View Full Version : AT Thru-Hike with only 3 to 5 resupplies?
gardenville
11-25-2006, 20:46
Unsupported/Unresupplied/Thru-Hikes??
There is a thread on Backpackinglight.com about the possibility of a AT Thru-Hike with only 3 or 5 resupplies.
Ron Bell (Mountain Laurel Designs) asked the question:
"Wondering if any one knows of any Records/ Info for any of the triple crown hikes, AT/CDT/PCT by folks going unsupported (no help from crews) and with the fewest resupplies.
Could the entire AT be done with only five or even four resupplies?
Could all of the 550m in VA be done in one push?
What would the starting weights and miles per day need to be?
How long to complete?
How crazy to try?
Gear lists?"
You don't need to be a member to read this thread.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=4623
WB has more folks on and off the AT than any other site I know of, what are your thoughts?
Spirit Walker
11-25-2006, 20:53
Why would you want to? No way I would carry 10-20 days supplies at a time unless it was absolutely necessary (i.e. Alaska). Carrying only a few day's supplies means that your pack is lighter so you enjoy your hike more. Why would you want to weigh yourself down unnecessarily? Besides, going to town to eat 'real food' and get clean is one of the great pleasures on a thruhike. I don't get it.
gardenville
11-25-2006, 21:05
This is a composite answer from the current thread at BackpackingLight.com:
"It seems like the real strength of this kind of thinking would be to use the hike as a training ground for longer, riskier walks. There are a lot of places in the world where resupply is difficult or impossible (like an Arctic trip). Being able to go 700 miles without resupply opens up all sorts of new possible routes in Alaska, Canada, probably Russia, maybe in the Amazon, etc..."
halftime
11-25-2006, 21:35
Averaging 20 miles per day in 4 segments (3 resuplies) with 28 days between supply points. 110-112 days total. 1.5 lbs food per day = 42 lbs food. Could someone do it?
mogilews
11-25-2006, 21:41
To put it nicely, this is insane. The trail is hard enough with the lightest pack you can get. You're not hiking through darkest Africa. You're not even out West. Towns are close and convenient.
BUT . . . if it's your thing, then anything can be done. Just keep in mind that you escalate your chance of injury with a 50-60 lb pack, as opposed to a 20-30 one. I guess it's like going into a bar and picking a fight with the biggest, meanest biker you can find . . .
mogilews
11-25-2006, 21:51
Oh wait, I see. Using the AT as a trainer for more remote areas. Lord, there's easier trails to use as trainers where you aren't pitted against sadistic trail planners (I'm looking at you BMECC). But that's an idea. If you could do the AT with ten days of food then you could certainly do, oh, Taklamakan.
Jack Tarlin
11-25-2006, 22:00
Halftime--
It certainly COULD be done, but I think you'd be nuts.
Even at 1.5 pounds of food a day, this would still mean starting out from town with a thirty pound food bag, which is crazy.
Plus, 1.5 pounds a day is less than what most folks eat: If your breakfast was a pack of Pop Tarts; Lunch was a cheese and pepperoni sandwich; you had 3 candy bars during the day; Dinner was 1 Lipton and your dessert was a pack of combos and a small packet of Oreo's.....well THAT's about a pound and a half. Most folks eat a lot more than that during the day, and would absolutely require more if they were hiking 20 miles a day every day with a 60 pound pack.
In short, the answer to your question is that someone absolutely COULD do the Trail on a handfulof re-supply stops, especially if they freeze-dried or dehydrated everything, but it'd still be a miserable horrible way to hike.
fiddlehead
11-25-2006, 22:09
I think if you were going to do something like this in Alaska, Canada, Russia , or the Artic, you would take a gun and shoot some game. In the Amazon, you could eat fish and edible plants. On the AT, except in hunting season, you would have to carry too much.
I'd attempt it maybe if i was 300 lbs and wanted to lose half the weight.
I carried 12 days food once, wouldn't want to again.
Jack Tarlin
11-25-2006, 22:13
It should also be remembered that a very large percentage of the calories taken in during a thru-hike are consumed in town. This includes such things as fresh fruit, vegetables, juices, whole milk, dairy products, and real meat.
Not only would a great many calories be lost by not going into town regularly, but so would the chance to eat such things as green salad, non-preserved food, fresh breads, etc.
It would not only be harder to carry 20 to 30 pounds of food at a time, but it would also mean a less healthy diet, one that consisted mainly of dried, preserved, overly salted and chemically treated food.
Resupplying only five or six times during a thru-hike would not only be tough; it'd also be pretty unhealthy.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-25-2006, 22:18
The diet could be improved by the use of dried beans, lentils, whole grains and brown rice, but the lengthy cooking times would demand using a fire to cook and it would still be darned heavy.
halftime
11-25-2006, 22:27
Halftime--
It certainly COULD be done, but I think you'd be nuts.
Jack/Mogilews: Just to set the record staight here, this ain't my thing. I was only analyzing the question raised in post #1. It's no big deal to me but I can see some viewing the possibility as a worthy challenge.
well this is what andrew skurka was gonna do, but he decided not to do it.. but if you go to his website you can find out how he had planned it..he is a excelent planner and goes into great detail how and with what he does his trips..and he has done some amazing things..great site:)
gardenville
11-25-2006, 22:47
Averaging 20 miles per day in 4 segments (3 resuplies) with 28 days between supply points. 110-112 days total. 1.5 lbs food per day = 42 lbs food. Could someone do it?
halftime,
You are real close to the numbers I came up with. My food per day is now at 1.5 pounds a day. I am on a liquid diet using Dry Ensure with a little Carnation Chocolate Breakfast drink mixed in for added flavor and a few more calories. It gives me 282.5 calories per 2.29 ounces and everything I need. I used this the first of Oct when I did the Georgia Loop. The 1.5 pounds per day of the Dry stuff worked fine. I also used a little Hammer Perpetuem in all my drinking water.
My first draft for 5 resupplies would be:
1. Springer Mt., GA to Damascus, VA - 459.5 miles / 23 days
2. Damascus, VA to Harpers Ferry, WV - 550 miles / 22 days
3. Harpers Ferry,WV to Pawling, NY - 422 miles / 22days
4. Pawling, NY to Pinkham Notch, NH - 424.4 miles / 22 days
5. Pinkham Notch, NH to Mt. Katahdin, ME - 319.5 miles / 22 days
The rest of my gear load would be Super Ultra Light maybe in the 5 to 7 pound range except for food, water and a few consumables. No cooking as I just add water to the dry stuff and drink. I have been on this liquid diet about 18 months and all the stuff mentioned about real food isn't really necessary. The Ensure product and the other products like Ensure give me a complete and nutritional balance of everything I need everyday.
Jack Tarlin
11-25-2006, 22:54
The only thing you've left out.....
Why do you want to do this?
