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maxNcathy
12-23-2006, 15:02
Have you ever spent a cold miserable night on the AT? I would like to hear your story if You have.

P.S. This is something I want most to avoid as I hike north March 19th.

Thanks,
Sandalwood

rafe
12-23-2006, 15:20
Have you ever spent a cold miserable night on the AT? I would like to hear your story if You have.

Not so much. Muskrat Creek Shelter. If I'd been smart I would have slept in my tent. You're always warmer in a small (dry) tent. Carry a decent down bag, keep it dry, make sure you have a decent pad under it. You'll be fine.

maxNcathy
12-23-2006, 17:11
Not so much. Muskrat Creek Shelter. If I'd been smart I would have slept in my tent. You're always warmer in a small (dry) tent. Carry a decent down bag, keep it dry, make sure you have a decent pad under it. You'll be fine.

TToo, At Muskrat Creek Shelter did you get wet?What time of year?What bag did you have and what were the temps? Max

stickman
12-23-2006, 17:31
In late October I got quite cold hiking about 16 miles along Iron Mountain, exposed all day to a cold strong wind. I pulled into Iron Mountain shelter an hour or so after dark and couldn't stop shivering. My sleeping bag was marginal for the temperature, and I slept a little cold that night, enough that I woke up a number of times feeling cold. But a couple of the tried and true tricks made the difference between feeling a little cold and feeling really miserable: when I got the shelter I climbed into my bag and cooked up something hot and liquid (even mild dehydration is a big factor in hypothermia), then I boiled a liter of water and brought it into my bag in a Nalgene bottle (make sure it doesn't leak and put the lid on tight!). The bottle really helped keep me warm that night, and in the morning I started the day by drinking a liter of warm water and eating some crackers, cheese, and nuts (again, the dehydration thing and food with high calorie content). As long as you 1)stay dry, 2) can find shelter out of the wind, 3) have something hot you can eat before bed, and 4) recognize early hypothermia before you get too mentally confused to do 1-3, you'll be fine.

Stickman

emerald
12-23-2006, 17:39
With a name like stickman, stickman, maybe what you need is a little meat on your bones!;)

emerald
12-23-2006, 18:15
In a recent thread on what sleeping bag to carry on a northbound thru-hike, I mentioned a bad experience I had. I had a 20 degree F Trailwise bag that was likely the best gear I ever owned and to which I should probably credit my being alive today. The incident I mentioned occurred at Muskrat Creek Shelter.

The next down bag I buy will probably have a collar. My Slimline didn't, but it was a great bag anyway. It weighed 2 lbs. 15 ozs. if I remember correctly and was rated at 20 degrees F. I wouldn't want to attempt a northbound thru-hike before May with a lighter bag.

Those cold rains can be nasty. Sometimes it's better to stay put than hike in them.

Before departing for Georgia, spend a night sleeping in your bag you intend to use on the A.T. under conditions that are as cold as you can reasonably expect to encounter on your thru-hike. You don't want to find out you are not carrying enough bag when you are cold and miles from anywhere.

Spirit Walker
12-23-2006, 18:23
I only remember one really miserable night - in the Smokies in April of 1988. It had snowed a couple of days before, followed by a drop in temperatures. The guys who were trying to build a fire hadn't managed to get much of a flame. Temps were in the 20's when we went to bed at 7:00. The shelter leaked so we used a ground cloth as a tent/tarp over our section but it was still wet. There was plastic up in front of the shelter, on the 'cage', but it was torn so it flapped all night. I couldn't sleep because I was so cold and the shelter was so noisy. I was carrying an emergency blanket - basically very thin aluminum foil - but it didn't help much. I tossed it in Hot Springs. That was the only really bad night on the AT.

On my second thru we had snow leaving Hot Springs, but it wasn't as cold. There were a couple of section hikers though who were totally unprepared. It was warm when they left Atlanta, so they didn't bring any long pants, long underwear or winter sleeping bags. The thruhikers ended up loaning them warm clothes.

Jim got a bad ice storm in Georgia after two really warm days. He had a tent though and a 20 degree bag, so he was fine. Tents are warmer than shelters, usually.

emerald
12-23-2006, 18:34
In addition to my down bag most nights early in my hike I slept in merino wool long underwear, wool socks, down booties, a down vest, wool mittens and a balaclava. I don't sleep at all or not well unless I'm comfortable, especially my feet, which seem to get cold easily. I'm of slight build.

orangebug
12-23-2006, 18:56
I've been in a Smokies blizzard back in 2000 with outside temps well below zero, stayed in the Tricorner Knob shelter with a nice dry Western Mountaineering PUMA bag that I previously thought a waste of money. Slept warm and comfy and enjoyed a couple of zero days until the storm lifted. Only time I was cold was on privy trips.

