View Full Version : On Being a House Guest
Jack Tarlin
11-07-2006, 13:42
I've been meaning to write this for awhile; it was another thread I saw today on hostels and what people expected of them that prompted me to set this down:
This summer, for the first time since 1995, I didn't do much hiking. That was the bad news.
The good news is that by being home in Hanover for August and early September, I was able to meet with hundreds of hikers, some for the first time, and some who I'd met down South, or in Duncannon, or places in between.
The Dartmouth dorms were taking in very few hikers this year, and I was lucky enough to be living in an empty house less than a mile from town, so we decided to take in hikers.
We probably ended up with close to 200 by the end of the season.
All in all, it was a great experience, and some folks stayed for almost a week, which was fine. There was plenty of room, beautiful tentsites, a great swimming hole, all within an easy walk of the Trail or downtown. We had cookouts at night and big communal breakfasts in the morning.
There were very few problems, and 99% of the folks who stopped by were wonderful.
However, it's that other 1% that were truly memorable!
A few quick comments to those who'll be hiking next year, on how to be a good house guest, and how to avoid becoming the houseguest from hell:
*Clean up after yourself. If you use the kitchen, clean up afterwards, stove,
dishes, etc. Your host is not your maid or your mom.
*Likewise, try and leave the bathroom/shower better looking than when you
entered it. Don't leave the place flooded; put your towels in the right place,
etc.
*Be considerate in the bathroom, especially if you know other folks are
waiting to use it. One hour showers are not cool.
*Cleaning your boots on bath towels is also not cool.
*In fact, if it's rainy or muddy out, try and leave your boots outside to avoid
tracking too much crap into the house.
*Don't hang out in the house, especially the living room, til you've cleaned up
a bit. I.e., before lying down on the sofa to watch a double-feature, jump
in the shower, especially if it's been awhile since your last one. Your host
shouldn't have to force you to get cleaned up.
*Unless specifically told to "Help yourself to anything that's in there!" do NOT
assume that food and drink in the kitchen or fridge is at your disposal.
Always ask first. And if you finish something up, like the orange juice or
the half and half for the coffee, let your host know, so they can replace it.
*Same goes for such things as shampoo, laundry soap, dish soap, etc.
*House supplies are NOT to be carried away with you. It is NOT your host's
responsibility to wipe your behind for the next three weeks, so even if
there's eight rolls of TP under the sink, it is not cool for you to steal one.
*Obey your host's requests regarding animals. I.e., if you know dogs aren't
cool, then don't bring 'em. If your host wants them on a leash or kept
outta the house, respect this. And for Christ's sake, clean up after your
damned pet. If I wanted a yard full of dogs***, I'd get a puppy.
*Don't use computers without asking, likewise, avoid "private" areas of
people's houses. Coming home and finding a hiker going thru my desk cuz
he was looking for a pair of pliers was not a happy moment, especially since
there was a "Private!" sign on the bedroom door.
*Likewise, don't use major appliances unless you've asked. Our washing
machine was acting weird and there was a big, un-missable sign on it that
said "Please ask Jack before using!!" and of course people routinely ignored
this. End result was we were without a washing machine for the better
part of a week til we could get the necesary part to fix it.
*Respect other people that are there, both residents and other guests. If
you're going to keep late hours, respect the folks that are sleeping. If
you're planning on leaving at five in the morning, do so as quietly as
possible.
*Just cuz there's a campfire at night doesn't mean people want to hear you
play guitar and sing, especially if you're terrible.
*Don't bring people back to the house, or direct other hikers to the house,
unless you've specifically asked if this is OK. I came home from work once
to discover eight strangers in my house who'd gotten a map to the place
from some other hikers. Not cool.
*Don't drink if you're underage, and don't "help out" hiker friends who are
minors. I really don't enjoy explaining to cops or people at the emergency
room why and how a drunk 19-year-old fell off my porch and cut his head.
*Don't use illegal drugs on anyone's property unless you absolutely know
it is cool to do so. Be aware that even if it's cool with the owner, many
hikers don't want to be around them.
*Don't steal. If you want to borrow a Trail map or a shirt, I'll happily lend
you one, and will let you know if I need it back. Walking outta my house
with stuff is not cool.
*Feel free to help out around the house, i.e. if you see something that
obviously NEEEDS to be done, like drying a load of towels or doing a sink-
ful of dishes, well just do it. Sweeping a floor won't kill you.
*Consolidate your stuff and keep it in one place. If stuff gets lost or goes
missing during your stay, this is YOUR responsibility.
*If there are communal meals where everyone is kicking in a few bucks, well
do your part. Nobody likes freeloaders. If you have eight dollars to spare
for a designer six-pack, then you can throw in on dinner like everyone else.
*Slackpacking, or long shuttles, costs money. Always ask your host if they'd
like some gas money. They may well turn your offer down and say "No,
thanks" but it can't hurt to offer.
*And lastly, get your host's address and send them a card or Katahdin shot.
People love hearing from hiker guests, and are always curious as to how
your trip ended up.
And that's that. In reading this over, I see that a lot of this applies to staying at hostels as well, especially the parts about helping out, doing a few needed chores, respecting other guests, etc. Running a hostel or having a dozen house guests every day is more work than you'd think, and there's always some way to make yourself useful.
Oh, one last thing. Arriving at a place and announcing your intention to stay for ten days is not the best way to introduce yourself to your host!!
And if anyone else out there has had experiences as a host (or guest!) that they want to share, by all means chime in.
Great post Jack! I agree 100%
TJ aka Teej
11-07-2006, 13:49
*And lastly, get your host's address and send them a card or Katahdin shot.
People love hearing from hiker guests, and are always curious as to how
your trip ended up.
Absolutley! Great post, Jack!
Two Speed
11-07-2006, 13:51
Almost as bad as agreeing with Neo, isn't it? No actually worse, but everything I saw in Jack's post looks exactly the way I'd want folks to behave at my bachelor pad/construction site/waste disposal pit-type condo.
OK, I'll quit yanking your chain for a minute, Jack. I'll second Sly and venture a "kludos" for a well written post. :sun
Footslogger
11-07-2006, 13:57
It's all common sense/basic courtesy level stuff. Probably should be printed up and displayed openly at all hostels along the trail.
Generous of you to take in hikers Jack.
'Slogger
SGT Rock
11-07-2006, 14:01
Sweet. Lets make that an article. Anyone else want to second that nomination?
the goat
11-07-2006, 14:03
Sweet. Lets make that an article. Anyone else want to second that nomination?
i second the nomination!
RITBlake
11-07-2006, 14:04
wow, great writeup. Well done Jack.
cannonball
11-07-2006, 14:22
good stuff. I would add don't monopolize the phone and definately no long distance calls.
If you are staying multiple days mowing the grass is a great way to pay it forward.
If you are staying multiple days mowing the grass is a great way to pay it forward.
Or sharing it! :D
TN_Hiker
11-07-2006, 14:30
It amazes me that Jack has to "spell out" how to be a gracious guest. Whatever happened to common courtesy and respect????
Lone Wolf
11-07-2006, 14:33
I live 60 yards off the AT and I never take hikers in. Wouldn't even think of it.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-07-2006, 14:34
I'll third the nomination for making this an article. Perhaps we could get some input from Miss Janet, Bob Peoples and others who have hostel in or very near their homes.
The Solemates
11-07-2006, 14:38
Great list, agree 100%. But like you said, it's that 1% that even if they read it they wouldn't care, which is the problem.
dixicritter
11-07-2006, 14:40
Couldn't agree more Jack! Very good! Definately should be an article.
It amazes me that Jack has to "spell out" how to be a gracious guest. Whatever happened to common courtesy and respect????
Well, for the most part hikers are courteous and respectful. Trying to get to the others is the hard part. Sometimes you have to spell it out.
Great post!! ans yes it needs to be in the article section and posted at all hostels.....
SGT Rock
11-07-2006, 14:47
Well, for the most part hikers are courteous and respectful. Trying to get to the others is the hard part. Sometimes you have to spell it out.
Also a good point. According to jack this is only about 1% of folks. So even if everyone had a copy the chances of it fixing the remaining 1% is slim. But at least hit helps a novice feel better before going to a hostel in case it is a new experience for them.
Kevin A. Boyce
11-07-2006, 14:50
This post should be in all trail books like ALDHA's or WF's... These are simple rules to 'live by' when living under someone else's roof...
Great post, I agree that this should be an article....
Jack Tarlin
11-07-2006, 15:02
I'd do it again in a heartbeat, but hopefully not next summer. Dunno where I'm gonna be, but it better not be Hanover!
Hopefully the 2% didn't violate every guideline you suggested. That would be a couple of disrespectful SOB's.:D
The Weasel
11-07-2006, 15:09
I like Jack's list; I'm minded of Rusty's Hard Time Hollow, as well as a few other places with a lot of signs. The one thing that's missing is the hammer, and it's needed for those One Per Centers (a few other California types will know what REAL "one percenters" are...and I hope Jack never gets THEM).
What I'm referring to is what Jack doesn't say he did (and may not): Break these rules and I may ask you to leave. The guy going through a desk for pliers? OUT. The people using other people's food? Barred from the kitchen. Whatever. But once in a while it's useful to hang someone from the town gates, so that new arrivals at least realize the risk they run from irking the local lord.
So Jack: I suspect you had so much fun you'll do this again. Why not add your take on the "or else" side of the list?
