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beas
12-10-2006, 11:14
My wonderful wife is working on a quilt for me. I need to know the best insulation and to what loft it needs to be. Also what outer material would be preferred? I am looking at nylon ripstop. I will be wanting something to the 20 degree rating.I don't intend on needing a bag that low often but you know I don't want to be miserable. I may ask her to quilt a second for spring summer fall or can I get the same useage from one quilt. No down, I prefer synthetic. How much can I expect these to weigh?
Are these really better than bags?
Thanks
BEAS

Just Jeff
12-10-2006, 12:31
Depends on what you mean by "better." Lighter, yes. Just as comfortable? Depends on you...some folks don't like the drafts. I like quilts better than bags, though.

For insulation, check out the Clima-Shield at thru-hiker.com.

I wouldn't want to hike with a 20F bag in summer, but it can be done. Aside from stifling under there, that's a lot of extra weight and bulk to carry when you don't need it.

beas
12-10-2006, 13:53
I guess when I was asking for better I was meaning, what are advantages of one over the other.
What level of loft will I need? I found a formula somewhere telling certain layers or thickness will give "x" degree rating. I can't find it now.
BEAS

Just Jeff
12-10-2006, 14:43
The biggest advantage is weight, and it's also easier to ventilate...you can just stick a leg out or fluff up one side real quick to vent some heat. The disadvantage is that it can be drafty if you roll over a lot and they don't come with hoods. Wearing a hat, that you're probably already carrying anyway, is an acceptable (and weight-saving) answer for most temps, though it's not quite as warm.

Just remember to roll inside the quilt, rather than rolling with the bag, and you'll learn to manage the drafts.

Check here for the table. The thru-hiker kit is based on this quilt.
http://www.newsushi.net/quilt.html

gardenville
12-11-2006, 00:55
I guess when I was asking for better I was meaning, what are advantages of one over the other.
What level of loft will I need? I found a formula somewhere telling certain layers or thickness will give "x" degree rating. I can't find it now.
BEAS

If you post the size of the quilt you are thinking about making I should be able to figure the amount of insulation needed and a close weight for your finished quilt. It will be for 20 degrees unless you tell me a different temperature.

The best insulation that is easy to get is Climashield XP from Thru-Hiker.com.

beas
12-11-2006, 02:09
I am a 5'10 skinny fella. I am sizing the quilt for 78 x 42 at the starting measurements for the rectangular pieces before starting the folding operation. I suppose you just double or tripple the insulation material to achieve the temp rating you want? I may back off the temp rating to 30. I know that sounds wishy washy but just trying to make it the most all around quilt I can. I figured that a 20 might get me through the fall winter, and spring and just use a fleece for the summer.
I really appreciate your input.
BEAS

gardenville
12-11-2006, 03:16
This is almost all about simple math. You need to know a few things. Your quilt at 78 by 42 is 2.53 sq yards. That is the amount of material plus seam allowance necessary for your quilt. You need the top fabric and the bottom fabric. The material you use normally has little to do with the quilts temp rating. It does have a lot to do with being waterproof or breathable. the 2.53 sq yard number will also be used to determine how much insulation you will need for a given temperature.

Planning the type and amount of Synthetic insulation is a little like deciding what fill power Down to use. You might have seen 550. 600, 750, 800+, 900 Down used for different products. The higher the fill power the less Down is necessary for a given temperature. Higher fill power requires less Down so the finished product will be lighter. Each of the different fill power require more or less ounces of Down for a given temperature.

With Synthetic insulation something called "CLO" is used. Different brands and products test out different CLO values. Once you know the CLO value you can determine how much or how many layers of the insulation is necessary for a given temperature. Two layers of an insulation such as Climashield XP should get you down into the 25 to 35 degree temperature range. Climashield XP is also very easy to work with. The amount of Climashield XP you will need will weigh a little over 12 ounces. That weight is just the weight of the insulation. If I was making this quilt the other material I would use would weigh about 5 ounces. That would make the total weight of the quilt 17 or 18 ounces.

What kind of insulation were you planning to use?

beas
12-11-2006, 08:26
Climashield is what I have looked at and it has been recomended here. Also how much loft in inches? I have seen the method of using the yarn to hold the insul. materail in place so how many inches does the gap or need to be?
Man you are full of knowledge and very quick with ansers.
Thanks
BEAS

Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-11-2006, 09:16
I generally use a yard tie every 12 to 14 inches on my synthetic quilts. I find something like a ruler that is a wide as my insulation is thick. I bring one end of the yarn loop up each side of the guide and tie the knot atop the guide. This makes each loop pretty close to exactly the thickness of the insulation.

littlelaurel59
12-11-2006, 10:07
I guess when I was asking for better I was meaning, what are advantages of one over the other.
What level of loft will I need? I found a formula somewhere telling certain layers or thickness will give "x" degree rating. I can't find it now.
BEAS

The formula suggested by Ray Jardine is: 100 - (1.5 x T), where T is the thickness or loft of the insulation.

