View Full Version : Men's advice get rid of a guy on the trail.
Pokey2006
10-13-2006, 03:29
Can we try this again? A discussion about this article, among us girls, that can focus on the issue at hand? Please forgive me if you gals have already dealt with this. If so, please send me links to those past forums and disregard this post.
www.valleyadvocate.com (http://www.valleyadvocate.com/)
I know for a fact there are guys who "attach" themselves to girls, following them around everywhere. It was mostly benign, more an annoyance than a safety issue. It was either patronizing, with guys wanting to play "protector" or father figure, or just plain pathetic, as in guys with no social skills looking to confident women for help and guidance.
It was not unheard of for female hikers to slow down or speed up or even take zero days just to "lose" a guy who was trying to attach himself to her.
I'm wondering what other FEMALE hikers think about this. Anyone else experience this? How did you handle it? Do you think our reluctance to speak up plays into this at all? How can we fix it?
For the record: My approach was to be standoffish with EVERYONE. I made it clear to everyone, guys and girls, that I wanted to be left alone. Lost me a few friends, probably, but also left me at a lower risk of having an unwanted "friend."
Ya, I know I'm up too late and should go to bed, but I still hope to hear any other ideas for dealing with this annoying problem.
virtualfrog
10-13-2006, 11:14
I also think that often the men hikers in this situation know exactly what signals the woman is sending out, yet deliberately choose to ignore them in hopes that she'll relent.
I don't know that I'd give us that much credit! Myself anyways, I'm utterly clueless, even when women think they're being incredibly blunt. A woman's version of blunt vs. a man's, is often very different things.
Just Jeff
10-13-2006, 14:34
Ladies, some men are creeps. But most of us are just dense. Like virtualfrog said, we're not too keen when it comes to hints. If you want us to leave you alone, say it. "I'm sure you're a great guy, but I'm not into you. Please don't hike with me anymore." That will go a LOT farther in getting rid of a guy than simply taking a zero and leaving him wondering. And personally, I'd respect and appreciate the forthrightness.
OTOH, many guys would readily defend a woman who felt uncomfortable around a man. Again, just be forthright about it. "This guy's following me and he's making me uncomfortable. Can I hike with you for a while?" As amazonwoman said, this approach would be much better than cozying up to someone and sending them (and everyone who saw it) the wrong message.
And if these don't work, wait until you're with a group of people and tell the guy, "Look, I don't want to hike with you. Leave me alone." Witnesses have a way of making the message sink in.
Just an opinion from a male. CLEAR boundaries work much better than hints and avoidance. Especially since we don't pick up on hints and don't always interpret avoidance like you want us to.
SGT Rock
10-13-2006, 14:50
Can we try this again? A discussion about this article, among us girls.
I don't know that I'd give us that much credit! Myself anyways, I'm utterly clueless, even when women think they're being incredibly blunt. A woman's version of blunt vs. a man's, is often very different things.
Ladies, some men are creeps. But most of us are just dense. Like virtualfrog said, we're not too keen when it comes to hints. If you want us to leave you alone, say it. "I'm sure you're a great guy, but I'm not into you. Please don't hike with me anymore." That will go a LOT farther in getting rid of a guy than simply taking a zero and leaving him wondering. And personally, I'd respect and appreciate the forthrightness.
OTOH, many guys would readily defend a woman who felt uncomfortable around a man. Again, just be forthright about it. "This guy's following me and he's making me uncomfortable. Can I hike with you for a while?" As amazonwoman said, this approach would be much better than cozying up to someone and sending them (and everyone who saw it) the wrong message.
And if these don't work, wait until you're with a group of people and tell the guy, "Look, I don't want to hike with you. Leave me alone." Witnesses have a way of making the message sink in.
Just an opinion from a male. CLEAR boundaries work much better than hints and avoidance. Especially since we don't pick up on hints and don't always interpret avoidance like you want us to.
Hey guys. I pulled out the first line for the first quote.
I think with all the negative crap or things that could be construed as that when men start adding with their $0.02 to this subject that we should give the women a chance to discuss this out on their own. Because, unfortunately, I foresee this thread being taken over by guys. It will start off with the good intentioned men and then end up with the off the cuff comments, and eventually end up with someone saying something offensive and then he will be upset when someone censors him or closes the post because he feels HE was the one that was wronged instead of just simply trying to discuss the subject at hand. So, take that as a "request" from the admins to let the women discuss this. However, I also think a great idea for a thread would be: A real man's advice on how to not bother women on the trail and on how to get rid of such guys. So I am going to copy some of the posts over to a new thread about that. BUT I bet you dollars to donuts that the thread will end up way off the mark (except) for the plan to put it in the STRAIGHT FORWARD forum.
next town you hit, post it here on WB that you're getting stalked. no matter where you are a bunch of us will be down there to make sure he doesn't do it anymore.:D
saimyoji
10-13-2006, 15:09
next town you hit, post it here on WB that you're getting stalked. no matter where you are a bunch of us will be down there to make sure he doesn't do it anymore.:D
Now this is a good idea. News spreads up and down the trail pretty fast. Helped by WB we can put a stop to this kind of raucous behavior, or at least expose it for what it is.
Dances with Mice
10-13-2006, 17:09
Here's (http://youtube.com/watch?v=qtrg6O3IgJA) how one young lady handled the situation.
I manage a branch of a large company and have had to deal with every kind of sexual harrassment complaint over the last 12 years. My first was when a woman came into my office to complain of a young man asking her out every weekend.....every weekend for 6 months. He wasnt rude, crude or disrespectful, just persistent and thick, i mean really, how many fridays could she possibly be washing her hair. When i asked her why she didnt just tell him to stop, she said she didnt want to be mean, but would file a complaint higher than my level if it didnt stop. So , i pulled the kid into my office and told him to stop and he stopped.
The fact is, in trying to be sensitive to this guys feelings, she was feeding into to the problem. Should he had gotten the hint? Absolutely. Was he kind of dumb? Most certainly. But, once he was told to stop he did.
Moral of the story, ladies, tell us your not interested and to leave you alone. The killer line of all killer lines would be, "i just want to be friends". Even the most dense of us know that code.
Just Jeff
10-13-2006, 18:50
Here's (http://youtube.com/watch?v=qtrg6O3IgJA) how one young lady handled the situation.
Removed due to terms of use violation. What was it?
Dances with Mice
10-13-2006, 20:05
Removed due to terms of use violation. What was it?Oh, too bad. I'll try to paint a picture: Establishing shot of a sparkling white beach, two people in the distance file into the ocean. Close up - if you can imagine this - of a beautiful young lady in a small bikini. (You guys are doing great! Wonderful imaginations!) followed by a young man a few yards behind her. The young lady stops to stretch and sees the guy following her. She keeps moving frame right. The young man follows. She goes deeper. He's behind her. It's apparent they aren't together. She's navel-deep in the water when she turns around to confront him. He raises his eyebrows. She smiles and (under the water) strips off her bikini bottom and throws it to him. He smiles back. He strips off his swimming trunks. She gestures for him to throw them to her. He does.
She puts on his trunks and heads back to the beach, leaving him in the water holding a way, way too small bikini bottom. He's no longer smiling. Back on the beach she enjoys a cold diet Sprite in peace.
now that is funny, wish i had seen the video
Dances with Mice
10-13-2006, 20:28
now that is funny, wish i had seen the videoTry .... now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfTSfcSdl0Y)!
Skidsteer
10-13-2006, 21:00
It doesn't get any more straight forward than that, DWM( Dances with Moderators )
:D
Yep, we is dinse. At least when it comes to women & their "Obvious clues".
My wife & I have a discussion about this almost daily. When a man says something like "would you like to go to dinner?" 95% of the time what he really means is: "would you like to go to dinner?" When a woman (specificly my wife) says, "maybe later" she might mean maybe later, or it could mean: "I like steak" or "Fish are creapy" or "there is a stone in my shoe" or any of a million things, most with nothing to do with going to dinner. She (My wife anyway) thinks she is being perfectly clear & after over 30 years I am still surprised by what she thinks I mean by "would you like to go to dinner?" it's never the same thing twice. "You should have known what I ment" Or "I thought you ment _ _ _ _ _ " is her response.