Blissful
11-25-2006, 23:03
I think sometimes this hiking stuff can go too far. It almost becomes an obsession - like the weight of the pack, who can do it with fewest supplies or the shortest time - is there going to be a Guinness book of records on AT hiking I wonder? But in the end, does it really matter?
I'll be SO thankful just to get from Springer to Katahdin and all that I learn along the way. The joy of the journey.
But I guess it's all HYOH.
skeeterfeeder
11-25-2006, 23:20
This question, along with others I have read about faster hikes, etc. indicates that often the questions come from people who haven't yet experienced the trail. Trust me, the trail can be a GREAT challenge, regardless of how much testosterone you may (or wish to) possess.
Why would you want to stack the deck against yourself before you even know if you can play the game?
If you want to up the annie, I would suggest you first do the trail and then, if it wasn't enough of a challenge, you could try variations on your previous hike.
(Sorry for the mixed mediphors.)
Waht would be the point in hiking virginia without resupplying? For instance, you practically walk past a grocery store in Daleville, about halfway thru VA. Even if you absolutely wanted to skip hitching and not waste time, you'd be foolish to pass up a resupply opportunity here.
Likewise for places like Duncannon, Kent, Hanover, Hot Springs, etc,
tarbender
11-26-2006, 04:54
Five resupplies during a thru is totally possible. You start off with a full load and reup four times. Basically you have five 435 mile chunks of AT. Your pack would contain about 30 pounds of food for each segment. You would need to try to hike each segment in about 15 - 17 days. People have certainly hiked the AT in 85 days before but they probably had more than five supplies during the whole hike. This a very attainable goal for a welll conditioned and highly skilled hiker practicing UL techninque. The BPL post about this is definitely very interesting. I think many people would be suprised at some of the discussions, scenarios, and models that appear there. That said, I basically agree with the general idea most of you guys seem to have here. I think it is something I would never do. I do however think that someone will do it and shatter many peoples perceptions. Some people don't see the purpose in this. I do. It probably has a lot to do with stuff like sponsorship, marketing, growth, development, field testing, public relations, etc. It will be a valuable and enriching experience for all those involved in an attempt of this nature.
-jeff aka frankenfeet
If you try this idea and you see me, don't expect to bum food from me.
Lone Wolf
11-26-2006, 08:31
It can't be done.
SGT Rock
11-26-2006, 08:43
Well it could be done. But it would be slightly nuts. A base weight of 10 pounds of gear, plus 2 pounds of food a day x 25 days = 50 pounds for a food bag, then add some water and fuel and you start with about 65-70 pounds for a starting pack weight.
I imagine you would probably end up spending about 2 weeks at each re-supply just putting weight back on and eating something different for a change.
But I wouldn't want to do it that way. And ScottP is right. Don't expect to bum food from me.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
11-26-2006, 09:05
Ensure and its higher calorie cousin, Ensure Plus, are not designed to meet the nutritional needs of extremely active people like backpackers. Those products are designed for sedentary people and the vitamin / mineral mix is designed for older adults. While it could certainly be a good addition to a hiker's diet, it would not provide all of the things a hiking body needs for months on end.
I just went on an 11 day trek in the Sierras this summer. Our packs weighed about 40 lbs, using a sierra stove to avoid fuel weight. But at that load, our milage was cut way down. Sure, you can carry a huge load of food, but there is a price in milage. Also, we carried what we could survive on for 11 days knowing we could eat like pigs at the end. Doing that over an extended time with no other food would mean malnutrition.
Lone Wolf
11-26-2006, 09:53
It can't be done.
Just think about it: 20 miles per day average with a 65 to 70 pound pack.
It involves carrying a much heavier pack than most, and doing many more miles than most. It doesn't sound feasible, but for those who want to try it, go for it.
SGT Rock
11-26-2006, 10:59
It can't be done.
Actually I was thinking you could do it. :sun
Just think about it: 20 miles per day average with a 65 to 70 pound pack.
It involves carrying a much heavier pack than most, and doing many more miles than most. It doesn't sound feasible, but for those who want to try it, go for it.
Actually, if you think about it, you would not have to do 20 mile days every day with a 65 pound pack. You would only have to average 20 mile days with a pack that averages about 35 pounds. Think about it...
Lets assume you only wanted to do a 12 - 15 mile day to start with with your 65 pound pack - and people realistically do those. That means in that section you would have to do some over 20 mile days - which people also do.
Also, lets say you start with a RayJardine style base of 8 pounds (I say you gotta start low base if this is going to work) - BUT since you are going to start with a 50 pound food bag, you are going to have to have a slightly better pack to haul it - so your base is going to go up another 2.5 pounds to about a 10.5 pound base. And then you carry 2-4 pounds of water, and 1/2 pound of fuel (back up) then rely on a small hobo stove as part of your system so you don't have to carry a lot of fuel either. . So your base of 10.5 + 4.5 = 15 pounds. Add your 50 pound food bag, and now you leave town with 65 pounds of pack - so only do 15 mile days for the start. By the 5th day out you are down to a 55 pound pack - so do now you can start to make 17 mile days. By the end of the 10th day you are down to a 45 pound pack - and you can bump up to 20 mile days since you are lighter and have a good set of trail legs by now. By the end of the 15th day you are down to a 35 pound pack and can do some 23 mile days. By the end of the 20th day you are down to a 25 pound pack and get the mileage up to 25 mile days. And by the time you get to town on the 25th day you are down to a weight of 15 pounds (or less if you are about out of water) and have just finished 500 miles.
So it COULD be done, I just wouldn't want to be the guy to do it. Sounds about as fun as being a purist.
Lone Wolf
11-26-2006, 11:01
Ray Jardine ain't no backpacker.
SGT Rock
11-26-2006, 11:05
At least he doesn't carry one of those Nalgen bottles. Nalgens are for wimps.
Lone Wolf
11-26-2006, 11:13
What's a Nalgen?. I have a Nalgene with wonderful PC stickers all over it. Jardine doesn't amount to a zit on real backpacker's ass.
SGT Rock
11-26-2006, 11:19
You know, come to think of it - if you are allowed 5 resupply points then it is even a little easier...
Lets say your start doesn't count, and your feast at the end of the trail is also not included. And you plan on making this an endurance feat anyway...
So you get 5 and the trail is 2160 miles (for easy math) you can resupply at 360mi, 720 mi, 1080mi, 1440mi, 1800mi, and that last one takes you to 2160. So you only need 360 miles of food at a shot. If you do 100 miles per week, that comes to 25 days for each section. So your mileage only has to average about 14.5 mpd with a start weight of 65 pounds for each section and an average weight of just 40 pounds per day.
Couldn't most hikers average 14.5 miles per day with an average pack weight of 40 pounds?
SGT Rock
11-26-2006, 11:20
He is just like you. Has no poles ;)
Jack Tarlin
11-26-2006, 13:19
Hey Wolf, considering how rough you are on me when I dare to mention that certain prominent folks aren't exactly "real" backpackers.....well, you're awful tough on Mr. Jardine, no? :D
halftime
11-26-2006, 13:40
Actually, if you think about it, you would not have to do 20 mile days every day with a 65 pound pack. You would only have to average 20 mile days with a pack that averages about 35 pounds. Think about it...
