another analyze gear list thread...

[namehere]

ok folks, here's a list of gear i either have in my possession or is on order:

shelter:
hilleberg nallo 2
poe insulmat hyper mtn 1.5
wm alpinlite super 20 degree
mh down liner 40 degree
winter tent stakes (tbd)

clothing
ibex long trail sweater 1/2 zip
salomon climapro hooded jacket (shell)
marmot precip plus full zip pants
wickers wool balaclava
keen targhee ii mids (event fabric)
epic lined ski gloves
light fleece long pants
poly shorts/ poly shirts (2)
smartwool socks (3)

misc
steripen adventurer
backup purifier tablets
leki poles
snow cleats (tbd)
insulated water bottles (tbd)


i would like to do some hiking this winter and am wondering if the above listed stuff is a fairly complete list of winter essentials as far as shelther and clothing go. i've done some trudging through snow here locally with either a long sleeve poly or light fleece shirt on under the shell jacket, with shorts and the precip pants and seemed fine on 30 degree days. i'd like to do a winter hike for a week or two, possibly in the smokies later this month or january. any of the items seem out of place for a winter gear list? anything else i am missing completely? for those of you wondering, yes i am a complete newbie to hiking and am planning to set everything up in the backyard before embarking on my winter hike :)

major things i have yet to figure out: pack, cooking stove, snow/ice traction device. i am hoping a 3800 cu inch pack (such as the granite gear meridian/ozone) will fit all my stuff. as well, i like the idea of freezer bag cooking, so will look to getting a reliable stove that work well in colder temps. i am not looking to shave ounces on that. after all, some of this gear will strictly be for winter hikes.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[tarbender]

My suggestion would be not to start with a trip to the smokies in January if you are not an experienced hiker. I mean this sincerely. Most of your gear looks good. I would definitely like to see you flesh out a more detailed list and maybe aim for a trip that is shorter in duration in a more forgiving location if you want to head out this winter.

-jeff aka frakenfeet

[tarbender]

Oh yeah, buy a windshirt.

[namehere]

i assumed that there would be plenty of easier trails in the GSMNP to test out my gear. after being familiarizing myself with the new gear, i'd like to go test it out in areas a bit more rugged than my backyard. being stuck in chicago, i think i need to travel at least one state away in order to find some decent hiking trails. do you think i would not be able to find an easy to moderate trail to hike somewhere in the GSMNP? if anyone has a better suggestion, please let me know.

meanwhile, i am trying to flesh out my gearlist. my plan is to do as much hiking as i can before deciding on a thru-hike next year. i may travel further south to do the hiking if the consensus is that the GSMNP is too rugged for a beginner. thanks for the info so far.

[bigcranky]

It's not the trails in the Smokies, it's the weather in January. The higher elevations generally get the worst weather in the Southeast. I'm not trying to be patronizing, but there's a big difference between walking on a nice 30-F day, and trudging through several feet of snow when it's 15-F and 50-knot winds. Everything gets so much more difficult, takes longer, and there's very little room for error. (The good news is that your body will be nicely preserved when they finally recover it later in the spring. Joke. Sort of.)

So, on to your clothing list. It actually looks pretty good. I just got back from a short weekend near Damascus, with temps in the single digits, and carried a similar set -- though I went very conservative with a winter sleeping bag. I would also recommend a big, puffy down jacket to keep you warm on breaks and in camp. Are your ski gloves waterproof? Do the liners come out? I would bring two pairs of fleece gloves and one set of waterproof shell mitts. I would also bring a second, very warm hat. In very cold winter conditions, I like to have down booties in camp -- I decided against them this weekend, and regretted that decision :( .

Your tent is fine -- but you'll need to practice setting it up by yourself in gale-force winds. At night. Without a headlamp. When you are soaking wet and can't feel your fingers. (Not a joke.)

In your situation I would carry a white-gas stove like a Whisperlight or the equivalent. Fiddling with canisters or alcohol is tough in the winter under any but ideal conditions.

