View Full Version : Are multiple thru hikes a selfish act?
Considering the contributions one could make to society in 4-6 months do you think that doing multiple thru hikes is a selfish act? Should a person, once they have accomplished what is many times a life altering experience, try to give back (which fortunately does seem to happen a lot) or just go their merry way hiking the trail over and over?
Lone Wolf
10-30-2006, 16:12
Hell no it ain't selfish! It's all about choices. Go your merry way and hike again. And again and again...:)
the goat
10-30-2006, 16:14
some people consider one thru hike a selfish act.
i guess it's all in one's perception of such things. there's time for "giving back" in the off-season, also there's nothing wrong with "giving back" from time-to-time during your hike.
SGT Rock
10-30-2006, 16:23
No one else benifits from your walking the trail. So yes it is done for self gratification. If it also impacts on others negativly, like your wife, kids, and whoever else, then it could be considered selfish. Doing it more than once, that doesn't change anything, it more depends on who else it impacts on than how many times you do it.
What SGT Rock said. It varies from person to person.
I will say that some humans have an uncanny ability to rationalize just about any behavior, no matter how much it hurts the ones who love us the most.
It's possible to give back while hiking (or "wandering"). There are lots of subtle ways to impact the world positively.
orangebug
10-30-2006, 17:08
Anything designed to benefit an individual is "selfish." However, if one doesn't be selfish enough to take care of themself, no one else will do it for them.
ridgewalker777
10-30-2006, 17:18
Thanks for the topic. It all depends on choices...Are responsibilities being avoided, work, family, society, etc.--are people being let down? Is the huge expenditure of energy and resources sapping other's energy, or does it matter? Columnist George Will once slammed some Appalachian Trail hiking as a cop-out and regretible. I suppose it depends on the individual. Do we stay in contact with loved ones, send letters, emails, postcards, call, etc.? The occasional rebuke or conscience-prod is much needed in civil society. When we hit the Trail, however, it is hard for others to "reach" us if we are avoiding matters that will have to be addressed at some point anyway...
mweinstone
10-30-2006, 17:32
i plan on hiking this single trail as much as i can in the long years left to me.i need at least 16 hikes. but more is more like it. id like to pack Legs in my pack on a thru and carry him to maine. i think that could be fun if in the future. its not enough to carry packs, if we were to carry oldtimers,.. now that would be cool. i would be proud if an old hiker wanted to ride in my pack. they have to be light though. under a hundred please.
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2006, 18:14
Lugnut:
If one completes a "life altering experience" and finds it an overwhelmingly positive thing to have done, then what on earth is wrong with repeating it?
And many repeat thru-hikers spend a great deal of time in later years meeting with, talking with, and corresponding with folks who are planning to have a similarly "life altering experience."
Speaking only for myself, my multiple hikes have put me in a position to be of use to a great many people over the years, especially men and women who are contemplating their first long-distance hike. I also have become active in several Trail related organizations; have done some Trail maintenance and helped with Trail maintenance projects; I've helped out in Trail Outfitters at the height of thru-hiking season and in the process, have met with and assisted hundreds of hikers; I've taken part in the dispensing of a lot of Trail Magic and special events for hikers, and have done as much as I can to help out the hikers I meet each year along the Trail, either betwen Georgia and Maine, or here at home in Hanover.
This is how I've decided to, as you put it, "give back."
I'm sure virtually every other former thru-hiker has done likewise, in one way or another, and multiple thru-hikers tend to do even more, as they're much likelier to maintain an active role in the long-distance hiking community.
So the answer to your question, Lugnut, is no, I don't think there's anything
particularly "selfish" about hiking the Trail more than once, and I'm frankly surprised that anyone would think otherwise. From those whom much has been given, much is expected, and most of the multiple thru-hikers I know
try and give back as much as they can: For you to say that one either chooses to give back, or chooses to go their merry way hiking the Trail over and over is simply wrong......I know all sorts of folks who do both.
Cookerhiker
10-30-2006, 18:30
There are a helluva lot more selfish things people do to the detriment of the world and society than hiking the AT every year.