The Weasel
SGT Rock
11-07-2006, 15:11
Yes, if a one percenter came in, I suppose you would let them alone until they left.
While staying in a hostel in Monson a few months ago someone actually took a crap on the floor and nobody ever accepted the responsibility for it. I am happy that Jack’s assessment was only 1% of hikers don’t understand common sense when it comes to living in someone else’s home or hostel. In some of my trail experiences it was higher.
The one thing that's missing is the hammer, and it's needed for those One Per Centers
The Weasel
They usually have their own hammers with them. And if all you have is a hammer, well...............
Jack Tarlin
11-07-2006, 15:37
Happily, I didn't have to flat out ask ANYONE to leave. There were several who were pointedly told that the house was for "one night only unless they were injured" which was a good way to send folks you didn't really like back on the Trail. And a few folks I ran into in town were simply NOT invited home, as I either had run into them previously on the Trail and wasn't impressed, or I'd seen them being complete skilletheads somewhere and didn't want 'em near my house, or I simply didn't like their looks. (I.e. if you wanna come to my place, I don't wanna see any swastika tatoos, that sorta thing.)
And as for the guy who said my place sounded a bit like Rusty's, um, nope. Not remotely. For one thing, there WERE no posted rules, tho in retrospect we might do it a bit differently next time!
great post! BUT, hey, this SHOULD be common manners when anyone is a guest....hiker, friends, Mother-in-Laws....
I should print it off and post this on the 'fridge this Christmas....
Naw....they'd ignore it anyway.
The Weasel
11-07-2006, 15:48
great post! BUT, hey, this SHOULD be common manners when anyone is a guest....hiker, friends, Mother-in-Laws....
I should print it off and post this on the 'fridge this Christmas....
Naw....they'd ignore it anyway.
Actually, anyone who has/had teenagers probably still has the list on their refrigerator.
For all the good it did...
The Weasel
RockyTrail
11-07-2006, 15:54
*Just cuz there's a campfire at night doesn't mean people want to hear you
play guitar and sing, especially if you're terrible.
HA! (rolling on the floor laughing!) I've seen my share of those, I can imagine the looks on the faces as they try to excuse themselves :D :D
Jack, you must be one patient person; I could not imagine doing what you did, I just couldn't do that in my house. Not cut out for it, I couldn't even be a landlord of rental property. But my hat is off to you, I'm sure you enjoyed it and they got a great deal. When I visit someone's home, sometimes I'd rather be in a motel simply because I worry about accidentally doing something that would be on your list, and it's not worth damaging a friendship over the cost of a motel (plus you can wipe your boots on the towels just kidding). But then I guess I'm overreacting...or paranoid:eek:
halftime
11-07-2006, 16:07
Great post Jack and will be a great article.
I am fairly new to WB and have enjoyed reading all your posts and articles (let me qualify this: not all the political posts but all the ones about hiking). Have you considered compiling some of your insights into a book? Maybe you have already and I just don't know about it. If so, would certainly enjoy reading.
stoikurt
11-07-2006, 16:20
Great article and posting in at hostels is also a great idea. But it's just like they say about locks...they just help keep an honest person honest. But for a newbie at least they would know the ground rules and what's expected.
Great post!! ans yes it needs to be in the article section and posted at all hostels.....
Offerred to hostels for the purpose of posting should they so choose at best since we should allow them manage their own facilities as they see fit. I'm not aware that Whiteblaze.net owns any hostels.:eek: :o :rolleyes: ;)
The same basic sentiments espressed by Jack and others should apply to walking through a section of the A.T. maintained by any of the various hiking clubs. While we're talking about public lands, the A.T. was built and is maintained mostly by volunteers, who take pride in what they do and have provided an opportunity that costs in many cases nothing other than the effort expended to hike through it.
My intent in adding the last paragraph is not to divert Jack's thread, but merely to point out that there is a parallel track that runs a similiar course.
stoikurt
11-07-2006, 16:22
Offerred to hostels for the purpose of posting should they so choose at best since we should allow them manage their own facilities as they see fit. I'm not aware that Whiteblaze.net owns any hostels.:eek: :o :rolleyes: ;)
Well, this is true. It is their place and they have the choice to run it as they like.
Littlest Hobo
11-07-2006, 16:42
I’m rather saddened that these “rules” need to be posted at all. Rude trail/hostel ought to be dealt with by other hikers – if you see someone behaving badly, not doing their fair share, being rude, etc, speak up. Admonish him/her for their behaviour and try to set them straight.
We all need to recognize that poor behaviour by one of us reflects badly on us all – and that hostel/restaurant owner, townsfolk, etc, don’t remember the 99% of us who commit no offence – rather the 1% who do. Perhaps the 99% of us need to put in a little more effort. Rather than doing the bare minimum, assume that other hikers before you were a**holes and try to make up for their lapses. Tip 20%. Wash those dishes without being asked. Buy a local a drink. Always offer to pay for gas. Strive to make a positive impression - that way, maybe the 99% of us will be remembered instead.
galaleemc
11-07-2006, 16:46
Fabulous Post Jack!
Being new last year to the AT folks, over all, was an amazing experience for us. We were excited, apprehensive, over protective, guarded and green at the same time. We learned so much and are appreciative of all input and suggestions, and are picking Crutches brain right now to be ready and even better next year. While we felt we had to really lay down the "laws" before one hiker even showed up. We quickly learned to relax because most guests were great at pitching in a little everyday, but some things did get neglected. I will ask that they be done next year, rather than here. It helps us keep the costs low.
My only suggestions would be if you see someone doing something wrong (especially underage drinking and drug use or trafficing), let the owners, caretaker, Hiker Manager know so THEY can deal with this person.
If your Hosts ask you to fill out a form with your name, address, phone, email, trail name etc. DO IT completely. I did want to know and keep up with folks to know how they were, where they were and did they finish? I have a trinket that was hand made and sent as a thank you - sitting on my fireplace mantle and I will never forget him.
Always ask questions! It meant so much to me last year that even folks that paid for their stay came up and asked "if we can do something?". It is always nice to "pay it forward".
We are looking forward to next year. It will be our first year published in the guide books and will do our best considering what our Hostel can accomodate. We will even look out for you next year.
Lone Wolf
11-07-2006, 16:47
I like LHobo's idea, "buy a local a drink".:D I'm at Dot's usually every day about 5:00 PM so when y'all hike thru Damascus look me up. I sit on the locals side of the bar.
Littlest Hobo
11-07-2006, 16:54
I like LHobo's idea, "buy a local a drink".:D I'm at Dot's usually every day about 5:00 PM so when y'all hike thru Damascus look me up. I sit on the locals side of the bar.
Will be sure to buy you a pint when I pass through in 08
Footslogger
11-07-2006, 16:57
Will be sure to buy you a pint when I pass through in 08
====================================
Is this THE Littlest Hobo from 2003 ??
'Slogger
Littlest Hobo
11-07-2006, 17:03
Is this THE Littlest Hobo from 2003 ??
Afraid not. Didn't realize the name was taken - assumed I was being creative by choosing a name that reflected some of my "Canadianess". Oh well - will have to let the trail find me a new one
DawnTreader
11-07-2006, 17:11
It amazes me that Jack has to "spell out" how to be a gracious guest. Whatever happened to common courtesy and respect????
I completely agree.. I can't believe people need to be told these things.. I read this and felt like I was being preached at by an elementary school teacher.. However I did witness a couple of shady hiker moves in hostels this year..
I especially like the one “Don't use illegal drugs on anyone's property unless you absolutely know it is cool to do so”
I hears ya Jack. :eek:
LW, I don't blame ya.;)
It is only a few, I'd say 5%, that amaze you.:confused: People never seem to like being told their behavior isn't cool. I've never been one to hold back when dealing w/ other hikers, though.:D I agree that responsible hikers need to speak up, even if it's to the hostel owner up the trail, so they can nip possible problems in the bud.
Jack Tarlin
11-07-2006, 17:36
Sorry if you felt I was being "preachy" but remember that I did NOT have any rules or expectations posted on the wall....that's not my style.
I'm merely remarking on some things that I personally observed.
And believe me, everything I mentioned actually happened in less than six weeks!
I didn't even include the guy who was looking at porn on the computer, or the guy who was about to rebuild his pack using a $300.00 Italian chisel he'd requisitioned or the guy who balked at leashing his dog even after it tried to eat the cat, or the guy who stole and hiked out with a whole gallon of orange juice, or the chanting Buddhist who woke people up at 5:30 in the morning or the fellow who....well, I hope you get the idea.
Believe me, some folks NEED to be preached to, because there are some people....more than you might think.....who when it comes to common sense or consideration, simply don't have a clue.
The only remarkable thing is that I'd do it all over again.
The vast majority of hiker guests are great!
We're in Pagosa Springs at the moment, skiing down the Divide by day, soaking in the springs by night.....................somebodys got to do it:o
Anyways, we just sealed the deal on a place outside of town and our new hostel WILL have Jacks suggestions posted!:D :banana
Shame you have to actually post a list like that. I guess not everyone has or had a Momma like mine.
I didn't even include the guy who was looking at porn on the computer, or the guy who was about to rebuild his pack using a $300.00 Italian chisel he'd requisitioned or the guy who balked at leashing his dog even after it tried to eat the cat, or the guy who stole and hiked out with a whole gallon of orange juice, or the chanting Buddhist who woke people up at 5:30 in the morning or the fellow who....well, I hope you get the idea.
