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Swiss Roll
12-06-2006, 10:48
I am a novice at this hiking business. I have hiked 3 small sections of the AT this year (Standing Indian, Hot Springs, and Pearisburg.) Each time out, I have tented, but I am interested in staying in a shelter. I can see some advantages to sheltering because of the weight saved by not carrying a tent. My question is, how do you deal with mice? Do they get IN your sleeping bag while you are sleeping? Do you hang your food outside the shelter so they don't get in your food bag? Thanks

The Weasel
12-06-2006, 10:54
I am a novice at this hiking business. I have hiked 3 small sections of the AT this year (Standing Indian, Hot Springs, and Pearisburg.) Each time out, I have tented, but I am interested in staying in a shelter. I can see some advantages to sheltering because of the weight saved by not carrying a tent. My question is, how do you deal with mice? Do they get IN your sleeping bag while you are sleeping? Do you hang your food outside the shelter so they don't get in your food bag? Thanks

Roll --

Mice aren't the problem that it sounds like. If you hang your food away from the shelter, you won't have a problem with them getting into it, although many other people don't. Leave each zipper of your pack slightly open, since otherwise mice may chew through, but they rarely damage gear otherwise. If you keep your sleeping bag food-free, they won't bother you inside the bag, although I'm sure someone will post a 'war story' or two; it doesn't happen that much. Occasionally you'll feel them run over your bag, but even that is fairly rare.

Yes, they're a nuisance, but not the terror some will say. As I've said elsewhere, one way to minimize them is to drop a small piece of cheese into the sleeping bag of your neighbor. You should have few, or no, problems.

The Weasel

Ender
12-06-2006, 11:02
First, even if you don't carry a tent and plan to use only shelters, you should still carry some type of shelter, a basic tarp maybe, just in case the shelter is full or for some other reason you can't stay in the shelter. Especially if you're planning on going out this time of year, when hypothermia is a real concern.

As far as mice, they won't go into your sleeping bag most likely, but they are pretty fearless, so you may occasionally find them running over you. It's more of a bother than an actual problem.

For food, in most shelters there nails with cords hanging from them, and these cords have mouse blockers attached to them (usually just an old can with a hole in it... the mice have a hard time getting around the can and down to the foodbag). These help a lot but they don't completely prevent mice from getting to your food.

The only way I know of to be sure that mice don't get your food would be an Ursack (I think these are mouseproof too) or a bear canister. I don't bother with either, unless required by law to be carried.

Ender
12-06-2006, 11:04
Weasel's leaving the zippers open idea is a good one... it will help to prevent the mice from eating through the fabric of your pack. Though again, it's still no garauntee that they won't just do it out of spite.

Really though, in most shelters they aren't a huge problem.

Still makes tenting a better option for me though. But that's just me.

The Weasel
12-06-2006, 11:12
I am a novice at this hiking business. *** I can see some advantages to sheltering because of the weight saved by not carrying a tent. ***

Always carry some form of shelter. Emergencies happen, and sometimes shelters are too full or otherwise undesireable, even when you don't think they will be.

The Weasel

Moxie00
12-06-2006, 11:17
It is a very bad idea to go onto the AT without an alternative shelter, tent or tarp. Don't ever plan to stay in a shelter. Too many nights when it has been raining like a cow pissing on a flat rock a hiker has arrived at a shelter and found it completly full. More than once I have heard hikers say, I don't have a tent, would someone be willing to move out to make room for me. There is always room for one more in a shelter but to ask a hiker that has a dry place in a shelter to go out in the rain to set up a tent or tarp in just not reasonable or very smart. CARRY A TENT OR TARP, period.
Once you stop at a shelter you will see how everyone hangs their food inside the shelter, on strings with "mouse flipper" cans on them. It works. Also put tooth paste end anything that can be eaten in your food bag as mice and other creatures can eat right through a back pack if they smell something they can eat. I've never had a mouse in my sleeping bag but they will get in your pack if it isn't hung. Sleep with face to the shelter opening and their is less chance they will run across your face at night. They seem to prefer to run at the back wall of the shelter.
You will not escape mice even if you tent far from a shelter. AT THE CHEESE FACTORY SITE IN GEORGIA I HAD MICE CHEW A HOLE IN A GREGORY PACK JUST TO GET AT MY TOOTHPASTE. I have often tented only to have mice run up and down my tent all night and every time I was miles from a shelter. Mice are part of the AT experience and when I backpack I just accept them, try to give them their space, and hope they respect my space. Use every trick you learn to protect yourself and your food but accept the fact the mice are there and hikers will never completly win the fight against them.