These are all about the answers I expected. I didn't start the thread as an accusation. A non-hiking friend said it seemed self centered (read selfish) to thru hike over and over rather than being a contributor to the good of all society (she's a democrat) and after that conversation it seemed like a reasonable question to ask. Carry on and smoke 'em if you got 'em.
Jan LiteShoe
10-30-2006, 18:38
Just look at all the trouble NON-hikers cause!
;-)
In the larger scheme of things - on the bell curve of life - I think you'd be doing the world a great big favor.
Spirit Walker
10-30-2006, 19:03
One of the ways that our thruhiking has an impact on non-hikers: by choosing to live our dreams, we give others the example that it is possible to live their dreams, whatever they may be.
I've met people who say, "I'd never hike a long trail, but someday I'd like to . . ." And I say, "Go for it." Most are afraid to take a chance, but a few really will travel the world, start a business, retire early, etc.
Many people believe that they have to toe the line, live their lives as society expects. We show them that there are other ways.
RockyTrail
10-30-2006, 19:04
Selfish? I guess that depends on what other obligations you may have taken on your plate, voluntarily or not. Each of us knows our own business and what has to be done. But our country is founded on freedom, and that means you are free to make your own choices in life. The trail is there to hike for those that want to do so, be it one time or twenty. Have at it, brother!
People used to say similar things to the Wright brothers for wasting all their spare time trying to learn how to fly. After all, man wasn't meant to fly, and the Wrights would have done much more "good for society" if they would just have been "normal"!
Just Jeff
10-30-2006, 19:07
Yes, it's selfish. So what?
Footslogger
10-30-2006, 19:09
Seems to me that "motive" is a big part of a selfish act.
Just check your motive ...
'Slogger
....rather than being a contributor to the good of all society (she's a democrat)
Leave it to a d*mmed Democrat to be thinking about what may be good for society as a whole. What's wrong with those people?
Tom
Ps. This isn't going to take the thread in a different direction, is it? :)
eric_plano
10-30-2006, 19:27
It sounds more like a socialist than democrat =p
I find it curious that Lugnut's friend feels everyone should be busy "contributing to society" instead of deciding and doing things for themselves :)
I tell people that when my kids are grown, i want to be like Kung Fu on TV, just walking from town to town solving problems in an hour and then moving on. Whats selfish about that??:D
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 20:37
I sometimes vote for Democrats, yet I still wonder why -- oh why???? -- does our society expect us to be constantly "giving back?" I mean, we're supposed to put work before family, and everything else before ourselves. We're not supposed to think of ourselves at all.
Some giving back is certainly expected, and the responsible thing to do as a citizen of this world, but do we have to give back 24/7? Can't we ever have anything of our own?
Personally, once is enough for me, but if someone wants to hike the trail over and over, whether they give back way more then they take like Jack, or not at all, then so what?
Rain Man
10-30-2006, 20:39
Leave it to a d*mmed Democrat to be thinking about what may be good for society as a whole. What's wrong with those people?
LOL... it ain't the Democrats that think that way, it's those dang Christians! The real ones, I mean!
Rain:sunMan
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Lone Wolf
10-30-2006, 20:41
Multiple thru-hikes are done by some smart sumbitches! I'm one of em.:) Lot a jealous folks out there. All about choices.
Considering the contributions one could make to society in 4-6 months do you think that doing multiple thru hikes is a selfish act?
This assumes that if one was not hiking, one would be feeding and clothing the poor, serving in community projects, discovering a cure for cancer, and ending civil war in third world countries. Most people who are thruhiking a second or third time wouldn't be doing any such things if they weren't hiking. They'd be working regular jobs, surfing the web, and posting the the big thread on the status of the Critic.
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 20:50
Smart or completely crazy!
Yep, I'm jealous. However, if I was able to take six months to do another adventure, it wouldn't be the same one over and over. So many other things to see and do in this world!
