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Newb
11-22-2006, 09:00
I found this blurb (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--connecticutenterp1121nov21,0,3014827.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut)in the news today...I found it amusing. It rolling on a "local wire" for Connecticut, but is in Virginia? Anyways...I wish I'd gone to a college with courses like this:

"CATAWBA, Va. _ April Lucas slings a nylon bag holding a sleeping bag over her shoulder, hoping it will balance satchels carrying leftover pizza, clothes and gear for a night in the woods. A dozen or so companions look more ready for the trek to a primitive campsite, with tents and equipment hanging off backpack frames. But except for the leaders, this is a group of hiking novices who know each other mostly through Internet chats. They're taking a high-tech college course exploring a low-tech subject: the Appalachian Trail. The offering by Bluefield and Ferrum colleges is billed as "online and on foot." By Sue Lindsey. "

Doctari
11-22-2006, 09:19
I think that I met one of their classes when on the trail in 97. Saw them just N of Gooch Gap, to just past Neil's gap.

I seem to remember there being 3 instructors & about 15 Students. They were having a great time.


Doctari.

BlackCloud
11-22-2006, 09:28
What a joke. Get a real major.....

MOWGLI
11-22-2006, 09:37
What a joke. Get a real major.....

It's a "course", not a "major." You should have stayed in school Blackcloud!

Sly
11-22-2006, 09:39
It's a "course", not a "major." You should have stayed in school Blackcloud!

LOL... beat me to it!

fiddlehead
11-22-2006, 09:41
Imagine that! And I wonder how much they pay for those college credits.

Sly
11-22-2006, 09:47
Imagine that! And I wonder how much they pay for those college credits.

I don't know but it reminds of the groups I saw in Glacier and the Winds. The first with a backcountry outfitter/guide and the other with NOLS. Some of the NOLS courses cost as much as a semester at college.

MacGyver2005
11-22-2006, 09:58
Imagine that! And I wonder how much they pay for those college credits.

A pretty penny...but unfortunately all colleges require some degree of "core" courses, most (if not all) of which are of no use to your major. I'll tell you that there were several courses that I had to take that I gained nothing from, mostly because I had learned more on the subject in high school. If I would have had the option to switch one of those courses with one about the AT, I would not have hesitated.

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME 2005

peter_pan
11-22-2006, 10:04
So no one here had to take basket weaving or pottery to graduate.... I sure did.... they are normally offered under the Arts....

This looks like more fun...

Pan

MOWGLI
11-22-2006, 10:11
Imagine that! And I wonder how much they pay for those college credits.

Two of the best courses I ever took were similar field courses. One was Natural History of the Catskills. We went up to Frost Valley YMCA (http://www.frostvalley.org/) in January after a 36" snow. We studies birds, small mammals, the climate of the Catskills, a bit of geology, and that weekend I learned to snowshoe and cross country ski.

The other course was Natural History of Cape Cod. We studies coastal geology, birds, and marine mammals. We arrived immediately after a stranding of White-Sided Dolphins (http://terrapindiary.org/lewis02/03-16-02.htm), and got to see and learn about that incident.

In todays day & age of obesity, anytime you can instill a love for the outdoors, and encourage students to hike and be physically active - that's a good thing. It just might end up saving their life - unlike any math class that they'll ever take.

Tha Wookie
11-22-2006, 10:20
I would argue that backpacking and even basketweaving (ancient pre-ceramic art) are MORE important than most typical college core courses.

They teach more than modern trends- they expose students to lifeways that have existed for tens of thousands of years, and are still useful today.

While many modern courses are but trends in society, backpacking and basketweaving (often marginalized as non-economic "off-work" activities, which reflects a short value trend in the human timeline) are actually skills that have been and always will be useful skills in providing, understanding, and continuing the legacy of life outside of the economic gamut (although top-end basket-weavers do make some money if you've ever seen in Sante Fe).

There certainly is a balance to be struck between economicly-driven science-based classes, history, language, and leisure arts.

But don't take my word for it. Here are some course evaluations of the backpacking course I taught at the University of Georgia, if I may toot my own horn for a point. Have you EVER heard such enthusiastic response from a core requirement (they had to choose 1 PE):



"...Getting to go to Springer, have lunch by a waterfall, and gather around the fire with the through hikers at night was amazing. I felt safe and prepared, which I think made the trip more enjoyable. Nate was approachable and understanding, he was willing to listen to any questions we had. Great class-thank you!"

"Thank you for this experience, it was the first experience I've ever had with backpacking and it was so much more than I expected."

"This class was great- one of the best I've taken in four years. Nate, however, made the class what it was. I appreciate his energy and honest belief in the subject matter. I think I took a lot from the class, about backpacking, and more."

"I really enjoyed this class! Nate did a wonderful job introducing us to the world of hiking and sparked an interest for me in pursuing longer & more challenging hikes. Nate's experience on the subject was of great benefit on our trip, and he took the subject matter of the class to broader and better levels. I would whole-heartedly recommend the class and will take what I have learned here on future endeavors."

"Great course"

"One of the best teachers I have had. Motivated me to plan and hike more outdoors. Taught awesome ideas in order to save money and weight on gear."

"FUN TIMES!"

"... Really made me want to get into backpacking and gave me a greater appreciation of nature."

Kevin A. Boyce
11-22-2006, 10:39
Plus some colleges, the local community one here in Dutchess County has (or at least used to have) a PE class for hiking/backpacking... You had to take two 1/2 semester PE classes there, they were everything from archery and bowling to tennis... I took cycling... One of the best classes I took in college was a history of the city of New York class... A few field trips, lots of papers, but I still use those texts that we had to get for reference.

Kind of cool that there is an Appalachian Trail class... I wish that there were more 'localized' classes for students to take at their local colleges, it may let them learn to have a more local stake in the school instead of a place to go to for a few years and then more on. I think that it is a trend that is starting to develop....

Doctari
11-22-2006, 12:15
I just went to both schools course guides on line, I can't find any mention of it. Anyone else find anything?

I do THINK that the class I talked to was from Ferrum, I'm about 90% sure.

They were on a multi day (week? multi week? I don't remember.) hike, as opposed to a one day field trip.


Doctari.

Oddjob
11-22-2006, 13:23
Here is a link on the topic:
http://bcweb.bluefield.edu/appalachiantrail/index.php


my local SUNY College offers Expeditionary Studies as a major. The webpages says you will focus in one of the following areas, Sea Kayaking, Backcountry or Climbing. The degree focused more on guiding expeditions, outdoor saftey, etc. Its listed as a Bachelor of Science.

