PDA

View Full Version : Best training regimen for AT speed attempt?



lobster
11-20-2006, 11:49
What is your advice?

I will first attempt to get this heavy shell off!

Just Jeff
11-20-2006, 11:59
Probably start with getting off the computer and on the trail.

Gaiter
11-20-2006, 12:06
no need to get on the trail, just keep on hiting your head against hard objects, you'll be the fastest ever!!!

warren doyle
11-20-2006, 12:25
What are you attempting and when?

Jack Tarlin
11-20-2006, 12:27
Ummm, Warren.......the guy is kidding, and is merely stirring the pot. He does this frequently.

If you bothered to visit with us more often, you'd know this. :D

Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-20-2006, 12:36
My advice for training - we equip all the fellows with the items discussed in the 'Sword' thread and let them chase you cross-country. Should be good for your motivation and board morale - a win/win situation.

warren doyle
11-20-2006, 12:43
And the beat goes on.

lobster
11-20-2006, 12:49
I figure I should take up the mantle of the greatest hiker of the modern world since Squeaky evidently has retired from competitive endurance events and gone straight to the kitchen!

Jack Tarlin
11-20-2006, 12:56
The beat goes on?

All I was saying is that this thread is an obvious joke, and anyone who is here regularly would know this right off.

Sorry if you're offended, Warren.

But the thread is a joke; Lobster isn't about to do a speed hike; so there's no reason for you to get all excited and twitchy about what he's got planned.

And THAT'S what I was trying to tell you, Warren, OK?

And by the way, a big laughing smiley face (like this: :D ) generally indicates that a post is said in jest.

But fact is, if you DID bother to visit here more often, you'd have known all about Lobster and his attempts to be "provocative" here.

OK, now that we've explained that, you can go away for awhile, at least til it's time to send us another ad for the "Institute."

(And notice.......no smiley face. This means, Warren, that I was perfectly serious).

The beat does indeed go on....... :D

warren doyle
11-20-2006, 13:17
ll: jtbj l jtbj l jtbj :ll

Audience: "When will it ever stop?"

Gray Blazer
11-20-2006, 13:30
Train like Benny Hill (A little Yakety Sax music, please). He chases a few co-eds...when he gets a little winded they take an article of clothing off and he starts again...this goes on until he is completely worn out and then his trainers set some male homosexuals on his rear and he runs for his life!!

lobster
11-20-2006, 13:31
I might like that!!

Lone Wolf
11-20-2006, 13:33
What is your advice?

I will first attempt to get this heavy shell off!

Do like Maineak did. Played wiffle ball and drank beer. Hit the trail 30lbs. overweight and hike 50 miles the first day.

Nightwalker
11-22-2006, 15:49
The beat goes on?

Dang, but you're easy.

DawnTreader
11-22-2006, 17:47
I havn't been around here long, but am I missing something between Jack and Warren??... Everytime Warren posts, Jack is usually posting right after him, and its usually some sort of attack, disguised so it dosn't really seem like an attack, but after seeing this many many times, I really do think it might be an attack.. any chance of you just letting Warren alone Jack? Maybe then he might post some useful info here, instead of just garbage about speed records and what not... just asking..

Lone Wolf
11-22-2006, 20:05
Jack really hates Warren. Warren has more miles and knowledge than him. Jealousy.

Biloxi
11-22-2006, 20:44
:D maybe they should have a hike off...till the death..only manly thing to do:banana

Appalachian Tater
11-22-2006, 21:06
Warren Doyle, if you come back to read this thread, would you please consider letting me join the Internegator Club? I've been wanting to join and become an Internegator for at least a year now but I always seem to miss you. It would really mean a lot to me. Thanks for your consideration!

Crash! Bang!
11-22-2006, 23:52
whats the record for most miles hiked naked? anyone know? i would like to break that record

:-D

lobster
11-23-2006, 12:16
Jack,

I wanted to specifically ask you for assistance since you have so many connections from your many years of sitting at the computer and giving advice.

warren doyle
11-23-2006, 15:23
DawnTreader

Always nice to read an accurate analysis from an objective 'outsider' perspective.
Your post will neither be the first nor the last on this subject.
Happy trails!

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 18:58
Silly thread. To Treader:

1. Jack does not hate Warren.
2. Jack is certainly not in any way, shape, or form, jealous of Warren.
Wolf is peevish because he essentially doesn't hike much anymore, and
is troubled by those who still do, but it was still a silly thing for him to say.
3. Jack would be happy to see Warren contribute more often here, rather
than limit his comments to speed record attempts, or by repeatedly
coming here to "sell" his expertise and knowledge at his alleged "Trail
Institute", which is essentially his sole interest in this website.
4. If Warren insists on limiting his contributions here to self-promotion, well
this doesn't mean I hate him, but I certainly don't much respect him very
much, and I'll happily acknowledge this. Whatever Wolf might feel about
Warren's mileage and knowledge, he hasn't been in much of a hurry to
share it on the Internet, tho he he's perfectly happy to offer this
knowledge for sale. Evidently Wolf thinks this is somethhing I should find
praiseworthy and should respect. I tend to disagree.


Dawn Treader: Please go back and look at the start of this thread: I wasn't bashing him in any way; I was merely telling him to calm down a bit and temper his enthusiasm about Lobster's alleged speed hike, which was, of course, a complete joke. There is no Lobster speed hike. This was, of course, obvious to anyone who spends anytime here and is familiar with Lobster's posts.

Sorry, Treader, but watching Warren's eager and excited, "What are you attempting and when?" was pretty funny, especially to those of us who've become familiar with Lobster's posts here. It was patently obvious that Lobster's speed hike was a jest, and only someone who pops in here infrequently, and usually on the same types of threads, would have failed to see this.

So Treader, calm yourself. I wasn't "attacking" poor Mr. Doyle. I was merely kindly informing him that Lobster was not, in fact, attempting a serious speed hike, so it was nothing for Warren to get all hot and bothered about.

OK now?

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 19:36
Jack,
You did it again..... I know very well that Lobster was just being Lobster, and that this thread is silly... I just don't understand why you need to post after Warren every time he chooses to do so. It seems to me that you "informing" Warren in this case, was your way of "attacking, without attacking", as I explained above. And in this your most recent post, you continue, by calling Warren, "poor Mr. Doyle" . You will in no way convince me or any other level headed person on this site that you were being cordial by "kindly informing" Warren, and asking Warren not to get all "hot and bothered." It is obvious through your tone and almost imediate response to a lot of Warrens posts, that you have a addiction to what he writes, and you must be the first to respond.
I would never attend an AT institute, and frankly this topic has been played out, however, Whiteblaze is a public site, and advertisers of AT related goods or services are accepted around here, and Warren dosn't push his institute nearly as much as some people push their goods on this site. So leave it alone
Forget about Warren and his lust for speed hiking
Warren...
Chime in on some other topics once in a while.. Lots of people here would love to pick your brain.. let us in...
Happy Turkey Day!
DT

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 19:43
Hey Dawn---

I assure you I've better things to talk about.

One quick comment tho regarding selling things here at WB .... Dawn, some of the folks that push their goods here regularly also support this website, they give a percentage of their sales to the ATC and to other Trail-related causes, to annual Trail maintenance events, etc.