And if I spent my whole life hiking and biking all around the world, so what? Actually, who I'm really jealous of are the people who are able to "work to hike/bike." Somehow, I end up hiking and biking so I'm refreshed enough to go back to work....
Considering the contributions one could make to society in 4-6 months do you think that doing multiple thru hikes is a selfish act? Should a person, once they have accomplished what is many times a life altering experience, try to give back (which fortunately does seem to happen a lot) or just go their merry way hiking the trail over and over?
Whatever. One is not obligated to change the world -- or even a tiny part thereof. I tend to praise more those who both hike and/or maintain the trail, or just send money to protect the trail and its corridor.
But all contribute in at least small ways. I must admit, however, a bias. I tend to respect more those who work to protect the trail, rather than those who just walk the trail or talk about walking the trail.
Weary www.matlt.org
Just Jeff
10-30-2006, 22:12
Breaking even is enough. As long as someone is contributing enough to meet their needs and not mooching off of others, everything else is gravy. If they made the right decisions that they can take multiple thru-hikes w/o depending on others to meet their own responsibilities (whether it be food money, raising their kids, whatever), good on 'em.
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 22:14
We all fulfill our purposes in life, one way or another. Sometimes it has to do with "giving back" in ways so small, it makes a difference without anyone even noticing it.
No need to make it obvious, spend all your time doing it, or advertise that you do it. Everyone "gives back" in their own ways. Including people who spend all their time hiking.
Look at it conversely. A person who spends 4-6 months in the woods is contributing positively to society. That's 4-6 months they're not driving a car, not burning fossil fuels regularly, and not putting smog and emissions in the air. Yes they rely on automobiles for rides to towns. The amount of trash they produce is a lot less, and they also use a lot less electricity, water, gas, etc. They're not blasting an airconditioner all summer long and they're not flooding their lawns or washing their cars.
I agree that taking care of oneself is the greatest contribution to society. Most folks are unable of taking care and loving others until they love themselves. Do what you love. If everyone did that, the world would be in a much better place.
And yes, it's all about choices. If you decided to have kids, and get married, well picking up while your kids are still growing up could be viewed as selfish.
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 22:30
I could get blasted for this, but having kids could be construed as selfish. Doing just about anything you decide to do could be considered selfish, though.
Skidsteer
10-30-2006, 22:39
I could get blasted for this, but having kids could be construed as selfish. Doing just about anything you decide to do could be considered selfish, though.
:rolleyes: Pokey, do you have any kids?
Consider yourself blasted. ;)
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 22:44
He he! Yep, I got one. More of a menace to society than a contribution!
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 22:46
But the point is that anything -- anything at all -- that YOU decide to do with YOUR life could be construed as something selfish. Even something that seems like a contribution to society, or like "giving back," is ultimately something YOU wanted to do with YOUR time/life. And, conversely, what you do with your time/life is usually, in some way, a contribution to society.
Jan LiteShoe
10-30-2006, 23:00
Look at it conversely. A person who spends 4-6 months in the woods is contributing positively to society. That's 4-6 months they're not driving a car, not burning fossil fuels regularly, and not putting smog and emissions in the air. Yes they rely on automobiles for rides to towns. The amount of trash they produce is a lot less, and they also use a lot less electricity, water, gas, etc. They're not blasting an airconditioner all summer long and they're not flooding their lawns or washing their cars.
Bingo! A-Train gets one of the prizes.
Lugnut's is a question I have pondered myself before and concluded that for myself one thru-hike is enough. I admit to cusiosity regarding some places I have not yet seen now that the corridor is almost entirely protected and the trail has since been relocated in quite a few places. These more significant portions I will hike as I have the opportunities to do so until I have as much as practical completed all of the current A.T.
For a variety of reasons not only financial I believe my time better spent supporting the A.T. and those who have been taken captive by the dream of hiking the A.T. in its entirety rather than planning and completing additional multiple-month hikes myself. I find working and hiking with my local club more satisfying than I would another thru-hike.