Seems logical to me. Can also see how the sport of long distance hiking could benifit in the long run.
Since a pack system for this type of hike would have to accomodate highly variable weight and bulk, could see some new technology in pack systems emerging (perhaps a light weight external frame system?).
Can also imagine some further advances in hydration technology or food and nutrition (high calorie to weight ratio, etc).
Certainly this is not a practical thing to consider for hiking the AT where supply points are close together and easily accessible, but some advances like this could open possibility for more folks to hike the CDT or other long trails where supply points are few and far between. Could also reduce the motivation to overdevelop a trail like the CDT with alot of comercial infrastructure along its corridor.
Just some thoughts.
mweinstone
11-26-2006, 13:45
im confused. i understand your willing to walk with your head up your ass but does that really counterbalence the weight of the 100 lb food bag? cause thats how much id need. and how do you see?
halftime
11-26-2006, 13:58
im confused. i understand your willing to walk with your head up your ass but does that really counterbalence the weight of the 100 lb food bag? cause thats how much id need. and how do you see?
Clever post. Not very kind but clever.....and entertaining. Since you brought it up, I can understand where your confusion is coming from. If someone is a complete ass to begin with they would have no head with which to think nor vision with which to see anything in the foreseeable future.
Something like about seven men set out to cross a large desert, with only the clothes on their backs - their prison garb - and carrying one drinking cup for water between them. If I recall correctly, all but two made it.
There is no doubt in my mind that this hike can be done. BUT, to do it requires the proper motivation and perseverance, which would include an utter disregard for discomfort and long-term health implications. In other words, the hiker is approaching survival thinking; this isn't to be a fun trip.
This thread reminds me of a western U.S. desert park where all the snake bites have been sustained by males, below the age of (I think it’s) 18 years. The rangers explain this skewed statistical anomaly as, “testosterone poisoning.”
I consider the famous low pack weight advertised for Ray Jardine to be something of a fraud. When someone first told me some guy thru-hiked the AT carrying a pack weighing only whatever his weighed, I objected that this wouldn’t be possible. Then the story-teller realized Jardine’s weight didn’t include his food.
I bought the Jardine book.
The hiker who related the amazing Jardine pack weight had also ignored the second Jardine, his wife; they split and shared equipment. Had each been self sufficient, as if each was a solo hiker, their average pack weight would have increased substantially.
I compared my and their equipment and pack weights. I was quite thrilled how closely the weight of my equipment list compared with the “Jardine combined list.” My thrill faded quickly, with the realization there was little new information I could use to reduce my pack weight significantly.
If you wish to test my assertion, inventory and weigh your equipment. Compare your inventory with the list given for either Jardine. Add the weight of everything you’d need which was only carried by the other Jardine.
Not surprisingly I prefer my list. I’m unwilling to make some of the compromises they accept. I’m not close to the ounce weenies they are.
My point is, don’t just add the advertised Jardine pack weight to the mix, when considering an AT “Death March.” Come to terms with, and weigh, what YOU will actually NEED to do this.
You also need to factor in, as your nutritional deficit increases, your perseverance will diminish.
gardenville
11-26-2006, 14:46
Seems logical to me. Can also see how the sport of long distance hiking could benifit in the long run.
halftime,
It is nice to see a few here post in a constructive manner. To the others, well, we see your posts all the time and come to expect what you always seem to live up to.
I have been making my own External Frame's and Pack Bags for some time now. I am working on a new External Frame and Bag system for my AT hike in 2007. The current frame version, made for what I consider a heavy load, weighs 22 ounces. It would be nice to see a New Technology "Lighter External Frame" and Bag system made by one of the big commercial pack makers. I talked to Jansport about a lighter external frame but was told not anytime soon.
I am on a liquid diet. Part of the side effects from throat cancer. I can't "pig-out" in town. In fact I eat almost "0" real food. So in planning a Thru-Hike I was going to have to mail my Dry Ensure ahead and that means a lot of food drops. In my early planning I started to look at resupply every 8 to 10 days or where ever the AT went through a town or place that I could do a mail drop to.
My Dry Ensue is 125 calories per ounces and the Hammer Perpetuem is 123 calories per ounce. The average AT Hiker would be hard pressed to get the nutritional benefit from what they commonly eat over what I will get from what I eat. The combination of the Ensure and the Hammer Perpetuem will fuel my hike very well. I need about 1.5 pounds of my dry stuff a day. Add that to my Super Ultra Light gear list and I am under 45 pounds total, day one of each new 22 to 23 day section with 5 food loads.
Why do it on the AT, why not. The AT is a tough trail at best but a great training trail for other longer hikes. It is also easy to get on and of for testing new gear and different food ideas.
More and more wild areas are being opened and new trails are being planned all the time. The extension of the AT into Newfoundland is one. Long remote sections of new trail to hike.
Blissful
11-26-2006, 15:44
Wow. (!)
Well I sure hope you can do it. What a great testimony it would be to those who have done the trail after suffering adverse conditions. Now that I would even write a Guinness book for! Means so much more too. :)
Lone Wolf
11-26-2006, 22:23
It can't be done. It won't be done. The first 2 maybe.
hey wolf it can be done andrew skurka had it figured where he could go between 700 - 800 miles on 1st leg starting with a 65-70 lb pack..I guess you gonna say he is a liar or not a good hiker or something derogitory as usual.I guess he is a candy ass as well..huh?:-? :rolleyes: I dont think he intended to go the entire way but to see how far and how fast with no resupply..so it is feasible that someone can and will do it in 3-5 stops..we cant all be SUPER HIKER..like you wolf:D
fiddlehead
11-26-2006, 23:15
After Brian Robinson and Squeaky, I don't see how Lone Wolf says it CAN'T be done. It probably won't be done. But sure it CAN.
Thousands of Runners run 100 miles a day on potatoes, and drinks and soup. These foods can be lightweight. Throw in a fishing rod and a wildcrafter in springtime with edible plants abundant. No need to carry water or fuel on the AT (using a zip stove or hobo stove) and packweight comes way down.
I've seen Hindu pilgrims in Nepal going a 1000 miles with nothing but a shawl. sure they had handouts but i've also seen some excellent yogis on the AT. Bring in a dog or two as pets which can be eaten and a few other things your imagination can surely come up with and it isn't so hard. (is dumpster diving allowed?) There's no hurry anyway.
The only real hurdle i see is the person. Who would want to? probably not anyone i know. But make it a worthwhile challenge (say a million dollars or a "never have to work again" reward, and you'll have lots of people trying.
Blissful
11-27-2006, 00:26
It can't be done. It won't be done. The first 2 maybe.
