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Former Admin
09-18-2002, 07:39
Lyme Disease - comments, concerns, issues, experiences

Kerosene
09-19-2002, 09:13
I know that Hammock Hanger will have a lot to say about this topic. I found a few deer ticks on my legs after an early June hike in New York State. I've dealt with the bigger ticks before, but I wouldn't have recognized the ticks on me if I hadn't just purchased tick removal tweezers with a lightweight magnifying glass. Man, those suckers are small! Frankly, I don't see any way to make sure that you've gotten rid of all the ticks on your body each night, especially if they have the opportunity to get up into your hair. I'm probably less concerned about catching the disease (although it certainly would put a crimp in my other activities) as I am not catching it in time.

Former Admin
09-19-2002, 09:28
Its seems there have been more cases of lymes reported this year than others. Hammock hanger mentioned in another thread, that she heard the figure 1 out of 6 hikers this year contracted Lymes. Its just not safe out there anymore, I guess i'll just stay locked in this little one bedroom apartment :D and do my hikes in late winter early spring. I live in the Chicago area and we now have the highest concentration of west nile virus in the surronding area. People are dropping like flys, there have been 22 deaths in this area. What's with these damn bugs?

Hammock Hanger
09-19-2002, 10:00
I did hear that the hikers got hit hard this year or it could be that more doctors are actually taking it seriously and checking more. As said above the big ticks are very easy to see, I can actually feel them crawl which alerts me that they are there. The little ticks are so minute. I have freckles and they just blended in. Even if I didn't some are almost invisable. We were all doing body checks. There are just some spots on yourself you can not see. Other hikers help out but... All I can say is do the best you can, beaware of them and check, check, check. Use your deet on exposed skin during those areas of high tick population. I have some nerve damage that causes me to want to rip the skin off my left shoulder. It feels like a thousand ants are feeding on me, little bits. The doctor feels it was caused by the Lyme.

Now West Nile Virus: I'm a hiker that likes to do things big, so I went and got BOTH Lyme & West Nile. The fact that I could have been dead in 48 - 72 hours had I stayed on the trail and not gotten antibiotics before the meningitis set in really does scare me. There is just no way to not get bite by mesquitoes when living out in the woods. You can use Deet, wear long sleeves & pants but hey let's get real. I had some symptoms for over a week before I got sick but just didn't know what they were. At night I would wake and my sleeping bag would be drenched, my legs were soaked. I thought (don't laugh) I was just having a night sweat, I am at that age in my life. What it really was, was cellulitus. As the days progressed I began to lose some of my strength and stamina. I was cold. This I figured was just the temps being different in the Whites. But I was colder then everyone else, chills. I began to get headaches, which I am not prone too. Finally the night before I left the trail I awake soaking wet, nauseated with a headache around 2 am. I thought it was the flu and decided I would go into North Woodstock and sleep it off. Hiking out that morning I was feeling a little better and at the road almost decided to hike on. (I am so thankful that I didn't). I got to North Woodstock got a bed and slept for the entire day. Got up went to dinner, couldn't eat much, no appetite, queasy. Got up the next day felt better. Set up a shuttle back to the trail for early the next morning. By 6 pm I was withering in pain upstairs. I was on fire, (later I would find my temp was 104) my head was exploding, I was not totally co-herent. An ambulance was called and I was carted off. My legs were puffed up and oozing. I had a pusy bite in the crease of my left knee (I had never seen it). Too make a long story short I got the antibiotics I needed before the meningitis could take hold and KILL me. That's no joke! -- If you are hiking and experience any of these symptoms get checked out, do not be strong or macho and just deal with it yourself. Honest, I really thought it was nothing and I did almost keep hiking.... Hammock Hanger

Former Admin
09-19-2002, 10:12
How has this affected you in the long run? I have heard that some people have problems for years, and others don't. I hope your one of the don'ts.

highway
09-19-2002, 11:32
Hammock Hanger:

That is a scary post. Everyone should read it very carefully, though. I had no idea about the symptoms and, as much as I hate to learn from your pain, thank you.

I hope that you quickly, and fully, recover

Hammock Hanger
09-19-2002, 18:26
According to the various doctors in NH and my personal physician there can be problems down the line but at this stage no one has a clue. My doctor told me that it is very important that I tell all doctors of my past history with both Lyme & West Nile. Something that seems totally unrelated may still be caused by damage done. Like I said this "ITCH" that I have on my shoulder that is not responding to any medication is thought to be steming from the Lyme.

But ya know, it won't keep me from hiking. Hell I could get hit by a bus crossing the street right? Hammock Hanger

highway
09-20-2002, 14:58
HH:
Decided to post it here, too, that your contracting the double whammy was mentioned as well as other info at:
http://www.thru-hiker.com/
under topic:"Bugs, the nasty problems they might cause you".

Maybe it should be reinforced in to all of us. I am beginning to think there is definitely another advantage to the Hennessey over my silshelter-its a heck of a lot more bugproof.

Anyway, do you really think we are looking at a 1 in 6 catching it? That means if you do the AT you have a 17% chance to suffer a dibilitating and perhaps life threatening illness. Those are horrible odds, if true, but somehow I suspect it is not quite that bad. At least I really hope so. If it were and all present members(87) on this forum do a thruhike next year, then 14.4(15) get the disease. That sucks!

Hammock Hanger
09-20-2002, 17:31
Those could be the stats but... Look how many hikers were out there that didn't seem to have any problems. Of course some could have Lyme's and not even know it. As our world pollutes and the critters migrate to greener pastures, as we travel to more and more countries carrying unknown parasites home, I can only forsee more and more new diseases cropping up. All we can do is be aware, try and take precautions and work toward the cleaning up of the mess. -- Remeber you can get bite by mesquitos and ticks at home as well. HH

highway
09-20-2002, 18:17
one of six what?
If that is the figure for thru-hikers, its bad enough.
Do you think it's correct?

Hammock Hanger
09-20-2002, 21:28
Those are the figures I got from another hiker who had Lymes. Not sure where those stats came from, medical report, doctor... So at this momment it is hearsay. Did anyone on this site know Squaw and Blackhawk?? She too was very very sick with Lyme. Hammock Hanger

Dirtyoldman
09-21-2002, 12:21
There is a vaccine for lyme disease but it only works for six months. Go see your doctor pre-hike and request it along with an update to tetenis (sp)

jlb2012
09-21-2002, 20:29
I thought they withdrew the vaccine for Lyme or is this a new vaccine? The old vaccine was three shots first two a month apart and the third a year later. Considered by some to be risky in that the vaccine itself might cause health problems but I don't know why it was withdrawn.
Link : http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/vaccine.htm

highway
09-22-2002, 16:13
I vaguely remember as well that it was withdrawn, but cannot for the life of me remember the source. The damn years are beginning to accumulate upon my few brain cells!

Dirtyoldman
09-22-2002, 19:07
It appears the manufacturer did withdraw it but the cdc is still recommending it for our catagory. Maybe a generic is still around. Only way to be sure is to see your doctor.

