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Former Admin
09-14-2002, 10:51
How important are maps to you while hiking the AT?

Jumpstart
09-14-2002, 11:22
We used the entire AT map set (sold by the ATC) for our thru-hike, and found them extremely helpful, not only for the elevation profile (which I have to concede, often seemed incorrect when you were actually HIKING it), but we also used it when we wanted to step off the trail and explore other areas around us, to find water sources that weren't always in Wingfoot (especially helpful for New York), and to get an overall sense of what every day would be bringing us.

We encountered quite a few thru-hikers who didn't invest in the maps, and consequently were ALWAYS peering over our shoulder or asking if they could "take a peek when we were done with that" to see elevation profile, etc. It got to be irritating pretty quickly...(especially when we were packed up and ready to go, and just waiting for the return of our map) but in trying to preserve trail harmony we never made a fuss about it. Just something to think about for those who are not considering them....(also, I have the complete set numbered and in order from South to North, if anyone would be interested in purchsing it at a discount from the ATC price)...

Singletrack
09-14-2002, 14:08
I carried maps on my thru hike, using a bump box, to recieve the next set. You really do not need them, but they made my hike alot more fun. I am a map person. I like maps. Plus, it gave me someting to look at and read on those lonely evenings.

highway
09-15-2002, 08:34
AT users should be extremely appreciative that the AT is clearly (?)marked with white blazes, divergent trails marked in blue and its even marked where the intersection of a divergent trail is approaching and that you have the luxury of discussing whether to even use maps or not.

Its not the case on the CDT where map & compass is as needed as raingear. In some parts there is no trail at all, seldom is there any explanation for divergent trails-which may or usually may NOT be on the map- and the few CDT signs may-like other backpackers you'll see- be days apart.

I cant wait to try it. But I'll still take map & compass. Thats a habit I doubt I'll break!

SGT Rock
09-15-2002, 10:34
Hey Jumpstart!

How Much?

Jumpstart
09-15-2002, 11:19
Hi Sgt Rock,

The ATC web site sells them for $189 for non-members (the price we paid) and $150 for memebers...we'd let the whole set go for like $100 bucks, including the book for Maine..email me privately if you're interested and we can set it up...

Jumpstart

Hammock Hanger
09-27-2002, 18:44
Maps are imoportsant. Not to mention great fun to have. HH

Trail Yeti
10-07-2002, 14:24
I didn't use maps until VT, and from there on I used them. I usually bought them for the elevation profile...but now I have a better reason.
Me and my partner were hiking along N of Gorham, in fact we were almost to Gentian Pond Lean To, when she got stung by a bee or a hornet (we're not sure which). Normally, this isn't a big deal, sure it hurts but that's it right? Wrong, my girlfriend happens to be allergic. So we keep hiking until the shelter, going slowly for obvious reasons. When we get there her hand is swollen to twice its size, the swelling is moving up her wrist, she has broken out in hives everywhere, and she is itchy all over, also, her eyes were getting puffy. So we throw some Benadryl down her throat and just in case, I go to get her Epi pen out of her pack. Guess what? That's right, somehow, somewhere, the Epi pen has gone MIA (missing in action). Oh sh.. not good. It is now obvious (even though its only been 10 minutes since we sat down) that we need to get off trail and to a hospital. So I pull out my MAPS!!! And find out the blue blaze right next to the shelter leads to a road, and its 3 miles....a lot shorter than backtracking on the AT. So off we go, the blue blaze runs into a forest service road, we find some people picking blueberries (after only a mile, thankfully) and they give us a ride to the emergency room. Full recovery, living happily everafter and all that jazz.
So I know this is really long, but THAT is the reason you need maps.
The books are fine, but when you need detail on roads, terrain etc..nothing beats a map. I will not do a long distance hike again w/out a map....
Yeti

Weeknd
10-08-2002, 11:17
Great example Yeti. Glad she is OK. I agree that emergency "replans" are probably the most important reason for maps on the AT (at least in the south, my only AT experience).

I might add though that maps are very helpful (if not essential) non-emergency replans. Numerous times I have used a map to change my trip plans (maybe I should have planned better, like SGT Rocks military attack plans). This June our maps allowed us to add some miles and interest to our trip on the move and helped us find a camping spot not in the guide book.

I also enjoy just messing with the map and compass to try to figure things out from overlooks. For me it adds to the experience.

Weeknd

Kerosene
10-08-2002, 12:56
Even with the exhaustive planning that goes into military actions, the unexpected is to be expected. Having up-to-date maps available is instrumental to having soldiers adjust plans on-the-fly and act with some level of reasonable independence.

I made good use of my trail map last Fall. I had just left Sam Moore Shelter heading north to Snickers Gap when I encountered a teenage girl with a tiny bookbag-type daypack hiking south. I asked her where she was heading and she said her folks house in Bluemont. She had been dropped off in Snickers Gap by a friend and was just enjoying an afternoon walk. Fortunately, I recalled seeing Bluemont on my map just northeast of Snickers Gap, and I also knew that the next road crossing to the south was about 15 miles. I convinced her that she was walking the wrong way. In retrospect, she could have died of hypothermia that evening if she hadn't found shelter and warmth.

Of course, as a computer science & geography major, I just love maps. But they can be useful even on the relatively narrow ridges of the central AT where civilization is never really very far away.

Jack Tarlin
10-25-2002, 17:23
Nobody with any sense goes into the backcountry for 6 hours, let alone 6 months, without the best current map of the area they'll be visiting, and, needless to say the ability to read and use the map they're carring.

