pocket rocket vs whisperlite [Archive]

troglobil

12-10-2006, 13:07

I have the whisperlight. weight with the 11oz fuel botttle is not to bad. It is a little bulkier than pocket rocket. It gives you all the enjoyment of the preburn warming of the stove. You don't have to guess how much fuel you have left, and can usually buy it by the ounce at resupplies. The 1 hour burn time seems kinda low? But then again, I know nothing about the pocket rocket. Both will boil water quickly. Simmering with whisperlight can be a little tricky, it tends to go out at low idle.

rafe

12-10-2006, 13:47

My Whisperlite is 18 years old and has been with me for 3/4 of the AT and dozens of hikes besides. It's never let me down.

That said, I'm aware that it's much heavier than necessary for thru-hiker's needs, let alone for a section-hiker's needs. You're looking at 11 oz for the burner and pump, another 2.8 to 4 oz for the fuel bottle. After that, the weight of the fuel itself is almost insignificant, because no stove is more efficient (and gas is far more efficient than alcohol, in terms of energy content.) [FWIW, the Simmerlite will shave 3 oz off the weight of the Whisperlite.]

A pocket rocket plus an empty "100 gram" canister weighs 6.5 oz. The fuel in that canister, under ideal conditions, will boil about 15 pints of water.

An alcohol stove can weigh well under one ounce, but you need to budget about .75 oz of fuel weight for each pint of water boiled, and maybe another .75 oz for the fuel bottle.

The "right" stove depends on your cooking habits on the trail and the frequency of fuel re-supply. It also depends on the season -- white gas stoves are well-suited for winter hiking, while canisters stoves are less so.

The Whisperlite gives the most "freedom" for cooking, but at a cost in weight carried. With alcohol stoves, you need to seriously budget fuel consumption and minutes of flame. You can't regulate the height of the flame, nor can you turn the stove "off." It's a whole different approach to the camp cooking.

swantekkie

12-10-2006, 14:06

rafe

12-10-2006, 14:36

ya im looking more for amount of burn time, plus weight, and seeing as i wont be doing too much extreme cold camping the wisperlite seems like it should do the trick. How much burn time on average do u get from the 11oz canister?

MSR claims 15 quarts with 11 oz of fuel. When mine was new, I got 3.5 hours of burn time, at a "normal" setting, with 16 oz of fuel, in a "controlled" test at home. In fact, there was still some fuel left at the end of that test. (I cut the test short so I could turn off the stove and go to bed.)

If I were looking to buy a white gas stove for the AT, I'd get the Simmerlite and the 11 oz bottle. Whisperlites were the stove of choice for many years on the trail, but folks nowadays are a lot more weight-conscious.

swantekkie

12-10-2006, 14:52

Is the simmerlite alot lighter than the whisperlite?

troglobil

12-10-2006, 15:00

no. According to MSR website.
whisper light min weight ....11 oz
simmer light min weight ....8.5 oz
simmerlite simmers better

Peaks

12-10-2006, 17:47

Getting back to the original question, each stove has it's place.

Whisperlite, or simmerlite are gas stove. Coleman fuel, or unleaded gas is readily available. However, they can flare up, especially when lighting. So, keep them away from anything flamible, like tents.

Canister stoves may not work when it's below freezing. Canisters usually available only from outfitters. And then there is the problem of knowing how much fuel is left in a canister, so bring along a spare. But, other than that, they are pretty fool proof.

To each their own.

TJ aka Teej

12-10-2006, 19:51

...other than that, they are pretty fool proof.

So that's why I use a Pocket Pocket! :D And although I try to keep track of boils with sharpie tic marks on the can, I still always carry a spare.

rafe

12-10-2006, 20:00

So that's why I use a Pocket Pocket! :D And although I try to keep track of boils with sharpie tic marks on the can, I still always carry a spare.

There's a market for a 1 oz portable electronic scale, doncha think? Does anyone know where to get those stick-on thingies that change color and show the fuel level?

I'm thinking.. one could take along a soda can stove and a few oz. of alcohol as a backup.