DebW
10-03-2002, 12:22
I asked my doctor about the vaccine last year. She recommended against it. Said the AT is not one of the "endemic" area for Lyme (coastal areas are). And the disease is treatable (though knowing that you have it might be the bigger problem). Apparently it got pulled off the market because so few people were using it. That and the risk of getting sick from it.

spirit
10-23-2002, 13:33
I have been sick since September 7th and it was finally discovered I had lymes on 10/14. I had been hospitalized and had numerous blood test but it wasn't until the total body rash and the final blood test that they were able to start the treatment. I am still undergoing the treatment. I was hiking in the shenandoahs when I got lymes. I'm not sure what the stats are but we all need to be careful. My doc is looking into the vaccine I will let you all know what he finds around 11/16 when I return. He thought there was a new vaccine out.

DebW
11-01-2002, 15:47
Had anybody used Permethrin? It's an insect and tick repellent that can be applied to clothing. It's supposed to be effective for 2 weeks or more after application. I tried it on socks and pant legs last year. This year I didn't get around to treating my clothing and picked up 2 deer ticks in Connecticut. Has anybody used this stuff extensively enough to know if it is really effective?

Kerosene
11-01-2002, 16:48
I did a Google search on Permethrin and found this site (http://www.permethrin-repellent.com/) relevant to hiking bug repellents. Looks like you spray it on your clothing (not while you're wearing them!) before your hike and it lasts up to six weeks, even through repeated laundering. Also appears effective against mosquitoes and other insects.

There were a number of other sites that speak to the toxicity of Permethrin, although it seemed that most of them were related to concentrations used as direct pesticides, not the 0.5% level used for repellent. The website lists a number of commercial formulations.

Since it is applied to clothing and not the skin, you would still have an issue if you're wearing shorts or short sleeves.

MOWGLI
11-01-2002, 17:15
Many people who use permetherin spray it on their gators. I have never used it however.

Mom Lamb
11-07-2002, 03:41
For those of you who had Lyme Disease with a rash, what did your rash look like (other than a bull's eye pattern)? I mean, was it a fine, colorless rash, did it look like poison ivy, or more like chicken-pox, was it a scattered rash with large red pimple-like eruptions or something in between? Just curious...

Thanks

Jeff
11-09-2002, 08:52
I had someone tell me lyme's disease is contracted on the AT mostly in the New England area. True???? Have there been AT hikers who got lyme's in the south??

Also, I don't see the bigger ticks until June 1st or so....how about the deer tick? Are they out in the springtime??

MOWGLI
11-09-2002, 10:20
Jeff, I knew several people in 2000 who contracted Lyme in Virginia - "Dog" being one of them. I knew at least a dozen thru-hikers in 2000 that had bouts with Lyme. Many of them became ill in VT, perhaps having been bitten in NJ, NY or CT. The good news is all of them (except for 1 or 2) finished the trail. While its possible that an outdoorsy type person could actually start the trail unknowingly having already contracted Lyme, I believe the answer to your question is - YES - you can contract Lyme down south. The northeast is the epicenter for this disease however, and Dutchess County New York is a real problem area. I would recommend that any prospective thru-hiker check themselves for ticks nightly. Ratchet that vigilance up a few notches in the NJ, NY, CT area. That is sometimes easier said than done from my experience. I often arrived in camp pretty wore out. Setup, eat, crash.

BTW, its the real teeny tiny ticks that cause the Lyme disease. Some of the deer ticks I pulled off of myself were smaller than a poppy seed. I mean REALLY small. Funny thing is, the little bastards seem to get even worse in the Fall. Right about now my animals seem to pick up more ticks than at any time during the year. I guess its the big feed before the big chill.

MOWGLI
11-09-2002, 10:37
Momma Lamb: My wife contracted Lyme here in NY in '92. She had the classic bullseye rash. Concentric circles - the whole thing. Textbook case. I believe that is the exception to the rule, based on speaking to dozens of hikers who have gotten Lyme. Check for ticks, watch for unexplained rashes, but if you suddenly develop lethargy beyond being tired from hiking, joint pain, headaches that don't quit, and a fever - seek medical help ASAP. Many people that I knew on the trail who were treated for Lyme in 2000 never saw a rash. The key with Lyme is being treated quickly. If you visit a doctor in Manchester Center, VT, or any other trail town, and tell them you have headaches, joint pain and are running a fever... if they know you are thru-hiking the AT - they will in all likelyhood suspect Lyme Disease immediately. One of the problems with Lyme is that the test is very unreliable. False positives - false negatives. It's just not dependable.

FYI, some of the antibiotics that treat Lyme make you highly photosensitive. In other words - you need to stay out of the sun. A hiker buddy named "Vegas" got 2nd degree burns on his toes by falling asleep beside the trail. He was covered up except for his toes. The sunburn turned his toes black. I guess when they say stay out of the sun on some antibiotics - they mean it!

The Hog
11-30-2002, 09:53
Everyone on the AT should know that Lyme disease is only the tip of the iceberg as far as tick-borne diseases are concerned. Although the name is misleading, Rocky Mtn Spotted Fever is not uncommon in the eastern US (including states the AT traverses), and it doesn't always come with a rash. It can be fatal. Other tick-borne ailments include Erlichiosis, Babesiosis, and Q Fever. The symptoms for all of these vary, but generally include severe headache, high fever, prostration. They are also fatal in a small percentage of cases.

I was bitten by a tick on the CDT in Montana and was very lucky to be off the trail when the symptoms of Rocky Mtn Spotted Fever hit (a week later). The headache was indescribable (a migraine is a Sunday picnic in comparison). There was no rash, but the loss of appetite was total, and I was wasting away after a week. I had fever, night sweats and profound malaise. Luckily, a physician who was up on exotic diseases gave me the right antibiotic before it went too far. If I had been on the trail when the symptoms hit, the coyotes would probably have picked my bones clean before anybody found me. As it was, it took months to recover.

All it took was one tick. I felt something on my leg in the middle of the night, reached down, picked it off and shined a flashlite to see what it was. Then I realised, when I picked it off, I probably injected its contents into myself. I then made the mistake of crushing the tick and discarding it (I should have put it in a vial for testing later).

I used Permethrin on some of my gear (beware,it's quite toxic), but it wasn't enough to prevent the single bite that brought me down.

The message here is: 1)It's not just Lyme disease, there are many other nasty diseases transmitted by ticks. Take ticks very seriously. 2) Carefully check yourself for ticks before you go to bed. 3) If you do get bit, don't assume you're OK, just because there's no rash. 4)Be extremely careful about how you remove the tick. Don't squeeze the body of the tick into yourself. 5) Don't throw the tick away, put it in a secure container. You may need it to identify which disease you have, and thereby know the proper course of treatment.