The vast majority of hiker guests are great!
Sounds like more than 2 bad eggs to me. Trail folks sure can be wonderful, but there are always a few clunkers out there in every sub-culture.
Power to you Jack! I could never do what you did. Small scale? Yes! 200 hikers? I don't think so!
Jack Tarlin
11-07-2006, 18:03
Actually Mowgli, in reference to that last post, most of this involved one guy!!
There really weren't that many bad eggs.
mweinstone
11-07-2006, 18:08
if i was a hostle owner heres what id do.my hostle would have no rules.theives and scoundrles would be welcome. all my stuff would be communal. i need no privacy.my rule would be and is now,.. turn the other cheek and offer my shirt when my coats gone.and when evil destructive people destroyed my hostle,... id only pray for them more. and be even happyer tto be surrounded by evil so as to work my jesus magic on the beasts and reflect the light of god so maby some or even one might change. then god will give me a new hostle. the end. and i respect and like very much jack and his way too.
Sadly this should all be common sense but its a great writeup and definately should be an article.
I like LHobo's idea, "buy a local a drink".:D I'm at Dot's usually every day about 5:00 PM so when y'all hike thru Damascus look me up. I sit on the locals side of the bar.
Next time I come through (fingers crossed for 2007, finances at this point say 2008), I'll cheerfully hook you up with the beverage of your choice if I catch you there.
Next time I come through (fingers crossed for 2007, finances at this point say 2008), I'll cheerfully hook you up with the beverage of your choice if I catch you there. The prospect of this becoming a tradition could be a financial boon for Dot's and Lone Wolf.:cool:
Actually Mowgli, in reference to that last post, most of this involved one guy!!
There really weren't that many bad eggs.
That's encouraging to hear Jack.
Downunda
11-07-2006, 19:29
That's a great post Jack, I hope I have the pleasure of meeting you sometime in the future. What you've put down here is something most hostel owners would probably love to post but would probably be reluctant to do so.
Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever get through to that 1%. I met just a few aholes on my hike who did things like that and was ashamed to be near them. It's amazing how they can afford to booze on but don't kick in to the donation box.
Jack Tarlin
11-07-2006, 20:17
I'm pleased to see such a favorable response to my thread.....frankly I expected people to think I was being whiny or had too high expectations.
I've had a chance to think of a few more things to add to the list, especially if Rock decides to turn this into an article. And once again, these are from FIRSTHAND experience:
*When you're a houseguest, and your host puts out food or cooks a meal,
remember the other guests, and that your meal is not necessarily---and
frequently IS NOT--- All You Can Eat. Just because you're the first person
to get your mitts on the breakfast sausages doesn't mean you get to
eat half of them. And merely because there's a gallon of milk on the table
doesn't mean it's all for you.
*If you're going into town on errands, ask your host if there's anything
needed in the way of hose supplies. You might save him a trip to the store
or if you're really feeling good, you might pick up these items on your own.
*Just because you're a guest in a former hiker's home, doesn't mean it's
Ok to be a rude sonofabitch. This means that in many cases, foul language,
public displays of flesh or bodily functions, etc., are not always
appreciated or in good form. This is especially the case if your host has
roomates, or friends over, or has family/children in the house. Just cuz
you're in a "hiker house" with other hikers, don't be a pig.
*Ask if your hosts re-cycle before throwing stuff out. We recycle
EVERYTHING and picking 200 empties outta the garbage is a pain in the
ass. Likewise, we don't burn plastic and other nasty stuff when we have
a fire, and neither should you.
*Please keep your religious convictions to yourself. If you wish to say a
silent prayer before you eat, to yourself, that's great. But announcing
at a communal dinner that you intend to say grace, and then giving a
fire and brimstone sermon at someone else's dinner table is unacceptable.
*Try not to take advantage of your hosts. Accepting an offered ride to
town is fine. Asking to borrow your host's truck is not. Don't put people
on the spot in order to accomodate your needs.
*If you manage to break or damage something, or if you see something isn't
working, let your host know right away. Believe me, he won't be mad at
you. But if the toilet is overflowing or the shower head has falllen off, or
whatever, believe me, he wants to know.
*Unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing, avoid using such things as
heaters, wood stoves, etc. without asking your host. While I'm sure he
shares your desire to keep things warm and toasty, he's probably less
enthusiastic about this after you've started the house on fire.
*I don't care if the bathroom is occupied. Poohing in the backyard is
generally considered bad form. Definitely NOT what the neighbors wanna
see first thing in the morning. Or later in the day, either.
*Take care of your possessions. For example, don't leave a load of clothes
in the washer for hours and then go ballistic when you discover that the
person who thoughtfully threw them in the dryer melted your sock liners
in the process. YOU are ultimately responsible for your own stuff. Likewise,
99.9% of hikers are honest but if you leave your stuff unattended all day
and your camera or new storm shell goes missing, it's not your host's fault.
*The clothes dryer is a lousy place to dry your boots. Likewise the oven.
*Just because your host has a magnificent spice rack in the kitchen doesn't
mean that he wants you to hike out with half of it.
*Police up your cigarette butts. The yard is not an ash tray.
*Don't get caught shaving your legs and pits with your host's personal razor
unless you're REALLY good looking.
*If you go off to town and come back s***faced, be reasonably quiet on
your return to the house, and don't try and flag down a ride. It's very
embarassing to your host to have to explain to local cops that you're
actually a houseguest.
*Don't be piggy with the radio, CD player, or TV. Not everyone present might
be as devoted to NASCAR or golf as you are. Let other folks have a shot
at playing a disc, picking a movie, etc.
*If there's some sort of house project going on and you wanna help, that's
wonderful, up to a point. Don't help paint the house if you're a sh***y
painter, and if we're working in the woodpile, don't go to town with the
skillsaw or worse, chainsaw, if you don't know what you're doing. This
tends to end badly.
*Respect your host's right to enjoy himself for a few minutes a day. If it's
apparent that all he has in the house is Johnny Cash, Springsteen, Pink
Floyd, U2, and Emmylou Harris......well suck it up and deal with it, or you
can always go back up the driveway and find another free place to stay.
*If you go out in the evening, buying a drink for your host is certainly not
expected or anticipated, but it's a very nice thing to do. Likewise, if your
stay is extended, consider cooking a meal, doing something for the house
and other guests, etc.
*If you REALLY start thinking your stay is extended, it's more than likely time
for you to hike. Ben Franklin once said that fish, relatives, and houseguests
become unpleasant after three days. Sometimes it takes less than that!
*Lastly, and this is important, for Chrissakes FILL UP THE ICE CUBE TRAYS!
It's not that tough a recipe.
All for now, I'm sure I'll remember some other stuff later.
If it's apparent that all he has in the house is Johnny Cash, Springsteen, Pink Floyd, U2, and Emmylou Harris......well suck it up and deal with it...I'll bring some Iron Maiden cd's to trashgiving to help ameliorate this problem.
Yes, if a one percenter came in, I suppose you would let them alone until they left.
One percenters and shelter. Hmmmmmm. :-?
Remember the movie "Gimme Shelter"? :eek:
Boat Drinks
11-07-2006, 21:00
*Just cuz there's a campfire at night doesn't mean people want to hear you
play guitar and sing, especially if you're terrible.
LMAO, halle-friggin-lujah
Stop trying to woo all the chicks!:D
Boat Drinks
11-07-2006, 21:13
Actually Mowgli, in reference to that last post, most of this involved one guy!!
A Buddhist that stole and tried to eat your cat? That's just not good!
Jack Tarlin
11-07-2006, 21:19
Hey, what can I say......you let Southbounders into your house, anything can happen! :D
StarLyte
11-07-2006, 21:37
"Respect your host's right to enjoy himself for a few minutes a day. If it's
apparent that all he has in the house is Johnny Cash, Springsteen, Pink
Floyd, U2, and Emmylou Harris......well suck it up"
....your place Jack?
Nice write up. :)
Lone Wolf
11-07-2006, 22:22
Sadly this should all be common sense but its a great writeup and definately should be an article.
Next time I come through (fingers crossed for 2007, finances at this point say 2008), I'll cheerfully hook you up with the beverage of your choice if I catch you there.
Nah. I'll buy you a Dot's cheeseburger and a pitcher of beer. My contribution to hiker trash. I did minnesotasmith the same way.
On the theme of Summit Photos and thank you cards, I gotta agree. A short thank you letter goes a long way. Whenever I shuttle hikers, feed them or put them up, I never expect anything in return, other than respect and good manners.
Once I shuttled a hiker from the trail, near Pawling NY into Brooklyn, NY because he had Lymes. It wasn't out of my way much, and I didn't mind bringing him, but I sure woulda loved to have heard if he recovered, finished the trail or was OK.
I urge future hikers to compile lists of emails/addys of fellow hikers, angels, hostel owners, motel proprietors, and townspeople you meet along the way. A simple hello and a thank you means a lot, and may benefit the hiker behind you.
Rain Man
11-08-2006, 15:17
*Clean up after yourself. If you use the kitchen, clean up afterwards, stove, dishes, etc. Your host is not your maid or your mom....
GREAT post, Jack!!! I'll only throw out one thing for your consideratoin 'cause you said you might make it an article. Drop the "or your mom" from this rule. Somehow putting in "mom" implies that one's mom is one's maid. If that's what a hiker thinks, he's a one-percenter from the git-go,... besides this being a slight to mom's everywhere.
