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woodsy
12-09-2006, 12:37
People really should keep these pets on a leash:-?
http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2006/12/08/township_journal/news/27.txt

highway
12-09-2006, 13:00
Mountain lions are really increasing their range lately, it appears. I wonder if that one migrated southward or northward

Old Grouse
12-11-2006, 15:50
Yes, they're out there, and if the recent history in regard to turkeys, bears, coyotes, fisher cats (yesterday's Sunday NY Times) and even moose is any indication, they'll become a lot more common.

rafe
12-11-2006, 17:58
We get wild turkeys in our back yard from time to time. But I don't think I'd like to meet a mountain lion on the A.T. I read a book last fall called "Sierra Noir" by Jordan Smith. There's a chapter about a female jogger killed along the American River in CA. Smith was the park ranger in charge of the case. The whole book is worth reading, by the way.

VictoriaM
12-11-2006, 19:01
Ha! Take that, doubters! ;)

highway
12-11-2006, 19:08
The doubters are mostly east of the Mississippi-anyplace beyond the wilds of Florida. Nobody doubts them in the west.

It sure does look as if we are fortunate they are increasing their range in the east

warraghiyagey
12-11-2006, 21:52
Victoria - vindicated. :) :) :) :)

K-Man
12-12-2006, 00:13
Score one for NJ...

rswanson
12-22-2006, 17:07
I'm never going to buy stories like this until someone comes up with at least a footprint. Where's the proof???

leeki pole
12-22-2006, 17:44
We've got them here. A wildlife biologist came to my back 40 and verified it. They prey on deer, we've got plenty so it just makes sense. I don't doubt the story a bit.

Pacific Tortuga
12-22-2006, 18:15
I saw a ML kill two days ago on a trail near me in "The OC" and they are coming to a forest near you ......... soon. The AT corridor is perfect for the cats to expand their range from FLA. and breed. It's just a matter of time before a picture is taken of one on or near the Trail. Enjoy, hiking takes on a whole new feeling when your not the top preditor .

warraghiyagey
12-22-2006, 23:48
I'm never going to buy stories like this until someone comes up with at least a footprint. Where's the proof???
Whether or not any person chooses to believe is not the least bit germaine to the topic. It is odd, however that some people flatly refuse to believe the existence of mountain lions, puma, catamount, panthers, cougars or whatever the local reference is. These species once roamed all of north america and still roam large portions of this land stealthily and undercover as the species is want to do. And like many native species, they are taking back their domain, one pawprint at a time. This is a good thing, they are to be admired, not feared, we are not their prey - we just suffer the lore that dictates an unnatural fear of them.

rafe
12-22-2006, 23:56
Whether or not any person chooses to believe is not the least bit germaine to the topic. It is odd, however that some people flatly refuse to believe the existence of mountain lions, puma, catamount, panthers, cougars or whatever the local reference is. These species once roamed all of north america and still roam large portions of this land stealthily and undercover as the species is want to do. And like many native species, they are taking back their domain, one pawprint at a time. This is a good thing, they are to be admired, not feared, we are not their prey - we just suffer the lore that dictates an unnatural fear of them.


Magnificent creatures, for sure. But I'd prefer them from a safe distance, thank you. Have you read "Sierra Noir" (Jordan Fisher Smith.) True stories. One chapter describes an encounter between a female jogger and a mountain lion. It didn't work out well for either of them.

warraghiyagey
12-23-2006, 01:16
Magnificent creatures, for sure. But I'd prefer them from a safe distance, thank you. Have you read "Sierra Noir" (Jordan Fisher Smith.) True stories. One chapter describes an encounter between a female jogger and a mountain lion. It didn't work out well for either of them.

That's what I mean about the lore. One book, one instance and that's all people want to know. Quite a few years back there was an unfortunate incident on the trail in PA. Most everyone probably knows about it. And that one instance is very much reflected on the reactions of friends and family (and I'm sure I'm not alone here) when you explain that you're going on the trail. "Are you sure it's safe?" or some facsimile thereof that goes into more detail.
But every year since hundreds have walked the length of the trail without being visited by those tragic circumstances.
That chapter is one story, one instance and it sells because it's a trainwreck we can't help but be fascinated by. But it is not a fair reflection of the reality of the wild within their own habitat any more than the trail is a place that you will meet a nefarious end.

Peace:) :) :)

rafe
12-23-2006, 01:29
That's what I mean about the lore. One book, one instance and that's all people want to know.

It's not going to keep me out of the woods, but it's not a story I'm going to relate to my wife before embarking on my next section hike ;). Know what I mean?

