Clue me in about hammocks, please

[Old Grouse]

I’ve been away from hiking for a few years .... ok, a few decades, really. If it weren’t for all this wonderful ultralight gear, I might not be coming back now. And hammocks - well, I had an army surplus jungle hammock back in the 60s that I found totally unsatisfactory.

Now it’s rumored that there are wonderful hammocks on the market which weigh less than tents, can be set up in minutes with your eyes closed, are bugproof, rodentrpoof, relatively stormproof, are comfortable even for side and stomach sleepers, and will cook your breakfast for you. Hammock afficionados are so dedicated that they highjack every third thread to rhapsodize about hammocks’ virtues to the ground-sleeping hoi polloi.

Yet among themselves hammock users spend a suspicious lot of time talking about how to stay warm and dry. It appears that a hammock is only the first purchase. To really stay dry one needs a larger tarp above the hammock and a waterproof bottom cover to combat splash-up. Then there are all the pads, pad extenders and wings, under-quilts and over-quilts, drip lines, space blankets, windshield covers, snake skins, etc, etc. I can’t see how this full panoply of gear can take less weight or space than the average ultralight tent and pad.

Now I recognize gear lovers’ talk when I hear it, so I discount some of this. And I know that a big blowy rain will have its way with you to some extent unless you’re in a Holiday Inn, but that still leaves me confused. Would one of you hammock cognoscenti please answer this simple question: What’s the practical low temp range below which the average hiker will need to get into all the extras?

Thanks in advance.
OG

[berninbush]

Wow, this thread is gonna get a lot of answers very quick I predict. *grin*

[Footslogger]

Well ...I would tell you that if the temps are in the mid/low 30's and there's a wind you're gonna be fighting to stay warm UNLESS you have some of the "extras" you mentioned.

I bought my hammock long before all the current cold weather adaptations were available. It's the original Hennessey Ultralight Backpacer. Weighs about 1.5lbs. Had some of the most comfortable nights I can remember up in the north Georgia mountains from June to October.

You're question is a good one. I decided after a lot of experimentation with all of the gadgets (most of which you metioned) that for me at least, it wasn't worth it to try and make a hammock a comfortable cold weather shelter.

That's my experience, but as the first reply suggests ...I think you're gonna get a lot of different responses on this one !!

'Slogger

[2XL]

O.G.,
Not exactly the answer to your question but,
the comfortable temperature range for everyone is different. I don't like hanging without my Nest below 50.
I live in Ridgefield and would show you my Hennessey Explorer Deluxe Hammock set up with my JRB Nest and No Sniveler if you want to check out the system.

[K-Man]

Kinda tough to answer that without going into all of the details about pads/underquilts/tarps/topquilts/etc. If you meant, what is the lowest temp one can sleep in with the minimal amount of hammock gear, then I would say as follows. Making the switch from a tent (where you will already have a type of ground pad and sleeping bag) to a hammock, You can prob be warm and comfortable to around 45 to 50 degrees. You could probably tolerate temps in that range using the pad underneath you and the sleeping bag on top. Going lower than that is getting you into the "hammock accessories". I would say lower, but if you start rolling around and compress the loft in your bag with your knees against the side of the hammock, you will def get cold spots. It took me a while, and lots of trial and error, but I found a system that works for me that has been tested down to 25*. I would feel comfortable going even lower too. I love my hammock more than my bed at home...

[Ewker]

lots of threads here on hammocking or you can go to www.hammockforums.net (http://www.hammockforums.net) some of the folks post on both sites

[Singe03]

Planning a followup thru in 2008 (only a few bits I missed in 2003 but I want to do the whole thing again).

I fully plan on hammocking most of the way again but I'll start and finish with a tent and save the hammock for the warmer months. There are alot of hammock zealots here who are in to the gadgets, but for me hammocks are awesome when the temperatures are right, but not worth the effort when it is cold.

[K-Man]

but not worth the effort when it is cold.

Blasphemy!! lol :D

[trippclark]

. . . please answer this simple question: What’s the practical low temp range below which the average hiker will need to get into all the extras?


OG,

I loved your post, and you are right on both counts - we who use hammocks are often quite enthusiastic about how great they are, AND we do spend a great deal of time talking about the limitations as well.

I have been hammocking for 3-4 years now. I also do a bit of volunteer work with the Scouts. I am often asked about hammock gear by Scouts and Scouters. The thing is that most campers and hikers start off as ground sleepers and then switch. When you switch it is a big change - unlike just switching from one tent to another, you are switching your shelter and sleeping system.

I am a cold sleeper. At home, when the temps in the house get below 75 I am looking for more covers. So when I am hammocking, the only time that I sleep in the hammock with no bottom insulation at all is when the nightime low is going to be 70 degrees or above - so basically summer months only. Most people would probably be comfortable a bit below that though, and I could be fairly comfortable to 60 degrees, I expect, but prefer the underquilt insulation.

Anytime temps will be less, I bring my JRB Nest (for my Hennessy) or my Peapod (for my Speer) and attach these loosely for more airflow, or tighter for colder temps.