Closest to a bad night was in a tent Nov 05 just before Thanksgiving with Almost There. We had a wet rainy day and night that turned into freezing rain before it changed to snow. The tent really didn't like the weight of the wet snow, but the same bag kept me reasonably comfortable, even while a bit wet.

Lone Wolf
12-23-2006, 20:45
Have you ever spent a cold miserable night on the AT?

Cold? Yes. Miserable? No.

rafe
12-23-2006, 20:48
TToo, At Muskrat Creek Shelter did you get wet?What time of year?What bag did you have and what were the temps? Max

No, I wasn't wet, just cold. We all were. The shelter was pretty full, and nobody got much sleep. My diary just says, "well below freezing." My bag was some generic three-season down bag, nothing fancy. It was April 11.

Ramble~On
12-23-2006, 20:59
Yes, if you're heading out March 19th chances are that you will as well...part of the experience ? maybe the weather will be kind to you.

1996 there had been a couple mornings in a row where the morning snow would turn to rain and then stop around 11.
But (I guess it was early April) there was a morning that it just wouldn't quit and if the snow did turn to rain it was frigid and nasty. Two of us made it into Cable Gap to find a man and his daughter there...freezing...there were quite a few hikers behind us that were colder and wetter than we were so we hiked on to the Hilton. That was a cold and miserable hike and the wind at the hilton made for a cold and miserable night.

hopefulhiker
12-23-2006, 21:27
Two days out of Hot Springs in the Smokies in April of 2005. Real Cold Snap including substantial snow fall, couldn't see the trail. air mattress flat, had to zero in a shelter..Bad wind chill. Very cold..

Tipi Walter
12-23-2006, 21:30
The Blizzard of '93 hit on March 12-13 which is danged close to March 19. That was a freakish storm though but it'll get cold up on the ridges so expect snow and frigid temps. Winter is the best time to be pumping nylon in my puny opinion as it weeds out the tourists and you never quite know what Papa Nature has planned.

maxNcathy
12-24-2006, 11:18
Has anyone had your tent fail in the night?

rafe
12-24-2006, 11:53
Has anyone had your tent fail in the night?

No. Doesn't happen all that much. You need to choose your tent site with some care, but it's not that hard. Don't camp on high, exposed ridges. If it it looks like it might rain, consider drainage and don't pitch your tent where water is likely to run or to pool. Any decent tent these days, if pitched properly, will keep you dry in *most* foul weather.

Even so, it's smart to get comfortable with any tent before taking it out on a long hike. Set it up in the back yard, make a point of sleeping in it on a rainy, windy night -- some time before you head for Springer or Katahdin.

TurkeyBacon
12-24-2006, 12:10
I look at it this way... The AT is not a walk in the park. Expect it to happen at least once. You will suffer along the AT and being cold at night once or twice is part of the suffering. Mine was a wet night in a overfilled shelter. Not much I could do, I had half a body width of shelter space and was still damp from the hike in and it was real cold.
TB

Marta
12-24-2006, 12:16
Have you ever spent a cold miserable night on the AT?

I'm can guarantee a cold night by getting chilled before I get in my sleeping bag, no matter what its temperature rating is. The best way for me to do this is hang around a campfire talking for a couple of hours. At Rock Gap Shelter a couple of years ago, my feet were still numb in the morning, and I was in a zero degree bag, on a 20 degree night.

I did this to myself a week ago at Standing Bear Farm--hung around the campfire talking with Sprocket, then went to bed chilled and shivered for hours.

I'm a slow learner...:D

Hammock Hanger
12-24-2006, 12:41
May 2001, post Trail Days.

I was one of the few people using a hammock back then and even though I had used a hammock for camping for years, I had never camped in COLD weather.

I had a Go-liter par down my pack for me. Bad idea, some of the items I parted with and some of the concepts I was not yet able to fully embrace. Trying to save some postage I let my husband take a these things home with him from TD's vs mailing later from Pearisburg.

It was a very warm May at TD's, however, by the time I was passed Atkins it was cold and wet. I did not have camp/sleeping clothes, which meant staying wet. I had a 40 degree summer bag and no thermarest.

