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skyhiker2
12-17-2006, 21:00
I am having a very difficult time deciding as to weather or not I should take my dog with me when I hike the entire AT this march..

Is there anyone who has done this before and could give me some advise.

I know all about the dog etiquette on the AT, so please don't bomb me with advise like " just keep your dog out of the shelter with me and other people" ,on a leash and out of my face. or it's not fair the dog does'nt get to choose to go or not. I would like some advise from someone who has hiked the entire AT with their dog. Things like resuppling, motels, did they get worn out after a few hundred miles..??? things like that..? Please...!:-? :-?

Lone Wolf
12-17-2006, 21:02
I am having a very difficult time deciding as to weather or not I should take my dog with me when I hike the entire AT this march..

Is there anyone who has done this before and could give me some advise.

I know all about the dog etiquette on the AT, so please don't bomb me with advise like " just keep your dog out of the shelter with me and other people" ,on a leash and out of my face. or it's not fair the dog does'nt get to choose to go or not. I would like some advise from someone who has hiked the entire AT with their dog. Things like resuppling, motels, did they get worn out after a few hundred miles..??? things like that..? Please...!:-? :-?

Research other threads on this website. Your question has been done to death.

general
12-18-2006, 10:04
some dogs do well, some don't. my dog didn't have any physical problems in 1200 or so miles, but many others did. you'll experience some minor inconviences in some towns but you can manage. there is usually a least one hotel in towns that will take your pooch, however it may not be the cheapest and your dog may cost you an extra $20 or so on top of that. and yes, your dogs pack will hold about 6 beers when leaving town.

Bravo
12-18-2006, 10:39
and yes, your dogs pack will hold about 6 beers when leaving town.

I always wondered why so many people want to bring their dog.:D

Sly
12-18-2006, 10:42
I didn't take my dog and it got run over and killed when in anothers care! :(

general
12-18-2006, 12:14
I always wondered why so many people want to bring their dog.:D

that, some companionship, and security officer for pack left outside of resturant. oh yeah, and I'm too lazy to hang a bear bag.

Footslogger
12-18-2006, 12:32
Very personal decision ...but consider this

As much as you love and enjoy your dog (and vice versa), would it be the dog's choice to walk 12 - 15 miles a day on some fairly rough surfaces for 6 months ? Are you the owner prepared to care for the dogs pads when they become blistered and start to bleed.

I love dogs ...and had both positive and negative dog experiences on the trail during my 2003 thru. That said, I would never take a dog on a distance hike.

That's not to say I wouldn't take a dog on a short hike with me. The new smells, sights and sounds are probably great for a dog's spirit. But I've always felt that taking a dog on a distance hike is more about the owner and less about the animal.

Just my opinion and personal observations over the years ...

'Slogger

skyhiker2
12-18-2006, 17:52
Well said my friend.. It is all of those things which I am considering. I am prepared to take care of her. However I just cannot figure out wheater it would be ok ( as in would she be comfortable walking 15-25 miles per day?) I have seen one guy thru-hiking the AT with his dog.. " I was out for the weekend" . I had my dog with me; and he said his had done the trail with him the year before and they were back for the second time "together again" LOL... However I noticed the dog was a bit like a ZOMBIE,, I am guessing it was capable of walking the distance but only did it because it was flowing it's master and was just worn out mentally... ( if that makes sense....) "OR" Was it just the dogs personality.. As of right now I'am leaning towards not taking my dog with me....

noah7
12-18-2006, 20:05
:sun I have been making plans for hiking the AT 2007 with my dog..As far as could she do it....well she has at least 2000 miles of hardcore mt biking in her legs..she can stay out all day....here is the problem...the one problem that nobody talks to much about and is the HEAT. That is the reason that I have decieded not to take my dog with me on the trail..Once the temp goes over 75 degrees and your hiking with your dog you put him or her at a HUGE risk...they cant talk they love you and will follow you to the death. The weather can be unpredictable and I've been on springer in march years ago and it was 80+ every day I was there. The thought of not having my girl with me leaves me sleepless some nights but my sister and her kids have said they would take the dog for the time I was gone and that will be one less thing to think about. Remember..no matter how inshape your dog is, you cant stop the weather..and believe me I'm feeling crappy about my choice but I know Its the right one..peace!!!

skyhiker2
12-18-2006, 20:13
I think your right,, as much as love my girl too... She would follow me to my death or too her's and theres no way to tell how much pain or stress she would be under. I think the possibility of the hike being torturous for her is just to great. With your advice I have made up my mind she must stay home... LOL I'll take a picture instead....

Jack Tarlin
12-18-2006, 20:20
Skyhiker:

Personally, I think you've made the right choice, tho between now and March, I'd take the time to read a few journals/diaries in their entirety of folks who hiked with dogs (www.trailjournals.com is your best resource for this); this will give you a better idea of what day-to-day hiking is like with a dog. Also, if you get the chance, talk personally with hikers that have hiked with dogs. (ALDHA, at www.aldha.org maintains a state-by-state list of folks who have previously hiked who are willing to correspond/meet with prospective hikers; there are also quite a few folks here at WB who've hiked w/dogs as well).

Ultimately, I think most dogs are better off left at home, but I encourage you to talk to as many folks as possible WHO HAVE ACTUALLY THRU-HIKED with a dog before making up your mind.



Best of luck, whatever you decide.

Appalachian Tater
12-18-2006, 22:18
On behalf of your dog, thank you.

smokymtnsteve
12-18-2006, 22:19
Lance Mackey just won the SHEEP MTN 150

ran his team of dogs 150 miles in just under 23 hours.:banana :banana

minnesotasmith
12-19-2006, 01:21
1) Hitching a ride is likely IMO to be harder, esp. in non-pickup truck vehicles. An example from my thruhike: I was picked up in the an ice storm and taken to Dahlonega by a mother-daughter (latter about 20, stunningly attractive, both dressed to the nines for a baby shower) couple in an immaculate small car loaded with glitzy gift-wrapped presents. (My pack and I were a VERY tight fit there.) What are the odds they'd also have been willing to try squeezing in a muddy shedding dog?

