View Full Version : Infamous trowel (poop shovel) question...
bigmontana
11-01-2006, 12:28
What type of trowel do you use?
Lone Wolf
11-01-2006, 12:30
a stick or a rock.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-01-2006, 12:32
2 oz orange trowel with 6" marker on blade (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=13940)
After all these years, I still carry the orange trowel....no one will make me give it up!!!!!
stick, rock, trekking pole (depending on the softness of the ground)
bigmontana
11-01-2006, 12:50
$130+ for a trowel?!?!?!
http://www.ula-equipment.com/helix.htm
johnny quest
11-01-2006, 13:13
back in the day it was a marine corps kabar fighting knife. the original multi-tool
halftime
11-01-2006, 13:15
The orange trowell has been in my pack for a long time. Have thought about retiring it but the small added weight does make LNT much easier.
Right now I'm using the famous AT trowel from the ATC webstore
saimyoji
11-01-2006, 13:35
The orange trowell has been in my pack for a long time. Have thought about retiring it but the small added weight does make LNT much easier.
I don't carry one, but I'm sure the last place it would go would be IN my pack. :-? :D
halftime
11-01-2006, 14:21
I don't carry one, but I'm sure the last place it would go would be IN my pack. :-? :D??? If you did carry one...where would you carry it?
FYI I do keep it wrapped in a plastic bag and in an outside pocket.
I'll be using one of my titanium stakes that I use to keep my hammock tarp staked down with.
johnny quest
11-01-2006, 14:31
i wouldnt think it would be that dirty. that plastic sheds dirt easy. and you dont get the potty on it!
I use, in no order.
Stick, tent stake, heal of my boot, move a rock or log & go under it, etc.
Doctari.
johnny quest
11-01-2006, 16:39
does anyone ever remember seeing the orange plastic trowell with a hollow handle that the small toiltet paper rolls would go into? it was waterproof.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-01-2006, 16:50
JQ, I had one of those and it worked well. Alas, my ex has it now (he swiped a bunch of my camping gear one day while I was at work during our divorce)
johnny quest
11-01-2006, 17:00
i have tried to find one and cant. i am assuming the company that made them no longer does. i would love to get one.
I don't carry one, but I'm sure the last place it would go would be IN my pack
Why, it doesnt get poo on it ? I wouldnt carry one anyway, I use my boot, a stick, etc and usually lay sticks and/or rocks on top after burying so`s no one or no thing will dig there again by mistake.
What a crappy topic :)
RAT
hikerjohnd
11-01-2006, 17:18
Homemade Ti trowel (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=10650&catid=member&imageuser=4507) - I was shedding ounces and stumbled across this project - easy to make, weighs nothing, solid as a rock.
Alligator
11-01-2006, 17:24
i have tried to find one and cant. i am assuming the company that made them no longer does. i would love to get one.
http://www.eders.com/Little-John-Shovel-p3596c76-path0.html?&Customer_id=4359376&st3=TSQWT689398219
REI makes a wide, 1-oz. aluminum tent stake (1" wide and 9 1/2" tall) that's great for cat-hole digging. It's sold as an "SMC Sno-Tent Stake" and costs $1.75. It's more durable than the traditional 3 1/2 oz. orange plastic trowel and cuts through roots better. The 7-oz. version ATC sells is the "deluxe" version best saved for long day-hikes.
Without one of the above implements, or something similar, it's pretty hard to dig a cathole of the dimensions recommended by Leave No Trace (6-8" deep and 4-8" wide (see http://archive.lnt.org/TeachingLNT/background/dispose.php for the finer points), but I know there are some incredibly talented boots out there.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
saimyoji
11-01-2006, 19:15
All I meant was that an item like this would be secured to the outside of MY pack. There is enough competition for space on the inside, a trowel would definately get last priority.
YMADV
Cookerhiker
11-01-2006, 19:18
Very lightweight metal garden trowel
saimyoji
11-01-2006, 19:18
All I meant was that an item like this would be secured to the outside of MY pack. There is enough competition for space on the inside, a trowel would definately get last priority.