I put up the hammock not far from a brook about a mile north of Knot Maul Shelter. I laid in my hammock for the first time feeling like I was in a torture chamber. I was frozen and I shook and squirmed for hours as the cold blew around and through me. I finally got up in the wee hours and struck camp, figuring hiking was a better way to warm up and I just couldn't bear to lay there anymore and freeze.

By the time I got to Knot Maul Shelter I was a complete basket case and had a by first big hypothermia breakdown. I was in such an altered state of mind I didn't think I would ever leave that shelter....

At the first possible chance I called home and told my husband to mail me back my stuff, dry long johns and my thermarest. I realized one can not just take things out of their pack until they themselves are prepared to suffer the consequences.

yappy
12-24-2006, 13:11
I think to worry about getting cold is pointless... cuz you are gonna be cold...and sore ..and tired.. and hungry and ( hopefully ) having a fantastic time ...just get the best gear ya can and be smart.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
12-24-2006, 13:23
The only really miserable night I've ever spent on the AT was one where I had to spend the night because of a sudden winter storm near Thunderhead Mountain in late April that made finsihing a day hike impossible. I had a poncho for shelter and enough clothing to keep from freezing to death, but not much else. I built a small fire for warmth / to melt snow for water. Didn't get any sleep and was sooo sore from shivering the next day as I hiked out.

maxNcathy
12-24-2006, 18:45
Is hail a real threat to a tent? Have You ever had or seen a tent damaged? I read about high winds and marble sized hailstones on the AT.

orangebug
12-24-2006, 19:31
I doubt a common threat, as hail is usually an afternoon event associated with thunderstorms and wind. I don't know that you would have much of a chance to pitch a tent in such a storm.

TIDE-HSV
12-24-2006, 22:45
you should be OK at least up to marble size. I've never been in hail on the AT, but 20 years ago, my wife and I were camped at South Fork Lakes in the Wind River Range, our honeymoon, I might add, and a sudden hail storm blew up and the Eureka Apine Meadows tent held up great. As luck would have it, I'd just caught a nice brook trout and I used the hail to ice it down. When you're lying on your stomach looking out at it hailing, it looks like popcorn. You don't see it fall, because of the speed, I guess. But, you see the bounce, hence the popcorn illusion. That same tent succumbed, though, several years later. to willy-waws (sudden downbursts of wind off the ridges - it is, after all, the Wind River Range). The winds bent three of the four poles. We had extras for a little cooking vestibule, so I was able to jam those in the sleeves and reinforce the bent ones. We had to back away from the lakes and into the woods and build windbreaks. We'd already had to do that for a friend, whose tent was almost blown away. That was the year of the Yellowstone fires and the Fayette fire was right over the CD from us to the west, and that probably had something to do with the wind bursts...

Tipi Walter
12-25-2006, 01:10
I had a tree fall on my tent at Marys Rock in the Shenandoah(just left it to do some yoga - praise Buddha), I spent all night in my tent puking in Grayson Highlands, I had to do an emergency evac when a creek flooded its bank and I was under water, had a tent pole break in Slickrock and a high wind whipped my tent against me and slapped me silly on Bob Bald(bent the tent pole), had a Svea stove blow up on me as I was trying to impress a young woman hiker with gear-handling, had a bald-faced hornet crawl into my tent and into my goatee on the AT outside of Hot Springs at 2am and sting my chin(ow!!), had a skunk lick my pot clean and stick his head in the tent afterwards(we exchanged greetings), took a dump on my own bootlaces, got lost in a Pisgah gorge and tried to bushwack down to the river and got stranded on a cliff face with a full pack on my back(my worst experience).

BUT I was never struck by lightning, never chewed by a black bear, never rattlesnake bit though one got very pissed, only just nearly copperhead bit, never actually crushed by a tree, never caught in a forest fire and all my hitchhiking turned out GREAT. See you in THE WOODS!

The Scribe
12-25-2006, 08:03
I think to worry about getting cold is pointless... cuz you are gonna be cold...and sore ..and tired.. and hungry and ( hopefully ) having a fantastic time ...just get the best gear ya can and be smart.

Sure we can and will all get cold, it's the exceptions I think this thread is about. Exceptions that can be serious trouble.

Labor Day weekend 2004 on a section hike between Caratunk and Monson in Maine. Beautiful weekend. Perfect hiking weather. Ended the day at Bald Mountain Brook shelter. Sat and talked with others there, set up camp, ate dinner.