2) You can forget being welcome even on the property of the vast majority of trail hostels. Not only would you have to spend significantly more dough (note that motels in the north can run three digits of bucks PER NIGHT, and not all take dogs, either), you'd be separated from other hikers who will go to the hostels. Many hikers (including me) feel that the interactions with trail people are an irreplaceable part of the thruhike experience. By bringing a dog along, you in effect throw away a part of your thruhike before you even start it. I'd say that not repeatedly having the hostel experience (e.g, how Bryson and (after being banned from however many hostels he is now) Warren Doyle "did" their hikes is akin to major yellow-blazing in terms of what you lose out on during your thruhike, but that's my opinion.

3) Your added expenses from bringing a dog along are nontrivial. From boarding and transporting them around prohibited sections of the Trail, to nontrivial chance of pricy emergency vet care (skunk/porcupine/bear/fighting other dogs/foot trauma) that will interrupt your hike, to compensating other hikers for whatever possessions of theirs your animal damages, there are many ways major bills can come your way during a thruhike if you bring your pooch along. Most hikers have money issues, many to the point that running out of money drives them off the trail when they otherwise could have finished. If being near your dog is more important than maximizing your odds of summiting Katahdin, well, that's not far IMO from not being ready to try a thruhike.

4) Your dog WILL inevitably irritate other hikers, unless you are that sort or hiker that either hikes in deep winter only (when noone else is around), or you bushwack near (but not on) the trail the whole way. Why avoidably make it harder on yourself socially?

5) Is your dog more likely to get lost or otherwise come to a bad end if it is taken on a multistate outdoor trip for thousands of miles and 6 months, or if it is safely left inside your house and/or in your fenced backyard, where it knows the locale (and hopefully the neighbors know it)? I saw three different plaintive "dog lost on AT" notices during my thru this year. God knows how many total dogs were actually lost along the Trail this year alone.

Leave your dog at home, and you'll and he will both be better off for it. This way, you'll have a better hike, and he'll be safely at home, waiting for your return.:sun

Jack Tarlin
12-19-2006, 17:58
Geez, is anyone other than me amused to see Minnesota Smith giving advice on "how to make it easier for yourself socially" on the Trail? :D

Didn't realize he was such an authority!

*I gotta disagree with much of what he wrote above: First off, there are folks who'll pick up dogs and their owners who will NOT pick up other hitch-hikers; I know of many folks who've been told "I normally don't do this, but since you're with a dog, I figure you're OK." So having a dog will not necessarily hurt your chances while hitching......it'll cause some folks to pass you by but it'll cause an equal number to deliberately pick you up. Hitching with a dog is much better than, say, hitching with another guy.

*Smitty is also wrong about hostels....most of the better ones make provisions for dogs. It's mainly church hostels that don't, and that's a small handful of places. Even then, there are some where dogs are OK....Troutdale, Delaware Water Gap (if they're OUTSIDE the building!), etc. One might have a problem with motels, but most hostels are OK with dogs.

*A well-trained, well-behaved dog will irritate nobody except those few folks who hate dogs. A poorly-trained, poorly supervised animal will eventually irritate everyone. But to baldly state that your dog will inevitably irritate everyone is not true; I think Smitty's well-known antagonism towards canines is showing in these comments.

I personally think that most dogs are better off at home, but the reasoning that Smitty provides above does not hold up.

mweinstone
12-19-2006, 18:10
lets see. witch of you are further from the mark....... any fool knows that life without dogs is vertually impossible.since the first pat on the head and command,.."common boy!walk?,...wanna go for a walk?!",...dogs have loved us and we love them. they work and play and live and love and die with us. they are a match made in heaven. why is dog spelled backwards god? cause treating a dog badly shows whos with the devil and loving dogs shows whos side your on as well. dogs are from god. our friends alone in the animal kingdom.hike with your cat anyone?

Jack Tarlin
12-19-2006, 18:20
Matthew:

At least three quarters of the dogs I've met on the Trail would have been better off at home, leaving the "good dog" or "tolerable dog" batting average at .250 or less.

The one hiking kitty cat I've met on the Trail was wonderful (and from what I've heard, so was the other one I've heard about). This leaves the cat batting average for the Trail at 1.000.

So yeah, I guess we'd be better off with fewer dogs out there and more kitties.

Oh. I hope you know when I'm kidding around.

LostInSpace
12-19-2006, 18:27
For what it's worth: Lewis and Clark on their journey west purchased many dogs from the native Americans. The Journey of Discovery got tired of eating elk meat and found dog much more tasty. "The Lewis and Clark Journals : an American Epic of Discovery" (http://www.amazon.com/Lewis-Clark-Journals-American-Discovery/dp/0803280394)

mweinstone
12-19-2006, 18:54
mmmmmmmmmm.....dog........

wacocelt
12-19-2006, 19:42
You should absolutely take your dog...




As quickly as possible to the nearest pound or Chinese food restaurant!:D

Desert Lobster
12-19-2006, 21:26
You can always eat the dog if you somehow get hurt and nobody rescues you for a long period of time.

tiamalle
12-19-2006, 21:39
some dogs do well, some don't. my dog didn't have any physical problems in 1200 or so miles, but many others did. you'll experience some minor inconviences in some towns but you can manage. there is usually a least one hotel in towns that will take your pooch, however it may not be the cheapest and your dog may cost you an extra $20 or so on top of that. and yes, your dogs pack will hold about 6 beers when leaving town.If you do take your dog remember that you can't take it into the Smokies,and ask yourself how does your dog react meeting other dogs.

Skippy5883
12-20-2006, 00:11
Hey everybody, I am going to be starting my thru hike in late March with my dog. Believe me, I have given it tons of thought but the idea of not having my best friend there to experience everything with me is far worse than the extra money, possibly time, and aggrivating the unfortunate few that hate dogs. I am not planning on staying in any shelters so that is a null issue. As for hitching to town, I know that it will take someone special to pick us up but I'm not worried about it. I guess that my situation is unique in that I'm not having to worry about finishing in time to get back to work, and I don't really have a buget that I have to stay within. I know that it would be nice to every so often stay in a hostel or motel but I am OK with giving up thoes little things. Maybe I'm being a little blind about things but I know for me this is the way to go. I know that it would be much easier to get someone to take him home if he just can't do it, but it would be stupid to try and start hiking with him after I have already been on the trail.
I do agree that if you do plan on bringing your dog that he/she needs to be very well trained (not only manners and general obedience but also how to hike with a pack and how to act around other hikers and dogs). I have also spent some good time talking to my family vet about what to watch out for and how to best take care of him.
Any further advice that anybody could give me about doing the hike with my dog would be much appreciated!
Good luck to everyone! and me and my boy will see you on the trail!!

