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partinj
12-21-2006, 15:52
just want to wish everone a MERRY XMAS
see you on the trail :D

Paul Bunyan
12-21-2006, 18:19
Hey, Merry Christmas partinj. And Merry Christmas to everyone else here in WB

leeki pole
12-21-2006, 18:26
Ditto! Merry Christmas, all my fellow hikers! :sun May the season be merry and bright!

weary
12-23-2006, 17:08
Ditto! Merry Christmas, all my fellow hikers! :sun May the season be merry and bright!
There's an interesting article on the oped pages of the New York Times today by a biblical scholar on the origins of Christmas. Here's and excerpt:

"From the very beginning Christians have always had a tenuous hold on the holiday. The tradition of celebrating Jesusí birth on the 25th of December was invented in the fourth century in a proselytical move by the Church Fathers that was almost too clever. The pre-Christian winter solstice celebrations of the rebirth of the sun, especially the Roman Saturnalia and Iranian Mithraic festivals, were recast as the Christian doctrine of the re-birth of the Son of God. Like many such syntheses, it is often not clear who was culturally appropriating whom. Certainly, throughout the Middle Ages, Christmas festivities like the 12 days of saturnalian debauchery, the veneration of the holly and mistletoe, and the Feast of Fools were all continuities from pagan Europe."

Weary

weary
12-23-2006, 18:55
There's an interesting article on the oped pages of the New York Times today by a biblical scholar on the origins of Christmas. Here's an excerpt:

"From the very beginning Christians have always had a tenuous hold on the holiday. The tradition of celebrating Jesusí birth on the 25th of December was invented in the fourth century in a proselytical move by the Church Fathers that was almost too clever. The pre-Christian winter solstice celebrations of the rebirth of the sun, especially the Roman Saturnalia and Iranian Mithraic festivals, were recast as the Christian doctrine of the re-birth of the Son of God. Like many such syntheses, it is often not clear who was culturally appropriating whom. Certainly, throughout the Middle Ages, Christmas festivities like the 12 days of saturnalian debauchery, the veneration of the holly and mistletoe, and the Feast of Fools were all continuities from pagan Europe." WearyThough I've paid my dues, for some reason I can't edit the above to provide a name and to clarify the profession of the person quoted.

The name is ORLANDO PATTERSON, who is a sociologist, and not, as far as i know a biblical scholar.

Anyway, here's hoping you had a happy winter solstice, will have a fun 12 days of Christmas and a great new year.

Weary

mweinstone
12-23-2006, 18:58
merry? the guy who had my old girlfriend first was merry. barb introduced me to him and then told me he was her first! he was the butcher. a shoer muscular jewish red haired and fully freckeled nice guy who i allready new.

murry the butcher?! oi!

Jack Tarlin
12-23-2006, 19:22
Weary:

I dunno what kind of scholar Patterson is, either, but let's look at a quote from his Times piece:

"From the beginning, Christians have always had a tenuous hold on the holiday."

Now let's look at what Stephen Nissenbaum had to say in his popular 1996 book, "The Battle for Christmas."

"From the beginning, the Church's hold over Christianity was (and remains still) rather tenuous."

Hmmm. Coincidence? Or is Mr. Patterson doing some Christmas shopping from other people's books?

I'm gonna spend a bit more time with Nissenbaum's book and look for more similarities. This could get interesting.

In any case, Merry Christmas to one and all.

weary
12-23-2006, 19:42
Weary:

I dunno what kind of scholar Patterson is, either, but let's look at a quote from his Times piece:

"From the beginning, Christians have always had a tenuous hold on the holiday."

Now let's look at what Stephen Nissenbaum had to say in his popular 1996 book, "The Battle for Christmas."

"From the beginning, the Church's hold over Christianity was (and remains still) rather tenuous."

Hmmm. Coincidence? Or is Mr. Patterson doing some Christmas shopping from other people's books?

I'm gonna spend a bit more time with Nissenbaum's book and look for more similarities. This could get interesting.

In any case, Merry Christmas to one and all.
Jack I should warn you that I've just finished reading the biography of John Adams in which the author David McCullough, cites and defends rather eloquently the numerous instances where both Adams and his sometimes friend, Thomas Jefferson, borrowed both words and ideas.

I even folded down the corners of pages so I could easily get to these issues if you again raised the issue of plagarism against my literary friends. Henry Thoreau borrowed so extensively from Emerson that Emerson commented once how he was very familiar and supportive of the ideas and words of Henry, "since they are mine!" :)

Well those probably are not his exact words Emerson wrote, but their meaning is pretty close to the original

Weary

littlelaurel59
12-23-2006, 19:53
...And I heard him exclaim ere he flew out of sight,
"Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good hike!"


...or something like that.

rafe
12-23-2006, 20:25
I even folded down the corners of pages so I could easily get to these issues if you again raised the issue of plagarism against my literary friends. Henry Thoreau borrowed so extensively from Emerson that Emerson commented once how he was very familiar and supportive of the ideas and words of Henry, "since they are mine!"

Plagiarize!
Remember why the good lord made your eyes!
So don't shade your eyes, but plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize!
... but be sure, please, to always call it "research"

(Tom Lehrer, "The Great Lobachevsky")