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laniamore
12-17-2006, 20:43
They found one climber on Mt. Hood apparently. Let's hope they find the other two... and alive at that...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/17/missing.climbers/index.html

(sorry if there is already a thread on this)

copythat
12-17-2006, 21:09
Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Oregon rescuers late this afternoon found the body of one of three men who disappeared during a climbing trip on Mount Hood in 10 days ago.
The body hasn't been identified, said Marc Smith, deputy sheriff in the Hood River County Sheriff's office. It was in the second of two snow caves found today, he said. More than 40 people were involved earlier today in an attempt to reach a snow cave, a man-made shelter, where the three men were thought to be.
Only a couple people reached the first cave, at about 10,500 feet, said Pete Hughes, another deputy sheriff in Hood River County. All they found was a sleeping bag, rope and ice axes, he said.
“We were able to get to the cave because the weather was a lot better than it's been for the past week,” Hughes said. “Today, the wind was mild rather than 90 miles an hour with snow. We're hoping it will be that way again tomorrow.”
Dozens of searchers from local, state and federal agencies have been looking for hikers Kelly James, 48; Brian Hall, 37, of Dallas; and Jerry Cooke, 36, of New York. They set off Dec. 7 for a hike on the 11,237-foot (3,425-meter) mountain, Oregon's tallest peak.
They planned to climb the north face of the mountain, known as a difficult route because of its 50- to 60-degree slopes and sheer ice walls, and spend two nights on the mountain. They were reported missing when they failed to meet friends at a mountain lodge by Dec. 9 as planned.
The three are skilled climbers equipped with food, fuel, waterproof clothes and sleeping bags, ropes and shovels, said Air Force Captain Chris Bernard, who is coordinating about a dozen members of the 304th Air Force Squadron in the search.

ed bell
12-17-2006, 21:45
Prayers for everyone involved.

mythicyeti
12-18-2006, 03:29
HOOD RIVER, Oregon (CNN) -- One of three climbers missing for more than a week on Mount Hood was found dead Sunday, but authorities said they still hoped to find his companions alive.
"We continue to proceed with this as a rescue for the two remaining climbers," Oregon National Guard Capt. Mike Braibish told reporters.
The body was found inside the second of two snow caves rescuers searched Sunday afternoon, and will not be brought down from the mountain for identification until Monday, Braibish said. (Watch the announcement that one climber was found dead (javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/us/2006/12/17/sot.climber.found.dead.cnn','2006/12/31');) http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/1.5/main/icon_video.gif (javascript:cnnVideo('play','javascript:cnnVideo(' play','/video/us/2006/12/17/sot.climber.found.dead.cnn','2006/12/31');','2006/12/17');))
"I can't even begin to imagine the grief of losing somebody but not knowing who it is," he said. "We're going to find out as soon as possible, and we're going to let those families know. They deserve that."
The caves are in the same area where officials pinpointed a cell phone signal a week ago, when climber Kelly James, 48, of Dallas, Texas, told his family that he was holed up on the mountain.
James also told his family that the other climbers -- Brian Hall, 37, of Dallas; and Jerry "Nikko" Cooke, 36, of Brooklyn, New York -- had gone on.
Two ice axes, a sleeping bag and rope were recovered from the first snow cave, on the northwest side of the mountain, Hood River Sheriff's Department spokesman Gerry Tiffany said.
Climbers construct snow caves for insulation and protection from wind.
Outside the first cave, dug into the snow, was the letter "Y" -- a code used to indicate a climber's location.
Searchers also discovered a fading trail of two sets of footprints.
One set led toward the summit, where they vanished in the wind; the other led downward in what appeared to be an aimless circle, Tiffany said.
The three men began their climb December 8.
Rescue efforts by climbing teams were suspended late Sunday afternoon. But search coordinator Bill Pattison said crews would pore over what they found for guidance on where to look Monday, when good weather was expected to hold.
The search continues

