View Full Version : Reason to carry maps and advice to parents
hammock engineer
10-09-2006, 19:24
I am taking a zero today to rest a hurting knee on my LT hike and wanted to pass along what happened to me yesterday. I was at Hazen's Notch Camp eating lunch around 1pm when a man walked up and asked if I had seen his 8 year old son. I said I hadn't and that I hiked in the the opposite direction as him. He said that his son run ahead of him back south on the trail. He left after I talked to him a minute. I ran into him about a mile later and he still didn't know where his son was. By this point we both decided that he must have missed the trail somewhere. Which is very easy right now with the leaves fallen. He said that his girl friend went into town for help. I circled one way off the trail and he went the other. I did a small loop and went back to the trail and to the road. It is only 1.5 miles from the camp to the road. I passed 2 vermont state troopers on the way down.
When I got to the road I saw another trooper in his car. He was having problems with his 2 GPS units in giving the search helicopter the location to start searching. We were able to use my trail map to help guide the helicopter to the right place. I helped searched a little bit. At this point it was after 3pm and there were only 2 dog teams there. When asked the trooper was still using my map an hour or 2 after I gave it to him. Luckly they found the boy around 6pm at a near pond. It was 30 degrees the night before and really cold after dark at around 6:30pm.
Just as they found him more seach and rescue teams just arrived.
Did my map save him, probibly not. But it sure helped. The hug from the dad and the hand shake and thanks from the Trooper made me glad I had it.
Moral of the story is parents don't let your kid run away from you in the woods.
Just Jeff
10-09-2006, 19:29
And make sure they have a whistle on them at all times, just in case they do.
Good story, HE. Glad you were there to help.
Moral of the story is parents don't let your kid run away from you in the woods.
Glad it was a happy ending. Unfortunately most parents who read this will be convinced to NEVER take their kids into the woods. We live in a culture of fear these days. Sad.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-09-2006, 19:47
God bless you, HE, for being willing to loan out your map. Kids are hard to keep in tow when hiking. Mine always wore a whistle and signal mirror combo that had a waterproof compartment for matches and a piece of fire starter.
I wish they still made an item I haven't seen in many years (it was available at army surplus stores) - it was a small helium canister that was halfway down in a dayglow orange punch-ball. There was a strap the kid put on their wrist that contained kite string attached to the ball. The kid would pull a tab and this allowed the helium to go into the ball making it rise - made finding a kid from the air pretty darn easy. Thank goodness we never needed it.
saimyoji
10-09-2006, 19:56
Good show HE. Kludos!
Did I use it right Sly? :D
Programbo
10-09-2006, 21:25
I wish they still made an item I haven't seen in many years (it was available at army surplus stores) - it was a small helium canister that was halfway down in a dayglow orange punch-ball.
:confused: ..I worked in an army surplus/camping/backpacking store for 11 years and don`t recall ever seeing this item....How long ago was it out?...It sounds like a great idea and if it`s off the market I may look into re-introducing it in some way
Skidsteer
10-09-2006, 21:41
God bless you, HE, for being willing to loan out your map. Kids are hard to keep in tow when hiking. Mine always wore a whistle and signal mirror combo that had a waterproof compartment for matches and a piece of fire starter.
I wish they still made an item I haven't seen in many years (it was available at army surplus stores) - it was a small helium canister that was halfway down in a dayglow orange punch-ball. There was a strap the kid put on their wrist that contained kite string attached to the ball. The kid would pull a tab and this allowed the helium to go into the ball making it rise - made finding a kid from the air pretty darn easy. Thank goodness we never needed it.
That is simultaneously the best and worst thing I have ever heard of.
Ya right?
I got the giggles thinking of a really small child pulling the ripcord of an accidentally over-inflated helium canister and.....
Well, you get the picture.
Good job, HE.
TJ aka Teej
10-09-2006, 21:45
Good job, HE.
I lost my oldest when he was 8 for about 20 minutes once in the Pemi Wilderness when he went off to water a tree. He hiked right back to the trail, crossed it, and started walking into the woods. After ten minutes, I hollered for him and he didn't answer, so I went in to where I thought he was and hollered some more... no answer. Then I heard his whistle and I hustled back to the trail and hollered... no answer. He blew his whistle three more times and I hurried toward him. He was near a running stream (thats why he stopped, he knew he hadn't crossed a stream) and the noise from the stream drowned out my hollering - he said he never heard me at all, and I had yelled the last time only about 200 feet away. But I heard his whistle loud and clear. Like Jeff says, make sure they carry that whistle - and know when to start blowing it.