W and Otto

tiamalle
12-20-2006, 00:46
Hey everybody, I am going to be starting my thru hike in late March with my dog. Believe me, I have given it tons of thought but the idea of not having my best friend there to experience everything with me is far worse than the extra money, possibly time, and aggrivating the unfortunate few that hate dogs. I am not planning on staying in any shelters so that is a null issue. As for hitching to town, I know that it will take someone special to pick us up but I'm not worried about it. I guess that my situation is unique in that I'm not having to worry about finishing in time to get back to work, and I don't really have a buget that I have to stay within. I know that it would be nice to every so often stay in a hostel or motel but I am OK with giving up thoes little things. Maybe I'm being a little blind about things but I know for me this is the way to go. I know that it would be much easier to get someone to take him home if he just can't do it, but it would be stupid to try and start hiking with him after I have already been on the trail.
I do agree that if you do plan on bringing your dog that he/she needs to be very well trained (not only manners and general obedience but also how to hike with a pack and how to act around other hikers and dogs). I have also spent some good time talking to my family vet about what to watch out for and how to best take care of him.
Any further advice that anybody could give me about doing the hike with my dog would be much appreciated!
Good luck to everyone! and me and my boy will see you on the trail!!

W and OttoSkippy,I'm not trying to make a sale,but as you pass Franklin,NC.I have a little bus to bring hikers into town free.If you have a dog,stink,look ugly like me.You are welcome and I am pet friendly at our motels.How friendly?I don't charge extra for the dogs,but a deposit.I put
that in but I will help you with a dog as I do hikers w/out a dog.Enjoy

:welcome

Skippy5883
12-20-2006, 01:02
That sounds awesome Tiamalle!! Is there a limit on how big the dog can be (he is only 11 mopnths old right now and weighs 85lbs. should be around 115 by the start of the trail)? I'll make sure to make a stop! I am really looking foward to getting on the trail. I know that it's going to be a huge adventure.
I have been reading up on some of the other threads about taking a dog on the trail and I am getting kinda irritated with it. It seems that any problems that may arise are from the lack of the owners control of their dog. So with that said, if anybody has a problem with me or my dog ( which I feel is highly unlikely) please do not hesitate to tell me or any other dog owner what the problem is.
OK had to vent a little, people are getting kinda stupid about this whole dog thing.
Anywhoo, I'll put a pic of us up soon so say hey if you see us on the trail!!!! :D

W and Otto

The Weasel
12-20-2006, 01:25
Skippy --

This has all been ventilated elsewhere, and the dispute is an old one. Don't get too upset. But the "anti-dog" crowd has some very good points, and you need to recognize that, and deal with it in a positive fashion. Here are some:

--- It's easy to say that you won't use shelters, but you will. You'll make friends as you hike who use them, and you're not going to leave them each night to hike further up the trail. Shelters are where water is, where social life happens, and more. Your dog is going to be there, and some won't like that, no matter how nice he is.

--- You're going to keep a dog on a leash for almost every moment of seven months. If you don't, you run serious risks of losing your dog. I don't care how well trained it is...are you willing to unleash it and take even a small chance your "best friend" will disappear forever? I've seen it happen.

--- Your dog can't complain. You're going to have serious discomfort from this, with all manner of internal and muscular-skeletal issues. All of us did. Your dog will too, but you're not going to know when a lot of them happen. This is serious walking, and it's hard on animals to do that.

--- People are going to have legitimate problems with your dog, and not just from your control of it. Even if not in shelters, dogs intimidate many people, leave waste that is often/usually unburied (as much as humans do), and (if at shelters) are not welcome by many inside the shelter at night even in (or especially in) bad weather.

There are more, but the most important one is the first I mention. While there are people who have done the whole trail with dogs, a dog is going to make it harder in an infinite number of ways for you to finish.

The Weasel

RAT
12-20-2006, 01:32
I agree, dogs are for shorter hikes and not for thru hiking. Leave the dog at home for their sake and others. No offense, I like dogs. Trained em for years.

RAT

bfitz
12-20-2006, 01:39
Depends on the dog. I know some great hiking dogs. Depends on the human, too.

Skippy5883
12-20-2006, 01:44
Weasel, I do agree with you 100%. He is not going to be off-leash and unless the weather is horrible (which I know does happen) we will be staying in the tent. I am a huge advocate of LNT and agree with you that his waste is going to be treated just the same as mine. The way that I am going about thinking of taking him, is to look at it from others point of view the best that I can. I, not only as a dog owner but as a fellow hiker, want everything to go smoothly not only for me and my dog but for everyone else that we may come across.
As I have said before, if it seems that he is having too hard of a time with the hike or people are not accepting of him (which could very well happen because he is not exactly a tiny lap dog, 85lb German Shepherd) I would much rather get him home so he would be happier and I can finish the hike without incident. I just don't want my actions by deciding to bring him on my hike to not allow others to enjoy theirs to the fullest. We'll just have to see how it goes...haha!

Desert Lobster
12-20-2006, 02:00
If the weather is horrible, might not that be the best time to keep him out of the shelter?

Lone Wolf
12-20-2006, 03:03
Weasel, I do agree with you 100%. He is not going to be off-leash and unless the weather is horrible (which I know does happen) we will be staying in the tent.

Even if the weather is horrible your dog and you should stay in a tent.

anders08
12-20-2006, 03:30
if your dog has a better stamina than you. then go grab him with you :D just kidding. if you think your dog can, just bring him with you.

RAT
12-20-2006, 03:49
You can always eat the dog if you somehow get hurt and nobody rescues you for a long period of time.

Good point, German Shepards are really good eatin' too ;)

RAT

The Weasel
12-20-2006, 05:33
Good point, German Shepards are really good eatin' too ;)

RAT

Skippy:

I'm VERY glad you'll deal with your dog's waste, but I think you're still making 3 mistakes here:

1) You're going to stay in shelters a LOT, good weather or not. It's almost impossible unless you are totally antisocial. A thru hike is as much social as physical, with friends made along the way helping you do it. Look at journals of people who finish: Everyone thanks all their friends along the trail. You're just NOT going to kiss them off every night and go further down the trail and pitch a tent. Sorry. I know you mean it, but it ain't gonna happen.