Whether it's to know, or to keep track of where you are; for use in an emergency (for your own use or to assist others); to pinpoint the location of lost, injured or otherwise at risk hikers; to assist search, rescue, or law enforcement personnel; for use when you need to get outtta the woods and back to a road or civilization as soon as possible, for whatever reason; to locate additional water sources than the ones immediately adjacent to the Trail; to plan your daily itinerary and hiking schedule; to help plan your food needs for each section depending on the terrain involved; to figure out where it'd be wise to have friends from home join you on your hike, and where they shouldn't; to help pick out where you want to end the day, pitch your tent, see a sunset; to help you plan your day so you get the worst part of the day's hiking over early on, while you're fresh and it's not too hot yet; to help plan your day so you don't end your day with a monster uphill; and on and on. There are all sorts of things Trail maps are good for. However, there's one main reason to carry them: Only a fool goes out into the backcountry without one.

Omar
10-30-2002, 20:12
Map buffs should check out the Historic USGS Maps at the UNH DIMOND LIBRARY. They have a collection of awesome "antique" topo maps. Get to the Monson maps via the following link:

http://docs.unh.edu/towns/MonsonMaineMapList.htm

Omar,
"You're young 'til you die"

Ridge
11-17-2004, 00:20
Maps of the AT help somewhat. I mainly carry them in case of an emergency, to find roads, towns, trails, etc.

Jaybird
11-17-2004, 06:43
the maps are good for reference..

BUT, the A.T. is marked so well & so well defined (let alone the numbers of people out there for six-plus months)...it's almost impossible the get off the the trail (unless on purpose). :D






p.s. (i take the Data Book!) :D

The Solemates
11-17-2004, 10:07
I love maps. like to read em, mess with em, etc.

that said, i didnt carry a single map the whole length of the AT. just not needed. a weight trade off.

Skyline
11-17-2004, 12:10
I always carried the map for the section I was hiking. For all the reasons Jack mentioned.

If hiking in a place I know intimately, like Shenandoah or Grayson, I don't often carry maps. But anyplace else, definitely.

For weight consideration, I did not carry any guidebooks, Data Book, Wingfoot, or Companion. Instead, I photocopied the relevant parts from each plus the elevation profile from the map, cut-and-pasted (the old fashioned way, with scissors and glue) to a single sheet for what I figured would be a day's distance. Then made a photocopy of THAT on more durable paper. So for say, five days, I only carried five sheets of paper--with the one I needed that day in my pocket in a ziploc for ease of referral. The other sheets stayed in my pack in the same ziploc as my other paperwork until needed. Sometimes the text for a day's hike would spill over to the other side of the sheet, sometimes not. If I didn't stick to the exact estimate of what a day's hike would be (happened a lot!)--not a big deal--just get out the next sheet mid-day.

It's a lot of pre-hike prep work, but better to save weight this way than to do without the maps IMO.

c.coyle
11-17-2004, 21:07
Like a lot of things, it depends on your comfort level. There are lots of things you can carry that you may never need - map, compass, first aid kit, knife, fire starter, whistle, etc., etc. For 99 out of 100 hikes on the AT, you aren't going to need them. But, if the right thing goes wrong ...

Papa Razzi
11-17-2004, 22:37
I'm the type who can pore over a map for hours. Sure, on the AT your route is largely predetermined. But I still enjoying soaking in a map's details and exploring its possibilities. A good map can also serve as either a window into the future or a review of the past. Surely I'm not the only one who's relived a favorite trip by pulling out a map some winter evening and retracing the route I followed way back when. But then again, competing in orienteering meets twice a month or so may slightly bias my opinion towards maps :)

Alligator
11-18-2004, 15:10
I'm the type who can pore over a map for hours. Sure, on the AT your route is largely predetermined. But I still enjoying soaking in a map's details and exploring its possibilities. A good map can also serve as either a window into the future or a review of the past. Surely I'm not the only one who's relived a favorite trip by pulling out a map some winter evening and retracing the route I followed way back when. But then again, competing in orienteering meets twice a month or so may slightly bias my opinion towards maps :)I'm with you Saint. I don't remember all the details of my trips, but when I pull out the maps, a lot more comes to mind: miles covered, campsites, break rests, views, etc.

bearbait2k4
11-18-2004, 16:28
I think maps can be a great help on the AT, or any other trail, for that matter.

They usually can aid you in finding your pace on the trail, and are a great help if you ever get yourself into an emergency situation that involves getting off the trail.

I usually don't use them, but would probably look into getting some kind of area maps on my next trip.

bearbait2k4
11-18-2004, 16:32
You can usually buy detailed state maps for 5-6 bucks each. Combine that with a good data book and you won't need to spend $150+ on a set of AT maps....for those who are thrifty.

swamp dawg
11-20-2004, 21:31
Maps are not really needed on the AT but they are vital to your journey. It is good to know position on the trail for all sort of reasons. I might add do not put much faith in the profiles because they can mess up your mind.
Life is good........Swamp Dawg

weary
11-20-2004, 22:02
Maps are not really needed on the AT but they are vital to your journey. It is good to know position on the trail for all sort of reasons. I might add do not put much faith in the profiles because they can mess up your mind.
Life is good........Swamp Dawg

Well, for a few miles anyway. Most of us quickly figure out that the contour interval hides all those PUDS. And that the height of mountains is exaggerated so it doesn't all look like a gentle wavy line. Of course if you carry your own maps rather than looking over someone's shoulder, you could read the map legends and directions before starting to hike, thus the learning curve would be reduced.

Weary

fiddlehead
06-22-2005, 23:28
I once saw a hiker seemingly studying his profile map in the shelter the night before hitting Roan Mt. In the morning, he got to the next road crossing and quit the trail and headed home. The profile map (elevation) scared the hike out of him.