Roland

12-10-2006, 20:07

~~~
Canister stoves may not work when it's below freezing. ~~~

I used to think so too, although I've never used one. Then someone posted this link (http://www.chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presicookingguide.htm) on VFTT.

ARambler

12-10-2006, 20:25

I now use the Simmerlite. I don't know why MSR still makes the Whisperlite. I guess MSR just wants a slightly cheaper stove. Ditto on the smallest fuel bottle. When I needed a lot of fuel in AK, I also carried a 24 oz Pepsi bottle with extra fuel, then transfered it to my Ti bottle. The Simmerlite is very good at boiling water in harsh conditions. I'm sure my fellow dinosaurs died out because of an interruption in their Mountain House supply... it couldn't have been our white gas stoves.:rolleyes:

Although the Simmerlite simmers pretty well, the butane stoves are probably better if you simmer a lot. If you want to fire it up several times a day for that second cup of coffee, the butane is also better. If you just want to bring 2 cups of water to a boil in the summer, you might want to go to the dark side, CH3CH2OH.
Rambler

rafe

12-10-2006, 20:49

Although the Simmerlite simmers pretty well, the butane stoves are probably better if you simmer a lot. If you want to fire it up several times a day for that second cup of coffee, the butane is also better. If you just want to bring 2 cups of water to a boil in the summer, you might want to go to the dark side, CH3CH2OH.
Rambler

I remember hearing, 2nd or 3rd-hand, very long ago, a statement attributed to Warren Doyle. Something to the effect of, "if you need to light your stove more than once each day, you won't make it to Katahdin."

Consciously or subconsciously, I got to where I use my stove exactly once each day, for dinner. But I'm wondering also if that was because of the stoves I used -- white gas and later, a Zip stove. And now that I'm considering switching to canister (or CH3CH2OH) I wonder if that may change again. Especially with the canister, given how easy they are to start up and shut down.

Toolshed

12-10-2006, 20:50

Swantekkie -
My first stove was a Phoenix Backpacker (white gas stove in a square metal box) . After that I upgraded to a Whisperlite which was the backpacking standard (well OK, Svea123 was as well) and then in 1992 I got a Whisperlite International.

The Whisperlite has been my standard all season stove up until 2001 when I started playing with Alcohol and made Pepsi can stoves - I used to do a lot of winter camping and a white gas stove is required in bitter subzero cold cold. I finally broke down and got a PR 2 years ago as I was a little tired of alcohol stoves and I was starting to take my little one out with me and wanted a lighter stove that still boiled 4 quarts quickly.

I still use my Whisperlite for winter camping and anytime that I am cooking for more than 2. I have the luxury of having the pocket rocket for warm weather use, but if I could only have one stove, it would be the Whisperlite.
BTW, you can simmer with it but it is a clunky process, Clamp down on the stove leg with your pot gripper (if the stove is hot) then you need only flip the fuel bottle over (using the gas line as a pivot ) for about 15 seconds, so the gas intake line (inside the bottle) draws air from the top of the bottle and bleeds it out, then pivot the bottle back over and relight the stove, which should not need priming since it will still be very hot.

BTW, It seems there are 2 kinds of people in the - Those that have problems with Whisperlites and those that don't. Other than the old style fuel pump cracking in subzero weather in the ADKs, I have never had a problem.

Finally, since I can boil a huge pot of water within about 4 minutes (after priming) I have had a few backpackers in the past ask me if I could spare some hot water for them for soup/coffee/tea, while they were waiting for their Alcohol stoves to heat 2 cups or their dinner.
The Whisperlite does have its place.....

magic_game03

12-11-2006, 04:48

tip 1: save your money and buy a jetboil
tip 2: fuel time=amateur time. a 4oz canister should last about a week, 8oz about 20 days, 16oz canister lasted me 700 miles back in '04. (you can doubt it but I have a trail journal to back it up; rockfish gap,va - kent,ct)
tip 3: buy 4 season fuel, it burns hotter and therefore you get fuel efficiency over weight of fuel.

swantekkie

12-12-2006, 14:41

toolshed, you sound like u have done alot of research, i trust ur judgment. I'll probly go with the whisperlite

fiddlehead

12-12-2006, 18:36

One important thing you should know about the whisperlite: it is anything but quiet. and lite. It is one of the loudest and heaviest stoves out there. I don't know why they call it what they do.

swantekkie

12-12-2006, 19:25

does anyone recommend the jet boil group cooking system, its looks pretty efficiant

Peaks

12-12-2006, 19:47

One important thing you should know about the whisperlite: it is anything but quiet. and lite. It is one of the loudest and heaviest stoves out there. I don't know why they call it what they do.

Compared with other stoves on the market when Whisperlite first came out, it was certainly lighter and quieter than stoves like the Svea.

Jack Tarlin

12-12-2006, 20:56

Swantekkie:

The JB system is about the most efficient water-boiling unit I've ever seen.

If you're planning to rely extensively on prepared dinners (like Mountain House), the Jet Boil is perfect. If you're planning to actually COOK meals, tho, I would NOT go with the original Jet Boil pot, but instead, get the larger, shorter one which they recently started marketing.....it's much easier to cook and clean, and also can prepare over-size meals which the regular pot will not do.

I think a great deal of the Jet Boil system, but you have to pay attention to it when you're actually cooking a meal in it. It burns SO well, and SO efficiently that it's easy to burn your meal if you turn your back for very long, as the stove burns so hot it's easy for the "liquid" part of your dinner to dry up. Meaning with other stoves, you can turn your back for awhile, put your tent up, go get water, etc. I wouldn't do this while cooking with a JB, at least not for very long.

To get back to your original question, I think the Whisperlite is a great stove, I used one for years, but in recent years, I switched over to cannister stoves, either the Snowpeak Giga, the MSR Pocket Rocket, or the Jet Boil.
They are much lighter, more efficient, burn hotter and quicker, and have lots fewer parts to break, get clogged, lost, etc. Also, you can get more meals out of a cannister stove than you might think, especially if you've got a good pot lid or simply SHUT YOUR STOVE OFF a few minutes before your dinner is done....with a lid on securely, the pot will stay hot enough and will continue to cook your food, while saving several minutes of fuel at each use.

swantekkie

12-12-2006, 22:08

thanx jack ur imput is greatly appreciated, i didnt relize this post was up and started a new thread, please ignore,ty

Panzer1

12-13-2006, 00:02

When estimating the number of days a canister stove will last on the trail, consider that on some days you will eat at restaurants and not have to use your canister. Also consider that on some days in the summer you may not use the stove for breakfast or lunch.

Panzer

Bootstrap

10-22-2007, 14:01

I've avoided canisters largely because I don't like to worry about where to get the next canister from, I don't like the environmental impact of the canisters, and I don't like to be beholden to any one manufacturer for supplies.