If Mr. Doyle practices this sort of philanthrophy as well, especially as far as supporting Whiteblaze financially, donating to Damascus Hardcore, etc., I'd be delighted to hear about it.

When I do so, then you can happily tell me to "Leave it Alone", OK?

Happy Holidays.

Lone Wolf
11-23-2006, 19:54
Silly thread. To Treader:

1. Jack does not hate Warren.
2. Jack is certainly not in any way, shape, or form, jealous of Warren.
Wolf is peevish because he essentially doesn't hike much anymore, and
is troubled by those who still do, but it was still a silly thing for him to say.
3. Jack would be happy to see Warren contribute more often here, rather
than limit his comments to speed record attempts, or by repeatedly
coming here to "sell" his expertise and knowledge at his alleged "Trail
Institute", which is essentially his sole interest in this website.
4. If Warren insists on limiting his contributions here to self-promotion, well
this doesn't mean I hate him, but I certainly don't much respect him very
much, and I'll happily acknowledge this. Whatever Wolf might feel about
Warren's mileage and knowledge, he hasn't been in much of a hurry to
share it on the Internet, tho he he's perfectly happy to offer this
knowledge for sale. Evidently Wolf thinks this is somethhing I should find
praiseworthy and should respect. I tend to disagree.


Dawn Treader: Please go back and look at the start of this thread: I wasn't bashing him in any way; I was merely telling him to calm down a bit and temper his enthusiasm about Lobster's alleged speed hike, which was, of course, a complete joke. There is no Lobster speed hike. This was, of course, obvious to anyone who spends anytime here and is familiar with Lobster's posts.

Sorry, Treader, but watching Warren's eager and excited, "What are you attempting and when?" was pretty funny, especially to those of us who've become familiar with Lobster's posts here. It was patently obvious that Lobster's speed hike was a jest, and only someone who pops in here infrequently, and usually on the same types of threads, would have failed to see this.

So Treader, calm yourself. I wasn't "attacking" poor Mr. Doyle. I was merely kindly informing him that Lobster was not, in fact, attempting a serious speed hike, so it was nothing for Warren to get all hot and bothered about.

OK now?

To Treader:

1. Jack may not hate Warren but rather despises him.
2. Wolf is certainly not peevish (had to look that one up) He actually hikes quite a bit, just doesn't advertise to the masses like Jack does. Wolf is troubled by those that still hike? What a silly thing to say.:D
3. Jack wishes Warren would go away. He wants the spotlight to himself.
4. Same as above:)

Egads
11-23-2006, 20:06
I regret the time & effort I wasted reading this thread.

Egads

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 20:08
Alrighty then... sore subject I suppose.. I was just trying appreciate what appeared to me as a d*ck move on Jacks part, Jack says I'm wrong.. I guess you hold celebrity veto...
To wolf and Jack. For the record, I am neither "Dawn", nor "Treader". I will accept DT or "DawnTreader" .. the two names seperated just don't jive.. Wish I was drinkin' a beer with you two tonight!!

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 20:08
You might have had to look it up but you still sound peevish. :D

Happy Thankgiving anyway!!

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 20:13
DawnTreader--

Will join you for that beer on another occasion, hope you had a great day!

And Egads, as far as your regrets, well this was, after all, a Lobster-started thread. When you spend any time here, you kinda know what to expect from those, which is sorta the point I made way back on my first post to Warren....

Whatever. You have a good holiday, too.

emerald
11-23-2006, 20:13
Earlier I got carried away with composing a post. It might have been one of the best I ever wrote. As has happened too often before in such instances when I forget to keep clicking preview post and strike post without copying it to my clipboard first, just in case, I was "timed out" and lost it all.

I really wish someone would fix things so that one could provide one's screen name and password at that point and not loose what one has spent so much time composing. When the screen name and password is supplied, all I get is pretty much a blank screen.

Anyway, when I was hiking today I recalled Thanksgiving what I believe was 25 years ago. A group comprised largely of 2000 Milers met at what I believe at the time was called Pinkham Notch Camp and climbed Mt. Washington the following day. Much dancing and merriment followed. I will never forget that day. Thanks Warren and everyone else who was there and may be reading.

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 20:16
Hey Dawn---

I assure you I've better things to talk about.

One quick comment tho regarding selling things here at WB .... Dawn, some of the folks that push their goods here regularly also support this website, they give a percentage of their sales to the ATC and to other Trail-related causes, to annual Trail maintenance events, etc.

If Mr. Doyle practices this sort of philanthrophy as well, especially as far as supporting Whiteblaze financially, donating to Damascus Hardcore, etc., I'd be delighted to hear about it.

When I do so, then you can happily tell me to "Leave it Alone", OK?

Happy Holidays.
Is this the only reason you get on Warren's back so quickly?? What business is it of yours where his earned money goes? and if you have some inside info concerning his financial situation, i.e. who he donates to and who he dosn't, I don't think it is good form to post it on the internet. If you don't know if he does or dosn't, then you don't know.. but it sounds like you know.. so, not cool..

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 20:16
Shades--

Some of us will be doing that next Saturday in Glencliff over Trashgiving Weekend. Some folks will hang out and cook all day, some will go for a walk, and some may head up Moosilauke if the weather permits.

Hope you can join us.

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 20:19
Geez. Maybe I'll hold off on that beer, you don't sound like such great company, at least not tonight.

No, I have no inside info on his financial situation, pal,nor am I particularly interested. I was merely responding to YOU, who made the point that some people come onto this site to sell stuff more often than he does. Well some of them actually give something back to the website once in awhile, which is a helluva lot more than he does, OK?

Got it now?

Good night. This is starting to bore me.

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 20:26
cmon.. Jack, thats a cop out.. like it or not Warren has contributed to the trail, directly and indirectly. And neither of us knows if Warren has donated 1 dollar or 10,000 dollars to this site, ATC, ALDHA, meals on weals, freeing Tibet, or saving Greyhounds... just watch what you say about things you don't know about.. Yeah, I'd much rather have a beer with LW anyway, he dosn't seem as threatend by people on the internet as you..

warren doyle
11-23-2006, 20:30
DawnTreader,

If you look at my posts (and threads I started), many of them are on topics that I am interested in or feel I have some knowledge on. They are:

1) Group/expedition travel on the AT
2) The philosophical/psychological aspects of long distance hiking
3) Long distance endurance hiking on the AT/LT
4) Rules and regulations
5) Day hiking the entire trail

I also started a thread for people to ask me any questions concerning AT thru-hike/section hike planning.

I value face-to-face interactions the most and I try to make myself available by sharing my knowledge at Damascus Trail Days (every one except the first); ALDHA Gatherings (the first 24); 'Contradancers Delight' Holidays; numerous slide shows/lectures; and, meeting local AT trail dreamers over a meal. I also organize two to three ATI sessions a year here at Lees-McRae College.

I am not interested in the following topics/areas:
1) food
2) equipment
3) clothing
4) hiker services
5) shelters
6) alcohol
7) responding to the few 'internegators' that reside on this website

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 20:30
Yeah, I feel horribly threatened by you, I'm positively shaking. You have no idea how terrorized I feel at this moment.