Point is: men are literal, saying "maybe later" to a man, means to him "maybe later" if you mean "Not a snowballs chance in h***!" then say that! THEN if he dosn't go away, you know that the message was heard & Ignored, THEN take "measures". And, NEVER rely on body language, that nearly never works. especially if it is a negative message, we almost never pick up on those.
Just my $0.02
Doctari.
rgarling
10-14-2006, 10:24
Doctari has far, far, underestimated the value of his advice. It is priceless.
SGT Rock
10-14-2006, 10:37
Yep, we is dinse. At least when it comes to women & their "Obvious clues".
My wife & I have a discussion about this almost daily. When a man says something like "would you like to go to dinner?" 95% of the time what he really means is: "would you like to go to dinner?" When a woman (specificly my wife) says, "maybe later" she might mean maybe later, or it could mean: "I like steak" or "Fish are creapy" or "there is a stone in my shoe" or any of a million things, most with nothing to do with going to dinner. She (My wife anyway) thinks she is being perfectly clear & after over 30 years I am still surprised by what she thinks I mean by "would you like to go to dinner?" it's never the same thing twice. "You should have known what I ment" Or "I thought you ment _ _ _ _ _ " is her response.
Point is: men are literal, saying "maybe later" to a man, means to him "maybe later" if you mean "Not a snowballs chance in h***!" then say that! THEN if he dosn't go away, you know that the message was heard & Ignored, THEN take "measures". And, NEVER rely on body language, that nearly never works. especially if it is a negative message, we almost never pick up on those.
Just my $0.02
Doctari.
Exactly. My wife and I had this discussion about something like this - specifically about the thread that sparked this one. She was wondering why guys were posting to it. And I said the initial post never said GUYS PLEASE STAY OUT. She said that she did, but wasn't being said in such a rude in the way but politely. I told her that the way I put it wasn't rude, that was what guys want: bottom line up front guidance on what is wanted. Anything that is vague with a guy will most likely have the opposite of desired effect.
On the other hand my wife told me that the way I put it was rude. So I suppose what could be construed as rude to most women is the way most men want things put, and the way a man would say what he wants or what he thinks could be considered rude to a woman.
Saying "I plan to take some time off in the next town" from a woman may mean she is dropping a subtle, polite, hint that she is trying to bow out of hiking with the guy and let him know she won't be moving out right away, most likely in an attempt to let him get ahead. HOWEVER the guy is most likely going to take this as an invitation that she wants him to do it with her, otherwise why would she mention it?
So now he is going to plan to do the same thing. Then she thinks he is an inconsiderate stalker and he thinks she just invited him to stay there with her and they have a realtionship of some sort (not neccissarily sexual).
On the other hand if she said: "I came on a solo hike for a reason - a personal one. And being with you is changing how that is working. I think we need to split up at Erwin so I can get back to hiking solo and get what I was looking for. Please do not hike with me after that so I can do this" tells him:
a) she wants to be alone
b) she doesn't want him with her. Alone does not mean the two of them alone.
c) next town is where she plans to have him go a different way.
If he still tries after that, well the only way she could be more direct is to say stay away or I will call the cops.
Programbo
10-14-2006, 11:53
I think sometimes a gal can be overly cautious..I know there are a LOT of jerks out there but for the most part I would think the guys who "attach themselves to girls" are either just lonely and are looking for a hiking companion and figure a female will be more understanding of this or else they miss their girlfriend/wife and just want some company or they are honestly trying to be that white knight who will be the protector (Not realizing they are coming off as the type person she wishes to be protected from)...I would suggest a polite but direct explanation that you wish to hike alone...If done with a smile and a meaningful "thanks anyway" most guys will go on their merry way...You just don`t want to come off with an attitude or statement that makes it seem you are accusing him of bad intentions or that you just don`t want him specifically around you
The Weasel
10-14-2006, 16:55
Can we try this again? A discussion about this article, among us girls, that can focus on the issue at hand?
Speaking as a guy to all the guys, but this isn't a question of "are women too indirect," or, as so poignantly put by that master of misogyny, Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady, "Why can't a woman be more like a man?"
It's pretty clear: "Among us girls." What part of that don't the rest of us guys understand? She asked for it clearly, and instead, a lot of guys play don't "get it" from that. Would you rather a woman just was bloody rude? Or would she get criticised then?
If you want to debate when and how women should say things clearly, go to a relationships forum, dudes. THIS thread is one that the person starting it, politely and clearly, said, "I want to hear from other women on this."
Any man wanting further discussion on this point - or even on her thread - should honor her request and take HIS comments to another thread. Isn't that the point?
Rock, you got it right the first time, but not the second. Sorry, Sarge...but take it elsewhere.
The Weasel
Programbo
10-14-2006, 17:09
It's pretty clear: "Among us girls." What part of that don't the rest of us guys understand? She asked for it clearly,.......If you want to debate when and how women should say things clearly, go to a relationships forum, dudes. THIS thread is one that the person starting it, politely and clearly, said, "I want to hear from other women on this." .......Any man wanting further discussion on this point - or even on her thread - should honor her request and take HIS comments to another thread. Isn't that the point? The Weasel
Ummmm..I think you missed the "MEN'S advice get rid of a guy on the trail" part...This topic started in the women`s forum which is why it had the "among us girls" part in it..When the original poster copied and pasted it in this general forum to get the guys take on it she didn`t change that part but did add that subheading to make it clear she was seeking guys input..Or else I`m misunderstanding in which case as the old SNL skit said...Never mind!
dixicritter
10-14-2006, 17:29
When the original poster copied and pasted it in this general forum to get the guys take on it she didn`t change that part but did add that subheading to make it clear she was seeking guys input..Or else I`m misunderstanding in which case as the old SNL skit said...Never mind!
Actually, SGT Rock was the one that copied the original post over here not the original poster, so technically it's his fault... ;) LOL.
does this need to be talked about again and again :-?
does this need to be talked about again and again :-?
My thought ? Sure it does. :eek:
We have new members everyday. :-?
Everytime something like this is talked about, well, more people have the oportunity to understand what's up.
You don't have to read it again and again however.;)
SGT Rock
10-15-2006, 00:51
Speaking as a guy to all the guys, but this isn't a question of "are women too indirect," or, as so poignantly put by that master of misogyny, Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady, "Why can't a woman be more like a man?"
It's pretty clear: "Among us girls." What part of that don't the rest of us guys understand? She asked for it clearly, and instead, a lot of guys play don't "get it" from that. Would you rather a woman just was bloody rude? Or would she get criticised then?
If you want to debate when and how women should say things clearly, go to a relationships forum, dudes. THIS thread is one that the person starting it, politely and clearly, said, "I want to hear from other women on this."
Any man wanting further discussion on this point - or even on her thread - should honor her request and take HIS comments to another thread. Isn't that the point?
Rock, you got it right the first time, but not the second. Sorry, Sarge...but take it elsewhere.
The Weasel
Well Weasel there was a thread in the women's forum that this thread started from. The guys started posting there, so instead of letting them take over that thread (as has happened in the recent past) I coppied this one over here to let the guys beat the horse while leaving the women's thread alone. I figured if guys were going to try and post somewhere anyway, may as well let them do it here and let them have their say. I know you haven't been around for a while (welcome back again BTW :welcome ) but this topic has been brought up a few times by women and ends up with discussions about hot dogs and women's anatomy. The point of starting this thread was to get that away from the original thread so the guys don't go there again - at least not on that version of the thread.
But I know you are trying to do the right thing - just like I was trying to do. We just missed the same starting point time and place ;)
being properly respectful I know better than to post the following suggestion over in the women's forum:
one way to get rid of a guy who is bothering you on the trail - carry a sharp straight razor and tell the guy that the razor's name is Lorraine
the goat
10-24-2006, 13:59
I still hope to hear any other ideas for dealing with this annoying problem.
tell him you love him & want to marry him. that should do it.:)
copythat
10-24-2006, 14:19
"i thought i'd be out of place on the trail, seeing as how i'm a nun, but i'm really having a good time."