Immediately after eating, I started shivering soo bad. Couldn't stop it. Drank something hot. Put on all the close I had. Ended up going to bed like at 7 and finally warming up in the bag.

As someone mentioned in the thread, dehydration can contribute to it too and I am sure that is what was up with me.

atraildreamer
12-25-2006, 08:57
You gotta dress for the mountains and let that natural insulation grow!::D

Hammock Hanger
12-25-2006, 09:51
I had a tree fall on my tent at Marys Rock in the Shenandoah(just left it to do some yoga - praise Buddha), I spent all night in my tent puking in Grayson Highlands, I had to do an emergency evac when a creek flooded its bank and I was under water, had a tent pole break in Slickrock and a high wind whipped my tent against me and slapped me silly on Bob Bald(bent the tent pole), had a Svea stove blow up on me as I was trying to impress a young woman hiker with gear-handling, had a bald-faced hornet crawl into my tent and into my goatee on the AT outside of Hot Springs at 2am and sting my chin(ow!!), had a skunk lick my pot clean and stick his head in the tent afterwards(we exchanged greetings), took a dump on my own bootlaces, got lost in a Pisgah gorge and tried to bushwack down to the river and got stranded on a cliff face with a full pack on my back(my worst experience).

BUT I was never struck by lightning, never chewed by a black bear, never rattlesnake bit though one got very pissed, only just nearly copperhead bit, never actually crushed by a tree, never caught in a forest fire and all my hitchhiking turned out GREAT. See you in THE WOODS!

Well, I will make sure I do not hike with you, as you are a magnet for stuff and rirpe and overdue for being: struck by lightning, never chewed by a black bear, never rattlesnake bit though one got very pissed, only just nearly copperhead bit, never actually crushed by a tree, never caught in a forest fire ....

WILLIAM HAYES
12-25-2006, 11:55
I have spent two very cold nights on the AT- Once three years ago at Woods Hole Shelter South of Blood MT. Cold rain with temps dropping I had a layer of ice on my rain gear when I got to the shelter I never got fully warmed up even in my 15 degree marmot Down bag. The second time was in the smokies during march two years ago at Derrick knob- one college hiker had hypothermia and was air lifted out the next morning -he was wearing cotton-we had heavy snow and deep drifts -up to your waist if you got of the ridgeline. I stayed warm with most of my clothing on in my sleeping bag. Just be prepared and know when to hunker down.

Hillbilly:sun

Tipi Walter
12-25-2006, 15:38
I nursed a sick wild raccoon for 3 days on a snow covered ridge and helped it pass over, once took a rest on a steep trail and drank a Knudsen ginger ale when a yellow jacket fell into it and got in my mouth and stung my inner lip(ow!!), jammed a crab apple thorn spike thru my trailrunners and could barely walk, had a puppy dog chew my tent apart, got caught in the blizzard of '93 in a canvas tipi and in the snow induced chaos knocked over a full pee bucket onto the floor, had an incense stick burn completely thru a thermarest while camping at Shining Rock(Sam's Knob), tried to convince many women to forsake syphilization and live outdoors with only limited success(the worst experience of all).

Yet more? I caught a stray hunting dog pulling down my food bag in the Nantahala forest(he ate well), caught a raccoon in Pisgah opening my food bag and dragging everything down to the creek(paw prints in the half eaten cheese), saw a dayglo crawdad in Ripshin creek when I fell trying to climb the worst manway in Pisgah, had to do a 30 mile yellow blaze to Hot Springs on Hiway 209 cuz there was no traffic to hitch, bit a big garden slug in half when moving gear at night in a rainstorm(don't ask), slept in a cemetary behind a big tombstone and scared the crap out of 3 pot smokers when I rose up out of my mummy bag to say hello, woke up too fast in a rainstorm and jumped to put the fly on the tent and passed out(came to wet).

But Momma Nature has been good to me in the 28 years of living out, she can't wait for me to join her for a January trip to the high ground to be one of the frozen chosen in the freezin' season. She's the wild woman of the wind.

rafe
12-25-2006, 15:45
But Momma Nature has been good to me in the 28 years of living out, she can't wait for me to join her for a January trip to the high ground to be one of the frozen chosen in the freezin' season. She's the wild woman of the wind.


Always a treat reading these screeds, Tipi, always a new phrase or thought worth stashing into the memory banks. Thanks!

hikerjohnd
12-25-2006, 15:48
Has anyone had your tent fail in the night?

