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Monkeyboy
10-18-2006, 08:36
Hey, Guys,

Will be taking my scout troop on the Georgia portion this summer. We hope to hike the entire GA strip in six days. But we don't want to stay in or near the shelters if people are in them as to not bother others.

My question is, does anyone know of camping areas around the following shelters we plan to stay at.

1.) Gooch Gap - I know the old one was taken down and is now a campsite.

2.) Woods Hole or Blood Mtn.

3.) Low Gap

4.) Tray Mtn.

5.) Plumorchard

We will finish up the trail at Deep Gap and stay at Standing Indian Campground for the night before heading home.

As well as, does this itinerary seem doable?

Thanks for the input,

Monkeyboy

Dances with Mice
10-18-2006, 09:01
Hey, Guys,

Will be taking my scout troop on the Georgia portion this summer. We hope to hike the entire GA strip in six days. But we don't want to stay in or near the shelters if people are in them as to not bother others.

My question is, does anyone know of camping areas around the following shelters we plan to stay at.

1.) Gooch Gap - I know the old one was taken down and is now a campsite.

2.) Woods Hole or Blood Mtn.

3.) Low Gap

4.) Tray Mtn.

5.) Plumorchard

We will finish up the trail at Deep Gap and stay at Standing Indian Campground for the night before heading home.

As well as, does this itinerary seem doable?

Thanks for the input,

Monkeyboy
I don't know the age range of the hikers on your Troop, Scouts & adults, or their abilities. About how many will be in your group?

You list Gooch Gap as your first campsite. Are you thinking Springer to Gooch Gap for day one? That's quite a haul for unconditioned hikers on their first day, especially if they've got heavy packs. It's do-able, I've done it, but if you've got younger / smaller / out of shape hikers it will be a problem. To answer the question, Gooch has a large open camping on the south side of the road crossing and areas where scattered backpacking tents can be set up.

There are campsite clearings at Jarrard Gap, just before Woods Hole, and at Bird Gap, about 100 yards past the Woods Hole blue-blazed side trail. A little bit further is the Slaughter Gap tentsite area with scattered tent pads along a trail loop just above a great water source. Might be a better fit for your group if you can talk them into walking another mile.

Low Gap, Tray, and Plumorchard - no problem, gentle sloping areas along the trails to the shelter. I've tented Scout groups at each.

Tray to Plumorchard would be another tough day. How many days do you have set aside for the hike?

Monkeyboy
10-18-2006, 09:30
Trying for six......

I know the first leg, Springer parking to Gooch, is going to be a stretch, but think we should do o.k., since we will be fresh that day. The boys that attend will all be my older scouters, because I don't feel like leaving a boy for dead on the side of the trail with a GPS marking to tell the parents where they can find his bones! :)

We are currently working on Ultralight hiking skills, and planning a 20 miler camping trip here in Florida.....not that 20 miles in Florida is anywhere near 10 miles in the mountains! We are also currently working on Hiking merit badge, where they have to hike four ten milers and one twenty. Not much to many of you guys, but for them, it's eternity!

We hope to reach Gooch from the Springer parking area the first day with about two days food.

On second day, meet our support vehicle in Woody Gap to replenish food, fuel and clothes. Then we continue on to somewhere between Woods Hole and Blood Mtn for second night.

On third day, we meet up with support vehicle at Neels Gap for replenishing again, change from backpacks to day packs to slackpack from Neels Gap to Hogpen Gap. Take a small break and change back to backpacks to Low Gap for the night.

On fourth day, we go to Unicoi Gap, again to replenish, and push on to Tray Mtn.

On fifth day, from Tray to Dick's Creek Gap for replenish and push on to Plumorchard.

On sixth and final day, hike from Plumorchard to Bly Gap and up into Deep Gap to be picked up on the Forest Road there and travel to the nearby Standing Indian campground.


Sounds like the campsite clearings won't be a problem.....I just know that some people would not like to be around young men camping, but like I said, it will be my older boys and they are extremely well behaved and experienced campers, but not ultralight, but we have about seven months to work on changing that.

Just wanting to give my boys something they will remember for a lifetime, and maybe even turn them into avid hikers like everyone else here!

Gray Blazer
10-18-2006, 09:36
There was a gap before Plumorchard that had an old road with lots of space. I think it was Cowart Gap. Spring nearby.