Please stay away and stop scaring people, OK?

Thank you.

Gotta go away and laugh now. G'night.

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 20:33
not talking about me Jack.... I think your threatend by Warren...

There ya go Jack, Warren has a nice little list of the contributions he's made to this site.. isn't that cute.. satisfied yet?
Thanks for the info Warren..

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 20:35
Hey Warren, thanks for your biographical note above.

But please refrain from telling us how you feel about "Rules and Regulations".

We've been down that road before and it ain't one of your strong points.

But thank you for reminding us of your extensive experience as a day-hiker.

Some of the folks here not interested in Long-Distance backpacking might find this to be interesting.

emerald
11-23-2006, 20:36
Lobster, I know I was somewhat off-topic with my first post to this thread and I'm afraid I am still off-topic with my current post. I hope you can overlook this, and will see fit to answer my question anyway.:o I am new to the type of hiking you do and am curious.;) :)

Do you intend to travel overland to the source of the Chattahoochee River, agua-blaze to the Atlantic Ocean, up the Penobscot River to Abol Bridge and then take up travel overland to Baxter Peak?:-?

Would you say this is your preferred route or is there some other that best suits--how to say it?--hikers with special needs?

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 20:38
Treader---

I can think of 50 people that have contributed more to this website, and they don't feel the need to advertsise their alleged contributions, either.

Glad you're so easily impresssed.

warren doyle
11-23-2006, 20:40
Yes, Shades of Gray, I remember what a fine time that was. And I do believe there was no alcohol involved either.

I'm getting excited about the annual 'sledding down the auto road in January' with some hiking buddies after the 'Contradancers Delight' Holiday in Morgantown, WV.

Our family will be dancing all day on Saturday at the Butterball just south of Wilmington, DE.

emerald
11-23-2006, 20:44
Shades--

Some of us will be doing that next Saturday in Glencliff over Trashgiving Weekend. Some folks will hang out and cook all day, some will go for a walk, and some may head up Moosilauke if the weather permits.

Hope you can join us.

Thanks for the invitation. Moosilaukee is a really great place, but I don't believe I'd be able to make it this year.:(

I look forward to meeting you some other time, hopefully soon.

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 20:45
so this went from Warren not contributing enough, therfore, being subject to your ridicule, to Warren answering MY statement, again, being subject to your ridicule. Don't make much sense to me.. By the way, your clearly not one of those people who low-pro your contributions to this site and the trail.. Just an observation...

emerald
11-23-2006, 20:52
I'm getting excited about the annual 'sledding down the auto road in January' with some hiking buddies after the 'Contradancers Delight' Holiday in Morgantown, WV.

Our family will be dancing all day on Saturday at the Butterball just south of Wilmington, DE.

I think I saw somewhere there was a dance last year at Lakeview. Same event? My fraternity held their annual formal there on quite a few occasions. It was a great facility for such events.

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 21:02
Um Treader....not to rain on your parade, but I didn't bother responding to Warren's swollen-headed self-flattery because I lacked the time and inclination.

But his grandiose list of contributions doesn't really cut it, Ok?

Let's look at what he's bragging about to see what the big deal is:

1. He magnanimously volunteered to answer questions directed just at himself.

Uh, Gee Whiz, Treader, but most of us here at WB answer direcxt questions from anyone all the time....his grandly offering to perform the same service is not, at the end of the day, all that impressive.

2. He lists all of the things that he's not interested in and WON'T be talking about. Fine. But believe it or not, lots of folks are actUally interested in such things as food, gear, hiker facilities, etc. But if Doyle has nothing useful or constructive to teach people about on these and other matters, fine. There are certainly plenty of other experienced folks who will happily share what they know with others.

3. He brags that he will not respond to specific questions from certain people,
and will ignore questions he finds uncomfortable. Right, Treader, that's really admirable and mature.

4. Oh, and for around the 400th time, he shills his "Trail Institute" which generally consists of his selling his accumulated knowledge to Trail newcomers, as opposed to coming regularly to websites like this, and sharing that knowledge freely, which is what Whiteblaze's other 9,000 members do.

And lastly, DawnTreader, in reference to you saying that I'm not a person who "lo-pros" his contributions to the Trail, please show me anytime here on Whiteblaze, after several thousand posts, where I've felt a need to write a post like Mr. Doyle's above, advertising or highlighting my supposed contributions to either WB or to the Trail itself. Shoe me just one, OK?

It seems to me the only person who's felt the need to do that is your "low-pro" new friend.

warren doyle
11-23-2006, 21:10
Shades of Gray,
Yes. It is at the Lakeview Resort. More info on the CDH is on my website.

DawnTreader,
Beware, you might soon be given a 'brown nose' label.

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 21:13
Yeah, and it's fitting that you volunteered to provide it.

emerald
11-23-2006, 21:17
I watched a sharp-shinned hawk eat it's Thanksgiving Day dinner from my living room today. It didn't have turkey, however, but rather what appeared to be a small passerine.

emerald
11-23-2006, 21:30
You know, Warren, that damned Lobster never did answer your question or mine. Could have turned into an interesting thread. I guess he's just a thread-starter, sort of like one of those hikers who drop out at the first road crossing. Not sure he'll make it to Woody Gap on this one from the looks of things.:rolleyes: :-?

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 21:30
hey Jack wait a minute here..
This is not really about Warren at all. This is about your inconsiderate posting style towards one member of this site. Its almost like your trolling. I have a few problems with Warren and his philosophy, and it stems from a hiker I met on the trail this year. I don't feel the need to bring these issues up. Lets just say I don't agree with what he does AT ALL. However, he is a member of this site, and should be treated with a certain amount of respect, and does not, nor does anyone, deserve to be posted after, as you do, time and time and time again, in a non-helpful, condecending manner. So no, I am not a brown noser, just observating...
Jack,
"ON BEING A HOUSE GUEST"
Listen to your podcast lately?

DawnTreader
11-23-2006, 21:35
Again Jack,
That's "DawnTreader" or "DT" thank you have a nice day...

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 21:49
You don't feel the need to bring this up?

Gee, I guess that's why you initiated the subject yesterday and posted on it something like seven times today.

DawnTreader, I REALLY don't want to go into this more than is necessary because I really have better things to do.....my last word on the subject tonight is this:

From your age, I can only guess that you're a fairly recent arrival to the Long-Distance Hiking Community. If you knew some of the facts about Mr. Doyles' gross acts of rudeness and dis-respect of other hikers; his outrageous behavior at past hiker gatherings and get-togethers; his attempts to submarine and destroy a major effort to get hikers to behave more appropriately on the Trail; his repeatedly telling other hikers, especially new ones, how they can best avoid paying for fees and services along the Trail....if you knew the details on all of this, I don't think you'd be speaking so ardently on his behalf, nor would you calling out for others to "respect" an individual who has spent a great deal of hiking career showing gross dis-respect to both other hikers and to the Trail as well.

I appreciate your "observations" but with all due respect, there is a very great deal about this situation that you are probably unaware of.

If I show little regard for Mr. Doyle here or elsewhere, it is because I believe this is what is merited. Merely being a member of this site doesn't entitle anyone to anything but reading Internet posts.