I would rather be surprised with my days unfolding than always knowing where i will be and what's coming up. Of course, having already done the AT, i only carry the data book.
I did get lost pretty bad in the Smokies once when i was carrying a map because i was in a different ravine (started out looking for water) than i thought and ended up spending a day lost. I think if i wouldn't have made the mistake (there is no way for traingulation in some of the steep ravines in the foggy smokies usually), if i wouldn't have felt the confidence because i had a map along.
I think perhaps the Delorme Gazeteer maps would be better than the ATC maps because they show a much bigger range and the AT corrider is well marked with the white blazes of course. (of course you'd have to buy 13 of them to have the whole trail) ( i don't think you'd need WV) anyway, that's my 2 cents on AT maps.
Of course western USA hiking is a lot different as you are often away from trails, or marked trails anyway. Good map reading skills are really needed there. Perhaps you can hone these skills on the AT first. but Tringulation is a lot easier when you are in a more Alpine environment compared to the "Green Tunnel" of the AT.
I do think a small compass is a good idea on the AT, just because i often forget which way i came into the shelter the night before and have found myself going the wrong way already.
to each his own

superman
06-23-2005, 07:12
The AT is the only trail that I didn't use maps on. My primary guide was the data book. My pace is so constant that I know what time I'll be getting to the resupply road or the water source. The AT is so well blazed and marked with signs that it's easy to follow and know where you are on it. When we got to Maine Tex found that he needed to go home. He gave me his maps which told me that he wasn't coming back. I looked at the maps a couple times but realized it was a waste of my time and information I didn't need. Then I was hiking down a mountain and there was Tex coming up. He'd done a flip flop when he came back to the trail. He'd bought replacement maps of Maine. To me using maps on the AT is like wearing both a belt and suspenders.

Brock
06-23-2005, 13:15
Nobody with any sense goes into the backcountry for 6 hours, let alone 6 months, without the best current map of the area they'll be visiting, and, needless to say the ability to read and use the map they're carring.
Or you can take the Onstar for the trail... aka Baltimore Jack :) (I hear they are making a smaller model?)

weary
06-23-2005, 18:29
How important are maps to you while hiking the AT?
Maps are like air bags in an automobile. They are only rarely "needed" but most find air bags pretty critical on those admittedly rare occasions.

Maps have a secondary value, of course, for those of us with a bit of curiosity about the country we are walking through. I like to know the names of adjacent hills, where roads lead to, the names of lakes, and other features.

Weary

Buckingham
07-10-2005, 23:46
I can get lost in my own backyard, so yes, I find maps to be very helpfull.

jackiebolen
07-11-2005, 00:01
I didn't use maps and I didn't anticipate needing them on the AT. As I suspected, they were not that helpful. That being said, I would have a quick look at other people's if they had them. The elevation profiles could be handy to know what kind of day you were in for, but often I'd rather just hike and take it as it came.

Jack Tarlin
07-11-2005, 01:44
A thru-hiker, if nothing else, should be self-sufficient. Depending on other people,or taking for granted that you'll always have the opportunity to take advantage of other folks and what they're equipped with, is generally a bad mindset. One wouldn't depend on other hikers for food, shelter, clothing, and so on....assuming that when you want to look at a map, there ll always be someone around to lend you theirs....well, this is not only wrong, and not only the wrong attitude to adopt regarding self-sufficiency (never mind respect for your fellow hikers) but it can be dangerous as well. In an emergency situation, such as an injury, bad weather, unexpected reason to leave the Trail in a hurry, etc.------in an emergency situation, time is often critical. If you're sitting on your ass for two hours waiting for someone to come along whose forsight and preparedness you can conveniently mooch off of, well this seems careless to say the least. A map is only any good if you have it on your person and are perpared to use it. Assuming you can always use somebody else's is not a good philosophy. One wouldn't do this with any other piece of gear or equipment; maps are no different.

Nightwalker
07-11-2005, 02:56
You don't really need maps on most well-maintained trails. I just carry them because I like 'em so much.

gsingjane
07-11-2005, 06:27
One good reason to carry maps is that children love them. I don't know about other people's kids, but mine definitely want and need to know what's ahead of us on a particular day. And a casual "we'll take it as it comes" doesn't seem to do it for them! It may be just a hiking version of "are we there yet?" but my kids really like to see what elevation changes and landmarks are ahead of us on any given day; taking it more free-form seems to result in (even) more whining, somehow.

Jane in CT

CynJ
09-27-2005, 16:06
I love maps! In our house I am the Queen of the Map! Or the Master Navigator as I call myself.

Maps do more then just point the way - a good map will show you things you would miss otherwise. I love finding surprises here and there when hiking.

And thanks to Sgt. Rocks wonderful site with its compass lesson I am finally learning the proper way to use a compass and map together.:banana

Dances with Mice
09-27-2005, 18:00
I love maps! In our house I am the Queen of the Map! Or the Master Navigator as I call myself.

Maps do more then just point the way - a good map will show you things you would miss otherwise. I love finding surprises here and there when hiking.

And thanks to Sgt. Rocks wonderful site with its compass lesson I am finally learning the proper way to use a compass and map together.:bananaJust don't buy a Tate brand compass.

wyclif
01-22-2006, 23:30
One thing a lot of hikers could use is a beginner's class on the use of a map and compass. It really could mean the difference between getting out of a jam or not. I'd like to see the ALDHA do some sort of seminar on it at a Gathering soon.

Heater
01-23-2006, 01:29
One thing a lot of hikers could use is a beginner's class on the use of a map and compass. It really could mean the difference between getting out of a jam or not. I'd like to see the ALDHA do some sort of seminar on it at a Gathering soon.

Here's one.

http://www.gpsnuts.com/myGPS/GPS/Tutorials/Maps/maps.htm :D

wyclif
01-23-2006, 01:43
That's a good one.