L. Wolf at 6,000 plus posts...there's something that was (ahem) done! whoowee. Talk about mind over matter. ha ha
Besides that...
Honestly I don't know how a blind man could hike the trail.
I don't know how I'll do it.
But I like the saying - where there's a will, there's a way.
And the idea this man who has conquered throat cancer, can only take liquids and now wants to do the trail - wow, go for it! And I really hope you make it all the way.
SGT Rock
11-27-2006, 04:01
I consider the famous low pack weight advertised for Ray Jardine to be something of a fraud. When someone first told me some guy thru-hiked the AT carrying a pack weighing only whatever his weighed, I objected that this wouldn’t be possible. Then the story-teller realized Jardine’s weight didn’t include his food.
I bought the Jardine book.
The hiker who related the amazing Jardine pack weight had also ignored the second Jardine, his wife; they split and shared equipment. Had each been self sufficient, as if each was a solo hiker, their average pack weight would have increased substantially.
I compared my and their equipment and pack weights. I was quite thrilled how closely the weight of my equipment list compared with the “Jardine combined list.” My thrill faded quickly, with the realization there was little new information I could use to reduce my pack weight significantly.
If you wish to test my assertion, inventory and weigh your equipment. Compare your inventory with the list given for either Jardine. Add the weight of everything you’d need which was only carried by the other Jardine.
Yes his packing list and his book does have holes in it. He recommends carrying rain gear in addition to an umbrella for windy conditions, but then doesn't have any on his list. He also has a water purification system but doesn't recommend using one. He also says he has a stove but never discusses it - just how to cook with a fire. He also says the best foods for nutrition are raw, but then he also says he tried hiking with a raw food diet and it didn't work. There are more examples of that sort of inconsistency. But the combined equipment list really isn't as big a deal as you make it out to be. He carries the large tarp and quilt for two people. If he were to go solo he could carry smaller versions of both of those - then get the extra stuff he needs from Jenny's pack to get him ready for his solo hike. Her pack weight is lower than his. Also add to that his gear list was made a few years ago and some of his stuff was made with older materials - his tarp is a lot heavier then, than it would be now if he made it with sil-nylon.
But besides that, a lot of people hike sub 8 these days. I did a hike with a sub 5 pound once - and did fine. But I wasn't at my level of comfort and wouldn't stay that way. Right now my base for this sort of hiking is slightly under 10 - but my pack could also handle the loads of food at that weight. But the point of this thread was not to play packing list one-up games, it was about re-supply/mileage strategy.
Not surprisingly I prefer my list. I’m unwilling to make some of the compromises they accept. I’m not close to the ounce weenies they are.
Aren't we all. No two packing lists are ever alike.
My point is, don’t just add the advertised Jardine pack weight to the mix, when considering an AT “Death March.” Come to terms with, and weigh, what YOU will actually NEED to do this.
Again - the point of my posts were not to come up with a packing list of what to carry, it was to illustrate that you could still have a normal pack weight and have gear that would get you through a thru-hike. Using the RJ sub 8 pack as a comment that the gear was possible was never meant to be an endorsement of RJ or to be the purpose of the discussion. The purpose was the re-supply/mileage strategy.
You also need to factor in, as your nutritional deficit increases, your perseverance will diminish.
That is why in an earlier post I said this hiker would probably want to spend two weeks at each re-supply point eating before they moved on.
I say "do it with NO re-supplies"
How? you ask. Simple: 5 ~ 80 Lb packs = 400 Lbs. Subtract 5 Lbs per pack for pack wt, and 20 Lbs for "Other" stuff, still allows you 355 Lbs for food.
Start by carring pack #1 up the trail 1 to 2 miles. Walk back to start, carry pack #2 to Pack #1's location. Repete till all packs are together again. Miles hiked for the day @ 2 MPT = 18. AT miles covered = 2. Doing so would make you the first absolutly pure AT thru hiker, you would never have to leave the trail, for anything. Only get water when you cross a stream, set up camp ON the trail.
Just think of the bragging rights!
Of course, it would likely take about 1090 days to do a thru, so that means more food needed, so, lets say 2 more packs, so 4 more round trips (at least at the start) so longer to hike so more food so longer to hike so, , , , , , ,
Nevermind!
Welll, one could always try the method Amundson employed getting to the South Pole but with fellow hikers instead of dogs. That would eliminate any need for resupply!
:banana
tarbender
11-27-2006, 13:15
Baltimore Jack has been many times heard saying the following, "Kill the wounded, eat the dead, and divide the gear!" One could easily thru hike without a resupply. There are plenty of wounded along the way. I have given up all hope of any further serious comment emerging from this thread.
boston..well things took a turn for the worse...and also I am expecting my 1st grandbaby..so its off till proubly 08 sometime:mad: ..have to see if things swing back in my favor..but I am still planning:)
halftime
11-27-2006, 18:45
andrew skurka had it figured where he could go between 700 - 800 miles on 1st leg starting with a 65-70 lb pack..I dont think he intended to go the entire way but to see how far and how fast with no resupply..so it is feasible that someone can and will do it in 3-5 stops..
Ryan Jordon has done similar research on going 500-600 unsupported miles across the arctic tundra.
http://www.ryanjordan.com/2006_arctic/2006/06/on_food_and_coo.html
well demetri coupounas hiked the 482 mile colorado trail without resupply..and in july roman dial went 600 miles of alaskan widerness without..and for andrew skukas projections he figured 55lbs food and 15lbs for other gear for a total of 70lbs and his projections were a low of 709 miles and a high of 872 miles ..so realisticly it could be done with only 2 resupplies:-? dont get me wrong it would take a special, very disiplined, stong hiker...such as skurka to do it ..but yes it can be done
halftime
11-27-2006, 19:41
http://www.ryanjordan.com/2006_arctic/
Arctic Traverse Completed - 1000 km - No Resupply
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Arctic 1000 Expedition Completes First Unsupported* Traverse of America's Largest and Most Remote Contiguous Wilderness, Visits America's Remotest Spot En Route
Bozeman, Mont. (July 11, 2006) - On July 4, a team of long distance trekkers completed the first and longest ever unsupported* trekking traverse of America's most remote, roadless, uninhabited wilderness, a distance of 1000 km (600 mi) across Alaska's western Arctic region from the Chukchi Sea to the Alaskan Pipeline.
En route, in addition to completing America's longest wilderness traverse, the party became the first to visit the most remote location in the U.S. by fair means - carrying all of their gear, food, and supplies for the entirety of the trek in their backpacks and traveling entirely on foot.
Seems logical to me. Can also see how the sport of long distance hiking could benifit in the long run.
Ah...but that's the crux of this whole discussion: Is LD hiking a sport? For most people..no.
For people who want to hike w/o a resupply, yes.
Different strokes for different folks. But, it is now getting to the point where I swear people are making up "firsts" just to get a blurb in a magazine.
First AT thru-hike w/o a resupply on a pogo stick..all using XYZ Gear!
