View Full Version : Hiking Puzzler from Car Talk
This one was from Saturday's show, so you can't google up the answer. Not easily, anyway.
But surely there someone here who can figure this out on his or her own, right?
Here it is:
NEW PUZZLER: A Hike Unlike Any Other
We were plannning to hike from Point A to Point C via Point B. The trail marker told us that it was 8 hours from A to C. At Point B, the marker told us that it was 3 hours back to Point A and 3 hours to Point C. How could this be?
I love Car Talk but never get the puzzles. It's a triangle of some sorts?
Here is the long version:
RAY: A guy named Bruce Douglas sent this puzzler in just a couple of weeks ago. I had to reobfuscate, but not a whole lot. He writes,
"My wife and I like to go hiking and several years ago, like another of your listeners, Dinesh, we spent lots of time in Death Valley trying to kill ourselves. Then two years ago we hiked in the Florida Everglades and my wife's brother came along on that trip. He wasn't too good at staying on the trails or heeding the various warning signs about alligators and such and that would explain why we now call him 'Lefty.'
'But last year, we went hiking someplace where the trails are marked in time and not distance. For example if we wanted to go from two points that were 12 miles from Point A to Point B then the sign would read perhaps 4.5 hours instead of 12 miles.
"On this particular day, we were planning to hike from Point A to Point C via Point B, where we would stop for lunch. At the outset the trail markers told us that it was 8 hours from A to C.
"At Point B where we stopped for lunch, we had our lunch and got ready to get back on the trail. The markers told us that it was 3 hours back to Point A and 3 hours to Point C. These signs proved to be completely accurate. How could this be?' Think you know? Drop Ray a note (http://www.cartalk.com/email/email.html)!
Skidsteer
12-18-2006, 20:24
Two different trails?
Point A to C trail travels a less straight line than Point A to B to C trail?
IOW they took a blue blaze shortcut?
TJ aka Teej
12-18-2006, 20:25
Point B was uphill from point A. A and C are both downhill from B.
Point B was uphill from point A. A and C are both downhill from B.
Same solution I got, but point C could be up, down, level or a combination from point B. Note that it could take hours more than eight to travel from point C to point A via point B; or it could be only a bit more than 5.
Edit: Can't really make a statement about how long the return from C to A would take. Doh!
Dang, TJ. That was too obvious. :D
Depends on the steepness, sometimes I'm faster uphill...
Kerosene
12-18-2006, 21:25
Depends on the terrain for me...I'm much faster on a smooth, steeply ascending trail than I am on a slippery rock descent.
Hikerhead
12-18-2006, 22:19
I'm faster than most normal people so everyone's wrong...6 hrs from A to C and 2 hrs from either B to A or B to C. So there. :)
I love Car Talk but never get the puzzles. It's a triangle of some sorts?
The A-C path goes over some big hill. :) The trail sign said hours, not miles. For once, I got that one right away.
copythat
12-18-2006, 22:41
This one was from Saturday's show, so you can't google up the answer. Not easily, anyway.
But surely there someone here who can figure this out on his or her own, right?
Here it is:
there's a golf cart rental place at point b.
Toolshed
12-19-2006, 00:17
I took it immediately to mean that perhpas the trail crosses a time zone somehow....B is in the other time zone and the trail bends and A & C are in the same time Zone. So if it is 8AM in TZ1 and you hike for 3 hours and cross a time zone and lose an hour you get there at noon in TZ1, but really 11 AM in TZ2. Then you take a 1 hour lunch and hike to point C and it takes 3 hours to get there from TZ2 - You leave at noon TZ2 time and get to point C at 3PM in TZ2 time and 2PM in TZ1 time.
That's the best I can do....... maybe it's not right [.....sigh....]
Point B was uphill from point A. A and C are both downhill from B.
It's the flatlander thing. Most humans think in two dimensions. AT hikers should know better!
Years ago I was flying in a small plane with a friend as the pilot. We were flying low along a river valley, somewhere near Newburyport MA. There were steep, high hills on either side, and we were flying well below the hilltops. So I see where the river's going to make a really sharp right turn up ahead... and I'm wondering how our plane was going to follow the river 'round that turn. The pilot showed no concern, nor did he make any motion to begin the turn.
Instead, at the last possible moment, he pulled hard on the stick and the plane climbed up along the side of the hill, leaving the river behind and below. For a couple of seconds there, I thought I was a dead man. My friend the pilot was toying with me. :o
Brrrb Oregon
12-19-2006, 03:49
The A-C path goes over some big hill. :) The trail sign said hours, not miles. For once, I got that one right away.
Who on earth puts hours on a sign to indicate mileage? It's not that I don't believe you, but that has to be the weirdest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Even with the "hours" instead of "miles", the trail that leads from A only to C and not through B could easily be a longer but more scenic route.
"Longer and more scenic" might work also. I don't know about the trail signs in this story -- I didn't invent the puzzle or make the signs. ;) I know that the old AMC trail guides always had estimated hiking times for all trails.. and presumably these estimates took into account difficulty as well as distance.