Am I deluding myself?

Jonathan

(Who is now starting to play with a Supercat in addition to his tried and true Whisperlite.)

Lone Wolf

10-22-2007, 14:03

cannisters are easy to get along the trail plus you can ship them to yourself in the mail

SGT Rock

10-22-2007, 14:07

Look at the coleman F1 ultralight instead of the pocket rocket

rafe

10-22-2007, 14:38

I've avoided canisters largely because I don't like to worry about where to get the next canister from, I don't like the environmental impact of the canisters, and I don't like to be beholden to any one manufacturer for supplies.

The canisters are mostly interchangeable these days. Eg., the Pocket Rocket, Peak 1, etc. can all use the same threaded canisters. Just don't get locked into any of the proprietary burner designs (eg. Gaz???)

Canister resupply is a minor issue in some locations. OTOH, if you're frugal, you can get 10-15 days usage out of a single 8-oz canister. There are ways of "emptying" them so that the environmental impact is no worse than any other "tin can."

Bootstrap

10-22-2007, 14:59

Look at the coleman F1 ultralight instead of the pocket rocket

Why do you prefer the F1 to the Pocket ROcket?

Jonathan

SGT Rock

10-22-2007, 15:05

Just because of the efficiency. That said, I didn't test those numbers myself - I take BackpackingLight's numbers. I've have a lot of respect for their test proceedures and results. The guy that did those stove comparisons of canister stoves spent a lot of time doing that that test series and checking them on as close to true conditions as possible and making sure all the stoves were compared using the same conditions. It is the best possible way to take suggestive opinion out of the evaluation. I'm always seceptical of glowing reviews by users that spent money on a product - I've noticed a vested interested in proving they were right in their gear choices. Even if they are simply trying to prove it to themselves.

Mags

10-22-2007, 15:06

If I may put in a plug for something I helped to write:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20055&highlight=stove+comparison

Bootstrap

10-22-2007, 15:24

If I may put in a plug for something I helped to write:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20055&highlight=stove+comparison

Very helpful summary - thanks!

Is there any good way to know accurately how much fuel you have left in a canister?

Jonathan

NICKTHEGREEK

10-22-2007, 15:40

no. According to MSR website.
whisper light min weight ....11 oz
simmer light min weight ....8.5 oz
simmerlite simmers better

The whisper is loud
the simmer doesn't
both are heavy

Mags

10-22-2007, 15:54

Very helpful summary - thanks!

Is there any good way to know accurately how much fuel you have left in a canister?

Jonathan

I do not know how accurate it is, but I did find this link:
http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=274

Not sure if it works for other canister types/brands.

The link came from this excellent canister article:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=97824&postcount=1

rafe

10-22-2007, 16:25

The whisper is loud
the simmer doesn't
both are heavy

They're great stoves. They've been "devalued" mostly because of the trend toward UL gear. They're only marginally heavier than a canister stove if you're carrying a "large" (8 oz net.) canister.

Consider: 3 oz. for burner unit + 5 oz. for empty canister = 8 oz.

MSR Simmerlight = 8.5 oz for burner + pump; 2.5 oz for an empty (11 oz volume) fuel canister = 11 oz. total.

Net difference: 3 oz.

AT-HITMAN2005

10-22-2007, 16:47

i used a simmer lite and 22 oz bottle. realized later on i didn't need such a big bottle but it was my first time hiking so didn't know any better. going to use them both again next year though, because the weight wasn't that big a deal, and i'll be sharing it.

never any problems with my stove. although my bottle opened up one afternoon and leaked whitegas all over everything.:eek:

nitewalker

10-22-2007, 17:08

If I may put in a plug for something I helped to write:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20055&highlight=stove+comparison

:sun nice job and very helpful. i love my pocket rocket. i never leave home without it..................:banana

Speer Carrier

10-22-2007, 18:35

If you want something real light, and you are just planning on boiling water and dumping it into a bag or bowl, why not consider the Espit.

NICKTHEGREEK

10-23-2007, 06:22

They're great stoves. They've been "devalued" mostly because of the trend toward UL gear. They're only marginally heavier than a canister stove if you're carrying a "large" (8 oz net.) canister.

Consider: 3 oz. for burner unit + 5 oz. for empty canister = 8 oz.

MSR Simmerlight = 8.5 oz for burner + pump; 2.5 oz for an empty (11 oz volume) fuel canister = 11 oz. total.

Net difference: 3 oz.

Never said they aren't great, they obviously were named by a real marketeer.

That's a new "spin" on weight. Why don't you add the weight of a maintenance kit or at least a wrench to the WG stoves? That's reaching way too far to try and claim they weigh about the same

HIKER7s

10-23-2007, 06:28

I had the pocket rocket for like 5 years and it served me well and is serving my son well on his hikes. I do nothing extravagant on it therefore I am satisfied with the boil time and amount per fuel cannister I get. It is, as well as most gas stoves not to efficient at freezing temps and those trip I go back to the white gas stove.

But I have a jetboil-great, so glad I got it.

nitewalker

10-23-2007, 07:16

if i use my pocket rocket just for a dinner and morning coffe each day i belive the fuel canister will last me well over a week. i have been using the same canister of fuel for at least my last 3 hikes. mostly two and three day hikes. i will use it once again although it is almost empty at this point..i have used all 3 of my stoves while ice fishing in 15* weather and all proved to work just fine[whisper lt from 85,jet boil,pocket rocket]. i found if you can keep the fuel canister somewhat warm[inside jacket] it will perform somewhat better..

nitewalker

10-23-2007, 07:18

inside of the jacket previous to lighting the thing.....didnt want no1 to bash me about the inside the jacket idea.... not lit......lol

Jim Adams

10-23-2007, 07:19

there is no comparison...the pocket rocket is lighter, cheaper, more dependable and more efficient. cannisters are everywhere and will last 14+ days with 1 boil per day.

geek

HIKER7s

10-23-2007, 07:22

i found if you can keep the fuel canister somewhat warm[inside jacket] it will perform somewhat better..

I find this is very true, i dont do it anymore but I used to have an empty fanny pack that on the last rest stop before making it to the days destination (on a cold day) I would put the fuel can in this and contain it in my jacket so by the time I began to use it, it was ready.

HIKER7s

10-23-2007, 07:23

there is no comparison...the pocket rocket is lighter, cheaper, more dependable and more efficient. cannisters are everywhere and will last 14+ days with 1 boil per day.

geek

..agree...as long as you dont get crazy with that 1 boil per day.

earlyriser26

10-23-2007, 07:29

I've been hiking on the A.T. since 1969. I started with my favorite stove of all time (Optimus 8R). Now we have evolved to where the choices are great and the differences minimal. I now use the MSR Pocket Rocket. Very small, easy to use, and bullet proof. I've used it when the fuel sat out all night at 20 degrees and it worked fine. 20 below would be another story, but how many people need that capability? You won't go wrong with stove, but the other one is very too.