PJ 2005
12-06-2006, 14:52
I only found a couple shelters where the mice were fearless. They WILL seek revenge - a fellow hiker tossed a large nest out into the snow one night and awoke to find his shoes filled with acorns.

For fun, you can try to catch them. I would set up my two inch windscreen and place a little food in the middle. When they get curious and peer over the windscreen, you can grab their tail. If you throw them in the woods they usually won't come back.

Mouse
12-06-2006, 18:42
Mostly the mice just make for really good stories when you get home. But I agree having some form of shelter is an EXTREMELY good idea. One can never be there is no room in the shelter or conditions may force camping between shelters. Be prepared.

RAT
12-06-2006, 22:11
I also agree having some sort of alternative shelter is a good idea if only a small tarp. You will eventually need it. I have had no issues with mice other than waking me up and being nosy, but I have seen folks get their boot/shoe laces chewed off completely a number of times so I always hang them out of reach or sleep with them in the bag. I also leave pack compartments open, they will chew thru. But of course I am a RAT so perhaps that is why they dont bother me ? lol Also putting out an offering somewhere has always worked for me too ;)

RAT

Boat Drinks
12-06-2006, 22:18
Too many nights when it has been raining like a cow pissing on a flat rock

I have not heard that. That made milk come out my nose.:D

No Belay
12-06-2006, 22:44
Swiss Roll. Mice aren't bad if you remember that they too are just animals with needs. I discovered a sure fire way to keep them out of your munchies. I take two Viagra (a friend's) and smash them into a quater cup of cracked corn thats mixed with 2 table spoons of grated American Cheese. Put that mix in an oatmeal container and leave it on the rafters of the shelter were the little varmits can easily access it. A couple nibbles of that and they develop " hungers "that take priority over food. The only downside is the squeals and moans they make all night. In the morning, you'll find them lying on their backs, totally satisfied, by the rear wall. Simply pick them up by their their tails and place them into the pack of a South Bounder. Problem solved. If you find that there were no mice and the mixture isn't touched, you can prepare it just like oatmeal and eat it for breakfast.;)

Blissful
12-06-2006, 22:57
You will not escape mice even if you tent far from a shelter. AT THE CHEESE FACTORY SITE IN GEORGIA I HAD MICE CHEW A HOLE IN A GREGORY PACK JUST TO GET AT MY TOOTHPASTE. .

They also like nosepads on glasses. Be sure to keep your eyeglasses in a case if you wear them or they will chew them too (learned that the hard way). And I keep everything zipped open in my pack. Not sure how hanging your pack will help as the buggers can still get to them if they want ('less it's below a tuna can I guess).

RAT
12-07-2006, 00:14
I have not heard that. That made milk come out my nose.:D

My mom told me that when I was just a young mouse !! Been using it ever since, perhaps it's a southern thang ?