Though it is possible the first cave searched was built by someone else, "you have to assume it was Kelly James' snow cave," Tiffany said.
Rescue teams started up the mountain on the north and south sides at about 6 a.m. (9 a.m. ET), and the climbers on the south side reached the summit by 10 a.m. (1 p.m. ET). (Watch rescuers talk about what they saw (javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/us/2006/12/17/sot.mt.hood.rescue.crew.katu','2006/12/31');) http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/1.5/main/icon_video.gif (javascript:cnnVideo('play','javascript:cnnVideo(' play','/video/us/2006/12/17/sot.mt.hood.rescue.crew.katu','2006/12/31');','2006/12/17');))
Two UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters and a C-130 cargo plane from Nevada will continue searching around the clock in 12-hour shifts, Sgt. Sean Collinson of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office said.
The C-130 has infrared imaging equipment that can sense body heat.
The U.S. Forest Service closed Mount Hood above the Timberline Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail to everyone except search-and-rescue teams.
All but rescue aircraft are banned within a three-mile radius of the mountain.
Dwight Hall, whose son Brian Hall is among the missing climbers, told reporters that family members were on "a roller coaster of emotions."
"Keep in mind that today is only the second day of conditions favorable for a full-scale search-and-rescue effort," he said, adding the time had been well spent even when weather conditions were difficult.
"It's all been progress," he said. "At times it's been frustrating. The dedication of the people out there tackling this effort in these conditions is unparalleled."
Hall added that the families were confident in the abilities of the lost climbers.
"These men are fully capable both mentally and physically to cope with the situation that they find themselves in, and to continue to cope with it and adjust as the situation evolves.
"We have full confidence in them. ... That's what's been able to sustain us."
Favorable weather is predicted for Monday.
"Weather is going to be a factor," Tiffany told CNN Sunday afternoon. "If it starts getting really windy again, it's going to be a problem."
"Yesterday was a positive day," said Capt. Chris Bernard of the 304th Rescue Squadron. "We brought some significant data that we analyzed and has narrowed the scope of our search area."



I'm still holding out hope...

Sly
12-18-2006, 08:58
Hope is fine but instincts tell me the other two are also frozen. Yesterday the weather was clear and the mountain was covered with rescuers. The leftover gear is troublesome. If anyone was alive, I would think they'd also be out trying to signal the helicopters and rescuers. Still, I hope, I'm wrong.

Sly
12-18-2006, 09:19
Fox just had an interview with a guy that survived 13 days on Mt Hood. I didn't catch if it was in December though...

Amigi'sLastStand
12-18-2006, 09:39
. .

woodsy
12-18-2006, 09:50
A tragic and sad turn of events indeed. There seems to be a question of the reliability of the weather forecast these guys were relying on. The storm came in sooner than had been forecasted.
Mountains have a way of making there own weather and as many experienced hikers and climbers know, the weather in mountains can change quickly from good to horrid. Likely the case here and in many other climbing/hiking tradgedies. There have been as many deaths on Mt Washington as on Mt Hood with the former being half the elevation+- of the later.
Weather forecasts are just that, forecasts, and should not be relied on as though it were fact. Eyes to the sky are often more reliable in the mountains.
My sympathy to those affected by this tradgedy.

Sly
12-18-2006, 10:46
The ole . . I wonder what that means?

Desert Lobster
12-18-2006, 12:58
Seems like a waste of resources to me. Could they be playing hide and go seek with the rescue teams?

Typical newscaster:

After finding empty snow cave with a sleeping pad or bag, " this is good news". Yeah right.

Everything spun to not offend the family. The family knows deep down so why spin it?

copythat
12-18-2006, 19:06
Seems like a waste of resources to me. Could they be playing hide and go seek with the rescue teams?

Typical newscaster:

After finding empty snow cave with a sleeping pad or bag, " this is good news". Yeah right.

