Down vs. Synthetic bags.. Help!

[Chris_Asheville]

I need a winter bag, around zero. Any suggestions on fill amount of down? does it matter if it's 600 or 800 fill? Does synthetic keep you as warm?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

800 fill power will give the same warmth for less weight than 600 fill power down. Synthetic bags can be as warm, but tend to be heavier than all down bags for the same warmth. For a winter bag, I would go with the highest fill power down you can afford.

[deadair]

ive always used a 15 degree synthetic sierra designs bag in the winter, never had any problems

[bigcranky]

A zero-F rated bag is pretty good for western North Carolina -- it would keep me warm on the coldest nights, anyway.

Different fill doesn't really change the rating (that is, zero-rated bags of 600, 800, and synthetic fill should all be roughly as warm), but it does change the weight, and more importantly, the bulk. An 800 fill bag, like the Western Mountaineering Antelope, will be lighter and compress smaller than a 600-fill bag, and both will be significantly lighter and smaller than a synthetic bag of the same rating. (All of this assumes high quality bags, BTW.) If you have the cash, the WM bag is very good, as is the Mountain Hardwear Phantom 0, to note two bags with which I am familiar.

I will say that I "feel" warmer in a down bag than a synthetic, but that is entirely a subjective, personal judgement, and one that is not universally shared by all. A down bag will also last longer, in general, and so can be less expensive in the long run. (Though the initial cost can be staggering.)

[dloome]

Fill power refers to the number of cubic inches one ounce of down will expand to in a 24 hour period. It basically tells you how fine the down is. Like someone mentioned, the fill power doesn't effect the temperature rating, it effects the weight of the bag- An ounce of 800 fill down is going to fill more space than an ounce of 500 fill down so less can be used in the construction of the bag, producing a lesser overall weight and a (much) greater overall price.

There are a a lot of factors that determine how warm you sleep besides the temp rating of the bag, but generally speaking, temperature ratings are going to be optimistic for most people by about 5-10 degrees in my experience. Higher quality bags will be more accurate to their rating regardless of whether it is down or synthetic.

For a down bag especially, you may want to consider using a vapor barrier liner to avoid condensation problems when camping for multiple days in very cold weather.

[ed bell]

I need a winter bag, around zero. Any suggestions on fill amount of down? does it matter if it's 600 or 800 fill? Does synthetic keep you as warm?Winter is where the extra bucks for a quality down bag really pays off. Anyone who has spent an alarmingly cold night in an insufficient sleeping bag probably agrees. It is important to ask yourself how often you will use it, so I would make that the deciding factor before going towards the top shelf.:sun

[hammock engineer]

Another thing to consider is that the 800 fill down bag is going to last longer than the other options is properly cared for.

[ed bell]

I need a winter bag, around zero. Any suggestions on fill amount of down? does it matter if it's 600 or 800 fill? Does synthetic keep you as warm?Winter is where the extra bucks for a quality down bag really pays off. Anyone who has spent an alarmingly cold night in an insufficient sleeping bag probably agrees. It is important to ask yourself how often you will use it, so I would make that the deciding factor before going towards the top shelf.:sun

[saimyoji]

My personal opinion:

I've owned both synthetic and down bags. All my down bags are now either destroyed or useless. I currently own 3 synthetic bags, a (7 yr old) formerly 30* bag but due to compression damage is now a 45* bag, a 40* and a 15* bag the last two are recent purchases.

I decided to avoid down for the following reasons:

against down:
down is more expensive.
down requires more attention on cleaning.
if down gets soaked through, you are screwed.

for synthetic:
its cheaper (my 40* bag was 50% off, 15* bag was 60% off) (less than 150 for both)
its easier to clean
it can get wet
if it gets wet, no problem

These are my basic reasons. I had to weigh price, weight, bulk, care, and on trail wear. My priorities came down as such: wear (will it keep me warm even if it gets wet?), price (cheaper than down), weight/bulk (down wins here, no contest :o), care (take care and both should work out for you). :)

I almost bought a new down bag recently, and may return my recently purchased 15* bag if it doesn't prove itself on its first real test (it has yet to get below 10* where I live).......do your homework, buy what you can afford. I guess most important is the fit, feel and comfort of the bag at the lowest temp you'll encounter. NEVER buy a bag you cannot return if it won't keep you warm at the temp you expect. ALWAYS clean test the bag before you take it in the field (sleep in it in your tent in your backyard, or in the meat locker of the local butcher if you must...:eek:)

In the end, it it will be a personal decision. You just need more experience with the different types of bags at different temperatures. If you can't afford the time/cost to experiment, go with what you can afford.

[highway]

Prevalence of opinion is that down lasts longer, is lighter, costs more.

Dont get hung up by the "warm when wet" misnomer for synthetics. Any wet item against your skin cools you-including a wet sleeping bag. It is not hard keeping your down bag dry-double bag & tie it off reversed into 2 silnylon bags and you could submerge it under water if you wanted to.

[hopefulhiker]

I would go with down, check out Western Mountaneering,pricey, but one of the best, also consider a silk liner to help keep the bag clean and warmer...

[dloome]

Dont get hung up by the "warm when wet" misnomer for synthetics. Any wet item against your skin cools you-including a wet sleeping bag. It is not hard keeping your down bag dry-double bag & tie it off reversed into 2 silnylon bags and you could submerge it under water if you wanted to.

I AGREE. Carrying a synthetic bag is NOT some kind of guarantee that you'll sleep all cozy warm in wet conditions. A wet synthetic bag can still be very dangerous is cold weather. I've spent nights in wet bags, both down and synthetic, and I can assure you that both situations were extremely uncomfortable and cold. The best solution is to understand why and how moisture collects in your sleeping bags insulation and do your best to prevent it from happening- Undertstand how condensation forms, especially in colder weather, use a pack liner as well as a waterproof stuff sack for your bag. Use a VBL on extended subfreezing or Winter trips.

I believe down is a superior insulating material- It does take a little more care and skill to keep it dry and to care for, but I think the benefits are well worth it.

[Chris_Asheville]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I bought a Mountain hardwear 3rd Dimension 0 degree synthetic. I weighed all the options (no pun intended) and discovered synthetic is a better fit for me, since everytime I go hiking/camping to pours!! The bag also has an extra zip on the side to expand the bag. It's quite awesome.
Thanks again.

[saimyoji]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I bought a Mountain hardwear 3rd Dimension 0 degree synthetic. I weighed all the options (no pun intended) and discovered synthetic is a better fit for me, since everytime I go hiking/camping to pours!! The bag also has an extra zip on the side to expand the bag. It's quite awesome.
Thanks again.


I recently bought the 2nd dimension on sale at EMS, nearly $100 off. So far I'm liking it, though it hasn't been cold enough to test it out yet.

[saimyoji]

I recently bought the 2nd dimension on sale at EMS, nearly $100 off. So far I'm liking it, though it hasn't been cold enough to test it out yet.

I meant to add congratulations, hope it works for you. If you have no experience with using a down bag, it may be worthwhile to borrow someone's bag for a weekend, just to try it out. You may find you like it.

[highway]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I bought a Mountain hardwear 3rd Dimension 0 degree synthetic. I weighed all the options (no pun intended) and discovered synthetic is a better fit for me, since everytime I go hiking/camping to pours!! The bag also has an extra zip on the side to expand the bag. It's quite awesome.
Thanks again.

If i gets wet, you get cold. Dont bet a night's discomfort on an often parroted misnomer and buy synthetic on the off-chance it might become wet. Whichever you choose, keep it dry.