Dances with Mice
10-18-2006, 09:39
If you have a support driver, you might consider letting the boys hike with daypacks to Gooch Gap. It's easy to get there by vehicle. Might also have him stash drinks, or wait with drinks, at Cooper Gap.

Monkeyboy
10-18-2006, 09:43
Didn't even notice Cooper Gap.....getting too old to read fine print.....

Thanks for the advice on that one, for sure!

Will a van with a trailer be able to get into Cooper Gap?

peanuts
10-18-2006, 09:44
How many in your group total???

Lone Wolf
10-18-2006, 09:45
Didn't even notice Cooper Gap.....getting too old to read fine print.....

Thanks for the advice on that one, for sure!

Will a van with a trailer be able to get into Cooper Gap?

Yes. Cooper gap is right on FS 42.

Monkeyboy
10-18-2006, 09:45
Probably about 10 to 12 hiking, with two scout moms following for resupply.

Dances with Mice
10-18-2006, 10:04
If the van will be at the Springer parking lot then driving to Woody Gap it will have to pass through both Cooper & Gooch Gaps anyway.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 08:17
Well, now after reading posts on whether to do the Approach Trail or not, I am wondering if it wouldn't be more of an experience to do the Approach instead of just starting at the summit.......

One side of me says the boys would appreciate the challenge of reaching Springer, but the other says that the support moms in the van would appreciate seeing the boys off at the summit......

decisions, decisions, decisions.....

max patch
10-19-2006, 08:43
One side of me says the boys would appreciate the challenge of reaching Springer, but the other says that the support moms in the van would appreciate seeing the boys off at the summit......


The moms can do both. Drop em off at ASP and then drive to Springer. The moms will get to Springer a lot quicker than you will.

Dances with Mice
10-19-2006, 08:50
Well, now after reading posts on whether to do the Approach Trail or not, I am wondering if it wouldn't be more of an experience to do the Approach instead of just starting at the summit.......

One side of me says the boys would appreciate the challenge of reaching Springer, but the other says that the support moms in the van would appreciate seeing the boys off at the summit......

decisions, decisions, decisions.....What is the objective of the trip?

If it is to section hike all of the GA AT in a limited amount of time then you may not be able to afford to hike the Approach and you should use the support van to carry the packs as much as possible.

If it is to have a mountain backpacking trip, then let the ladies explore Helen most of the week and only meet you at major road crossings. Do the Approach because it's easier for the support van, and end your trip at Dicks Creek. Amicalola Falls is a great group photo opportunity at the start of the hike.

The most important question, though, is "What does your Senior Patrol Leader want to do?" These type of decisions should be his, then you help him make it happen.

orangebug
10-19-2006, 09:14
It is a lot of folks for a pretty ambitious hike. You are going to have stragglers, and they will adversely affect your ability to resupply and to set up camp in these shorter days. If you are teaching ultralight hiking skills, resupply a lot of clothing sounds a bit off message.

If your troop is from Florida, these boys simply will not have the thigh/knee strength for our PUDS. Limiting the initial days to 8-10 miles will help you get them tuned up for something more challenging in the latter days.

I'd suggest you consider a Springer FS42 to Dicks Creek Gap trip, and think about maybe dayhike toward Bly Gap and back if you succeed in 6 days. They would qualify for not only their merit badges, but the GATC's Georgia patch for their backpacks.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 09:17
The hopes of the trip is to take one week to hike the GATC portion.

We are from the Bay Area in Florida, so one day travel to Amicalola. Leave Sat morning early...camp in campground Sat night.

Begin hike on Sunday morning early and try to reach Standing Indian Ground by Friday and travel back on Sat, giving one day of rest before going back to work on Monday. If we have to, I guess would could travel back on Sunday, giving seven days for hike with two days travel.

Again, objective is to give the boys a hiking trip they will never forget, without killing them in the process.

And your post (DWM), brings up another important subject.....what can the support ladies do in the area.....any suggestions for high spots to hit. Half day trips in the area of special interest? Being from N. Ga. you would know the cool spots versus the tourist traps.

As far as what the SPL wants to do, currently the SPL is my 14 yr old son....Life Scout currently working on his Eagle Project....who wants to hike the entire AT.......sooner rather than later........so I made a pact with him to do a section every year until we have it completed.

We have talked about it over and over and over, and the boys of the troop heard us...now they want to go. That's how this all started with the troop.