:sun

HIKER7s

10-23-2007, 07:33

I've used it when the fuel sat out all night at 20 degrees and it worked fine. :sun

I agree its a great little stove, but I have to say although you can get it working in those temps the efficiency rating drops alot which will jack up your avg boil time.

rafe

10-23-2007, 08:04

That's a new "spin" on weight. Why don't you add the weight of a maintenance kit or at least a wrench to the WG stoves?

Fair enough, but then add the weight of a windscreen to both, and for that matter, the rest of the "kitchen" and maybe a spare canister....

FWIW, I used a Pocket Rocket + large canister(s) on this year's long section. Resupply wasn't possible in PA, but the canisters lasted longer than I'd expected.

I think WG stoves still make good sense for couples and groups. Less so for solo hikers.

HIKER7s

10-23-2007, 08:07

Still, now that I've had it, IMHO, jet boil is the deal for me.

DavidNH

10-23-2007, 08:20

I have an MSR whisperlite now several years old. I love it. It's a work horse.
If I ever had to replace it though I might go with the simmerlite.. newer sleeker a tad lighter and supposedly simmers better (though apparently there is some disagreement on this). I have tried alcohol stoves.. I personallly prefer using the whisperlite. Dinner is ready in way less time!!

Oh and by the way.. You absolutely CAN use your stove twice a day and still make it to Katahdin!!!!!

As some older gentlemen told me on the southern portions of the AT.. "it is not a race!!!!"

David

nitewalker

10-23-2007, 08:24

has anyone used the primus eta stove. i have seen it in backpacker and it is supposedly a very efficent stove down to -15* or so????

P.S. this may sound dumb but where do i find the "start new thread" link??? ugggh i hated asking this but i have been dumbfounded.......

peace out, nitewalker

rafe

10-23-2007, 08:33

P.S. this may sound dumb but where do i find the "start new thread" link??? ugggh i hated asking this but i have been dumbfounded.......

Click the "Forums" at the top of the page. Navigate to the forum you want. Then click on the "New Thread" button at the bottom of that page.

NICKTHEGREEK

10-23-2007, 09:01

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 09:10

Fair enough, but then add the weight of a windscreen to both, and for that matter, the rest of the "kitchen" and maybe a spare canister....

FWIW, I used a Pocket Rocket + large canister(s) on this year's long section. Resupply wasn't possible in PA, but the canisters lasted longer than I'd expected.

I think WG stoves still make good sense for couples and groups. Less so for solo hikers.
What I have found when camping as a couple or a family is it actually makse sense to have multiple pots and stoves because it can change how and what you cook. I use alcohol, so I'll leave that out and use canister stove in it's place...

But if you compare a canister stove and burner weight x 2 to a gas stove the weight and cost are about the same as one gas stove. Then each individual carries their own pot - if you go light on this it is about the same as one large pot.

When we family camp we can have 2, 3, or even 4 burners going with different parts of our meal. Some meals can be simple boil and eat stuff - but others are more than that. And even the boil and eat meals can include hot drinks that are cooked at the same time the meal is. OR, when no one wants the same dish, you can all cook whatever you want at the same time without waiting for one person to get done before you start cooking.

So in the end, if you are group camping a set of canisters for each individual may make more sense than one gas stove.

rafe

10-23-2007, 09:27

So in the end, if you are group camping a set of canisters for each individual may make more sense than one gas stove.

That's true if you want your meals prepared as quickly as possible. My argument was based primarily on weight, and in particular, "dead weight" -- ie., the weight of the stove and the (empty) fuel container.

On a pure weight basis, you can't beat alcohol stoves, but the problem there is that the fuel itself is so inefficient. (And of course, there's no "simmer" setting or flame level control.)

I do know that 15, 20 years ago, canister stoves were not an option for thru-hiking. Back then, 90+ percent of thru-hikers carried WG stoves.

I know this also: for many years on my section hikes, I used either a Whisperlite or a Zip stove, and never gave a moment's thought to fuel resupply. :D

whitefoot_hp

10-23-2007, 09:30

if you get the pocket rocket, be careful when you offer a member of the opposite sex a chance to use it. you may send the wrong message. (from experience here)

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 10:09

On a pure weight basis, you can't beat alcohol stoves, but the problem there is that the fuel itself is so inefficient. (And of course, there's no "simmer" setting or flame level control.)
:D
It depends on how you decide to quantify efficient. I think it is very very efficient. There are also alchohol stoves that simmer, some of them do that very well. But I find simmering over-rated. A pot cozy is a better solution.

Mags

10-23-2007, 10:14

I think WG stoves still make good sense for couples and groups. Less so for solo hikers.

..and for true winter camping when you have to melt LOTS of snow.

Differents tools for different jobs. :)

One thing I've be wondering about is how "green" are the canisters? Can you recycle the canisters?

It is something I've been wondering. I seem to recall that the Coleman Exponent system does have recycleable canisters. What about the other types?

Not trolling..just curious.

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 10:20

Mags

10-23-2007, 10:21

When we family camp we can have 2, 3, or even 4 burners going with different parts of our meal.

http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=36&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=16031

Addmittedly not for backpacking. :D

Mags

10-23-2007, 10:25

The exponent stove canisters are made so you can puncture them and recycle them as aluminum.

The other canisters warn not to re-fill them. Not the greenest of solutions. Maybe someday someone will come up with a good idea for that.

I am not an extrme "tree hugger" type by any means...but it does bother me a little bit if I start using canisters excessively. I love my mini-propane stove for trailhead heating of water before a hike if I camped out the night before. Quick, simple, cheap.

Yet..well, remember the saying "All politics are local" ?

Everything is local. Every little bit helps.

(Mind you, I am saying this as I look over at my Lexan coffee mug made with petroluem distillates. :) )

HIKER7s

10-23-2007, 11:06

When we family camp I use the propane single burner jobs. Its effective and gets the coffee done and whatever I need quick without going to the grill (to go). Like alot of us, thats one gear (where we also silently cringe at all this stuff it takes to get someone to even venture outdoors, but that is another thread) .

The second gear I have to go through is the scout troop, we take so much stuff, you know. Stoves, large burners for water, 10 gallon water containers, larger stoves, large tents, flys,etc) by the way I have finally convinced the committee to let me have a "venture" group. They are presently learning how to get out there with what is on their back and loving it.