As it stands, I'm skeptical of the alleged sightings. I'd probably take this more seriously if/when there's a documented attack on the AT corridor. If that were to happen, I'm sure the media would be all over the story... and I suspect the wayward (and unfortunate) animal would meet a sorry end, just as it did in the American River incident.

warraghiyagey
12-23-2006, 02:03
It's not going to keep me out of the woods, but it's not a story I'm going to relate to my wife before embarking on my next section hike ;). Know what I mean?

As it stands, I'm skeptical of the alleged sightings. I'd probably take this more seriously if/when there's a documented attack on the AT corridor. If that were to happen, I'm sure the media would be all over the story... and I suspect the wayward (and unfortunate) animal would meet a sorry end, just as it did in the American River incident.

We chased these and other wonderful creatures from their habitat almost to the point of total destuction yet they live on. It is incumbent on us to give them enough world to survive. Tens of thousands walk unchecked through their habitat across this continent every year.
Their existence needn't be feared. Can an unpleasant incident happen. Yes, as with any scenario that one could experience on any given day. There are many creatures that could harm us out there, imagine looking up at a moose in Maine. It's not likely enough to even consider. The Cats are predators certainly, but they do not prey on humans. The reported instances of Cat-human contact are there. But so are videos of hapless hunters being attacked by standing deer. But we're not taught to fear deer for obvious reasons.
We shouldn't be taught to fear the Cats either but to respect them as we should the deer, moose . . . the other creatures.
I want to know that the Big Cat is out there, I want to share the woods with him, awed by the silent breeze of his motion. Stricken by the sight of him sunning on remote rocks. Knowing that my species knew to let him have his place, and that he knows I mean him no harm, and he lets me have mine.

rafe
12-23-2006, 02:08
I want to know that the Big Cat is out there, I want to share the woods with him, awed by the silent breeze of his motion. Stricken by the sight of him sunning on remote rocks. Knowing that my species knew to let him have his place, and that he knows I mean him no harm, and he lets me have mine.

I want to know he's there, but not necessarily meet him up close and personal. Moose are not threatening, least not to me. Seen 'em up close, didn't feel the least bit of fear. I've given up on my own species. You can have 'em. ;)

warraghiyagey
12-23-2006, 02:17
I want to know he's there, but not necessarily meet him up close and personal. Moose are not threatening, least not to me. Seen 'em up close, didn't feel the least bit of fear. I've given up on my own species. You can have 'em. ;)
No thanks man. I'll just take most of the ones I meet on the trail, and talk about the trail. Those are the good people. The cool Cats if you will. BTW, I think I was right behind you SOBO this summer. Did you leave Katahdin around the end of June? It seems I read your entries all the way to Dalton.
Nice work on the Big Cat topic. I hope to see one this year. I'm heading out again from Katahdin in June with a more proper budget.
Peace:) :)

rafe
12-23-2006, 02:45
No thanks man. I'll just take most of the ones I meet on the trail, and talk about the trail. Those are the good people. The cool Cats if you will. BTW, I think I was right behind you SOBO this summer. Did you leave Katahdin around the end of June? It seems I read your entries all the way to Dalton.
Nice work on the Big Cat topic. I hope to see one this year. I'm heading out again from Katahdin in June with a more proper budget.
Peace:) :)


It wasn't me you were following from Katahdin. I have indeed done Katahdin to Dalton, but it was done over a stretch of about... oh... 14 or 15 years. I more or less "wrapped up" Maine about 5 yrs ago and have been working my way generally southward. This yr's hike was in NY/NJ/PA, ending at Lehigh Gap.

rswanson
12-27-2006, 11:21
Whether or not any person chooses to believe is not the least bit germaine to the topic. It is odd, however that some people flatly refuse to believe the existence of mountain lions, puma, catamount, panthers, cougars or whatever the local reference is. These species once roamed all of north america and still roam large portions of this land stealthily and undercover as the species is want to do. And like many native species, they are taking back their domain, one pawprint at a time. This is a good thing, they are to be admired, not feared, we are not their prey - we just suffer the lore that dictates an unnatural fear of them.
It sure as hell is germaine! I'm not doubting that there are cougars east of the Mississippi; perhaps I could've phrased my statement better. I've read about scat and kills, confirmed by experts but there are far more stories floating around about mountain lions than I can accept to be true. Anyone who applies common sense to this topic will have to admit that most of these are far more likely to be sensationalistic than legitimate. A sighting without some sort of corroborative evidence is highly suspect in my eyes.

MOWGLI
12-27-2006, 13:06
Whether or not any person chooses to believe is not the least bit germaine to the topic.

Of course it is. One person says they saw a Mountain Lion in New Jersey, and a bunch of folks take that to mean that they not only are there, but that they are breeding and thriving. Nothing has been proven.