When Mr. Doyle either starts acting more responsibly in the future, is willing to acknowledge errors in the past, and most of all, stops giving poor advice to those who'll be hiking in the years to come, then perhaps he'll have earned my respect.

And that'll do it for this evening. There are folks out there who have trouble believing this, but there are really other things I'd rather be doing right now than discussing the ridiculous issue of whether or not Warren Doyle commands or deserves my respect.

Frankly, I thought the issue had been resolved long ago, and it was HIS behavior over the years that resolved it.

smokymtnsteve
11-23-2006, 21:51
eithier that or a jilted lovers spat:-?

Crash! Bang!
11-23-2006, 22:46
i guess its a good thing bryson doesnt post here, eh?

Jack Tarlin
11-23-2006, 22:50
Actually, I wish he would. He's a fine writer, expresses himself well, can be very funny,and would probably have a lot of interesting things to say.

He's said VERY little about the A.T. in the past decade, and I for one would look forward to hearing his comments.

mdionne
11-23-2006, 22:56
i'm going to get some popcorn and wait for the next post!!!:)

Alligator
11-23-2006, 22:58
DawnTreader,

If you look at my posts (and threads I started), many of them are on topics that I am interested in or feel I have some knowledge on. They are:

1) Group/expedition travel on the AT
2) The philosophical/psychological aspects of long distance hiking
3) Long distance endurance hiking on the AT/LT
4) Rules and regulations
5) Day hiking the entire trail

I also started a thread for people to ask me any questions concerning AT thru-hike/section hike planning.

...Five of the sixteen threads you have started have been about the Appachian Trail Institute. (5/16)*100=31%. You have been a member for nearly 4 years, yet only have 490 posts. Now having been here nearly as long, I recognize your time here has not been without acrimony, but one has to wonder how much you are really interested in helping out here. Especially given that even when you do post, you almost never fail to troll somewhere in your posts. Let's be frank here Warren, you know you do it, I know you do it. You always aim to polarize. Personally I think it stems from your ego. If I'm wrong here speak up. Let's have a conversation about it and help to rehabilitate your reputation. You could be a much more dynamic, respected, and well-respected figure if you would just drop the ego and stopped picking some very silly arguments. ['cause deep down inside, you really want to be King of the AT anyway;) .]

ed bell
11-23-2006, 23:17
Hell, if anything needs to be hashed out why not do it in the middle of a lobster thread? Probably as good a thread as any, and the content won't ruin a perfectly good thread.:D

Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-23-2006, 23:21
i'm going to get some popcorn and wait for the next post!!!:)::: sits down next to mdionne and offers popcorn :::

lobster
11-23-2006, 23:22
Who will get in the last word, Jack or Warren?

ed bell
11-23-2006, 23:22
Considering I overlooked the fact that this thread is in the General Forum section I take back my previous post. Lobster's recent threads had been moved to the humor forum. I guess this one hasn't been shipped out yet.:D

DawnTreader
11-24-2006, 11:12
You don't feel the need to bring this up?

Gee, I guess that's why you initiated the subject yesterday and posted on it something like seven times today.

DawnTreader, I REALLY don't want to go into this more than is necessary because I really have better things to do.....my last word on the subject tonight is this:

From your age, I can only guess that you're a fairly recent arrival to the Long-Distance Hiking Community. If you knew some of the facts about Mr. Doyles' gross acts of rudeness and dis-respect of other hikers; his outrageous behavior at past hiker gatherings and get-togethers; his attempts to submarine and destroy a major effort to get hikers to behave more appropriately on the Trail; his repeatedly telling other hikers, especially new ones, how they can best avoid paying for fees and services along the Trail....if you knew the details on all of this, I don't think you'd be speaking so ardently on his behalf, nor would you calling out for others to "respect" an individual who has spent a great deal of hiking career showing gross dis-respect to both other hikers and to the Trail as well.

I appreciate your "observations" but with all due respect, there is a very great deal about this situation that you are probably unaware of.

If I show little regard for Mr. Doyle here or elsewhere, it is because I believe this is what is merited. Merely being a member of this site doesn't entitle anyone to anything but reading Internet posts.

When Mr. Doyle either starts acting more responsibly in the future, is willing to acknowledge errors in the past, and most of all, stops giving poor advice to those who'll be hiking in the years to come, then perhaps he'll have earned my respect.

And that'll do it for this evening. There are folks out there who have trouble believing this, but there are really other things I'd rather be doing right now than discussing the ridiculous issue of whether or not Warren Doyle commands or deserves my respect.

Frankly, I thought the issue had been resolved long ago, and it was HIS behavior over the years that resolved it.

Jack,
1st off.. I apologize for being an instigator last night, bad form on my part, sometimes I just keep going and going and going... I know about Warren and his antics, and was just trying to stir the pot a bit, mostly because it bothers you so much. So I was bored, sue me. I am not as you say, "speaking ardently on his behalf," I thought I made that clear yesterday. I have seen Warren's trail advice in action through another hiker, and the outcome was not good, so we are in some agreement here, however, I still don't understand why you always feel the need to put Warren in his place everytime he posts. enough on this topic. I am fairly new to the LDHC and just want to say how much I love it, and the useful info gained on this site has been invaluable, not to mention the entertainment value. Aight Peace..DT

Crash! Bang!
11-24-2006, 12:25
[quote=Jack Tarlin;275944]Actually, I wish he would. He's a fine writer, expresses himself well, can be very funny,and would probably have a lot of interesting things to say. quote]

but he's still a candy-ass, right?

:-?

Crash! Bang!
11-24-2006, 12:26
well i guess my html skills are evident

SGT Rock
11-24-2006, 12:45
Moved to humor.

Dang. Relax y'all.

emerald
11-24-2006, 13:12
Who will get in the last word, Jack or Warren?

This thread could surely surpass MinnesotaSmith Update, were it not for the fact that Jack and Warren are busy people who do not have the time to devote to it.;) :)

Lobster, I suggest you inquire about hydration systems in the gear forum and do extensive trials before undertaking your proposed hike, especially if it is your intention to hike the ENTIRE A.T.:rolleyes:

emerald
11-24-2006, 13:42
but he's still a candy-ass, right?

:-?

No, Crash! Bang! The Cadbury Bunny's a candy-ass!:D

LostInSpace
11-24-2006, 13:58
A lobster hiking the AT? Is there such a thing as a "land lobster?" Who would have thought: Dryococelus australis (Land Lobster) (http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/D/Dryococelus_australis.asp). It’s actually an insect, supposedly endangered. Did one escape to CA?

emerald
11-24-2006, 14:18
A lobster hiking the AT? Is there such a thing as a "land lobster?"

I'd never heard of a land lobster before visiting whiteblaze.net, although I've heard of a land shark posing as a candyman.;)

warren doyle
11-24-2006, 15:21
A hike off (but not til death - how about two weeks)?

No contest.

Biloxi
11-24-2006, 15:45
2 weeks???? now jack takes longer walks then that to get smokes:D

ed bell
11-24-2006, 15:45
Why not have a troll-off. Most inflammitory post wins.:D Seems like it's already been started.:rolleyes:

Jack Tarlin
11-25-2006, 00:15
I can't believe this consumate assshat.