I also think this one still has some legs:

http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/manual/mapcompass.shtml

Vi+
02-05-2006, 18:08
I intended to detail several reasons I haven't read yet why I don’t feel the need to use the ATC map on the AT unless I think I might detour using side trails.

Then I read the authoritative, “Nobody with any sense goes into the backcountry ... without the best current map ...” and “... Only a fool goes out into the backcountry without one.” (Post #11)

I won’t bother elaborating upon my initial idea. Why would one waste valuable time reading the writings of someone identified as a fool, with no sense?

There apparently is no need to read more, so, no need to write further on this topic.

Zzzzdyd
02-05-2006, 18:30
I think this guy only used "Road Maps" and not the entire hike ?
Didn't he mostly just talk to other hikers from the various hiking clubs
about the trail ahead ?

Is it against some self-sufficient rule to ask another hiker or local for
directions and insight about the trail, etc., as one meets them ?
Sheese I am looking forward to this part of my hike a lot !!

I love maps with a passion, but the weight and expense seem to
much for my taste. Besides I like a little 'adventure' when I play outside.

:banana

Zzzzdyd
02-05-2006, 18:47
sorry bout that ........:o

ed bell
02-05-2006, 18:49
I intended to detail several reasons I haven't read yet why I don’t feel the need to use the ATC map on the AT unless I think I might detour using side trails.

Then I read the authoritative, “Nobody with any sense goes into the backcountry ... without the best current map ...” and “... Only a fool goes out into the backcountry without one.” (Post #11)

I won’t bother elaborating upon my initial idea. Why would one waste valuable time reading the writings of someone identified as a fool, with no sense?

There apparently is no need to read more, so, no need to write further on this topic.

If you don't agree with post #11 then explain why. Last time I checked there was a free exchange of ideas going on here. I have certain areas that I hike/backpack in where I do not feel the need to have a map with me. To imply that you have useful input, but are withholding it because of another's post is not in the spirit of an open forum. Why comment at all?

weary
02-05-2006, 18:53
I intended to detail several reasons I haven't read yet why I don’t feel the need to use the ATC map on the AT unless I think I might detour using side trails.

Then I read the authoritative, “Nobody with any sense goes into the backcountry ... without the best current map ...” and “... Only a fool goes out into the backcountry without one.” (Post #11)

I won’t bother elaborating upon my initial idea. Why would one waste valuable time reading the writings of someone identified as a fool, with no sense?

There apparently is no need to read more, so, no need to write further on this topic.
Jack is a bit hyperbolic at times, but he's essentially right. Maps have many interesting uses on the trail. But among the most important is safety. Sure, it's fun to live dangerously. And it's true. Situations of real danger are rare. But when they happen most find it nice to have a map close at hand, and at least rudimentary knowledge about how to use same.

Part of the fun of a thru hike -- and all long distance backpacking, for that matter -- is the sense of self sufficiency that comes from carrying all you need to explore wild areas without seeking help.

Weary

rocketsocks
06-08-2012, 15:22
I would bring a map for many reasons,all of which entails finding my location on the trail in relation to,Help,Food,Home,and just because I like maps.

coach lou
06-08-2012, 15:44
I would bring a map for many reasons,all of which entails finding my location on the trail in relation to,Help,Food,Home,and just because I like maps.

Socks speaks sense! I'm a map geek myself, and I don't get lost! Being able to read one and rely on one gives you many options in recreation and emergencies. I could/do spend hours studying them. When wandering through the boonies where I am is the last thing I worry about, I know where I am.

rocketsocks
06-08-2012, 16:03
Socks speaks sense! I'm a map geek myself, and I don't get lost! Being able to read one and rely on one gives you many options in recreation and emergencies. I could/do spend hours studying them. When wandering through the boonies where I am is the last thing I worry about, I know where I am.Me too coach,always tell the wife "I'm half blood Hound,never been lost,just temporarily misplaced",just like me POP! LOL

coach lou
06-08-2012, 16:05
Me too coach,always tell the wife "I'm half blood Hound,never been lost,just temporarily misplaced",just like me POP! LOL

I remember a story about Daniel Boone sayin' "he'd never been lost, just a tad bewildered"

moongoddess
06-08-2012, 16:21
You don't really need maps on most well-maintained trails.

The problem, of course, is that a well-maintained trail can literally turn into an unmaintained trail overnight, courtesy of severe storms, rockslides or mudslides, wildfires, etc. Today in the Colorado Trail subforum an announcement was posted that a large segment of the Colorado Trail has just recently become literally impassible due to a huge blowdown of trees; thruhikers have to leave the well-marked main trail and do a long detour involving less well-marked side trails and poorly-marked gravel roads to get around the obstruction. Anyone who was out there without a decent set of maps and who was counting on just following the well-marked trail is going to be screwed. There's no reason something similar couldn't happen on the AT (or any other trail, for that matter).

rocketsocks
06-08-2012, 16:25
I remember a story about Daniel Boone sayin' "he'd never been lost, just a tad bewildered"Daniel Boone was a man,such a big man!

Biggie Master
06-08-2012, 20:15
I have a map of the United States... Actual size. It says, "Scale: 1 mile = 1
mile." I spent last summer folding it. I also have a full-size map of the world.
I hardly ever unroll it. People ask me where I live, and I say, "E6".
-- Steven Wright


Like one or two others have posted, I usually photocopy the section I will be hiking and keep it close at hand. I pull it out at each rest break and check my "surroundings" just to keep my internal compass calibrated.

hikerboy57
06-08-2012, 20:34
Knowing where you are is an essential part of getting lost in the natural world.