Before I purchased either of these underquilts, however, I used a regular blue closed cell foam pad in the hammock. Using this, and with an opened sleeping bag as a quilt (before I bought a Speer top quilt) and wearing mid-weight long underwear, I was warm to around 50 degrees . . . maybe a bit cooler. Pads are a pain, however. They reduce the comfort of the hammock. They slide around . . . and if you slip off of one with an elbow or knee you find an instand cold spot.

If you get a hammock, you will likely become a convert (most, but not all, do). I expect, though, that you will be happiest with a full system (either Hennessy & JRB or Speer) that includes the hammock and insulation.

Regarding your comment about the hammock system weights compared to tent and pad and sleping bag, I think you will find that the hammock system is still lighter - and much more comfortable - than most tent/pad/bag systems until you get well below freezing. Then the amount of under-insulation needed to stay warm in the hammock starts to pick up.

In rough numbers, a hammock with a tarp is going to be 2 - 2.5 lbs. An underquilt and top quilt will be about 1.25 lbs each. This gives 4.5 to 5 lbs for the combined shelter/sleeping systems. While there are lighter options (tarp, no pad, etc.), this is still lighter than most tent, sleeping pad, and sleeping bag combinations.

I hope this helps!

[Just Jeff]

Part of the talk is gear lovers doing what we do. Part of it is that, while people have been sleeping in tents in cold weather for years, hammocking in anything other than tropical weather is still a pretty new industry - so there's a lot of experimenting going on. That's what generates a lot of the buzz - just discussing new ways to do things.

I agree with the others, though - you can probably sleep with just a bag until about 70F, then add your normal ground pad until 50 or so.

Or you could take the $250 you'd spend on a tent, spend $150 on a hammock and another $40 on a SPE and be good to as cold as you want to go. Better yet, spend $25 on a homemade hammock and SPE. Then when you're ready for breathability and more comfort (IMO), spring for the underquilts.

I've never had a problem with water splashing up from underneath b/c I use a big enough tarp. Choose good sites (just as you'd do when tenting) and you'll probably stay drier in a hammock than a tent...less condensation b/c you're under a tarp, no crawling around on the ground, etc.

It's really not complicated - just a new skill set for most folks, so it generates a lot of discussion.

[hammock engineer]

One thing to consider on ground spashing is the height off of the ground. The bottom of my hammock is usually 2-3 feet off of the ground. It is going to take a lot of rain splash to jump that high.

I use a decent size tarp. When pitched I can't see my hammock underneath. I only spent 5 nights or so in rain, but I haven't gotten wet due to the blowing rain yet.

Like Jeff said you can make a hammock for really cheap if you can sew a straight line and are not affraid to tweek things. There is an ebay store that a few of us have been ordering $1.5 a yard material from.

Pads are cheap and bulky, but with the right one and your normal sleeping bag you should be fine. I can make it into the 30's with a 1/2 ccp and my 20 deg bag with the usual clothes. I consider myself I cooler sleeper.

Like others have said, hammocking has a learning curve to it. There is more to consider than just setting up a tent and throwing your pad into it. Keep asking questions here or on HammockForums.

[neo]

lots of threads here on hammocking or you can go to www.hammockforums.net (http://www.hammockforums.net) some of the folks post on both sites i love janet reno


:D eddie told me his nieghbor caught him in a hammock with janeto reno:cool: neo

[freefall]

Like others have said, hammocking has a learning curve to it.

If you do get a hammock, practice, practice, practice. While in principle a hammock is very easy to set up, it takes many repetitions to get it right. Getting the tautness, the height and angle will probably take a little while to get adjusted so that it feels right to you.
There was a guy on trailjournals this year that went out backpacking without practicing set up first. He was absolutely miserable and posted a very heated journal entry blasting hammocks. That's when I first got my hammock so I made sure I knew it inside and out before hitting the trail.
The only two times I've been wet in my hammock were in HEAVY fog and once during a severe thunderstorm. The wind pulled my fly's stakes out of the ground.
I don't use underquilts at all. I just use my inflatable sleep pad and my sleeping bag. With a 20* bag and liner, I slept fine down to 20*. But I like it cool when I sleep.
I never want to be a ground-dweller again!:sun

[Michele]

Really...the only " accessory" that is unique to hammocking is an underquilt . Here's my tent/hammock comparison:

Tent = Hammock
Rain Fly = Tarp
Stakes = Stakes
Sleeping Bag = Sleeping Bag or Over Quilt
Sleeping Pad = Sleeping Pad
Tent Stuff sack = Hammock Stuff Sack or Snakeskins
Earth = Underquilt

I'm a new hammocker right smack dab in the middle of my learning curve, but despite the new terminology and new way of camping, I'll never go back to the ground. BUT...with a hammock...you CAN go to the ground if you have to...it's a beautiful thing and well worth just trying. I recommend attending one of the hammocking hangouts...that's where I hung my hammock the first time and it accelerated my progress ten fold.

