View Full Version : New AT section dedicated, includes disability access
mountain squid
11-24-2006, 19:25
For info on AT section near TN91:
http://www.starhq.com/html/news/articles/articles.asp?day=Sunday&article=nw-atrelocate.html
See you on the trail,
mt squid
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-24-2006, 19:57
Woohoo - can't wait to take my mother and aunt.
Lone Wolf
11-24-2006, 22:34
Better eat your Wheaties. It ain't easy to push a wheel chair bound person on it.
Crash! Bang!
11-24-2006, 22:57
i cant wait for the escalator up katahdin and washington
halftime
11-24-2006, 23:39
Better eat your Wheaties. It ain't easy to push a wheel chair bound person on it.
Is it because the trail is too steep? Not familiar with the area but the article says the trail is about 1/2 mile long. According to ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) a path for wheel chairs should be 12' long for every 1' gain in elevation. If this guideline is followed, a 1/2 mile path would only accomodate a total altitude change of about 200' (up or down).
Regardless:
I am in favor of having places like this where people with physical disabilities can experience the beauty and nature of the trail. I have seen some accessible areas in a few of the parks out west. They are naturally pleasing and provide much joy for folks who would otherwise be denied the experience.
Just Jeff
11-24-2006, 23:53
I'm in favor of having some places accessible. Can't (and shouldn't try to) remake the entire wilderness to make it handicapped friendly.
halftime
11-25-2006, 00:02
I'm in favor of having some places accessible. Can't (and shouldn't try to) remake the entire wilderness to make it handicapped friendly.
Agree completly. Virtual reality is a good thing as well. WB is about as accessible as you can get.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-25-2006, 09:39
Guys, the veiw from someone who has spent time in a wheel chair -- it is terrible to love the wilderness & views and not be able to experience it. While I don't want to see the entire wilderness made accessible, I do think it should happen a bit more than it does now.
Sure you can drive down Skyline drive and get the views, but that is not the same as being in the middle of the forest or viewing the surrounding land in the middle of the forest.
While I wish no one here would ever find themselves in a wheelchair, reality is some will. When it happens, I want wilderness experiences still available for you.
mountain squid
11-25-2006, 11:02
It is not paved, nor is it flat. So, of course, there will be some difficulty. Not impossible, though. I don't think it is too steep and there are some great views to reward the effort.
And besides, are all disabled people confined to a wheelchair?
See you on the trail,
mt squid
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-25-2006, 12:07
As Squid notes, not all disabled people are in wheelchairs. Accessible walkways must not contain things like rocks or roots that would impede people using walkers or canes and must mark hazards for the visually impaired. Removed link to wrong info - use link below for correct info about guidelines for trails to receive accessible rating
FYI- actually, guidelines for trails are different then those for sidewalks. The guidelines used for the construction of this trail are from the Forest Service and may be found at www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/accessibility (http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/accessibility). A PDF copy of the 'Guidebook' can be downloaded here.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-26-2006, 11:06
Tipper, thanks for the info. I stand corrected and have removed my link.
mountain squid
11-29-2006, 12:21
Oops. Just realized that the original link is no longer valid. If you wish to read the article, you'll have to download a .pdf file. The file is about 16mb and takes a few minutes to download. Follow this new link:
http://archives.starhq.com/PDF/2006/indexNov.asp
Once there, click on the "111906.pdf" file. The article begins on the front page and continues on the last page. Sorry for the inconvenience. If you do download, you can also read about the other exciting Sunday news in Elizabethton, TN. Woohoo!! You might also recognize someone in the photo...:-?
See you on the trail,
mt squid
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-29-2006, 12:39
A link to the pic for those without broadband access (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/Elizabethton111906.jpg)
mountain squid
11-29-2006, 12:49
Thanks, Dino. That makes things a little easier.
Regardless:
I am in favor of having places like this where people with physical disabilities can experience the beauty and nature of the trail. I have seen some accessible areas in a few of the parks out west. They are naturally pleasing and provide much joy for folks who would otherwise be denied the experience.[/QUOTE]
I hiked this area in the spring when it was under construction. From what I saw, you are not going to get much of the beauty and nature of the trail in that section.:-?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-30-2006, 11:28
Grampie, when you are in a wheelchair just being able to go somewhere where you can look in all four directions and see nothing but wilderness and trail is enough. I literally cried with joy the first time I was able to find such a place after my auto accident.