Sarcasm the elf
06-08-2012, 21:29
Maps have saved my arse several times while section hiking. They let me know where I am so I can keep pace to meet up with my ride, they have let me rearrange my pick-up plans when I have had to bail for various reasons, they have even helped me find an available water source after hiking bone dry for several hours (I was very happy I had a map that day.)

hikerboy57
06-08-2012, 21:39
Theyre also great for changing plans with chsnging weather.one year i started from liberty springs intending totraverse to crawford notch.weather got a biy hairy coming down lafayette so i dropped down into the pemi and although it rained for two more days i had a much better time thsn if i had stayed on the AT.

Amanita
06-08-2012, 21:45
I agree that when you need to change plans fast, maps are where it's at. Medical emergency, alternative resupply, change of plans on a section, bad weather bypass around an exposed peak ect ect.

But I will admit that the most useful part of maps is when I'm on the phone with my ride trying to explain where they need to go to pick me up. Often state maps don't mark all the little roads or show well where the trail is, and even when I leave a photocopy of my map they usually forget to use it.

Being a section hiker, I do spend a lot more time getting on/off the trail, which maps are pretty crucial for.

hikehunter
06-08-2012, 23:24
The Boy Scouts have some very good training. I learned as a boy and I still use it today. A good map and compass is like insurance great to have and not need than to need and not have.

coach lou
06-08-2012, 23:41
The insurance of being able to rely on map & compass, for situations & emergencies is important. Using them as tools to navigate through unknown territory with confidance and the actual sport of it is very fulfilling and FUN.

rocketsocks
06-09-2012, 00:00
Part of the price for being able to navigate entails practicing with a compass,and you don't have to be out side to do it either,if you get a map of your area at home(I have one of my township,that's what we call em here in these parts)you can lay out a coarse,plot it on the map,and then in your minds eye visualize some of the things you'll see,(turning right and there's Mr. jones house)follow that coarse,start small at first,just a polygon shape,(or something other than four 90 degree angles) around a high school football track,as you get better,you can plot longer and harder(more involved)courses,there no different really,just more bearings to work out,it's fun....:sun

fiddlehead
06-09-2012, 00:44
I'm OK with a map and compass.
BUT, in my travels I've come across too many times when it's foggy or rainy and just can't get any landmarks to use.
So, you end up guessing where you are.
Oftentimes you are right.
Sometimes not.
The GPS doesn't screw up however, so, I have learned they are more useful than a map.

Maps will be obsolete in a few more years. Not totally. Some old school adventurers will still carry them but they'll be the ones getting lost in a storm or poor visability.

Just sayin.
Hey don't blame me. I'm just pointing out the truth. I still own a sextant. (and know how to use it)........... (but I don't)

Sarcasm the elf
06-09-2012, 07:40
I'm OK with a map and compass.
BUT, in my travels I've come across too many times when it's foggy or rainy and just can't get any landmarks to use.
So, you end up guessing where you are.
Oftentimes you are right.
Sometimes not.
The GPS doesn't screw up however, so, I have learned they are more useful than a map.

Maps will be obsolete in a few more years. Not totally. Some old school adventurers will still carry them but they'll be the ones getting lost in a storm or poor visability.

Just sayin.
Hey don't blame me. I'm just pointing out the truth. I still own a sextant. (and know how to use it)........... (but I don't)

I don't disagree with you, but there will have to be major advances in battery technology before I entrust my safety on a hike to a GPS alone. On many occasions I have had the honor of lugging a dead GPS around on the trail.

I still bring my garmin when I'm hiking on poorly marked local trails where I need to make sure that I am within the trail corridor and not about to walk through someone's back yard. But for the A.T. I've decided to bring maps for now.

coach lou
06-09-2012, 08:35
I'm OK with a map and compass.
BUT, in my travels I've come across too many times when it's foggy or rainy and just can't get any landmarks to use.
So, you end up guessing where you are.
Oftentimes you are right.
Sometimes not.
The GPS doesn't screw up however, so, I have learned they are more useful than a map.

Maps will be obsolete in a few more years. Not totally. Some old school adventurers will still carry them but they'll be the ones getting lost in a storm or poor visability.

Just sayin.
Hey don't blame me. I'm just pointing out the truth. I still own a sextant. (and know how to use it)........... (but I don't)

I'm just a stubborn old-school adventurer myself. I carry a digital Camera, i have carried my Cell phone for my families peace of mind. It's GPS is not enabled. [another thread and can of worms!] As I said earlier. navigating through the boonies by map & compass is fun.

10-K
06-09-2012, 09:57
I love my GPS for non-AT hiking but I always carry a map if I'm hiking in one of the national forests around here.

The biggest drawback of a GPS for me is the little screen. I like being able to unfold a map and get the big picture. Of course you can extrapolate exactly where you are on the map with your GPS postion.

Odd Man Out
06-09-2012, 10:31
...The GPS doesn't screw up however, so, I have learned they are more useful than a map. Maps will be obsolete in a few more years. Not totally. Some old school adventurers will still carry them but they'll be the ones getting lost in a storm or poor visability. ....

In his gear book, Andrew Skurka writes about how a map and compass are far superior to GPS (for those who know how to use them). So at least one hiker with way more backcountry travel experience than I would tend to disagree.

10-K
06-09-2012, 10:55
The salient point in Skurka's comment is: "for those who know how to use them."

The thing a GPS will do is tell you *exactly where you are*. A map won't do that and if you don't know how to put a compass to the map and triangulate your position the best you can do is guess or say "we're somewhere around here". If you're really lost and can't triangulate you're just screwed.

My guess is that many people in the "I love maps." camp aren't nearly good enough with a map and compass to outperform a GPS.

If you have to pick between a map and compass or a GPS pick them both.

max patch
06-09-2012, 11:05
If (When!) I drop my map I know it won't break.

And my map has never needed batteries.

10-K
06-09-2012, 11:11
If (When!) I drop my map I know it won't break.

And my map has never needed batteries.