RAT

otterman
12-07-2006, 08:46
Swiss Roll. Mice aren't bad if you remember that they too are just animals with needs. I discovered a sure fire way to keep them out of your munchies. I take two Viagra (a friend's) and smash them into a quater cup of cracked corn thats mixed with 2 table spoons of grated American Cheese. Put that mix in an oatmeal container and leave it on the rafters of the shelter were the little varmits can easily access it. A couple nibbles of that and they develop " hungers "that take priority over food. The only downside is the squeals and moans they make all night. In the morning, you'll find them lying on their backs, totally satisfied, by the rear wall. Simply pick them up by their their tails and place them into the pack of a South Bounder. Problem solved. If you find that there were no mice and the mixture isn't touched, you can prepare it just like oatmeal and eat it for breakfast.;)

Doesn't this make hiking a little awkward if you end up eating the mixture in the morning?:eek:

TOW
12-07-2006, 10:06
Swiss Roll. Mice aren't bad if you remember that they too are just animals with needs. I discovered a sure fire way to keep them out of your munchies. I take two Viagra (a friend's) and smash them into a quater cup of cracked corn thats mixed with 2 table spoons of grated American Cheese. Put that mix in an oatmeal container and leave it on the rafters of the shelter were the little varmits can easily access it. A couple nibbles of that and they develop " hungers "that take priority over food. The only downside is the squeals and moans they make all night. In the morning, you'll find them lying on their backs, totally satisfied, by the rear wall. Simply pick them up by their their tails and place them into the pack of a South Bounder. Problem solved. If you find that there were no mice and the mixture isn't touched, you can prepare it just like oatmeal and eat it for breakfast.;)
HAHAHAHA:D ! But that just ain't right. By the way it was good to have met you this past weekend, I look forward to seeing you when come this way again.

Grampie
12-07-2006, 10:26
If you are going to hike the AT and stay in shelters than get use to the idea that the mice live there too, so get use to them. Some folks, especialy in the begining, would just freak out when they say a mouse in a shelter. They are very active at night and will run all over your stuff including you in a sleeping bag. Hang your food, open up your pack pockets and ignore them.;)

Brrrb Oregon
12-07-2006, 13:46
Go to the National Institutes of Health website and look up what you're supposed to do if you get a rodent infestation. That will leave one more space in the shelter for somebody else. (Hantavirus, anyone? Oh, heck, and you forgot to pack your HazMat suit and four gallons of Clorox? What were you thinking?....)


Yes, they're a nuisance, but not the terror some will say. As I've said elsewhere, one way to minimize them is to drop a small piece of cheese into the sleeping bag of your neighbor. You should have few, or no, problems.
You will have better luck if you can spare just an eighth of a Reeser's peanut butter cup. Put a whole one in and smash it around a little, and they'll soon be calling the poor guy "Willard".

(You could even afford to do this, The Weasel, since you wouldn't have to pay somebody else to write up the paperwork for the restraining order.:D )

Moxie00
12-07-2006, 17:24
In 2000 a hiker named "High Speed", (he was actually slower than melting ice in winter) came up with an idea. He would spread food in the woods about 100 feet from a shelter and figure the mice would spend the entire night eating away from the shelter. I don't know how in worked, I didn't see any mice that night, the next morning I passed "High Speed", went into The Blueberry Patch, and never saw High Speed again.

Bravo
12-07-2006, 22:18
I always just carry a big snake into the shelters with me. It doesn't roll well with the ultralighters but it gets the job done.:D

Jim Adams
12-07-2006, 22:43
an LED headlamp wont work with this plan (i don't know why) but the old style headlamps with the halogen bulbs will. put a small amount of gorp on the edge of the shelter floor beside you and wait in the dark for a minute. when you hear the mice eating the gorp, turn the light on and it wil blind them temporarily. you can then put your hand right in front of their face and thwat them on the nose with your cocked finger. they usually land about 10' outside the shelter but they do still come back. this process isn't a solution it is merely entertainment until you decide to take your cat.
geek