Thanks for the help,
MB

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 09:24
OB,

As far as the Hiking merit badge requirements, we are doing all of those as training for the AT. We are currently hiking long distances (10 to 15) on a trail that used to be a railroad. Believe it or not, I'd rather hike in the woods. The old RR trails have no shade, are paved with asphalt, increasing the heat and throughly heating up your feet, and has no give for your ankles.

As far as the resupply lots of clothes, I only mean that the boy will have the clothes on his back and one replacement in his pack. When he changes, he could drop off the dirties and get a fresh ziploc filled with his new change of clothes, if necessary.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 09:26
And as far as stragglers, that is why we are taking four adults. Two to stay with faster boys and two for the slower, but all boys going will be selected for their ability for duration, stamina, enthusiasm, etc.....

In other words, just because a boy is physically fit, if he doesn't show the enthusiasm to do it, we simply will talk him out of it, because as you know, it is something you want to do, not just something you can do.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 09:50
Which brings another question to mind.....how's the cell phone reception in the GA portion?

Don't want to have the support team having to wait for hours on end for us to reach the gaps.

Gray Blazer
10-19-2006, 10:28
Hey Monkeyboy, I'm from the bay area. I used to be in troop 456 in Clearwater. I would love to help you in any way I can. Someone mentioned that the FL boys might have a hard time with the ascents. That could be true. The answer.....walking up and down stadium steps. The bigger the stadium, the better. I don't know if you have access to Raymond James, but, that would be a great place to take the boys a few times before their trip to let them know what they'll be in for. Here in G-ville, I use FL field. There are ramps and steps about 6 stories high. I try to walk up and down them 6-10 times everytime I go out. Believe me, it helps. When you're going up those 1000 ft steep ascents in GA you'll be glad you climbed those FL "mountains".

Dances with Mice
10-19-2006, 10:53
I would recommend dropping the goal of hiking the entire GA section and instead focus having a fun backpacking trip in the Georgia mountians. That takes off a lot of pressure of having to be at (-place-) at (-time-) or having to rush to stay on a schedule. 8'ish miles a day with a group that size is reasonable, maybe even ambitious. If you try to push much beyond that things could turn sideways in a hurry.

When I took Scouts from Dicks Creek to Amicalola on Spring Breaks, we included a night in a motel at the halfway point to shower, pig-out on junk food, clean and re-evaluate gear.

Helen (http://www.helenga.org/) -is- a tourist trap, but I kinda like it. It's not -entirely- tacky, it has lots of artist's shops to browse through. I'd make it van home base. Near there, Cleveland (http://www.cabbagepatchkids.com/) might have something they'd like to see.

Buy this map (http://www.atlanticmapping.com/north_ga__w_m_a_'s.htm)for the van driver, have another on the trail. It'll have all the road access points.

Phone reception is generally good, but you can walk awhile in areas where it's not available. It's reliable in the gaps or from peak tops. Plan on leaving and checking messages rather than relying on direct connections. On the Trail our Crews used the FSR - Family Service Radios - to keep communication open between the lead hikers & the sweepers.

bigben
10-19-2006, 10:56
I agree, Springer to Gooch will be tough for Scouts. The first half (to Hawk Mtn, no problem). The 2nd half(up Sassafras and Justus Mtns ), well, you'll be hearing the whining. I got cell phone coverage(Verizon) atop Springer, but not again until Woody Gap, Big Cedar, Blood Mtn, and Neels Gap. I can't answer for after there.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 11:26
Thanks for all the suggestions.....will recalculate, and add the extra day to lighten the load.....that's why I'm glad to have found WB!!!!

GreyBlazer,
I know the troop well.....so you're a scouter and a Gator and from the Bay Area......my kinda hiker!!! Don't know if we can get into RJ, but maybe USF stadium or Tropicana....Tropicana would be closer. Will give them a call.....maybe service project of picking up trash while hiking up and down.....hmmmmm....

Gray Blazer
10-19-2006, 11:34
Thanks for all the suggestions.....will recalculate, and add the extra day to lighten the load.....that's why I'm glad to have found WB!!!!

GreyBlazer,
I know the troop well.....so you're a scouter and a Gator and from the Bay Area......my kinda hiker!!! Don't know if we can get into RJ, but maybe USF stadium or Tropicana....Tropicana would be closer. Will give them a call.....maybe service project of picking up trash while hiking up and down.....hmmmmm....
Best "mountains" in FL! You do have more heat to deal with, however.