The third gear and my most comfortable is just that, the backpacking gear. Like I said, I use the jet boil now and love it. I had been using the pocket rocket which my son is now using, 6 years on that. Still works like a champ.

I too however would like to know if that primus eta is good when in sub-freezing temps.

earlyriser26

10-23-2007, 13:36

Appalachian Tater

10-23-2007, 13:39

I'm always amazed that hikers can talk for days about saving an ounce on this stove or that stove when they should just use the one they like best. Often the trade is a little utility for a little weight. I carry a full size 2 person tent that is about 5 LBs. I would never trade the utility I get out of that tent on a rainy night for some 2 or 3 pound body condom. Why should you switch stoves for an ounce or two? Because if you save 2 ounces on eight items, you've saved a pound.

Lone Wolf

10-23-2007, 13:40

Because if you save 2 ounces on eight items, you've saved a pound.

bfd....... :rolleyes:

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 13:43

I'm always amazed that hikers can talk for days about saving an ounce on this stove or that stove when they should just use the one they like best. Often the trade is a little utility for a little weight. I carry a full size 2 person tent that is about 5 LBs. I would never trade the utility I get out of that tent on a rainy night for some 2 or 3 pound body condom. Why should you switch stoves for an ounce or two?
Because you want to.

Some of us see a 5 lb 2 person tent as a waste of effort when you can get even more space out of a 10 ounce tarp. See - it isn't about how you see it, it is about how the person switches the gear sees it.

Mags

10-23-2007, 13:50

bfd....... :rolleyes:

That's a half-days food.

I'd rather carry more food and less gear. Then again, I tend to like food and hate carrying gear. I'm also a wimp. :D

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 13:53

That's a half-days food.

I'd rather carry more food and less gear. Then again, I tend to like food and hate carrying gear. I'm also a wimp. :D
I agree - I like 2.1 - 2.5 pounds of food a day more than I like a 5 pound tent.

rafe

10-23-2007, 14:03

Pack weight matters. At age 37 I hiked the 650 southermost miles of the AT in 60 days... averaging 11 miles/day, with a 40 lb. pack (about 26 lbs. base weight.) I weighed 160 lbs, and was in excellent physical shape on arrival at Springer.

This year, at age 54, I hiked 587 miles in 39 days, averaging 15 miles/day, with a 26-28 lb. pack (16-18 lbs base weight.) I started this year's hike weighing 175 lbs., with moderate training (mostly bike rides, 50 miles/week or so.)

I attribute the difference primarily to pack weight and also to more frequent resupply (ie., lighter food load.)

earlyriser26

10-23-2007, 15:30

I agree - I like 2.1 - 2.5 pounds of food a day more than I like a 5 pound tent.
No matter how cold and wet the day is I'm going to be warm and dry. A tarp? Ha! We all have our own personal preferences. I have a light weight pack, stove, sleeping bag, food, clothing, etc. but there are certain things I won't give up. I'm hiking in GA this weekend and my pack will weigh about 30 LBs with water and my 5lb tent. I went out last year with guy that had a 50lb pack (included a fishing pole, swim suit, kyte, etc.) by the way it was winter. I thought it was a little strange. I see someone with a 20lb pack and I think the same thing..... To each his own.

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 15:34

kohburn

10-23-2007, 15:34

I got my jetboil for a number of reasons including its speed of boiling water, but also because it came with a pan support so that it can easily support a pan for more involved cooking. (you can also buy a non-stick pan with the heatsink on bottom to make it more efficient but i have yet to try it)

I've given up on white fuel/dual fuel stoves that I struggled with for years. the jetboil serves me very well.

earlyriser26

10-23-2007, 15:45

I don't know - my experience is most tents are a heck of a lot of skeeter net and extra walls. I'm not sure that having a bathtub floor and lots of skeeter net are any improvement over a good tarp in the snow. I've been using floorless "tents" without walls for years in the Army. In all seasons. Even in Germany. So yes. Even in those conditions I like a tarp. The only thing that changes for me is the desire for a fire - in that weather I want one more than in other weather.
I used a tarp once and got wet and was eaten alive. I'm glad it works for you and you can save weight. I would do it too, but have had no sucess. I love nature, except at night. I've found a tarp only works when you don't even need a tarp, in which case you can save 10 oz by not bringing the tarp. Hikers have strong opinions and none are less strongly held than on their personal equipment choices.

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 15:51

I used a tarp once and got wet and was eaten alive. I'm glad it works for you and you can save weight. I would do it too, but have had no sucess. I love nature, except at night. I've found a tarp only works when you don't even need a tarp, in which case you can save 10 oz by not bringing the tarp. Hikers have strong opinions and none are less strongly held than on their personal equipment choices.
Your are right on that. Try convincing someone with a filter how really useless it is.

kohburn

10-23-2007, 15:56

Your are right on that. Try convincing someone with a filter how really useless it is.

atleast without scientific proof :p

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 15:58

Even with it.

LIhikers

10-23-2007, 16:14

Your are right on that. Try convincing someone with a filter how really useless it is.

I've got a reason to carry that one pound filter. My wife's convinced that she needs it to enjoy backpacking. She won't add any chemicals to our water due to a minor medical condition. If carrying a one pound filter gets my wife out backpacking with me then I'm gonna carry the pound since it makes my trip more enjoyable being able to share it with someone I love. She did conceed the freestanding, 3 person, tent and we saved a few pounds by using a Tarptent instead.

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 16:15

Yep. It is about faith and what people are willing to accept.

Jim Adams

10-23-2007, 16:17

Your are right on that. Try convincing someone with a filter how really useless it is.

almost as useless as a tent if you have a tarp!!!:D

geek

kohburn

10-23-2007, 16:21

Yep. It is about faith and what people are willing to accept.

or just listen ot the CDC

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends
1) mechanically filtering the water
2) treating it with a halogen (chlorine or an iodine solution)
3) letting it sit 15 to 60 minutes
4) then drinking.

of course a filter with an activated carbon filter can also remove chlorine.

haven't found much about those steri-pens effectiveness.

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 16:22

See, I already started them up. I wonder how many others will try to convince me they are right even though I don't care.

Lone Wolf

10-23-2007, 16:23

See, I already started them up. I wonder how many others will try to convince me they are right even though I don't care.

i'm the ONLY on that is right. no filters or treating needed

Bootstrap

10-23-2007, 16:29