YMADV
Not worried about poop getting inside your packs, I'm assuming since you can join this message board and post legible messages that you are intelligent enough not to store poop inside your pack. Unless thats what you ARE doing, on purpose, of course, in which case I applaud you for 'packing it out'....poop that is.
This is a crappy topic.
But its good to shoot the ***** sometimes.
wilderness bob
11-01-2006, 19:31
A trowel, more dead weight. Use the heal of your boot and let it rot in the duff. If there are dogs in the area, cover your waste with a heavy stone. My Doberman, Dike (long gone now), would come back to camp with breath that would knock a buzzard of a s##t wagon. No joke. Of course she would want to sit right next to you and pant. She also had the bad habit of eating cigarette butts off of the ground, weird dog. That is why I liked her.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=272&parent_category_rn=4500663&vcat=REI_SEARCH
doodah man
11-01-2006, 21:32
REI makes a wide, 1-oz. aluminum tent stake (1" wide and 9 1/2" tall) that's great for cat-hole digging.
That REI tent stake is what I use also. (file off all the tool-marks/burrs/sharp-edges so it will be easy on the hand). doodah-man
Spirit Walker
11-01-2006, 23:22
Tent stake. I broke a couple of the orange trowels and decided to go for something that works better in rocky soil. An ice axe works great too, when you're hiking in hard snow.
Jester2000
11-01-2006, 23:50
i used my boot
What are all of you crazy people doing pooping in your boots? That can't be a good idea.
I do own a orange trowel. Problem is it's pretty far down the checklist of critical items that "I must not forget," so it may have been used twice..........In 10 years........Maybe. :rolleyes:
Honestly, the only reason I think I bought it was it was on a checklist. Hey, if it's on the checklist, it must be important, right? Right? Bueller? Oh well, guess not. :) Sticks and stones, they dig fine holes.......
What type of trowel do you use?
An ugly Orange one i've carried...til my bud, "Model T" told me..."use your boot heel"!:D
Thanks to Spiritwalker and Bald Eagle for tipping me off to the REI sno-stake a few years ago. Last year REI donated a number of the Sno-stakes to ATC to give out to ridgerunners and as prizes for quiz-takers at Trail Days.
By the way, there was a typo in my previous post. LNT tecommended cathole width is 4-6 inches.
It's amazing, how many hikers you see at Springer with the orange shovels hanging from their pack. The farther North you travel, the less and less you see them. Either they have been disgarded, to lighten the load, or folks just start hiding them from view.:-?
Tent stake. I broke a couple of the orange trowels and decided to go for something that works better in rocky soil. An ice axe works great too, when you're hiking in hard snow.
Cut an 1 1/2 inch off the top and 1 1/2 inch off the bottom and it's a lot more durable.
The only thing that should be on your trowel is dirt... you know, where you dug the hole... why would you have poo on the trowel? Dig the hole w/ trowel, do your business, and push the dirt back over w/ boot-shoe-stick. Unless youre making poo-stew with your trowel, it shouldnt be poo-ey.
Aw, you guys, you missed describing the fun part: stirring dirt into your poop! This hastens decomposition and makes it less likely that animals will try to dig up your little pile in the earth. By the way, do the stirring with a stick, not your trowel/tent stake/bootheel. It's suggested that put this stick back into your hole, but if you've found that perfect stirring stick you can carry it with you for the next time if you really want to.
Aw, you guys, you missed describing the fun part: stirring dirt into your poop! This hastens decomposition and makes it less likely that animals will try to dig up your little pile in the earth. By the way, do the stirring with a stick, not your trowel/tent stake/bootheel. It's suggested that put this stick back into your hole, but if you've found that perfect stirring stick you can carry it with you for the next time if you really want to.
Well that's sort of similar to the technique I use - I use a stick to stir the toilet paper into the crap and often a fair amount of dirt also gets mixed in but to really deter the canines I piss on the stirred up mess before covering it over with the dirt. Lastly I take the stiring stick and shove it crappy end down into the freshly covered pile so that the next crapper will know from the stick pointing up to dig somewhere else.
longshank
11-04-2006, 09:27
Usually I become sync'ed with when I arrive and depart from shelters that I go twice in the morning and once at night. Needing a trowel is a non-issue for me. But we can't all be as disciplined as I am. If an emergency comes up, well, I do like the bears do.
halftime
11-04-2006, 10:36
Usually I become sync'ed with when I arrive and depart from shelters that I go twice in the morning and once at night.