I'm quite content to be a day hiker and I think day-hiking should be encouraged to a greater extent than what it seems to be since a larger number of people can enjoy that activity with greater benefit and less resource degradation to the A.T. as a result. I honestly think thru-hikes and thru-hiking are overrated.
I like the idea of people taking only as long as they need to revitalize themselves and then returning to the life they left temporarily or setting off in a new direction with a new outlook inspired by their experience on the A.T. I believe multiple thru-hikes could be considered a selfish activity, but whether or not it's so is something each individual should ask himself or herself. I don't think it's particularly useful or desireable for people to attempt to sit in judgement of others on this question.
Bingo! A-Train gets one of the prizes.
Yeah. Hikers are the ultimate conservationists. But they still should feel free to make a contribution to the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust. We are trying to save the highest peaks in Maine and need money.
www.matlt.org
Weary
Bingo! A-Train gets one of the prizes.
Yeah. Hikers are the ultimate conservationists. But they still should feel free to make a contribution to the Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust. We are trying to save the highest peaks in Maine and need money.
www.matlt.org (http://www.matlt.org)
Weary
If A-Train wins a cash prize, maybe he will consider donating it to MATLT.
Everything that anyone does is undertaken for their own selfish reasons. Period. Democrat, Republican, Trotskyite, Totalitarian Tree Hugger; all the same in this one respect. Understanding this becomes essential once you take a notion to embrace reality. Going on a thru hike which never ends is no more selfish than becoming a priest, or an environmentalist. Making your dreams come true sets a great example for others to follow their heart. What could be more helpful? Stirring the pot?
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 23:26
Fiddleburn, you got it just right. Rock on!
Weary, that's just plain awesome! Such a great way to sneak in a plug, I think I might just send a small contribution, just to reward your creative and opportunistic style. You can rock on, too!
Programbo
10-30-2006, 23:34
Hmmmm...I`m seeing this a different way....If one hikes the trail every year and then spends his or her non-thru hiking months on White Blaze sharing the latest info about the trail,lodgings and gear they gathered on their last thru then it benefits many and they should be encouraged.....However if they do a thru every year and then don`t take what they learned or discovered on it and use that to help others then I have to agree they are one selfish s.o.b.
Pokey2006
10-30-2006, 23:37
I agree that it's a nice thing to do, to share what you've learned with others. I'm having fun doing just that, until I go back to work and no longer have time. But no one should be obligated to do that, or made to feel bad because they don't. It's perfectly acceptable to do your hike, and never give a single thing back to the trail. There are plenty of us who do give a little something back, that it's not even required. In fact, there are so many trying to give back, it's causing it's own controversies. See the very interesting and important thread on trail magic for an idea...
Just Jeff
10-30-2006, 23:54
...and not putting smog and emissions in the air...
Untrue...there's another thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18389) here addressing this issue.
fiddlehead
10-31-2006, 00:12
Well, one could do what one wants to do in life.
Some people are consumers. others hike. which is selfish? making money and spending it on stuff you don't need but keep the economy fed so others can work? or hike and learn to live peacefully in the woods.
Some of us hike and still maintain a life helping others (i happen to sell long underwear and test my wares while hiking, others' write books about it or make movies)
calling it selfish is perhaps your own guilt trip.
certainly isn't mine.
i plan on hiking this single trail as much as i can in the long years left to me.i need at least 16 hikes. but more is more like it. id like to pack Legs in my pack on a thru and carry him to maine. i think that could be fun if in the future. its not enough to carry packs, if we were to carry oldtimers,.. now that would be cool. i would be proud if an old hiker wanted to ride in my pack. they have to be light though. under a hundred please.
NOW THAT WOULD BE SELFISH, CAUSE OL LEGS WOULD WANNA WALK BESIDE YA, IN FRONT OF YA AND HOPE THAT YOU COULD KEEP THE PACE. DAMN MAN I AINT THAT OLD YET, STILL GOTTA LOTTA WALKIN LEFT IN ME. SEE YA ON THE TRAIL, YOUNG'UN!!!!! JUST REMEMBER, WE WOULD BE HIKIN, TOWNS ARE FOR RESUPPLY AND BEER, SHELTERS SUCK, AND MOTELS DONT EXIST ON THE AT. YA READY?