I carried a map of the BMT on my BMT thru and it got wet and tore to shreds because it wasn't waterproof, but my GPS is. :)

You just can't plan the uncertainty out of life no matter what, can you?

coach lou
06-09-2012, 11:15
I'm just a stubborn old-school adventurer myself. I carry a digital Camera, i have carried my Cell phone for my families peace of mind. It's GPS is not enabled. [another thread and can of worms!] As I said earlier. navigating through the boonies by map & compass is fun.

I really have fun Hiking, camping & fishin'!

rocketsocks
06-09-2012, 11:30
The salient point in Skurka's comment is: "for those who know how to use them."

The thing a GPS will do is tell you *exactly where you are*. A map won't do that and if you don't know how to put a compass to the map and triangulate your position the best you can do is guess or say "we're somewhere around here". If you're really lost and can't triangulate you're just screwed.

My guess is that many people in the "I love maps." camp aren't nearly good enough with a map and compass to outperform a GPS.

If you have to pick between a map and compass or a GPS pick them both.Yep,the old saying "It's a brave man that can put a X on the Ocean",comes to mind.True,we might not be able to fix a coordinate to + or - 1 meter,but probably not needed anyway,if I can tell where I am within ear shot or about 60 yards,or as far as I can see,thats all I need for the trail,If I could afford to buy a GPS,yep,I'd have one as well,cool tool indeed.

10-K
06-09-2012, 11:39
Just a correction to something I typed above.. My BMT maps were the Nat Geo maps and they are waterproof. It was my "BMT Guide to NC" that was not waterproof. I was using it rather than the maps because it was BMT specific and had much greater detail than the Nat Geo maps. It sucked when I let it get wet and the pages stuck together making it useless.

And to be fair, the BMT track on my GPS was not exactly right either. In the end I'm glad I had maps, guide and GPS because they all were useful at one time or another. If I had been forced to take only one it would have been the maps though...

Odd Man Out
06-09-2012, 11:44
The salient point in Skurka's comment is: "for those who know how to use them."

The thing a GPS will do is tell you *exactly where you are*. A map won't do that and if you don't know how to put a compass to the map and triangulate your position the best you can do is guess or say "we're somewhere around here". If you're really lost and can't triangulate you're just screwed.

My guess is that many people in the "I love maps." camp aren't nearly good enough with a map and compass to outperform a GPS.

If you have to pick between a map and compass or a GPS pick them both.

Actually, the primary point made by the pro-map camp is that while a GPS will tell you where you are, it can't tell you how to get to where you are going. Sure it tells you which direction you need to go, but it doesn't tell you that there might be a mountain or a canyon in the way. It doesn't tell you where a water source is. Of course it can tell you those things if the battery doesn't fail and it has a map built into it. Both take skill as evidenced by many stories of people getting lost and in trouble thinking their GPS was sufficient.

coach lou
06-09-2012, 11:51
I have a Nat Geo of SNP. On it has a graphic of available maps, it looked like the entire appalachian trail was covered, does anyone have this collection or have used one of the NON-National Park maps?

rocketsocks
06-09-2012, 12:01
I have a Nat Geo of SNP. On it was a graphic of available maps, it looked like the entire appalachian trail was covered, does anyone have this collection or have used one of the NON-National Park maps?Coach,I think your asking "Is the entire trail available on the Nat Geo series maps,Not sure.But I too have a few Nat Geo series maps of particular parks or sections of the trail,and they are wonderful,very good looking maps with shaded relief.

another reason I prefer maps GPS is when you Zoom-in,you lose the surrounding area,Obva,but I prefer to see where I going,or the bigger picture.

coach lou
06-09-2012, 12:23
Coach,I think your asking "Is the entire trail available on the Nat Geo series maps,Not sure.But I too have a few Nat Geo series maps of particular parks or sections of the trail,and they are wonderful,very good looking maps with shaded relief.

another reason I prefer maps GPS is when you Zoom-in,you lose the surrounding area,Obva,but I prefer to see where I going,or the bigger picture.

I am looking at the key right now....'Regional Trails Illustrated Titles'... avalible coverage appears to start at the Ga./NC line and continue to what looks like Harpers Ferry, there also appears to be coverage of some National forest areas to the emediate west of certain areas.

ChinMusic
06-09-2012, 12:27
For major trails like the AT I def do not carry paper maps. I have all the info I need for an emergency escape on my iPhone. I have apps/PDFs that contain all the other info I need.

I do like paper maps for planning purposes, but haven't found a need for them in the field. As fiddlehead said, paper maps and compass are going the way of the sextant. Modern technology just does so much more.

rocketsocks
06-09-2012, 12:39
For major trails like the AT I def do not carry paper maps. I have all the info I need for an emergency escape on my iPhone. I have apps/PDFs that contain all the other info I need.

I do like paper maps for planning purposes, but haven't found a need for them in the field. As fiddlehead said, paper maps and compass are going the way of the sextant. Modern technology just does so much more.
Noooooooooooooooooooooo! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!:(I just bought a new map the other day,eh eh eand it's already obsolete,ooooooh the Humanity.

hikerboy57
06-09-2012, 12:50
i like maps. occassionally ive run out of TP.

hikerboy57
06-09-2012, 12:50
and the batteries never die.

Jack Tarlin
06-09-2012, 18:08
How very odd to find yourself reading something you posted almost a decade ago (see Post #11, above). Just for the record, I wouldn't change a word of it. The only reason NOT to carry maps is to save a few dollars or even a smaller handful of grams. These are both lousy reasons. Bottom line is that EVERYONE on the A.T. relies constantly on trail maps and folks use them every day.......except on three quarters of these occasions, these people are relying on maps that were paid for and are being carried by other people. I last witnessed this being done at the 311 road crossing near Catawba, around 15 minutes ago. But, yeah, it happens every day.

hikehunter
06-10-2012, 00:12
What is heavier....paper map or GPS?? If my map is water proof I got a spare rain fly..... If the sun sends out a flare my map still will work....