Sorry, Tootise.

Not interested in two week hikes right now, maybe I'll slow down when I'm your age; also not interested in day hiking; or going from road to road carrying a Nalgene bottle and a tangerine; dashing off to make sure I don't miss the rendezvous with my car and driver. Nope. Not my style, never has been.

I usually go out for longer, and this includes camping in the woods, and I usually carry a full pack, usually 45 to 55 pounds.

Or more. Lots more.

Would love to see how you'd do with a 75 pound pack for ten days at a time with no car support in sight.

See, I don't travel with a van, Kewpie, and my gear isn't packed in a milk crate in the back of a truck, and I really don't enjoy sleeping a couple hundred yards from my support car. See, I really like hiking with a pack, camping miles from roads, on top of mountains, away from towns, and not having my very life depending on a paid driver. I actually ENJOY doing this.
I know it's hard to believe, but there are some folks who actually look forward to living like this when they're hiking on the A.T.

Thing is, Warren, belive it or not, some folks are still into the long-distance backpacking thing, and do it for, like, 175 days at a time, without a car.

With a backpack.

Novel concept, I know, but you should try it some time, while you still can.

And the next time, here or anywhere else, you feel the compelling need to brag about your mileage, the number of your thru-hikes, completed hikes, section hikes, or anything else, you might wanna be a little more forthcoming and honest for just once in your life, and tell people how much of this came about thanks to a support vehicle, and not through your own effforts as as a long-distance backpacker.

Flat out question: You like to brag about your Trail mileage. You're the ONLY well-known A.T. hiker who brags of this, records your accumulated mileage in Trail registers, etc.

How much of this was car supported. eh?

One third?

More?

Half?

It's about time you flat out told us exactly how often you've been car dependent.

Til then, go challenge someone else if you wanna recover your lost youth.

Two week challenge, indeed!

Without a support vehicle and if you had to carry a real backpack you'd be cat meat in around three days.

'Bye, now. Gotta go.

I have some correspondence yet remaining this evening with actual backpackers.

SGT Rock
11-25-2006, 00:51
Dang, I thought I asked y'all to play nice.

Comeon Jack, Warren hasn't brought up any of that stuff on here, seems like you are. Relax man. :cool:

Remember what I said to you a few months back ;)

Sit back, be mellow :sun:

ed bell
11-25-2006, 01:01
Dang, I thought I asked y'all to play nice.

Comeon Jack, Warren hasn't brought up any of that stuff on here, seems like you are. Relax man. :cool:

Remember what I said to you a few months back ;)

Sit back, be mellow :sun:
If the good SGT can say this from where his ass is a sittin, then I'd be inclined to go with the flow.:sun

warren doyle
11-25-2006, 01:53
Backpacking south from Grafton Notch for two weeks without vehicle support in late July/early August sounds good to me!
Meow. Meow.

ed bell
11-25-2006, 02:10
I was hoping that my "troll-off" remarks would be regarded as a joke. Guess not.:rolleyes: It's only hiking after all.:o

emerald
11-25-2006, 11:11
I usually carry a full pack, usually 45 to 55 pounds.

Or more. Lots more.

Would love to see how you'd do with a 75 pound pack for ten days at a time with no car support in sight.

Thing is, Warren, believe it or not, some folks are still into the long-distance backpacking thing, and do it for, like, 175 days at a time, without a car.

With a backpack.

Novel concept, I know, but you should try it some time, while you still can.

I like the idea of day-hiking inn-to-inn and taking showers! A departed BMECC member once told me he backpacked at one time, but, when he got older, he got smarter!:D

Warren got smart early in life.:rolleyes: :)

Crash! Bang!
11-25-2006, 12:07
is it just me, or does jack have something against warren?

;-)

i remember hearing about doyle signing shelter registers "warren doyle- trail legend" and thinking "what a tool". based on what ive seen here, ive mixed feelings. he hasnt risen to baltimores baiting, which is good, but he never responded to a pm i sent him, saying that his son seemed like a nice kid, which seems kinda snotty to not at least write back and say thanks.

jack, in person, seems like an extremely likeable, affable, nice (if opinionated) guy. always helping out. on here, well.......hes just opinionated (and sometimes helpful)

Crash! Bang!
11-25-2006, 12:12
nah, jack is often helpful. the battles and outbursts tend to overshadow the other stuff, however

Stonewall
11-25-2006, 13:58
is it just me, or does jack have something against warren?

;-)

i remember hearing about doyle signing shelter registers "warren doyle- trail legend" and thinking "what a tool". based on what ive seen here, ive mixed feelings. he hasnt risen to baltimores baiting, which is good, but he never responded to a pm i sent him, saying that his son seemed like a nice kid, which seems kinda snotty to not at least write back and say thanks.

jack, in person, seems like an extremely likeable, affable, nice (if opinionated) guy. always helping out. on here, well.......hes just opinionated (and sometimes helpful)


nah, jack is often helpful. the battles and outbursts tend to overshadow the other stuff, however

You having a debate with yourself?:D

Mags
11-25-2006, 15:31
i'm going to get some popcorn and wait for the next post!!!:)


Hey..I was thinking turkey leftovers myself. mmmm...turkey, stuffing AND Internet er...discussion!

Mags
11-25-2006, 15:38
re: a hike off!

I went "hiking" to the high point of RI today. I drove up there with a good friend (support team?). We did it without food or water..but Idid carry a camera and my phone! Had to walk *AT LEAST* five minutes round trip. Signed the register just to make sure I was a purist...

Later, we went out for breakfast.

WhaddaIWin?

:)

saimyoji
11-25-2006, 15:54
Pop...poppop....popopop....popopopopopopopopopopop opopopopo...poppop........pop.....pop.....

Crash! Bang!
11-25-2006, 16:10
You having a debate with yourself?:D

yes i am

no im not

Jack Tarlin
11-25-2006, 17:53
Hey Rock, you're right, it's not worth the trouble, and I regret you had to write, but it was, after all, Warren that brought up the idea not once, but twice (Posts 17 and 70) of challenging me to some sort of half-assed hiking contest.

Anyway, HE was the one that brought this up, and not me, so I felt compelled to reply to him.

Bottom line is I don't view hiking as a competitive exercise, so the idea of a "hike-off" as he put it is kind of a turn-off.

The idea of competing against either the Trail or another hiker simply isn't something that holds much interest for me; at this point I don't feel I have anything to prove out there, and I certainly don't need to hold some sort contest with Warren or any other recreational walker.

And lastly, I treasure my time out there, and I prefer to spend as much of my time on the Trail with long-distance backpackers.

Enough said.

Internegator
11-25-2006, 18:24
A hike off (but not til death - how about two weeks)?

No contest.

A walk off? Like in Zoolander?

Internegator
11-25-2006, 18:28
Backpacking south from Grafton Notch for two weeks without vehicle support in late July/early August sounds good to me!
Meow. Meow.

Got a cat in your pocket?

I'd like to know the answer to Jack's question? How many of your miles are without vehicle support?

Snap crackle.