I think that is the real reason for alll these new "records". To sell schwag.
(Mind you, I am not talking about speed records....but the newly created "records" that seem to come out of nowhere...)
halftime
11-27-2006, 23:20
Ah...but that's the crux of this whole discussion: Is LD hiking a sport? For most people..no.MagsThanks for sharing your perspective on this. I actually hesitated to use the term sport. Curious how you would define it. As an Art? Philosophy? Or just let it stand on its own term?My point was (regardless of the motivation behind something like this) there would likely be some advancements in technology or new inovation that would be of universal benifit. Better Food and Nutrition might be one.BTW: Congrats on completing your CDT journey. I enjoyed viewing the photos.</p>
MagsThanks for sharing your perspective on this. I actually hesitated to use the term sport. Curious how you would define it. As an Art? Philosophy? Or just let it stand on its own term?Sounds like an interesting thread topic/poll. Hobby, pastime, and way of life all come to mind. Sport, not so much. I'm sure some would beg to differ.
The Solemates
11-27-2006, 23:38
I think it can be done.
Gardenville laid out a schedule in post #13 that averages a little over 20 days per resupply, while hiking about 20 miles per day. At 1.5 pounds of food per day, which is easily attainable in my opinion, food would weigh in at around 30lbs. If you use lightweight gear, a pack weight of 40-45 lbs is attainable. Doing 20-mile days with 40-45 pounds is not incomprehensible, especially if you hike in the summer and your diet is supplemented with town food at every opportunity.
It's not as hard as it sounds. But then again, why?
that would be something to watch..what a thread...how about MS on a pogo stick thread:eek: :D doin a yo-yo:banana with mweinstoned and lone wolf as support...just kidding :D
I think it's nuts, and can't see walking within spitting distance of a PO, store or hostel carrying 2 lbs of food much less 40 lbs.
YMMV
halftime
12-06-2006, 23:05
halftime,
I have been making my own External Frame's and Pack Bags for some time now. I am working on a new External Frame and Bag system for my AT hike in 2007. The current frame version, made for what I consider a heavy load, weighs 22 ounces. It would be nice to see a New Technology "Lighter External Frame" and Bag system made by one of the big commercial pack makers. I talked to Jansport about a lighter external frame but was told not anytime soon.
Gardenville: Was browsing through the pictures gallery and stumbled onto photos of your external pack systems. Quite impressive. Best of luck with your 07 hike.
Squeaky 2
12-09-2006, 08:38
this is very interesting!!!! one of my many thoughts and mad ideas i came up with in 2005 ( i had alot of time to think!!) was to hike the whole trail with out resupply. to do the entire trail with what you start out with on your back. with ultralight gear it would be possible. but you would have to factor in a heavy duty pack to deal with the heavy early loads. before people jump on my back and say that cant be done bear in mind that my training over here for the sub forty consists of a 65lb which i hike with at 5mph on the river tow paths and well over 4 mph cross country with a 50lb+ pack. running the up hills. one day was 45 miles in under 10 hours.
not to mention mountain sherpas who carry 180lb loads?!!!
maybe it could be worth cosidering after the flack of doing a supported sub 40!
I think I would have to park myself along the Trail somewhere to watch you hike on by.
I promise that I woluld resit the temptaion to hold out a candybar in my outstretched hand :)
Whatever you elect to do on your next adventure I am sure it will be something cool.
I hope its on the AT!
Rick B
this is very interesting!!!! one of my many thoughts and mad ideas i came up with in 2005 ( i had alot of time to think!!) was to hike the whole trail with out resupply. to do the entire trail with what you start out with on your back. with ultralight gear it would be possible. but you would have to factor in a heavy duty pack to deal with the heavy early loads. before people jump on my back and say that cant be done bear in mind that my training over here for the sub forty consists of a 65lb which i hike with at 5mph on the river tow paths and well over 4 mph cross country with a 50lb+ pack. running the up hills. one day was 45 miles in under 10 hours.
not to mention mountain sherpas who carry 180lb loads?!!!
maybe it could be worth cosidering after the flack of doing a supported sub 40!Best of luck to you! That is some hard-core training, no doubt. Hope to be hearing of any plans soon.:sun
After Brian Robinson and Squeaky, I don't see how Lone Wolf says it CAN'T be done. It probably won't be done. But sure it CAN.
Thousands of Runners run 100 miles a day on potatoes, and drinks and soup. These foods can be lightweight. Throw in a fishing rod and a wildcrafter in springtime with edible plants abundant. No need to carry water or fuel on the AT (using a zip stove or hobo stove) and packweight comes way down.
You can't finish the AT in one season and still fish or forage for edible plants for your dinner. Get serious. FWIW, this thread is going on in parallel over at backpackinglight.com, and someone calculated packs of around 70 lbs would be needed, containing 65 lbs of food, coupled with daily mileages of around 35-40 mpd. To quote Garcia/Hunter: I don't know whose back's that strong...
warraghiyagey
12-10-2006, 03:28
Like some of the others have wondered - what would be the point? Is being on the trail about raising the bar? Adding aspects that detract from the experience? Did I miss something?
"Sorry, it's beautiful here but I can't stay because Harper's Ferry is still 16 days away and that's exactly how many days of food I have left. Guess I'll be moving on but you folks have a great hike. Oh and thanks for the offer of the oreos but I don't want my body to get used to the slightest extra. It could ruin my whole plan."
Hmmmmmmmm. . . . . . . . .
Like some of the others have wondered - what would be the point? Is being on the trail about raising the bar? Adding aspects that detract from the experience? Did I miss something?
"Sorry, it's beautiful here but I can't stay because Harper's Ferry is still 16 days away and that's exactly how many days of food I have left. Guess I'll be moving on but you folks have a great hike. Oh and thanks for the offer of the oreos but I don't want my body to get used to the slightest extra. It could ruin my whole plan."
Hmmmmmmmm. . . . . . . . .
If your talking about Squeaky, it's about the challenge and setting the record. He is the one that did the triple crown and set the new record by doing all three trails end to end in about seven months.
If you are not talking about Squeaky, disregard this post. :D
warraghiyagey
12-10-2006, 05:18
I haven't heard of squeeky until now but all those trails in seven months? That's impressive.
I'll be ecstatic if I thru the AT and find my way home in that amount of time. And I wouldn't begrudge that part of the challenge but I'll bet the AT portion of that journey didn't include just 4 re-supplies and endless long days with over 40 pounds of just food.
This story of squeeky's feat reminds me of this guy we met at Hurd Brook lean-to. It's the first out of Baxter St.Pk. This guy rolls in and rolls out while the rest of us are setting up for the night. He had just finished the PTC and was starting the AT (June 29th 06). He was wearing running shoes and carrying his pack over one shoulder. He was gone so fast we gave his breeze the name Super Dave. I'm sure he finished the AT by the time I hit Dalton. And by the looks of his rather svelte pack, the 4 stop re-supply wasn't on his radar.