2) "Except in bad weather" is when you're gonna be very unwelcome with a wet dog in a shelter. I'm not sure if you know the size of shelters (small) and the hiker rule that there is always room for another person in bad weather. And if you start in the "season" that means jammed shelters in the rain/snow. You're going to be seriously upsetting a lot of people if you try to bring your dog in, wet and smelly, for a long term (day or two, sometimes) wait out of the weather.

3) If you were hiking with a lab or a cute mutt, that's one thing. But you have to know that German Shepherd scare the crap out of a lot of people. What's their other name? POLICE dogs? Because they can attack? I know, FOR SURE, your dog is gentle. But he looks like a coyote, he will scare a lot of people, and he will cause confrontations you just don't want.

Dude, we all feel for you. And you can do it if you want. But you're gonna be dooming your thru before you start, not to mention the problems for your pup.

The Weasel

tiamalle
12-20-2006, 21:25
That sounds awesome Tiamalle!! Is there a limit on how big the dog can be (he is only 11 mopnths old right now and weighs 85lbs. should be around 115 by the start of the trail)? I'll make sure to make a stop! I am really looking foward to getting on the trail. I know that it's going to be a huge adventure.
I have been reading up on some of the other threads about taking a dog on the trail and I am getting kinda irritated with it. It seems that any problems that may arise are from the lack of the owners control of their dog. So with that said, if anybody has a problem with me or my dog ( which I feel is highly unlikely) please do not hesitate to tell me or any other dog owner what the problem is.
OK had to vent a little, people are getting kinda stupid about this whole dog thing.
Anywhoo, I'll put a pic of us up soon so say hey if you see us on the trail!!!! :D

W and OttoHe's big enough to ride if you get tired,But I'll help you even if he's big

woodsy
12-20-2006, 23:02
You know damn well the dog won't be leashed all the time and that dogs nose will pick up animal scents and will want to run off, and will if unleashed.
Case in point: Dropped a friend off with his lab at the north end of 100 mile wilderness. Heading south 3rd night out ,dog runs off chasing scent. A bushwack ensued in search of dog....no dog .Night fell ,dog returned sometime in the night all beat up from running in woods , had to be carried some till a logging road was crossed and followed out. He and dog managed to get a ride into Guilford and I got a phone call at 9:00 p.m on a rainy night for a ride,drove two hours in rain, dodged two moose(just barely) and retrieved their sorry wet arses, drove two more hours back*******. What a pain all because of the dog. Think about it.........

Blissful
12-20-2006, 23:44
Seems like a dog under two years is pretty young for something this major too and likely will still be in a bit of a puppy syndrome, which means they are very curious and active.

As much as I will miss her, my beagle will be at home. I know she will miss me too and won't understand, but it's the best thing for all of us.

superman
12-21-2006, 08:52
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
some dogs do well, some don't. my dog didn't have any physical problems in 1200 or so miles, but many others did. you'll experience some minor inconviences in some towns but you can manage. there is usually a least one hotel in towns that will take your pooch, however it may not be the cheapest and your dog may cost you an extra $20 or so on top of that. and yes, your dogs pack will hold about 6 beers when leaving town.

Good advise... as are some of the other posts. Be very careful to not over load your dog. I enjoyed the company of my white german shepard. I'm not that much of a hiker so the issue of hiking my dog into the ground didn't apply. On balance I would say that Winter made my hike better and easier. I'm considering re-hiking the AT in 07 but Winter is too old for a thru hike.

Last fall Winter and I were south bounding on the LT. We were struggling up and down the mountains so I said to her "you aren't so fast now...I'll bet you couldn't out run a bear any more." She said "I don't have to run fast...I just have to run faster than you."

Moxie00
12-21-2006, 10:11
One of the real joys of long distance hiking is when you are just getting to sleep in a shelter and a wet dog come in, shakes, and gives you a refreshing shower. Dogs will sometimes jump on tents knocking them down. This insures that next time the hiker will set their tent up better. Another real treat is when you are not looking and a dog eats out of your bowl. Many hiker could stand to be a bit leaner and a begging or stealing dog will insure you don't overeat on the trail. Any hiker that has tripped over a dog that runs between their legs will appreciate the value of hiking poles in keeping their ballance. Often hikers with dogs get to see places other hikers will never see near the trail while searching for a dog thet has run off. The sound of a hiker yelling at his lost or misbhaving dog keeps the rest of us awake. Dogs also often will chase deer and rabbits so you are safe from wild animals when you bring a dog. By all means bring your dog. It will be a joy for other hikers and may even run off a shelter cat or two so the mice population will not suffer.

Touch of Grey
12-21-2006, 10:49
I would love to be able to take my best friend with m on my thru attempt next March.

That having been said there are way too many logistical problems with doing so.
1) SMNP does not allow them.
2) If memory serves me well there are a couple of others areas where it is prohibited.
3) it is hard on them because;
a) there pads on their paws are not made for long distances
b) not all dogs will willing allow something on their backs (carry their own weight - Not literally but figuratively by carrying their own food and supplies)
c) on days when you want to do BIG miles they will hold you back.
4) As mentioned before as much as you love them, many others do not.
5) Too many people let their dogs run free and that is an issue in and of itself. (You may feel confident in your dogs abilities and friendliness. In the real world though given their druthers, they will beg and steal food and get under other people nerves and feet.)

All of those things having been said, if you still wish to take you friend with you, think about others and the wildlife along the trail and keep your dog on a leash as much as possible. This sounds cruel but other hikers will appreciate you for it and you just may appreciate it for what it may do to keep you sane in the event that you come across a porcupine, skunk or bear in addition to the snake issues and then have to deal with a lost dog or a severely hurt or dead dog.

People domesticated dogs for a reason and that is the main reason why it is a somewhat bad idea to take one along.

That's my pennies worth of opinion/advice for what it is worth!