If i had to do it all over.....

DawnTreader
11-22-2006, 13:30
I just finished my bowling class at local university. . would much rather have had the AT course option

fiddlehead
11-22-2006, 14:15
I guess it's a good thing. Obviously most of you think so. My point is that if someone wants to learn about backpacking on the AT, it would be a better idea to just go out and do it, rather than pay whatever it is for a college credit or 3 in these times. I guess people are generally lazy and it's easier to take a course while you're going to university than it is to go out backpacking for a week or so.
Yeah, NOLS is wicked expensive too. That's why i say: Go figure? I guess people pay the money.
How many thru hiking days would YOU get out of the price of a NOLS or university course?

Two Speed
11-22-2006, 14:18
I guess it's a good thing. . . All fair points, but if a PE class is required and I had to shell out anyway, you bet your stinky ol' hikin' socks I'd take the class.

MOWGLI
11-22-2006, 14:20
Here is a link on the topic:
http://bcweb.bluefield.edu/appalachiantrail/index.php


my local SUNY College offers Expeditionary Studies as a major. The webpages says you will focus in one of the following areas, Sea Kayaking, Backcountry or Climbing. The degree focused more on guiding expeditions, outdoor saftey, etc. Its listed as a Bachelor of Science.

If i had to do it all over.....

SUNY Empire State College (where I graduated) uses SUNY Cortland's facility on Raquette Lake (http://www.greatcamps.com/tour.htm) in the Adirondacks to do outdoor programs. It's a great facility. In fact, it's one of the original great camps in the Adirondacks owned by Durant.

BlackCloud
11-22-2006, 15:27
Take a real class.

Take your formal, structured, for-pay education seriously and take real classes.

It's still a joke.:eek:

halftime
11-22-2006, 15:53
Take a real class.

Take your formal, structured, for-pay education seriously and take real classes.

It's still a joke.:eek:

What could be more realistic than chosing an elective that you enjoy and want to learn more about? Especially since (in Science and Engineering fields) only 2/3 follow a career path related to their degree anyway.

RadioFreq
11-22-2006, 16:17
Now if they could just find a way to offer the AT hiking course on line. :rolleyes:

fishinfred
11-22-2006, 16:45
ASU in Boon has a course on Trail Maintenance and there have been over 800 + working hrs of trail maintenance done by them (last I heard) .

I think that is AWSOME! What better way to learn about and gain respect for the Trail and the Volunteers who do the work on it!

I don't know if there is a link or not ,perhaps someone else can provide additional info on this deal????

A couple hikers/maintainers Otto and Crispy are involved with it I believe. Good thing tho... IMO .
PEACE!
FF

Jack Tarlin
11-22-2006, 17:06
RadioFreq:

An A.T. course already does effectively exist on line.

It's called Whiteblaze.net

And it's free. You don't have to apply to a college, sit in on weekend classes, pay tuition to any school or "Institute", or do any homework.

There's an extraordinary ammount of good information here, and an awful lot of very qualified people exchanging and relating it, at no cost.

The "A.T. course" you speak of is right here.

Best of luck with your hike in 2010!!

LostInSpace
11-22-2006, 17:10
RadioFreq:

An A.T. course already does effectively exist on line.

It's called Whiteblaze.net


Along with some occasionally disruptive students. :D

Frosty
11-22-2006, 17:32
A pretty penny...but unfortunately all colleges require some degree of "core" courses, most (if not all) of which are of no use to your major. I'll tell you that there were several courses that I had to take that I gained nothing from, mostly because I had learned more on the subject in high school. If I would have had the option to switch one of those courses with one about the AT, I would not have hesitated.Ditto. I took a bunch of worthless liberal arts electives (can't have engineering students taking too many math and science courses, now can we) that I would gladly have traded for an AT course, or any hiking/outdoors course, or anything of interest, for that matter.

jmaclennan
11-22-2006, 19:25
wookie, props for getting such a good response from your students. sounds a little like what Mowgli was talking about. getting otherwise involved folks interested in the woods. nice work.

i also always wondered why they offer those cheesy p.e. courses. i took bowling. i think an AT class is great, although of course you can get it on your own. a guy named Kip Redick has been doing this for some time out of a college in VA (can't recall the name right now). they go for a multi-week hike. wish i could get paid for that.

Stonewall
11-22-2006, 19:46
Take a real class.

Take your formal, structured, for-pay education seriously and take real classes.

It's still a joke.:eek:


I'm Sorry what do you define as a real class?

RadioFreq
11-22-2006, 20:24
RadioFreq:

An A.T. course already does effectively exist on line.

It's called Whiteblaze.net

And it's free. You don't have to apply to a college, sit in on weekend classes, pay tuition to any school or "Institute", or do any homework.

There's an extraordinary ammount of good information here, and an awful lot of very qualified people exchanging and relating it, at no cost.

The "A.T. course" you speak of is right here.

Best of luck with your hike in 2010!!

Hey, you're right! :-? But where does one go to get one's "sheepskin"?

(And please don't suggest the "Help With Some Math" thread.) :eek:

Blissful
11-22-2006, 20:31
Wish I had this rather than taking badminton / archery when I was in college for my required phys ed elective.

MacGyver2005
11-22-2006, 21:52
Ditto. I took a bunch of worthless liberal arts electives (can't have engineering students taking too many math and science courses, now can we) that I would gladly have traded for an AT course, or any hiking/outdoors course, or anything of interest, for that matter.

You're an engineer as well? That's pretty cool. Shoot me a PM or email, I'd love to hear the perspective of an individual that is on the opposite end of an engineering career from me!

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME

The Solemates
11-23-2006, 09:33
I'd have to agree. It is a joke. But if someone can structure the classes and have people pay money for them, and get the college to accept it as a class, I say good for them. That's what America is all about. Reminds me of someone...WD. Then again, I think everyone knows that you get what you pay for when those students enter the workforce....then those backpacking classes are not recognized, and count for nothing but having a good time. Backpacking is recreation.

The Solemates
11-23-2006, 09:36
Ditto. I took a bunch of worthless liberal arts electives (can't have engineering students taking too many math and science courses, now can we) that I would gladly have traded for an AT course, or any hiking/outdoors course, or anything of interest, for that matter.

Disagree completely. I think the relatively few liberal arts electives I had to take back in undergrad helped round out my engineering education, and were often a nice break from my "real" classes.