Miss Janet
10-09-2006, 21:46
We have trouble around here all the time with the different "authorities" not having AT maps and often no clue about the trail. On many occaisions they have needed help from the trail clubs and hikers to locate places on the AT.
It would be an interesting idea to have people donate appropriate maps to the local authorities. A map carrying hiker will not always be available.
Any ideas how this might work? I am thinking that I could donate a set covering our area to the Unicoi County Sherrif's dept... and so on.
TJ aka Teej
10-09-2006, 21:52
It would be an interesting idea to have people donate appropriate maps to the local authorities. A map carrying hiker will not always be available.
Any ideas how this might work?
Fantastic idea, Miss Janet! I guess we'd have to find out first who would be responding to what section of trail - mulitiple sets would be needed for most areas, I think.
Good show HE. Kludos!
Did I use it right Sly? :D
Yeah man... Kludos! to HE!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-09-2006, 22:00
:confused: ..I worked in an army surplus/camping/backpacking store for 11 years and don`t recall ever seeing this item....How long ago was it out?...It sounds like a great idea and if it`s off the market I may look into re-introducing it in some wayI bought them back in the mid-1970's
I think every parent who takes their kids out in the woods needs to have the "what to do if you get lost" talk with them, and make sure it sticks. I took my 5 y/o son out on his 1st backpacking trip last month and right before we got to where we were going to camp, I asked him what he would do if he couldn't find me. He didn't know what he'd do. A few hours later I painted a vivid picture of what happens and what he should do. Probably too vivid because he got scared just thinking about it and started to cry. I felt bad about that, but later felt good about it because I know it got to him and what I told him to do will not be easily forgotten. It helps that there was a HIGHLY publicized search for a 3 y/o boy in my hometown a week or so before this trip, and he got to see the hundreds of people looking for the kid on TV.
I am confident that he would 1) stay put, 2) blow his whistle in bursts of 3 nonstop, 3)put on all his clothes if it was getting dark and cold, 4) ration his food and water and 5) be so scared of having to do all that that he would not let me out of his sight and get lost in the woods in the first place.
Bigben
Lucky ending. The kid could have been lost and eventually gone feral. Never could have re-housebroken their hatchling after that. Best thing to do with a feral kid is put 'em down. Yep. Seen it before...never pretty.
Kerosene
10-10-2006, 10:55
This has been my biggest fear when hiking with my newbie brother, wife, mother, and eventually daughter (all on separate trips), given that it's difficult for me to significantly slow my hiking pace for extended periods. Yelling doesn't work very well unless there is no wind or water noise. I think that banging a pot is better than a whistle, but a whistle is more convenient. My hiking buddy and I tried personal radios/walkie-talkies with 5 mile ranges in the Whites, but they only work line-of-sight and were generally worthless when the trail is rolling up and down and around ridges. Don't get me started on cell phones (as a technologist, I wouldn't keep my job if I designed products as unreliable as a cell phone!).
Staying on/near the trail is very important, and having a pre-arranged approach when things don't work out is paramount.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-10-2006, 11:12
My biggest fear was never that the kids would get lost (they knew to stay put & on the trail once they realized they were lost and had been taught how to make a shelter and use leaves, etc to stay warm). My biggest fear was that they would get out of sight and fall. Most children who have died in the Smokies have died from falls or injuries - not from simply getting lost.
Just Jeff
10-10-2006, 11:35
Yep, FD - my younger one is fearless. He'd be the one on the edge of the cliff to get a better view...sometimes if I'm standing on an edge, he'll come running over to see what I'm looking at. Freaks me out every time. Now I make him slow down as soon as he looks my way.
bigben - I've never heard to ration water. The best place to store is in your stomach. If you're rationing water and dehydration sets in, hypothermia and poor decision-making are that much closer. Drink when thirsty. Just what I was taught, though.
When my son was young (he is 9 now) I actually had him on a tether system. He was connected to me with a system of two carabiners and a lenth of poly webbing. He came off of it around when he was 7. He knows to never run ahead..and I drill the "if you get seperated from us, you park it." And the whistle..he knows to not take his pack off EVER, unless we say so.
Drilling it in took awhile..but I am glad I did!
And glad to hear it turned out ok with the missing boy!
When my son was young (he is 9 now) I actually had him on a tether system. He was connected to me with a system of two carabiners and a lenth of poly webbing. He came off of it around when he was 7. He knows to never run ahead..and I drill the "if you get seperated from us, you park it." And the whistle..he knows to not take his pack off EVER, unless we say so.
Drilling it in took awhile..but I am glad I did!