SalParadise
11-25-2006, 19:14
I hear people say Hike Your Own Hike so often, but I'm not sure anyone ever means it.

Lone Wolf
11-25-2006, 19:28
Hey Rock, you're right, it's not worth the trouble, and I regret you had to write, but it was, after all, Warren that brought up the idea not once, but twice (Posts 17 and 70) of challenging me to some sort of half-assed hiking contest.

Anyway, HE was the one that brought this up, and not me, so I felt compelled to reply to him.

Bottom line is I don't view hiking as a competitive exercise, so the idea of a "hike-off" as he put it is kind of a turn-off.

The idea of competing against either the Trail or another hiker simply isn't something that holds much interest for me; at this point I don't feel I have anything to prove out there, and I certainly don't need to hold some sort contest with Warren or any other recreational walker.

And lastly, I treasure my time out there, and I prefer to spend as much of my time on the Trail with long-distance backpackers.

Enough said.

But you continually knock HIS way of walking the AT. Let it go.

emerald
11-25-2006, 19:44
I hear people say Hike Your Own Hike so often, but I'm not sure anyone ever means it.

I believe many actually do.;)

Jack Tarlin
11-25-2006, 19:48
Actually, Wolf, you're quite mistaken.

It's not so much the method I object to....after all, on several other occasions here, when people have asked "Is slackpacking the Trail considered a thru-hike?" I've always maintained that it certainly is, in short, I've defended people, more than once, who've elected to hike the Trail with car support or without full packs.

So it's not the method I object to.

It's more the mis-representation involved. I think it's disingenuous and frankly, dishonest, for someone to repeatedly boast of their hikes or their accumulated Trail mileage without being forthright and honest about HOW those miles were achieved, and you know as well as I do do Wolf, than when most people think of thru-hiking, or discover that someone has thru-hiked, the image they have is that of a self-supported backpacker, i.e. it is NOT someone marching from road crossing to road crossing with a camera and water bottle.

So I don't continually knock the way Warren hikes, Wolf

To each their own.

What I don't mind remarking on, tho, is that he continually mis-represents what he's done, and avoids mentioning the car support or how much he relies on it, and this is not quite honest. To be plain, most people don't associate automobiles, drivers, or car support with the concept of thru-hiking a long-distance Trail, and in attempting to keep this part of his adventures hidden, the gentlemen you mention is simply not being honest. If someone is going to boast about how much they've hiked, even to the extraordinarily singular habit of posting one's total mileage in registers for readers to admire....well if one is going to do all this, it's more than a little cheesy NOT to mention that most of these adventures came about without the onerous burden of actually carrying one own's gear.

Lone Wolf
11-25-2006, 20:56
BS Jack. It's unhealthy. Let it go. Power to Warren!

Spock
11-25-2006, 21:02
Since this is a humor thread, it might be good to get humble and think about the ultimate trainers and super-hikers, the Tarahumara, an obscure tribe of Native Americans in northern Mexico.

In the 1990’s an enterprising young man who had traveled in northern Mexico interested a well-known running shoe maker in sponsoring Tarahumara Indians in mountain marathons. After all, he reasoned exquisitely, they are the strongest mountain runners in the world. What better way to advertise trail running shoes?
He recruited several Tarahumara with the promise of profits on the condition that they wear the sponsor’s shoes. This worked well for the first few miles. Then the Tarahumara shed the modern shoes and put on their tire-tread sandals. They took first, second and fifth in the race. The youngest Tarahumara was 35 years old and the oldest was 55. The latter took first place. The sponsor, understandably disappointed, lasted for one more race, then dropped the project because the Tarahumara could not be convinced to keep the shoes on. For their part, the Tarahumara did not see the amount of money they were expecting and quit in disgust and distrust. An unhappy time was had by all.
Of course, the Tarahumara continued to run, just not in yuppie mountain marathons. Running is a central thing in their culture. The other central thing is beer. They train on beer. Not watery pilsner this, nor even meaty stout, but Lord-God-Almighty pop-skull corn squeezins called tesguino that they brew in 55-gallon drums. They raise their own corn and other ingredients, but pack the necessary sugar over narrow foot trails through some of the most rugged country on earth over elevation changes of many thousands of feet. Their territory stretches from the artic-alpine Sierra Madre Occidental to the bottom of the Barranca del Cobre (Copper Canyon), a complex of five canyons, three of which are deeper then the Grand Canyon of Arizona. Tarahumara pueblos are separated by an average of 30 miles and are accessible only through the foot trails. The Tarahumara like to visit and do not like to waste time in travel, so they run. They do not jog. They run. Men, women and children.

Beer is a really good reason to go visiting. But someone has to brew it. And everyone is someone among the Tarahumara. They do not raise their own sugar, so someone has to go and get it. He travels as far as necessary to wherever sugar can be had. He will buy 60 or 70 kilos (around 150 pounds) of bagged sugar. These will be secured to a pack frame. The packer will begin a steady hop from side to side, first to one foot, then to the other until he has established a comfortable pendulum rhythm. Two loaders pick up the pack and match the packer’s movements, slowly bringing the pack to his back. He slips on the shoulder straps (traditionalists use a tumpline around the forehead) and gradually the loaders give him the total weight. He translates his side-to-side movement to a more forward pendulum pattern, and away he goes for 15 or 20 miles, up and down steep, narrow trails before one of the loaders, fresh from having run along without a load, takes the pack.

When the sugar reaches the pueblo, it goes into 55 gallon drums filled with cracked corn, special local ingredients and water that sit over fires. Each household and pueblo has its own recipe. The tesguino is boiled, cooled, inoculated with the proper yeast, covered with a cloth and left to ferment.

In the meanwhile, at another pueblo, the tesguino is almost ready for drinking. And when it is ready, it must be drunk. Runners carry the word. On a given day, the entire population of the guest pueblos will converge, at a run, on the host. The duty of the host is to have enough tesguino to knock everyone out. This is usually accomplished. And the next day, everyone runs home, a few dozen miles, up and down several thousand feet. With a hangover.

saimyoji
11-25-2006, 22:55
Hey Rock, you're right, it's not worth the trouble, and I regret you had to write, but it was, after all, Warren that brought up the idea not once, but twice (Posts 17 and 70) of challenging me to some sort of half-assed hiking contest.

Anyway, HE was the one that brought this up, and not me, so I felt compelled to reply to him.

Bottom line is I don't view hiking as a competitive exercise, so the idea of a "hike-off" as he put it is kind of a turn-off.

The idea of competing against either the Trail or another hiker simply isn't something that holds much interest for me; at this point I don't feel I have anything to prove out there, and I certainly don't need to hold some sort contest with Warren or any other recreational walker.

And lastly, I treasure my time out there, and I prefer to spend as much of my time on the Trail with long-distance backpackers.

Enough said.

Sounds like the playground again. "HE started it." :-? :D

warren doyle
11-27-2006, 22:23
Hello,

I have never signed my name 'Warren Doyle - Trail Legend' in any register, because I don't feel like one. It is a label that others have given me. So the 'tool' must be someone else.

Also, I am not snotty. You sent me a non-urgent, and kind, pm about my son on 11/22/06 at 11pm. Because you didn't get a response in 2.5 days, you assume I'm snotty?