BlackCloud
11-23-2006, 19:07
What could be more realistic than chosing an elective that you enjoy and want to learn more about? Especially since (in Science and Engineering fields) only 2/3 follow a career path related to their degree anyway.

Are you in college to have a good time or are you there to develop knowledge to be utilized for your career?

So since so few college grads actually follow their career paths, why not fill your curriculum with irrelevant classes that you enjoy?

If I am interviewing someone for a job and I see more then one useless class on their transcript it tells me that they don't have their priorities in line & they're out.

BlackCloud
11-23-2006, 19:16
I'm Sorry what do you define as a real class?

Real classes of value would include:

Math
Literature
Science
Government
Engineering
Business
Medcine
Law
Philosophy
Military
I'm sure there are some more, but most everything can fall under one of these categories.

Bogus classes that are educatonally irrelevant to a professional career:

Sports (to include hiking)
Talking about our feelings
Anything else that could be considered "play"

HikerGuyTom
11-24-2006, 09:42
Blackcloud,
They didn't have requirements called "electives" where you graduated college?

Physical Education was one of mine...

BlackCloud
11-24-2006, 11:20
Blackcloud,
They didn't have requirements called "electives" where you graduated college?

Physical Education was one of mine...

If you want to become a PE teacher I can see some use. What was taught in this class? Or was it just playing sports?

Mammoth
11-24-2006, 12:11
At the Univ. of Minnesota, you have to pay by semester, which is 13 credits. Anything over 13 credits is free. That's when a lot of students take PE classes, like backpacking, at least here. I only need 70 credits for my major, but a total of 120 credits to graduate. Even with a minor, there are still a bunch of credits to make up. I don't see a problem with taking an enjoyable class, especially if it's free. Maybe this doesn't hold for the college offering the AT course; but here, there is no stigma associated with taking a PE class, especially when it's free anyway.

Stonewall
11-24-2006, 12:58
Real classes of value would include:

Math
Literature
Science
Government
Engineering
Business
Medcine
Law
Philosophy
Military
I'm sure there are some more, but most everything can fall under one of these categories.

Bogus classes that are educatonally irrelevant to a professional career:

Sports (to include hiking)
Talking about our feelings
Anything else that could be considered "play"

Hmm I guess my whole college career in Art was play, glassblowing, sculpture, stain glass, woodworking, and ceramics plus a bunch of other classes that I didn’t need to talk but though that they would help me better my self.

I guess now that I am going out for my Adventure recreation bachelors that is all going to be playing as well since that consist of backpacking, skiing, climbing, kayaking ... etc.



If I am interviewing someone for a job and I see more then one useless class on their transcript it tells me that they don't have their priorities in line & they're out.

How can you judge some one for the classes that they take. No education is wasted whether you agree or disagree it. The knowledge that you pull from the classes that you take whether relevant or irrelevant help you shape who you are. If the person took the class obliviously they did not think it was useless. It is people like yourself that make it hard for people to get jobs that do not have a degree but have the experience. A degree is just a piece of paper and the classes that you take are only as good as the information that you pull out of it.

There is no way in hell that I want to be stuck behind a desk 9-5 every day for the next 60 years and from what I read about your "real" classes that is what you think people should do.

Dancer
11-24-2006, 13:04
When I was in college I had to take stupid phys-ed classes like walking for health and bowling. I would have jumped at an AT course.

halftime
11-24-2006, 13:11
Are you in college to have a good time or are you there to develop knowledge to be utilized for your career?.

hopefuly both!


If I am interviewing someone for a job and I see more then one useless class on their transcript it tells me that they don't have their priorities in line & they're out.

In my 30+ years in the business world, I have found that individuals who have completed the exhaustive process of getting an acredited degree usually have their priorities straight. The fact that some explore diverse opportunities and demonstrate an adventurous spirit has generally turned out to ba a plus.

For what it's worth: If I were in position to do so, would be extremely hesitant to appoint a person with the attitude you express here to a position that involves any Human Resource decisions.
May your days ahead be brighter than before!:sun

SGT Rock
11-24-2006, 13:15
For the record. When I stared up college again in 2005 they gave me a bunch of credit to cover those sort of classes - map reading, outdoor liviing praticum, physical fitness, first aid training, etc for my Army training. Lets me skip taking basket weaving and such. Also, since I decided to change my major and seek out a job with the National Park Service after I retire - they are actually going to be needed skills for civilian employment. SWEET! :D

Anyway, I think that if I had not gone in the Military, and my college would have required some sort of electives, that these sorts of things would have had my interest a hell of a lot more than some of the other things you can take in college. Wooke has it right - at least for people like me.

BlackCloud
11-24-2006, 15:28
And this is why America is headed downhill.

While peoples in developing nations are busting their asses to get ahead, we discuss the merits of glassblowing and bowling classes.

The mere notion of equivocating an AT class to the true academics is a farce. Just because you learned something doesn't mean it still wasn't a waste. Even if it's free, you wasted that opportunity to take a history class or to learn another language. You all are telling me that in today's society basketweaving is as worthy as learning Spanish?

Don't ask me to hire you over the applicant who took the extra accounting or engineering classes. Hard workers who do a good job. THAT is what made America great. Not mediocre philanderers who are touch with their inner selves.

We are doomed..............

Stonewall
11-24-2006, 16:01
Don't ask me to hire you over the applicant who took the extra accounting or engineering classes. Hard workers who do a good job. THAT is what made America great. Not mediocre philanderers who are touch with their inner selves.

We are doomed..............

yeah but if it wasn't for us philanderers who are and want to be in touch with our inner selves you wouldn't have the Appalachian trail to hike on. if it wasn't for us tree huggers and hippies and our love for all ideas America wouldn't be great. What makes us great it the diversity of people and of thoughts that make this country what it is. So excuse me that I don't feel that we need another accountant or engineer to tell us where we can shove our money.

We are only doomed if we continue to have ignorant/arrogant people tell us what is best for our country.

Go out and hug a tree it will make you feel better.:D

SGT Rock
11-24-2006, 16:32
Or maybe the guy that wanted an EXTRA accounting class when he already took 10 of them is too anal retentive to work with. Send him on to some other place so he can annoy his co-workers at the competition.

HikerGuyTom
11-24-2006, 16:52
You still didn't answer my original question.