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 16:32

The marketing claims on this website are interesting, never seen this stove, looks nice in pictures. They claim boiling speeds similar to white gas stoves, they claim to be able to simmer well, and the stove is very lightweight:

http://www.thermojetstove.com/

Does anyone have experience with this? With a few recommendations, this could easily become my top contender.

Jonathan
Not exactly that design - basically it is a pepsi can stove with a fancy windscreen/potstand that has a choke on it. There are lighter ways to do the same thing and you can make them for free.

Bootstrap

10-23-2007, 17:00

Not exactly that design - basically it is a pepsi can stove with a fancy windscreen/potstand that has a choke on it. There are lighter ways to do the same thing and you can make them for free.

They claim that getting true combustion is something that's hard enough that the homemade stoves and normal alcohol stoves don't quite get it:

http://www.thermojetstove.com/combustion.htm

Lots of words about the Stochiometric ration and diffusion flames and such. Their materials call most alcohol stoves "alcohol burners", claiming that they just aren't stoves:

http://www.thermojetstove.com/stove_comparison.htm#Alcohol%20Burners

As far as weight goes, they claim 2 1/2 ounces.

Backpacking Light really likes this stove, saying its well ahead of other alcohol stoves:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/thermojet_microlite_alcohol_stove_review.html
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/alcohol_stoves_review_summary.html

User reviews are decidedly mixed, pointing to lots of problems with customer service:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=962&skip_to_post=63629&id=24j2GqDi:71.111.216.65#63629

Someone has managed to make a stove like this at home:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/1809/index.html?mv_session_id=3s9bHnHP%3A68%2E227%2E196 %2E106&skip_to_post=12927#12927

Not enough data to tell if they got the same performance that Thermojet claims.

So on balance, I'm still intrigued, but cautious. And curious about making my own ...

Jonathan

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 17:05

I'm looking at it and that is the same stove people have made for years in their house - they didn't come up with anything new there.

The windscreen and stand idea is something that has also been around for a while as well.

The main thing that they have done is make a choke system on the windscreen. Others have done this as well.

You can make your own.

Bootstrap

10-23-2007, 18:25

You can make your own.

OK, I believe you now ;->

I'm going to have to learn to get handier with tools. I'm starting with a Supercat before I try more advanced projects.

Jonathan

SGT Rock

10-23-2007, 18:29

Good idea. I think once you play with building stoves you will figure out really fast that there are just a few variables you have to play with.

Make a burner. Most any burner will do - it can be as simple as a tea light with some fiberglass in the bottom.

Next - figure out how high up from the burner you need to put the pot - the sweet spot is where the flames are just changing from blue to yellow. Make a stand that keeps the pot there and is stable enough for you. I like tripod designs the best ;)

Finally - make a windscreen that protects the flame from wind and keeps the flames close to the pot without choking the flame down too much. If you smell alcohol you are probably choking it too much.

Get a pot that works for you. I reccomend aluminum 1qt or about that size. I personally use a 0.9L Ti though.

troglobil

10-23-2007, 19:20

REI is know recycling Jetboil cannisters

Tinker

10-24-2007, 00:39

If you hike solo, stove weight means a lot more than if you're with someone else or a group.

The Whisperlite works better in extreme cold but is heavy, and you'r right - the Pocket Rocket is a little unstable with a larger pot on top.

For all season hiking with a partner, I'd go with the Whisperlite.
For solo hiking in warmer months, I'd go with the Pocket Rocket.
For the lightest possible option in warm weather, don't be afraid to try Esbit fuel tabs (though they DO stink), and a home made beer can "stove" - actually the "pot".

Panzer1

10-24-2007, 00:46

The Whisperlite works better in extreme cold but is heavy, and you'r right - the Pocket Rocket is a little unstable with a larger pot on top.

One thing you can do to make it a little more stable is to use the 4 ounce fuel bottle instead of the 8 ounce. Since the stove will be lower to the ground it will be somewhat more stable.

Panzer

SGT Rock

10-24-2007, 08:36

REI is know recycling Jetboil cannisters
Seems if they recycle those they should recycle any others. But...

For a thru-hiker it isn't easy for them to pop on down to the local REI as they head up the trail. I suspect most canisters still end up in the trash.

kohburn

10-24-2007, 08:44

incase anybody is interested int he weight breakdown of the jetboil i did a little weighing last night of the PCS.
fuel canister 5.5oz
main stove component 5.5oz
pcs mug with lid, bottom cover, covy sleeve removed 5oz
lid 1oz
stability stand 1oz
pot stabilizer ring 1oz
cozy sleeve 1oz

so if you wanted to save a little weight you could skip the extras and just use the stove burner and stripped down boiler cup at 10.5oz and the fuel which for me has gotten close to 22 cups per 5.5oz canister.

another option that would be interesting to try for improving the efficiency of the alchohal stove would be to use a jetboil cup/pan/pot or simply to attach a small heatsink onto the bottom of one of the soda can boilers.

Bootstrap

10-24-2007, 22:36

Make a burner. Most any burner will do - it can be as simple as a tea light with some fiberglass in the bottom.

Got that far. The Supercat I made yesterday worked very well today. I used more appropriate fuel today.

Next - figure out how high up from the burner you need to put the pot - the sweet spot is where the flames are just changing from blue to yellow. Make a stand that keeps the pot there and is stable enough for you.

Is that part relevant to a supercat? I think placing the stove on the top of the can is what make the air pressures come out right, no?

Finally - make a windscreen that protects the flame frolm wind and keeps the flames close to the pot without choking the flame down too much.

Yeah, I can see that's necessary, even in very moderate winds.

Get a pot that works for you. I reccomend aluminum 1qt or about that size. I personally use a 0.9L Ti though.

OK, I'm playing with my assortment of camping pots.

Thanks!

Jonathan

SGT Rock

10-25-2007, 00:43

Got that far. The Supercat I made yesterday worked very well today. I used more appropriate fuel today.

Is that part relevant to a supercat? I think placing the stove on the top of the can is what make the air pressures come out right, no?

It is appropriate with any stove. Your supercat may have the stove in the right spot or it may not. That is really the problem with any "one size fits all" stove is often it needs a little tweaking. Personally I do not like the supercat style stoves because there is often a cold spot in the center of the pot where you should be getting the center point of heat distribution, but others love them. I like the point of origin of the heat to start at the center of the pot and involve as much of the bottom as possible - those stoves push the flame out the sides and only use the edge of the bottom and sides. I also have found that if the flame is blue it is not as efficient at heating the pot as one that is yellow (there is a site I could try and find to point you to about flames but it is long and boring) but too much yellow is letting the stove get too hot. The trick is to play with burner to pot height so that the flame is just starting to turn yellow as it contacts the pot - that is the sweet spot.