Oh yea - before I carried a beefier front stake, my tent (Europa 05) fell over the night I spent just south of Unaka Mtn. There were storms and lightning and all sorts of other fun things. Whenthings calmed down outside, I set it back up and at the next stop I bought a bigger stake for the front.

Tipi Walter
12-26-2006, 10:47
Always a treat reading these screeds, Tipi, always a new phrase or thought worth stashing into the memory banks. Thanks!

Always a treat reading these screeds: I like the sound of that. You are more than welcome to stash this stuff in your memory banks, in fact, once I figure out a way to clean and purge MY cluttered cerebral memory banks(this is where Whiteblaze comes in), I will travel with a lighter pack. Maybe have room for an extra book or two.

Ridge Rat
12-26-2006, 14:14
You need to choose your tent site with some care, but it's not that hard. Don't camp on high, exposed ridges. If it it looks like it might rain, consider drainage and don't pitch your tent where water is likely to run or to pool. Any decent tent these days, if pitched properly, will keep you dry in *most* foul weather.

When I first started backpacking alone in college I used to live for sleeping on exposed ridgelines for the view... thus the name. Problem was, I would give up a good nights sleep from being completely frozen for a great scenery when I awoke. Had a group of Section hikers that I was half following up the trail doing the same section dub me ridge rat because of my choice of campsites and me bitching about being cold all night. I have since learned my lesson, but the name stuck.

maxNcathy
12-27-2006, 08:58
Thanks for your stories.If I can't sleep I won't feel like hiking.

rafe
12-27-2006, 09:14
Thanks for your stories.If I can't sleep I won't feel like hiking.

It takes some people years to learn that. Take what you need, do what you need to do, to get a good night's sleep on the trail.

Carry a good tent, learn to select campsites that will keep you out of the worst of the weather. If a shelter is crowded or noisy, skip it and use your tent. If it's windy or cold, chances are you'll be more comfortable in a tent, anyway. With a bit of care and luck (back to good tent-site selection) you'll have softer ground underneath you as well.

Last thought... maybe a bit more controversial. An ibuprofen or two before bed time will take the edge off those aches and pains and help you get a good night's rest. Works for me ;).

mrc237
12-27-2006, 09:22
You're from Ontario - you should be giving us advice! :)

Tipi Walter
12-27-2006, 10:33
It takes some people years to learn that. Take what you need, do what you need to do, to get a good night's sleep on the trail.

Carry a good tent, learn to select campsites that will keep you out of the worst of the weather. If a shelter is crowded or noisy, skip it and use your tent. If it's windy or cold, chances are you'll be more comfortable in a tent, anyway. With a bit of care and luck (back to good tent-site selection) you'll have softer ground underneath you as well.

Last thought... maybe a bit more controversial. An ibuprofen or two before bed time will take the edge off those aches and pains and help you get a good night's rest. Works for me ;).

Praise all tents both big and small and praise the backpacks that carry them!

There is a funny thing that happens on a backpacking trip, I haven't put a name to it yet but one will come to me. It is this: No matter how rough a day I've had and no matter how many miles I've walked and no matter if I feel like quitting, on the next day and on the next morning all is forgotten and I am ready to hit the trail with renewed enthusiasm. This is like some kind of Backpacker's Law or something.

maxNcathy
12-27-2006, 11:32
You're from Ontario - you should be giving us advice! :)

Robert, I have spent a night or two cold due to poor equipment.This fall I built a "spruce tipi" in the yard and sleep out there a couple times a week testing new sleeping bags rated for 20F and 10F and 0F along with different pieces of bed clothing to figure out what my body requires for a cozy night's sleep.
I am thinking the 10F bag with a light down sweater/jacket would be a wise thing to do for me.My 0F bag weighs 3 lbs 8oz so I may take a lighter bag.

Sandalwood/Max

Tipi Walter
12-27-2006, 19:10
Robert, I have spent a night or two cold due to poor equipment.This fall I built a "spruce tipi" in the yard and sleep out there a couple times a week testing new sleeping bags rated for 20F and 10F and 0F along with different pieces of bed clothing to figure out what my body requires for a cozy night's sleep.
I am thinking the 10F bag with a light down sweater/jacket would be a wise thing to do for me.My 0F bag weighs 3 lbs 8oz so I may take a lighter bag.