So your're the one who has been pooping in the shelters?
longshank
11-04-2006, 10:40
So your're the one who has been pooping in the shelters?
Only on the top bunks...
johnny quest
11-04-2006, 11:24
Well that's sort of similar to the technique I use - I use a stick to stir the toilet paper into the crap and often a fair amount of dirt also gets mixed in but to really deter the canines I piss on the stirred up mess before covering it over with the dirt. Lastly I take the stiring stick and shove it crappy end down into the freshly covered pile so that the next crapper will know from the stick pointing up to dig somewhere else.
that very possibly may have been TMI for some but it is a chore we deal with daily on the trail and i think worthy of discussing technique. and i think yours is a good one. i read somewhere about a fellow who carried one of those cheap three legged backless campstools. he cut out the middle of the fabric seat and carried it with him. used it to do his business. in camp he put a foam cushion on it to sit on. a luxury item to be sure, but at least it is one that is multipurpose and gets lots of use.
LostInSpace
11-04-2006, 12:48
i read somewhere about a fellow who carried one of those cheap three legged backless campstools. he cut out the middle of the fabric seat and carried it with him. used it to do his business. in camp he put a foam cushion on it to sit on. a luxury item to be sure, but at least it is one that is multipurpose and gets lots of use.
Don't the three legs cross in the middle?
johnny quest
11-04-2006, 14:40
good point. the ones im thinking of do. either a) it was built different or b) it was not true or c) that was one nasty campstool.
However one digs the receptacle for the deposit, once the back is turned and the shot is made, it is far to easy to miss and more often than not there is no follow-up round.
Since the distance is short, neither elevation or windage is much of a factor, but 'firing blind' takes practice to master, more so than just diigging out the hole. Its exasperating to turn around and view the shot's impact, only to find it dangling precariously above the rim of the target area. In such case i would hope that just a stick was used for the digging. It would be handy to use it to relocate the shot to where it should have gone in the first place-better than a tent peg you might want to re-use.
So, that being said, I usually just find a stick for my digging...just in case:D
But, others might be better shots:)
However one digs the receptacle for the deposit, once the back is turned and the shot is made, it is far to easy to miss and more often than not there is no follow-up round.
Since the distance is short, neither elevation or windage is much of a factor, but 'firing blind' takes practice to master, more so than just diigging out the hole. Its exasperating to turn around and view the shot's impact, only to find it dangling precariously above the rim of the target area. In such case i would hope that just a stick was used for the digging. It would be handy to use it to relocate the shot to where it should have gone in the first place-better than a tent peg you might want to re-use.
So, that being said, I usually just find a stick for my digging...just in case:D
But, others might be better shots:)
Another thought on such a deep subject. Its far better to fire long than to make a short shot:D
Now that would be embarrassing!
make the deposit FIRST, then dig the hole and scoop it in. I mean, if you are really that worried about hitting the hole; this will alleviate the worry.
stickman
11-06-2006, 19:05
I use a tent stake, the kind that has a scooped blade so its suitable for use in snow or sand. It is aluminum, plenty strong for digging, and doubles for use as a hold-down on my tarp.
Stickman
sirbingo
11-08-2006, 17:40
I use the orange trowel.
I swear I poop better when I have it. The few times I left it behind I was totally constipated! :( Not fun!
jasonklass
11-27-2006, 21:37
Maybe you've already seen mine. (http://www.freewebs.com/jasonklass/titaniumtrowel.htm) Works for all but the hardest ground in which case I take my Montbell Handy Scoop.
I use the orange trowel.
I swear I poop better when I have it. The few times I left it behind I was totally constipated! :( Not fun!
Carry Indian Food like I did this weekend. That'll fix ya! I had Bombay Potatoes Friday night and Lentils and Red Beans with assorted spices over rice on Saturday night. I don't care what color trowel you're carring, you follow that diet, and you'll be using it!