ChinMusic
06-10-2012, 00:25
What is heavier....paper map or GPS?? If my map is water proof I got a spare rain fly..... If the sun sends out a flare my map still will work....

ZERO. I carry an iPhone anyway. Dual use you know. I know, I know, you can help start a fire with your map. It is dual as well.

If it is dark/rainy/cloudy/tree-covered/or just an area without identifiable features, I know exactly where I am with tech. You have to wait for conditions to clear/improve, or guess.

dla
06-10-2012, 11:02
Your poll is obviously anti-map. Too bad because noobs can get the wrong general impression.

Velvet Gooch
06-10-2012, 11:33
Ah, the impotence of maps. You have to roll the map up tightly before insertion; otherwise, it'll be all floppy and mostly useless

Pedaling Fool
06-10-2012, 11:51
Your poll is obviously anti-map. Too bad because noobs can get the wrong general impression.
I don't see how the poll is anti-map :confused: Especially since most have voted under the "I have used maps and they have been a big help" category.

BTW, who is Former Admin? According to his status he's a Guest, which I guess means he can't post. The only other posts I've seen from him are asking for opinions/experiences at various shelters.

max patch
06-10-2012, 13:52
BTW, who is Former Admin? According to his status he's a Guest, which I guess means he can't post. The only other posts I've seen from him are asking for opinions/experiences at various shelters.

Well, if you'd clean out your mailbox you'd know.

Pedaling Fool
06-10-2012, 14:08
Maybe one day I'll get around to it :D

FireInMyBones
06-10-2012, 14:32
I use a trail guide and USGS map at home for the planning stage and pocket profiles on the trail.

fiddlehead
06-10-2012, 16:13
In his gear book, Andrew Skurka writes about how a map and compass are far superior to GPS (for those who know how to use them). So at least one hiker with way more backcountry travel experience than I would tend to disagree.

Now I'd love to see how he navigates around here with the maps available. Tourist destinations are shown anyway.
Only road maps here in Phuket.

I don't have the same experience as Skurka but have been in situations where the fog was too great for the map to be of much use.
Sure, I could wait a few hours for it to lift, or camp there or something.
Or, I could get out my GPS and see that I was closer to that cliff than I had thought.

Certainly not knocking Andrew Skurka. The man and is adventures is impressive.
But, there are just too many advantages of the GPS over the map.
Sure you need a good one (that won't break when you drop it, or get it wet), and of course know how to use it.
Do a CDT hike or similar and you will learn. Take both map/compass and GPS with the topo maps installed.

Wonder what the military grunts would say these days?
I've been reading some books on the Viet Nam war and keep thinking that they could have done a lot more with a GPS.
I just can't picture those guys pulling out a map anymore. (certainly not to guess where they are exactly)

Times are a-changing folks.

hikerboy57
06-10-2012, 17:00
Is it a mistake to bring a map?
It might be a mistake not to.

douginky
06-10-2012, 17:39
...Take both map/compass and GPS with the topo maps installed.

...Wonder what the military grunts would say these days?

...Times are a-changing folks.

Yes, times are a-changing, but the military grunts these days will tell you exactly what you wrote - take both map/compass and GPS. And to develop basic land-nav (ie, map and compass) skills and to not rely solely on GPS. In other words, belt and suspenders.

coach lou
06-10-2012, 19:05
I'm just a stubborn old-school adventurer myself. I carry a digital Camera, i have carried my Cell phone for my families peace of mind. It's GPS is not enabled. [another thread and can of worms!] As I said earlier. navigating through the boonies by map & compass is fun.

This is all I can say on this matter..........................again.

rocketsocks
06-10-2012, 20:38
I'm reminded by a story that Bill Bryson tells us in his book "A walk in the woods",there are two people on top of Mt. Washington in NH,lost and tired.They call authorities for help,and when asked of there postition say,there position as North 44.27067 and West 71.30422 but have no idea exactly what that means.......Coordinates given are for the ex.only

quilteresq
06-10-2012, 20:57
Map buffs should check out the Historic USGS Maps at the UNH DIMOND LIBRARY. They have a collection of awesome "antique" topo maps. Get to the Monson maps via the following link:

http://docs.unh.edu/towns/MonsonMaineMapList.htm

Omar,
"You're young 'til you die"

Cool! Topo maps on line!

max patch
06-10-2012, 20:59
GPS? We're talking about the AT.

fiddlehead
06-10-2012, 21:00
And I have a friend who I travelled cross country with in my van back in '89.
We were in Wyoming and heading up to Glacier NP.
I wanted to catch some Zzs so handed him the compass (and the drivers seat) and told him to just keep heading north.
When I woke up, we were in CO.
He was an experienced hiker. (but thought that the silver side of the needle was the one pointing north)
So, which is worse? Not knowing what the numbers mean, or not knowing which way a compass points?
Ignorance is everywhere. That's not the point.

Pedaling Fool
06-10-2012, 21:10
And I have a friend who I travelled cross country with in my van back in '89.
We were in Wyoming and heading up to Glacier NP.
I wanted to catch some Zzs so handed him the compass (and the drivers seat) and told him to just keep heading north.
When I woke up, we were in CO.
He was an experienced hiker. (but thought that the silver side of the needle was the one pointing north)
So, which is worse? Not knowing what the numbers mean, or not knowing which way a compass points?
Ignorance is everywhere. That's not the point.Yeah, but if you had a GPS you wouldn't have such a great story :D You got to have some memories from that trip ;)

rocketsocks
06-10-2012, 21:18
I have a compass,and the Red needle points south,Truth!
and have never been able to figure out why?....little help here!