Sandalwood/Max

Your quote brings back memories of my early backpacking years which can be described with one word: EXPERIMENTATION. Of course, I lived in the mountains of North Carolina which had some tough winters(not like Canada!) and so I tried everything to stay light and to stay warm. I went thru the whole wad of down vs synthetic, inflatable pad vs ensolite, tarp vs tent, single pole tipi style tent vs 4 season double wall, ultralite bedroll pack vs huge externals, etc.

Oh, and one last insult of mishap and mayhem I forgot to mention(squeamish readers turn away): Snowed in for 5 days in a blizzard and with an angry turtlehead poking out, I had to birth a vicious colon lizard inside the tent and store it for later burial. I've heard of Alaskan guys doing this in their cabins and tossing the whole bundle into a woodstove and I've done it many times in the tipi in the winter but never before in a tent on a backpacking trip. Sometimes the whole idea of going out in the snowy cold wind and digging a hole can be too much.

ed bell
12-27-2006, 19:18
Funny stuff, as always, an entertaining and enlightening post, Tipi. You definitly have some stories, thanks for sharing.(Although that last one was not for the squeemish):D

Booley
12-27-2006, 19:20
Snowed in for 5 days in a blizzard and with an angry turtlehead poking out, I had to birth a vicious colon lizard inside the tent and store it for later burial.


LOL!!! That's ****in' hilarous!!!

maxNcathy
12-28-2006, 09:41
I doubt a common threat, as hail is usually an afternoon event associated with thunderstorms and wind. I don't know that you would have much of a chance to pitch a tent in such a storm.

Orangebug,

That news is SOMEwhat comforting...hail and high winds USUALLY occur in the afternoon.But perhaps tents can withstand withstand severe wind and hail so it's not an issue.

Sandalwood

orangebug
12-28-2006, 09:49
On the way home from camping last night, Almost There told me a story of camping in his Hubba and a group of other hikers when a powerful storm system blew through. Even the three people huddled in a single Big Agnes single person tent got through the storm without damage.

maxNcathy
12-28-2006, 10:55
On the way home from camping last night, Almost There told me a story of camping in his Hubba and a group of other hikers when a powerful storm system blew through. Even the three people huddled in a single Big Agnes single person tent got through the storm without damage.

Thanks for sharing that.
We are lucky to have such good lightweight strong fabrics nowadays.

Sandalwood

maxNcathy
12-28-2006, 15:58
Have you ever spent a cold miserable night on the AT? I would like to hear your story if You have.

Thanks,
Sandalwood

I love to read about other people suffering. Hahahah

Tipi Walter
12-28-2006, 16:32
I love to read about other people suffering. Hahahah

I thought about describing my several bouts with severe toothaches while out backpacking and then I thought about some guy who cut his arm off with a cheap dull knife in a slot canyon and I bit my lower lip and logged off.

Give me a few minutes and I'll forget about him and log back on to describe a mean flock of butterflies that swarmed me at a swimhole along Slickrock Creek.

maxNcathy
12-31-2006, 16:25
Hey, Tipi,

Do you still sleepin a tipi when you hike? What are the pros and cons of it?

PS I think I ate in a cafe in your town while roaring through there on a motorcycle tour...it was dark brown inside with the till on your left as you enter and the waitress was gruff as I recall...booths on right wall and tables in the center...good enough food though.

Tipi Walter
12-31-2006, 19:55
Hey, Tipi,

Do you still sleepin a tipi when you hike? What are the pros and cons of it?

PS I think I ate in a cafe in your town while roaring through there on a motorcycle tour...it was dark brown inside with the till on your left as you enter and the waitress was gruff as I recall...booths on right wall and tables in the center...good enough food though.

Yeah, I've been to that place in Tellico, called the Town Square Cafe. We used to go and get pizzas there, two for the price of one.

When I go out backpacking the semi-permanent canvas and tarp tipi is replaced with my next favorite home: A Hilleberg green dome tent called the Staika, a suitable sanctuary from the wind and rain and snow. I call it my mobile nylon tipi and except for a woodstove it has everything I need to survive. Any tent though becomes such a sanctuary and I've been through several.

Except for the hike to the place and carrying in gear, Tipi living is not a part of backpacking since the lodge itself and the poles are just too heavy for foot travel. Of course there are tipi-shaped tents out there(Kifaru, Chouinard used to make a couple, etc) but they are not to be confused with the old Lakota and Cheyenne style lodges. With a woodstove and stovepipe and with various types of lanterns(Aladdin comes to mind), living in a tipi especially in the winter is (in my stone age opinion) one of the best ways to live.