TOG

minnesotasmith
12-21-2006, 11:36
One of the real joys of long distance hiking is when you are just getting to sleep in a shelter and a wet dog come in, shakes, and gives you a refreshing shower. Dogs will sometimes jump on tents knocking them down. This insures that next time the hiker will set their tent up better. Another real treat is when you are not looking and a dog eats out of your bowl. Many hiker could stand to be a bit leaner and a begging or stealing dog will insure you don't overeat on the trail. Any hiker that has tripped over a dog that runs between their legs will appreciate the value of hiking poles in keeping their ballance. Often hikers with dogs get to see places other hikers will never see near the trail while searching for a dog thet has run off. The sound of a hiker yelling at his lost or misbhaving dog keeps the rest of us awake. Dogs also often will chase deer and rabbits so you are safe from wild animals when you bring a dog. By all means bring your dog. It will be a joy for other hikers and may even run off a shelter cat or two so the mice population will not suffer.

The writing in this piece approaches Jonathan Swift's best work IMO. (I agree wholeheartedly with its satirically-made points as well.) :clap :clap

superman
12-21-2006, 17:59
Dogs are just like people except they have four paw drive. Most people aren't suited to a long distance hike just as most dogs aren't...either physically or mentally. If your hike depends on another person you are reducing your chances of finishing just as it does with a dog. I've met all kinds of people on the trail...some of them had no business being there just as some of the dogs I've encounter. I've known people with no trail etiquette, no socialization to the trail, and some folks that were just plain nasty. The big difference is if you're the one who holds the leash you have to educate yourself to the trail before you can train your dog for the trail. You've got to be prepared for the down side if it doesn't work out. If you hold the leash it's your job to understand what your dog needs and deal with it. I personally avoid shelters with or without Winter. The mice **** messes up my sinuses, I snore, other people snore, inane conversations, cotton people, can't get comfortable on the plank floors, wet muddy people and gear passing over me and my gear and too many democrats.:welcome

Skippy5883
12-21-2006, 22:18
Well Superman, I'm with you! I do understand all of the concerns that people have about bringing a dog but I know what my dog is capable of and I know how he acts. I am the best judge of how he is everyday. I know that we will have fun on the trail.
Some people will say that since we won't be able to do some parts of the trail because I have my dog then it won't be a "true" thru hike. Well...it is a thru hike to us because we are doing what we want and we will be on the trail all the time that we are allowed to be. The trip is what you make of it.
This whole discussion about whether or not to bring my dog has really opened my eyes to how the trail really is and how some people will precieve us on the trail. It has been kind of shocking to hear the responses that some have posted. It really seems that some people dispise dogs, and from what they type it is amazing to think that somebody feels this way. Although like I have said plenty of times there are a ton of legitimate thigs to take into consideration, of which I feel like I have covered them all. But we will be there having fun and making the hike what we want it to be. So with that said... Otto and I will see you on the trail!!!!

emerald
12-21-2006, 23:07
Those who insist upon attempting to thru-hike with a dog should read the page linked below.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm

superman
12-22-2006, 10:54
Skippy
From the posts on this site you would think that you'll be encountering some angry mob of out of control hikers. It won't be like that. Winter hiked the AT, sections of the CDT, PCT, FT and others. The biggest problem I ever had was that well meaning hikers would play too rough or feed Winter things she shouldn't have (mostly chocolate). The other hikers are very dog friendly but don't really know how to treat a dog so keep your eye on them. I always avoid shelters for a whole list of reasons but only one reason has to do with the dog. Basically if you conduct yourself with an attitude to not interfere with other hikers you'll be fine. Dogs are easier to train on a trail than people realize. Dogs learn by repetition and example. It's easier to train a dog to go to the bathroom off the trail than it is some humans. A vet tech told me early on to watch for changes in my dog’s behavior. You can't go by appearance since your dog will lose weight also. Your dog should smile at you because it enjoys being there. If the dog isn't happy or is sluggish you need to focus on what's going on with the dog. That's not a big deal either since you both will be very attuned to each other. It's common for dogs, like people, to lose their apetite in the beginning. I mixed a small amount of beef jerky into Winter's food and that got her eating. Every morning when we hiked by ourselves Winter and I would sing "How Much is that Doggie in the Window." She still perks up and sings with me every time I sing it. I wish Winter hadn't gotten too old to hike. My hikes will never be as good with out her.
Enjoy and hike your own hike.

general
12-22-2006, 21:31
[quote=minnesotasmith;288495]1) Hitching a ride is likely IMO to be harder, esp. in non-pickup truck vehicles. An example from my thruhike: I was picked up in the an ice storm and taken to Dahlonega by a mother-daughter (latter about 20, stunningly attractive, both dressed to the nines for a baby shower) couple in an immaculate small car loaded with glitzy gift-wrapped presents. (My pack and I were a VERY tight fit there.) What are the odds they'd also have been willing to try squeezing in a muddy shedding dog [quote]

yeah right. i had a guy pull over in a brand new caddy with the dealer tags on it. it had been raining for days and both the dog and i were covered in mud. i said, man i can't get into that car like this, and he said, don't you think that if i've got enough money to buy this car, that i've got enough to pay somebody to clean it up. now, get your azz in the car.

Blissful
12-22-2006, 22:10
[quote=minnesotasmith;288495]yeah right. i had a guy pull over in a brand new caddy with the dealer tags on it. it had been raining for days and both the dog and i were covered in mud. i said, man i can't get into that car like this, and he said, don't you think that if i've got enough money to buy this car, that i've got enough to pay somebody to clean it up. now, get your azz in the car.

lol, That's pretty funny.

superman
12-23-2006, 09:08
I was always impressed with the cross section of America that would stop and give Winter and I rides. It was easier to get a ride with Winter with me than with out her. A few examples:

When Dolly with her dog Shelby, Winter and I got to the NOC Dolly put out her thumb and a guy pulled right over. He had a huge dog. He drove us to a motel with three dogs, our gear and three people...it was cramped.

One time hitching into Gorham, NH Winter had laid down behind me in the shade. I stood by the road trying to look harmless but I couldn't get a ride. I guess Winter knew what to do because she walked to me and sat next to my leg. A car pulled right over.

Winter and I were trying to get a resupply ride on a back road in Vermont. An elderly couple pulled over and had Winter sit between them in the front seat. I sat in back and they would ask Winter questions as if she was human and I had to answer from the back as if Winter were speaking. It was pretty sick but it was a ride. LOL

A lot has to do with the training but a lot has to do with the breed and the personality of the individual dog. Like much of life....attitude is important.