But, if you are happy with it - that is good, thats really all that matters.

Yeah, I can see that's necessary, even in very moderate winds.

That and you want to scavange the BTUs. There is a finite amount of BTUs in the fuel you burn. Every bit of heat you feel outside of the windscreen, every bit you feel going up the sides of the pot and out, and ever bit you lose out the top of your pot are wasted BTUs of fuel. Folks will tell you alcohol is less efficient - well it really has less BTUs per pound. Efficiency is in how you evaluate the term, and since you can run an alcohol stove on lower heat with no moving pressurized parts - you can do things like windscreens and such that are impossible to do with canisters and gas stoves. A one ounce burner and windscreen can more efficiently use those BTUs that alcohol does provide than a canister or gas stove can if you tweak it right.

OK, I'm playing with my assortment of camping pots.

Thanks!

Jonathan
Have fun with it. You are going to get hooked.

SGT Rock

10-25-2007, 00:45

Ohh, and I'll probably get stovies come on here and start debating me on side burner vs top burner, slow vs fast burns, and all other minutia. It is the price you pay for making stoves - you become a stove head. You will be one soon too. But it isn't bad at all, it is fun.

HIKER7s

10-25-2007, 06:20

REI is know recycling Jetboil cannisters

Hmmm, did this just start? What you do, take them in and get them turned around or just re-cycle there and B?UY a new cannister?

Jaybird

10-25-2007, 06:43

I have recently been looking at backpacking stoves and was wondering about the pros and cons of the MSR pocket roocket vs the whisperlite. ETC..................

It's LIGHTER!
NUFF SAID:D

troglobil

10-25-2007, 12:36

Hmmm, did this just start? What you do, take them in and get them turned around or just re-cycle there and B?UY a new cannister?
Just give them your old one when you buy a new one.

zelph

10-28-2007, 14:33

I also have found that if the flame is blue it is not as efficient at heating the pot as one that is yellow (there is a site I could try and find to point you to about flames but it is long and boring) but too much yellow is letting the stove get too hot. The trick is to play with burner to pot height so that the flame is just starting to turn yellow as it contacts the pot - that is the sweet spot.

I think that site would be very interesting and not boring at all. I would appreciate it if you could provide us with that info.
Thank You in advance.

Zelph

pitdog

10-28-2007, 14:50

I have seen both in use and the whisperlite blows away the pocket rocket.Although, the pocket rocket is great for lightness and warmer weather it can not be taken apart and fixed in the field,and dont spill anything on it.

Jack Tarlin

10-28-2007, 16:18

hopefulhiker

10-28-2007, 16:19

I agree with Jack about the Pocket Rocket.. but you have to pack those cannisters out...

pitdog

10-28-2007, 16:51

Yes,if I were out moving quick and light I would use the pocket rocket;however,if im into doing a lot of cooking I would rather use the whisperlight.I have seen a tooth pick get stuck in the jets and it really messed the stove up.Also,in colder weather the canisters dont work well. Plus who needs more stuff in the landfills.

Jack Tarlin

10-28-2007, 16:55

I guess people get different results.

I've had the same cannister stove for years and have used it successfully in March in North Carolina; in Maine in October; and in New Hampshire in November and December, and never had a problem.

rafe

10-28-2007, 17:36

I'm curious what the scene is like these days for white-gas resupply on the AT, now that white-gas stove usage is in decline. Anybody here have recent experience? There was a time when the situation was reversed: White gas was the fuel of choice, and very few thru-hikers carried canister stoves.

Jack Tarlin

10-28-2007, 17:57

You can still get white gas just about anywhere, i.e. hostels, outfitters, even some motels.

Thge only thing that's changed is that a lot of these places now offer several diffferent kinds of fuel, including denatured alcohol, and sometimes cannisters.

SGT Rock

10-29-2007, 10:19

I think that site would be very interesting and not boring at all. I would appreciate it if you could provide us with that info.
Thank You in advance.

Zelph
I'll see if I can find that reference, I know I have it somewhere in my stash of data and references LOL.

But really quick experiment for anyone interested - I learned this from my 6th grade science teacher who actually was WRONG about what she was trying to prove, but right about the practical application. What she told me back in the 6th grade was yellow flame is hotter than blue flame. That is wrong - blue flame is hotter. But here is the interesting part (and the piece I need the reference for) is the actual flame surface area is bigger in yellow flame, so it acts hotter.

So enough for the background, here is the experiment. Get two paper clips and a lighter. Straighten an end out of each paper clip.

1. Take paperclip #1 and the ligher. Light the lighter and hold the tip of the paperclip in the blue flame of the lighter and wait for the paperclip to heat to red hot. It may take a while so be patient.

2. Take paperclip #2 and the lighter. Light the lighter and hold this paperclip in the yellow flame of the lighter and wait for it to get red hot. For this one you may have to pull the paperclip out occasionally because the yellow flame will sometimes mask the tip turning red. To keep it fair - make sure the same area of paperclip tip is in contact with the flame as you have in the blue flame.

3. Which tip got red faster?

rafe

10-29-2007, 10:24

I always thought that yellow flame was indicative of incomplete combustion. You never see yellow flame from propane/butane/natural gas, unless there's something seriously wrong with the burner unit.

SGT Rock

10-29-2007, 11:10

I always thought that yellow flame was indicative of incomplete combustion. You never see yellow flame from propane/butane/natural gas, unless there's something seriously wrong with the burner unit.

Yellow flames can indicate that. Yellow is not always a good thing. Yellow also does not always indicate the same problem. If you have a good blue flame that just sort of turns yellow at the tips is a good flame. Big yellow flames are BAD.

I remember playing with the old Cat stove back in the day and it spit out LOTS of hot yellow flames. It would go into what I called a "runaway stove" mode where the stove created so much heat it wasted fuel. The stove got hot, it made more fuel vaporize, this cause more heat than was needed, which vaporized the fuel at an even higher rate, which caused bigger flames, which vaporized the fuel faster.... I think you get the point. At a certain point the amount of flames coming out and going everywhere were way more than was needed, and it actually took more fuel to boil water than a stove that creates less heat.

SGT Rock

10-29-2007, 15:57

Here is the article I was talking about: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhotflame.html

zelph

10-29-2007, 18:55