The reality is this. Not everyone is attached to their computer every day. I am one of these people. The last five days was Thanksgiving break. I spent time on-dance floor, on-road (1,600 miles of driving), on-trail, and with family. So, I was not 'on-line' very much.

Happy trails!

Appalachian Tater
11-27-2006, 23:14
Hello,

I have never signed my name 'Warren Doyle - Trail Legend' in any register, because I don't feel like one. It is a label that others have given me. So the 'tool' must be someone else.

Also, I am not snotty. You sent me a non-urgent, and kind, pm about my son on 11/22/06 at 11pm. Because you didn't get a response in 2.5 days, you assume I'm snotty?

The reality is this. Not everyone is attached to their computer every day. I am one of these people. The last five days was Thanksgiving break. I spent time on-dance floor, on-road (1,600 miles of driving), on-trail, and with family. So, I was not 'on-line' very much.

Happy trails!

Sir, you are much too modest!

rickb
11-27-2006, 23:28
Warren is a Trail Legend.

My guess is that he has had as much of an impact and influence on others' lives as most anyone on this list-- with regards to helping others get know the AT and themselves, anyway.

And those who attend his class enjoy such an extrodinary completion rate.

Used to be that nonconformity was respected along Trail. Now its so paint by the numbers, how is it that anyone can find thier own flow?

Appalachian Tater
11-28-2006, 00:15
And those who attend his class enjoy such an extrodinary completion rate.



I would imagine that the type of people who would go to the trouble and expense of attending a class on thru-hiking would have a much higher completion rate than those who would not bother. This is not meant to disparage the class at all, just looks like self-selection to me.

Stonewall
11-28-2006, 00:39
Used to be that nonconformity was respected along Trail. Now its so paint by the numbers, how is it that anyone can find their own flow?

It just goes to show how our society is changing. Quite frankly I think it blows. Since we are in grade school we are told we have to know what we want to be when we grow up. We have to know our destination before we start our journey. In today’s society we are so f'n ridged than most normal folk can't do anything on their own. So in that sense they have Warrens class.

Now, I do not know much about his class so i can not make a judgment about it one way or another. I applaud him for thinking of creating a class to teach people to thru hike. But in the same sense, taken back to think it really sucks. Again I do not know how well his class is or if it is poor or even if it is popular or not.

I am not trying to start anything just taking a look around and noting of how our society is changing for better or worse. Unfortunately I feel for worse but who knows. Maybe we need permission to wipe our own arse.
in any case life is too short to always bitch and complain so :banana

saimyoji
11-28-2006, 03:22
It just goes to show how our society is changing. Quite frankly I think it blows. Since we are in grade school we are told we have to know what we want to be when we grow up. We have to know our destination before we start our journey. In today’s society we are so f'n ridged than most normal folk can't do anything on their own. So in that sense they have Warrens class.

Now, I do not know much about his class so i can not make a judgment about it one way or another. I applaud him for thinking of creating a class to teach people to thru hike. But in the same sense, taken back to think it really sucks. Again I do not know how well his class is or if it is poor or even if it is popular or not.

I am not trying to start anything just taking a look around and noting of how our society is changing for better or worse. Unfortunately I feel for worse but who knows. Maybe we need permission to wipe our own arse.
in any case life is too short to always bitch and complain so :banana


I agree. Its a pitiful society we live in where people cannot make use of the resources available to them to learn on their own, but feel the need (for other than physical limitation reasons) to pay someone to teach them to survive in the woods. Note this is not survive in the harsh wilderness, but merely the woods in the backyards of many landowners. There is no wilderness along the AT, only backwoods. That is, woods along the backs of people's properties.

HAGH. :D:banana:banana

Gray Blazer
11-28-2006, 08:51
Doesn't anyone have a comment about the Tarahumara? Sounds pretty cool to me. Hike and drink beer all day? Are you kidding? Doh!!

Lone Wolf
11-28-2006, 08:56
Doesn't anyone have a comment about the Tarahumara? Sounds pretty cool to me. Hike and drink beer all day? Are you kidding? Doh!!

They're a whole different breed of athlete. 4 of them came to Colorado one year to run the Hard Rock 100. They stopped at a dump to get tires so they could make sandals for the run. They all finished in the top ten.

warren doyle
11-28-2006, 08:57
You make a valid point. The people who attend the ATI are somewhat self-selected. This fact still does not account for the wide disparity in the completion rates of ATI graduates (75%) and non-ATI graduates (20-25%).

The ATI folks go on to do their own thru-hike under their own physical power fueled with four days of realistic and reflective preparation/information, which is one of the contributing factors to their success (i.e., completing what they set out to do). This process has been going on yearly since 1989.

One of the missions of an educator is to assist people in realizing their dreams by the sharing of pertinent knowledge and wisdom in an organized and clear way.

I'm looking forward to our upcoming ATI with several 2007 AT dreamers here at Lees-McRae College (Dec. 15-18).

Happy trails!

Jack Tarlin
11-28-2006, 15:25
I couldn't agree more with Mr. Doyle about the importance of education.

The best thing about Whiteblaze is that there are hundreds of folks here willing to help folks realize their dreams by sharing pertinent knowledge and wisdom in an organized and clear way.

Only difference, is that of the 10,000-odd folks who frequent Whiteblaze, I can think of only one whose mission is to sell this knowledge and wisdom at every opportunity rather than give it away for free.

Another poster recently pointed out that a third of the threads started here by Mr. Doyle are to sell his "Institute." This doesn't count the dozens of other times he's referenced it.

To repeatedly come to a site where material and information is dispensed freely in order to offer for sale the same sort of information is tacky, self-serving, and vulgar.

Incidentally, Mr. Doyle, have you supported this site in any way, shape, or form, or made a donation to the place where you post your ads for free?

Note to new folks or people planning their first long hike:

A thru-hike ain't rocket science. There are all sorts of folks out there willing to share what they've learned and what they know, and are happy to help you with your planning and preparations, and 99.9% of them are happy to do this for nothing but a smile.

Save your money for your hike.

Appalachian Tater
11-28-2006, 15:32
You make a valid point. The people who attend the ATI are somewhat self-selected. This fact still does not account for the wide disparity in the completion rates of ATI graduates (75%) and non-ATI graduates (20-25%).


Do 75% of the people who take your class complete a thru-hike or do 75% of the people who take your class who attempt a thru-hike complete it? If the latter, what percentage of the people who take your class attempt a thru-hike?

How many people are we talking about?

Also, how much of the success rate do you attribute to self-selection and how much to your class? How did you control for self-selection when analyzing the success rate?

Lone Wolf
11-28-2006, 15:33
You seem to be the only one upset about his Institute.:)

max patch
11-28-2006, 15:33
Thats not entirely fair, Jack.

Mr. Doyle has freely and openly educated us on how to eat free at restaurants, see as many movies as you want for the price of a single ticket, and how to avoid those annoying user fees.

Appalachian Tater
11-28-2006, 16:00
Thats not entirely fair, Jack.

Mr. Doyle has freely and openly educated us on how to eat free at restaurants, see as many movies as you want for the price of a single ticket, and how to avoid those annoying user fees.