Moxie00
12-23-2006, 17:30
I hiked with Superman and Winter and that was one combination that fit right in. Amtrack and Hayden was another hiker and dog combination that was no problem at all. It was a pleasure hiking with both those hikers and their dogs. It all depends on how well both the dog and the hiker are trained. That same year there were dogs out there that would have been better left home or even better shot on sight. One young lady picked up a stray in Tn. and brought it all the way to Vermont. That dog was untrained, undiciplined and it crapped in one shelter, knocked over several tents, got into fights and was unwelcome everywhere. Another dog, a German Shepard like Winter was exactly the opposite of Winter, it begged, stole food, laid on other hikers gear when wet and was a nusance. The dog's master was a really nice guy but when he quit the trail in New Jersey no one missed his dog. Yes, there are some great dogs out there and I enjoyed hiking with them but a few really bad ones created a very bad impression of all dogs. If you feel your dog is trained and you can control it bring it, but be aware there will be problems. If you don't have complete control over your dog and are not diciplined yourself then leave it home. If you get out there and it is not comfortable then send Rover home.

Johnny Swank
12-23-2006, 19:06
I just don't want my actions by deciding to bring him on my hike to not allow others to enjoy theirs to the fullest. We'll just have to see how it goes...haha!

Then leave the dog at home. Have you actually ever hiked with your dog for at least a couple of weeks at a time before? Not trying to be a pain, but your posts sound fairly naive about dogs and their impacts on both the AT and other hikers.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but your dog is probably going to be loved by 20% of other hikers, absolutely hated by an opposite 20%, with about 60% that won't say anything but will probably resent having to deal with being around it on the trail if anything happens.

noah7
12-23-2006, 21:51
Before I leave for my thru-hike in march...I Noah7 will go to a local car rental place and rent a large wagon..then I will go visit all the local pounds on my way down to springer and purchase as many dogs as possible. While future thru-hikers leave the top of springer, I will be dug in a trench with hopefully 2000 plus pooooooochies...one by one as a hiker leaves I let a dog go...this will be the year of the DOG!!!!......karma:eek:

Vi+
12-23-2006, 22:55
Skyhiker2,

You asked the question (Post #1), “should I take my dog?” You promptly backed away from the answers you anticipated.

The simple clarity of your question deserves a similar answer, “No.”

general
12-24-2006, 11:24
Then leave the dog at home. Have you actually ever hiked with your dog for at least a couple of weeks at a time before? Not trying to be a pain, but your posts sound fairly naive about dogs and their impacts on both the AT and other hikers.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but your dog is probably going to be loved by 20% of other hikers, absolutely hated by an opposite 20%, with about 60% that won't say anything but will probably resent having to deal with being around it on the trail if anything happens.

hike your own hike. since when is it a requirement to give a rats azz what other people think.

Johnny Swank
12-24-2006, 15:23
I don't know general-Maybe when the guy is actually asking for advice about bringing a dog on the trail and what some of the ramifications are?

I don't care one way or another as long as the dog is on a leash and not being a pain in the butt. Having said that, I think that most hikers that bring their dogs are oblivious to just how much hassle their precious little darlings can be to other hikers.

general
12-24-2006, 17:29
why make assumptions about how a particular dog will be received by others. as for how others feel about my dog i am not oblivious, i just don't care. don't like me or my dog, hike faster. my hike is my hike, your hike is your hike. don't like something about your hike, then fix it YOURSELF.

superman
12-28-2006, 17:16
I wonder if it's hard to make an informed choice with all the rhetoric thrown around on the hiking sites. Even Wing Foot enjoyed hiking with a dog one year. I'm glad that I made my choice to take Winter on my thru hike. It was better for having her with me. It worked out for Winter and I but things can just as well not work out. Kind of like some of the spouses I saw crash and burn on the trail. I can say how it worked out for Winter and I, and then there is the anti-dog stories, and in the end you pay your money and you takes your chances. Good luck. If it works out or it doesn't work for you...it's your choice. Winter is too old to hike now but if I make a move for her pack, which hangs on the back of the chair near her bed, she's ready to go with a big smile.

dixicritter
12-29-2006, 10:45
Notice



This forum was created for the purpose of discussing how to responsibly hike the trail with a dog. The purpose of the forum is not to debate the whole topic of dogs on the trail. If your aim is to do so, please go to The general forum or poll forum or something. Otherwise stay away from these threads.


That said, if you disagree with dogs on the trail, it is probably because of unaware or irresponsible owners. The purpose of this forum was to try to fix that. The hope is dog hikers can pass on to each other the things that make the rare, good trail dogs a good trail dog. If more trail dogs benefit from good owners, then maybe there will be less problems in the long run.


If a dog owner that plans to bring their dog to the trail comes here and learns all the informal rules; the health, safety, and first aid issues they must consider; the impact a hike can have on a dog, the impact a dog can have on a hike; the equipment and pack weight issues to consider; effects of secondary predation, disease, and other impacts of wildlife on the dog and the dog on the wildlife; and the overall impact of the dog hiker on other hikers and even other dogs - The hope is that a dog owner can participate in the forum and learn all the informal rules and how hard it can really be to hike with a pet responsibly, and then allow them to make a personal, informed decision to either not hike with a pet or to go on the trail armed with the skills, knowledge, and attitude to do it correctly.


All that said, this forum came about this way because it had to. Every time the topic of how to act responsibly, the thread deteriorated into another battle against dog lovers against the supposed "dog haters". So if you plan to post here, post advice about how to backpack responsibly with the pet as a response to the question or topic. Due to past experiences the threads will be monitored closely for failure to comply. Abusers will loose the ability to read or post on this forum.


Enough Said!