Toolshed
10-24-2006, 15:23
I started to think this whole concept was annoying because there are also enough annoying cloying women out there to sink a ship (ask any guy who has ever worked in the bar or nightclub about all the barflies), but then I thought about funny lines that would make me (or any normal guy) run for the hills:
I have this thick white discharge.....
I don't pluck those inch-long hairs around my nipples
I quit having sex 14 years ago and when I realized how disgusting it was
I slept around a lot and picked up a couple of STDs in my younger days, but they are now all under control.
I spent 8 months in prison in Georgia for stabbing my old boyfriend while he was sleeping one night because the prick smiled at another woman.
I find Loretta Bobbitt to be a courageous trendsetter.
one way to get rid of a guy who is bothering you on the trail - carry a sharp straight razor and tell the guy that the razor's name is Lorraine
I think its Lorraina, actually...
Toolshed
10-24-2006, 16:42
I think its Lorraina, actually...
Sorry, I was thinking of my Mother-in-law "Loretta" (.....shudder.....)
I think its Lorraina, actually...
Lorena Bobbitt actually
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-24-2006, 17:57
Hi, my name is Lorena Bobbit and I'm so happy to finally be out of jail. Can I borrow your scissors?
hikerjohnd
10-24-2006, 18:38
I have this thick white discharge.....
I don't pluck those inch-long hairs around my nipples
I quit having sex 14 years ago and when I realized how disgusting it was
I slept around a lot and picked up a couple of STDs in my younger days, but they are now all under control.
I spent 8 months in prison in Georgia for stabbing my old boyfriend while he was sleeping one night because the prick smiled at another woman.
I find Loretta Bobbitt to be a courageous trendsetter.
Ok - at first I was grossed out - but now this is my favorite post - #1 would send me running!
TIDE-HSV
10-24-2006, 20:29
the sort of thing you tend to take a person's word for... You don't want to verify it personally...
Hammock Hanger
10-24-2006, 20:32
Exactly. My wife and I had this discussion about something like this - specifically about the thread that sparked this one. She was wondering why guys were posting to it. And I said the initial post never said GUYS PLEASE STAY OUT. She said that she did, but wasn't being said in such a rude in the way but politely. I told her that the way I put it wasn't rude, that was what guys want: bottom line up front guidance on what is wanted. Anything that is vague with a guy will most likely have the opposite of desired effect.
On the other hand my wife told me that the way I put it was rude. So I suppose what could be construed as rude to most women is the way most men want things put, and the way a man would say what he wants or what he thinks could be considered rude to a woman.
Saying "I plan to take some time off in the next town" from a woman may mean she is dropping a subtle, polite, hint that she is trying to bow out of hiking with the guy and let him know she won't be moving out right away, most likely in an attempt to let him get ahead. HOWEVER the guy is most likely going to take this as an invitation that she wants him to do it with her, otherwise why would she mention it?
So now he is going to plan to do the same thing. Then she thinks he is an inconsiderate stalker and he thinks she just invited him to stay there with her and they have a realtionship of some sort (not neccissarily sexual).
On the other hand if she said: "I came on a solo hike for a reason - a personal one. And being with you is changing how that is working. I think we need to split up at Erwin so I can get back to hiking solo and get what I was looking for. Please do not hike with me after that so I can do this" tells him:
a) she wants to be alone
b) she doesn't want him with her. Alone does not mean the two of them alone.
c) next town is where she plans to have him go a different way.
If he still tries after that, well the only way she could be more direct is to say stay away or I will call the cops.
This all goes back to Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus....;)
Almost There
10-24-2006, 21:59
Now personally, I like to hike with another person, but it isn't the be all end all of me getting out on the trail. I am slowly getting my wife into it...but she hasn't been on any extended hikes yet. This past summer I hiked with a gal who wanted to get out for her first long hike. She had posted here and I knew the floodgates would open of offers from guys offering to hike with her. I simply sent her a PM and told her where I was hiking and told her she was more than welcome and that my wife would vouch for me that I wasn't some creep. Anyways, after that I left it up to her, she later said she asked some of the gals around here about me...Uh-oh!:eek: Anyways, it allowed her to decide in her own way and we went and hiked this summer, and had a great hike...that had absolutely nothing to do with "hooking up".
I would never push myself on another woman...for one, my wife would kill me, and two, it isn't why I am out there to hike. I was looking for someone to hike with and it just happened to be a gal. I will say this I do agree that some guys on the trail are complete dicks when it comes to gals on the trail and their desire to "get some". I saw it this summer when some guys were drooling over a girl. I don't know maybe I have never understood desperation. If a girl likes you, she'll let you know, and trust me she will already know you find her attractive. Let her make the move, and gals if the guy keeps coming on...tell him you just got out of a long relationship and you aren't interested in hooking up for a LOOOONGGG time! You could even work it into a conversation. If he still doesn't get the hint, just say I'm out here to hike my own hike and I just want some peace and solitude for awhile....and if he still doesn't get it...Tell him to ***** off!!!:D
One method could be to start mooching from him. Have him pay for stuff in town, eat his food (the good stuff), smoke all his cigarettes or whatever he's smoking, etc. etc. Even if he doesn't leave you alone you can eventually break his bank and he'll have to get off the trail and back to work. Then you can have a great time with all the money you've saved.
hammock engineer
10-25-2006, 09:19
One method could be to start mooching from him. Have him pay for stuff in town, eat his food (the good stuff), smoke all his cigarettes or whatever he's smoking, etc. etc. Even if he doesn't leave you alone you can eventually break his bank and he'll have to get off the trail and back to work. Then you can have a great time with all the money you've saved.
That's the spirt. Break his bank, force him off the trail, give up his dream of hiking, and make him get a job. I think there are better ways out there then combating the worst actions in men with some of the worst things a woman can do.
I've felt shut out of conversations between women, even though I've reassured that they're not of a personal nature.
I feel what you're saying, but I think its not really valid for men to be concerned with it. There's a ton a reasons why I think women need to be able to talk with other women, and I think women need a forum that is more like what they experience in real life, especially with being such a minority on the AT.
However, getting back to the original question, I think a woman gets rid of a man on the AT by trusting in other men to help, which perhaps is really the point that Tinker is trying to get to. As many here have said, a woman does need to communicate as literally as possible so that a man is clear on her intentions, but I think us men are writing ourselves off as dumbasses a little too quickly.
If a woman is 'communicating' to a man to leave her alone, and he's not doing that, then this is a problem man. He may not be a rapist, but he can certainly ruin a hike all the same. A woman should elicit the assistance of other men to become involved in whatever way is needed to remedy the situation, and one of the reasons I appreciate this thread staying out here, is that men need to be aware of the issues women may have on the trail and know that they may be counted upon to help.
I feel what you're saying, but I think its not really valid for men to be concerned with it.
edit please
One method could be to start mooching from him. Have him pay for stuff in town, eat his food (the good stuff), smoke all his cigarettes or whatever he's smoking, etc. etc. Even if he doesn't leave you alone you can eventually break his bank and he'll have to get off the trail and back to work. Then you can have a great time with all the money you've saved.
I think this is a great idea! Provided that he's been directly told, "I'm not interested!", the door is then open for the woman to bust the bank of any moron who can't take a hint. Turn on the charm. Make him pay for everything. Have him carry some of your gear weight. Mooch his food. He'll either run out of money or walk away when the dummy realizes this girl's going to cost him a fortune. I have no sympathy for idiots who don't know how to appropriately interact with the opposite sex. So ladies, give them a clear warning, and if that doesn't work, leave them penniless in some town while you continue merrily up the trail.
Lone Wolf
10-25-2006, 10:37
What a dumb thread. A non-issue really. If a guy hits on you and you don't want anything to do with him just say,"*** off, stay away from me."
What a dumb thread. A non-issue really. If a guy hits on you and you don't want anything to do with him just say,"*** off, stay away from me."
Bingo! End of thread.
What a dumb thread. A non-issue really. If a guy hits on you and you don't want anything to do with him just say,"*** off, stay away from me."