What college did you graduate from? Every school I've attended REQUIRED electives such as Physical Education...as well as Art, History and Psych/Sociology.

halftime
11-24-2006, 17:23
What makes us great it the diversity of people and of thoughts that make this country what it is.

We are only doomed if we continue to have ignorant/arrogant people tell us what is best for our country.

Skytoproberts: Am guessing from your previous post (and age) that your are a student. Are you familar with Daniel Pink's Book "A Whole New Mind"? If not you might be interested in checking it out. The book is finding its way onto the reading lists of many business schools. Your post is right on with the premis in this book.

The author asserts that the US (as well as most of the advanced world) is experiencing a shift from the familiar "information age" to a less defined "conceptional age". Pink describes the "Conceptional Age" as an economy and society much more suited for the "emotionally astute" and "creatively adroit" individuals whose "distinctive abilities the information age has often overlooked and undervalued". IE those who pursue a wide variety of interests and seek to be more creative in their thinking are more apt to succeed.

Check out this brief excerpt http://www.danpink.com/excerptwnm.php. You might find it interesting as well as supportive of your ideals and goals. Best of luck

Jim Adams
11-24-2006, 17:47
And this is why America is headed downhill.

While peoples in developing nations are busting their asses to get ahead, we discuss the merits of glassblowing and bowling classes.

The mere notion of equivocating an AT class to the true academics is a farce. Just because you learned something doesn't mean it still wasn't a waste. Even if it's free, you wasted that opportunity to take a history class or to learn another language. You all are telling me that in today's society basketweaving is as worthy as learning Spanish?

Don't ask me to hire you over the applicant who took the extra accounting or engineering classes. Hard workers who do a good job. THAT is what made America great. Not mediocre philanderers who are touch with their inner selves.

We are doomed..............America is great because it was settled by those who would not stand by the status quo. They became hard workers just to survive.
Remember the line from the movie southbounders. "If you want to sound smart, go to school. If you want to be smart, go to the wilderness."
If American education is so good compared to the rest of the world, why is it that we are constantly playing catch-up and Europe has 6 weeks / year manditory vacation time and Japan 8 weeks? Sounds like perfect schedules to be a hiker.
Basket weaving may be a very good skill to have after the "smart" people fire the missles!

Stonewall
11-25-2006, 02:49
Skytoproberts: Am guessing from your previous post (and age) that your are a student. Are you familar with Daniel Pink's Book "A Whole New Mind"? If not you might be interested in checking it out. The book is finding its way onto the reading lists of many business schools. Your post is right on with the premis in this book.

The author asserts that the US (as well as most of the advanced world) is experiencing a shift from the familiar "information age" to a less defined "conceptional age". Pink describes the "Conceptional Age" as an economy and society much more suited for the "emotionally astute" and "creatively adroit" individuals whose "distinctive abilities the information age has often overlooked and undervalued". IE those who pursue a wide variety of interests and seek to be more creative in their thinking are more apt to succeed.

Check out this brief excerpt http://www.danpink.com/excerptwnm.php. You might find it interesting as well as supportive of your ideals and goals. Best of luck

Awesome halftime, much appreciate for the book recommendation I will have to check it out.

I am a student, after 4 years of school I am getting my associates in Fine Art. I would have finished in 2 but was working more than going school. I will graduate in December and Hike the AT in June. The return to school to duel major in Adventure Recreation and Natural Resource Management starting in January. That is my plan so far so we will see what happens.

I do feel strongly that we need more companion in the coming years toward all of life’s aspects, and lose the anal retentive asses that still think nothing needs to change. Example a piece of paper that people call a degree.

halftime
11-26-2006, 23:09
much appreciate for the book recommendation I will have to check it out.

will graduate in December and Hike the AT in June.

My pleasure.
Heard on the news that Tower Records is closing doors due to competition from IPOD. This is the kind of thing that Pink is referring to. Future ecomomy will being driven by things not yet invented or developed. People who are inventive and creative will have the competative advantage.

Best of luck with your education and with your upcoming hike.

Tha Wookie
11-27-2006, 02:32
Awesome halftime, much appreciate for the book recommendation I will have to check it out.

I am a student, after 4 years of school I am getting my associates in Fine Art. I would have finished in 2 but was working more than going school. I will graduate in December and Hike the AT in June. The return to school to duel major in Adventure Recreation and Natural Resource Management starting in January. That is my plan so far so we will see what happens.

I do feel strongly that we need more companion in the coming years toward all of life’s aspects, and lose the anal retentive asses that still think nothing needs to change. Example a piece of paper that people call a degree.


Hey, have you decided on a school? Check out the UGA Forestry school. I'm in it now. Great program for your interests. I could help you get in touch with some people.

copythat
11-27-2006, 03:16
educational theory is an academic term for "we're not sure what works best for most of the people most of the time." it's all valid to someone. and no one has a monopoly on being right. and there are lots of opinions about what works. that's why it's called "educational theory."


btw, lesley university in cambridge mass offers the audubon programs, undergraduate and graduate, for people going into fields such as outdoor education. and their classes involve ... (hold on, now) ... going places outdoors! (radical, i know.)

(i once ran into a bunch of students from western conn. state university wandering around the a.t. in conn. they were getting elective credits for learning about the trail and were on their field trip. it was funny. they were all dressed like tourists, and when they saw the shelter, you could see in their eyes the sentence: "you mean you SLEEP here?")

MOWGLI
11-27-2006, 07:22
A
We are doomed..............
Do you see the forest when you're on the trail, or do the trees get in the way? :rolleyes:

Dancer
11-27-2006, 08:43
If I am interviewing someone for a job and I see more then one useless class on their transcript it tells me that they don't have their priorities in line & they're out.

I've never been required to bring my college transcripts to an interview nor have I been questioned about specific classes. Most people with half a brain know that all or most colleges require a wide variety of classes in different disiplines to get a degree unless it is a specialized field like cosmetology or carpentry.

I would have gladly traded bowling and phys ed for a literature or journalism class but sadly the 'worthless' sports classes were required.

Blackcloud, you may think that you know it all but you don't. It takes all kinds of people to make this country great, not just hard ass go getters like you.

Amazonwoman

BlackCloud
11-27-2006, 10:18
You still didn't answer my original question.

What college did you graduate from? Every school I've attended REQUIRED electives such as Physical Education...as well as Art, History and Psych/Sociology.

To answer the original question I went to Bucknell University, a small liberal arts college in Pennsylvania.

Or to put it into AT terms, an hour's drive north of Duncannon, right off the Mid-State Trail.