Lone Wolf
12-21-2006, 11:48
I was at the trailhead a couple days ago. The trail is growing over the path. Gonna be hard to get a wheel chair thru it.
There's a similar section just below Falls village CT. And that loooong boardwalk just below Vernon (NJ?) except for that insane bridge over the stream in the middle of it. The AT is meant as a public resource. It's not necessary for all 2175 miles to be insanely difficult. I just read Earl Shaffer's diary of his 1998 hike, and he was pretty annoyed with how hard it had become in the years since his Long Cruise in '48.
Doesnt look very wheelchair friendly to me. Hey Mountain Squid, I see you are a fellow Johnson Citian ! Greetings !
RAT
mountain squid
12-23-2006, 14:19
Just got back from Cross Mt Rd off of TN91. Hiked to Double Springs Shelter and back. Didn't see any "trail growing over the path"?!?! Another interesting thing from here is the Civil War era house that is a couple hundred yards off the trail (no disability access to it, though). After you pass the abandoned barns you'll see it off the trail on the right. It's pretty neat...
Hey RAT. Yeah, I've been here for a couple of years. I like the area. Plenty of access points to the AT...
See you on the trail,
mt squid
I just read Earl Shaffer's diary of his 1998 hike, and he was pretty annoyed with how hard it had become in the years since his Long Cruise in '48.
Of course it was harder, he was 50 years older! I get annoyed I can't do the things I used to do only 5 years ago.
Of course it was harder, he was 50 years older! I get annoyed I can't do the things I used to do only 5 years ago.
C'mon, Sly. You know there's more to it than that.
Lone Wolf
12-23-2006, 15:02
C'mon, Sly. You know there's more to it than that.
Yeah. Earl got to walk a s**tload of roads and the AT was a few hundred miles shorter.:)
Yeah. Earl got to walk a s**tload of roads and the AT was a few hundred miles shorter.:)
And that's not the whole story either, is it? At what point, and for what reason, was the AT diverted from the center of Monson?
IIRC (memory's a bit hazy) there was an ascent over a Bear Mtn, in Vermont, that I walked up in 2002... and which was not on my 1990 map.
Etc. etc. :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
12-23-2006, 15:18
The AT had to be routed off all roads where possible in order to recieve funding from the US government.
The AT had to be routed off all roads where possible in order to recieve funding from the US government.
That doesn't explain why it had to take a winding route to the very top of Pond Mtn. Or why, given a choice, the AT always takes the gnarliest route between any two points. ;)
I'm not complaining, Wolf. I'm just saying: the AT doesn't exist solely for the benefit of the fittest hikers.
C'mon, Sly. You know there's more to it than that.
No I don't. It's obviously much harder at 79 than 29. Much of the trail in the olden days was straight up and down on ridge lines (I've seen the old blazes), now there's all sorts of switchbacks and side cuts to offset those and road walks.
No I don't. It's obviously much harder at 79 than 29. Much of the trail in the olden days was straight up and down on ridge lines (I've seen the old blazes), now there's all sorts of switchbacks and side cuts to offset those and road walks.
I've cited several examples and the words of Earl Shaffer. I've got nothing more to say.
I didn't see any words of Earl Shaffer cited.
I didn't see any words of Earl Shaffer cited.
Have you read the journal of his 1998 hike? If I have time later, I'll try to find a few of the relevant comments. Earl did a sobo hike in '65, and if there's a diary for that, it might also be informative.
Have you read the journal of his 1998 hike? If I have time later, I'll try to find a few of the relevant comments. Earl did a sobo hike in '65, and if there's a diary for that, it might also be informative.
Earl's '65 hike is on Trailjournals...
http://www.trailjournals.com/earlshaffer/
I have "Walking with Spring" and "Calling Me Back to the Hills" I know that he thought it was harder 50 years later.
From Earl Shaffer's 1998 Journal, "Calling me back to the Hills" (Westcliffe Publishers.) This is the hardbound edition, with beautiful photos by Bart Smith. This is not a conclusive or exhaustive list.
P. 91, Near Kent:
"The St. Johns Ledges are more suitable for rock
climbing than backpacking... This route was not on
the trail in '48 and shouldn't be now, at least with
the stone steps."
...
"I went to Tyringham, Massachusetts, which is now bypassed."