TurkeyBacon
12-10-2006, 13:39
Mice are part of the fun. They do not get in your sleeping bag, but they do just about anything else. Of cource they run over you, but... Bearded Monkey (magyver at the time) got a mouse fall from the rafters and land on his face with a foot in his mouth, Badger had a mouse fill the front pocket of his pack with acorns (we are talking a cubic ft worth), many people had babies born in thier boots not to mention acorns in the boots is very common, I got famous for making a mouse-pault which a mouse in the shennadoas proved didn't work, I forget the name, but someone had food in his pack and the mouse raded the toilet paper for nesting materials instead. I got my food broken in to twice (once hung from a bear pole and once from a tree but never when hung inside the shelter), interestingly enough, they only ate my GORP (both times) and the second one acually used the same hole in my food bag created by the first one. They very well may have been chipmonks?? Mice, rats, snakes, bats, porcupines... they all live in shelters somewhere on the trail. Its part of the fun.
Do bring a shelter regardless and do hang your food.
TB

rafe
12-10-2006, 21:27
I am a novice at this hiking business. I have hiked 3 small sections of the AT this year (Standing Indian, Hot Springs, and Pearisburg.) Each time out, I have tented, but I am interested in staying in a shelter. I can see some advantages to sheltering because of the weight saved by not carrying a tent. My question is, how do you deal with mice? Do they get IN your sleeping bag while you are sleeping? Do you hang your food outside the shelter so they don't get in your food bag? Thanks


Besides the shelters being full, there are other reasons you might want to tent. There can be serious snorers there... or you might be one. There might be bugs, in which case your tent might be a better place to sleep anyway. I had to walk away from a shelter once when one of the residents was suffering from... err... severe gastrointestinal distress.

Don't worry too much about the mice. They may scamper across your face while you're sleeping, or ***** in your drinking cup (if you foolishly left it out without washing it :o), but mostly they're harmless. Hang your food bag on a string under a tuna can and you'll be fine.

I don't think it's wise to rely on a berth in a shelter, ever. OTOH, I have often tented next to or near to shelters, even though there was room inside.

MOWGLI
12-10-2006, 21:29
I stayed in PATC's Highacre facility in Harpers Ferry last week. We had a mouse running around the living room among the foks staying there. Looks like mice seek out hikers.

honu
12-10-2006, 22:13
But watch out for the Alpine mice at Tray Mountain shelter. When I was there this past November I hung my food bag on the bear cables. I thought I heard someone shout "on belay" in the middle of the night but assumed I was dreaming. Woke up to discover a mouse had got past the baffles, chewed a hole through my food bag, and partied down.

And the mice at Plumorchard Gap shelter were brazen and vengeful. I had been hiking in the rain all day and, after arriving, hung stuff everywhere to drip dry as much as possible. Woke up in the middle of the night to see my pack cover swinging back and forth as mice used it for a playground. They chewed up the small piece of pack towel I had in my pack lid and through plastic bags containing my TP and other non-food items. All that just to spite me because they couldn't get to my food. :)

Dances with Mice
12-10-2006, 22:51
But watch out for the Alpine mice at Tray Mountain shelter. When I was there this past November I hung my food bag on the bear cables. I thought I heard someone shout "on belay" in the middle of the night but assumed I was dreaming. Woke up to discover a mouse had got past the baffles, chewed a hole through my food bag, and partied down.More probably a flying squirrel. They love the bear cable system.

strnorm
12-11-2006, 00:42
get yourself a hammock,:rolleyes:

neo
12-11-2006, 09:01
:D mice my a fine snack:cool: neo

Moxie00
12-11-2006, 11:41
I think it was at the Village Motel in Atkins that about six of us shared a room. I didnt hang my food bag in the motel and the mice chewed their way in and had a feast. The lesson is you are not safe anywhere from mice, even in motels and hostels. Thre only night I can remember that was mice free was at Tom Floyd Shelter in Shenondah National Park. There was both a sign and several journal entries that a large rattlesnake lived in the rocks under the shelter and he did a great job of keeping the mice away. Several hikers passed the shelter up but Burley and Knarley set up their tent in the shelter and I made sure to put on my headlamp when I got up during the night. Good night-no mice- we didn't bother the snake and he didn't bother us.