And there were electives; just none of the sort we have discussed here...

Two Speed
11-27-2006, 10:34
But there are requirements for electives at Bucknell. From their web page:

A minimum of two courses in humanities;
one must be a first-year course in English literature and composition
A minimum of two courses in social sciences
Doesn't sound like hard core mathematics, physics or engineering courses to me. Or are you just trying to say you wouldn't hire yourself? :-?

Yeah, too many froo-froo courses are not a good sign, however part of the higher education process includes a certain amount of material outside the core concentration. If I could have taken a backpacking course instead of the art appreciation thingy I was forced into you bet your stinky ol' hiking socks I would have signed up.

Stonewall
11-27-2006, 10:57
Hey Wookie
I haven't set in concrete where I am going but I am pretty sure I am going to go to Green Mountain College in Vermont but I will definantly check out UGA.:-? Thanks

troglobil
11-27-2006, 11:06
Just because you learned something doesn't mean it still wasn't a waste. Even if it's free, you wasted that opportunity to take a history class or to learn another language. You all are telling me that in today's society basketweaving is as worthy as learning Spanish?
..............
So why are you wasting your time here on WB; you could be out learning something useful.
There are many things I have learned over the years that were irrelevant at the time but came in pretty handy later in life. Anything you learn helps to make you a more rounded individual.

Just Jeff
11-27-2006, 13:14
Think outside the box. Just not outside the box defined by 'real classes' - we wouldn't want to get crazy creative...just inside the box creative.

A college education is to prepare you for life...not just for a career. Learning leisure activities that get you off your butt so you don't have a heart attack while you're designing the next great plutonium modulator thingy is also valuable knowledge.

We were required to take two PE classes a semester at my school. I would have traded most of them for a backpacking class - tennis, golf, volleyball, wallyball, and a few others. Probably wouldn't have traded SCUBA, unarmed combat or boxing, though.

Tha Wookie
11-27-2006, 13:34
A college education is to prepare you for life...not just for a career. Learning leisure activities that get you off your butt so you don't have a heart attack while you're designing the next great plutonium modulator thingy is also valuable knowledge.




outstanding, Jeff!:D :D

BlackCloud
11-27-2006, 13:38
But there are requirements for electives at Bucknell. From their web page:

A minimum of two courses in humanities;

one must be a first-year course in English literature and composition
A minimum of two courses in social sciencesDoesn't sound like hard core mathematics, physics or engineering courses to me. Or are you just trying to say you wouldn't hire yourself? :-?

Yeah, too many froo-froo courses are not a good sign, however part of the higher education process includes a certain amount of material outside the core concentration. If I could have taken a backpacking course instead of the art appreciation thingy I was forced into you bet your stinky ol' hiking socks I would have signed up.

Bucknell had plenty of electives. And I partook, as required. I never said electives were dumb or a waste. Only dumb electives are a waste.

I invite you to locate basketweaving, bowling, or hiking in the curriculum. They aren't there because the Bucknell faculty would never have it.

I also invite you to find basketweaving, bowling, or hiking on Harvard's website; or Duke's; or William and Mary's.

Jack Tarlin
11-27-2006, 17:18
Hey Black Cloud:

I lived in Cambridge when I was little. I've met all sorts of folks who went to Harvard.

Likewise Duke and W&M.

I've lived in Hanover for almost a decade. A lot of the students I've met aren't that special; in some cases, whether it was because of their economic background, family connections, race, whatever, in many cases, they'd have never qualified for Dartmouth in a thousand years.

And like any other school, there are "gut" courses that are known to be simple. In a few cases, the classes involve attending a film series and writing short papers. Other classes involves little reading and almost NO writing. There are pass/fail courses which means a lot of folks do the MINIMAL of what is required. Also, in a lot of places (Harvard is a very good example), many undergraduate classes aren't even given by full professors; they are too busy writing books, magazine articles, making money off-campus, etc. A great many courses are taught by graduate student "teachingassistants" and these courses not only aren't that great, but they're not that demanding, either.

In short, I don't know about basket-weaving, bowling, or hiking, but EVERY College or University has courses for those looking for the easy way out, and I'm quite sure this includes Harvard, Duke, and William and Mary.

So don't be such a snob when it comes to schools.

Some of the finest colleges in the country are places you probably have never heard of, and some of the places that do get mentioned all the time aren't all that.

troglobil
11-27-2006, 17:20
Who is to say what is a waste for each individual. When I was in college some of my electives included; home improvement,small engine repair,archeology,a class on septic tanks,surveying, and others. I use all these today. Required classes included advanced math, politcal science, chemestry,computer programming (with punch cards). I never use any of these. So wich ones were a waste for me? I don't think any of them were. Everything I learned help to make me into what I am today. If nothing else, I can hold my own on a crossword puzzle.

Two Speed
11-27-2006, 17:34
Bucknell had plenty of electives. And I partook, as required. I never said electives were dumb or a waste. Only dumb electives are a waste.

I invite you to locate basketweaving, bowling, or hiking in the curriculum. They aren't there because the Bucknell faculty would never have it.

I also invite you to find basketweaving, bowling, or hiking on Harvard's website; or Duke's; or William and Mary's.Umm, BlackCloud, I can think of how a backpacking course could teach one a practical application of Stoke's Law. Can you?

SGT Rock
11-27-2006, 17:35
You mean this Bucknell University: http://www.bucknell.edu/x2570.xml

Hmmmm... :-?

Two Speed
11-27-2006, 17:39
(Don't tell BlackCloud, but there's a Textile Engineering program at Southern Tech here in Marietta. All froo-froo stuff 'cuz it involves cloth and stuff, I'm sure.)

Two Speed
11-27-2006, 17:42
I just thought about that and it's more than a little snarky, so I'm make a couple of statements and then concentrate on more important things like supper and StarSchlep WhiteBlaze.

I've never had anything I learned hurt me. There were a few things I was a little slow on that hurt pretty bad, but the learning really wasn't the problem. IMHO there is NO useless knowledge.

SGT Rock
11-27-2006, 17:42
I think this is the same Bucknell University as well. I wonder what this sign up form is for: http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/dean_students/buckwild/elements/Buckwild_Application.pdf

Jack Tarlin
11-27-2006, 17:44
Touche, Rock, you just proved my point, and it took you only minutes to do it.

But is the basketweaving course at Bucknell elective or required? :D

jlb2012
11-27-2006, 17:46
"BuckWild" huh - I wonder if they have an orientation group called "BuckNaked"?