Believe me when I say that no one would like to see them come back more than me. But I need more than Joe Schmo claiming he saw a Mountain Lion. In northern New Jersey.

MOWGLI
12-27-2006, 13:10
I'll add that I found one of the first porcupines in Sterling Forest State Park in New York. They recolonized the area after being extirpated for years.

I called in a road kill to the State Park office in the 90s, and the Ranger told me - "Oh, that's just a racoon." I told her to get in her vehicle and go look for herself. It was definitely a Porky. She called me back to thank me. Apparently it was the first positive ID of a Porky in years.

My point? I have no idea!

Sly
12-27-2006, 13:24
I don't believe dogs look like cats, coyotes look like bobcats or the story. See a mountain lion would stop one in their tracks! No one in their right mind would follow one down the trail, but we are talking about a mountain biker here!

rafe
12-27-2006, 14:34
I'll add that I found one of the first porcupines in Sterling Forest State Park in New York. They recolonized the area after being extirpated for years.

Saw my first real-live porcupine in-the-wild on the Kitatinny ridge, near Gren Anderson shelter this last summer. It was right smack in the trail and blocking my path. It took a lot of coaxing to get that fat porker to leave the trail so I could move on. Glad I got to see 'im though.

leeki pole
01-11-2007, 15:35
It sure as hell is germaine! I'm not doubting that there are cougars east of the Mississippi; perhaps I could've phrased my statement better. I've read about scat and kills, confirmed by experts but there are far more stories floating around about mountain lions than I can accept to be true. Anyone who applies common sense to this topic will have to admit that most of these are far more likely to be sensationalistic than legitimate. A sighting without some sort of corroborative evidence is highly suspect in my eyes.
Tell you what, swannie...I've got a GameSpy camera that I photo deer, coons, possums, etc. with. It's in my back 40 over a food plot. If I get a photo of one (it may be May or June, that's when we hear them the most often), would that be enough proof?:cool:

Gray Blazer
01-11-2007, 15:58
We chased these and other wonderful creatures from their habitat almost to the point of total destuction yet they live on.

Knowing that my species knew to let him have his place, and that he knows I mean him no harm, and he lets me have mine.
I didn't chase anyone anywhere. Speak for yourself. Since I believe you and I are the same species....I want to know....did "we" chase these wonderful creatures or did "we" know to let him have his place? I doubt he "knows" "we" mean him no harm. You would be very lucky to see one of these creatures. I saw a black panther while I was driving in my car late one night in Wacahoota. Just remember, his teeth are probably the last thing his victims see.

buckowens
01-11-2007, 18:18
I have seen big cat footprints while hiking in New Mexico. Really gets you looking around a bunch more! The sign at the beginning of the trail said that if you encounter one, stand still and do not run. Probably much easier said than done...

icemanat95
01-11-2007, 18:56
I've got a buddy who watched a mountain lion prowling through his hunting property in Maine. He was in a permanent tree-stand/blind he had built, and just watched it for a while. He later went out and tracked it. Turns out his hunting camp is right there in its range. He found plenty of scats, tracks, etc. in the area to demonstrate the cat was "in residence."

There have been MANY sightings throughout New Hampshire that, while not officially recognized through press-releases and such, are acknowledged off-the-record by wildlife folks to be real. The thing is, sightings do NOT equal a self-sustaining breeding population. Mountain lions can cover a lot of ground on their own and are solitary creatures, so the idea of a mountain lion or two taking a walkabout several hundred miles away from their breeding ground isn't unreasonable, but if they don't find a breeding partner in that range, they'll just die out on their own without replacing themselves. That said, the fact that the things are coming down from Canada and up from Florida with greater regularity speaks of an expanding range and the likelihood that breeding populations will eventually establish themselves throughout the Appalachians.

They are magnificent animals, but the scare the bejeezus out of me. I've seen a few at zoos and wildlife centers, and I'm damned happy to have them on the other side of the fence.

oldfivetango
01-11-2007, 20:00
One summer in the 90's I spotted a LARGE black cat,about the size
of a medium sized dog.My guess would be about 40 pounds and I
was close enought to see it had Lynx boxy shaped ears.This was in
central Georgia.The first time he was in a roadway I used to access
some property and he was in no hurry to get across it as it was
QUITE apparent that he owned it.The second time was about a month
later when I observed him hunting mice(sorry Socrates) on the edge of
an oxidation pond which it was my duty to monitor.I was not scared the
second time as I was using a vehicle but the first time was on foot and
it was a bit unnerving.Ok,I turned around and beat it outta there the
first time.It was DEFINITELY NOT the usual bobcat we have here as
they are small like a poodle.This thing was more on the order of a small
Labrador retreiver.I speak the truth.Have fun but always beware of the
surroundings.
Oldfivetango

copythat
01-12-2007, 01:15
Believe me when I say that no one would like to see them come back more than me. But I need more than Joe Schmo claiming he saw a Mountain Lion. In northern New Jersey.