I feel that I would be remiss if I didn't strongly recommend that a "complete newbie to hiking" avoid winter hiking in the Smokies in January, even at the lower elevation trails. So here's my recommendation: Hike on the AT from Damascus down to Kincora Hostel. This is ridgeline hiking at lower elevations (3000+ feet), with nice views, some good climbs, and several bail-out options if the weather turns bad. It'll give you an excellent winter hiking experience without threatening life and limb (well, not as threatening as the Smokies, anyway.) Shuttles are easy to arrange, and you can stay at Kincora and at the Lazy Fox in Damascus to start or end your hike.

Have fun and stay safe.

[Alligator]

Learning to backpack takes time. There are many processes that need to be learned, such as setting up shelter, operating a stove, staying warm-hydrated-energized, packing, prepping, etc. Starting out in the winter, alone, is not a good idea. In fact it could turn dangerous.

I recommend seeking an experienced partner for your trip, especially since you are new to backpacking in general. There's a hooking up forum here on WB, maybe you can find a buddy there.

I think your pack will be a little bit small also.

[rafe]

My suggestion would be not to start with a trip to the smokies in January if you are not an experienced hiker. I mean this sincerely.

I'll third this warning. Winter camping is a whole different trip. While I'm quite comfortable hiking solo in summer, I wouldn't dare do it solo in winter, much less in the Smokies. If summer trekking requires X amount of skill/gear/experience/endurance, then winter trekking is 2X or 3X. Just my $0.02. Be careful out there.

[refreeman]

namehere,

As you know daylight hours are much shorter in the winter. You can't get much more dangerous than night hiking on snow and ice. Bring a headlamp and at least 3 packs of extra batteries. Keep the batteries in a Ziploc bad in a shirt or jacket pocket to keep them warm. Battery life can drop to 25% at 0 degrees. At very least, when you stop to camp and cook you will be able to see what you are doing. The worst will be avoided with artificial lighting.

Refreeman

[namehere]

thanks for all the good suggestions. yes, there seems to be a bit of a learning curve, and bad winter conditions are not the best time to be learning how to set up my tent or keep my stove lit. i'll test out the new gear as soon as it comes in and try to have some degree of confidence that i could use it in more inclement weather.

i ordered the petzl tikka plus- not the best choice in extremely cold weather conditions since one is not supposed to use lithium batteries with them. i do want a winter stove that will cause me minimal hassle. what do you guys/gals use for headlamps and stoves during the winter? i was originally looking at the brasslite but if it'll be a hassle getting it to boil water in very cold conditions, perhaps i'll reconsider.

and i plan to carrry a very thin/light wool balaclava and a slightly thicker wool hat for headgear. two or three sets of heavier merino wool socks. they've worked pretty well in the 8 - 40 degree range so far when i've been taking short walks ( 1 - 4 miles). the keen targhee ii mids are working out great so far. have trudged through wet/dry snow up to six inches over a few miles in them and they've kept my feet dry.

[aaronthebugbuffet]

Check out Shawnee Nat'l Forest in Southern Illinois or Hoosier Nat'l in Indiana. They may better places to get some experience with your gear and winter hiking. They are a lot closer to Chicago and a little more forgiving than GSMNP. Not as cool as GSMNP but you will still be in the woods.

[Flying Monkey]

The list looks decent, Namehere. I'm starting at Springer in a few days, and will be in the smokies myself in January. First, I recommend that your balaclava have a nose cover if it doesn't already. When your nose is the only thing exposed, it can feel really cold. I also suggest gaiters and crampons. Gaiters will only not be handy if it doesn't snow at all, and that's not very likely. Crampons may be iffy, but I would still suggest them to handle large amounts of ice.

I completely second the above posts that call for booties and gloves + mittens. I would also suggest liner socks. Not necessary, but I feel they reduce blisters.

Have a fantastic hike, NH! I'll see you out there!

[Alligator]

Ok, having said to be careful...I have a nice windstopper balaclava from Campmor, I think the material is called hytrel. I'm a big fan of windstopper fleece for winter use. It has a nose piece. I double up a couple of items in the winter because I have been situations where the doubling up was key. I have a windstopper hat also.

I use a Princeton Tec Aurora and haven't had any battery problems. I generally carry spares but have forgotten them once or twice:o . I also carry two small backup LED's in the winter.