SGT Rock
11-27-2006, 17:49
Google is a muth****** ain't it.

BuckWild, BuckNekkid. I get it.

MOWGLI
11-27-2006, 17:58
You mean this Bucknell University: http://www.bucknell.edu/x2570.xml

Hmmmm... :-?

Black Cloud's string of bad luck continues - unabated. :rolleyes:

Tha Wookie
11-27-2006, 18:25
Black Cloud's string of bad luck continues - unabated. :rolleyes:

Hey, at least he's keeping the discussion going. There have been some excellent responses.

Thanks Black Cloud, for playing devil's advocate. Your name says it all.:D

BlackCloud
11-27-2006, 18:26
I think this is the same Bucknell University as well. I wonder what this sign up form is for: http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/dean_students/buckwild/elements/Buckwild_Application.pdf

BuckWild is a fairly new program designed and managed by the advisor of the Bucknell Outing Club. It is an orientation/outdoor education program offered to incoming freshman in August before they begin college. It is not for credit. I never questioned the value of NOLS or other such programs.

As for the pottery crap one of you found; it's an embarrassment to the institution!

Jack Tarlin
11-27-2006, 18:32
In Post #60 you invited folks to find basketweaving in their curriculum; you bluntly told us it was not to be found.

Now, after it's been found, and without a lot of searching, you're telling us you're embarassed by it.

Fact is, EVERY school has courses offered that some folks will find a way to make light of.

Bucknell's no different than anywhere else.

fiddlehead
11-27-2006, 18:52
When i went to college (72) i studied music, english, math, history, sociology and philosophy. ALL of these i use today. ( i guess most considered the music the "cake" course but today i am a professional musican)
For the guy above who claims he had advanced math in school but never uses it, yet is a surveyor, I have been working and learning surveying lately and can't imagine doing it without math (trig, plane geo., algebra,etc. ) skills.
They didn't offer AT classes and I really don't think they should. My point is, (and i'm the one that mentioned this about NOLS previously) that for the money you spend for college credits today, you could go out and hike a lot of miles and learn as much as the teachers know. It sounds like a cake course for the colleges (how do they accredit their teachers? experience? years on the trail? how many books they read? )
I've met college grads who don't know where British Columbia is, as well as the Pyrenees, Annapurna, and Ben Nevis. ALL of these I learned from hiking them, at little cost.
I'd love to see the final exam on the AT course. Do you think it's asking what's the best way to climb a mountain (or go down one) or put a tent stake in extra hard ground? Or perhaps how many states make up the AT, or how many hikers thru hike it a year? (useless information if you're an arduous hiker)
I'd rather see our colleges teach us how to best read (or write) a good book about hiking, than a course on hiking the AT. AS Nike says: Just do it!

Tha Wookie
11-27-2006, 19:49
When i went to college (72) i studied music, english, math, history, sociology and philosophy. ALL of these i use today. ( i guess most considered the music the "cake" course but today i am a professional musican)
For the guy above who claims he had advanced math in school but never uses it, yet is a surveyor, I have been working and learning surveying lately and can't imagine doing it without math (trig, plane geo., algebra,etc. ) skills.
They didn't offer AT classes and I really don't think they should. My point is, (and i'm the one that mentioned this about NOLS previously) that for the money you spend for college credits today, you could go out and hike a lot of miles and learn as much as the teachers know. It sounds like a cake course for the colleges (how do they accredit their teachers? experience? years on the trail? how many books they read? )
I've met college grads who don't know where British Columbia is, as well as the Pyrenees, Annapurna, and Ben Nevis. ALL of these I learned from hiking them, at little cost.
I'd love to see the final exam on the AT course. Do you think it's asking what's the best way to climb a mountain (or go down one) or put a tent stake in extra hard ground? Or perhaps how many states make up the AT, or how many hikers thru hike it a year? (useless information if you're an arduous hiker)
I'd rather see our colleges teach us how to best read (or write) a good book about hiking, than a course on hiking the AT. AS Nike says: Just do it!

That's easy advice... but in reality a lot of people have no clue where to start. Some people don't have the luxury of jumping over to the Pyrenees.

kind of like HYOH, everyone learns in different ways.

troglobil
11-27-2006, 20:11
hey fiddlehead, I never said I was a surveyor. I just use some of that stuff in everyday life. By advanced math I was thinking more along the lines of calculus, I figure alg. and trig as basic stuff. That may be because I just like math. Think about it you use basic surveying techniques when ever you do any orienteering ...compass readings, distances, plotting courses.

totally Boagus
11-27-2006, 20:16
BC,

don't fret, even a great school like William & Mary has a backpacking class. It's rolled up in a phys ed class, wilderness prep I believe. My wife who went there took it said it was a blast. She got to go hiking with all her hiking friends but got credit at the same time.

fiddlehead
11-27-2006, 20:32
That's easy advice... but in reality a lot of people have no clue where to start. Some people don't have the luxury of jumping over to the Pyrenees.

kind of like HYOH, everyone learns in different ways.

Luxury? we airhitched over for $115 and hitchiked from there. About the same as it cost me to get to Springer.

Troglobil: I'm not a surveyor either but am trying to learn. It gets easier with computer and GPS now days. I just wish I would've listened a little more in those math classes as I can use that stuff now. (it would all be a little easier too if we would learn the metric system and use it more in everyday life)

troglobil
11-27-2006, 20:53
the metric system would be easier, but old habits die hard. Every time I get something measured in metric I always try to figure what it would be in our standard ( brain farting now... can't think of what we call it). Any way when I was a wildland firefighter we took all our land measurements in chains(66'). Odd length, but it makes measuring acres real easy.

Skidsteer
11-27-2006, 21:52
the metric system would be easier, but old habits die hard. Every time I get something measured in metric I always try to figure what it would be in our standard ( brain farting now... can't think of what we call it). Any way when I was a wildland firefighter we took all our land measurements in chains(66'). Odd length, but it makes measuring acres real easy.