Everything spun to not offend the family. The family knows deep down so why spin it?

try this on for size:

"... the two remaining hikers are believed to have plunged into a crevice in the Gullies during a period of heavy snow and wind and probably died either in excruciating pain with multiple broken bones and ruptured internal organs or, if they were really lucky, suffocated relatively quickly: perhaps in only 15 minutes."

spun not to annoy desert lobster. ;)

Ramble~On
12-18-2006, 19:14
One climber got hurt in some way and couldn't continue so he was left by his two climbing friends...they went to get help for him....yet the hurt climber is able to make a cellphone call to his son ?
Seems like the cellphone call could have been made for help and the other two could have spent their energies on getting their friend to a lower elevation, less exposed position, better situation.... ?
I wasn't there and don't know the circumstances...I keep hearing that these were "experienced" climbers and given that they were trying to climb a hard route in December says a great deal about their confidence in themselves and their gear.
I too am hopeful for the missing two but if they left to head down the mountain over a week ago and in that time have yet to make contact with anyone.......

Brrrb Oregon
12-18-2006, 20:25
There probably isn't much point in posting this until more is known, but it has been speculated that they missed the southern route off of the summit that they intended to take--the easiest route--and that by the time they back-tracked, rested, and tried again the storm had started to come in. By the time that particular storm was over, literally hundreds of thousands were without power in the valleys below, so that gives an indication of the conditions above. Not only could they not possibly get down, but for day after day nobody could get up to help them.

There aren't many places on that mountain that one would want to be with the wind blowing like that. It is very possible that the remaining two took a bad fall. This is why there are quite a few locals who simply won't climb during this time of year, at least not without a very big window, care of the National Weather Service. The chances of dying are that much higher.

OTOH, there have been some amazing survival stories, particularly among the young and well-insulated. That it is two of them together and with sound legs speaks better for their chances. That they weren't seen out and about in the beautiful weather that Oregon got yesterday does not.

Waterbuffalo
12-18-2006, 21:44
not to seem like a real pain in the butt Who's paying for this rescue?

Sly
12-18-2006, 22:13
not to seem like a real pain in the butt Who's paying for this rescue?

I guess the local taxpayers...

This is an example of why I'd never carry a cellphone for rescue. I go at my own risk and don't expect nor wish anyone to risk their lives on my account...

ed bell
12-18-2006, 23:05
I go at my own risk and don't expect nor wish anyone to risk their lives on my account...Good point and attitude, Sly. I watched footage today of choppers hovering just above the summit of Mt. Hood, while many SAR people were all over the summit area. Not exactly the type of SAR that can be done cautiously. This reality should be on the minds of anyone who tries to go up against the elements in winter.

copythat
12-18-2006, 23:05
from "the oregonian"


... Authorities say that Kelly James -- the missing Texas climber whose body was found in a snow cave on Mount Hood -- had an "obvious arm injury" that may have hindered him from descending the mountain.

Recovery specialists brought Kelly's body down from the mountain this afternoon.

...

"He had an obvious arm injury," said Hood River County Sheriff Joe Wampler.

One of the searchers said James was found in a "fetal position" inside the cave. He was fully clothed when he was found.

Brrrb Oregon
12-19-2006, 02:37
not to seem like a real pain in the butt Who's paying for this rescue?

I know that the Hood River Crag Rats do mountain rescue on a volunteer basis and I'm practically certain that Portland Mountain Rescue does the same. The 304th doesn't charge, either, as they look at this as training for military operations and rescue. As far as I know, the National Guard units look at it the same way. If a victim were to get life flight from a rescue drop-off to a hospital, I believe there is some sort of ambulance bill for that, but if the 304th or another military unit were to take a person straight to Oregon Health Science University or one of the other trauma hospitals in Portland, I don't think there is a charge.

The various county sheriff's offices do not charge, either, so the taxpayers pick that up, just as they would have in the Kim search and rescue down in Southern Oregon. I think the family did pay for extra private helicopters to help in that case, though.....something that is not likely in high elevation searches, as it is tricky and demanding to do. (There was a Black Hawk helicopter crash on Mt. Hood during a rescue several years back. Miraculously, everyone was OK.)

The people who do search and rescue are climbers, themselves. While they all try to be smart so as to become old, they recognize that accidents happen to climbers. They see mountain rescue as their way of giving back to what they love, just as hikers do when they help each other out.