i'm with you, mowgli: a big-cat agnostic. i have heard occasional reports of sightings here in ct ever since i migrated from ny, and the official response has always been: maybe, but we haven't seen it. no scat. no prints. no kill.

i am curious, though ... what've you got against the schmoes of northern n.j.? didn't you grow up across the river? you still angry about that giants parade thing? :eek:

Lilred
01-12-2007, 16:18
I have seen big cat footprints while hiking in New Mexico. Really gets you looking around a bunch more! The sign at the beginning of the trail said that if you encounter one, stand still and do not run. Probably much easier said than done...

That's prolly why that women out in CA got eaten. She was jogging. Once you start running away from a carnivore, you're prey. That's why you should never run. Play dead or fight back.

hopefulhiker
01-12-2007, 16:39
My uncle used to raise mountain lions until he gave them to Hugh Morton who kept them at Grandfather Mtn.. He also had an ocelot and a jacurundi.. Anyway he said that the Eastern mtn lion has been extinct for many years. There is a western couger and a florida panther.. but no eastern mountain lions left...

ImkerVS
01-16-2007, 19:19
From the Erwin Record, TN:
http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=592&NewsID=620529&CategoryID=4088&on=1
[/URL]

Are cougars once again roaming the mountains of Unicoi County?

03/27/05
By Bryan Stevens -- Staff Writer
Respond to this story
[URL="http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpid=592&show=emailnews&newsid=620529"]Email this story to a friend (http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=592&NewsID=620529&CategoryID=4088&on=1)

The cougar, or mountain lion, is supposedly extinct in Tennessee.
That fact hasn’t stopped the persistent claims of sightings of the big cat by various people throughout the years. Whether in spirit or in the flesh, the cougar still haunts the ridges and hollows of the local mountains.
But Unicoi resident Kenneth Ingram insists he didn’t see a ghost when he awoke at four in the morning this past New Year’s Day.
“My hunting dog is tied in the backyard,” Ingram said. “He woke me up, and I could tell he was mad.”
In fact, the nocturnal disturbances began several nights before. Each time he awoke, he turned on lights, which he believed spooked the animal.
“I could hear something going up through the woods,” he said.
His dog, a mountain fiest named Zeb, alerted him each time the nocturnal prowler came calling.
On Jan. 1, however, Ingram changed his routine. He did not turn on any lights but instead grabbed a spotlight, slid open a door and shined the spotlight on a section of an old logging road located behind his home. “I saw it right in the middle of that old road,” he said. “Its body was at least three feet long with a tail about two or two-and-a-half feet long.”
Ingram said the cat, unhappy at the unexpected attention, jumped back into the woods at the edge of the road. “I guess it was mad I shined the spotlight on it,” he said. “It jumped probably eight feet.”
Ingram, who owns seven acres adjacent to National Forest lands on Buffalo Mountain, has lived in Unicoi County for the past 19 years.
“I’ve seen everything in the woods from bear to bobcat to coyote,” he said. “This was a first.”
Since that sighting, the cat has advertised its presence with tracks and has also been heard on a couple of occasions. Ingram and some of his friends heard the cat a couple of weeks ago.
“We heard a sort of barking growl,” Ingram said. He noted that one of his friends knew at once that a cat produced the sound.
Tennessee is one of the most biodiverse states in the nation. Currently there are 315 species of fish, 77 mammals, 56 reptiles, 70 amphibians and more than 340 birds known to inhabit or migrate through Tennessee.
The cougar (Felis concolor) is not among those totals. This big cat apparently vanished from the state before 1900. Known also by such common names as panther, puma, mountain lion and catamount, the extermination of the cougar from much of the eastern United States can be explained by unregulated hunting and trapping.
Numerous sources of information describe the cougar as extremely wary of humans.
Even in the western United States, where the cougar remains relatively common in appropriate habitat, these large cats are rarely seen in the wild. The cougar can reach a length of seven to nine feet, although almost a third of that total includes the cat’s long tail, and adults can weigh between 150 and 200 pounds.
The only native cat considered present in Tennessee by many experts is the bobcat (Lynx rufus), which can weigh about 30 pounds, stand two feet tall at the shoulder and reach a length of about four feet.
Sightings by human observers of bobcats, which like cougars are wary, are infrequent.
Joe McGuiness, an Erwin resident who works as the North Zone wildlife biologist with the Cherokee National Forest under the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Forest Service, said he has seen a bobcat in Sullivan County but not in Unicoi County.
“I’m pretty sure we have bobcats in Unicoi County, but they are very secretive,” McGuiness said.
McGuiness said he has never seen a cougar in the region.
The district office of the Forest Service in Unicoi, however, gets one to three reports each year of cougar sightings, McGuiness said.
“We forward the reports to the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency,” he said. Victor Deyton, a TWRA wildlife officer for Unicoi County, does get calls from people claiming to have observed cougars. “I give them the benefit of the doubt,” Deyton said. Could the cougar have retained or re-established a foothold in Tennessee?