Jim Adams
01-01-2007, 11:38
Started March 25,1990 and March 17,2002. I hit snow on Tray Mt. both trips. I was cold only one night in 1990 with a 20* bag. Learned an easier way to stay comfortable in 2002. You can find good equipment on sale both new and used for very low prices if you look. Start your hike with a 0* down as light as you can afford. Switch to a 32*down or synthetic, again as light as you can afford, in Damascus. Switch to a 50* in Maryland.
When you get to Mass. start to reverse the process with switches to 32* and then to 0* at Glen Cliff. You should never be cold the entire trip. If you have your family sending these (along with less or more cloths), do yourself a favor and before you leave on your trip have them in boxes A, B, and C. All that you have to request is box B (or A,C) be sent and you do not have to rely on your family to figure out which bag is which or what top is lt wt., mid wt., micro fleece etc. When you send the box back home, relable it yourself as to A,B orC.

geek

maxNcathy
01-01-2007, 13:22
geek[/quote]

Started March 25,1990 and March 17,2002. I hit snow on Tray Mt. both trips. I was cold only one night in 1990 with a 20* bag. Learned an easier way to stay comfortable in 2002. You can find good equipment on sale both new and used for very low prices if you look. Start your hike with a 0* down as light as you can afford. Switch to a 32*down or synthetic, again as light as you can afford, in Damascus. Switch to a 50* in Maryland.
When you get to Mass. start to reverse the process with switches to 32* and then to 0* at Glen Cliff. You should never be cold the entire trip. If you have your family sending these (along with less or more cloths), do yourself a favor and before you leave on your trip have them in boxes A, B, and C. All that you have to request is box B (or A,C) be sent and you do not have to rely on your family to figure out which bag is which or what top is lt wt., mid wt., micro fleece etc. When you send the box back home, relable it yourself as to A,B orC.

Thank You, Jim. I have been looking for good quality light 0F sleeping bags. Do You have an opinion on which bags are good for the first month starting in about March 15th?
Do You think a full length zipper is highly recommended?

Sandalwood

geek

maxNcathy
01-01-2007, 13:23
Thank You, Jim. I have been looking for good quality light 0F sleeping bags. Do You have an opinion on which bags are good for the first month starting in about March 15th?
Do You think a full length zipper is highly recommended?

Sandalwood

sleeveless
01-01-2007, 14:56
This thread was entertaining. Tipi your stories are priceless as somebody else already mentioned you seem to be a magnet for disaster but could that be because you have hiked and backpacked way more miles than the rest of us? MaxNcathy, I would use a full zip because sometimes you are also to warm and this allows you to cool your feet but still keep your body covered. I also traded my 3/4 length thermarest for a full length. One of the best gear decisions I made. I should have done it before Harper's Ferry. My cold story was in the Smokies. We hiked into Icewater Spring shelter April 12 in the rain but the next day was much worse. There was the distant rumble of thunder and the hail followed the cold cold rain. When we arrived at Tricorner Knob shelter we were wet and cold. There were several of us in the shelter and we strung up lines to try and dry our clothes to no avail. Buffalo Bob and Thunder made me a cup of hot tea. It warmed the body and the cup warmed the hands. It was a blessing. I don't know if I would have warmed up enough otherwise to crawl out of my sleeping bag and fix supper and I sure needed those calories right then. In the morning the icy pouring rain had turned to snow. I tried to warm and dry my shorts and shirt over my alcohol stove while I boiled water. It really didn't work but it did make it a little easier putting those wet cold clothes back on. The nice thing about synthetics is that they dry quickly with hiking body heat.

maxNcathy
01-03-2007, 14:43
Hi Sleeveless, I am enjoying reading your journal.would you tell me what sleeping bag yoiu used the first month and how it did in keeping you warm and toasty. Thanks, Max

Sandalwood

cutman11
01-04-2007, 03:02
2 coldest nights on the AT : Overmountain shelter and Thomas Knob shelter. Both due not to the temp, but to the WIND. I have a much greater respect for windchill. about froze my butt off both places. Overmountain has beautiful views, but if you sleep ''upstairs" you get amazing drafts thru virtually every board gap on the walls and floor.