Cookerhiker
12-11-2006, 20:42
Don't make the mistake of leaving a sweaty bandana hanging from a shelter peg like I did in Sarver Shelter April '05. It was shredded the next morning - my good red ATC bandana.

rainmaker
12-11-2006, 23:53
Madame always carries a collapsible candle lantern and a nine hour candle for each night we're out. If its OK with your shelter mates hang it up around eight or nine o'clock and you will not be bothered, usually. Not very UL but great ambiance. It also helps you find your way back when nature calls .

McPick
12-14-2006, 00:32
I was "home alone" at the Laurel Falls shelter, in May, 2006. That night I was endlessly awakened by thunder storms and strange noises in the shelter. As the unusual shuffling sounds increased, I put on my light just in time to see all 12 inches of packrat dragging off one of my Crocs! The light must have disoriented it for a couple of seconds because the rat dashed back and forth across the floor of the shelter. I threw a hiking pole at it and yelled. (Ok, I cussed...) It abandoned the Croc and raced for cover, under the shelter. Then I realized one of my Croc's was missing. So I climbed down and looked under the shelter (it's VERY nasty under there). There was my Croc... way in the back. Thank goodness for long arms and hiking poles. I hung EVERYTHING up when I got back up in the shelter. Fortunately, I had all my gear when I left the next day.

Several days later I camped with a group of hikers from Delaware... Tom, Becky and Doad. After listening to my story about the packrat, Becky said they'd camped at Laurel Falls several nights before I did. Then she told me that damn rat had been pretty active the night they were there, too. In fact, it took her headlamp and she never did recover it!

eventidecu
12-14-2006, 07:02
Can't say I've had any mouse attacts but here's and idea for all us "weekend warriors", carry a small box of decon with you and put it out (under the shelter) and "thin the heard" if you will for the next guy or gail. Can't weigh much more than an ounce. Just don't mix it up with yer gorp, LOL. HIkers helpin Hikers. Things that make you go Hmmm?

StarLyte
12-14-2006, 07:34
I stayed in PATC's Highacre facility in Harpers Ferry last week. We had a mouse running around the living room among the foks staying there. Looks like mice seek out hikers.

I'll have to check out that facility Mowgli !

I've always had really bad experiences with mice, once even putting up my tent INSIDE of the shelter - no one else there of course. They ran across my tent, there was so many of them. (Hawk Mountain Shelter). Just awful.

Next night stealth tented, same thing.....they ran across my tent all night long. At least they weren't running across my face. What horror that is.

I learned when staying in a shelter to sleep in the center of the floor because the mice mostly crawl around the edges of the floors, but they still will come up to me because they know that I can't handle mice. They are so creepy. I've pulled the top of my bag almost closing it, but the mice are determined to torture me ;)

I also hang my toothpaste. I hang everything with a scent. Mostly because of bears.

You can't get away from the mice. Forget it.

Jim Adams
12-14-2006, 10:58
Take A Cat!

StarLyte
12-14-2006, 11:09
Take A Cat!

Hey Geek you rock......:banana

spittinpigeon
12-17-2006, 21:31
I only found a couple shelters where the mice were fearless. They WILL seek revenge - a fellow hiker tossed a large nest out into the snow one night and awoke to find his shoes filled with acorns.

For fun, you can try to catch them. I would set up my two inch windscreen and place a little food in the middle. When they get curious and peer over the windscreen, you can grab their tail. If you throw them in the woods they usually won't come back.

In the Shenandoahs, a few of us woke up with acorns in our shoes. There was at least one resident rat. However, we came to the conclusion that it was our fellow hikers who had left at dawn playing a prank.

hopefulhiker
12-18-2006, 14:22
I slept under a shelter once because it was full and the weather was miserable. I woke up in the middle of the night with something gnawing on my toe. I reached down and grabbed the small furry creature and hurled it out along with some curses. I'm stll not sure if it was a mouse. It might have been a vole.. In the 100 mile wilderness the animals are really aggressive. One time I left a bag of gorp out for about 10 min while I went to get water.. When I came back the whole bag had been ravaged!
Also some shelters have bear boxes. I would still hang my food. While the boxes keep the bears out, they do not keep the mice out...