woodsy
11-08-2007, 15:03
Has the Jersey Cat moved to SW Conn? Or are they breeding and dispersing?

SHELTON, Conn. -- Shelton police are warning people to be on the lookout for a mountain lion.Police got three calls Friday morning from drivers who said they spotted what appeared to be a cat-like animal the size of a small deer on Route 108 near Lake Road.After comparing it to pictures on the Internet, police said they believe it may be a mountain lion.


They are asking anyone who spots it to call them right away.

MOWGLI
11-08-2007, 16:06
Has the Jersey Cat moved to SW Conn? Or are they breeding and dispersing?

SHELTON, Conn. -- Shelton police are warning people to be on the lookout for a mountain lion.Police got three calls Friday morning from drivers who said they spotted what appeared to be a cat-like animal the size of a small deer on Route 108 near Lake Road.After comparing it to pictures on the Internet, police said they believe it may be a mountain lion.


They are asking anyone who spots it to call them right away.

No doubt it is stalking pugs in the area. :rolleyes:

taildragger
11-08-2007, 16:38
MW is right, the the first cat that had been killed in a long time in OK was from way up north originally (MT or one of the Dakota's, cannot remember).

The farmer next to where I hunt has been telling the wildlife officials that he's been seeing one for years, and a ma and two kits apparently surrounded a seasoned hunter during black powder season. All of those sightings are on major river systems (easy pathways and good sources for food).

I always thought that they might exists, and one day I saw a large cat print (I thought it was a huge dog print, but no claws on the prints) and I just shrugged it off. Later that day I went to trail a deer that I had shot at and missed (people where giving me hell for only staying on the trail for 30 yds when I knew I had missed, so I decided to appease them by doing some serious trailing). At the end of the trail, I saw where a deer had been laid out on the floor and had been bleeding (recently, the blood was still wet when I got there), and I could see where it had been drug across the forest floor. I found the kill cleaned, and started to worry about hogs. I've seen no sign of hogs on this place, and thats when I looked up into the trees and saw other parts of the deer. It felt eery so I slowly backed out and walked back to my car.

I later told one of the wildlife biologists that I know about that, and thats when I learned about the neighbors sightings. He said that a kill that I described wasn't critters, something that would kill a deer like that is a cat. My treestand is about 200 yds from that kill. I don't really mind that theres a cat there, I figure that I'm bigger than the deer that its hunting, and probably a little more intimidating, so I don't think he'll give me any guff.

Yukon
11-08-2007, 17:05
I saw a beautiful Mountain Lion not to long ago (few weeks maybe)...wish I had my camera on me that day...

woodsy
11-09-2007, 05:53
This recent news article (http://www.wpxi.com/news/14540017/detail.html) has a decent picture of a BIG Cat on the prowl
Keep your cameras handy

NICKTHEGREEK
11-09-2007, 06:55
This recent news article (http://www.wpxi.com/news/14540017/detail.html) has a decent picture of a BIG Cat on the prowl
Keep your cameras handy
A Pitt Panther for sure

warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 10:16
This recent news article (http://www.wpxi.com/news/14540017/detail.html) has a decent picture of a BIG Cat on the prowl
Keep your cameras handy

Hey Woodsy. Guess what I saw when I was bird watching? Looked just like this guy in the article only was black - somewhere around. . . oh, let's just say Caratunk.:) :)

woodsy
11-09-2007, 10:20
Hey Woodsy. Guess what I saw when I was bird watching? Looked just like this guy in the article only was black - somewhere around. . . oh, let's just say Caratunk.:) :)
Lets see the picture, or was your camera broke again:rolleyes:

warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 10:28
Lets see the picture, or was your camera broke again:rolleyes:
No, I got pictures. I just have to. . . uh. . . download them from. . . my - hey. . . look over there - zoink

Tin Man
11-09-2007, 11:16
A Pitt Panther for sure

Looks like a Nittany Lion to me.

mtnkngxt
11-09-2007, 15:13
Newsflash everyone Mountain Lions are here to stay. They may not have made their way down to Damascus, but over the summer I saw one from about 30 feet away while walking down the Chief Bengie Trail at High Knob. Scared me to death I thought my heart was going to burst out of my chest. It growled and I slowly backed away making myself look as big as possible. Now I carry a good sharpened 6 inch blade with me clipped to my shoulder strap. I know it would do little good and it adds weight, but it helps with my piece of mind.