I am ready, hikin` with Da LEGS would be grande indeed, I might could keep up fer a ways anyway ! Surely couldnt carry ya heh,
RAT
These are all about the answers I expected. I didn't start the thread as an accusation. A non-hiking friend said it seemed self centered (read selfish) to thru hike over and over rather than being a contributor to the good of all society (she's a democrat) and after that conversation it seemed like a reasonable question to ask. Carry on and smoke 'em if you got 'em.
What does being a "democrat" have to do with being selfish or thru-hiking? Thru-hiking or multiple thru-hiking is not political in nature. Regardless, I'm sure you could find republicans that think the same way.
SGT Rock
10-31-2006, 06:45
Yes, how did that happen. This isn't even in the political forum.
well I believe thats a personal question anyway you look at it.Some folks have different responsibilitys than others,kids ect ect.ky
Footslogger
10-31-2006, 10:18
As I ponder this thread a bit more I do remember having considerable misgivings about giving notice and quiting my job to go for a long walk, especially as my start date grew near.
I must have told my wife (also a thru-hiker) dozens of times that I felt a bit irresponsible about the decision but I don't remember ever feeling "selfish".
That said, she and I have begun plans for our re-hike of the AT (this time together) and we'll see how the feelings flow as time goes by. But neither of us feel "selfish" about it. Like others have said ...it's about lifestyle choices.
'Slogger
SGT Rock
10-31-2006, 10:40
Well I consider what I am planning to do selfish. So I am doing everything I can to make allowances and include my family as much as possible. I reckon people that have no family or have actually built a life around hiking all the time have less of an issue with making sure they include and allow for these things.
RockyTrail
10-31-2006, 12:14
Look at it conversely. A person who spends 4-6 months in the woods is contributing positively to society. That's 4-6 months they're not driving a car, not burning fossil fuels regularly, and not putting smog and emissions in the air. Yes they rely on automobiles for rides to towns. The amount of trash they produce is a lot less, and they also use a lot less electricity, water, gas, etc. They're not blasting an airconditioner all summer long and they're not flooding their lawns or washing their cars.
Not taking sides here, but to be fair all those folks washing cars and blasting air-conditioners are not planting TP flowers all over the mountainsides so I guess it cuts both ways!
What does being a "democrat" have to do with being selfish or thru-hiking? Thru-hiking or multiple thru-hiking is not political in nature. Regardless, I'm sure you could find republicans that think the same way.
Because democrats are perceived as touchy-feely and more caring. Just an interesting side note. I have no opinion on whether that assumption is correct or not, and if I did I wouldn't be crazy enough to express it here! :D
heck, I just wanna hike one. If I can hike another one afterwards I will. I have help raise my kids, they will still be my kids and I will do what I can to help them but somewhere along the way I have to enjoy myself.
Rain Man
10-31-2006, 19:39
Because democrats are perceived as touchy-feely and more caring. Just an interesting side note. I have no opinion on whether that assumption is correct or not, and if I did I wouldn't be crazy enough to express it here! :D
That is a bit disengenuous, as you already expressed yourself here, by injecting the gratuitious political observation into the thread, and now claiming innocence of some sort, when plainly, you aren't. You did it. No one else. We aren't crazy.
Rain:sunMan
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Lone Wolf
10-31-2006, 20:09
John Kerry is touchy-feely. He likes the feel of Heinz catsup in his "area". Kinky liberal SOB.
John Kerry is touchy-feely. He likes the feel of Heinz catsup in his "area". Kinky liberal SOB.
What? You're a sicko.
Who would have ever guessed that the Republican's much awaited "October Surprise" would turn out to be John Kerry shooting off his mouth? :D
That is a bit disengenuous, as you already expressed yourself here, by injecting the gratuitious political observation into the thread, and now claiming innocence of some sort, when plainly, you aren't. You did it. No one else. We aren't crazy.
