, "Are you really sure 'they' said that"?

I saw the Jeff Corwin episode. He said it and demonstrated it also with a fake gloved hand. Must not have ben 100% sure since he didn't use his real hand. :D

Painted Turtle
12-26-2007, 14:01
I saw the Jeff Corwin episode. He said it and demonstrated it also with a fake gloved hand. Must not have ben 100% sure since he didn't use his real hand. :D

Thats the one. Also one must consider that the snake may have been having a good day. What if he wasn't?????

envirodiver
12-27-2007, 11:09
People in some churches handle rattlesnakes, copperheads and cottonmouths as part of their religion. That really doesn't make me feel better about a lack of aggression in these snakes.

rafe
12-27-2007, 11:16
People in some churches handle rattlesnakes, copperheads and cottonmouths as part of their religion. That really doesn't make me feel better about a lack of aggression in these snakes.

But it sort of confirms my general sentiments concerning religion. :D

envirodiver
12-27-2007, 12:06
But it sort of confirms my general sentiments concerning religion. :D

Halleluyah...CAN I GET AN AMEN?

hamilton86
12-30-2007, 11:28
so what are the odd of waking up to one in your sleeping bag ha, because thats the only thing that makes me nervous.

rafe
12-30-2007, 11:32
so what are the odd of waking up to one in your sleeping bag ha, because thats the only thing that makes me nervous.

Approximately zero, if you sleep in a tent.

SouthMark
12-30-2007, 11:34
so what are the odd of waking up to one in your sleeping bag ha, because thats the only thing that makes me nervous.

Pretty much zero even if you are sleeping cowboy style.

SouthMark
12-30-2007, 11:35
Oh, but I have had a skunk get in my bag in the smokies. Would have preferred a snake.

Smile
12-30-2007, 12:01
Now that I think about it I prefer the skunk.
Right there with ya! :)

mudhead
12-30-2007, 12:03
Now that I think about it, there may be enough alcohol in the world to make her look good, but I can't drink it all at one sitting.

Lone Wolf
12-30-2007, 12:06
Who'd you steal that one from Wolf ?, the mouth of the South? It can't be original your not that sharp after karaoke night at Dots. :)

made it up myself. who is mouth of the south? karaoke is thursdays. i don't do karaoke

weary
12-30-2007, 12:10
Use a camera to get over your fear. You will be so busy trying to get a good pic you won't be scared.
The Sarge is right. I tried without success to get a good snake photo on my walk home a few years ago.

However, don't get over all your fear. A snake bite is not a fun thing. Just use a bit of caution even when taking pictures.

Most trail fears disappear after a while. Fear of snake bites is a little like the fear of getting hurt by a falling tree. It certainly can and has happened. But after a few hours, days, years and it hasn't happened, you stop thinking about it.

Snakes help reduce the fear. Snakes mostly are as scared of us, as we are of them. That's why they are so hard to see and photograph.

Weary

mudhead
12-30-2007, 12:15
I lived in FL for awhile, when I first got there I was nervous about snakes.

I forgot snakes as I was too busy looking out for fire ants.

The Mechanical Man
12-30-2007, 15:01
Snakes are our friends on the trail.

SteveJ
12-30-2007, 16:17
Snakes are our friends on the trail.

Yep! Especially when they're both 4 feet long and you don't see them as you walk by!

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17785&catid=member&imageuser=6309

(I walked by this log, completely unaware, then heard Scott yell - "Hey, dad - look!")

The Mechanical Man
12-30-2007, 16:35
This could be a poor excuse for a "Lead Blazer" from the city, to get out his weapon.........


I just get out my camera. :)

emerald
12-30-2007, 17:58
Yep! Especially when they're both 4 feet long and you don't see them as you walk by!

I couldn't help but notice both color phases are represented in your photo.

mudhead
12-30-2007, 18:05
Some kind of observant. I chalked it up to shadow. Thanks for picking that up, and for mentioning it.

emerald
12-30-2007, 18:37
Sometimes those of us who are mindful of the finer points make ourselves useful.;) Others who see us as nothing more than PITAs who are never satisfied may want to take note.:D

SteveJ
12-30-2007, 19:06
I couldn't help but notice both color phases are represented in your photo.

I wasn't well-versed enough on rattlers to recognize them as being rattlers because the 2 color phases confused me. Another hiker walked up as we were standing there and confirmed my impression that they were rattlers (we didn't get close enough to see the end of the tails :o ). I learned about the color phases upon coming home and doing a 'net search.....they were curled up together and didn't move as our group of 4 and the other hiker walked by.....

Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-30-2007, 19:58
Sometimes those of us who are mindful of the finer points make ourselves useful.;) Others who see us as nothing more than PIAs who are never satisfied may want to take note.:Dhttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17785
Note the shades of gray in this snake :D