Consider just saying "Your host is not your maid" and leave it at that. I know that's picky, but I know you want an article to be "clean." pun intended Anyway, feel free to take or leave this bit of unsolicited advice.
Thanks again for sharing your experience, Jack!
Rain:sunMan
.
DawnTreader
11-08-2006, 15:20
I think maybe a one liner would take care of your problem Jack, not a thesis on how to be a house guest.. maybe If you want to stay, fine, just remember I'm your gramma and this is her house.... that would sum it up just fine for me.....
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2006, 15:33
Thanx, RM---
What I was trying to say is that there's nobody around in private homes or hostels to run around and clean up after you, i.e. no maid, no mom, whatever.
I meant no dis-respect to moms, I assure you.
In my experience, the absolute WORST offenders in this regard are younger, spoiled, rich-kid hikers, but also, older married guys are also horrible, who've never done a load of laundry or scrubbed a pot in their lives.
I can't tell you many times I've been in a place like Miss Janet's where some
punkass kid will either walk away from the table after pigging out, or might magnanimously walk his greasy plate across the kitchen and then drop it in the sink, KNOWING FULL WELL that either Janet or other hikers will end up cleaning it. I've seen people do this more times than I can count, even when they see other hikers helping out with cleaning chores.
There was one time this August when these two guys who'd been there awhile approached me in the morning asking when breakfast was gonna be served. (I'd cooked enormous meals the preceding days). I smiled at them as said there wasn't going to be breakfast that day, and when they asked "Why not?" I said that while I didn't mind paying for it, and that while I really enjoyed cooking it, I was tired of spending an hour and a half cleaning the house each day and that I was particularly tired of folks who'd been there awhile and hadn't so much as rinsed out a glass. So the cook was on strike that day.
I'd like to think that in recognizing themselves in my description, they'd realize that considerate folks get four egg omelets; lazy schmucks get to walk a mile into town and pay nine bucks for one.
Oh, the best revenge was that shortly after they received this unhappy news and headed into town to buy something to eat, I went into the kitchen and started up the sausage and eggs for everyone else!!
As I recall, breakfast that day was magnificent.
Appalachian Tater
11-08-2006, 16:17
Violators should have the broken rule(s) tatooed on their bellies upside down for future reference.
I can't tell you many times I've been in a place like Miss Janet's where some punkass kid will either walk away from the table after pigging out, or might magnanimously walk his greasy plate across the kitchen and then drop it in the sink, KNOWING FULL WELL that either Janet or other hikers will end up cleaning it. I've seen people do this more times than I can count, even when they see other hikers helping out with cleaning chores.
Not to be contrary, but only one or two people can really fit in front of the sink at any given time, sort of a Pauli principle of hikers we all understand from being in shelters on rainy days. A person lingering around trying to be helpful can obstruct the process. Also occassionally, a hiker may have negotiated some kind of work for stay, and takes pole position in the kitchen and folks know who wants that oppurtunity. I personally leave the kitchen alone because it's always too crowded and confusing, and there's plenty to be done in the backyard anyway. If your dish is the only one in there and you're the only person around, that's a different story. If the kitchen personnel delegate a task your way that's also a different story, but usually, no one wants you in their kitchen, and that's to be respected. Also, a person may do their part in a way that's not apparent to the person criticizing, and so it's usually not appropriate to call someone out on such things unless you are certain that they are freeloading or whatever. Social pressure of this kind may not be as frequently justified as those who zealously police such things might believe, especially when they are also a guest. Hosts often get offended when a guest takes such things into their own hands on the host's behalf.
Lone Wolf
11-08-2006, 17:12
Why is washing dishes expected of someone who paid for breakfast?
Footslogger
11-08-2006, 17:16
Why is washing dishes expected of someone who paid for breakfast?
============================
Do I hear a vote for paper and plastic ??
'Slogger
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2006, 17:17
Bfitz:
I'm speaking about people who do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help out, even when they see others pitching in. And whether you're in a hostel, private home, or anywhere else, and you see people working or doing chores, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking "Do you need any help?" The person performing the work, then has the option of either accepting the offer or graciously refusing it. And I'm not suggesting "calling people out on it". I'm merely suggesting that when one stays in a communal setting like a hiker hostel, and certainly when one is a guest in a private home, offering to help out with light chores, especially when one sees your host or other guests performing them, is merely common courtesy. Some folks prefer to do all their own cleaning and cooking, and neither expect nor want any assistance, but this isn't always the case, and there's certainly no harm in making the offer. (For example I like to do my own food prep and cooking, but if anyone wants to help clean up while I'm destroying the kitchen, I'm not about to send 'em away!)
The person doing the chores always has the option of saying "Very nice of you to offer, but I'm OK." And as for kitchens frequently being crowded with a lot going on, you're right, but the offer to help should still be made; perhaps the host or guest might say "We're OK, if you want to come back and help dry in a few minutes that'd be great!" or maybe "We're almost done with the dishes, but if you want to fold some laundry, that'd be a big help!"
In my experience, Bfitz, there are always folks willing to help, who always volunteer and make themselves useful. There are folks who'll do this once in awhile. And then there's the majority of hikers, who in a hostel or in someone's home, do absolutely nothing, even if they've been in a place for days.
I love my house guests, but when you realize you've cooked for, served, cleaned up after, and basically did everything but wipe someone's ass for them for three days, well this is often a guest that you're not sorry to see hit the road.
I suppose there are some hosts who look forward to pampering their guests like this. Well, all I gotta say is that unless you happen to be Scarlett Johansson, it ain't gona happen in my house.
peter_pan
11-08-2006, 17:22
Great points Jack.... this should be pasted together into an article....
Pan
I'm speaking about people who do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help out, even when they see others pitching in. And whether you're in a hostel, private home, or anywhere else, and you see people working or doing chores, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking "Do you need any help?" The person performing the work, then has the option of either accepting the offer or graciously refusing it. And I'm not suggesting "calling people out on it". I'm merely suggesting that when one stays in a communal setting like a hiker hostel, and certainly when one is a guest in a private home, offering to help out with light chores, especially when one sees your host or other guests performing them, is merely common courtesy.
I'll second that.
Also the bit about Scarlett Johannson...
Littlest Hobo
11-08-2006, 17:39
Funny how the beginning of this thread started with 99% of hikers being wonderful to this:
And then there's the majority of hikers, who in a hostel or in someone's home, do absolutely nothing, even if they've been in a place for days.
I guess we all need to shape up a bit :cool:
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2006, 17:39
Wolf, get real:
A hiker hostel operating out of someone's home isn't a fancy restaurant that has a paid staff to cater to a guest's every need.
You'd been in places like Janet's or Kincora and you know how they operate.
When places like this are full, there's stuff that needs to be done ALL the time, and there's no way the hostel proprietors can do it all by themselves, nor can most of these places afford to pay for the staff necessary to stay on top of things. In places like Janet's, dirty dishes are a problem all day long. Folding sheets and towels, and making sure clean ones find their way back to the bathroom and bunkrooms goes on all day long, and Janet frequently isn't around to make sure this happens.
Most folks realize this, and also understand that in order to make things run smoothly, it works out better when everyone helps out a little bit.
And the fact that one has paid to be in a place is irrelevant, it doesn't mean you have the right to be a lazy inconsiderate slob.
Case in point: People that park cars at the main campsite at Trail Days pay a fee and get a sticker when they first arrive at the parking lot. Does the fact that they've "paid" to be there give them the right to leave trash behind, or not police up the area around their tents when it's time to hit the Trail?
No, they don't have this right. The fact that they've paid to be there doesn't absolve them from their obligation to being considerate of others, and doing their part to keep a place running smothly and not becoming a pigsty.
Same thing at a hostel. Taking a few minutes from one's movie-watching or beer-guzzling to help out and do a few chores isn't going to kill anyone.
When I see people treat folks like Janet like she's the chambermaid or house servant, I want to kick their little hippy asses.
Well, I've mellowed out a bit. Nowadays, when I see folks acting like this, or observe people doing this for days on end, well, I simply don't include them when we're sitting down that night for steak or lasagna. They don't wanna help clean the house, or they wanna treat Janet like she's a housemaid, well then they don't have to help eat, either.
But your saying that the fact that they've paid to be there lets them act like they're in a restaurant or fancy hotel is just ridiculous. Busy hiker hostels simply can't function unless people pitch in and help out. If a floor needs sweeping, then you sweep it. If you've just used a frying pan, then you clean it and put it away. If a trash can needs a new liner, you find one.
For Chrissakes, Wolf, this isn't that hard.
Alligator
11-08-2006, 17:49
Those damn hippies are ruining this country...
Why you and LW need to put aside your differences, line those hippies up on Miss Janet's porch, and see who can kick 'em across the street the farthest dagnabit.
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2006, 17:51
Believe it or not, Hobo, despite my comments and complaints about some hikers, I still think nearly all of my house guests were great folks, with only a tiny fraction being so horrible that you'd rather move away than see them at your doorstep ever again.
However, I think it's important that next year's folks get an idea of what it's like out there. These folks WILL stay in hostels and in private homes, and there is definitely a way to make yourself a better guest, or to put it another way, there's definitely way to let your host know you appreciate their kindness.
The more that folks see this, the liklier they are to continue these acts of kindness to other hikers in years to come.
Well, enough from me on all this. I'd love to hear stories from other folks on house guests, and their experiences as either a guest or a host.