Could this Super Dave be Squeeky?
Peace :) :) :)
I haven't heard of squeeky until now but all those trails in seven months? That's impressive.
I'll be ecstatic if I thru the AT and find my way home in that amount of time. And I wouldn't begrudge that part of the challenge but I'll bet the AT portion of that journey didn't include just 4 re-supplies and endless long days with over 40 pounds of just food.
This story of squeeky's feat reminds me of this guy we met at Hurd Brook lean-to. It's the first out of Baxter St.Pk. This guy rolls in and rolls out while the rest of us are setting up for the night. He had just finished the PTC and was starting the AT (June 29th 06). He was wearing running shoes and carrying his pack over one shoulder. He was gone so fast we gave his breeze the name Super Dave. I'm sure he finished the AT by the time I hit Dalton. And by the looks of his rather svelte pack, the 4 stop re-supply wasn't on his radar.
Could this Super Dave be Squeeky?
Peace :) :) :)
Probably not. He was going to hike the trail (sub 40 challenge) but had a foot injury and called i off the first week of June.
This is a pic of Squeaky.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=11364&catid=searchresults&searchid=5885
I've got to chime in with the doubters. Plus, a point that's been missed: this is far, far from the idea of the trail as proposed by Benton MacKaye. It wasn't meant as a place for competition and one-upmanship. It was meant to be exactly the opposite of that.
The worst day I ever had on the trail was the day I first met Ward Leonard, coming off the humps north of Roan. As soon as I understood Ward's "mission," it just pissed me off. It wasn't even his loathsome personality -- it was what he was doing with the trail. Different strokes, I suppose, but that's how I see it.
The trail was meant as a place to get away from the rat race. It wasn't meant to be a rat race.
I've got to chime in with the doubters. Plus, a point that's been missed: this is far, far from the idea of the trail as proposed by Benton MacKaye. It wasn't meant as a place for competition and one-upmanship. It was meant to be exactly the opposite of that.
It's all about what your motivations are.
Why do people run the Boston marathon? Seems kind of boring to me but that is what they are motivated to do and who the hell am I to judge them?
It's all about what your motivations are.
Why do people run the Boston marathon?
I don't think it's a good analogy. Read the original article (by MacKaye) in which the trail idea was proposed. You can find it online, it's a short read. Read MacKaye's biography. I'm not saying he's a saint or a role model -- but you could do far worse. I think, to MacKaye, even the notion of thru hiking might have been alien. Consider the poetry and spirit of Myron Avery's description of the trail..
“Remote for detachment, narrow for chosen company, winding for leisure, lonely for contemplation, it beckons not merely north and south but upward to the body, mind and soul of man.”
There's something about speed-hiking, record-breaking, Ray Jardine, Flyin' Brian stuff that strikes me as seriously bogus. To each his own, I 'spose.
To quote Garcia/Hunter: I don't know whose back's that strong...
Maybe find out before too long...
I don't think it's a good analogy. Read the original article (by MacKaye) in which the trail idea was proposed. You can find it online, it's a short read. Read MacKaye's biography. I'm not saying he's a saint or a role model -- but you could do far worse. I think, to MacKaye, even the notion of thru hiking might have been alien. Consider the poetry and spirit of Myron Avery's description of the trail..
“Remote for detachment, narrow for chosen company, winding for leisure, lonely for contemplation, it beckons not merely north and south but upward to the body, mind and soul of man.”
There's something about speed-hiking, record-breaking, Ray Jardine, Flyin' Brian stuff that strikes me as seriously bogus. To each his own, I 'spose.
"it beckons not merely north and south but upward to the body, mind and soul of man."
So if the personal physical challenge is what the trail represents to the speed hiker in his or her mind, body and soul, then who are we to criticize.
warraghiyagey
12-10-2006, 12:24
I see everyone's point including Austex's but to say that the lure of the trail doesn't include the spiritual allure well - are the people that see it just as a physical challenge or a record to be broken, are they unaware of what MacKaye saw? Or all the years I dreamed to hike the trail before I finally made the opportunity.
Maybe the "spiritual" thing isn't the only reason, but from the people I've met it had a predominance in their reason's for being there. It meant so much to me to finally be there and as I left Katahdin at the end of June the first groups of NOBOs we met hated the trail. Yes they used that word repeatedly, at these beautiful areas in nature. They hated the trail, they hated hiking, they just wanted to get it done and get it over with.
As my friends and I discussed these numerous meetings about these guys that seemed to have been racing each other since Springer and were angry because they'd lost the 'first one to Katadhin' race, we were shaken, wondering if we would be that miserable by the end of the trail.
I couldn't believe that is what the trail would turn me into.
So yes, the first few days of living my dream on the beautiful trail included being around these angry alpha-bull hikers who couldn't have conceived that just because they hated the trail, that didn't mean they had to stomp about camp destroying the sanctity of other's experience, some who were spending their first nights on the trail they dreamed of for years.
So yeah, the concept of racing each other the length of the trail and trying to break records seems foreign at best.
With that said, the people who ratchet up the challenge of the AT or any of the trails because they have that something extra within them, it seemed to coincide with their eventual 'hatred' of the whole experience and that is a cost that is simply to high to be paid out by those who dreamed a lifetime about that one space in time that they got to walk the Appalachian Trail.
"it beckons not merely north and south but upward to the body, mind and soul of man."
So if the personal physical challenge is what the trail represents to the speed hiker in his or her mind, body and soul, then who are we to criticize.
You have a point. Like I said -- even a "simple" thru hike is way beyond what Benton had in mind. What I mostly resent is the competition implicit in all these record-setting activities, which (IMNSHO) is quite out of place on the trail. Do it somewhere else.
OTOH, it's almost impossible to avoid that competition entirely, so much of it is bred into us from childhood. Think about the kinds of conversations thru-hikers have at camp, during the first few weeks out of Springer. Everyone's trying to gauge whether they're going "fast enough," or at least, faster than the other guy. They're rationalizing their equipment choices, and their training.
Maybe if I were a bit smarter, I'd have learned to ignore all that silliness. It was one of the things that drove me off the trail eventually, and one of the reasons I'm a lot happier doing long section hikes.
Lone Wolf
12-10-2006, 15:42
Speed hikers compete with nobody but themselves. Thru-hikers compete with each other. Speed hiking has 0 impact on the AT.
Speed hikers compete with nobody but themselves. Thru-hikers compete with each other. Speed hiking has 0 impact on the AT.
You know how some folks are offended by the mere presence of cell phones on the trail -- even if they're not personally impacted by them? I feel the same way about speed hikers. The very idea of it troubles me.
And I'm not so sure you're right. Speed hiking creates a meme, and as such, it infects the entire hiking community. It's not enough to walk the trail. There is this underlying need to do it in some way that's never been done before. It all started with Earl Shaffer. Let's blame him.