Skidsteer
11-27-2006, 22:38
Yes.
If an entree acquires the name of 'Bombay Potatoes' in the marketing phase, I would consider that a clue. :D
I guess one would hope that the bombay door would not want to open at an inopportune time with explosive results.:eek::D
saimyoji
11-27-2006, 23:13
What would you imagine Bangkok Noodles would do for you. :eek::-?:D
Not sure, because I use food for eating.:D
troglobil
11-27-2006, 23:19
My plastic trowel is green, not orange. When I first bought it many many years ago I could only imagine why it had inch markings on it. Bragging rights perhaps?
Troglobil, very funny post. Good stuff.:D
gearfreak
01-23-2008, 14:17
MSR Blizzard stake. :cool:
River Runner
01-23-2008, 17:22
MSR Snow Stake. Stronger & lighter than a plastic trowel.
Take my advice: just hold it. No need for trowel, t.p., and you'll save a lot of time and trouble. Check the math: 10 minutes per day (minimum) x 182 days (6 months) = 1825 minutes or over 30 hours. That means you would reach Katadin at least 3 days ahead of schedule! - it's a no-brainer!
envirodiver
01-23-2008, 18:06
I don't carry one, but I'm sure the last place it would go would be IN my pack. :-? :D
The only thing on the trowel should be dirt. The rule is aim well and no putting with the trowel.
I use a lightweight metal garden trowel, kept breaking the plastic ones, when it's time to dig, it ain't no time to fool around. However, I like the idea of the sno stake, I have to get me one o them, and it can have multiple uses.
I always learn something new here...ain't just sh****** you guys either
Personally I use a stick or the heel of my shoe (usually a combination of both).
I do have it on pretty good authority, however, that The Mountaineers in Seattle recommend against trowels, sticks, tent stakes, or anything similar. When hiking in Alpine areas, they suggest (or did at one time) using just a piece of chalk. When in camp, place the chalk at some agreed upon location. When nature calls, retrieve the chalk (if it's gone, wait your turn), walk away from camp, choose a likely looking rock, flip it, make your deposit, re-position the rock, mark it with an "X". Return the chalk to it's rightful place.
This method reduces disturbing delicate Alpine soil, and enables the campers to avoid turning over an already used rock. Eventually the chalk will just wash away. Apparently this works well in remote, seldom visited areas.
kayak karl
01-23-2008, 22:32
i dig the hole with my helmet:D
when i need to poop ... i need to poop, and i don`t play around whit sticks, home made spoon "trowels,, and other 1 inch wide gizmo's, i just like my underwear clean so i dig A hole fast whit the iPood! , it is in my photos.;)
I do have it on pretty good authority, however, that The Mountaineers in Seattle recommend against trowels, sticks, tent stakes, or anything similar. When hiking in Alpine areas, ...
Key word is alpine areas. It all depends on the soil moisture, freeze/thaw, etc. On the AT, you're not supposed to disturb the alpine soils, no? So go below treeline and dig a cat hole. This is supposed to be in the active humus layer of the soil, and deep enough that most animals won't bother to dig it up. The active layer depth varies considerably, but sometimes local guides will indicate a depth to use. That is what the inch markings on the trowel are for (also useful for planting depth for bulbs and seeds, but whatever). Usually about 4 to 6in down is good, then lay the divot back over the scat heap and tamp lightly (making sure not to make a mess on your shoes). I also try to make the hole beside a bush or tree, while avoiding damage to the roots. Helps other people to avoid the mess. You can also lean up against the tree while you're ... waiting.
This is the theoretical approach. Lots can go wrong, like nothing coming for a while and then a whole, huge steaming pile that swamps your cute little cat hole. Or the charming and alluring explosive diarrhea. If these are your problem, just try not to pollute any waterways, and hid the mess as well as you can. Drag a tree trunk over it or something. Or dig a proper latrine trench. What did you eat at that town stop anyway? Disgusting.
Who asked for this discussion anyway? I guess everybody has a latrine story.