If it was that easy, there wouldn't be this thread. I'd agree that should be the first thing a woman says to a guy when she realizes he's not getting it, but the problem is for the men that don't get it, and its not always so innocent. Its a little unfair for you to sit there and say the thread is 'dumb'. Oh, but maybe you're a woman, in which case that would be fine. ;)
Toolshed
10-25-2006, 11:15
One method could be to start mooching from him. Have him pay for stuff in town, eat his food (the good stuff), smoke all his cigarettes or whatever he's smoking, etc. etc. Even if he doesn't leave you alone you can eventually break his bank and he'll have to get off the trail and back to work. Then you can have a great time with all the money you've saved.
HA!!!! You don't have to be a hiker (or probably much of anything to find women that will do that!!!) :banana
Lone Wolf
10-25-2006, 11:17
If it was that easy, there wouldn't be this thread. I'd agree that should be the first thing a woman says to a guy when she realizes he's not getting it, but the problem is for the men that don't get it, and its not always so innocent. Its a little unfair for you to sit there and say the thread is 'dumb'. Oh, but maybe you're a woman, in which case that would be fine. ;)
If he doesn't "get it" tell him you're a lesbo. End of pursuit.
If he doesn't "get it" tell him you're a lesbo. End of pursuit.
He might be one of those guys who likes to watch "Lesbian Spank Inferno" or something like that! :p
SGT Rock
10-25-2006, 11:37
If he doesn't "get it" tell him you're a lesbo. End of pursuit.
Didn't work in "Chasing Amy"
Gray Blazer
10-25-2006, 11:38
If he doesn't "get it" tell him you're a lesbo. End of pursuit.
Tell him you're really a man and haven't had the sex change operation yet.
Lone Wolf
10-25-2006, 11:38
Who's Amy? That a movie?
SGT Rock
10-25-2006, 11:41
http://www.viewaskew.com/chasingamy/
That's the spirt. Break his bank, force him off the trail, give up his dream of hiking, and make him get a job. I think there are better ways out there then combating the worst actions in men with some of the worst things a woman can do.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
Pokey2006
10-25-2006, 15:13
I think it's so funny how you guys are coming up with all these ideas -- some good ones, too, I might add -- but then just as quick another MAN comes along and points out how it won't work. He he he.
Mooch off him??? Tell him you're a lesbian??? Sure ways to get him MORE, not LESS, interested.
Not so easy to lose a guy on the AT, is it fellas? :-? :)
Toolshed
10-25-2006, 15:49
Doubtful.... I've seen a few lesbians that were quite frankly larger and scarier than me. I'd hate to have some woman going psycho on me cuz she thought I was interested in her girlfriend. ....But I would be amused if she Kicked some other guys ass!!!!
NICKTHEGREEK
10-25-2006, 16:04
I think its Lorraina, actually...
First name is immaterial, Bobbitt is more than enough.
NICKTHEGREEK
10-25-2006, 16:12
That's the spirt. Break his bank, force him off the trail, give up his dream of hiking, and make him get a job. I think there are better ways out there then combating the worst actions in men with some of the worst things a woman can do.
If a guy is foolish enough to let some woman do all the above to him, then maybe, just maybe he was following the wrong dream.
pull out the straight razor and offer to give them a shave
hammock engineer
10-25-2006, 17:10
If a guy is foolish enough to let some woman do all the above to him, then maybe, just maybe he was following the wrong dream.
Yeah but I could see some woman reading this than taking advantage of some foolish guy's kindness and attention until it killed his hike. I could see the wrong dream angle, but I can also see the other end. Being a guy I don't understand the women angle, but I can't justify one action I can't stand with another one.
First name is immaterial, Bobbitt is more than enough.
Bobbiteer!
Just Jeff
10-25-2006, 18:31
If he doesn't "get it" tell him you're a lesbo. End of pursuit.
Or else he'll double his efforts.
This is the STRAIGHT FORWARD forum, and the topic as stated by the original poster is “Men's advice to get rid of a guy on the trail.”
Remember as stated in the “sticky” at the top of the SF page:
>The criteria for removal is deviation from stated topic of post, in fact you will see in place of a deviated post:
"Edited due to deviation from stated intent of forum"
"Please stay on topic so you won't see, “The Message”!
BTW, saying something like: "(Poster) you are stupid for posting (this message)" is not staying on topic. <
While the poster did specify Girls ridding themselves of unwanted Guys, it CAN apply to all of us. With that in mind, and as this IS the “Straight Forward Forum” (this isn’t the first time I have had to do this BTW), I will be removing posts that question weather or not this post should exist.
This is a topic that affects one of our members enough that they took the time to intelligently post a question. They deserve a respectful response that follows the intent of the question. Humor is OK, & some of the responses meant to be funny, may actually work. However, as stated in the sticky, I will be removing all posts that sound to me like "(Poster) you are stupid for posting (this message)" along with other deviations from topic.
Following Sgt rocks suggestion of "A real man's advice on how to not bother women on the trail and on how to get rid of such guys." shall also be considered ON TOPIC.
Doctari
Straight Forward Moderator
Well then if you want serious advice, I guess everyone would have to agree that
1. kind and honest and as diplomatically as possible
2. followed by firm and honest
3. followed by firm and honest with others as back-up around and a threat to call the police
4. followed by a call to the authorities
is the 4 step process.
If it continues after that, mace in the face or a leki pole in the nuts is justified.
Things not to do:
1. Sleep with the stalker
2. Share hotel rooms in town, double beds at hostels, showers, gear, tent, food etc. with him.
3. Lead some other guy along in an attempt to make the stalker think you found someone else, sleep with that guy, and then dump him and then complain when he seems to take it hard, repeat this process up the trail and then complain about how guys on the trail are creeps.
Blue Jay
10-26-2006, 01:46
Lead some other guy along in an attempt to make the stalker think you found someone else, sleep with that guy, and then dump him and then complain when he seems to take it hard, repeat this process up the trail and then complain about how guys on the trail are creeps.
Where do you come up with this crap? Is there a single topic that you know even the smallest bit about?
I was referring to the article that spurred the flurry of stalker threads here on Whiteblaze. Mabye you missed it?
Toolshed
10-26-2006, 09:19
Where do you come up with this crap? Is there a single topic that you know even the smallest bit about?
BJ,
Unless this post is a troll to test the admins, It seems Bfitz sums up exactly what DejuVu said she did in her Pink Blaze communique.
I wonder if people aren't over reacting to this. If you read the post by women who have solo hiked the AT and other trails most didn't have that problem. All it takes is one article and people start over reacting.
It's not right to let egregious misrepresentations go unchallenged. Especially widely read published ones.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 16:29
Just because it's not mentioned on public threads doesn't mean "most women don't have this problem." This IS, in fact, a very real problem.
Maybe more women don't tell you about their experiences on this website because of the attitude some of you guys have about it.
Well, I didn't mean to put anyone down. Lessons (one sort or other...) can be drawn from everyone's perspective on every issue. My criticism is specifically directed. It is not intended to address every circumstance.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 16:38
I think I was responding to Ewker's comment. And I'll say again that I don't believe you can get a clear picture of what actually goes on out on the trail by reading what's posted in a co-ed, public forum. Especially about something sensitive like this. I mean, just read some of the comments from these guys, and you'll see why!
Read through the women's version of this same topic, in the women-only section, and you might get a different feel for this.
Those differences should help provide some perspective. That's how it's supposed to work!
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 16:55
Sure, you're right.
But for guys to say there's no reason to talk about this...well, who are they to say that this is or isn't an issue???
However, perhaps it is time to put the conversation on the shelf for a while.
I think I was responding to Ewker's comment. And I'll say again that I don't believe you can get a clear picture of what actually goes on out on the trail by reading what's posted in a co-ed, public forum. Especially about something sensitive like this. I mean, just read some of the comments from these guys, and you'll see why!
Read through the women's version of this same topic, in the women-only section, and you might get a different feel for this.
I posted this once and my computer messed up so here goes again.