Dances with Mice
10-19-2006, 13:49
Thanks for all the suggestions.....will recalculate, and add the extra day to lighten the load.....that's why I'm glad to have found WB!!!!The planned day starting at Tray is a bit of a haul, too. Would you consider making that shorter, stopping at Deep Gap (GA) and moving your take-out point at US-76 Dicks Creek? Make smiles not miles. Get enough smiles and they'll be back for more miles.

Look, take this or leave it: From my experience with Scouts the boys won't really care if they make it from Springer to Bly Gap or not. Most won't appreciate the GATC section patch either, older Scouts already have a sock drawer full of cloth patches. They will remember stopping to take the side trail to see Long Creek Falls on the first day. They'll remember checking out the "cave" on Justus Mtn that 5 thousand other Troops have already found. They'll remember the hut on Blood Mountain, sodas and chips at Neels Gap, the summit of Tray Mountain. They'll remember finding salamanders where they collected water, who spilled the cookpot, who snored the loudest, finding fresh bear droppings outside their tent in the morning, who forgot their raingear and who dropped their flashlight into the privy.

They'd really remember if the van showed up at a road crossing with pizzas for everyone. It's their vacation too.

Gray Blazer
10-19-2006, 14:04
I stayed with a group of boys from a church camp last summer at Plum Orchard. They were a select group that had "auditioned" for the hike from Amicalola to Rock Gap and they had been out a week or so and were in very high spirits. They carried a lot of equipment with them and ALL their food, no resupply so I know it is possible for you to make it all the way. Your kids need to be mentally prepared, though. Take into consideration what Dances With Mice says. I would like to see you guys make it all the way, but, maybe my expectations are high because I am a FL crackerhead myself. Signing off till Tuesday. See Ya!

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 14:24
The pizza is a given.......although my boys would probably prefer Taco Bell (bleah!).

Thanks for the advice DWM and GB.....will recalculate and get back to you guys!

MB

orangebug
10-19-2006, 16:25
You are getting good advice. Remember that even Lance Armstrong criticized Georgia's PUDS. Since you will have sag wagons working with you, you will be in very good shape to alter plans as you go along. Try to get the Chattahoochee National Forest map, which has pretty good detail on the small roads in the area.

You can't overstress the desireablity of stair/stadium climbing.

Cell phones are patchy, usually only good near main roads and a few peaks. Cingular appears to be the best network here.

I hope you will be "kind" on the initial days for 8-10 miles to allow legs to absorb the trauma/change.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 16:50
Cool......my carrier is Cingular....and it would just to be to leave messages regarding ETA's, any additional necessities, etc.......

And trust me, the opinions are welcomed.....that's why I asked.

Dances with Mice
10-19-2006, 19:10
You are getting good advice. Remember that even Lance Armstrong criticized Georgia's PUDS. And he only saw the gaps.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 20:55
OK, guys.....plan #2

Added two days, and took it light on the first two as well.

Leave Bay Area on a Friday morning and get to Amicalola Fri. night to camp.

Sat. AM - Drive to Springer parking and hike to Hawk Mtn., maybe stopping to see Long Creek Falls - 8.6 miles (including the .9 to hike to beginning of AT at Springer)

Sunday - Leave Hawk to explore "cave" at Justus Mtn (great idea DWM, will have to get with you later on where the cave is) and arrive at Gooch - total 7.3 miles

Monday - Leave Gooch and head to either Woods Hole or Blood Mtn. - probably Blood Mtn. for the large cabin - 13.2 miles.

Tues. - Leave Blood Mtn. for Low Gap. - 13.0 miles.

Weds. - Leave Low Gap for Tray Mtn. (or Cheese Factory if they can't make it) - 14.9 miles.

Thurs. - Leave Tray Mtn. for Deep Gap - 7.1 miles.

Fri. - Leave Deep Gap (GA) for Plumorchard - 7.8 miles.

Sat. - Leave Plumorchard for Deep Gap (NC). Get picked up and taken to Standing Indian for hot showers and camp.

Sun. - Leave for return trip to FLA.


Is that more doable?

orangebug
10-19-2006, 21:02
I like this schedule as you have more wiggle room for changes in conditions.