Key word is alpine areas. It all depends on the soil moisture, freeze/thaw, etc. On the AT, you're not supposed to disturb the alpine soils, no? So go below treeline and dig a cat hole. This is supposed to be in the active humus layer of the soil, and deep enough that most animals won't bother to dig it up. The active layer depth varies considerably, but sometimes local guides will indicate a depth to use. That is what the inch markings on the trowel are for (also useful for planting depth for bulbs and seeds, but whatever). Usually about 4 to 6in down is good, then lay the divot back over the scat heap and tamp lightly (making sure not to make a mess on your shoes). I also try to make the hole beside a bush or tree, while avoiding damage to the roots. Helps other people to avoid the mess. You can also lean up against the tree while you're ... waiting.
This is the theoretical approach. Lots can go wrong, like nothing coming for a while and then a whole, huge steaming pile that swamps your cute little cat hole. Or the charming and alluring explosive diarrhea. If these are your problem, just try not to pollute any waterways, and hid the mess as well as you can. Drag a tree trunk over it or something. Or dig a proper latrine trench. What did you eat at that town stop anyway? Disgusting.
Who asked for this discussion anyway? I guess everybody has a latrine story.
everybody POOP`S :D:D
I responded "other". The "other" usually being the shoe of my heel. If the ground is too hard, I'll use a stick.
Why would it make a difference, anyway????
... the shoe of my heel. If the ground is too hard, I'll use a stick.
Why would it make a difference, anyway????
Well, in heavy use areas, say from around Springer north for a couple of thousand miles, the idea is to avoid leaving little piles of scat (and TP) for other people to admire and trip over. As dog owners know, animals like to ... use ... the fecal material for their own purposes, which park authorities, and dog owners, frown upon. Something about transmission of parasites and disease organisms. So they want the stuff buried out of sight and smell, although I doubt that will fool your average woodland animal. This requires that the feces be buried, preferably not a danger to foot or nose, and also to be contained in the active biological layer of the soil, so the worms and bugs can deal with it promptly, which, conveniently, they will. The usual phrases go something like, to expedite breakdown and absorption of the material, or words to that effect. This does not happen in alpine and arid places like Grand Canyon, where my understanding is that you are required to pack it out with you. Special tubes are available for this purpose, and convenient disposal sites at the trailhead. On the whole, I think I prefer a cat hole.
There's a nice little book about all this. How to **** in the Woods. Borrow one and read it. Cute stories and all the poop, so to speak.
I use a stick. Sometimes a tent stake if the ground is hard. I keep one tied to a strap of my pack.
I used to dig down into soil, but now i don't dig so deep so that the "organic waste processing function" can have its chance to work. I always cover with extra sticks and rocks, to reduce someone else doing it.
Seeing TP blossoms where people have left evidence of their crap (or women's pee) along a trail or campsite drives me nuts!
I also use brown (organic) napkin parts (from places like Taco Bell) to wipe. Figure if a critter digs up my waste, at least there won't be that damn white TP around!
Patrickjd9
01-24-2008, 23:12
i used my boot
Another vote for boot, with a change to stick if needed.
I adapted the 'alpine smear' technique for the AT
I call it the 'shelter smear'
I don't carry one, but I'm sure the last place it would go would be IN my pack. :-? :D
WHY?
Your not supposed to poop on IT, then drop it in the hole.
I do the boot method when it works, then go to the trowel if I need it.
fraufrack
10-03-2008, 02:23
I don't carry one, but I'm sure the last place it would go would be IN my pack. :-? :D
What does it matter if you're only shoveling dirt? I don't shovel my poo; I just dig a hole to poo into.
fraufrack
10-03-2008, 02:41
Sorry I was only like the hundredth person to say the same thing in response to saimyoji. This has been a very informative discussion.
NICKTHEGREEK
10-03-2008, 05:57
JQ, I had one of those and it worked well. Alas, my ex has it now (he swiped a bunch of my camping gear one day while I was at work during our divorce)
Taking a guy's $hit-kit is just plain mean.