Rain:sunMan
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Spoken like a true lawyer. I concede. I've never won an argument with a lawyer yet! :D
RockyTrail
11-01-2006, 16:05
Lawyer:
"And where were you on the night of March 1st, 2003?"
Defendant:
"In a 3-sided hut on a mountain in Georgia with 25 other people, each
of us living out of a bag and trying to sleep on a plank floor....:eek:
KirkMcquest
11-01-2006, 18:45
Considering the contributions one could make to society in 4-6 months do you think that doing multiple thru hikes is a selfish act? Should a person, once they have accomplished what is many times a life altering experience, try to give back (which fortunately does seem to happen a lot) or just go their merry way hiking the trail over and over?
Just asking that question shows that your priorities are all screwed up, dude. You are free to spend your life doing whatever you care to do.
Jack Tarlin
11-01-2006, 19:19
Let the record show that on this singualar occasion, I agree with Mr. McQuest
100% !! :D
Jan LiteShoe
11-01-2006, 19:20
Lawyer:
"And where were you on the night of March 1st, 2003?"
Defendant:
"In a 3-sided hut on a mountain in Georgia with 25 other people, each
of us living out of a bag and trying to sleep on a plank floor....:eek:
Ha! Actually,that's EXACTLY where I was...:banana
Jan LiteShoe
11-01-2006, 19:22
Let the record show that on this singualar occasion, I agree with Mr. McQuest
100% !! :D
Make that a triple.
Butch Cassidy
11-01-2006, 19:40
Yes it's selfish, Even for me and I don't have anyone depending on me except for a few horses. There are grandkids who don't get to spend time with me. Elderly Parents who could use help now and then. I feel guilty in a way because on the trail is the way life should be for everyone. I did not hear one arguement. I saw thousands of acts of compassion and kindness, laughter. I wish the World could have the same type of lifestyle. I hope that prospective thruhikers don't confuse life here on Whiteblaze with life on the AT. Butch:)
Fly By Mike
11-01-2006, 20:43
Douse the guilt, Butch! I do understand, but living your life is nothing you need to guilt over. I hope by the time you get to White Cap you are over it. Cheers, mate!
On multiple thru hikes:
I admire and envy anyone who can complete one thru-hike. Now imagine how much that would increase on multiples !
Multiple thru-hikes are like multiple orgasms, you just cant get enough of em.
Kerry ? Definitely a "Kinky liberal SOB "
RAT
Just asking that question shows that your priorities are all screwed up, dude. You are free to spend your life doing whatever you care to do.
Thank You !
Considering the contributions one could make to society in 4-6 months do you think that doing multiple thru hikes is a selfish act? Should a person, once they have accomplished what is many times a life altering experience, try to give back (which fortunately does seem to happen a lot) or just go their merry way hiking the trail over and over?
Just asking that question shows that your priorities are all screwed up, dude. You are free to spend your life doing whatever you care to do.
Thank You!
Is KirkMcquest suggesting that Lugnut is free to spend his time posting thought-provoking questions for people to ponder?
Ha! Actually,that's EXACTLY where I was...:banana
I was there too! Hawk Mtn to be exact. About 20 of us there? Jan was scrunched in the shelter while my tent leaked on me. Good times...
Jan LiteShoe
11-02-2006, 08:39
I was there too! Hawk Mtn to be exact. About 20 of us there? Jan was scrunched in the shelter while my tent leaked on me. Good times...
So Train, are you going to be a "multiple?":sun
So Train, are you going to be a "multiple?":sun
Outlook quite positive in the near future
Lone Wolf
11-02-2006, 22:53
Can dudes have multiples? Viagra must work wonders. Gotta get me some.
You dont need Viagra Wolf, you have Gypsy, thats plenty nuff :)
HAIRNT !
RAT
KirkMcquest
11-03-2006, 08:26
Is KirkMcquest suggesting that Lugnut is free to spend his time posting thought-provoking questions for people to ponder?
That's correct! Lugnut now has my full permission and support to live his life.