I made a quilt from one of his kits (Polarguard 3D insulation) and absolutely love it- a featherweight oven (http://www.ray-way.com/quilt/index.shtml). I made the standard quilt. It is good down to 40* as advertised.

Good luck.

littlelaurel59
12-11-2006, 10:11
The formula suggested by Ray Jardine is: 100 - (1.5 x T), where T is the thickness or loft of the insulation.

I made a quilt from one of his kits (Polarguard 3D insulation) and absolutely love it- a featherweight oven (http://www.ray-way.com/quilt/index.shtml). I made the standard quilt. It is good down to 40* as advertised.

Good luck.

OOOPS:eek:

The formula should read 100 - (40 x T). With the standard kit, the thickness is 1.5".

Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-11-2006, 10:46
According to this formula:
100 -(40 * 1.5" loft) = 40 F
100 - (40 * 2" loft) = 20 F
100 - (40 * 2.5" loft) = 0 F
100 - (40 * 3" loft) = -20 F

I think those figures are a bit optimistic - I have a double quilt that is 2" on one side and 2.5" on the other -- it is good alone down to about 30 to 35 F for the hot sleeping male dino and the cold sleeping female dino.

gardenville
12-11-2006, 12:03
According to this formula:
100 -(40 * 1.5" loft) = 40 F
100 - (40 * 2" loft) = 20 F
100 - (40 * 2.5" loft) = 0 F
100 - (40 * 3" loft) = -20 F

I think those figures are a bit optimistic - I have a double quilt that is 2" on one side and 2.5" on the other -- it is good alone down to about 30 to 35 F for the hot sleeping male dino and the cold sleeping female dino.

Do you know what brand the insulation is and which product within that brand it is? Some insulation is so poor that it is little better than sleeping under a Sunday newspaper. Then how are you using the quilt. A quilt will seldom be as warm as a regular sleeping bag. To many ways for cold air to get to you if you are not careful. I use my quilts inside a home made Bivy that helps hold the quilt around me. I used Pertex Quantum for the outer layer and Cuben fiber for the floor part. That Bivy weighs 3 ounces and is the same size as a large size Bivy.

I made a quilt out of one layer of Climashield Combat that I used inside my Bivy on my Georgia Loop hike this past Oct. It keep me warm at 42 degrees which was as cold as it got on that hike. The quilt was small but big enough for me. It weighed about 6.5 ounces.

Synthetic insulation has gotten so good the last few years that the difference is really small and is very close to 800 / 900 Down. It is almost as light and the difference is like getting 20 miles to the gallon or getting 18 miles to the gallon. But you must use the good synthetic insulation like I listed in my first reply.

I am working on what will be one of the last two quilts I will ever use Down for. I am using up the last of my Down. Good synthetic insulation is so easy to work with. Down requires much more work.

Just Jeff
12-11-2006, 12:41
I'd suggest you go to Walmart, get a few yards of $1/yd material, and try to sleep under a 42" wide quilt. Unless you're using it in a hammock, you might find that's way too narrow. And if it's not, at least you've only spent a few bucks to test it.

Johnny Swank
12-11-2006, 13:55
I agree with several points so far.

2' = about 35 degree for a quilt. Ray's an optimist

42" is probably going to be too narrow.

Bivy+quilt = good combination

I haven't played with any of the newer synthetic stuff, but the durablity is always going to be suspect. A 2" synthetic quilt at the beginning of a thru-hike is likely to be a 1" quilt by the end when the temps are dropping again. That said, you can sew up a synthetic quilt faster than a down one, so it might be worth making two and switching them out.

FWIW - I just made a sewn-through down quilt in about 6 hours. It wasn't that big of a deal, and I'm sure it's good to at least 40 degree, and possibly 30 with a bivy.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-11-2006, 14:11
Do you know what brand the insulation is and which product within that brand it is? ....
Synthetic insulation has gotten so good the last few years that the difference is really small and is very close to 800 / 900 Down. It is almost as light and the difference is like getting 20 miles to the gallon or getting 18 miles to the gallon. But you must use the good synthetic insulation like I listed in my first reply.The last quilt was made with Polarguard Delta. The one before that was made with Thinsulate and is useless except for indoor use.

I agree that synthetics are much easier to work with, but I haven't found them to be as good at insulating oz for oz as down. However, I use synthetic insulation because the male dino has a mild allergy to down.

beas
12-11-2006, 18:59
All of this has been great info. I appreciate the feedback and I will getback with ya;ll as soon as I am finihsed.
Beas
Any other info is still welcome,