You got it right. We call it Standard or English Standard.

troglobil
11-27-2006, 23:12
kinda presumptuous of us to call it the Standard when the rest of the word uses something else.

laniamore
11-27-2006, 23:14
Having just caught up on this thread I can't believe it. First off - Black Cloud, I can't believe that you enjoying hiking as much as the rest of us do if you're so against this 'hiking class'. I'm sure it's not just some easy A class that goes, "The AT goes from Georgia to Maine. Okay, class dismissed." A lot of classes like this may seem like they are easy, but my Dad taught Caving, along with other geology classes, at IU and you'd be surprised how many people took it thinking it would easy and then failed. And even if some classes like swimming, hiking, and bowling are 'easy', most colleges don't offer them for more then a few credits (unless you are a Rec Major) and isn't that a better why to get rid of stress? I'd rather go hiking for 1 credit after taking seven hours of english, math and history classes then go get wasted playing beer pong with cheap beer any day. If you don't believe in hiking - stop visiting WB!

Skidsteer
11-27-2006, 23:16
kinda presumptuous of us to call it the Standard when the rest of the word uses something else.

They probably call it 'Standard Metric'. :rolleyes:

Human Nature I guess..

Just Jeff
11-28-2006, 02:08
kinda presumptuous of us to call it the Standard when the rest of the word uses something else.

Blame it on the Brits...the world still revolved around them when we inherited the system. 'Cept they think it still does. Which causes some wicked arguments with the French, who are pretty sure the whole universe revolves around them.

SGT Rock
11-28-2006, 07:11
BuckWild is a fairly new program designed and managed by the advisor of the Bucknell Outing Club. It is an orientation/outdoor education program offered to incoming freshman in August before they begin college. It is not for credit. I never questioned the value of NOLS or other such programs.

As for the pottery crap one of you found; it's an embarrassment to the institution!

Then I guess that other class I found you don't want to see either :D

Mask painting and make-up. I guess it would go good on Halloween - but pretty useless the rest of the year LOL.

This thread started about a college course on Hiking the AT. Seems a bit like NOLS or other such programs :-?

fiddlehead
11-28-2006, 08:56
T

This thread started about a college course on Hiking the AT. Seems a bit like NOLS or other such programs :-?

I would love to see the final exam questions. Does anyone know how we could find out?

SGT Rock
11-28-2006, 08:58
Well Warren Doyle once taught a class like this for a college. Maybe he has some insight.

MOWGLI
11-28-2006, 09:31
I would love to see the final exam questions. Does anyone know how we could find out?

The answer to all of the multiple choice questions on the final would be All of the Above.

Alligator
11-28-2006, 09:51
They probably call it 'Standard Metric'. :rolleyes:

Human Nature I guess..SI-Systeme International d'Unites

Skidsteer
11-28-2006, 10:19
SI-Systeme International d'Unites

So it's sooo standard that the word metric is not even used in the description? :)

Tha Wookie
11-28-2006, 11:06
I would love to see the final exam questions. Does anyone know how we could find out?


For my class, the final exam was executing a semester-ending backpacking trip. PE classes are pass/fail at UGA, and while some courses like fitness do have written tests, the objective in programming is to have the student demonstrate their knowledge learned from class.

We have exceptionally intelligent students at UGA, and yes the course is very easy to them academically speaking. It's just about learning how to do it. If you show you can do it under the guidelines layed out in the course (safety, LNT, good gear choices, make a can stove, etc), then you passed, and you get the one hour credit.

You might have already figured all this out on your own over the past 70 years, Fiddlehead, but I will tell you that the students in my course (and I'm sure Warren's and the AT course in this thread) left with an accelerated knowledge of hiking that otherwise would have taken them a long time to figure out. I took my 20 years and thousands of miles of backpacking and boiled it down for them to the essentials so they didn't have to repeat my mistakes. The word for that is science.

Don't know about your experience, but of the four students in my class who chose to thru-hike after the class, all four made it. Although I'm sure they all could have made it without my help.

They didn't have to wait for aged enlightenment, which certainly has its own value. But they showed considerable wisdom when they let someone else give them a good head start, an education.

fiddlehead
11-28-2006, 13:36
tha Wookie, what college do you teach at?
How much does a college credit cost there?
I hear what you are saying but i still say experience is the best teacher. For example: walking/camping in the rain. After a few nights, thru-hikers will ask around, figure out what they need to know, set up their tent in the rain, learn how to cook inside of it, pack it up in the morning and keep their essentials dry. A college course might not get them out sleeping and hiking in the downpour that they are more than likely to get from actual experience.
And who told you i was 70?

HikerGuyTom
11-28-2006, 15:18
Aww heck, I'm bored so I'll give it a shot. A quick search revealed that:

Duke offers:
- Weight Training PHYSEDU15A
- Fly Fishing PHYSEDU18
- Pilates Mat and Ball PHYSEDU34
- Beginning Tennis PHYSEDU40
- Beginning Swimming PHYSEDU20
- Bowling PHYSEDU10

From:http://www.siss.duke.edu/schedule/1135/PHYSEDU

William and Mary's offers:
137Bowling
138Camping
147Golf1
133Backpacking1
From: http://www.wm.edu/catalog/1999-00/kinesiology.html

jmaclennan
11-28-2006, 15:45
And this is why America is headed downhill.

While peoples in developing nations are busting their asses to get ahead, we discuss the merits of glassblowing and bowling classes.

The mere notion of equivocating an AT class to the true academics is a farce. Just because you learned something doesn't mean it still wasn't a waste. Even if it's free, you wasted that opportunity to take a history class or to learn another language. You all are telling me that in today's society basketweaving is as worthy as learning Spanish?

Don't ask me to hire you over the applicant who took the extra accounting or engineering classes. Hard workers who do a good job. THAT is what made America great. Not mediocre philanderers who are touch with their inner selves.

We are doomed..............

you've got it backwards, bc. it's the anal retentive type-A segment of the population that's causing us to go downhill. war, exploitation, environmental degradation... all the fault of engineers, physicists, etc. (i'm overstating, obviously, but you should see my point). thanks for faciliating our descent.:rolleyes:

Tha Wookie
11-28-2006, 16:29
tha Wookie, what college do you teach at?
How much does a college credit cost there?
I hear what you are saying but i still say experience is the best teacher. For example: walking/camping in the rain. After a few nights, thru-hikers will ask around, figure out what they need to know, set up their tent in the rain, learn how to cook inside of it, pack it up in the morning and keep their essentials dry. A college course might not get them out sleeping and hiking in the downpour that they are more than likely to get from actual experience.
And who told you i was 70?


Oh, you meant you graduated in 72, my mistake.... regardless, point stands.

I teach from time to time at the University of Georgia. In-state credits (paid for by lottery scholorships for most students) are $160 per hour of credit. That's about 8 dollars a class. Plus we pay gas.