[Fiddleback]

There were certain decades when I didn't backpack too. I started in the 60s, skipped the 70s. Returned with my bride in the 80s, skipped the 90s. And back again.:)

I 'discovered' hammocking and ultralight bp'ing at the same time. While I think the two go together, others do not. But here's my premise: for me, comfort is the result of three major considerations; pack weight, warmth, and what's it feel like when I lie down (padding). The hammock may be beat by tarp camping for weight...and, I suspect almost any style of ground sleeping beats hammocking for warmth...but nothing I've ever experienced beats the comfort of laying back on a hammock for the night. That's not just me, that's a legion of hammockers.

The small weight penalty of hammocking and the learning curve of keeping warm is more than made up for by the comfort gained by not having to sleep on the ground. Frankly, I think the emphasis on cold hammocking is a bit over done. Yes, it takes some effort to find the right bottom insulation but that is all we're talking about. And since we're all different with different comfort levels there's a wide range of solutions. My solution is a 7oz pad, some insulated clothing and, just recently, an 18oz quilt. That takes me to 20-25° (actually, I haven't used the quilt in the hammock yet..without a bag/cover I've done high-to-mid 20s). I realize that's not winter camping but it is a range that affords a long three-season and my shelter, my sleep system, and my bad weather clothing comes in at 8lbs. I think that's pretty good given that I'm relatively new to both hammocking and UL.

I don't see any reason why anyone can't achieve that 20-something temp range in a hammock with minimal effort and expense. YMMV.

FB

[hammock engineer]

If you are worried about weights, check out Risk's setup (http://www.imrisk.com/) (scroll down to the bottom), Jeff's setup (http://www.tothewoods.net/GearList.html), or the Jack's setup (http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Gear%20List.htm). They are all pretty ultralight. I'm no where close to them, but it makes the case for hammocks being light.

[MedicineMan]

for poor people in the amazon? get a good tent man and grovel on the ground. Do it with dignity and forget this silly fad.

[hammock engineer]

for poor people in the amazon? get a good tent man and grovel on the ground. Do it with dignity and forget this silly fad.

Yes everyone should give it up.;) I'll change my user name to "tent engineer".

[FanaticFringer]

Save the forest. Buy a tent.:D

[landcruzr]

This is my first year in a hammock and have spent several nights in just the hammock with a sleeping bag- but just got back from a one nighter where I had to bring out some type of insulation- temps got to the low 30's here last night- and this was my set up...........
SOme kind of "skeeter beater" hammock from Sportsmans guide http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=259631
9x9 neo special tarp http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=97247
and this quilt I found on sportsmans guide for under $15 (prices have since gone up) http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=235036
In the cold air last night, I flipped the hammock over and stuffed the quilt between the bug netting and the hammock
No problems with the cold air, and the best nights sleep I have had EVER on the trail.....
I know that this isnt the lightest, fanciest, most expensive set up out there- and the quilt is a little bulky- but it really worked well- and I'm not broke from the whole thing
There may be times that I might have to go to ground again- but only if absolutely necessary
Landcruzr

[chazmo]

I started reading this forum, and Risk's and JustJeff's sites over the summer. I started experimenting with fabric from stuffMarts dollar a yard table.

The hammock and sil-nylon tarp I made are about a pound and a half lighter than the tent I was using. The poncho I use for an under-cover, and the ccf and insulmat pads I would have been carrying anyways, so that is a wash in terms of weight.

I have been perfectly warm and comfortable with (lowest temp so far was this past weekend: 25 degrees) with the pads; and I like the back up that I can sleep on the ground with them if necessary--although I will darn tootin do any thing I can to prevent that from happening again!

It had been 20 years since I last backpacked. My sons were getting interested in Scouting, and I wanted to go along to encourage thier interest in the outdoors. BUT, I was miserable--I could not get a good nights sleep even doubling a ccf and inflatable pad. And talk about stiff and sore in the morning...

The hammock has been great! So great I had to make my wife one (she is now more than happy to go on overnights with us!)

[Old Grouse]

Thanks, everyone, for all the thoughtful replies. The consensus seems to be that a hammock with just a pad is comfortable down to about 50 degrees, and below that is when you start to need the additional gear.

Have a great Thanksgiving and eat turkey, not an....
Old Grouse

[Just Jeff]

True - but the additional gear can be as simple as another pad. Hope you give it a try!

[scope]

Thanks, everyone, for all the thoughtful replies. The consensus seems to be that a hammock with just a pad is comfortable down to about 50 degrees, and below that is when you start to need the additional gear.

Went hanging for my first time last month, experienced 40s with just a closed cell pad in my HH. I set up in a windy spot, too. I wore a jacket inside a 20-degree bag and was fine. The 24" width of the pad did OK, but wouldn't go any smaller than that. I'll probably get on of those Speer extenders so I can take my 20" wide thermarest next time.

I'd say 50 is probably a good number, maybe on the conservative side. Don't be psyched out by it all, its really not that hard to figure. I spent a year telling myself I needed a solo tent before succumbing, all because I thought hammocking was going to be too complex for what I wanted. I'm finding it to be much simpler than tenting, and less bulk in or on my pack.