I find it odd that the women who post on this thread say one thing while the women who post in the women's forum say something different. Most of the ones who posted on this thread said nothing like that happened to them. Now if the women on your side said something different they need to post on this thread. I haven't bothered to read the womens version because someone didn't want the men to post. So why bother to read it when you don't want my opinion or comment.
Seems to me you are taking the word of the women who wrote the original article as gospel. How do you know she wouldn't have lied about it to make it more interesting. Not saying she did but you never know:-?
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 17:13
I can't say whether this particular woman's story is true or not. I wasn't there.
But, boy, let me tell you -- it sounded awful familiar.
Why are you so convinced that it's NOT true?
I am not saying it isn't true. It very well could be.
But some of the things she said she did like sleeping with guys then sleeping with other guys to ditch the first one could have caused part of her problems.
I am sure there are guys who are jerks out there. But don't forget that works both ways.
She is a writer, remember that first and foremost.
I forgot this. Remember it is a writers job to get you hooked into what ever they are writing about. If they don't it won't sell or be published
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 17:26
I agree she handled this very, very badly, which only compounded her problems.
However, do you think she would make up a story that makes her look as bad as the men who were following her around? If she were going to make it up, she would have made herself look good, right?
Unfortunately, the sleeping around has colored the issue. In my experience, women had the same problem as she did, WITHOUT any sex being involved.
And that's great that women on this forum have said they didn't have this problem. I wouldn't want them to have this problem. However, that doesn't mean that "most women" have not had to shake off men who were following them on the trail.
Toolshed
10-26-2006, 17:35
Would it be different if she were a journalist?
Well there is that entertainment factor - How many really want to read:
"Day 1 Ate, hiked slept.
Day 2 Ate, hiked, tripped on rock, slept
Day 3 Ate, farted, took 2 pics, hiked, slept."
When they can read:
"stopped at falls and stripped to my delicates as I watched a hot guy strip off shirt and the sweat glistened on his well tanned body as he stepped under the cool refreshing water ...I felt my breasts grow heavy with desire, no longer constrained by the sternum strap of my pack..."
Either way, I do fine the men's thread MUCH more entertaining to read that the woman's thread, irrespective of the fact that men tend to make light of the subject.
I also read somewhere perhaps in one of my AT books, that many thruhikers lack certain social skills or suffer from social anxiety of some form I cannot recall specifically but sometimes that becomes part of the reason they are out there. It has nothing to do with experience or knowledge.
So there could be a higher propensity to have a man and woman that might not communicate as well with others, let alone each other meet on the trail and you are bound to get 2 completely different versions of the truth based on their perceptions.
But let's be clear there are thousands that have hiked the trail and have lifelong memories and have made lifelong friends of the other sex, so all kidding aside a balanced perspective is still needed.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 17:40
I do think you hit on the root of the problem: a lack of balance. Well, that coupled with a lack of social skills.
The problem will be solved when there are equal numbers of women and men on the trail.
The problem will be solved when there are equal numbers of women and men on the trail.
Ummm...there are approximately equal numbers of women off the trail and the problem hasn't been solved there!
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 18:19
Good one!
However, men just do not follow me around in the real world like they do on the trail. Maybe because I wouldn't give some of the men I met on the trail the time of day in the real world, but on the trail, you're forced to deal with everyone else out there.
However, do you think she would make up a story that makes her look as bad as the men who were following her around? If she were going to make it up, she would have made herself look good, right?
The story wouldn't be realistic if she was perfect or didn't do something wrong. By writing the way she did made it interesting esp to people who haven't hiked before.
IMO she might have done more harm than good. Now women see her story and wonder if they are safe out there. She might have stopped women from hiking.
Even worse is that hiking message boards would be talking about it ;)
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 18:45
Women are safer if they are aware of the issue before they go out there. If that scares some women away, that's too bad. Personally, I wish I had known beforehand, rather then having to find out the hard way. And no, it wouldn't have scared me off the trail.
Just because something makes the trail look bad, or suggests some kind of danger, does not mean it shouldn't be discussed in a public forum.
Just Jeff
10-26-2006, 18:58
There will be equal numbers of men and women on the trail shortly after there are equal numbers of men and women in sewing classes and ballet.
We're different. Deal with it.
You've chosen a hobby that's male dominated. The fact that thru-hiking is male dominated isn't good or bad or any morally-judgmental value statement. It just is. That doesn't excuse inappropriate behavior by either group (men or women), but that behavior happens on the trial and off, and changing the ratio of men to women on the trail won't solve the problem.
Giving everyone (men and women) a healthy dose of personal identity, values and self-esteem is the only solution. To me, that's more important than gender when discussing this issue.
Short of physical violence, gender is only an issue if you let it become one.
Just Jeff
10-26-2006, 19:09
Haha...ok, Pokey. It's not that men and women are different at all. It has everything to do with gender inequalities and victimization and social awkwardness and all sorts of things that only happen in one direction, and only on the trail.
Do you really think a 50/50 mix of men and women on the trail will make this go away? Seriously?
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 19:13
Actually, I do think it would solve a lot of the problem, though, no, not make it go away because it has been known to work the other way, too. But like you said, it is a male-dominated hobby, which leads to more testosterone-induced behavior then most women are used to dealing with. Such behavior lessens when there's more estrogen in the room.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 19:16
The social awkwardness part...why is it that so many men on the trail are so socially awkward? I met more "normal" women on the trail then normal men...and men outnumber the gals out there! What's up with that?
Just Jeff
10-26-2006, 19:22
I think it's that we're used to being in a society where men and women are roughly equal in numbers. Then they spend all their time in an environment with very little female contact. Couple that with the competitive male instict (too much testosterone?) and the stakes are raised for each female encounter. Some folks don't know how to deal.
Increasing the number of women on the trail would definitely be a good thing. I agree that it wouldn't make the problem go away, but it would disperse it over a larger number of women, and therefore impact each one less significantly.
Or maybe it's that men go on the trail to prove that they're rugged and manly, which includes impressing the ladies, but they're really not rugged and manly...they're just socially awkward. And it shows more on the trail b/c it's harder to shake them since you're hiking to the same places.
Or maybe this is all just over-analyzing. Some folks are socially awkward. If you let them ruin your hike...
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 19:27
Now, how can we keep these socially awkward guys from ruining our hikes?
Rather then telling us women how to deal with these guys, why don't we figure out how we can get these guys to stop acting this way?
I don't know what normal is. Certainly no thru-hiker of either sex I ever met was normal. Definitely some man/woman issues are brought into better focus on the trail. Possibly also, the small population and extreme ratio cause some who might not have encountered such behavior too often (and hence gotten used to dealing with it/become inured to it) to encounter it more frequently? Fewer ptential tcandidates for that type of guy to latch on to. Social misfits can latch on to a group as well, or particular males and the same sort of awkward maneuverings occur when people try to avoid the resposibility of being straightforward, and end up causing unintended insult when found out.
yes, mooching is totally the way to go! ;)
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 20:01
Ya know, I don't think we should have to do anything. We should be able to mooch, not mooch, sleep with a guy, not sleep with a guy, whatever. It's the MEN who need to do some things differently.
For starters: 1. don't slow down or speed up to hike with a girl until you know for sure that SHE wants to hike with YOU.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 20:03
2. You're hiking a trail. WALKING. Putting one foot in front of the other. There's nothing macho or manly about it, so stop puffing out your chests and stop trying to impress us, for crying out loud.
C,mon, pokey! Who's doing that? Granted we do like to puff our chests out in general when females are around, but I think you're being a bit overly harsh, especially in sense of generalization. As far as speeding up or whatever to spend time with someone...why not unless that person doesn't want it? I know some who are married now that started that way. Every situation is different. Follow your instinct. And have good instincts.
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2006, 20:26
Ya know, I just re-read this whole thread, and it seems like around 99% of the comments agreeing that this is a major problem on the Trail have been made by one person.
Are women, particularly single, younger, attractive women, sometimes the recipient of unwanted attention on the Trail?
Well, sure they are. And it happens when they're not on the Trail, too.
And most of them very easily deal with it.
This is simply not as pronounced or serious a problem as a few people seem to think.