I prefer white gas in the winter because many warm drinks is a good idea.

[hopefulhiker]

I don't think I would start out with winter hiking in the Smokies. I had a hard enought time there in March and April of 2005.. There was this big snow storm and many hikers left the trail for a few days, just out of Fontana. This was followed by a big snow fall right out of Hot Springs at the beginning of April. One thing about hiking off season is the trail support structure, hostels, trail angels, shuttles, all of that is not as geared up as it is during regular thru hike season.. I would take a few shake down hikes near by first anyway.. Also would use gators in the snow.

[bigcranky]

Though it is possible to use an alcohol stove (like the Brasslite) in the dead of winter, it's not particularly easy. I have a Brasslite, and it's a nice little stove. Heck, I must have 15 stoves of various sorts, white gas, canister stoves, and lots of alcohol and tablet stoves, some homemade, some purchased. (I can quit any time I want.) In the dead of winter I would carry a white gas stove, probably my Whisperlite. Though it is heavier than a Brasslite stove, it is much hotter and faster, and will keep burning for a long time. It will melt snow for water, which is difficult with an alcohol stove.

When you are choosing gear for a winter hike, it helps to imagine the worst-case conditions for the area in which you'll be hiking. Then pack for those conditions. This applies double for an inexperienced hiker.

[namehere]

i went with the whisperlite expedition- worked out great. conditions were, between 25 - 40 degrees, medium to strong winds. the stove was very no-nonsense. thanks ken!

few things learned about the short hike:

1. i do need to get better form-fitting gloves for setting up the tent and lighting the stove. fingers were freezing.

2. in 25- 30 degree temps, my wm 20 bag + silk liner and thick pad were more than sufficient to keep me toasty. my nose was cold breathing in the air. either i have to work out a system to partially cover the opening of the bag's hood with the liner, or wear a balaclava. i don't like the idea of using the liner for fear that somehow in the night i start breathing into the bag. i find that if i cinch up the inner hood drawstring tight, the chances of this happening seem to be minimal. anyone do this sort of thing?

3. losing the light so early in the winter leaves alot of time around camp. the ipod and book i brought saved the night.

4. i'm stubborn when taking advice from people. points #1 and 2 were already addressed by good folk here in this thread. me, in my infinite wisdom, chose to ignore them.

i really like the ski jacket shell i have been using. only problem is that it is 1.6 pounds. for winter and travels, i think i will use this jacket- it is bombproof and i have confidence it will keep me dry and warm enough to survive up to all but the most extreme conditions. if i do decide to do extended hikes, i'll probably switch that out to something significantly lighter, like the ID thru jacket (7 ounces).


thanks for the advice folks. i feel a bit more confident that i can take on a longer trip, hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

[hammock engineer]

1. i do need to get better form-fitting gloves for setting up the tent and lighting the stove. fingers were freezing.



I just got these (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=11786027&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1) smartwool liner gloves from campmor for $17. I really like the feel of them. They should work well underneath my mittens.

I have tried the patagonia ones and they work well. I just lost one and wanted to try these out.

EDIT: I used these for 2 days and the fingers are starting to come apart at the seam. I would try to reinforce it. But it looks like it is happening on all of the fingers. I think these are going back.

[Pokey2006]

What about bringing a good down jacket? Sure, they're expensive, but incredibly warm, incredibly light, and pack down real small. Could be a life-saver on a winter trip in the mountains.

Sounds like you're hell bent on going to the Smokys in January. OK, I won't begrudge you an adventure. But consider this option: stay at Standing Bear Farm, a hostel just outside of the park. You can do some great, SAFE, dayhiking, and even leave your car there for a short overnight jaunt, if you like and if the weather is cooperating. The owners are great, they can probably give you good tips on local hiking trails and conditions, and the last I heard they were open year round. Check them out at
http://standingbearfarm.tripod.com/

[iamscottym]

I second down jackets. I always carry my tnf nuptse. Though if I had it to do over, I've get the WM one- it weighs like 10oz, as opposed to 1lb 10oz for my tnf.