Homer&Marje
10-03-2008, 07:34
Ol' Orangy
dessertrat
10-03-2008, 10:35
I don't carry one, but I'm sure the last place it would go would be IN my pack. :-? :D
It's easy, you don't crap on the trowel, you just dig a hole with it.:rolleyes:
Valentine
10-03-2008, 11:21
Use the multi use principle, use a snow tent stake (1"-2" wide, 8" long and 1-2ozs. It is wide, light and strong. If fact it is better than the original $1.99 orange plastic one I bought.
Tent stake I found long ago. Alum., thick (3/16") Good digging tool. Folks that don't dig a pit of sufficient depth and try to get by with a boot heel and stick would benifit the trail greatly if they stopped contributing to the littering of the trail.
trouthunter
10-03-2008, 22:17
Those of you who have dogs along, and are still digging your own holes need to ask your dog to "step up" !
HaHa :banana
DocSarvis
10-03-2008, 23:04
I want to meet the ONE (!!) person who uses the $150 carbon fiber catholer/ice axe-wannabee. I have a nice bridge for sale cheap. :D
I want to meet the ONE (!!) person who uses the $150 carbon fiber catholer/ice axe-wannabee. I have a nice bridge for sale cheap. :D
I saw several on the CDT this year, besides my own.
They must sell briskly. When I ordered mine, they were out of stock.:eek:
JaxHiker
10-16-2008, 11:18
I picked up a 3-tool set from Wally World with a small metal shovel. It cost .94 and the shovel only weighs 3.4oz. I just put it on a biner on the outside of the pack.
Lone Wolf
10-16-2008, 11:28
I picked up a 3-tool set from Wally World with a small metal shovel. It cost .94 and the shovel only weighs 3.4oz. I just put it on a biner on the outside of the pack.
what for?
saimyoji
10-16-2008, 11:43
slinging poop.
JaxHiker
10-16-2008, 13:39
what for?
Why did I get the shovel or why do I hang it outside? Hell, I'll answer both.
Former: To dig a poop hole if I have to. Or any other use where it might be handy (eg burying another hiker's body if necessary).
Latter: Cuz it's pointy on the end and I don't want it poking through anything. And I like the clang-clangy sound it makes as it bounces around while I walk. :)
I use this tool to dig catholes.. (http://www.ula-equipment.com/helix.htm).
what for?
That is what I am wondering. I have always used a stick or rock. No problems finding one or the other and they have always worked. If there weren't either one then my heel would work. I guess on other trails where the ground is different maybe. I haven't ventured out west yet.
wrongway_08
10-16-2008, 15:53
$150.00 poop hole digger??? Thats crazy! Same people that buy junk arse Hummers to go pick up food at the store. . . :rolleyes: . More money then brains. :eek:
I just use a stick.
$150.00 poop hole digger??? Thats crazy! Same people that buy junk arse Hummers to go pick up food at the store. . . :rolleyes: . More money then brains. :eek:
I just use a stick.
Well, it is a bit of an inside joke.
Notice how it looks like an ice axe?
But, you have to go through much hoops (and money) to be officially certified to call something an ice axe by the UIAA (http://www.theuiaa.org/uiaa_safety_labels.php)and or CE (http://www.dmmclimbing.com/about.asp?id=21) mountaineer boards/groups. More than a cottage lightweight gear manufacturer may want to go through.
So, it is not an ice axe. It is a high tech potty trowel that happens to look and act like a very lightweight ice axe that many PCT hikers could use in the Sierra.
Makes great cat holes...
:sun
sheepdog
10-16-2008, 16:45
I really like a tool that can multi task. Cat hole maker, shelter mouser, emergency food source. :D
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Domestic_cat_cropped.jpg/180px-Domestic_cat_cropped.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Domestic_cat_cropped.jpg)
SouthMark
10-16-2008, 17:03
I use this. And why? Just because I want to.
http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=42&p_id=1124258
mkmangold
10-16-2008, 17:37
I use this. And why? Just because I want to.
http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=42&p_id=1124258
I use my finger.
Siegeofmalta
10-24-2008, 20:52
Too bad the ole army shovel is so big and heavy. It sure worked good. Me, I use the ole little orange plastic shovel and dream of the army shovel days.