Pokey, you seem to act like it always the guys fault and that women would do nothing to cause a guy to act like that.
Last yr I ran into one female 4 times on the trail. No I wasn't stalking. I was doing Trail Magic with different groups of people. The last time I saw her she was at Trail Days. Everytime I saw her she was with a different guy. Did she play it up to be with each one, how did she dump one to get another. She was playing the game to make her trip easier. Is that the way you want women to be remembered? Was that ok for her but not for a guy to try to hook-up with a female?
Being on the trail is probably no more different than trying to date in today's society. It is hard and both sexes make mistakes
One thing I have learned is that there is a big difference between a
woman from the north and one from the south.
I am sure someone will run with that statement ;)
It's the MEN who need to do some things differently.
For starters: 1. don't slow down or speed up to hike with a girl until you know for sure that SHE wants to hike with YOU.I honestly could not see myself ever contemplating this because I'm happily married. Even before I was married I would never consider this. That being said, I have read about how many thru hikers gravitate to cliques. Couple that with 24/7 opportunaties to be in close proximity with the same people for weeks or months and you have a social setting unlike anything I can think of. Bad news if any males believe that the hiking clique formed because of personalities instead of timing. It's an easy jump from that to wanting something more than friendship. Only thing I can suggest is avoid cliques or be extremely clear with your feelings and expectations in regards to personal relationships on the trail.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 20:47
Ya, Jack, because no one else wants to say on this thread that they had this problem, probably for fear guys like you will jump down their throats and tell them THEY caused the problem.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 20:50
And it may not be a serious problem for you, Jack, but it is a serious problem for ME when I have to change around my hike just to get rid of a guy who's following me.
Ya, Jack, because no one else wants to say on this thread that they had this problem, probably for fear guys like you will jump down their throats and tell them THEY caused the problem.Nothing in Jack's post gave me that impression.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 20:57
Jack stated that only one person on this forum is saying this is an issue. I'm saying that perhaps other people who have encountered this as an issue are not comfortable saying so on this thread.
In other words, just because no one else on this thread is saying "ya, that happened to me, too," doesn't mean there aren't women out there who had this same experience.
saimyoji
10-26-2006, 21:00
Good to see a healthy discussion on a hot topic go three pages without personal attacks and name calling.
Some of us are socially awkward and can only really be functional on the trail. I know some people who just can't function in the "real world" but get them out in the wild, in their "real world" and they are the most well adjusted, engaging and interesting people to be around. Myself, I'm awkward in any situation. Thank goodness for the annonimity of the net.
Pokey, I'm sorry the trail made you mean. Someone very close to me suffered abuse from a spouse, and was "made mean" as well. It is possible to "become nice" again though. Good luck. :)
saimyoji
10-26-2006, 21:03
Jack stated that only one person on this forum is saying this is an issue. I'm saying that perhaps other people who have encountered this as an issue are not comfortable saying so on this thread.
In other words, just because no one else on this thread is saying "ya, that happened to me, too," doesn't mean there aren't women out there who had this same experience.
Yes, very true. Just like not all hikers report completion of the trail to the ATC, not all victims of abuse (in whatever form) report it. However, keep in mind not to let one or two bad apples spoil the bunch.
Lone Wolf
10-26-2006, 21:42
And it may not be a serious problem for you, Jack, but it is a serious problem for ME when I have to change around my hike just to get rid of a guy who's following me.
Then stay the *** off the trail if you can't tell a guy to *** off. You're going on and on about guys hitting on you. You ain't all that. I've been on the trail 20 years. This has never been an issue till this year when some broad writes a man-hating story. Grow the hell up and be a woman.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 21:46
Ah, it was a good debate...
I didn't call it being hit on. In fact, I've been very clear about the fact that something else is at play here.
So only people who tell each other to "f...k off" should be on the trail? Nice people have no place out there? If so, then may the trail should make us mean -- that way we fit in out there.
Lone Wolf
10-26-2006, 21:50
Ah, it was a good debate...
I didn't call it being hit on. In fact, I've been very clear about the fact that something else is at play here.
So only people who tell each other to "f...k off" should be on the trail? Nice people have no place out there? If so, then may the trail should make us mean -- that way we fit in out there.
I've met hundreds of gals on the trail. None of them had your troubles. My last post on this BS thread. Totally a non-issue. Go on Oprah .:rolleyes:
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 21:55
There are an awful lot of people on WB saying that this, that and the other thing is a "non-issue." So what is an issue? Whether people carry a sword or who is the hottest hiker dude? And why are you bothering to post on here, anyway, if you don't think it's an issue???
I am tiring of this topic myself. I think we've debated the crap out of it. Time to agree to disagree, put it on the shelf and move on.
Mountain Man
10-26-2006, 21:58
I'm not saying this don't happen on the trail. But my question is don't hikers on a long distance hike leap frog each other along the way over a 6 month hike? One takes time off and the other catches up from time to time. One slows down or speeds up for different reasons other than trying to catch up to somebody? I'm married and after reading all of this I'm going to be paranoid next year on my Thru if I keep running up on the same girl several times. I'll be thinking she's thinking I'm stalking her.:eek: Even though I ain't. Man I'm going to be stressed out.:D Not trying to make a joke out of it but for real I'll be thinking it now. Dang I wish I hadn't read all this because It's getting complicated now.:D I guess the women can tell who is and who ain't after them.:confused: All I want to do is enjoy my hike and make a lot of life long friends out there men and women.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 22:07
If you bump into the same girl over and over, just ask, or tell her you don't mean to follow her or even make a joke of it. That'll give her a chance to say, ya, you're making me nervous, or no, not a problem, let's be friends. Chances are, if you're married, you probably have some social skills, so you probably have some idea of how to deal with women. I wouldn't stress. Be aware that women hiking alone might be a little skittish, but don't stress.
My point is exactly the same, believe it or not: I just want to enjoy my hike without having to worry about all this crap.
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2006, 22:09
Geesh! I can well imagine you're tired. After all, you've only posted around 25 times on the subject since yesterday.
But for the record, I wasn't jumping down anyone's throat.
I was merely making the observation that Pokey's increasingly strident, near-hysterical posts on the subject were most noteworthy for the fact that she was pretty much alone with her argument. And for her to say that dozens of other women hikers on Whiteblaze felt muzzled or threatened by this thread, or were afraid to join the discussion is absurd. Women on Whiteblaze, like nearly every women hiker I know, are made of sterner stuff.
Pokey received little support in her repeated arguments for a simple reason:
In all truth, I don't think many folks who read her words agreed that the situation she's concerned about is, in fact, that significant a problem on the Trail.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 22:13
I don't know about near-hysterical...
I don't mind being the only one to say this stuff. Oh, wait, I'm NOT. I've just seconded some of the stuff that the article's author brought up. She was attacked, too. Hmmmm.
Just because I'm all alone in making this argument doesn't mean there's no issue here.
I keep posting because y'all keeping posting back! Ya, I'm wicked tired!
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 22:15
Actually, I should re-word that. I don't feel attacked. And I know you weren't jumping down any throats. You make a valid point. But so do I. Just because I make it alone doesn't mean it's not valid, is all I'm saying.
My point is exactly the same, believe it or not: I just want to enjoy my hike without having to worry about all this crap.I've read quite a few suggestions and offered some myself that deal with this. Hopefully on your next hike you will feel empowered to face your fears. Good luck to you Pokey.
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2006, 22:27
Pokey:
I don't know if you're aware of this, but this matter was extensively, even exhaustively discussed on another thread.
And bringing up the author of the Advocate article doesn't strengthen your argument in the slightest.
On the contrary, it weakens it.
Her article was not only full of things that were provably false, but her moral behavior on the Trail was so reprehensible that it was roundly condemned by almost everyone....including quite a few women.
And lastly, the fact that you're making the argument virtually alone doesn't mean it's not valid.
But the absence of people clamoring with stories of similar abuse and harassment does indeed indicate that you might be making more of this than is actually warranted.
I got the answer! Like a women only forum, they should have a women only trail>
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 22:35
And we've managed to exhaustively discuss it again on not one, but two threads simultaneously. It hits a nerve, obviously.