Are there restaurants that let thru-hikers eat free? There was one in Hanover that apparently gave thru-hikers a slice of pizza but that was the only one I heard about.

Appalachian Tater
11-28-2006, 16:06
Oh. I found the old posts. That's disgusting.

It's also stealing. If I were a waiter and someone did that, I would call the police and have them arrested, it's no different from shoplifting. Once it goes in the garbage can outside it may be fair game, but not while it's on a table. Really it's no different than going in to a buffet, eating, and then sneaking out without paying.

Watching more than one movie on one ticket is stealing, too.

Doing things like that causes people to dislike hikers and for good cause.

Jack Tarlin
11-28-2006, 17:08
Tater:

Thank you for providing another perspective. Some of us have been making these points for quite some time; Wolf is under the impression that that the only person who comments on this, or is bothered by this, is me.

He is, of course, mistaken.

Fact is, there are some well-known hikers whose idea of "educating" and advising new folks is highly suspect, and there is nothing at all wrong with pointing this out, as often as is necessary.

Spock
11-28-2006, 17:15
Gray Blazer,
Well, bringing up the Tarahumara was worth a try. Obviously, we walked into a hot zone and the participants are too het up about their shtick to stay on the subject. Maybe they ought to arrange a duel somewhere.

Jack Tarlin
11-28-2006, 17:46
Or maybe your Tarhumara post was long, rambling, and of little interest to most people.

Don't be so sensitive.

Stonewall
11-29-2006, 01:24
Or maybe your Tarhumara post was long, rambling, and of little interest to most people.

Don't be so sensitive.

I would kind of have to agree with Jack about your Tarhumara post while I did find it an enjoyable read there wasn't much to comment on. :)

Gray Blazer
11-29-2006, 08:48
Or maybe your Tarhumara post was long, rambling, and of little interest to most people.

Don't be so sensitive.
???????????

Gray Blazer
11-29-2006, 11:40
This thread is in the wrong forum. It started off humorous but then quickly entered the I'm an @$$hat forum.

Jack Tarlin
11-29-2006, 13:10
Speak for Yourself! :D

Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-29-2006, 13:38
I commented to Spock privately about his post which I found interesting. I didn't feel this thread was the place to discuss the group further.

Grey Blazer, the @$$hat forum is called sensitive issues or something like that. I'm thinking this thread belongs in the pi$$ing contest forum.

Gray Blazer
11-29-2006, 13:42
Speak for Yourself! :DI was. (must have 10 letters or characters)

warren doyle
12-09-2006, 16:14
"Mr. Doyle has freely and openly educated us on how to eat free at restaurants, see as many movies as you want for the price of a single ticket, and how to avoid those annoying user fees."

Mr. Max Patch,

A correction to your above quote is in order here.

I have never educated people to eat free in restaurants. I have shared my experiences with eating the 'leftover menu' in non-AYCE dining establishments only while I'm on a section/thru-hike.
First, I always order and pay for a full meal first. Then, since I usually need more calories than a full meal has to offer, I avail myself of leftovers if the opportunity arises. The only ethical question I ask before acquiring food in such a manner is: "Is this food going to go directly to the maggots or is it going to go through me first?" This deep philisophical question is relatively easy to answer and act upon since my Darwinian instinct of self-preservation takes over.

It is obvious that this sort of behavior runs counter to the socialization process of most members of our American society.

Happy leftovers!

Jack Tarlin
12-09-2006, 16:44
The usual chorus will surely chime in, accusing me of having some sort of obsession or vendetta in regards to Mr. Doyle, but I'll risk it.

As long as he keeps coming to this website saying foolish things, or giving lousy advice, or advocating behavior that is bad for the Trail community, well, I'm going to respond to it. Somebody has to.

There is no such thing as a "leftover menu".

I don't care whether one asks first, or one inquires if there's unwanted food, or if one is scrounging un-eaten food off of tables.

I'm not sure of the details on how Mr. Doyle obtains food off his "left-over meal" and I really don't care.

This sort of scrounging is nothing more than begging or panhandling, and I don't care, i.e. it doesn't matter if one has already bought and paid for something. One goes into a restaurant to purchase a meal, period. One doesn't go in to beg, whine, mooch, or steal food, and the fact that this
food might end up in the garbage is irrelevant. When a hiker goes into a restaurant and behaves like this, all it does is re-inforce the notion---which exists in enough minds already---that hikers are shiftless beggars. And it is THIS perception that makes people, businesses, and sometimes, whole communities unfriendly towards hikers; ANY behavior that helps reinforce this notion is not behavior that is beneficial to the Trail community or to other hikers.

And hikers that persist in behaving this way are nothing but selfish.

And lastly, Mr. Doyle's comment about how his behavior runs counter to the way most folks behave in civilized society is 100% correct: Most folks don't beg, mooch, panhandle, scrounge, or steal. Most folks realize this sort of behavior is unacceptable.

As he approaches his sixth decade, it is to be hoped that someday, Mr. Doyle realizes this as well.

Burn
12-09-2006, 17:03
one of the best trail magic sources on trail is the magic you create yerself within yer own trail community of the given year you hike.


I left the trail due to many reasons, but the major one was....i could no longer fund my hike the way i wanted to hike. I often feed several folks on trail, carrying in extremely heavy and heavenly meals to share with whoever came along. We did lasagna and pizzas on trail and i would do it again, even if i didn't get to where i originally got to where i set off for.


also, if you smoke, buy yer own.

Lone Wolf
12-09-2006, 17:23
I still eat from the "leftover menu". Me and Warren have a lot in common.:)

emerald
12-09-2006, 18:52
Once it goes in the garbage can outside it may be fair game, but not while it's on a table. Really it's no different than going in to a buffet, eating, and then sneaking out without paying.

So just what are you advocating -- dumpster-diving? That will do a great deal to promote a better image of thru-hikers on the part of citizens in trail communities as well as better health of thru-hikers themselves!:D :D Oh, and BTW the 2 things you mentioned are different!:D :D Note the green emoticons -- 2 in each place, 4 total!

Lone Wolf
12-09-2006, 21:33
It's pretty simple kids. You waltz into a busy diner and sit down to the only available booth, there's a buncha fries, some rolls, half a burger, etc. just layin' there. What you gonna do? I'm eatin'.:D

emerald
12-09-2006, 22:42
It's pretty simple kids. You waltz into a busy diner and sit down to the only available booth, there's a buncha fries, some rolls, half a burger, etc. just layin' there. What you gonna do? I'm eatin'.:D

I'd give a cursory glance to see who's looking, but if I'm on a quest for calories and Katahdin is calling, those fries aren't going in the dumpster! Hikers are hungry people. Waste not, want not!:D

rickb
12-09-2006, 23:00
Just so long as you leave all but 2 packs of sugar alone...

And don't care what that trucker was handling before puting his hands into those fries.

emerald
12-09-2006, 23:03
And don't care what that trucker was handling before puting his hands into those fries.

His mother taught him to wash his hands before eating just like yours did.:rolleyes:

Squeaky 2
12-11-2006, 12:37
ok L.Wolf, Nean is in charge of the food next year!!!