I think hearing from other people could be very instructive for next year's hikers.
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2006, 17:54
What a splendid idea, Alligator! :D
I think I've got bigger feet, but Wolf definitely has more practice.
Could be an interesting contest.
Rock can handle officiating, crowd control, and wagering.
Janet can take survivors to the Trailhead.
And then I'll cook diner for whoever's left.
Nice thinking, Gator!
Boat Drinks
11-08-2006, 17:55
Yeah, I get your point Jack!
Alligator
11-08-2006, 17:57
It helps if you roll them around in flour first so you know where they landed.
Skidsteer
11-08-2006, 18:10
It helps if you roll them around in flour first so you know where they landed.
Or have a couple spotters on hand to immediately mark point of impact with a golf ball marker.
Sorta like serving as spotter in a javelin contest without the threat of impalement.
Alligator
11-08-2006, 18:18
We'll need a word to shout on the launch to avoid impacts with spotters:-?
I'm partial to DooooBBYYYY!!!
StarLyte
11-08-2006, 18:34
It helps if you roll them around in flour first so you know where they landed.
HA!
Let me first say, that the meatballs I made for dinner were absolutely lucious. I introduced a good merlot into the meat mixture.
Secondly....if I needed help making the meatballs, I would simply ask. Is someone downright going to refuse to help with something.....knowing it will affect their livelihood temporarily? I don't think so. One must never assume that a hiker, possibly a real tired hiker, might help. Assignments must be given out, unless a hiker asks first, "should I be helping with anything"? No one is hurt, uncomfortable, overworked, bitter.
Third, you all need to see Sly in action. I watched him at to the Southern Ruck. He was very polite and kind, but firmly asked individuals for help with things at the Ruck - mainly the kitchen and dining areas. I was very impressed. I've learned from hiker events that people don't always jump in to help as well.
Yeah I know a hiker event is different than a hostel, guest house etc. Same guests, am I right?
Third, you all need to see Sly in action. I watched him at to the Southern Ruck. He was very polite and kind, but firmly asked individuals for help with things at the Ruck - mainly the kitchen and dining areas.LOL... Yes, well I did say "volunteerism is encouraged." ;)
StarLyte
11-08-2006, 18:43
LOL... Yes, well I did say "volunteerism is encouraged." ;)
Hey, I'm bowing to ya brother.
I like to watch Jack in the kitchen too.
Skidsteer
11-08-2006, 19:13
We'll need a word to shout on the launch to avoid impacts with spotters:-?
I'm partial to DooooBBYYYY!!!
I like it.
Kind of like the 'Fooooore!' of hippy-kickin'
Two Speed
11-08-2006, 19:49
. . . I'm partial to DooooBBYYYY!!!Ya know, we may just have had a new word introduced into the (un)official hiker's lexicon. Maybe we could hold the regular games at shelters and have the World Series of hippy kickin' at select hostels. :-?
Hey, I'm bowing to ya brother.
I like to watch Jack in the kitchen too.
Yeah, I tried to help with some lasagna one time and almost got my hands chopped off. Do not, I repeat, do not pluck an olive out of the mix with your fingers and eat it while dinner is being prepared, especially if jack is holding cutlery and someone is going down, down, down, yeah, be bop a loo lah down.....
Kicking hippies is dangerous, too. They have glass in their pockets.
Littlest Hobo
11-08-2006, 20:18
Alright, in an effort to get this thread back on track... I would venture that the inconsiderate hikers are young and new to the trail. They are unfamiliar with trail etiquette and the whole concept of a hostel is foreign to them (they are only familiar with the hotel experience - you pay a set price and the maid will do the rest). Hopefully those of us with more experience will help them along so they won't make the same mistakes when they reach Maine.
Until they learn something, and for the benefit of dirty hippies like myself who abhore long lists of rules, perhaps we can reduce Jack's suggested rules down to three simple concepts:
1. Be considerate of others and help out when you can.
2. If the owner asks you to do something, do it.
3. ALWAYS USE COASTERS!
Jack Tarlin
11-08-2006, 20:18
There ain't much I won't eat, but I loathe olives beyond my capacity to describe, Bfitz, and they neither go in my lasagna, my salads, or anywhere else.
If there was indeed an olive "in the mix" on the day you mention, it musta fallen out of your martini.
Skidsteer
11-08-2006, 20:19
...Kicking hippies is dangerous, too. They have glass in their pockets.
That's some funny ***** right there Bfitz. :D
There ain't much I won't eat, but I loathe olives beyond my capacity to describe, Bfitz, and they neither go in my lasagna, my salads, or anywhere else.
If there was indeed an olive "in the mix" on the day you mention, it musta fallen out of your martini.Hmmmm....I wonder what the hell that little black thing was?
I'll admit the memory is vague, but I might have tried to change the cd as well as nibble on ingredients...
There ain't much I won't eat, but I loathe olives beyond my capacity to describe, Bfitz, and they neither go in my lasagna, my salads, or anywhere else.
Well then, if I ever come to Trashgiving, I'll know to bring some tapenade along. Mmmmmmm. More for Mowgli.
StarLyte
11-08-2006, 21:46
Hmmmm....I wonder what the hell that little black thing was?
I'll admit the memory is vague, but I might have tried to change the cd as well as nibble on ingredients...
That was a black toenail B.
StarLyte
11-08-2006, 21:49
Well then, if I ever come to Trashgiving, I'll know to bring some tapenade along. Mmmmmmm. More for Mowgli.
and now I'm forced to really deviate from this thread.....
Tapenade? Only Puck cooks with that. Don't tell us, surprise us someday :D With a great dish.
That was a black toenail B.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
tiamalle
11-08-2006, 22:58
I'd do it again in a heartbeat, but hopefully not next summer. Dunno where I'm gonna be, but it better not be Hanover!Jack,this is for real.you should send this post to Amocalola to hand out to each candidate starting thru the arches,one more addendem.Don't steal my towels without asking!,Hey great post.
tiamalle
11-08-2006, 23:01
I live 60 yards off the AT and I never take hikers in. Wouldn't even think of it.Hey,he is a great guy"he let us park in his driveway during traildays. :D
Lone Wolf
11-08-2006, 23:26
Hey,he is a great guy"he let us park in his driveway during traildays. :D
Certain folks rate. You and your family are always welcome.:)
Having "coddled" hundreds of hikers in my time and seeing the best to the worst of them all, I have noticed that the best usually always take up the slack for the worst, the work gets done and the lazy slobs continue to be lazy slobs. Some of which I have often wondered how they even manage to hike the trail and what their dwellings look like at home ! I think it all boils down to what yo mama should have taught ya: to respect others and their stuff, appreciate their hospitality, clean up after yourself and leave the place cleaner than when you came. Also when it comes to places like hostels run out of private homes etc., remember that these are not high profit margins most barely break even so even if you did pay for something it usually doesnt cover the costs and certainly doesnt give anyone the right to trash the place and expect others to just take care of it simply because "I paid for it". That should be considered a "donation" which is how alot of places are run. The work should be divided evenly among the ones that are there at the time. One should always offer to help if nothing else. Just my take on a situation that I have been on both sides of many, many times.
RAT
titanium_hiker
11-09-2006, 01:05
That razor one was funny, Jack. That's one lesson I learned in my adolescence! I guess visitors thought it was funny that we had a roll of electrical tape in our bathroom (to mark razors!) Dad wasn't impressed...
:D
TH
Hey Jack, speaking of razors it reminded me, I am still laughing about the "little beard" story LOL
RAT
tiamalle
11-09-2006, 07:39
Certain folks rate. You and your family are always welcome.:)Same here,for you and yours
tiamalle
11-09-2006, 07:45
Fabulous Post Jack!
Being new last year to the AT folks, over all, was an amazing experience for us. We were excited, apprehensive, over protective, guarded and green at the same time. We learned so much and are appreciative of all input and suggestions, and are picking Crutches brain right now to be ready and even better next year. While we felt we had to really lay down the "laws" before one hiker even showed up. We quickly learned to relax because most guests were great at pitching in a little everyday, but some things did get neglected. I will ask that they be done next year, rather than here. It helps us keep the costs low.
My only suggestions would be if you see someone doing something wrong (especially underage drinking and drug use or trafficing), let the owners, caretaker, Hiker Manager know so THEY can deal with this person.
If your Hosts ask you to fill out a form with your name, address, phone, email, trail name etc. DO IT completely. I did want to know and keep up with folks to know how they were, where they were and did they finish? I have a trinket that was hand made and sent as a thank you - sitting on my fireplace mantle and I will never forget him.
Always ask questions! It meant so much to me last year that even folks that paid for their stay came up and asked "if we can do something?". It is always nice to "pay it forward".
We are looking forward to next year. It will be our first year published in the guide books and will do our best considering what our Hostel can accomodate. We will even look out for you next year.Laura,be sweet to Crutch and pick his brain real easy.I wouldn't want you to cause it to fly out of gear him foul up some how :eek: have a nice day.
Jan LiteShoe
11-09-2006, 09:13
Nah. I'll buy you a Dot's cheeseburger and a pitcher of beer. My contribution to hiker trash. I did minnesotasmith the same way.
Dinner... but no movie? :)
Two Speed
11-09-2006, 09:19
First date. C'mon, get reasonable.
Great post Jack! I agree 100%
I second that!
Tapenade? Only Puck cooks with that.