I do think these threads have included a number of good ideas and thoughts, and I'm happy so many people, with so many differing viewpoints, have participated.
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2006, 22:46
"It hits a nerve, obviously."
Ummm,Pokey, you're missing the point that on the first thread, the woman who raised the issue was roundly condemned for her behavior, and for exaggerating her circumstances and experiences; on both threads it was universally acknowledged that it was all much ado about very little.
Well maybe not universally.
There are still around two people who actually think this is an issue so alarming that we really need to get hot and bothered about it.
It isn't and we don't.
Sorry if that hits a nerve.
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2006, 23:00
I'm talking about it, Pokey, because with your 30-odd posts, you're making a great hullabaloo about something very small, and in the process, you are disseminating false information about the Trail. This can be un-nerving and un-settling for folks planning to hike next year. In short, I think you're helping to scare people needlessly. And THAT is the issue.
So I'll continue talking about it as long as you keep insisting it's a valid concern.
Here's the news: The woods aren't filled with drunken Deliverance dudes; there is very little crime of any sort on the Trail; and reports of sexual harassment or stalking on the Trail are greatly exaggerated and mostly false.
Anyone that insists otherwise is mis-informed; has a personal agenda of some sort; or has some uncomfortable unresolved personal issues.
But scaring people by repeating falsehoods of the reality of life on the Trail serves nobody.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 23:11
OK, I'm happy to debate. I'll address your concerns.
I don't feel like I've said anything the least bit scary. Rape is scary, murder is scary. Having a creepy guy follow you around is, well, not scary -- it's annoying.
I actually disagree that discussions about crimes/violence on the AT is over-exaggerated. Seems to me it's barely discussed at all. Because God forbid we scare people away from the trail!
People, especially women, are not going to stay away from the trail just because we're having this discussion on WB. At least I would hope not.
Are you really so afraid that having an honest, open discussion about an interest of concern to some hikers -- even better, like you think: one hiker -- will scare people away from the AT??? So, in that case, should we only talk about happy, fun, positive things?
I wasn't as fired up about this issue until you guys tried to tell me it doesn't exist at all. I saw it. It does exist. Men do, indeed, follow girls around on the trail. Why do you insist that this isn't something for women to be concerned about?
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2006, 23:20
This dialogue has never been "honest."
You cite as corroboration a newspaper article that has has been thoroughly debunked; it was chock full of exaggerations and outright falsehoods. Yet you insist that it somehow validates your comments and concerns.
And when folks that know the trail far better than you tell you that these concerns and worries are ridiculously exaggerated, you insist that it is YOU who are right and everyone else is mistaken.
If this is your idea of an honest open discussion, well, it's a pretty useless one.
And you know what?
I've changed my mind.
I DON'T think your fervid posts are going to scare any women away from the Trail. They're not going to make anyone think the backwoods are filled with lu****ll, obsessive stalkers and molesters.
Instead, people will be on the look-out for shrill, obsessed, insecure, hysterical phobics.
Well happily, there ain't too many of them either.
Good night.
Jack Tarlin
10-26-2006, 23:37
No, Pokey, I can't recall having hiked the Trail as a woman.
Can't remember having hiked it as an albino cross-eyed Danish ambidextrous, transgendered vegan Unitarian, either.
But despite these failings in your eyes, I've hiked enough and have met with and spoken with enough other hikers---including scores of woman hikers---to know that what you're screeching about is exaggerated, hysterical, fear-mongering.
And it's starting to make you look not only silly, but more than a little nutty.
The interesting thing here is that if your comments advising fear and caution were made in regard to any other group of people, if for example you told people to be alert around Jewish hikers, or gay hikers, or obese hikers....if you were maligning any other group the way you are men, you'd be called out on it.
I'm not saying you're a bigot.
I'm saying you obviously have some issues regarding men that are probably better dealt with in a location other than a public Internet Forum.
But if you insist on spouting nonsense here, people are going to comment on it.
Whiteblaze is an excellent place to share and exchange information and knowledge, but it ill-serves people, especially next year's hikers, if previous hikers insist on telling them things that simply aren't true.
Pokey2006
10-26-2006, 23:46
Ugh, that's where you get me going -- saying "things that simply are true." But there IS truth there.
The rest, you might be able to convince. Over-exaggerated? Ya, OK, I can give you that. Not every woman has this experience? Sure, I'll give you that, too. I can meet you in the middle...until you try to tell me that I'm spreading falsehoods.
Sure, on these forums we (ya, me) have gone a bit overboard discussing this topic. I'd hardly call it hysterical or fear-mongering, however. I had just hoped to have a discussion about the topic that didn't get twisted and colored by hateful comments. What's so wrong with that?
There's a place for almost any kind of AT-related discussion on WB. Or at least that's what I thought.
Just Jeff
10-26-2006, 23:53
What's wrong with it is that you're pretending like it's so prevalent that it generally ruins females' hikes and you're putting ALL the blame on men.
If it were prevalent, more females would be speaking up. And nothing is the fault of a single gender.
So these guys that ruined your hike. Did you tell them to s t f u and leave you alone? Bluntly?
Pokey2006
10-27-2006, 00:02
I was ready to stop this way back when, but y'all keep getting me going...
Just Jeff, No, I didn't have to have that sort of confrontation with anyone. I was able to 1. avoid unwanted attention because I kept to myself, avoided shelters, didn't spend much time in town, etc. 2. avoid unwanted attention because, as Lone Wolf said, I'm "not all that" and 3. when I did have a guy trying to hike with me, I usually slowed down so much that he wouldn't be able to hike with me if he actually wanted to finish his own hike.
I agree that not all women deal with this, and that not all men are horrible. However, I will argue and argue and argue with you guys when you tell me I'm making this up out of thin air. I'm honestly amazed at the level with which y'all are trying to convince me that I'm crazy!
If you want to think me crazy, or hysterical, go ahead. Whatever.
Nighty night.
Just Jeff
10-27-2006, 00:14
I don't recall anyone saying that you completely made it up or that it absolutely doesn't exist. Nearly everyone said that it doesn't routinely ruin women's hikes and that there are mature, responsible ways to deal with the situation when it happens.
Just Jeff, No, I didn't have to have that sort of confrontation with anyone. I was able to 1. avoid unwanted attention because I kept to myself, avoided shelters, didn't spend much time in town, etc. 2. avoid unwanted attention because, as Lone Wolf said, I'm "not all that" and 3. when I did have a guy trying to hike with me, I usually slowed down so much that he wouldn't be able to hike with me if he actually wanted to finish his own hike.
ok I am seeing from what you posted that you had no problems at all with men.
1. you avoided everyone by keeping to yourself in town and in shelters.
Did that include women as well as men.
2. you avoided unwanted attention.
Does that mean you accepted wanted attention?
3. if a guy tried to hike with you, you slowed down.
How do you know he wanted anything other than someone to hike with or to be friends. Can a guy not even talk or hike with you without you thinking he is hitting on you?
based on what you said it sounds like you were a loner.
I guess I am lost as to where all this men hitting on you took place?
Well, i believe there is an issue, since it comes up all the time in all environments where men and women interact. I just think a while back pokey was being a bit overzealous. Now I think she's the one sounding reasonable and everyone's coming down hard on her point of view. I think somewhere in between lies the true severity of the problem, but it's not like it's any different on the trail than at the local bar or wherever. Pokey, you put up some good points...fun debate, I just think sometimes men get (at least a bit) more blame than they deserve in this regard sometimes.
Pokey2006
10-27-2006, 00:46
Name me one time I said men were hitting on me. In fact, I have repeatedly clarified this point.
You guys twisted it around to say that men were hitting on me. I never said that. Go back and read the first post of this thread.
No, I did not encourage "wanted" attention. Sorry to disappoint you, but, unlike the woman who sparked this whole debate with her article, you will not find any bad behavior on my part -- aside from the fact that, yes, I was a loner.
I'm sure there are other ways to discredit my argument besides fishing to see if I was a sleeping around.