P. 102, referencing the trail between Killington and Hanover:
"This section has been relocated over mountains instead of
valleys, making it much more difficult... Some of this section
is tough as can be, especially the needless crossing of a pinnacle."
P. 109:
"The climb up Liberty Mountain is steep and rocky and the ridge-
crest to Mount Lafayette is narrow and difficult. In '48 the
trail didn't go there."
P. 110, referencing the Mahoosucs:
"Extra loops of the Appalachian Mountain Club trail system
have been added, making the trail even tougher than it was
before."
P. 115:
"The face of Baldpate Mountain should be posted, 'For rock
climbers only.' In '48, the trail did not include this
slanting, almost smooth rock face."
P. 116:
"Old Blue Mountain, not on the trail in '48, is really a
tough ascent."
mountain squid
03-13-2007, 17:45
This thread 'bubbled off' so I am 'bubbling' it back on with an update. After a few minor setbacks (someone broke the tip of a drill bit (oops, that was me:o) and some dead drill batteries) we completed (actually there is still a little to do) building a fence/stile (I'm not really sure of the correct terminology). Anyway, the idea is to keep ATVers out while still allowing hikers and disabled people access. It might be a tricky maneuver (it is kinda like a small maze) but should be passable.
Anyway, just an update.
See you on the trail,
mt squid
Did I mention that digging postholes is tough work?
mweinstone
03-13-2007, 17:56
the first time you push a loved one in a chair out onto an accesable green sunny patch of non hospital , .... after a long time not having been outside and with still a time to go before the freedom of walking is enjoied,.....you dont forget it. i would alow them to handycap ramp the world if it allows one person access to there birthright outdoors. amen?
SuzyQhoo
03-13-2007, 22:14
There are many off-road w/c models available these days. I can't find the model I'm looking for that I saw in a catalog recently...it is basically like the "Quickie" brands, but with knobby tires...self propelled. Here is a link to a racing model: http://www.sitski.com/dhx1.htm
I work with adults with both physical and cognitive disabilities in a recreation setting. It can be challenging finding accessible places to play outdoors! Fortunately, the camp we go to twice a year is 100% accessible on 270 acres and a huge lake!
I, also, do agree that we should not alter the natural landscape of the trails just to make it accessible to each and every person, but it sure is nice to have some representative sections of them available (and accessible), like FD said! :)
LIhikers
03-16-2007, 17:17
Not all disabilities are created equal. My wife and I have a friend, who is blind, who has hiked much of the AT in NY with us including Bear Mountain and Anthony's Nose. so, you see, the AT is already handicap accesible, to a dree. I guess Bill Irwin's (spelling) hike would prove that.
I've had plenty of personal and professional experiences traveling with folks with and without disabilities (together) in wilderness areas. Instead of separating folks as: Disabled - Ablebodied, etc. etc. (all terms and labels are bad) - we talked about our groups as having "Mixed Abilities". LIHikers is right - not all disabilities are equal. As we all know, people WITHOUT disabilities are equal, either. Each of us takes into our hiking experience different skills - some physical, some mental/psychological, some emotional - that impact the outcomes of that experience. That said, I know some folks who are wheelchair users, for example, who are better outdoor leaders then the nondisabled person with no experience being in the outdoors. Abilities come in many different packages.
[quote=Tipper;340673]As we all know, people WITHOUT disabilities are equal, either. ]
meant to say "AREN'T EQUAL":p
WalkinHome
03-17-2007, 15:20
And that's not the whole story either, is it? At what point, and for what reason, was the AT diverted from the center of Monson?
IIRC (memory's a bit hazy) there was an ascent over a Bear Mtn, in Vermont, that I walked up in 2002... and which was not on my 1990 map.
Etc. etc. :rolleyes:
The Monson Relo was finished in 1989 (after 10 years of kicking it around-wasn't done lightly) and was the result of trying to get the AT off of as many road walks as possible. The road walk, at the time was quite extensive, and continued well past the highway crossing. I would speculate that the conventional wisdom was that roads rarely become LESS developed while just the opposite is more likely. Let's see, a road that travels along Lake Hebron possibly getting more developed with time? Naaaaa. Oh yeah, the roads are still there so it is still an option (and in Monson the white blazes can still be seen.) LOL On my hike I came into Shaw's on the old AT and then had Keith drop us off back there so I had the best of both worlds. Quite frankly IMHO the road walk sucked.