Yeah but, what's going to him/you when it's timefor him to leave the roost? Will he still have the "umbilical" cord attached?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-10-2006, 22:39
Sly, they tend to naturally gravitate away during the teen years -- that and they turn in real PITAs so you're ready to drop kick them out the door by the time its time for them to go.
Sly, they tend to naturally gravitate away during the teen years -- that and they turn in real PITAs so you're ready to drop kick them out the door by the time its time for them to go.
chuckle,,,ouch... my oldest (18) is in Germany for 11 mths on a student exchange program. man, the house has been peaceful since july 17th, when he left!!
When my daughter was about 7 we went on vacation to Acadia National Park in Maine. Some of you may know Jordan Pond. There is a nice restaurant there and a loop trail maybe a mile long which goes around the pond.
Anyway, we took a family walk around the pond. it was close to dark when were retuning to the Jordan Pond House where we had dinner reservations. My daughter asked to run ahead to play on the lawn, which I knew was only maybe 200 yards ahead. I told her to go ahead. My wife and I got there 3-4 minutes later, NO MICHELLE. My wife goes crazy, I run back up the trail, rangers are called. Big scene.
It turns out that there was a fork in the trail that I had not noticed which lead to a maintenance building/garage. There she was standing by the building, not really understanding what was going on. This whole thing took maybe 10 minutes, seemed like 10 days.
She's 24 now and graduating from Nursing School in May. My wife still reminds me of this story. Why can't they ever forget?
Way to go! The right place at the right time, very cool! ;-)
By rationing water, I really meant not shooting it at bugs, etc. from him 1.5 L hydration pack. He likes to play with his water supply. He IS a 5 year old boy.
Bigben
Blissful
10-11-2006, 08:51
It's not that hard to get lost, even on the AT, despite the white blazes (which in some cases are fairly far apart)
We were section hiking in Northern VA with our son who's 16 - and of course we let him stroll ahead of his aged parents. When we got to the road crossing, he wasn't there. We have a firm rule with him to wait at road crossings. Of course I freaked. My hubby went ahead to see if he just "forgot" the rule and charged on. I kept calling and using my hubby's whistle and did a lot of praying. Finally after about 15 minutes we heard his whistle. He had gotten off the trail somehow and was heading on some side trail to no where. He came up to us really scared (and I was too).
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-11-2006, 09:30
{{{ Blissful }}} There is no worse feeling for a woman than loosing a child - even temporarily. It gives you some appreciation for what mothers go through when a child passes on. (This is not meant to suggest men do not hurt - I'm not a man and can't relate to how men feel or react to lost children)
RockyTrail
10-11-2006, 10:43
Don't get between a mama bear and her cubs...
Just Jeff
10-11-2006, 10:52
By rationing water, I really meant not shooting it at bugs, etc. from him 1.5 L hydration pack. He likes to play with his water supply. He IS a 5 year old boy.
Ah - that makes perfect sense. My son likes spitting his water on plants to knock the dust off. (We have lots of dusty plants in Big Sur...it's pretty dry out here until rainy season starts...about now.)
Sly, they tend to naturally gravitate away during the teen years -- that and they turn in real PITAs so you're ready to drop kick them out the door by the time its time for them to go.
My oldest just turned 16. He is my hiking partner (for better or worse). All joking aside, he is really a pleasure ON THE TRAIL (at home is another story). He never grumbles about getting H2O, cleaning up, rain, packing, etc. and he hikes at my pace, which is fairly quick for a guy 30 yrs his senior, but I'm quite sure I'm not as fast as he is capable of (he is a nationally ranked wrestler and literally as fit as any Army Ranger).
{{{ Blissful }}} There is no worse feeling for a woman than losing a child - even temporarily. It gives you some appreciation for what mothers go through when a child passes on. (This is not meant to suggest men do not hurt - I'm not a man and can't relate to how men feel or react to lost children)
Last winter, while my son and I were attending a tournament near Niagara Falls, some 5 hours from home, I get a frantic call from my wife that my 13 yr old daughter was in the ER being worked up for, of all things, a stroke. During a soccer game, her entire right side went numb and became paralyzed. Scared the you-know-what out of me... I never felt so helpless and so afraid of losing a child than that moment. After a weekend in PICU, we got good news. TG everything worked out for us. I can certainly relate to the fear that father felt with a child lost in the wilderness with freezing temperatures. Thankfully someone like HE was there to provide some aid and comfort.
Blissful
10-11-2006, 11:59
My oldest just turned 16. He is my hiking partner (for better or worse). All joking aside, he is really a pleasure ON THE TRAIL (at home is another story). He never grumbles about getting H2O, cleaning up, rain, packing, etc. and he hikes at my pace, which is fairly quick for a guy 30 yrs his senior, but I'm quite sure I'm not as fast as he is capable of (he is a nationally ranked wrestler and literally as fit as any Army Ranger).