Streamweaver
11-30-2002, 20:30
In june of this year I developed a rash on my side just about where my belt was. At first I thought it was from my pack rubbing but the redness didnt go away. I Called the doctors office and they seemed anxious to check it out (they gave me an appointment that day which rarely happens)So the doctor looks at it ,measures it asks me a few questions and then states you need to get a blood test done ASAP to check for lyme disease. Then he told me so far that week(this was a thursday) he had 3 other patients with confirmed lyme disease!! Thanks to the fact that the doc gave me antibiotics right there that day instead of waiting for the test results ,I was lucky enuff not to suffer to severely. The nasty headache and stiff neck and joints pretty much cleared up right away. I already had arthritis but now I feel that it has been made worse by the lyme disease. all in all though i feel im lucky because due to the fact that I have had open heart surgery It could have caused some major problems .I think the reason that there are so many cases of lyme lately is due to the abnormal weather patterns alot of areas have been experiencing. I dont think it was just a coincedence that the rise in the number of people contracting lyme coincided with the long drought in the mid atlantic area where I live. Until this year i had never seen ticks as small as the ones ive seen lately. As somebody stated they can easily be mistaken for frekles or blemishes. Welp thats my story such as it is heres a couple of websites with very good info on lyme and other diseases. Posts like this are great because it helps raise peoples awareness of these things! Especially folks like us who spend so much time out of doors.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncdod/dvbid/lyme/
http://my.webmd.com/index Erik

Hammock Hanger
11-30-2002, 20:44
Steamweaver: Glad to hear that you are feeling okay. I too was tested positive for Lyme this past summer, but it was done in a hospital ER and I was very very sick. I still have some small neurological disorders and I have noticed some increased pain with arthritis. Thankfully though I feel I lucky to be as good as I am. Ticks were very bad this past summer. Worse i ever saw. HH

tioneon
12-01-2002, 11:04
I have a few questions. First is whether or not thru hikers are wearing long pants in some or all states, and if so, does that seem to help? Second is where are people finding these ticks on thier bodies? I know that they could be found anywhere, but I was wondering if just checking the more visible and accessible areas will get most of them. I am particularly curious about whether or not people have found tick in thier scalps because that will be hard to check even with a mirror. Third question is whether or not shaving one's beard, head, legs, etc. would be of any use.

Tio Neon

spirit
12-04-2002, 11:11
I thought I would add that I am still being treated for lymes. I had to have a centeral line put in my chest to receive iv therapy at home for the next 4-6 weeks. I was on oral antibotics for since 10/14 but they have not done the trick. I am feeling better but I still am not well. I was hoping to hike this month but now that is put off until January. I never did see the tick or bulls eye but my rash was a redish flat circles covering my entire body but I was sick for about a month before the rash appeared. The headache was the worst but I only had minor joint pain. But I could not have been any tired and still remembered to breath. I even fell asleep after only walking to the bathroom at home. So you are right to be looking for ways to prevent this disease. I have heard there is a new vacine out for lymes but not much more. My doc is looking into it for me so as soon as I get the news I'll pass it on.

Hammock Hanger
12-04-2002, 11:52
Wow!! So sorry to hear you are still having trouble with the Lymes'.
I thank my lucky stars I got all the IV antibiotics and the that the pills worked. I have some minor problems still but nothing I can't live with. You take care and I'll say a prayer that you are good as
new, better! Real soon. HH

MedicineMan
12-05-2002, 04:23
Funny but I havent seen any bugs/mosquitos on my last 3 hikes but of course they were in late Oct. and Nov. and while I am thinking about it I might mention that snowshoes are a good thing dont you think?

fwassner
08-09-2003, 17:41
All this talk about Lyme and other diseases one can contract while out on the trail has me wondering whether it is worth the risk to do a thru-hike at all?

I'm going to check with my doctor about a new Lyme vaccine. I'm only reading about it here for the first time.

I also heard that if one takes antibiotics immediately after a tick bite (within first 48 hrs) , the chances of contracting Lyme are greatly reduced.
I am seriously considering taking a stash of Doxycycline or Zithromax with me on the hike. I would probably start taking it when I am in tick season and area and not stop for who knows how long.
But maybe taking so much antibiotics can cause other damage.

Maybe it's just not worth the whole thing... or are we just getting a bit too hyped?

fwassner
08-09-2003, 20:41
I bought a can of permetherin spray intending to use it for my recent trek on Mt. Washington NH.
But after reading the label I decided this stuff was too toxic.
I can't imagine that LNT would approve of hikers carrying such and applying while on the trail. It's such a pain to use anyway. Must be applied outdoors (or in well ventilated area) and must also dry for several hours before use.

I decided to stick with DEET 30% and applied some to my socks as well as my skin.

Turns out there was enough wind on MW that day to keep the bugs down. Never had a problem with them.
This was July 26. Seek the Peak for the MW Observatory.

Great experience.

Mini-Mosey
08-09-2003, 20:45
Fwassner: Consult with your doctor about all that. Taking antibiotics too often when not really necessary could result in resistance to the antibiotic; then you'd really be up the creek if you actually contracted the disease!

And you are right, Hog, Lyme is only one tick-borne disease to be concerned about. Here in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, there have been cases of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever this summer. A client with whom I worked in my job contracted this disease in the 60's(he was only ten), was not properly diagnosed in time, fell into a coma for 6 months, and now has irreparable brain damage. Not that we should panic, only that we should be aware and take proper precautions.

fwassner
08-10-2003, 08:02
Yes, I understand that using antibiotics when not necessary will cause resistance to the drug. That is one reason why penicillin is not used so much anymore. When I was a kid, the doctor would give it for just about any kind of infection, or suspect infection.

My suggestion to take them while on the trail was one made out of desperation. I would love to thru-hike the AT, but if my chances of getting very sick are high, then I cannot justify the risk.

I'm beginning to believe that the only "safe" hike is a virtual hike.
Log on, download everything you need to know about the AT, and immerse yourself in a thru-hiker's journal.

It has worked for me with Mt. Everest. With all the journals and accounts of Everest expeditions I've read, I often feel that I have already been there!

This is a joke of course!
There is really no substitute for going out and doing it.

I will find a way to minimize my chances of contracting any disease on the trail and enjoy my walk!

One method I am considering is what they call "no see um netting". You can get a complete set of clothing including jacket, pants, and socks (maybe gloves too) that supposedly protect you from anything that crawls, flies, or jumps.

My only question would be what to do with the netting when you take it off to sleep?
You wouldn't want to just take it off and leave it in your tent, as the bugs could not crawl off of the netting and onto you.
It would seem that you would need to pick them off outside, then bring the gear into your tent so that no more bugs could crawl into it.

There's got to be some simple solution. What about garlic? Nobody has said much about it, but I've read that garlic may repel bugs. If that's true, then it might be the best answer to the problem.