I agree, that's why backpacking class uses the experiential education model . Some of my students would never backpack ever in their lives without the class. You're right people learn different ways. That's why we mix up teaching methods and guide them through the experiential learning process.

Sounds like you agree with it more than you thought.:D

By the way, the weather doesn't know if they're in a class or out by themselves. We had one trip with freezing rains and an eventual ice storm on Springer one year. They did great. And they did it on their own. But me and a trained Wilderness First Responder were there just in case.

I bet your the kind of guy who never stops for directions. just kidding:D

Tha Wookie
11-28-2006, 16:36
students braving weather on class trip:
http://www.thawookie.com/abcsite/Images/ppmorninggirls%20copy.jpg

fiddlehead
11-28-2006, 17:24
I stop for directions if i'm in a hurry but would much rather attempt to figure out where i am by myself.
Sounds like UG is a pretty low priced school compared to most. I'll keep it in mind. (although i'm not sure what an hour of credit means in terms of a college degree)
So, given the choice between a college or university that offers backpacking classes or one that is strictly the classic subjects, would you choose the backpacking one?
my answer to that question: I guess it would be up to my son but I would try to make him see the importance of, say a geography or language class over BP101.
Also, do you wish that all university's carried this curriculum?

BlackCloud
11-28-2006, 18:46
If you don't believe in hiking - stop visiting WB!

You win the misquote of the thread. Dare I surmise that you never took Reading Comprehension as a subject? Either that or you aren't overly familiar with the idea of a free exchange of ideas on the internet. Your thinly veiled message of "get out of our chat room" is pretty weak.

I only have time for a few short points to the rest of my many, many detractors:
1. Where do you people find the time to research college websites? Jobs anyone?
2. The fact that all schools apparently do have these non-academic for credit courses is disheartening to me;
3. You're an idiot if you think America was built on anything but hard work;
4. Speaking of hard work, here comes my boss........:(

ed bell
11-28-2006, 19:01
C'mon BC, a few courses that fall outside the norm academic-wise are not a credibility killer, lighten up. Google makes searching easy, you didn't learn that in school?:rolleyes: Thanks for helping to stir this pot, though.:-? I would never tell you to go away.:)

MOWGLI
11-28-2006, 21:47
You're an idiot if you think America was built on anything but hard work;


Actually, America was built on bad coffee. I know, because John Hiatt told me so.

laniamore
11-28-2006, 22:33
Yes, get out of our chatroom... what am I 12? I'm sorry I wasted my time in your thread. Oh - and if you consider hard work killing Native American's and stealing their land then ya, you're right. Maybe after that I guess... my bad.

Just Jeff
11-28-2006, 22:35
...and if you consider hard work killing Native American's and stealing their land then ya, you're right.

That took about 10 minutes longer than I thought it would to show up in a reply.

Just a polite request - could we please not hash out this particular topic in a thread that's not in the politics forum and doesn't deal with college courses on the AT?

laniamore
11-28-2006, 22:37
I'm sorry Just Jeff and to anyone else. This is stupid and I'm done.

SGT Rock
11-29-2006, 00:05
Hey y'all chill a little. No need to beat up anyone over this. First off most of this is opinions - and everyone has one. So that leads to the next point - getting ugly or upset by something posted here isn't going to change these college's policies - so don't take those bad feelings you may have for something someone said here on this thread out on the other members. Getting upset with Blackcloud isn't going to make him change his mind, and getting upset and ranting at the other hikers here because some colleges are going down the tubes and America is going to hell because some kids got some elective credit by getting some exercise is also not constructive.

Stonewall
11-29-2006, 01:17
Hey y'all chill a little. No need to beat up anyone over this. First off most of this is opinions - and everyone has one. So that leads to the next point - getting ugly or upset by something posted here isn't going to change these college's policies - so don't take those bad feelings you may have for something someone said here on this thread out on the other members. Getting upset with Blackcloud isn't going to make him change his mind, and getting upset and ranting at the other hikers here because some colleges are going down the tubes and America is going to hell because some kids got some elective credit by getting some exercise is also not constructive.

lol yeah but we won't have anything to post about in this thread then :(

gypsy
12-01-2006, 16:17
They offer a backpacking course at my community college in Virginia. You get to do a series of weekend overnight trips in the Grayson Highlands area. I myself opted for Hip-Hop I. :D Oh and by the way Black Cloud, the course is offered so wouldn't that count as a real class? It is really offered:) Anyways, I don't understand your logic but I do understand your chosen name.

warren doyle
12-01-2006, 18:43
In 1976-77, I organized and helped teach a two-semester interdisciplinary course at the University of Connecticut that members of the 1977 UCONN Appalachian Trail Circle Expedition took before their 109-day summer journey up the entire trail. We had wilderness/trail literature, regional history, environmental philosophy, natural history and social psychology components. Students earned two credits per semester but none for the actual thru-hike.
I taught several backpacking courses for PE or Parks/Recreation credit at Esatern Connecticut State University, George Mason University (VA), Concord College (WV), Davis & Elkins College (WV).
I also taught a semester-long interdisciplinary course (3 credits) on the Appalachian Trail for Appalachian State University (NC).
It is my dream to implement an 'Appalachian Trail Semester' here at Lees-McRae College. Students would attend for one semester going to classes for the first five weeks, then going on a five-week walk on the AT, and then returning to campus for five weeks to synthesize their trail experience with their prior knowledge. The five subject areas would be:

1) Wilderness/Adventure Literature
2) Wilderness Psychology
3) Environmental Philosophy
4) Natural History
5) Appalachian Regional History

Students would earn 15 credits. It would be in a vigorous academic and physical environment. No 'camping for credit' philosophy.

jmaclennan
12-01-2006, 21:06
It is my dream to implement an 'Appalachian Trail Semester' here at Lees-McRae College. Students would attend for one semester going to classes for the first five weeks, then going on a five-week walk on the AT, and then returning to campus for five weeks to synthesize their trail experience with their prior knowledge. The five subject areas would be:

1) Wilderness/Adventure Literature
2) Wilderness Psychology
3) Environmental Philosophy
4) Natural History
5) Appalachian Regional History

Students would earn 15 credits. It would be in a vigorous academic and physical environment. No 'camping for credit' philosophy.

Warren, i will help you with this. i am a ph.d. in sociology with a focus on both environmental sociology and outdoor recreation. wrote my dissertation on the social processes among AT long-distance hikers (thru-hiked in '03).