ChinMusic
06-10-2012, 21:38
GPS? We're talking about the AT.

In case of emer the you-are-here-function comes in handy when deciding on the quickest way out. I have it on my iPhone. Lovely feature.

ChinMusic
06-10-2012, 21:41
I wanted to catch some Zzs so handed him the compass (and the drivers seat) and told him to just keep heading north.
When I woke up, we were in CO.

Got GPS in all my autos too, but that is for another forum. All I can say is it makes cross country travel so much easier. Stupid turns are identified quickly, and not once I'm in the wrong state..........lol

cavediver256
06-10-2012, 21:50
In case of emer the you-are-here-function comes in handy when deciding on the quickest way out. I have it on my iPhone. Lovely feature. That reminds me of the time I stumbled upon a man and his wife who had just broken her ankle just over the summit of Levelland Mt. about 1.5 miles north of Neel Gap. It took me 3 different times with a 911 dispatcher and twice with her supervisor to explain that we were not on Blood Mt. and that they should send the rescue crews to Mountain Crossing parking lot and walk "north" through the breezeway and not to cross the highway and head up Blood Mt. He still seemed a little skeptical when we ended the conversation. I am not sure if the GPS coordinates would have helped in that situation. The one thing that concerns me with GPS is there are different formats in which the coordinates are displayed. It may have created more confusion than what was already occurring.... Use a map and compass, a GPS, a trail guide, the stars or any combination, but for Pete's sake, it pays to know where you are. It may only be the AT, but I don't think its a great idea to wander blindly onto any trail hoping nothing bad happens.

ChinMusic
06-10-2012, 22:07
I am not sure if the GPS coordinates would have helped in that situation.

If emer services can't/don't do coordinates, something is wrong.


The one thing that concerns me with GPS is there are different formats in which the coordinates are displayed. It may have created more confusion than what was already occurring....
This is the only weak spot. Two systems can be kinda close which can cause problems when relaying to another person. I was in the wild in Alaska trying to find a landing strip in the middle of nowhere. I was using one datum set and was 100ish yards off. My buddy luckily was using the other and walked right into it. Thing is a map would not have gotten me closer than the 100ish yards I was off.

If the datum set had me going to Kansas I would have known the coordinates were wrong immed.


Use a map and compass, a GPS, a trail guide, the stars or any combination, but for Pete's sake, it pays to know where you are. It may only be the AT, but I don't think its a great idea to wander blindly onto any trail hoping nothing bad happens.
On the AT, no way am I taking a map, not a chance. In some place like Alaska, damn straight, but I had a sat phone too..........

cavediver256
06-10-2012, 22:23
If emer services can't/don't do coordinates, something is wrong. This is the only weak spot. Two systems can be kinda close which can cause problems when relaying to another person. I was in the wild in Alaska trying to find a landing strip in the middle of nowhere. I was using one datum set and was 100ish yards off. My buddy luckily was using the other and walked right into it. Thing is a map would not have gotten me closer than the 100ish yards I was off. If the datum set had me going to Kansas I would have known the coordinates were wrong immed. On the AT, no way am I taking a map, not a chance. In some place like Alaska, damn straight, but I had a sat phone too.......... Funny thing is, I didn't have a map that day either, but I had been there enough times to know exactly where I was, and with out me being positively sure of where we were, I am almost positive the guys at the 911 center would have convinced me that we were on Blood Mountain and not Levelland. Truthfully, it was simply a day hike for me, out and back....had that been a multiple day hike in an unfamiliar area (even on the AT) I would have had at a minimum a compass, and topo map. I would have studied an available guide as well and possibly thrown in a copy of the pages that cover the section(s) I am hiking.

ChinMusic
06-10-2012, 23:43
Funny thing is, I didn't have a map that day either, but I had been there enough times to know exactly where I was, and with out me being positively sure of where we were, I am almost positive the guys at the 911 center would have convinced me that we were on Blood Mountain and not Levelland. Truthfully, it was simply a day hike for me, out and back....had that been a multiple day hike in an unfamiliar area (even on the AT) I would have had at a minimum a compass, and topo map. I would have studied an available guide as well and possibly thrown in a copy of the pages that cover the section(s) I am hiking.


There is an iPhone app for the AT that will tell you exactly where you are on the trail. It will tell you how many TRAIL MILES to various landmarks (shelters, roads, etc). There are a few places with recent relocations where it will be off due to the app map not being updated. Odds of the paper map being updated to the relocations is even less.

cavediver256
06-11-2012, 11:05
There is an iPhone app for the AT that will tell you exactly where you are on the trail. It will tell you how many TRAIL MILES to various landmarks (shelters, roads, etc). There are a few places with recent relocations where it will be off due to the app map not being updated. Odds of the paper map being updated to the relocations is even less.

I totally understand ChinMusic, and I agree....my point being, I don't care what method someone uses, we as responsible adults need to be dang sure we know where we are....just simply stating to a 911 operator, I am on the AT and I need help may delay that help getting to you in a timely manner.... ;)

I have served my time in the USMC and one of my other hobbies is cave diving ......I personally don't believe in putting all of my faith in one device/method....the whole two is one, one is none mentality....

Camping_Steve
06-11-2012, 11:35
I personally don't believe in putting all of my faith in one device/method....the whole two is one, one is none mentality....

I completely agree with this mentality, with the caveat that it depends on the hike. You can't screw around on the AT, and my phone doesn't always have service. That's why I intend on bringing my guide book with me whereever I go. Books and maps might be resistant to change, but at least they don't need a 3G connection.

ChinMusic
06-11-2012, 17:52
Books and maps might be resistant to change, but at least they don't need a 3G connection.
NONE of my AT apps or GPS apps require cell service for use on the trail. Download the map data prior to hitting the field.