Flush2wice
11-09-2007, 15:47
Here's an interesting article about lions in the Smokies. http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/04_03/04_16_03/mtn_voices.html
2 quick stories-
1. 10 years ago when I first moved here (near Roan Mountain), I lived with a friend for a few months until I found a place. One day his neighbor came over and said the previous night after hearing commotion he shined a light out his back door and saw a mountain lion on the roof of his chicken coop. I didn't particularly believe him because I didn't know the guy. Then about 3 months ago my friend (the guy that I lived with) said he was in his driveway watching a doe and her fawn walk across a field and into the woods. A few seconds later they came running out with a mountain lion chasing them. He said he was absolutely positive, and I do believe this guy.

2. Back when I was in high school I went backpacking with about 5 friends in the Shining Rock area. It was January, cold and we were in 2 tents about 20 feet apart. We were in bags but still talking about 10 or 11pm. Suddenly there was an ear peircing blood curdling scream that came from a direction away from the tents, but probably not more than 50 feet away. To say it scared the bejesus out of us would be an understatement. We assumed it was a bobcat but now with increased sightings of lions....? Who knows.
Does anyone know if bobcats can make a scream noise? It sounded like a woman screaming.

dessertrat
11-09-2007, 15:50
Newsflash everyone Mountain Lions are here to stay. They may not have made their way down to Damascus, but over the summer I saw one from about 30 feet away while walking down the Chief Bengie Trail at High Knob. Scared me to death I thought my heart was going to burst out of my chest. It growled and I slowly backed away making myself look as big as possible. Now I carry a good sharpened 6 inch blade with me clipped to my shoulder strap. I know it would do little good and it adds weight, but it helps with my piece of mind.

It is probably not going to help if a mountain lion jumps on you from behind, which is their preferred method. But a mountain lion is unlikely to attack something bigger than itself. Most lion attacks out west are on small women or on children.

The knife may be foolish given the odds of a frontal attack by a mountain lion, but don't think that you couldn't kill a mountain lion with it. You just might; a guy killed a grizzly bear with a knife recently in Canada, as it was on top of him and attacking him.

Also, pepper spray might work on a cat too.

warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 16:33
Geez, I never thought of pepper spraying a cat, seems kind of mean, but funny in a cartoon kind of way.:)

nonconformist
11-09-2007, 17:14
We chased these and other wonderful creatures from their habitat almost to the point of total destuction yet they live on. It is incumbent on us to give them enough world to survive. Tens of thousands walk unchecked through their habitat across this continent every year.
Their existence needn't be feared. Can an unpleasant incident happen. Yes, as with any scenario that one could experience on any given day. There are many creatures that could harm us out there, imagine looking up at a moose in Maine. It's not likely enough to even consider. The Cats are predators certainly, but they do not prey on humans. The reported instances of Cat-human contact are there. But so are videos of hapless hunters being attacked by standing deer. But we're not taught to fear deer for obvious reasons.
We shouldn't be taught to fear the Cats either but to respect them as we should the deer, moose . . . the other creatures.
I want to know that the Big Cat is out there, I want to share the woods with him, awed by the silent breeze of his motion. Stricken by the sight of him sunning on remote rocks. Knowing that my species knew to let him have his place, and that he knows I mean him no harm, and he lets me have mine.

Warri'gey, I have to concur with you that my thoughts are along the lines of your own when it comes to wildlife. I want to be in their presence and enjoy knowing that my exposure to them caused them no ill will.

Terrapin, you had better be wary of moose, a moose is as dangerous an animal as there exists in the wilds. It's essentially a wild 1500lb horse walking through the same woods as you. Climbing a tree when in moose territory during the rut has happened more times than I can recount. No wild animal should be summarily dismissed as 'not dangerous'. Just run into a rabid raccoon one day and see how frightened you get.

Now, I may be new here, but I'm not new to the wilds; actually I am a past member of the Florida Panther Research Team, and very well versed on mountain lions as a critter. The Florida Panther's range does not extend North of the Gerogia/Florida stateline at this time. There are some individual cats roaming the upper portions of the State of Florida; but none that were known to have entered Georgia to date.