SGT Rock
12-30-2006, 05:00
Rhetoric goes both ways there guys. This forum is to talk about how to hike well with a dog. Though some may do better to not bring their dog, they have to come to that conclusion. On the other hand if someone asks should they and someone says "based on what you said, probably not" then that is also a valid answer to the question and they don't need to be flamed for answering the question asked.

walkalotapus
12-30-2006, 20:17
Think carefully. I fully agree with all of the advice that tells you to read trailjournals. and correspond with people. I section hiked with my dog in 2006, and we'll both be doing a few things differently when we finish in 2007..like slowing down and more play time. I find a little courtesy, keeping you dog on a leash, good obedience training, staying out of water sources, and planning your distance around your dog help with the other hikers. I never had a problem with a hiker or hotel. Just expect to spend more time in your tent..and your hike gets planned around the dog sometimes..and you might not get the hike you expected.

yappy
12-30-2006, 21:58
Please don't take her.And surely don't listen to Steve about Lance mackey !!! that has nothing to do with anything. I have seen horrible things on the AT and Pct for that matter with dumb owners and struggling dogs. It causes fights and you may not make many friends. For some unfathamable reason people become BLIND when it comes to thier animals. they are SO self absorbed.. and don't want to go home or change thier hike... that they " drag " thier dog. it is a disgrace....We hiked 1000 of pct with Lulu and we carried her food. Only fair and she surely didn't carry any beer for us... YUCK. Why should she carry your junk ? It was the heat that did her in... when she stopped having fun so did I and we were done. We had thru hiked in 96 so it wasn't particularily a hard decision but would have made the same one even if we hadn't already done the trail. I think she had a great time... but it was hard on her and it took her 2 weeks to get her usual strength back... On the AT in 05 there was a jerk out there. I won't go into it.. but it was ugly... wish I had done more about it ...:mad:

yappy
12-30-2006, 22:22
If you have to keep you dog on a leash the WHOLE time then don't take her !! For heaven sakes.... no dog wants to be on a leash 10 hrs a day. Thier speed is definitely NOT yours. They need to move comfortably or it will suck for them. Lulu was free the whole time on the Pct... she didn't run off.. but she explored her world.. and pooped where she wanted to. How the heck are you gonna keep up with her poop ? Do you have any idea how tired your gonna be ?? The extra energy you have.. ALL OF IT.. has to go to the dog. We were on a sobo hike of the Pct so we didn't see anyone basically and she was free. I wouldn't take her on the AT... it is just not fair to her... I surely hope that you have enough faith in your dog to let her go.... they need to run... Jesus, I get so sick of this topic... I suppose you are gonna keep her outta the creeks too... good luck. She won't understand why she can't drink and play in the water... swim in the ponds etc....You know, we talk about training the dog.. people should be trained.. to understand that dogs are NOT little people... who will do what we want all the time... we need to let them be dogs... and to be quite frank, the AT is TOOOOOOOOOO busy for that. I wish they just say no dogs over about 500 miles.

Rouen
01-01-2007, 03:29
Think carefully. I fully agree with all of the advice that tells you to read trailjournals.

curious how exactly do you find journals from people who've hiked with dogs?
I've tried searching but just come up with people who have dog(s) in their name, and I've only ever seen 2 on there and those were people from this forum(Phreak and Superman)
does Heald have a journal?

Pokey2006
01-01-2007, 03:53
I don't have a dog, so I can't help you too much...but from what I saw on the trail, just a word or two of caution/advice:

If you DO take your pooch, make sure A) he/she stays healthy, and B) he/she is enjoying the hike.

Try it out, but let your dog tell you whether he/she wants to be out there. If he/she isn't adjusting well, or isn't liking it, or starts failing health-wise, have a back-up plan for someone to care for the dog while you finish the trek.

One dog owner I saw had a special salve he rubbed on her paws every chance he could get, just to prevent injury from her paws walking on rocks every day. Check that out. And, like that hiker did, TAKE CARE OF YOUR DOG! Don't run your dog ragged -- if it looks like it's starving to death (yes, I've seen dogs in really bad shape, to the point of animal abuse), send the poor pooch home, for crying out loud.

I honestly never had a problem with dogs bothering me on the trail, and I really do not like dogs. I think most of them are too tired to bother people. Or we're too tired to care.

Good luck!

SteveJ
01-01-2007, 12:59
clip
One dog owner I saw had a special salve he rubbed on her paws every chance he could get, just to prevent injury from her paws walking on rocks every day. Check that out. clip

udder balm..... I've started using it on Phoebe when we hike - the last hike I didn't use it she had dried out split paws when we got home and hobbled around for a week or so after the weekend hike... not a problem since we started using it.....

yappy
01-01-2007, 13:16
I find it truely remarkable when folks ask about others experiences with hiking long distance.. when they get a response they don't like they just ignore it or don't respond to it. I can only hope that those thinking on hiking with the dogs take the cautionary words to heart... esp. if they have never hiked long distance themselves. You can learn alot on this forum but only if we arw willing to open up our ears and truely listen. I have done a fair amount of this...I learned alot from others along the way... but mostly I have learned from doing the miles myself.
Please, think long and hard about your dogs... and the kinda freedom they deserve if they are going to go with you. For every dog that prospers out there there are 10 that break down. DONT just take the " good stories " without lookiing at the bad.....be prepared to go home if you have to... no trail is worth the beating heart and loyal spirit of your dog.

superman
01-03-2007, 16:06
I've tried searching but just come up with people who have dog(s) in their name, and I've only ever seen 2 on there and those were people from this forum(Phreak and Superman)

I had my journal on Trailplace. I relocated after my AT thru hike and by the time I got settled Wingfoot had deleted my whole journal. Winter was so easy to hike with that most of my posts simply mentioned that "Winter is asleep and I will be soon." I'd tell you scary stuff but that wasn't what my AT hike was like. Maybe Winter and I were lucky but I've known many people who happily hike with their dogs. We must all be so obtuse that we don't know how our hikes are?

Nightwalker
02-02-2007, 15:12
lets see. witch of you are further from the mark....... any fool knows that life without dogs is vertually impossible.since the first pat on the head and command,.."common boy!walk?,...wanna go for a walk?!",...dogs have loved us and we love them. they work and play and live and love and die with us. they are a match made in heaven. why is dog spelled backwards god? cause treating a dog badly shows whos with the devil and loving dogs shows whos side your on as well. dogs are from god. our friends alone in the animal kingdom.hike with your cat anyone?

Dude! I love you, man. Very nice indeed.

Nightwalker
02-02-2007, 15:14
You can always eat the dog if you somehow get hurt and nobody rescues you for a long period of time.

I value my dog more than I do you. Mmmmmmm, lobster.

Nightwalker
02-02-2007, 15:34
Dude, we all feel for you. And you can do it if you want. But you're gonna be dooming your thru before you start, not to mention the problems for your pup.

The Weasel

I think that you'd get a different answer if you talked to someone who'd actually hiked a lot of miles with a dog. Heald and Annie come to mind. Ask Nean about them.