I brought some to our holiday shin-dig at my employers Staff Retreat a few years ago. Several of my co-workers are now hooked. I learned about it from my daughter. She's a Culinary Institute of America graduate.
PS: I prefer my tapenade on a cracker with some nice cheese and a fake beer. I'd really prefer a real beer, but the world is a safer place when I don't imbibe.
hopefulhiker
11-09-2006, 19:30
I think that if Baltimore Jack ever retires from hiking he ought to open a good hostel in Hanover... They really need one there.....And I think he would be good at it...
Jack Tarlin
11-09-2006, 19:38
In a word.....no.
Enjoying myself with the first 999 guests would be a blast, but having to kill the 1,000th would just ruin my afternoon, and I'd rather not spend my declining years in a cage.
I'd rather keep it on an informal basis, preferably helping out folks I've actually met somewhere on the Trail.
Fewer surprises that way.
the goat
11-09-2006, 21:05
I brought some to our holiday shin-dig at my employers Staff Retreat a few years ago. Several of my co-workers are now hooked. I learned about it from my daughter. She's a Culinary Institute of America graduate.
PS: I prefer my tapenade on a cracker with some nice cheese and a fake beer. I'd really prefer a real beer, but the world is a safer place when I don't imbibe.
yeah man, i love that stuff too. i prefer tapenade that's made with only kalamata olives, i think the green ones adulterate the taste. crackers, cheese & beer....now i'm hungry.:D
DawnTreader
11-09-2006, 21:38
This thread is stupid.. This list is insulting ... I would be disgusted to see this list at every hostel along the trail.. Jack, you say 99% of hikers you've dealt with have been well behaved and helpfull. Why then would people waste so much time printing and cirrculating this list for a percent of ungrateful lazy asses, who wouldn't lift a finger even after reading this jargon..
DT
totally Boagus
11-09-2006, 21:43
looks like we found Jack's 1%
Jack Tarlin
11-09-2006, 21:48
Hey DT....take a break from feeling insulted and disgusted.
And it wasn't ME that said this should be posted in hostels, it was other folks who suggested that.
My sole intent in starting this thread was to discuss some of the things I've personally witnessed on the part of hiker "houseguests."
I thought this might be informative and educational, especially for the folks who are hiking next year.
You evidently feel otherwise.
Well, fine. Now how about YOU take in a couple of hundred strangers into YOUR house next year and then tell us about YOUR experiences.
Something tells me that after doing THAT, you might find the topic of "hiker houseguests" to be less stupid, and a subject worthy of discussion.
Seems like more than one host has posted here that it's a good idea, might make a good article, etc. Mabye they're also being generous about calling the problem element "one percent"....?
max patch
11-09-2006, 21:57
I think that if Baltimore Jack ever retires from hiking he ought to open a good hostel in Hanover... They really need one there.....And I think he would be good at it...
There used to be a church hostel in Hanover; if "The List" was posted and followed -- and hikers applied peer presure to the one percenters to keep them in line -- perhaps that church would still be in the hostel business.
You know, I can see how a thread like this, and likewise a sign posted with such a list could be insulting or condescending. Kind of like when some gal posts something along the lines of "How to not be a jerk to women on the trail" and we react with similiar offense, like, Hey! Who are they to accuse me? They don't even know me! And then someone says it's only one percent of guys that are the jerks, and then someone else says that's the one percent that wont't benefit from the advice etc. etc. But, hey, if it keeps coming up, mabye there's something to it, no? They have "No Dumping" signs in places that would be a lot prettier w/o the sign, as long as no one ever dumped there, ya know what I mean?
Lone Wolf
11-09-2006, 23:41
This thread is stupid.. This list is insulting ... I would be disgusted to see this list at every hostel along the trail.. Jack, you say 99% of hikers you've dealt with have been well behaved and helpfull. Why then would people waste so much time printing and cirrculating this list for a percent of ungrateful lazy asses, who wouldn't lift a finger even after reading this jargon..
DT
I agree. Lists mean nothing. The Place has a "list". Lots don't adhere to them.
They have "No Dumping" signs in places that would be a lot prettier w/o the sign, as long as no one ever dumped there, ya know what I mean?Good point. As if the sign was the solution.:-? I have pondered the "No Dumping" signs before and wondered the same thing.
Jack Tarlin
11-10-2006, 00:01
On the other hand, if I hadn't put up a sign asking people NOT to use the washing machine without asking me first, maybe it would've been broken nine different times instead of just once.
You're right that some folks will ignore signs, rules, and suggestions, but then again, this doesn't apply to everyone.
Telling people to keep their mitts off the washing machine probably saved me three hundred bucks in repair bills.
Moral of story: Sometimes "signs" or lists are quite useful.
Considerate and thoughtful people---of which there are more than you might think---actually pay attention to them.
Lone Wolf
11-10-2006, 00:12
I've been meaning to write this for awhile; it was another thread I saw today on hostels and what people expected of them that prompted me to set this down:
This summer, for the first time since 1995, I didn't do much hiking. That was the bad news.
The good news is that by being home in Hanover for August and early September, I was able to meet with hundreds of hikers, some for the first time, and some who I'd met down South, or in Duncannon, or places in between.
The Dartmouth dorms were taking in very few hikers this year, and I was lucky enough to be living in an empty house less than a mile from town, so we decided to take in hikers.
We probably ended up with close to 200 by the end of the season.
All in all, it was a great experience, and some folks stayed for almost a week, which was fine. There was plenty of room, beautiful tentsites, a great swimming hole, all within an easy walk of the Trail or downtown. We had cookouts at night and big communal breakfasts in the morning.
There were very few problems, and 99% of the folks who stopped by were wonderful.
However, it's that other 1% that were truly memorable!
A few quick comments to those who'll be hiking next year, on how to be a good house guest, and how to avoid becoming the houseguest from hell:
*Clean up after yourself. If you use the kitchen, clean up afterwards, stove,
dishes, etc. Your host is not your maid or your mom.
*Likewise, try and leave the bathroom/shower better looking than when you
entered it. Don't leave the place flooded; put your towels in the right place,
etc.
*Be considerate in the bathroom, especially if you know other folks are
waiting to use it. One hour showers are not cool.
*Cleaning your boots on bath towels is also not cool.
*In fact, if it's rainy or muddy out, try and leave your boots outside to avoid
tracking too much crap into the house.
*Don't hang out in the house, especially the living room, til you've cleaned up
a bit. I.e., before lying down on the sofa to watch a double-feature, jump
in the shower, especially if it's been awhile since your last one. Your host
shouldn't have to force you to get cleaned up.
*Unless specifically told to "Help yourself to anything that's in there!" do NOT
assume that food and drink in the kitchen or fridge is at your disposal.
Always ask first. And if you finish something up, like the orange juice or
the half and half for the coffee, let your host know, so they can replace it.
*Same goes for such things as shampoo, laundry soap, dish soap, etc.
*House supplies are NOT to be carried away with you. It is NOT your host's
responsibility to wipe your behind for the next three weeks, so even if
there's eight rolls of TP under the sink, it is not cool for you to steal one.
*Obey your host's requests regarding animals. I.e., if you know dogs aren't
cool, then don't bring 'em. If your host wants them on a leash or kept
outta the house, respect this. And for Christ's sake, clean up after your
damned pet. If I wanted a yard full of dogs***, I'd get a puppy.
*Don't use computers without asking, likewise, avoid "private" areas of
people's houses. Coming home and finding a hiker going thru my desk cuz
he was looking for a pair of pliers was not a happy moment, especially since
there was a "Private!" sign on the bedroom door.
*Likewise, don't use major appliances unless you've asked. Our washing
machine was acting weird and there was a big, un-missable sign on it that
said "Please ask Jack before using!!" and of course people routinely ignored
this. End result was we were without a washing machine for the better
part of a week til we could get the necesary part to fix it.
*Respect other people that are there, both residents and other guests. If
you're going to keep late hours, respect the folks that are sleeping. If
you're planning on leaving at five in the morning, do so as quietly as
possible.
*Just cuz there's a campfire at night doesn't mean people want to hear you
play guitar and sing, especially if you're terrible.
*Don't bring people back to the house, or direct other hikers to the house,
unless you've specifically asked if this is OK. I came home from work once
to discover eight strangers in my house who'd gotten a map to the place
from some other hikers. Not cool.
*Don't drink if you're underage, and don't "help out" hiker friends who are
minors. I really don't enjoy explaining to cops or people at the emergency
room why and how a drunk 19-year-old fell off my porch and cut his head.
*Don't use illegal drugs on anyone's property unless you absolutely know
it is cool to do so. Be aware that even if it's cool with the owner, many
hikers don't want to be around them.
*Don't steal. If you want to borrow a Trail map or a shirt, I'll happily lend
you one, and will let you know if I need it back. Walking outta my house
with stuff is not cool.
*Feel free to help out around the house, i.e. if you see something that
obviously NEEEDS to be done, like drying a load of towels or doing a sink-
ful of dishes, well just do it. Sweeping a floor won't kill you.
*Consolidate your stuff and keep it in one place. If stuff gets lost or goes
missing during your stay, this is YOUR responsibility.
*If there are communal meals where everyone is kicking in a few bucks, well
do your part. Nobody likes freeloaders. If you have eight dollars to spare
for a designer six-pack, then you can throw in on dinner like everyone else.
*Slackpacking, or long shuttles, costs money. Always ask your host if they'd
like some gas money. They may well turn your offer down and say "No,
thanks" but it can't hurt to offer.