Only, do not plan on staying in Blood Mtn Shelter. It is vile, and your kids will be sick of the mice. There are no campsites up there, really. Either plan on Woods Hole or going on down to Neel's Gap and camping a bit behind Mountain Crossings or near the junction of Freeman Trail down to Byron Reese Parking lot.

Expect the Cheese Factory and be very please if you hit Tray. there are multiple great sites between Tray and Deep Gap.

Have Fun!

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 21:09
I was thinking more of Slaughter Creek Campsite just south of Blood, but you're right......Woods it is. Would it be to far from Woods Hole then, to go on to Low Gap? Really don't want to stay at Whitley Gap if at all possible......don't want the boys to close to the roads for safety reasons.

And if there is anywhere I would like to push them just a little, it is to reach the Tray shelter.......heard the view was excellent.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 21:12
And is Gooch to Hawk/Slaughter Creek decent, even though it's about 12-13 miles?

Blood to Low Gap at 13.0?

Other than those two legs, all days are less than 10 miles.

Monkeyboy
10-19-2006, 21:13
Correction, three days.

drdewrag
10-19-2006, 21:38
Wow! You guys ARE biting off a pretty big one... But, more power to y'all. If this is what you've talked about, go for it

About the cell phone reception - intermittent at best - regardless of company you use. Usually, the higher up you are the better reception you'll get. Have a great time!

Mountain Man
10-19-2006, 21:56
I was thinking more of Slaughter Creek Campsite just south of Blood, but you're right......Woods it is. Would it be to far from Woods Hole then, to go on to Low Gap? Really don't want to stay at Whitley Gap if at all possible......don't want the boys to close to the roads for safety reasons.

And if there is anywhere I would like to push them just a little, it is to reach the Tray shelter.......heard the view was excellent.

They are tent pads as you are going up the south side of Blood Mt. which is a lot better choice than Woods hole or the shelter on Blood. After you pass the water source on the right going up. The rest looks good.

Dances with Mice
10-19-2006, 22:13
Whitley's not near a road. Maybe on the map it looks like it's near a road, but it's probably the most isolated, secluded shelter on the entire AT. From Whitley you could bypass Low Gap and stay at Blue Mtn shelter the next night. From Blue you can skip Tray and stay at Deep Gap, but that's kind of a long day too. Check the mileages. Call Whitley 1.5 miles off the trail, so add 3 miles if you stay there.

The "cave" on Justus Mtn is just a rock overhang near the top of the first climb. Can't miss it going northbound. There's even a little sidetrail to it, maybe 3 or 4 boys can check it out at once.

Be aware that once you leave Hawk Mtn there is no water for the next six miles, the longest dry stretch of your hike.

orangebug
10-19-2006, 23:19
Which is a nice reason to have a sag wagon to bring some water to Cooper Gap.

The section just of east of Neel's Gap is pretty level until you descend into Testnatee Gap. Then there is a pointless climb up and over the hill above the road heading over to Hog Pen Gap. There are essentially no views. The shelter is WAY off trail but has good water. I'd suggest a road walk to HogPen and thence to Low Gap. And Blood to Low Gap is do-able, especially with the road walk.

I'd guess that Gooch to Slaughter is pretty reasonable. If you used the stick and carrot, they might push on to Neel's Gap if they knew there was ice cream to be had at Mtn Crossings.

Remember our days are getting shorter, and it is harder to pump out big miles without a pretty good pace. Camp setup and cleanup really needs to be efficient.

Dances with Mice
10-20-2006, 06:16
Remember our days are getting shorter, and it is harder to pump out big miles without a pretty good pace. Camp setup and cleanup really needs to be efficient.They're planning their hike for next summer.

Monkeyboy
10-20-2006, 07:44
Thanks for all the input.....you guys are great!

Will tell you more as the day next summer approaches.....the boys are totally stoked!

Monkeyboy
10-20-2006, 08:31
Wow! You guys ARE biting off a pretty big one... But, more power to y'all. If this is what you've talked about, go for it

About the cell phone reception - intermittent at best - regardless of company you use. Usually, the higher up you are the better reception you'll get. Have a great time!


And I see that this is your first post, so let me be the first to say :welcome

Gray Blazer
10-26-2006, 10:53
Standing Indian Campground is a very popular camping spot. I don't know if they take reservations, but, you may want to try and make them now.