I don't get this "attaching yourself" thing and how it manifests itself on the Trail.
I would think that this could happen to many hikers, for all sorts of reasons. Because someone is a woman, or a trail legend, or generous with his weed. Or whatever. But I don't have a clue on that. I hiked around just one person, and him only for less than a week.
I can see how unwanted attention could be anoying.
Its very hard to understand a woman's special perspective on this without knowing the specifics on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis, however. But I am surprised that a soulution could not be found rather quickly.
Which isn't to say that I am surprised to hear that some woman have such uncomfortable experiences.
Anyway, with out knowing more details, It is hard to get all of what Pokey is saying, and harder still to draw an generalities to life on the Trail.
Rick
I don't get this "attaching yourself" thing and how it manifests itself on the Trail.
I can't imagine hiking with ANYONE for more than three consecutive weeks - male or female. I've never done it, and don't plan on it anytime soon.
OK, maybe I'll make an exception for Selma Hayuk. If she'll have me - that is. ;)
Maybe it is time to start a thread for the guys, HOW TO LOSE A GIRL ON THE TRAIL. After all, there are to sides to every story. I recall the story in Bryson's A Walk in the Woods where he and his partner had a girl pick them up who was a total pain in the ass and they couldn't shake her for some time. Just an example, for those of you who read it. This could happen to you, guys.
mweinstone
10-27-2006, 07:44
i attatch myself to women as often as i can. witch is like never. duh! we follow woman cause they got somthing we need. we acctually die as a species without it.dumb thread. all hiker chicks have a hord of men following them.hiker babes are mans dream women.there all so sunshiny and cherry cheeked.why do men attatch themselves to women on the trail? duh! the real issue is why do unwanted folks attatch themselves to groups or individuals. the answer is a harmless,.. cause they dont like being alone in the woods.
KirkMcquest
10-27-2006, 07:55
I was lucky enough to 'hook up' with a hiker chic this summer ( for alittle while anyway). If I had been worried about what she might think if I hiked with her, it would never have happened. I'd say that staying at close proximity to someone your interested in is like a basic necessity for becoming intimate. What else are we supposed to do???
Thank God your Dad probably followed your Mom around for awhile.
Toolshed
10-27-2006, 10:00
I am curious - I have an acquaintance who happens to be a lesbian and thruhiked around 10 years ago - she hooked up with another woman (lesbian) right out of the gate and they remained together until they got off the trail.
OK woman reading this thread - Obviously there are women both straight and lesbian that thruhike - how do you keep the lesbians from attaching themselves to you or "pink blazing" on your thru - Or did you not have any episodes of this??
Almost There
10-27-2006, 10:03
Damn, disappear for less than twenty four hours and the thread size has doubled.
Pokey, you need to find yourself a good therapist and then read some books on human nature because it appears you have a hard time understanding it.
Males chase females...look around you. Boy ducks follow girl ducks, boy squirrels chase girl squirrels. Yes we have thought and control and most of us know how to "act" when in public, but it doesn't mean we don't think about it, to not do so is to deny your sexual programming. I always find it funny that there are certain women who never see that they do anything wrong...it's not for you to judge...you are inherently biased about your own behavior, just as we all are. Now it may very well be the case that you didn't do anything wrong and you simply had a bad experience, but to impugn the honor of many a man over your issues with a few is what insults many of us. See I have been on the other end and so I have issues with women who go out of their way to try and make it always look like it's the guy's fault. Lucky for me it was other women who came to my defense knowing what the facts were and that the girl was simply feeling spurned by me...I actually was oblivious as to how upset she was by the fact that I didn't make a move on her...until some other girls told me.
Perhaps some of these men had previous experience on the trail where ladies did need their help, or perhaps simply they are social retards...as many hikers are.
Regardless, I am amazed at your inability to let the issue go. I also completely agree with Jack that female hikers are a pretty tough breed. Many of my gal friends could keep up with me on the trail and there are even a few that could hike circles around me.
What you are doing is akin to the gal who wears the low cut top to the office and then complains all day about how the guys keep looking down her top...isn't that the purpose of a low cut top??? Or here is a personal incident from my wife the other day.
She has this outfit she likes alot. The skirt is short and plaid and looks great on her. She is plenty young to still wear this and it looks plenty professional for the office...however, thanks to Brittney Spears...guys react a certain way whenever she wears it...a way she has decided is creepy...now if she were to approach it with your attitude she would be demanding that they stop looking at her and leave her alone. Thankfully she has enough sense to know that this will not work, and so her decision is that she will only wear it when she goes out with me...because I can oggle as much as I want...and she actually likes it!
You need to accept that you are a woman and there are certain advantages and disadvantages to such, just as there are for being a man. There are too many young women today that want to have their cake and eat it too. Life doesn't work that way.
There is a reason why men traditionally ask women to marry, why they say two months salary for an engagement ring, why the wedding is all about the bride. Why Valentine's day is targeted towards the female, or why Mother's Day is a much bigger deal than Father's Day. This is all fine, and this is all conventional thought...which I know many hikers buck, but all the same it is part of our socialization in this country...you don't necessarily have to like it...but you also aren't gonna change it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
10-27-2006, 11:24
Fellows, in Pokey's defense - men do tend to attach themselves to women for the obvious reason, but some also attach themselves because they see the woman as in need of protection or assistance. It is easy to tell a fellow looking for sexual companionship you are not interested in increasingly forceful terms until he gets the hint. Sometimes, it is darn near impossible to discourage would be big brothers and daddies. The more you protest, the more tenaciously they cling.
Almost There
10-27-2006, 11:32
Fellows, in Pokey's defense - men do tend to attach themselves to women for the obvious reason, but some also attach themselves because they see the woman as in need of protection or assistance. It is easy to tell a fellow looking for sexual companionship you are not interested in increasingly forceful terms until he gets the hint. Sometimes, it is darn near impossible to discourage would be big brothers and daddies. The more you protest, the more tenaciously they cling.
Dino I don't disagree about the dad/big bro' mentality of some of my sex. Don't completely get it, but then again I was raised by a strong woman...and don't see all women as weak and helpless. If you are out there for the solititude then say so, and if he still doesn't get it, then find a decent male and ask him to explain it to the other guy....I did this for a friend in college....yes, I know it makes you appear, "weak and helpless" but it also got the results she wanted...left alone. Look on the brightside, being a woman means you can hitch a ride about 20-30 minutes faster than most guys...always a brightside on the trail!:D
SGT Rock
10-27-2006, 11:37
Those kind of guys don't just attach themselves to women. Someone that has low social skills can also attach themselves to other guys and their hike as well. I know a fella... ;)
It is easy to tell a fellow looking for sexual companionship you are not interested in increasingly forceful terms until he gets the hint. Sometimes, it is darn near impossible to discourage would be big brothers and daddies. The more you protest, the more tenaciously they cling.
And I've thought all these years NO meant YES. hmmm:-?
These threads about ditching guys may actually backfire on the gals. All the how to's are out and you can be sure the guys picked up on them. The gals may need to develop some new strategies in secret, if they have any left:D
I have been asked by a close friend on whiteblaze to check out this thread and put in my 2 cents.
Well, here it goes....
I am reminded what outsiders normally ask when they find out about your adventure "Arn't you scared?" Knowing they are usually refering to wild animals or something silly of the sorts. My reply usually goes along the lines "I'd rather be on the trail than in the middle of NYC." In reality on and off trail I have seen both men and woman attempt to latch on to their opposites. For whatever reasons. No less I have heard of sketchy situations and believe it or not (watch it guys!) have been the object of such desires. I think this topic is going a bit overboard. There are more men out their that are willing to watch my back so that I am not hurt in any way, these are my trail brother, fathers and grand-daddys than there are loosers looking to get in my pants (again watch it guys!). If you do not have the backbone to loose one of the many loosers out there, you mind as well lock yourself in a room somewhere away from all of society. Behavior spurs behavior. Two favorable traits of a long distance backpacker are strength and independence, with that you can deal with ANY situation. In conclusion, that advice comes from a woman with over 10,000 miles under her feet. The End.
:dance :dance :dance