Here is the article I was talking about: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhotflame.html

Thank You Very Much:)

SGT Rock

10-29-2007, 18:57

No problem Zelph. Us stovies have to stick together LOL.

yappy

01-27-2008, 14:44

I luve my pocket r.. it has alot of miles on it and works superb. the fuel lasts about 10 days for me. But, I normally only use it once a day if that.. and i just boil then turn off the stove and let it cook. the whisper lite is good as well but sure is heavier and LOUDER. I have had no problem finding cannisters and don't ever carry an extra one.

CrumbSnatcher

01-27-2008, 15:09

Gotta disagree. The Pocket Rocket is so well made that it very seldom will need a field repair, while a Whisperlite requires regular cleaning and maintenance to remain functional and efficient. (This goes for the Snow Peak Giga as well, which is very similar and in some ways superior to the Pocker Rocket). Plus the cannister stoves are much easier to set up and use, are safer, have fewer parts to get lost or broken; the cannister stoves also store easily, will take up less space in your pack, and of course, they weigh much less.
i agree with jack. i thruhiked with both,they both are great stoves.the pocket rocket is easier & less to carry. in 2003' i dont remember buying more than one fuel canister,hell alot of times i'd get to a hostel and take a canister from a hiker box that had more fuel than the one i was carrying. they last alot more than one hour too. (hardly ever cooked breakfeast or lunch) but i'll never give up my whisperlite international i have a bakepacker that works well with the whisperlite! jack correct me if i'm wrong but i tried to get a few people to stop using windscreens with canisters(i believe your not suppose to trap the heat inside next to the canister.) i hope thier not dead from the explosion1 i also always releashed the pressure in the fuel bottle of the whisperlite after cooking,in99' a guy was walking down the trail when the bottom of his fuel bottle blew up/off from the built up pressure! anyway i never used a windscreen with the pocket rocket,maybe a big rock now and then. p.s. congrats jack on quitting cigerettes...

Lone Wolf

01-27-2008, 15:11

pocket rocket is better. hands down. no contest

rafe

01-27-2008, 16:59

I've used both. The Pocket Rocket is a few ounces lighter and of course easier to start, and simmers nicely. OTOH, if I were traveling as part of a couple or a small group that was cooking together, I'd consider using one Whisperlite for the group.

jnohs

01-27-2008, 17:20

the first time i went backpackingwith my wife it rained out so hard about an hour we got to the summit camp. I had my colmen 30 dollar 3person tent and a 8x10 tarp straped over the top. It thundered and lightnened out so bad! Stayed perfectly dry though. So after that I do not think I will ever go with out both again. I know that with out the tarp over the tent we would of been soaked.

I also know that I need a better tent.

Bearpaw

01-27-2008, 17:44

I prefer to use my Snow Peak Giga Power (very similar to the Pocket Rocket), but when temps are heading below freezing, I'll go with the Whisperlite. I've had problems with my cannister stove burning so poorly at 35 degrees, I had to turn it off and carry the cannister tucked into my jacket for about 10 minutes to warm it to the point that it would pressurize enough to boil a quart of water.

In summer, on longer trips, I prefer my esbit stove.

fiddlehead

01-27-2008, 22:59

carried a whisper lite in Nepal: Clogged continually, after much taking apart, cleaning, and putting back together, would work for maybe a day and then, do it again. Granted the fuel that is available there is not the cleanest. But the stoves they use that resemble the Svea or Optimus work pretty good. (most all gas stoves clogged sooner or later)

Now, the pocket rocket or almost any butane/propane stove, is what the mtn. climbers use. I wonder why? (I saw more using the GAZ but perhaps because there were more Europeans climbing that i saw)

Plus, the noise of a whisper lite? How did it ever get THAT name? it's gotta be one of the loudest stoves out there.

No brainer on this one. (oh, and the weight difference?) (whisper-LITE??)

double d

01-27-2008, 23:28

For the $39 dollars I spent on the pocket rocket, it is one of the best investiments I have made (dollar for dollar) of hiking gear I have bought. Get the pocket rocket, its got all that you need in terms of power, weight, price, and setting up time.

Pedaling Fool

01-27-2008, 23:33

Jaybird62

01-27-2008, 23:59

Gotta agree with everyone else who said pocket rocket. This is the only stove I have ever used, but it works so well I don't see any need to try any other stove.

jhick

01-28-2008, 11:32

I love my pocket rocket. Very rugged and compact. Never needed a wind screen and boiled water in the low 20's. When the stove slows down in the cold, I cup my hand around the canister and in a couple seconds, the flame will increase. Aside from making my fingers a little cold, it boils in almost the same amount of time. I think the larger canister is more stable. Finding the perfect spot on a hard surface is all it takes IMO.

Panzer1

01-28-2008, 12:29

I have both stoves. I use the wisperlite when it is very cold and the pocket rocket the rest of the time.

Panzer

Shea Groebner

02-15-2008, 13:42

I have had a pocket rocket for about 3 years. I am not a thru-hiker but have used it for several mulitnight hikes and enjoy the fact I can cook anything in about 10 to 15 min and use it multiple times a day. It works well for me, although I do not hike in extrememly cold weather. If I had to buy another stove, I would still go with the Pocket Rocket, due to weight and simplicty.

strage

03-13-2008, 04:35

i've seen one wisperlite clog daily, while another stays clean and flawless though the same trip. maybe it was the brand of WG used, maybe it was the stove, kind of hard to tell.

i've used a jetboil in below freezing temps (no thermometer, i don't think it was any of the mornings below 0*) and i've used a wisperlite about -10*(same trip)

oddly enough, i think my personal preference at this point has nothing to do with carry weight. when i'm cooking for two on a week+ trip, it seems that a jetboil pot on a WG stove gets me the best millage for my fuel, and the weight divvies up nicely:)

i'll admit that i tend to get a tad unconventional. i prefer sleeping in a body condom while under a tarp... my backpacking systems happen to work just as well at -25* as 35* and raining, (you can probably tell i spend more time out in the "off season" than most people, in warmer weather i'm more likely in a canoe where weight and size don't really matter)

Mrs Baggins

03-13-2008, 05:59

Never used either one, have a Jetboil. However, I've seen plenty of them on the trail day-after-day at the shelters(shelter rat). I'd pick the Pocket Rocket. Too much pumping with the whisperlite, they are loud as s**t, I've seen them almost catch a table of fire, & too bulky.

Gotta love the simplicity of the Pocket Rocket.

No kidding. We usually used a Whisperlight and renamed it "The Blowtorch" - nearly burned down Hawk Mt shelter last year :eek:. The secret to is carefully slowly filling the little "cup" under the burner with fuel first and then lighting it. At any rate for a hike on my own I chose the Pocket Rocket. So much easier to light up, seems stable enough, and very light. Hubby took one look at it and said we'd be carrying it from now on, no more blowtorch.