Wow, that's great. My son LOVES hiking if there are other guys around he can talk to and hike with (he is also an only child). Disney can relate - my son got his trail name from him and really enjoyed his company. If its just his crochety parents at the shelter though, he sleeps late and drags himself down the trail (or speed races down it, depending on the mood). It happened on our last section - he was looking for this one guy had had met earlier to show up and stay at the shelter - and was completely bummed the guy ended up tenting. Next morning was a challenge.
Anyway, I know he will LOVE the trail community next year. Hope he remembers I'm tagging along. ha ha
LostInSpace
10-11-2006, 12:06
There is no worse feeling for a woman than loosing a child - even temporarily.
This happens all the time in the shopping malls!
Wow, that's great. My son LOVES hiking if there are other guys around he can talk to and hike with (he is also an only child). Disney can relate - my son got his trail name from him and really enjoyed his company. If its just his crochety parents at the shelter though, he sleeps late and drags himself down the trail (or speed races down it, depending on the mood). It happened on our last section - he was looking for this one guy had had met earlier to show up and stay at the shelter - and was completely bummed the guy ended up tenting. Next morning was a challenge.
Anyway, I know he will LOVE the trail community next year. Hope he remembers I'm tagging along. ha ha
Blissful, how old is your son?
Blissful
10-11-2006, 14:19
Blissful, how old is your son?
16, same age as yours.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-11-2006, 14:33
This happens all the time in the shopping malls!One of mine got away from me in a place that sold jeans when he was two. I had him by the gloved hand (he was dressed as plasticman and the costume involved gloves). He was squirming and trying to get away and broke free for a second. I re-grabbed what I thought was his hand, but it was a pant leg being pulled on by the lady across the table. By the time I realized this (less than a minute) he had vanished. I looked all over the store and alerted the staff. He was missing for about 45 minutes and I had a complete meltdown. He had crawled into a storage area under the tables and gone to sleep on a pile of jeans. He grinned and said "I hide Moma" when he was found. No wonder I have so many gray hairs.
Twofiddy
10-16-2006, 15:13
We have trouble around here all the time with the different "authorities" not having AT maps and often no clue about the trail. On many occaisions they have needed help from the trail clubs and hikers to locate places on the AT.
It would be an interesting idea to have people donate appropriate maps to the local authorities. A map carrying hiker will not always be available.
Any ideas how this might work? I am thinking that I could donate a set covering our area to the Unicoi County Sherrif's dept... and so on.
Miss Janet,
This is a great idea, but the way that the EMS and other systems work these days the only real good way to do this would be to have the maps digitized and put on CD ROM and sent to all county dispatch centers or departments. The simple fact of the matter is that if you supply a local police department with a map, they are not going to have some one in the office when they need to get to it. If it was at the dispatch center, a trained dispatcher could relay the information on the map to the person in the field who needs it. Most police cruizers these days are equipped with Mobil Data computers that have police maps in them. I dont know who developes the maps but several different SAP and WMIS computer systems that are used by utility companies and other companies that do field work have layers in them that show certain things. The AT and the shelters gaps and other things could be listed on those maps.
Monkeyboy
10-18-2006, 21:31
Just had a great idea for an invention.......underoos equipped with lo-jack systems......never have to worry about where you kid is again!!!!
Monkeyboy
10-18-2006, 21:33
On the serious side, I couldn't imagine not taking my 14 yr old son on the trail with me......
Fourteen years old and he's already an inch taller than I am, and I'm 6'0".
But he's been with me hiking/camping/fishing everywhere I go......wouldn't be the same without him.
We have trouble around here all the time with the different "authorities" not having AT maps and often no clue about the trail. On many occaisions they have needed help from the trail clubs and hikers to locate places on the AT.
It would be an interesting idea to have people donate appropriate maps to the local authorities. A map carrying hiker will not always be available.
Any ideas how this might work? I am thinking that I could donate a set covering our area to the Unicoi County Sherrif's dept... and so on.
I guess first thing to find out is who will do the initial searches and or coordination in your area. Depending on the area the police may not be the ones who will search; it could be the fire dept.
Secondly, it still may not help until the 'right' people get on scene.
We had a call last week where it was obvious people in the emergency services are not comfortable using topo maps and doubly uncomfortable using a GPS to go to a location. I'm probably the only hiker in my dept. and I was unavailable to go on that call. I could hear their difficulty on the radio.