There has been a major resurgence of the Eastern Mountain Lion, coming down from Eastern Canadian Provinces into Northern NY, VT, NH, and ME, during the past decade. These cats have been sighted as far South as Western Mass/Berkshires; and it would not be unusual for one to be in Western NJ along the Apppalician Mountains at this time. It was part of their original range, before the Eastern Mountain Lion was driven North by colonization/industrialization of the East Coast during the past 200 years. Mountain lions follow their prey species, in this case deer; as confidently as any of us might follow blazes on the AT. What I am saying is that, regardless of manmade borders, these cats will travel wherever they do not feel threathened by the prescence of man. I'd suspect that with the hunting seasons underway in many Eastern States at this time, the sound of gunfire will keep these cats mostly to the shadows, with an occassional sighting of an animal or track. Hopefully the general public will not be whipped into a froth by the media's coverage of the cat's arrival to the area; and call for a hunt to be conducted. As long as people respect the cat's place in the wilderness everything should be fine. These cats see no meal in Fiffie, or Tigger, those are coyote sized meals; rather, a cat is'nt going to waste it's time downing something less than a deer when it needs to feed......So let your chubbier hiking pals trail you!

PS I'm currently in NJ myself checking into this sighting.

nonconformist
11-09-2007, 17:32
Here's an interesting article about lions in the Smokies. http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/04_03/04_16_03/mtn_voices.html
2 quick stories-
1. 10 years ago when I first moved here (near Roan Mountain), I lived with a friend for a few months until I found a place. One day his neighbor came over and said the previous night after hearing commotion he shined a light out his back door and saw a mountain lion on the roof of his chicken coop. I didn't particularly believe him because I didn't know the guy. Then about 3 months ago my friend (the guy that I lived with) said he was in his driveway watching a doe and her fawn walk across a field and into the woods. A few seconds later they came running out with a mountain lion chasing them. He said he was absolutely positive, and I do believe this guy.

2. Back when I was in high school I went backpacking with about 5 friends in the Shining Rock area. It was January, cold and we were in 2 tents about 20 feet apart. We were in bags but still talking about 10 or 11pm. Suddenly there was an ear peircing blood curdling scream that came from a direction away from the tents, but probably not more than 50 feet away. To say it scared the bejesus out of us would be an understatement. We assumed it was a bobcat but now with increased sightings of lions....? Who knows.
Does anyone know if bobcats can make a scream noise? It sounded like a woman screaming.

I'd say it was a good chance that both instances you report above were valid mountain lion sightings based on your statements. Bobcat's cries sound very mellow next to that of a mountain lion.

Hiking down the trail with hiking poles, or not, you don't look remotely like a deer, or other common prey for a mountain lion. ALWAYS fight back when attacked by a wild animal, especially cats. When a wild animal attacks you it's Life and Death and anything goes, kick, punch, tear, gouge, use a knife if you have one. Just remember that mountain lion has ten knives to your one, plus SERIOUS canines, being used at lightening speed. To test your reflexs go find a farm cat and wrestle with it for a minute to see what you'll be up against....now increase the weight of that cat by 125lbs and you have serious trouble on your hands. Whatever you do, do NOT run when you see a mountain lion, that kicks in it's predator response and you are now 'the deer'....God help you then. Rather, stand facing it, do NOT make eye contact just look in it's general direction, at it's paws or over it's head. Try to discern whether the cat is resting or poised to run or leap by noticing the direction it is facing. If the cat has it's head turned toward you, but it's body is facing away remain calm and start talking loudly while backing away. Do not take your eyes off the cat's whereabouts, stay in the open where it can see you, and you it. Generally a vigorous wave of your arms with hiking poles should frighten it off while yelling, they're not housecats and don't want a human interaction.

faarside
11-09-2007, 17:34
I'm never going to buy stories like this until someone comes up with at least a footprint. Where's the proof???

There will always be skeptics; however, whether folks "buy it" or not is of no particular concern or consequence. Ignorance simply breeds foolishness, and we should not ignore warnings. There ARE documented sightings...

http://www.americans-working-together.com/new_jersey/id20.html

... we should be cautious of these magnificant creatures, and educate ourselves regarding their environment and behavior, in the same way any hiker educates oneself on topics related to safety on the trail.

dessertrat
11-09-2007, 17:39
There will always be skeptics; however, whether folks "buy it" or not is of no particular concern or consequence. Ignorance simply breeds foolishness, and we should not ignore warnings. There ARE documented sightings...

http://www.americans-working-together.com/new_jersey/id20.html

... we should be cautious of these magnificant creatures, and educate ourselves regarding their environment and behavior, in the same way any hiker educates oneself on topics related to safety on the trail.