IMO, the schlubs who drive up from Paramus for an overnight at O'Brien shelter, with their hot dogs and marshmallows and Coleman lanterns -- are closer to what MacKaye had in mind than all the speed hikers put together.
saimyoji
12-10-2006, 16:26
You know how some folks are offended by the mere presence of cell phones on the trail -- even if they're not personally impacted by them? I feel the same way about speed hikers. The very idea of it troubles me.
Does the idea of foot long hotdogs trouble you? You need to get over your insecurities and recognise that there are people out there doing things, despite (in spite of?) the intentions of so called 'founders' wherever you go. Tell them they can't do it, makes 'em want to do it that much more. :eek:
Don't take my response personally: I'd say the same things to anyone who said the idea of carrying a cell phone, or hiking fast, bothered them. Just how fast is too fast for you? :-?
Go Squeeky. :banana:banana
Just how fast is too fast for you? :-?
Anyone faster than me. Which is just about everyone. :D
There's competition everywhere you go in America. Marathons, triathlons, Iron Man, 10K runs, century rides, NFL, NBA, blah blah & ad nauseum. The AT was meant as a refuge from all that. Take away MacKaye's spirit, and it's just a long scar in the woods.
Lone Wolf
12-10-2006, 16:43
You know how some folks are offended by the mere presence of cell phones on the trail -- even if they're not personally impacted by them? I feel the same way about speed hikers. The very idea of it troubles me.
And I'm not so sure you're right. Speed hiking creates a meme, and as such, it infects the entire hiking community. It's not enough to walk the trail. There is this underlying need to do it in some way that's never been done before. It all started with Earl Shaffer. Let's blame him.
IMO, the schlubs who drive up from Paramus for an overnight at O'Brien shelter, with their hot dogs and marshmallows and Coleman lanterns -- are closer to what MacKaye had in mind than all the speed hikers put together.
What's a meme? You're the first person that I know of, other than Wingfoot, that is really bothered by speed/record/fast hikers. They're doing thier own thing. You do yours. I don't get it.
And why are people "schlubs" for wanting to get out for a night on the trail. You're sounding elitist.
What's a meme? You're the first person that I know of, other than Wingfoot, that is really bothered by speed/record/fast hikers. They're doing thier own thing. You do yours. I don't get it.
And why are people "schlubs" for wanting to get out for a night on the trail. You're sounding elitist.
Memes: seeds of ideas. "unit of cultural information transferable from one mind to another." [Wikipedia]
Contempt for schlubs: Sorry, I think you missed my point. Those folks from Paramus were exactly the sort of folks that Benton wanted the trail to serve. That was my point.
Competition: Read Benton's 1921 article. You may not take it seriously, but I do. Specifically:
“The camp community is a sanctuary and a refuge from the scramble of every-day worldly commercial life. It is in essence a retreat from profit. Cooperation replaces antagonism, trust replaces suspicion, emulation replaces competition." [italics mine]
Lone Wolf
12-10-2006, 17:03
Speed hikers aren't part of the "camp community". They don't camp on the trail. They're just walking the trail.
There's competition everywhere you go in America. Marathons, triathlons, Iron Man, 10K runs, century rides, NFL, NBA, blah blah & ad nauseum. The AT was meant as a refuge from all that. Take away MacKaye's spirit, and it's just a long scar in the woods.
For the average person, a marathon, triathalon, etc. is not about competing. It is about setting a goal and accomplishing it. The camraderie during a race is great, too. Very few people can hope to win a marathon..many people can accomplish this goal and feel great about it.
I did not do the NYC Marathon to be competitive. I did it because 2 of my good friends were in it (one was a NYC native, one went to school there and spent much time there growing up), was a great way to experience NYC (on foot!) and provided a weekend that was awesome.
Can't say I did it to beat anyone..I did it for me.
In the same way, on my thru-hikes, I was out there not for anyone but myself. To experience nature,the community, the journey itself.
"Hike your own hike" does not mean "Hike you own hike, but my way is better".
I may not understand someone's motivation (sorry, still can't fathom doing the AT without a town stop for a burger and beer! :D), but their motivation is not my motivation. Their hike is not my hike. I am hiking my hike...they are hiking theirs.
Ultimatley, a person has to do what is enjoyable for them. And not cast stones upon people who may be doing something different.
As for Mackaye..a quote by him sums it up best for the purpose of the AT:
"There are three things: to walk, to see, and to see what you see."
Anything else is just talking about thru-hikers on the head of a pin.
As for Mackaye..a quote by him sums it up best for the purpose of the AT:
"There are three things: to walk, to see, and to see what you see."
By that standard, is Brian Robinson's accomplishment any more significant than your own?
SGT Rock
12-11-2006, 09:10
Flag poles were not intended to be sat on by the creators, bowling pins were not created for juggling, trampolines were not made for seeing how many thousands of times you could jump up and down on them, bungie cords were not created for bridge jumping...
Even if Benton McKaye didn't envision people hiking the entire trail or speed hiking, it doesn't matter. Getting bent up about it is like getting bent up about some teenagers seeing how many people they can fit in a Volkswagon.
There are better things to worry about or get bent up about.
There are better things to worry about or get bent up about.
I agree. OTOH, I don't swoon in admiration for superjocks.
The trail was created with a far more noble purpose than bowling pins, trampolines and bungee cords. The attention given to the superjocks detracts from and perverts that purpose.
As far as I'm concerned, the problem is much wider and more general than just the A.T. It's a problem with our society in general, and my regret is that the A.T. is not immune to it, though some dreamers (like Benton) hoped it might be.
Lone Wolf
12-11-2006, 09:45
I think you're jealous of speed hikers. Nothing else could explain your hatred.
Squeaky 2
12-11-2006, 09:49
what are you on about terrapin too?
what is the difference between a 47 day thru hike and a 147 day thru hike. its just one person in the woods getting his or her enjoyment from the AT.
SGT Rock
12-11-2006, 09:54
I agree. OTOH, I don't swoon in admiration for superjocks.
The trail was created with a far more noble purpose than bowling pins, trampolines and bungee cords. The attention given to the superjocks detracts from and perverts that purpose.
As far as I'm concerned, the problem is much wider and more general than just the A.T. It's a problem with our society in general, and my regret is that the A.T. is not immune to it, though some dreamers (like Benton) hoped it might be.
Dynamite started with a noble intention, it got misused a hell of a lot more than a few people trying to go fast on the AT. Blowing other people up is a whole lot more sad than some people walking faster than others.
Don't waste negative emotions on what you cannot control - or they will control you.
what are you on about terrapin too?
what is the difference between a 47 day thru hike and a 147 day thru hike. its just one person in the woods getting his or her enjoyment from the AT.
See my response to Mags. I don't "hate" speed hikers. HYOH and all that.
Lone Wolf
12-11-2006, 09:56
[QUOTE= HYOH and all that.[/QUOTE]
If you REALLY felt that way you wouldn't keep harping on it.:)
Squeaky 2
12-11-2006, 10:00
its post 84 that you see it as being a problem
I'm quite aware that mine is a minority opinion. That doesn't make it wrong ;).