Dirtyoldman
08-10-2003, 08:16
garlic is only a myth, a good wooden stake thru the heart is the only thing garranteed to work....

err, sorry wrong room. :)

squirrel bait
08-10-2003, 10:23
In Iowa they have a large population of deer and when camping or hiking or fishing we tried to always do the buddy system. You know, do your buddy, they do you. If nothing else it drops modesty way down on the list of things I don't worry about anymore. And yes it helps to be with a buddy more attractive than you. Check everytime. All most all transmission takes longer than 12 hours. Your right about the slow pull method. Can't say it enough, check everyday everynight. Make it a game, connect the dots in reverse. Good luck on your hike.

EarlyRiser
08-14-2003, 13:25
I recently returned from a two week hike in SNP and was amazed at the large number of ticks encountered on the trip. by the end of the two weeks i had pulled fourty eight ticks off of my body, i only believe two of them were deer ticks, but i have kept an extra carful vigil for a bulls eye and have contacted my doctor for proper course of action. at this point i have been advised to look for rashes but not to take any antibiotics. if i notice any strange ailments or aches i should go back to my doctor for tests.
i hope that everyone will be aware that due to the large amounts of rain this year and the large deer populations there is an unusually large number of ticks, especially im told in the central states area.

Kerosene
08-14-2003, 15:54
That's just great, EarlyRiser.

I'll be walking through central Virginia in late October, possibly solo, which makes it very hard to check your head and the backs of your legs. Plus, trying to wash the detritus off your legs so you can even see a tick makes for a very chilly proposition when when it's hovering around 40 degrees at dusk.

Between all the talk of the ticks, bees, mosquitos, bears, cougar, mice, snakes, giardia, criminals, hypothermia, rain, slippery rocks, quad-burning descents and cell-phone usage, maybe I'll just stay home. :eek:

fwassner
08-14-2003, 20:58
Garlic.
I read an article on the web (reported to have been published by JAMA) that garlic does indeed help to prevent tick bites.
See the article at: http://www.thebetterhealthstore.com/News/Garlic0824.html

How one should take garlic is a matter of choice. Take the enteric coated pills (more gets to the small intestine where it is absorbed) or eat it fresh (raw is preferred, as cooking destroys much of it's usefulness).

But does garlic attract bears?
Nobody has mentioned anything about that, so I am assuming bears are not interested in garlic.

I am doing a test to see whether or not garlic actually does have any use as a bug repellent. My testing will be done on myself while hiking in the NJ and NY area over the next few months.
I'll post my results as soon as I have them.

I did a 10 mile hike in Harriman park NY on Sun 8/10.
I used DEET 30% (no garlic), and showered with soap when I got home 4 hours later.
I did not find any ticks on my body, but did not have anyone to check me for them.
I will be watching for any symptoms over the next few weeks.

As for antibiotics, I will not be taking any unless I start with symptoms and believe that I was exposed to ticks.
My personal preference while on the trail would be to start using antibiotics if I developed any symptoms that could be Lyme, even before seeing a doctor.
Tests take time, and getting to a doctor might be delayed several days. Lyme is best treated early with antibiotics, so I would get a jump on the test results, which are not always 100% accurate.

jlb2012
08-14-2003, 21:27
well if you are really concerned about ticks there is one preventive measure that has not been mentioned yet, kinda old fashioned but it definately works - flowers of sulfur - dust yourself good and no tick will bother you

one small side effect - you will no longer be bothered by hiker funk - the only thing you will notice is the strong smell of the sulfur

Blue Jay
08-15-2003, 12:53
I've always wondered why when I materialize with my pitchfork, no ticks get on me, when all around me hikers are scratching. Thank you for clearing that up for me, and you can have your soul back.

Mudchaos
08-15-2003, 14:08
When I was in the service we used to eat a match head or two each day to keep ticks off. Not sure of any adverse health risks I may have exposed myself to, or if it even worked, but I never found a single tick on me.

Rich

fwassner
08-16-2003, 08:59
I believe that one of the by-products created by ingesting garlic is a sulfur compound, so it would seem that whether it is ingested or applied to the skin would have the same effect.

The way to avoid having all your trailmates wanting to avoid you when you take garlic would be to have them all take it. Apparently a person taking garlic becomes desensitized to it's odor.

There are so many benefits that come from eating garlic, and people have used it for thousands of years. It's a shame that people don't use it simply because of the smell.
I don't think that while out on the trail it would present a problem anyway. We all carry our own smells with us, and some are sweeter than others <g>.

I started taking garlic by adding crushed garlic to my foods, but then started taking pills with an enteric coating. The coating is supposed to minimize the effect of garlic on your breath, and allows it to pass through the stomach where many of it's good qualities would be destroyed (without enteric coating) and into the small intestine where it can be absorbed and do the good it is supposed to.
Pills would be much easier to use while on the trail anyway.

Whether or not garlic will repel tick and mosquitos is something I will have to find for myself.
Garlic is also supposed to act as an antibiotic, so perhaps having it in your blood would make you less susceptible to Lyme and other insect borne diseases.

Disclaimer: None of these facts on garlic (especially it's antibiotic effects) have been evaluated by the FDA.
Some people are allergic to garlic, and should not use it.

There is a wealth of info on garlic and other natural remedies available on the web. Use your favorite search engine.

It would be nice if I could avoid having to use DEET.

Mini-Mosey
08-17-2003, 07:40
How about Natrapel(sp.)? It has 10% Oil of Citronella as the active ingredient. I've used Cirus Scent, which has a much less concentration of Oil of Citronella; I do think it helps. I, too, don't want to use DEET; I've heard it can damage synthetics.

Mini-Mosey
08-17-2003, 07:43
I just saw the Natrapel for the first time yesterday in a drugstore; I would have bought it, but I still have some Citrus Scent left, and due to money issues, didn't elect to buy it yet. However, has anyone ever used it...and what are your findings? Thanks...

Mini-Mosey
08-17-2003, 08:15
Sorry, wanted to make that correction. Also, in addition to repeling mosquitoes, fleas, and ticks, it also is a waterproof sunscreen with an SPF of 27.

fwassner
08-17-2003, 08:24
When I asked a salesperson at Campmor about Natrapel, he sort of laughed and told me not to waste my money. He said it does nothing. They sell it because many people are afraid of DEET, and feel they need something.

I tried "Skin so soft" many years ago and it did absolutely nothing for me.
Even DEET didn't stop the black flies of VT from biting me when I was backpacking on the AT near Killington Memorial Day weekend a couple of years back.

It's really a no-win situation with bugs and repellents. You can use the repellent and take your chances with the harsh chemicals, or let the bugs bite and take your chances with what they carry.

I've even read and heard talk about banning DEET altogether.
Probably won't happen until something else is developed.

fwassner
08-17-2003, 14:13
Originally posted by Mudchaos
When I was in the service we used to eat a match head or two each day to keep ticks off. Not sure of any adverse health risks I may have exposed myself to, or if it even worked, but I never found a single tick on me.

Rich

Spontaneous combustion?

Blue Jay
08-18-2003, 08:10
I used Natrapel on a 10 day August thru of the Northville Placid Trail in the Adirondacks. It worked well for mosquitos even in a 4 hour, massive humidity, swamp. True, it only lasted about half of the time deet would have. Also black (gone at that time) and deer flies are only mildly amused. Also, to be honest, I'll take getting eaten alive rather than use a product on my skin that melts plastic.