Although I would like to think there are a lot of mountain lions out there, with the other animals, we almost always see far more sign than animal. For example, I often see bear sign in the woods, but have only once seen a bear, and briefly. Where is all the cougar scat? Where are the footprints? It shows up only rarely. I believe there are a few mountain lions in the east, but certainly not very many at all.

mudhead
11-09-2007, 19:17
So for conversations sake. I am out after a light fresh snow. There the tracks are... Fur too...

Do I grab the fur before going home for the camera? Who gets contacted? I do not trust the NPS or the Maine Warden's Service. Would rather keep mum than create a circus. But someone should be alerted.

MOWGLI
11-09-2007, 19:21
There ARE documented sightings...

http://www.americans-working-together.com/new_jersey/id20.html


Everybody knows that Mountain Lions stay away from FedEx trucks. They prefer UPS. Something to do with the brown. :rolleyes:

warraghiyagey
11-09-2007, 20:50
Noncomformist - thanks so much for the knowledgable information. IT's this understanding that is necessary if these creatures are ever going to be allowed to exist. Fear factor alone nearly wiped them from existence.
Your advice about meeting one in the wild is spot on from what I've experienced and read.
Mudhead - I also find myself in the conundrum of whether or not to inform anyone and create a hysteria. The reason they're rarely seen is because of there preference of stealth, it's how they live - rather than being consigned to oblivion.

woodsy
11-09-2007, 22:16
It is good to see someone like Noncomformist here, I don't know him but he sounds like someone who knows what he is talking about .
He is offering good advice(IMO) to those who may encounter a Big Cat in the future.
Plenty of naysayers out there but i have close personal contacts here in Maine with Big Cat sightings over the years.
I agree they are here and in other areas of the Appalachians.

PS I'm currently in NJ myself checking into this sighting.

Are you working with USFW or freelancing? Or some other wildlife research group?
Thanks for the reply in advance

mtnkngxt
11-09-2007, 22:46
I absolutely agree with all of you. I am not in any way against having these big cats roaming free. I wish we could return this continent to the way it once was. Hence the reason when I came upon the cat I made myself as large as possible and gave it it's space. I would never attack any animal or threaten one by not giving it it's room, but as you say if the time comes that an unprovoked attack occurs I have something to help even the odds however little that may be. If I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes I would've called BS on anyone who told the story. It seems to me though that it is a reasonable idea that these creatures could be more or less using the AT corridor to move up and down the eastcoast.

warraghiyagey
11-10-2007, 03:09
Doubtful that they are using the AT corridor per se. They roam without particular boundaries, but more general ones. Steering wide of cities and thickly populated areas.
It's so good to hear people speak of them without fear or worse. They're just creatures given the same place to live as we were. Whether or not they do is a reflection of us as a whole.

highway
12-04-2007, 06:20
Has the Jersey Cat moved to SW Conn? Or are they breeding and dispersing?

SHELTON, Conn. -- Shelton police are warning people to be on the lookout for a mountain lion.Police got three calls Friday morning from drivers who said they spotted what appeared to be a cat-like animal the size of a small deer on Route 108 near Lake Road.After comparing it to pictures on the Internet, police said they believe it may be a mountain lion.


They are asking anyone who spots it to call them right away.

I wonder what they intended to do, assuming they were called?

4eyedbuzzard
12-04-2007, 09:27
Terrapin, you had better be wary of moose, a moose is as dangerous an animal as there exists in the wilds. It's essentially a wild 1500lb horse walking through the same woods as you. Climbing a tree when in moose territory during the rut has happened more times than I can recount. No wild animal should be summarily dismissed as 'not dangerous'. Just run into a rabid raccoon one day and see how frightened you get.

Second on the moose warning. They aren't generally afraid of humans. They're both territorial and especially protective of their young in spring and can also be extra aggressive during rut. Both bulll and cow moose will literally kick you're ass (and the rest of you) to death. Sometimes they are very docile and you can get close, other times they'll get aggressive. BIG wild animal. Respect. 'Nuff said.

sasquatch2014
12-04-2007, 23:03
Face it hikers are no longer at the top of the food chain. Do not confuse the diffrence of a black bear and cougar in terms of their peredatory nature. Having lived out in the Rocky Mt West and having had a few run ins with Mt Lions it adds to the experience to be out there and know that opposible thumbs or not the food chain has changed and we are not at the top. I don't really change how I do things but is nice to know that they are there. Hell I am one of those that would love to have wolves up in the north woods again (or Central Park).

sasquatch2014
12-16-2007, 14:06
I just came across this pic that is posted here.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/5/7/9/2/24mountain_lion_4-med-med_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=8427&c=searchresults&searchid=11874)

If there is one in NY there can be one in NJ. Will make you look at paw prints in the snow twice won't it.