P.S. Everyone seems to love Annie. She's got about 15,000 trail miles and would probably grieve herself to death if Heald went without her.

Nightwalker
02-02-2007, 15:45
Well Superman, I'm with you! I do understand all of the concerns that people have about bringing a dog but I know what my dog is capable of and I know how he acts. I am the best judge of how he is everyday. I know that we will have fun on the trail.
Some people will say that since we won't be able to do some parts of the trail because I have my dog then it won't be a "true" thru hike. Well...it is a thru hike to us because we are doing what we want and we will be on the trail all the time that we are allowed to be. The trip is what you make of it.
This whole discussion about whether or not to bring my dog has really opened my eyes to how the trail really is and how some people will precieve us on the trail. It has been kind of shocking to hear the responses that some have posted. It really seems that some people dispise dogs, and from what they type it is amazing to think that somebody feels this way. Although like I have said plenty of times there are a ton of legitimate thigs to take into consideration, of which I feel like I have covered them all. But we will be there having fun and making the hike what we want it to be. So with that said... Otto and I will see you on the trail!!!!

You should also take into account that most of the haters, baiters and imitation dog lovers out there don't really hike a lot. Some do, but most either don't or haven't in a good while. Also keep in mind that there are anti-(fill in blank) people of all sort who will not be happy if they have nothing to complain about.

Your mileage may vary. Professional driver, closed course. Hike your own hike as long as you do no (real not imagined) harm.

Johnny Swank
02-02-2007, 16:03
You should also take into account that most of the haters, baiters and imitation dog lovers out there don't really hike a lot. Some do, but most either don't or haven't in a good while.


I'd love to see any shred of evidence that supports that declaration.

Nightwalker
02-02-2007, 16:32
I'd love to see any shred of evidence that supports that declaration.

Just personal experience, fella. I also know that when someone with a dog leaves a shelter area, I've rarely ever heard any complaints because they had a dog with them. Most people seem to just not care--providing that they weren't messed with.

Evidence? Same as most could offered here; my personal experience, which will be believed by some and not by others.

Johnny Swank
02-02-2007, 16:41
So basically, nothing.

I agree that most hikers are ambivalent as long as dogs are kept on a leash, out of shelters, not barking during the night, not begging for food, etc. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception rather than the norm in many cases.

Nightwalker
02-02-2007, 17:04
So basically, nothing.

I agree that most hikers are ambivalent as long as dogs are kept on a leash, out of shelters, not barking during the night, not begging for food, etc. Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception rather than the norm in many cases.

Got any evidence for that? :D

Try not to get too upset about this thing. We all have opinions, based on perception, experience, prejudice, and occasionally even a fact or two. I'm just giving my opinion--in this case due to perception, experience, and perhaps that prejudice thang.

As to whether there are more anti-dog hiking folks on this site than there are in the "real" world, your thru didn't give you the chance to see a true example of that. You had to be getting to the next town before you ran out of food and getting to Katahdin before money or time ran out. That's only a generalization, but it's true of a great many. Hopefully you're still hiking, but that's your business. I hike a lot; I see a lot; unfortunately, I talk and post a lot. However, I try to know the difference between true and false, something that isn't always easy.

Now: I'm done with this argument. It isn't worth the bandwidth or aggravation. You and I could argue all day and neither of us would likely change the other's mind. Given that (probable) fact, what's the use?

Peace,
Frank/Nightwalker

Johnny Swank
02-02-2007, 17:13
Word - Sorry that post came off pissy. I had section-hike for 10 years prior to my thru, so my opinion was based as much off that that anything. Didn't see many dogs on my SOBO hike, not many people for that matter.

I'm not for or against dogs, but I am against ignorant dog-owners. The initial poster was asking some basic questions, given some well-considered answers from many people that had hiked thousands more miles with/without dogs, and then blew them off as not be important. That's a silly way to go about things, IMO.

Nightwalker
02-02-2007, 17:19
Word - Sorry that post came off pissy. I had section-hike for 10 years prior to my thru, so my opinion was based as much off that that anything. Didn't see many dogs on my SOBO hike, not many people for that matter.

Thanks. I hope to see you out there sometime. I'll be the grinning, grey-haired roundy.

Mags
02-02-2007, 17:22
Yep, I'm going to keep on posting this link. :)

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm

And an article by thru-hiking vet:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/fido.pdf

Some common sense stuff that every person who hikes with a dog should read. Also tell you exactly where a leash is needed, here Fido is not allowed, etc.

trlhiker
02-04-2007, 11:11
One thing that has not been hit on here is wet and cold weather. Is your dog ok being wet and cold for days on end. My dogs hate being wet which is why I only take them on camping trips and not backpacking. Dogs can get hypothermia especially warm weather and short hair dogs. What will you do if you notice your dog shivering? I personnaly would not take any of mine.

4eyedbuzzard
02-04-2007, 11:45
Just curious, but, I am assuming we all can agree the only reason a dog goes on a thru-hike is by the decision of its master. Left to their own druthers, dogs do not generally engage in long mileage hikes. They tend more toward shorter periods of exertion followed by rest. Nor do I believe they feel the need for escape from the drugery of civilization, the need to commune with wilderness, reflective self-examination, or the myriad of other reasons humans find necessitate a thru-hike.

I'm not saying hiking with a dog is inherently bad, just that it isn't for the pleasure of the dog - but for that of its master.

Fannypack
02-04-2007, 12:02
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif should I take my dog???

NO! Leave your dog at home!

galaleemc
02-21-2007, 13:37
I just got a phone call from a hiker that was here yesterday with his dog. She has injured herself somehow...I don't know all the details yet. We are going to Addis Gap to pick them up and he is driving her home around a 10 hour drive.

Two days before that another hiker AGONIZED over the decision to send his dog home due to the cold affecting him.

I heard from Neels Gap they saw around three of four....so far this year....and now two are out.

Just passing along information

Jim Adams
02-21-2007, 13:50
no!!!!!!!!!

Ronin
02-21-2007, 14:48
I'm not saying hiking with a dog is inherently bad, just that it isn't for the pleasure of the dog - but for that of its master.

Perfectly said 4EB! Although, as an alternative, people could hire a dog psychic and find out what the dog's thoughts are! :)