Presto
08-18-2003, 11:06
I contracted Lymes in NY on my thru hike in 2002. There was a rash but not where the bite was and it didn't resemble the bulls eye commonly shown in photos to demonstrate signs of Lymes. However, having seen several deer ticks affixed to me, I knew what it was right away. I had general flu symtoms with a rash and general feeling of fatigue. Simple climbs made my muscles weaker than normal and I got to a Dr. right away. Symptoms ceased while I was taking Dioxycycline prescribed in NY. After done taking pills symptoms came back in a few days. Round 2 of antibiotics was administered in Andover where I checked into the Dr.s office with a 104 degree temp. After taking round two of antiobiotics (amoxycillin) - I finally shook the bug. Have been fine ever since.

The moral of the story-
If you feel ill in areas where contracting Lymes is possible - DONT WAIT to seek medical attention. I am very lucky that I got over the illness with no long term reprecussions. If you let this disease spread in you it will reach your brain in about 3 weeks. After that, you will likely be dealing with this serious disease for the rest of your life. Advanced symptoms include neurological disorders and other types of brain damage. Know what the symptoms of this disease are and take it very seriously - GO TO A DR. if you have the symptoms.

B Thrash
08-18-2003, 14:18
I have a can of PN Permanone that was issued by the US Army to be used in a field enviroronment to treat for ticks on clothing only. On the label it is registered for use in the following AT states: Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey, W. Virginia and Connecticut. (I just wonder if I used it in Vermont next month if I will get locked up) Caution label states: "FOR CLOTHING ONLY" treat clothing, socks, boots, gators, "DO NOT APPLY TO SKIN" and only good for 48 hours. Anybody know anything about this stuff?. Marketed by: Coulston Corp, Easton, PA.

fwassner
08-18-2003, 19:28
As for Lyme symptoms, the telltale rash only appears in about 50% of cases. Most get the flu-like symptoms anywhere between 3 days and 2 weeks.
I thoroughly agree that a person who knows he/she has been exposed to the ticks to take the antibiotic before seeing the doctor. He's going to prescribe it anyway, so you get several days jump on the disease, and that can make a whole lifetime of difference.

I've never had Lyme, but did receive the antibiotic after a tick bite. Never came down with any symptoms, so don't know if I would have had it or not. Glad I didn't have to find out <g>.

It would be a good idea to know where and who the doctors are while you're on the trail.

EarlyRiser
08-18-2003, 19:29
Kerosene

maybe I'll just stay home.

I sure hope you dont stay home! i hope you enjoy your hike and arnt bothered by any ticks, however it seems that at that temperature they might be gone for the season.

and actualy as a continuation, i just recieved word yesterday that my five year old cousin contracted lyme, he never got a rash, my uncle bathes him every day and is always vigilant because he plays in the woods a lot but he started showing flu like symptoms and was shown positive. i went today for a blood test myself because of how ive been feeling lately but ill let you know.

Mini-Mosey

How about Natrapel(sp.)? It has 10% Oil of Citronella

Citronella actually attracts bears, it is similar in smell to a natural odor given off by male bears durring mating season.

B Thrash
08-18-2003, 19:57
EarlyRiser

Is it the male or female bear that is attracted to Citronella?.

jlb2012
08-18-2003, 20:30
flowers of sulfur may be available at your local drug store but you will need to ask - it used to be fairly common but these days - who knows. Another source of sulfur is the garden supply stores - look for dusting sulfur. Per this site it is also possible to buy old flowers of sulfur through Ebay : http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/016/index.s7.html

B Thrash
08-18-2003, 20:33
Very good website on Lyme Disease go to:

www.morristown.com/LymeDiseaseNJ/TickDISEASE.htmal

B Thrash
08-18-2003, 20:36
Correction on Website:

www.morristown.com/LymeDiseaseNJ/TickDISEASE.html

Mini-Mosey
08-18-2003, 21:00
Thanks for all the info, and, EarlyRiser, thanks for pointing out that citronella gives off the scent of a female bear in mating season(I believe I've got that right). I had read that citronella attracts bears but wondered if it attracted them any more than any other unusual smell. Seems that, given the info you imparted, it would!!
If you listen to country music, there's a song that was popular about a couple of years ago by Joe Diffee called "It's Always Something". Seems that song could apply to this site!! I am going to check out the sulphur option.

Mini-Mosey
08-18-2003, 21:02
It's MALE bears!!

fwassner
08-18-2003, 21:31
Originally posted by B Thrash
Very good website on Lyme Disease go to:

www.morristown.com/LymeDiseaseNJ/TickDISEASE.htmal

That url appears not to be working

EarlyRiser
08-18-2003, 21:45
im going to have to get back to you as to which sex it attracts, i saw it listed in one of my magazines, i believe it was in backpacker, but ill check latter.

eitherway it makes me wonder how we didnt see more bears last year when a friend of mine carried around a burning citronella candle for two weeks!

Mini-Mosey
08-19-2003, 19:56
to me WHICH sex ; it's still a bear!! Although I do have a bunch of Backpacking magazines, so I could check it out myself if I get so inclined.

Mini-Mosey
08-19-2003, 21:07
that I mentioned earlier in this thread could be applied to this THREAD, not the site.

EarlyRiser
08-20-2003, 20:47
i search through my back issues and couldnt find it, so either i missed it, i heard it somewhere else, or am just losing it, all are quite possible explinations. im pretty sure it attracks both a little, but one more than the other, so perhaps its attractive to females and it attracts males because of competition, or some such thing. if anyone finds out which id appreciate it.

max patch
08-21-2003, 08:15
Check your Feb 03 issue; this from a quick google:


In response to a question about bears being attracted to citronella, in the February 2003 issue of Backpacker magazine the "bear expert" wrote about "several years" of research in "Alaska to test how bears respond to different sights, sounds and smells. Citronella powerfully attracts some male and female bears. For some individuals of both sexes, it elicits rolling and rubbing that can last for 5 to 10 minutes... We know of no attacks on people triggered by wearing citronella, but because of its bear attraction power we don't recommend wearing it in bear country."

EarlyRiser
08-21-2003, 20:22
thank you, that is exactly what i was looking for. i must have just missed it. thank you very much.

on a happy note my test came back and i am negative for Lyme so thats good.

gravityman
08-22-2003, 10:31
As noted elsewhere in this thread, the test for lyme "often" gives false positives and negatives. Keep paying attention to how you feel...

Gravity man

Mini-Mosey
08-25-2003, 06:46
Seriously....thanks very much for the information, Max Patch.

fwassner
09-13-2003, 21:31
There's got to be a better way... than DEET to protect one's self against ticks that carry Lyme and other life debilitating disease, as well as mosquitoes.

Wear long pants and sleeves... I get way too warm on hot days.
Check one's self for ticks every night... I usually travel alone.
Netting?? Do I want to look like a space man hiking the trail?