*And lastly, get your host's address and send them a card or Katahdin shot.
People love hearing from hiker guests, and are always curious as to how
your trip ended up.
And that's that. In reading this over, I see that a lot of this applies to staying at hostels as well, especially the parts about helping out, doing a few needed chores, respecting other guests, etc. Running a hostel or having a dozen house guests every day is more work than you'd think, and there's always some way to make yourself useful.
Oh, one last thing. Arriving at a place and announcing your intention to stay for ten days is not the best way to introduce yourself to your host!!
And if anyone else out there has had experiences as a host (or guest!) that they want to share, by all means chime in.
You CHOSE to let 200 hikers stay at your or whoever's place. Shoulda had a list posted. Shoulda charged a fee. Lotta shouldas. Sniveling.
Naw, you're not supposed to just expect people to be a-holes. When they are, complaints are justified. No matter how frequent it ends up being in the real world.
Jack Tarlin
11-10-2006, 00:20
Snivel yourself, Wolf.
You already acknowledged you don't take in hikers.
Fine.
But you really can't judge what it's like then, can you? In fact, you have no idea what it's like.
And if you'd bothered to read any of my posts, you'll see that I'm not complaining about my guests.....I loved having them, and I said that I'd happily do it again if I was around in August. In fact, only a few were problems, but they were memorable. But the vast majority were great. ( I also recall saying this several times; you evidently missed it).
What I was doing was to try and tell a few things to next year's hikers.
And I don't see anthing wrong with that, sorry if you do.
And as far as charging folks, why on earth are you suggesting that, as I wasn't running a hostel and I wasn't trying to make any money.
It was never about the money. It was about helping out some hikers.
And I haven't any regrets, except that I wish I'd been able to spend August hiking instead of running an insane asylum. :D
I like the list Jack, I was just commenting on silly signs. "Don't use w/o Jack" at your house is different than "No Dumping" on a dead end road.
Lone Wolf
11-10-2006, 00:21
Then quit sniveling.:rolleyes:
I like the list Jack, I was just commenting on silly signs. "Don't use w/o Jack" at your house is different than "No Dumping" on a dead end road.Yeah, I kind of meant that if it never happened no one would have felt the need to post the silly sign. Unfortunately the jerks that dump like that already knew they were being jerks, just like those one percenters who have no respect pretty much already know who they are.
Do you hand someone a hankie when they're sniveling? :-?
Jack Tarlin
11-10-2006, 00:30
Hey Wolf, I know tomorrow is the anniversary of your beloved Corps, so happy anniversary.
But I must say, it looks like you started celebrating a day early. :D
Now stop being such a cantankerous old schmuck, open another beer, and let's give it a rest for the night!
That's sniffling.
Ah! So you hand someone a backhand when they're sniveling! ;)
Jack Tarlin
11-10-2006, 00:32
Hey Mowg, trash talking season is over for Yankee fans.
Talk about folks in need of hankies!! :D
But you can start up again in April, OK?
Hey Mowg, trash talking season is over for Yankee fans.
Talk about folks in need of hankies!! :D
But you can start up again in April, OK?
I'm a Rutgers fan Jack. Today was the best day in Rutgers football history. And they played in the very first college football game versus Princeton! Rutgers is 9-0 and beat #3 Louisville 28-25 after falling behind 25-7.
Think I'l change my avatar.
See what happens when the politics forum shuts down!
Jack Tarlin
11-10-2006, 00:52
Keep that "R" in the spring, Mowgli, but add an "S" to it!
But for now, congratulations!
POLARBEAR
11-10-2006, 00:55
Yup, I was one of the hiker trash crashing at your pad this year Jack - Thanks bud.
Peace
SGT Rock
11-10-2006, 00:56
Actually that sort of thing still happens when it is up too. Remember the thread about the Outfitter at Harper's Ferry? Mud-ball fights on the website.
Maybe they should set a duel at Trail days. Squirt-guns and water balloons 12 O'clock Noon, in front of Dots.
I crashed in the yard there a few years ago. Was feasted like a viking in the hall of the gods. Much obliged. If I remember correctly a hiker's dog had eaten a little girl's rabbit.
Maybe they should set a dual at Trail days. Squirt-guns and water balloons 12 O'clock Noon, in front of Dots.
Over too quickly.
A few things to add to the list:
No crapping on the floor in Monson.
No dogs eating rabbits or cats.
No strangling women at the Four Pines.
No leaving nasty toenails in drawers at the Doyle.
C'mon, most of that stuff only happened once, or at most twice!
DawnTreader
11-10-2006, 11:37
looks like we found Jack's 1%
I hope that your not talking about me based on my previous thread. You don't know me or how I behave in hostels.. It just so happens that I go above and beyond when staying in places along the trail, I also tip very well.
To those who believe this list should be posted in hostels, your way off. This list is fine for the internet, and maybe should be placed in the articles section on this site. But to say that Jack Tarlin's list should become a sort of bible, pasted on the doors of hostels and homes from Kneels Gap to Monson, is sickening. If proprieters deem it necessary to post some rules, by all means, go right ahead. But to circulate this list along the trail would be demeaning and insulting to the thousands of well behaved hikers that have to see it over, and over, and over.
Jack,
I'm sure the hikers you have let into your home this season are very greatful, and the community appreciates your support. The fact remains, that you are coming off to some here, as a whiner on this issue. I have not had smelly hungry hiker people in my house, and I don't know if I would. But you did, so you have to deal with whatever comes with that. Your essentially running a business with no profit, and there are costs that come with doing such. i.e. broken things, stolen things, rude people, ect. ect. Deal with it or get out of the business.. Putting this sign on YOUR door might squelch some of these problems, but I highly doubt it.
PEACE
DT
DawnTreader:
I take a different view. Instead of worrying about whether a list of rules will offend some hikers, I say post 'em. While the majority of hikers are well behaved, the behavior of a few has caused hostels to close up & down the trail, and cast hikers in a less than flattering light.
I'm not sure if you've hiked the AT or not. If you have, I'm sure you've seen similar things that I have seen. Here's a brief list of behaviors that I have seen first-hand;
Drunk & disorderly in church hostels
Stealing porn PPV from DirecTV at a hostel
Looking at porn on the internet in a church hostel
refusing to pay for services at hostels - repeatedly
Organized a weed stash inside a church hostel
having sex inside a church hostel (The Place - April '00)
Having a beer party in the Vernon Church Hostel - and refusing to clean up the resulting mess
I'm sure many folks could add to this sad list. So you see, I don't worry about offending someone's sensibilities with a list rules. IMO, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
I hope that your not talking about me based on my previous thread. You don't know me or how I behave in hostels.. It just so happens that I go above and beyond when staying in places along the trail, I also tip very well.
To those who believe this list should be posted in hostels, your way off. This list is fine for the internet, and maybe should be placed in the articles section on this site. But to say that Jack Tarlin's list should become a sort of bible, pasted on the doors of hostels and homes from Kneels Gap to Monson, is sickening. If proprieters deem it necessary to post some rules, by all means, go right ahead. But to circulate this list along the trail would be demeaning and insulting to the thousands of well behaved hikers that have to see it over, and over, and over.
Jack,
I'm sure the hikers you have let into your home this season are very greatful, and the community appreciates your support. The fact remains, that you are coming off to some here, as a whiner on this issue. I have not had smelly hungry hiker people in my house, and I don't know if I would. But you did, so you have to deal with whatever comes with that. Your essentially running a business with no profit, and there are costs that come with doing such. i.e. broken things, stolen things, rude people, ect. ect. Deal with it or get out of the business.. Putting this sign on YOUR door might squelch some of these problems, but I highly doubt it.
PEACE
DT
...Sigh.... :(
...Sigh.... :(
I just hope Jack does not have to "get out of the buisness" of being kind and helpful to others while at the same time expecting them to have a minimal set of manners while they are a guest in his home.
DawnTreader
11-10-2006, 12:01
Mowgli,
I would not be so animant about an issue that I had not experienced first hand. I have seen the scammers you refer to. The dude that dosn't check in with the hostel operator, and passes out on the couch after 6 to many pbr's. Hitchin' a ride with said operator the next morning to the trail without so much as a nickel changing hands.
All I am trying to say is that just because a service is cheap or free, dosn't mean that the majority of well behaved hikers should have this list posted in their face hostel after hostel after hostel.
Douche bags are douche bags and a list won't make them any cleaner..
I think there is a problem because nice people who have closed there hostels have not been able to deal with the few rotten eggs. on a side note, I'd say that very few hostels have closed for this reason, most have burned out and are looking for other ventures.. It is very romantic to believe that you can clean the trail of douche bags with a list, but they will be there.. they always are, and they will do things that make hostel owners want to close, but that is the nature of the beast....The AT is not a safe haven from idiots, and ungratefull bastards.. List or no list, if you build it, they will come....
Littlest Hobo
11-10-2006, 12:08
I have not had smelly hungry hiker people in my house, and I don't know if I would. But you did, so you have to deal with whatever comes with that. Your essentially running a business with no profit, and there are costs that come with doing such. i.e. broken things, stolen things, rude people, ect. ect. Deal with it or get out of the business.. Putting this sign on YOUR door might squelch some of these problems, but I highly doubt it.
As Jack previously said, he did not suggest that his suggestions be posted on the door of his hostel, others here did.