Brrrb Oregon
12-19-2006, 03:14
The weather forecast for tomorrow (Tuesday) looks OK, but it is expected that there will be a return to blizzard conditions on Wednesday and Thursday.

It is also feared that the two remaining climbers may have fallen while trying to descend the mountain by the route that the existing clues indicate. Neverthelless, they may be dug into a snow cave and still alive. We can hope.

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_121506_news_missing_climbers_friday.10a00d9b.h tml

Brrrb Oregon
12-19-2006, 03:39
More on mountain rescue....

Both the Hood River Crag Rats and Portland Mountain Rescue are professional volunteer mountain search and rescue organizations. That is, although trained to professional standards, the members are not paid for their search and rescue activities. The Hood River Crag Rats are the oldest professional search and rescue organization in the United States. To the interest of those on this forum, these search and rescue operations are not confined to areas above the timberline.

These groups belong to a national organization of search and rescue units, mostly volunteer. These units can always use your support. Let us hope not, but someday you or someone you know may need their help. Check it out at http://www.mra.org/.

laniamore
12-19-2006, 10:35
not to seem like a real pain in the butt Who's paying for this rescue?

This from CNN:
The Hood River County Sheriff's Office estimates it spent roughly $5,000 a day for the first three days and about $6,500 a day after that, The Associated Press reported. But that's only part of what will be become the final price tag, the AP said

ekk... but hey it's worth it if they find them...

rafe
12-19-2006, 10:44
This from CNN:
The Hood River County Sheriff's Office estimates it spent roughly $5,000 a day for the first three days and about $6,500 a day after that, The Associated Press reported. But that's only part of what will be become the final price tag, the AP said

I'm surprised the figure is that low. I wouldn't have been at all surprised if they said it was $50K per day. They've had helicopters out there, remote recon vehicles, what-not...

Fannypack
12-19-2006, 11:41
go to http://www.oregonlive.com (on Dec 19) for photos & video....

also this PDF has a map of the search area inc. snow caves locatons, routes, etc...
http://www.oregonlive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/accessor/nph-repository-cache.cgi/base/pdf_captions/1166505904155620.pdf

Fannypack
12-19-2006, 12:06
I forgot to ask:
does anyone know if Elliot Glacier is what hikers see when they hike by Timberline Lodge on the PCT?

Also I just found this site:
http://www.edisaurus.com/misc/recent_trips.htm
which has pics from a copuple of trips to Mt Hood.

Since I am not a climber or a mountaineer I am totally amazed at the difficult conditions as well as the danger that is shown in the pics on the site above.

Brrrb Oregon
12-19-2006, 15:47
I'm surprised the figure is that low. I wouldn't have been at all surprised if they said it was $50K per day. They've had helicopters out there, remote recon vehicles, what-not...

Those figures are for what the sheriff's office is shelling out. They don't include the costs of running the Black Hawk helicopters, which as you imply are substantial.
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_121906_news_climbers_cost.24db5102.html

Oregon law does not charge victims for search and rescue efforts unless the victim is judged negligent. Even in that case, the charge is limited to $500 per person.

I think that is a good way to have it. Nobody can afford to pay anything like the true cost of a search and rescue. We don't want people kept from hiking and climbing because they can't afford the insurance or to try to fly under the radar of officials who might track their whereabouts because they don't have proof of insurance. After all, you can die up there. If that doesn't deter poor or careless decision-making, money considerations probably won't, either.


I forgot to ask:
does anyone know if Elliot Glacier is what hikers see when they hike by Timberline Lodge on the PCT?

Also I just found this site:
http://www.edisaurus.com/misc/recent_trips.htm
which has pics from a copuple of trips to Mt Hood.

Since I am not a climber or a mountaineer I am totally amazed at the difficult conditions as well as the danger that is shown in the pics on the site above.