What works? Is DEET the only sure method?
Wearing DEET continuously (more or less) for a thru-hike from about April to Aug or Sept is a lot of DEET possibly getting into one's body. It can cause all sorts of problems... long term, including cancer. It especially attacks the liver.

IMO, a thru-hike not worth the risk of disease. I can handle possible injury. At least I can see the dangers, and easily avoid them... well, OK. No one can totally avoid all physical hazards on the trail. But it's not like bugs. I hate the thought that I would have to wear DEET for so long and check myself for ticks every night before sleeping, when I'm so tired from that 20 mile hike.

I tried taking Garlic pills for weeks then going on a hike in the Catskills NY on Labor day weekend. As soon as I stepped out of my truck the mosquitoes started biting, so I applied the DEET.
Who was I to believe that having garlic in my blood could prevent bites??

So what do thru-hikers do about these real hazards?
Has anyone ever worn netting?

Trailjockey
09-14-2003, 02:11
I





:o OOPS!

Trailjockey
09-14-2003, 02:15
I`ve got to tell you that LYME desease is probably more prevalant than most people think. I live about a 15min. ride from the town in which it is named, Lyme, Ct.. Nearly everyone in this area who frequently visits the woods, lives in a wooded area where deer and mice can be found or owns a pet has had lyme desease. Many more than once.
It can mimic many ailments. Flu like symtoms, to things like Bell`s Palsy and rumatoid arthritus. Plus some disturbing heart conditions which can be permanent if left un treated.
Something else you might want to know is that the deer tick around these parts can be found active any month of the year when tempetures rise into the mid 30`s and even colder temps in sheltered areas.
Personally my weapon of choice is Permanone.(Can be found at Wally-World) Seems to work well for me. Even repells mosquitoes( West Nile, Yes we`ve got that too.), horse flys and them pesky deer flys. Don`t know how it would fair against black flys. Haven`t put it to the test.
This stuff will last several weeks sparyed on clothes(on skin is a no-no!). Can last thru several machine washings.
Another tidbit on the war against bugs. Exofficio is coming out with a line of outdoor clothing with this stuff already bonded to the fabric. Suppose to last thu as many as 30 machine washings.
:banana "Better Living thu Chemistry" It`s so 60`s.
So our options are either to stay at home and be safe(?), or grab those WMD`s(That`s Weapons of Mass Destuction for you non- political types)and declare WAR on bugs everwhere!
Soldiers, and hikers, go out there and show`em who owns the trail!

gumball
09-14-2003, 06:54
Do you always develop a headache?

Mudchaos
09-14-2003, 12:38
Try MEC (Mountain Equipment Co-op)

http://tinyurl.com/nbo4

Their bug netting jacket is about $13 USD. They have a lot of good deals on this site as the exchange rate is very favorable at this time. I just picked up an Integral Designs sil/nyl 8x10 tarp for $91 USD. Compared to $120 USD from US suppliers.:)

Rich

Blue Jay
09-15-2003, 07:47
You do not need to dip youself in poison or buy a space suit. Just pull all of the ticks off before you go to bed. It's not that hard to remember.

fwassner
09-15-2003, 20:59
It's not hard to remember the ticks, but if you're traveling alone, then who is going to check where you can't see?
Some of the ticks that cause Lyme are so tiny there's no way anyone can see them, especially in less than perfect lighting that may exist by the time you get into camp.

Streamweaver
09-16-2003, 00:54
Usually ticks never get a chance to imbed themselves into my flesh because I can feel then and remove them before they do. But the deer ticks that carry Lyme Disease are usually very small and I never even saw the tick that gave me Lyme!!! Never even knew it had been there until I got the rash . A magnefying mirror works best to see the little buggers. Streamweaver

Cehoffpauir
01-22-2004, 03:53
I posted this under "alcohol" thread and thought it more appropriate here.

A past thru-hiker told me he used isopropyl alcohol to kill ticks on his body, and that he never got Lyme disease though he knew people who did. Does anyone know how isopropyl works in killing ticks? It would be better than plucking them out one-by-one, because you could spread it over areas of your body you can't see well, rather than struggle with mirrors and such, possibly missing the one tick who gives you Lyme. Isop has additional uses, also.

UPDATE 3/4/04
Since having first posted the above I read the back of a bottle of rubbing alcohol, which clearly states: "Do not apply over large areas of the body." Anyone considering it should be so advised!

Blue Jay
01-22-2004, 08:41
I posted this under "alcohol" thread and thought it more appropriate here.

A past thru-hiker told me he used isopropyl alcohol to kill ticks on his body, and that he never got Lyme disease though he knew people who did. Does anyone know how isopropyl works in killing ticks? It would be better than plucking them out one-by-one, because you could spread it over areas of your body you can't see well, rather than struggle with mirrors and such, possibly missing the one tick who gives you Lyme. Isop has additional uses, also.

It could help but I would still check my entire body. That is the only fool proof method of avoiding Lyme.

gravityman
01-22-2004, 11:54
As with most anecdotal evidence, it is urban myth.

The most important thing about removing a tick is making sure it doesn't regurgitate its stomach contents in to you. This will give you a chance to getting any one of a number of baddies, including lymes.

Pulling it out is the only way to go. Either with tweezers (don't squeeze the stomach!) or with a loop of thread attached around the head.

Here's a link on some "real" information :

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0BJI/21_30/67977458/p1/article.jhtml


I posted this under "alcohol" thread and thought it more appropriate here.

A past thru-hiker told me he used isopropyl alcohol to kill ticks on his body, and that he never got Lyme disease though he knew people who did. Does anyone know how isopropyl works in killing ticks? It would be better than plucking them out one-by-one, because you could spread it over areas of your body you can't see well, rather than struggle with mirrors and such, possibly missing the one tick who gives you Lyme. Isop has additional uses, also.

Mom Lamb
01-22-2004, 13:43
QUOTE:

Cehoffpauir wrote: A past thru-hiker told me he used isopropyl alcohol to kill ticks on his body.... you could spread it over areas of your body you can't see well...

As an LPN, I want to warn folks NOT to use isopropyl alcohol on widespread areas of your body. Years ago, isopropyl alcohol was called 'rubbing alcohol', used to give backrubs, muscle rubs to hot atheletes and fevered patients. It's action was to quickly cool body temperature. But it had a dangerous secondary action--it was rapidly absorbed through the open skin pores and enlarged surface capillaries and into the bloodstream (a natural occurance during fevers or after exercise). People started dying from alcohol poisoning. Using the alcohol after hiking, when you're hot, could result in death. Especially if splashed liberally in the groin and waist areas, where ticks often migrate to.

It would be better to wear light-colored clothes, spray shoes and socks with DEET and avoid bushwwhacking or sitting in grass. Do tick checks on your legs and outer clothing during rest breaks and a full tick check at the end of the day.

Flash Hand
01-25-2004, 21:23
I know you would be laughing your butt off, if I might think of trying wearing dog collar, or put them around legs? Would it prevent ticks from crawling up the legs?