SGT Rock
12-11-2006, 10:10
It doesn't mean what you feel is necessarily "wrong" but it is something that you cannot change nor is it something that will affect the trail - other than maybe some (very few) people's concept of the trail. For the vast majority of hikers even the idea of a thru-hike is a weird thing.
It doesn't mean what you feel is necessarily "wrong" but it is something that you cannot change nor is it something that will affect the trail - other than maybe some (very few) people's concept of the trail. For the vast majority of hikers even the idea of a thru-hike is a weird thing.
I agree with most of that, Sarge. There are lots of things in this world that I can neither change nor ignore. As the old saw goes, "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention."
I didn't start this thread, but it does touch on one of my pet peeves, and so I felt a need to register my opinion. That's about the extent of it.
By that standard, is Brian Robinson's accomplishment any more significant than your own?
I am not going to get into that game. :-)
Not once did I say someone's accomplishment was "better" or "worse" than mine.
I would hope after your hike you feel the same, too.
Not once did I say someone's accomplishment was "better" or "worse" than mine.
Don't be silly. I didn't ask if it was "better" or "worse." I asked it it was any more significant -- based on those fine words from MacKaye that you quoted.
fiddlehead
12-11-2006, 17:48
Terrapin too, you need to chill out. Your name suggests you are a slow hiker. Does that mean that you find it your duty to come down on fast ones? What good do you think that'll do?
I saw the thread on here asking how fast do you hike and decided not to answer because i figured some would come down on me for the speed i walk. I've been told to slow down most of my life. It hasn't happened yet. Maybe it will someday, maybe it won't........ But, it won't be because someone told me they don't like it. HYOH!
Don't be silly. I didn't ask if it was "better" or "worse." I asked it it was any more significant -- based on those fine words from MacKaye that you quoted.
Terrapin, I really don't want to get into semantics.
Sufficient to say we both enjoy hiking our way. No one's hike is any more significant or not. So re-read my post and substitute significant where it is appropriate.
If you want to get into a debate , I am perhaps the wrong person. I understand Weasle enjoys those type of posts. :)
Terrapin too, you need to chill out. Your name suggests you are a slow hiker. Does that mean that you find it your duty to come down on fast ones?
Congratulations, fiddlehead, you took the hint from my trail name. :D I'm a slow hiker and I make no bones about that. The issue isn't about the speed of hiking. It's about turning the A.T. into a sports venue. The A.T. is a proper venue for recreation. That is, indeed, its stated purpose. I don't think it's a proper venue for competitive sport.
I'm sorry, but it does bother me that folks have to carry their Type-A behavior into the backcountry. Maybe it's just me, but I go there to leave that ***** behind.
Lone Wolf
12-11-2006, 18:38
I don't think it's a proper venue for competitive [I]sport
Nobody is competing. It's man against mountain.
Nobody is competing. It's man against mountain.
Man against mountain. Hmm. Interesting. So much for "communing with nature." None of that hippy-dippy stuff for L. Wolf, I guess. ;)
So, if it's not a competition, what's the significance of 40 days? Or the 300:1 odds thing between Squeaky and Warren?
Skidsteer
12-11-2006, 20:18
So, if it's not a competition, what's the significance of 40 days? Or the 300:1 odds thing between Squeaky and Warren?
It's not 'between' Squeaky and Warren.
Squeaky had nothing to do with it and Warren isn't backing it up with cash.
Read the thread (http://art.simon.tripod.com/Stoves/).
Squeaky 2
12-12-2006, 12:52
T. Too i find recreation in aiming to hike the trail in 40 days. its my way of getting my enjoment from the AT. trust me i find it hard to believe how people enjoy going so slow.
T. Too i find recreation in aiming to hike the trail in 40 days. its my way of getting my enjoment from the AT. trust me i find it hard to believe how people enjoy going so slow.
Just out of curiousity, what is your resting heart rate and BP? Also, do you know the approximate number of calories you consume when doing a 'speed hike'?
Squeaky 2
12-12-2006, 13:12
not sure of the resting heart rate but i was needing around 7,000 calories a day in 05
SGT Rock
12-13-2006, 04:38
Lets see, I hear about one of these every two to three years. So the chances of it beoming a big time competition between hikers taking over the trail is pretty slim, and the characterization of the trail becomimg misused by speed hikers is pretty overblown if you think about it.
Anyway, who cares? This thread was about going on the AT with 3-5 resupply points, not Terrapin's personal grudge against people that hike fast.
I like a bit of variety....sometimes fun to go fast, sometimes not so fun. Sometimes prefer a quick slack, other times prefer a nice long "wilderness experience" between resupplies sometimes a blue-blaze or a bike-blaze or an aqua-blaze or a pink-blaze. The summer is loooong, why get your head all bound up with just one way of doing things before it even starts? Things change on the trail. In your head.
This thread was about going on the AT with 3-5 resupply points, not Terrapin's personal grudge against people that hike fast.
Sarge, you're complaining about thread drift? Must be a slow day. :)
This isn't about any "personal grudge." If you wanna know where I'm coming from, please take a few minutes and read that sermon I posted a couple days ago [thread title: Amazing Feats on the A.T.].
I put a lot of thought into that piece. It's a real sermon, delivered by me, in front of a real-live congregation, last June. It's about hiking, wilderness, Benton MacKaye, and the A.T.
Last I checked, it's had >200 views and only two replies. Teej said, nice piece and Wolf said, so what. Considering the effort and thought that went into it, the response has been underwhelming. Henceforth any comments by me on this subject will be confined to that thread.
SGT Rock
12-13-2006, 07:23
I think you are missing my point Terrapin. People are starting to take this thread to be about you and your opinion on speed hiking. Just trying to prevent a flame war about it.
As to your other post on another thread - I think posting and discussing that would best be done on that thread. Don't you?
Minimizing time spent on a thru need not be reserved for the hyper competitive among us. One if my objectives in backpacking is to get the hell out of town. Constantly going back in to resupply defeats that purpose. To have a lengthy wilderness experience one needs to carry lots of food, whether one walks one mile per day, or thirty. Also, as a practical matter, the less time one takes on a thru hike, the less expensive a proposition it becomes. I would think that knowing I could thru hike with minimal resupply stops, as well as the best five or six places to do it, with minimal time away from the trail, would be some of the most helpful information I could get before attempting a thru. I can stay here and eat in restaurants,sleep in motels, and shop at wally world. I want to move through the woods. Thanks to those who've posted useful info on this thread.
SGT Rock
12-13-2006, 09:07
Henceforth any comments by me on this subject will be confined to that thread.
As to your other post on another thread - I think posting and discussing that would best be done on that thread. Don't you?
Dohh! Sorry, I have been out of here for a few days and was in too big a hurry to post and not enough time to read throught the entire post. My bad - applology offered.