The north side of the mountain is extremely dangerous right now. Although it is hoped that they are in a snow cave that might yet be found, it is currently thought that the two remaining men may have fallen or been caught in an avalanche. It is so dangerous that ground crews are not even trying to go in there. Instead, the searchers are taking the helicopters close to the snowfield and trying to see what they might turn up by hitting it with rotor wash.

Eliot Glacier is off of the north side of the mountain. You do go right by it on the PCT. Timberline Lodge, OTOH, is due south of the summit of Mt. Hood. If those guys were trying to find the lodge, they were totally turned around. I have not climbed myself, but I am told by those who have that coming off the south side towards Timberline Lodge is by far the easiest descent.

halftime
12-19-2006, 16:56
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2274954n (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2274954n)

CBS News Online

Waterbuffalo
12-19-2006, 20:17
I'm also suprised that figure is low(fuel use for the helicopters) I guess it is because of the volunteers also on the mtn.

copythat
12-19-2006, 20:18
A look at mountain climbers who have survived by taking shelter in snow caves
With BC-Missing Climbers
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — A look at some mountain climbers who have survived by taking shelter in snow caves:
— January 1976: Three teenagers spent 13 days in a snow cave on Mount Hood after bad weather halted their effort to reach the summit. The youths bottled water dripping from the walls and let their bodies warm it before drinking it. They survived on a mush of pudding powder and pancake mix.
Rescuers were about to give up when Randy Knapp, 18, and Matt Meacham and Gary Schneider, both 16, left the cave just before daybreak and spotted a search party. Two of the boys suffered mild frostbite.
— May 1999: Three British climbers dug a snow cave near the summit of Alaska's Mount McKinley in subzero temperatures and gale-force winds. They were rescued 10 hours later. One had a broken leg and frostbite.
— February 2005: Snowshoer Steven Brodsky, 49, survived by building a snow cave on 14,060-foot Mount Bierstadt, about 45 miles west of Denver. Brodsky, who was wearing insulated pants and a jacket, rationed a PowerBar for two days and was able to start a fire with a butane lighter.

wacocelt
12-19-2006, 20:21
Some friends and I stood by the river here in Portland and had an incredible view of Mt Hood, we had enjoyed the view for all of 30 seconds when someone informed us for the lost folks.

My best energies go out to the families of those missing.

Desert Lobster
12-20-2006, 01:59
By the way, when do you suppose Irvine's body is going to pop up?

copythat
12-20-2006, 19:25
http://www.oregonlive.com/

rafe
12-20-2006, 20:54
And FWIW, Mt. St. Helens had a minor eruption yesterday. Mostly just steam, I think. But they were showing the live video from Portland...

copythat
12-21-2006, 00:34
By SARAH SKIDMORE
Associated Press Writer
HOOD RIVER, Ore. (AP) — With yet another snowstorm barreling in, search teams gave up any hope of finding two missing climbers alive on wind-whipped Mount Hood and abandoned the rescue effort Wednesday after nine frustrating days.
“We've done everything we can at this point,” said Hood River County Sheriff Joe Wampler, choking back tears after returning from one last, fruitless flyover of the 11,239-foot peak.

Some of the climbers' relatives had wanted the search called off, though not all, Wampler said, adding that he didn't want to imperil search teams in foul weather.
“This time of year, Mount Hood is a dangerous place to be,” he said at a news conference.

An autopsy Wednesday showed that climber Kelly James had been dead for several days when he was found Sunday. He died of hypothermia. There was no evidence by X-ray of a disabling injury.

Panzer1
12-21-2006, 01:03
Question:

If you are holed up in a snow cave and a avalanche goes right over your snow cave, would your snow cave be destroyed?

Panzer

Brrrb Oregon
12-21-2006, 20:20
Question:

If you are holed up in a snow cave and a avalanche goes right over your snow cave, would your snow cave be destroyed?

Panzer

I think the danger is that if your cave didn't collapse, you might still suffocate under the blanket of snow in a matter of several hours. When in a snow cave, you do have to periodically make sure that you have ventilation, even if you're just getting a heavy snowstorm:

http://www.outdooraustralia.com/ref_files/cave.htm