I am thinking of bring a bunch of garlic, deet, tweezer and can I ask doctor to prescribe antibiotics even if the infectious part of body didnt show any of symptoms?

I was wondering where ticks are often found? in thick facial hairs? armpit? or head hair? or area with no hairs?

Was wondering how fast the tick would crawl up the legs to the desination, and was surprised that trying to burn the tick with the matches wasnt recommended. I guess tweezer is effective but I DO HOPE that ticks doesnt decide to inject in the middle of the back or up in the ass.

Flash Hand :jump

Skeemer
01-26-2004, 08:56
Originally posted by gravityman:

The most important thing about removing a tick is making sure it doesn't regurgitate its stomach contents in to you. This will give you a chance to getting any one of a number of baddies, including lymes.

Pulling it out is the only way to go. Either with tweezers (don't squeeze the stomach!) or with a loop of thread attached around the head.

Isn't this nearly impossible with the tiny ticks that carry Lymes? I contracted Lyme Disease in '02 and never saw any ticks on my skin. It is my understanding that the one's that carry Lymes are so small you can't see them without a magnifying glass let alone be able to tie a string around the head. When I first read this I thought it was some kind of a joke.

gravityman
01-26-2004, 11:42
There are all kinds of ticks. This was just a method of removing them. I've had plenty of large ticks in my skin. One of them gave me a nasty rash and caused my lymph nodes to swell in that area. To this day when I have an allergic reaction, the rash around that area reappears. Very strange.

As for the "nymph" deer ticks that you are talking about, yes they are small. No, they are not invisible to the naked eye, but they sure look small. Like a fleck of dirt. And usually if you have one, you have a lot of them. I picked off about 50 of them on a spring hike in Florida. That's when I knew the hiking season was over! And yes, these are the ones that most likely carry lymes. And only about 50% of the people that get lymes actually remember the classic "Bull's Eye" rash.

Gravity Man

cabalot
01-30-2004, 02:54
Had anybody used Permethrin? It's an insect and tick repellent that can be applied to clothing. It's supposed to be effective for 2 weeks or more after application. I tried it on socks and pant legs last year. This year I didn't get around to treating my clothing and picked up 2 deer ticks in Connecticut. Has anybody used this stuff extensively enough to know if it is really effective?

Deb,
I am from CT and have a friend that gets disability from the state cause of LD. he was a 20-30 technical up and down hill mile a day mountain biker that has been reduced to an occasional paved rail trail biker when he feels a little healthy. he has been thru all the treatments and still has all 3 diseases contracted from deer ticks. i had 2 mild cases of LD and its no fun.

sinse i moved to NJ last summer i have been camping in the bass river state forest a lot. every time i would find several ticks on me. i was lucky and didn't get LD. i also got chiggers bad around the ancles. after trying permithum on my clothing and deet on my skin, the highly concentrated brand, i was tick and chigger free. mosquitoes didnt bother me as much either. i only treated my clothing once and was good for at least 1 month.

this tick season i am treating all my clothing with permithum at least once a month. ticks i believe are most active in spring and fall, like deer, when they are recouping from winter and getting ready for winter. most LD cases are reported in CT, first reported in Old Lyme, CT.

by the way deb i enjoyed your member photo gallery, great pics of people having fun hiking. who is the pretty girl with the backpack in the medow?

later all,
mike

MadAussieInLondon
01-30-2004, 05:21
i read up a fair bit on it over the last few weeks.. The ones that can do the most harm are the size of a pinhead.. thats TINY! Imnot exactly as hairless as a mexican cat but I'm not a mountain gorilla either.. I think its going to be fairly difficult to detect some of these.

lots of checking.
leave my gaiters on
investigate any tickling!

become a contortionist so I can check my inny belly button hahahaha :)

Kerosene
01-30-2004, 09:54
MadAussieInLondon,

It's very difficult to find these buggers, especially when you've got bits of detritus on your legs that are difficult to rinse off and are the same size. In addition, it's tough to look everywhere on your body if you don't have a partner willing to paw through your hairy back and head. I strongly suggest that you buy a lightweight pair of tick removal tweezers with a magnifying glass. At least then you can see the little buggers squirming their legs.

Streamweaver
01-30-2004, 10:17
The safest way to remove a tick that is dug in,is to smother it in something like Vasaline,Triple antibiotic ointment etc. this will cut off its air supply and force it to back out of the skin where it can be plucked safely with tweezers.Streamweaver

jlb2012
01-30-2004, 12:22
Well I have to disagree with you there Streamweaver - smothering a tick very often results in the tick emptying its stomach into you before it lets go - just the thing you don't want to happen. My opinion is to use the tweezers with good points so you can get the head and not the stomach of the tick - pull gently for a couple minutes and they should let go safely.

Streamweaver
01-30-2004, 16:53
Well I have to disagree with you there Streamweaver - smothering a tick very often results in the tick emptying its stomach into you before it lets go - just the thing you don't want to happen. My opinion is to use the tweezers with good points so you can get the head and not the stomach of the tick - pull gently for a couple minutes and they should let go safely.

You are not going to find a pair of tweezers with good enough points to grab the head of a tiny deer tick (the very small immature ones that generally carry lyme)!Youve got it backwards!! Very often its grabbing a tick with tweezers while it still has its tubes in you that causes it to empty its stomach contents into you!!! This is not just my opinion but information I researched after contracting lyme disease.Streamweaver

jlb2012
01-30-2004, 17:55
You are not going to find a pair of tweezers with good enough points to grab the head of a tiny deer tick (the very small immature ones that generally carry lyme)!Youve got it backwards!! Very often its grabbing a tick with tweezers while it still has its tubes in you that causes it to empty its stomach contents into you!!! This is not just my opinion but information I researched after contracting lyme disease.Streamweaver


I am of the opinion that there are tweezers with fine enough points to do the job. It is important however to avoid squeezing the tick anywhere except the head for just the reason you mention.

Link to tick removal info from lyme org (http://www.lyme.org/ticks/removal.html)

Streamweaver
01-30-2004, 18:27
Yeah the site you posted as well as the CDC and Webmed site all say the same thing "dont use petroleum jelly etc" but they also say that it is unlikely that you will be infected until the tick has been on you at least 36 hours.There is no way in Hades that the tick that infected me was on my body for 36 hours or more!!! The rash was right on my side just about where my belts sits ,a little towards the front but I never even saw the tick! Most ticks I can feel crawling on me long before they can dig in so this one must have been puny!!They change info on these things so often,who the flip knows!!? Streamweaver

jec6613
03-01-2004, 21:48
The time period is 24-36 hours, and the deer ticks that carry lyme can be so small that you can't see them, and especially in the belt area they can actually get nearly their whole body into your skin. My sister once contracted lyme from a tick in our back yard, so in CT you always have to be careful.