Tipi Walter
01-04-2007, 10:54
2 coldest nights on the AT : Overmountain shelter and Thomas Knob shelter. Both due not to the temp, but to the WIND. I have a much greater respect for windchill. about froze my butt off both places. Overmountain has beautiful views, but if you sleep ''upstairs" you get amazing drafts thru virtually every board gap on the walls and floor.

Coldest nights? Hmmm . . . Back in January of '82 I was camping without a tent in -10 degrees and someone told me I'd be warmer sleeping NAKED so I tried it during the trip. It's hard to describe standing up buck naked at 3 in the morning at minus 10 degrees for a pee break. Later in that same cold trip I set up a tarp in a sudden blizzard and for two days woke up COMPLETELY smothered in wind blown snow. My danged tent was with North Face being repaired and they took 10 weeks to get it back to me(#@#&*!!).

esmithz
01-04-2007, 19:54
I never spent a cold miserable night on the AT because of 2 reasons. Kept my sleeping bag dry always and had something dry to change into on cold rany days.

I used a 30deg polyfill bag with liner. I carried it in 2 garbage bags to make sure it NEVER got wet.

maxNcathy
01-08-2007, 09:34
A few years ago near Breckenbridge CO my wife and tented while on a cross-country mcycle trip. It was summer and we had a summer sleeping bags but that night we were COLD all night.
Since then I have bought high powered down bags in which I often wake up too warm and have to vent.
It's not that easy to get things, "just right" but I am learning.

maxNcathy
01-14-2007, 10:58
Last night Cathy and I slept outside in our spruce teepee. It was 22F and I wanted to test the sleeping bag I plan to take with me hiking on the AT in mid March. The bag is a Moonstone 800 PCT rated for 10F.

I put a light down vest inside at the foot of the bag and my feet stayed toasty all night.(something new to me)
I had on #2 Patagonia capilene long underwear bottoms and a thick fleece shirt thinking,"if I get the shivers tonight then I will take another warmer sleeping bag on my AT hike".
I awoke in an hour or so and was very wet from sweat.I hate that!Each time I awoke I was a little cooler and by 5 AM I was just right for warmth, wide awke, and ready to get up and hit the trail. NOt really.
The bag passed the test and it should keep me warm in temperatures down to about 10F or maybe lower.

oldfivetango
01-14-2007, 14:45
I had a tree fall on my tent at Marys Rock in the Shenandoah(just left it to do some yoga - praise Buddha), I spent all night in my tent puking in Grayson Highlands, I had to do an emergency evac when a creek flooded its bank and I was under water, had a tent pole break in Slickrock and a high wind whipped my tent against me and slapped me silly on Bob Bald(bent the tent pole), had a Svea stove blow up on me as I was trying to impress a young woman hiker with gear-handling, had a bald-faced hornet crawl into my tent and into my goatee on the AT outside of Hot Springs at 2am and sting my chin(ow!!), had a skunk lick my pot clean and stick his head in the tent afterwards(we exchanged greetings), took a dump on my own bootlaces, got lost in a Pisgah gorge and tried to bushwack down to the river and got stranded on a cliff face with a full pack on my back(my worst experience).

BUT I was never struck by lightning, never chewed by a black bear, never rattlesnake bit though one got very pissed, only just nearly copperhead bit, never actually crushed by a tree, never caught in a forest fire and all my hitchhiking turned out GREAT. See you in THE WOODS!

I would like to hear more about your SVEA stove blowing up.I didn't
think it was possible for them to do that.Did it explode or what exactly?
I really loved mine but for going solo I had to change over to alcohol.
I'm a Brasslite Kid now and believe in the zip loc bag to cook without
making a mess.
Cheers,
OFT

Tipi Walter
01-14-2007, 23:13
I would like to hear more about your SVEA stove blowing up.I didn't
think it was possible for them to do that.Did it explode or what exactly?
I really loved mine but for going solo I had to change over to alcohol.
I'm a Brasslite Kid now and believe in the zip loc bag to cook without
making a mess.
Cheers,
OFT

During priming either a side seam or the pop-off valve gave way and shot a long stream of flaming gas into my face which burned off some facial hairs and threw me backwards to the ground. I quickly scooped up handfuls of dirt and smothered the beast and was thankful my tent got away without melting. Tinkering with a brass stove is not always possible so when I took it to a local outfitter they chucked it into the trash and GAVE ME a new burner tank portion while I supplied the outside sleeve. There is a little pressure release valve on the tank but it blew out more around the base of the burner stem although my eyeballs and brain can't quite recall such details.