For all I know, this is the story of Pond Mountain. :) ;)
Who on earth puts hours on a sign to indicate mileage? It's not that I don't believe you, but that has to be the weirdest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Who provides hiking distance signs in hours? The Europeans do. And it's a wonderful system. And yes, the signs from the base town up to the top of a mountain will say "5 hours" to the summit. When you're standing on the summit, the signs will say "3 hours to __fill in your starting town__". It makes planning your hiking in the alps very easy.
Who provides hiking distance signs in hours? The Europeans do. And it's a wonderful system. And yes, the signs from the base town up to the top of a mountain will say "5 hours" to the summit. When you're standing on the summit, the signs will say "3 hours to __fill in your starting town__". It makes planning your hiking in the alps very easy.
And let's not forget, the Europeans have been hiking for a long, long time. They know how to do it in style. ;) The Coastal Path in southwest England is a real treat. No need for anything much more than a rucksack. If you can't make it to the next pub, you're seriously slackin'.
ARambler
12-19-2006, 11:49
Who provides hiking distance signs in hours? The Europeans do. And it's a wonderful system. And yes, the signs from the base town up to the top of a mountain will say "5 hours" to the summit. When you're standing on the summit, the signs will say "3 hours to __fill in your starting town__". It makes planning your hiking in the alps very easy.
And let's not forget, the Europeans have been hiking for a long, long time. They know how to do it in style. ;) The Coastal Path in southwest England is a real treat. No need for anything much more than a rucksack. If you can't make it to the next pub, you're seriously slackin'.
I've also seen hrs posted in the US, but not sure they adjust for down hill. While I came up with the hill idea right away, I was beaten to the punch, so I offer:
1) As implied above, the trail is perfectly flat, but there is a bar at either end.
2) This is normal '80's signage. Back then trail clubs were more worried about keeping permission from private owners than measuring the mileage to the nearest mile. So, middle sign, B is old (maintainers went to the bar before replacing it) and does not take into account the new 6 mile road walk between A and B. (Alternative Option B: Sign is new, but sign maker had too much beer and made a typo.)
3a) Point B is a bar that is not on the normal path from A to C or
3b) There is a short cut from A to B (which has a bar); A MANDATORY blue blaze. How many would see Saunders Shelter or Mt Madison if there were Ice Cream AND Beer at Taylor Valley and Pinkham Notch?
4) Every winter I drink more than one beer. So, maybe these are spring signs, that assume after 5 hr I have worked off my beer gut and can now make it from B to A or C in 3 hr.
Rambler
Edited due to deviation from stated intent of forum
max patch
12-19-2006, 12:02
There are several correct answers.
My fav...there are 2 ways to get from A to C. You can take the scenic, meandering, white blazed trail from point A to point C. OR, you can take the boring road walk from point A to point B which leads you to a major intersection. At that intersection you hang a left and hike from point B to point C. Its ugly...its boring...but its SHORTER!!!
There are several correct answers.
My fav...there are 2 ways to get from A to C. You can take the scenic, meandering, white blazed trail from point A to point C. OR, you can take the boring road walk from point A to point B which leads you to a major intersection. At that intersection you hang a left and hike from point B to point C. Its ugly...its boring...but its SHORTER!!!
You can take the idyllic, beautiful Virginia Creeper trail out of Damascus, with its rushing waters and trestle bridges and swimming holes, or you can take the high, dry ridge outta town and see... more roots and rocks and trees. Your choice. :D.
orangebug
12-19-2006, 12:16
I suspect the answer will be multiple paths between A, B, and C. Much like an hour's walk from Testnatee Gap to HogPen Gap by the AT, but only 30 minutes or so by roadwalk.
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max patch
12-19-2006, 14:23
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max patch
12-19-2006, 14:35
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orangebug
12-19-2006, 17:06
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max patch
12-19-2006, 17:20
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max patch
12-19-2006, 17:26
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orangebug
12-19-2006, 17:40
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Rain Man
12-19-2006, 18:10
I was on their Car Talk web site posting the correct answer within about 60 seconds of hearing the Puzzler. I'll let y'all know what I win! LOL
Rain:sunMan
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Brrrb Oregon
12-19-2006, 18:20
Who provides hiking distance signs in hours? The Europeans do. And it's a wonderful system. And yes, the signs from the base town up to the top of a mountain will say "5 hours" to the summit. When you're standing on the summit, the signs will say "3 hours to __fill in your starting town__". It makes planning your hiking in the alps very easy.
Well, since when you're talking hills a mile is not a mile is not a mile, I suppose the time alternative has its advantages. But how do they calculate the times? My mother's family is Swiss....I'm sure it is all laid out in black and white somewhere, as logical as one could want it.
Whatever you say about the Swiss, "weird" is not the first adjective that leaps to mind, at any rate.
max patch
12-19-2006, 18:24
I'm sure it is all laid out in black and white somewhere, as logical as one could want it.
1/2 hour for each mile plus 1/2 hour for each 1,000 feet of ascent.
ARambler
12-19-2006, 18:26
Edited due to deviation from stated intent of forum
max patch
12-19-2006, 18:27
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