What I do is DEET up my legs and the tops of my boots and socks every morning after I put them on: this prevents 99% of the ticks as they will typically grab onto your leg hairs as you walk by. Then I do my waistline, arms and the back of my neck and that has kept all but one or two off of me. For those that I do get I usually use a tweezers, but once I got a deer tick in the Anirondacs and was a day's walk away from the nearest tweezers small enough and the ones on my knife were too imprecise, so I used the only thing I had: a razor sharp swiss army knife.

If you're squeamish, stop reading now.

Anyway, what I did was actually push the blade into the skin right next to the tick and carfully worked the point under where the tick bit, then did it three more times until the hunk of skin came off completely, tick and all. I then used an antibiotic ointment, and slapped some gauze and tape over it until a few hours later when the bleeding slowed and I was able to use a regular band-aid.

Ticks are dangerous and you shouldn't mess around with them. In my wallet wherever I goo I always carry a laminated card with the symptoms for common insect borne illnesses and size examples of several types of ticks. Thankfully, I havn't gotten sick yet, and I plan on staying that way. Yes, it is possible to avoid the illness completely, but vigillance is key.

Blue Jay
03-02-2004, 08:56
You are absolutely right Jec. Sometimes but rarely, they are too small for tweesers and you have to dig them out. Make sure you at least hold the blade in a flame until red hot first to help prevent infection. I know it screws up the temper of the blade, but I do it anyway. I do not check by sight. I run my hands over every inch and if a piece of dirt does not come off I assume it's a tick and get it off twice a day.

Hammock Hanger
03-02-2004, 10:09
SOmewhere back in the beginings of this post (#4 of this thread) are my comments and story of Lyme Disease. I got it somewhere out there, not sure when or where as I didn't have any symthoms that I realized. Tired, achy, hell I was hiking the AT... So if you have friends hiking with you have them check as well. -- I still suffer with side effects from the disease to this very day... it really sucks!

I was bite by a mesquito behind my knee and got West Nile as well. I have no residual effects from that.
Hammock Hanger:datz

flyfisher
03-02-2004, 10:39
Had anybody used Permethrin? It's an insect and tick repellent that can be applied to clothing. It's supposed to be effective for 2 weeks or more after application. I tried it on socks and pant legs last year. This year I didn't get around to treating my clothing and picked up 2 deer ticks in Connecticut. Has anybody used this stuff extensively enough to know if it is really effective?

:cool: Military uses it a lot. Works great. The best method to apply to clothes is called the "shake and bake."

Works against sand flies in Iraq, against fire ants in Texas, against ticks and also against mosquitoes. Occasionally, people have sensitivity to the material.

I treat my hiking shirt, shorts, and hammock with an off-label soak method. I will also use on my new gaiters this year. I seldom need to use DEET, unless the mosquitoes get really bad. However, a good treatment with permethrin will last the season. It does not wash out with soap and water. If I want to get all of it out of a piece of clothing, dry cleaning will remove it all.

Jeff
03-02-2004, 17:57
Are there certain months of the year in CT and MA where you don't have to worry about the deer tick???

jec6613
03-02-2004, 18:47
Late December, January and February and early March you don't need to worry about them. Well, let me rephrase that: you still need to worry about them year round, but the risk is significatly reduced that time of the year to almost zero.

I used some alcohol from a swab I carry with me to clean the blade, I'm very careful with my knives and I've used the same one hiking since I was 8. They last forever if you take good care of them. I keep about a half of dozen alcohol pads in my first aid kit, they're very easy and very useful.

Pencil Pusher
05-27-2004, 21:21
Of the precautions people take, this has been good reading. Now on the antibiotics doctors give, one person listed amoxycillin. How long did you have to take that for?

Streamweaver
05-27-2004, 21:43
Of the precautions people take, this has been good reading. Now on the antibiotics doctors give, one person listed amoxycillin. How long did you have to take that for?

When I had Lyme the doctor had me on antibiotics for 6 weeks and that pretty much did the trick,though there are some lasting effects. He gave me doxycycline instead of amoxycillin because the amoxycillin is used more for prevention of infection than to kill it.I guess it depends on how early you detect the lyme disease. Also because I might have built a bit of an immunity to the amoxycillin because I take that before any kind of procedure as an infection barrier. Streamweaver

Hammock Hanger
05-27-2004, 21:51
Of the precautions people take, this has been good reading. Now on the antibiotics doctors give, one person listed amoxycillin. How long did you have to take that for?
I also was given doxycycline. When I was in the hospital I got it thru an IV for 4 straight days. According to the doctor they were giving me the largest dose allowed. Then when I went home I was on pills for 6 weeks. (I also had West Nile which is why I may have gotten such a strong dose in the hospital.) -- I still have a few residual effects. Sue/HH

gravityman
05-28-2004, 10:04
Hi HH,
West Nile is a virus, so they wouldn't have been giving you a antibiotic for that I don't think (however, maybe because they wanted to get the lymes real fast due to the compromised immune system that has to fight two baddies?).

I had a tick bite that was infected and they put me on six weeks of amoxicillian in 1999. The CCD changes up the antibiotics that they recommend every few years to keep from generating resistant strains. I never had any symptoms (the rash was not the classic bull's eye, but then again they say that the bull's eye rash is only noticed in less than 1/2 the cases)

The interesting thing is that whenever I have an allergic reaction to something (this is another story. Every so often - once a year or so - I can hardly breath, I get welts all over my body, and things start itching like crazy) the same spot on my leg where the tick bite me swells up and turns itchy, just like after the original infection. Wierd, huh? It's been 5 years!

Gravity man

Texas Dreamer
06-01-2004, 11:40
There is a product manufactured for treatment of lice called the Robi-comb. It is an electrified comb which can be run over the scalp and electricutes the lice. I discovered this when looking for alternatives to chemical treatment (which doesn't really work, BTW) when my kids were at that lice-catching age. This comb, which runs on batteries, is used not only for treatment, but also for prevention. I used it once a week and if they had picked one up at school the comb detected and killed it before it had a chance to breed. A huge breakthrough since by the time you see symptoms--there are hundreds.

It seems like this might be a good idea for the solo hiker to find the tiny ticks. The comb could be run over the body or scalp to find the ones you can't see. I don't know if the electrocution would cause regurg or not, it seems a fairly instantaneous death to the lice.

The comb emits a faint humming sound which stops when a critter is found, you can then see the dead bug in the combs teeth, turn off the comb, remove the bug, then turn it on and resume the hunt.

Just an idea, what do ya'll think?

orangebug
06-01-2004, 17:05
It seems like this might be a good idea for the solo hiker to find the tiny ticks. The comb could be run over the body or scalp to find the ones you can't see. I don't know if the electrocution would cause regurg or not, it seems a fairly instantaneous death to the lice.


I think you are dreaming. Lice attach to hair, and can be removed with a fine nit comb. Ticks attach to skin to suck on a blood meal. Deer ticks are quite tiny, even when engorged from their meal. They can be removed via scrubbing, especially when adherent for less than 48 hours. A simple bandana/sponge bath can be much more effective, and a lighter weight alternative.

Bill...