If the only option was for hiker-friendly businesses to simply "deal with it" by absorbing the costs, we are going to find a lot of them will decide that we're simply not worth the trouble and will "get out of the business" altogether.
DawnTreader
11-10-2006, 12:13
so be it.. then maybe hikers will start spending the night in the woods again..
I tend to agree, with a few notable suggestions, Jack's list is Jack's list for his house and what he experienced. On the otherhand, local hostels have local rules, which should be posted.
On the otherhand, local hostels have local rules, which should be posted.
Yes. I agree. I wasn't suggesting that Jack's list be posted in hostels.
DawnTreader
11-10-2006, 12:29
[quote=MOWGLI16;269259]DawnTreader:
I take a different view. Instead of worrying about whether a list of rules will offend some hikers, I say post 'em..... quote]
So your not refering to Jack's list being posted on hostels along the trail??... I agree with you.. Individual hostel owners should post there own rules if they deem necessary.. I would just be sickened if Jacks list starting popping up on doorways up and down the trail... Different needs for different places and people...
DT
max patch
11-10-2006, 12:31
Yes, Jacks list shouldn't be posted in hostels -- but -- hostels should have their own set of rules posted. The reason for this is that many, many hikers do not obey the rules of the house -- and having posted rules will facilitate the 99% of hikers who behave to straighten out the 1% who don't.
Littlest Hobo
11-10-2006, 12:36
DT,
While this thread began as an attempt to provide guidance on how to act in hostels, what is really boils down to is being considerate to all those who help a hiker get down the trail. We all depend on hiker-friendly businesses - hostels, restaurants, stores, shuttles, etc – businesses that are “friendly” because are cheaper, accommodating to our needs and willing to deal with a bunch of smelly hikers. Some hikers take advantage of them.
While these hikers may be “douche bags”, others are simply new to this environment and require a bit of guidance. In the “real” world, paying for a room in a hotel means that you don’t have to clean up after yourself. In the thru-hiker community, this is expected. You pay for a meal at a restaurant, you’re not expected to help do the dishes. You eat at a hostel, this is expected. For a newby, the etiquette of the tail is new to them. Adjustments will need to be made.
Littlest Hobo
11-10-2006, 12:42
the etiquette of the tail is new to them
Please note that this has been dealt with in other threads :D
DawnTreader
11-10-2006, 12:45
LH
Good points.. However, as earlier stated by LW, If you pay for a meal at a hostel, why are you expected to help with the dishes?? Due to the nature of the hiking "community," and the environment that we would all like to hike in, I agree that it is shady not to offer to help, however to say that it's expected is a stretch..
SGT Rock
11-10-2006, 12:48
Damn DT, I can't see what is so bad about writing down something about how to act. If you took your position to the extreme, there would be no need to write down the Leave No Trace Rules because they are the way people ought to act, or even having the user agreement for the site because everything in that is something you should also know you shouldn't do.
But take it from experience (I was against even needing a set of rules for this site) it is easier to have a set and enforce them with that 1% than expect everyone to be of a common frame of mind.
And as for sniveling, I didn't read it as that. I good a pretty darn good snivel detector.
International and American hostels have traditionally requested you do a chore during your stay and have a sign-up list.
DawnTreader
11-10-2006, 12:54
Rock,
I'm really not against a set of rules.. I read the user agreement and I like structure.. I just don't agree with the people that want to print this list and hand it out to people at amicolola or post it on community room walls.. It would be way to redundant and it would drive this crazy hiker crazier... I don't like universality in rules, thats all.. This list should stay on the internet.. Great article idea for prosepective thru's and first time AT'ers...
Littlest Hobo
11-10-2006, 13:02
This list should stay on the internet.. Great article idea for prosepective thru's and first time AT'ers...
As Jack noted at the beginning of this thread:
A few quick comments to those who'll be hiking next year, on how to be a good house guest, and how to avoid becoming the houseguest from hell
Okay, now that we're all in agreement, I think a group hug is in order :p
SGT Rock
11-10-2006, 13:08
Well OK then. I still think it would make a good article because some people have never ever stayed in a hostel before and don't know what the informal norms are for going to one. This is just one more piece for educating someone before they get on the trail so they sort of know what to expect.
DawnTreader
11-10-2006, 13:22
As Jack noted at the beginning of this thread:
Okay, now that we're all in agreement, I think a group hug is in order :p
Whomever has placed their hand on my ass, please remove it... These group hugs sometimes get a bit out of control....
I still think there is a smidge of snivelling involved here.. remember we're talking about 1 percent of the hiker population........lol
Well, no one should have to put up a sign that says something as obvious as "No Dumping", because everyone knows it's wrong, and in fact those that do it anyway already know it's wrong even as they do it. That's what's really irritating about a topic like this. But some of those signs do include a bit of useful information sometimes, which is the penalty for violators, so instead of posting something obvious like "No pooping on the floor" how about "Those caught pooping on the floor will be made to eat it"
warren doyle
11-10-2006, 14:39
Over the last 34 years that I have been passionate about the trail, I have had my share of house guests who were currently doing a thru-hike. I have never had a problem with inconsiderate hikers mainly because I am selective to who I invite into my home. The only hikers I invite are:
people who don't 'need' nicotine/drugs
people who don't 'need' alcohol
white-blazers only
To the omnipresent critics of my policy, I offer no apology.
Two Speed
11-10-2006, 14:41
Warren, that's generous of you, but I haven't seen any kvetching about your policies in your home. Did I miss something?
No apology needed. It's your house!
Footslogger
11-10-2006, 14:44
Warren, that's generous of you, but I haven't seen any kvetching about your policies in your home. Did I miss something?
=============================
"kvetching" ?? ...where's Mel Brooks when we need him ??
max patch
11-10-2006, 14:45
Its your house. Agree or disagree, no one has the right to criticize your decisions in this regard.
Appalachian Tater
11-10-2006, 14:45
Over the last 34 years that I have been passionate about the trail, I have had my share of house guests who were currently doing a thru-hike. I have never had a problem with inconsiderate hikers mainly because I am selective to who I invite into my home. The only hikers I invite are:
people who don't 'need' nicotine/drugs
people who don't 'need' alcohol
white-blazers only
To the omnipresent critics of my policy, I offer no apology.
....................................... :welcome:banana:banana:banana ............................
SGT Rock
11-10-2006, 14:47
Nope, I wouldn't ever complain about who someone invites to their home. You have a right to only invite people you want to. I wouldn't want every hiker I ever met coming to my house either.
=============================
"kvetching" ??
That's one thing I really miss about New York. The Yiddish.
'Slogger. Check yourself in the miror. I think you have some schmutz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmutz) on your grill. :sun
Footslogger
11-10-2006, 14:51
That's one thing I really miss about New York. The Yiddish.
'Slogger. Check yourself in the miror. I think you have some schmutz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmutz) on your grill. :sun
==============================
Nah ...that's my SNURBARD !!
'Slogger
Two Speed
11-10-2006, 15:07
Man, we're learning new words today. First bahookie, now lessons in Yiddish.
Maybe I phrased my original post badly. If one is a guest in someone else's home common decency dictates that you do your best to adhere to your host's wishes or find accomodations elsewhere.
That's one thing I really miss about New York. The Yiddish.
Yep...sometimes the colorful ethnic words describe something so much better than the "American Standard". I still use 'em...even if the only people who know what the heck I am saying are my fellow Northeast transplants.. They don't pass creamcheese...they pass shmears. :D
Yep...sometimes the colorful ethnic words describe something so much better than the "American Standard". I still use 'em...even if the only people who know what the heck I am saying are my fellow Northeast transplants.. They don't pass creamcheese...they pass shmears. :D
English would be much poorer without Yiddish. :)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-12-2006, 07:27
I don't live close enough to the trail for hikers to come and stay (I have retrieved a few close friends from Fontana Dam / Newfound Gap and Davenport Gap for a night in a real bed, laundry service and a few real meals).
However, I do live close enough to the GSMNP & Dollywood for many family members to believe it is OK to stay at "memonade & papaw's house" during their vacations. While I don't mind house guests, I do mind house guests who don't clean up after themselves and take care of any children or dogs they brought with them. There is a smoking area on the front porch (for people who are 18+ only) and no alcohol or illegal drugs are allowed - this includes keeping a cooler in your car. Memonade isn't as young as she once was - she isn't a lean, mean cooking machine anymore. Papaw's days as a breakfast short-order cook have ended.
Jack, hard as it is, I had to learn to say no and mean it. If you open your home to 200 house guests who you don't know well and who are thru-hiking without significant direction as to what is and isn't acceptable, expect problems.
Jack Tarlin
11-12-2006, 13:17
For around the 400th time, people:
1. I have had hiker guests before.
2. I know what to expect of them.
3. I know there will be occasional---and usually minor---problems.
4. It doesn't matter, I still enjoy having the company.
The purpose of this thread was not to complain or rail about how awful hiker houseguests can be. As I've repeatedly said, most folks are great. The pur-pose of this thread was merely to educate next year's folks on what they can expect to encounter, and what, in turn, is expected of them.
You know how it is...the topic gets away from you sometimes. It'd still make a good article, especially if it covered recognizing the different "types" of host along the spectrum (from friendly neighbor to trailfriend/angel to hostel proprietor to hotel owner) and their particular traditions/habits.
Boat Drinks
11-13-2006, 16:28
Man! You'd think this was Shindler's list with the friggin contoversey it's stirred! :D Are you people just bored? :confused: