PDA

View Full Version : A retort to Minnesota Smith



Speer Carrier
01-02-2007, 19:20
Since "the thread" is about dead, I thought I'd start to a new thread to offer a retort to the notion that MS was offering a while back when he said the trail is not being adequately maintained.

In my current copy of "Blowdown" an online newsletter for trail overseers who belong to the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club, these statistics were offered:

I 2006, the number of hours spent in trail maintenance by all maintaining clubs was 190,017 volunteer hours.

The Maine Club led the list with 25,021 hours, The Potomac Club was second with 19,019, and I'm proud to say, Georgia was third with 17,225.

MS may know a lot about a lot of things, but on the subject of volunteer hours maintaining the AT he is way off.

Skidsteer
01-02-2007, 19:43
Speer Carrier, you should copy this to The Thread to insure a response from MS.

Reports of The Thread's demise are greatly exaggerated.

jlb2012
01-02-2007, 19:58
In my current copy of "Blowdown" an online newsletter for trail overseers who belong to the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club, ...

Is this newsletter ONLY available to GATC overseers? If not is there a link to old/current copies?

Jack Tarlin
01-02-2007, 20:05
In my experience, the people who complain the most about Trail conditions and maintenance tend to be people who haven't done much, if any.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-02-2007, 20:08
Gasp - Jack and I have agreed on something.
::: off to iron the fabric of the universe :::

Mother Nature
01-02-2007, 20:20
Is this newsletter ONLY available to GATC overseers? If not is there a link to old/current copies?

The Blowdown is distributed in .pdf format. I can forward my Overseers copy to you if you want to send me a PM.

Mother Nature

Topcat
01-02-2007, 21:02
What a great name for your newsletter. It always amazes me that somethign like the AT can be maintained by a completely volunteer workforce.

TJ aka Teej
01-02-2007, 22:53
I met Minnesota Smith at Katahdin, and it took only a few moments for him to start complaining about the condition of the trail and the maintainers. Later on I had a campfire a-going and Dogwood from New Jersey stopped by for a while, telling Possum and I about the great time he had thru-hiking and his plans to bring other people out onto the AT and to join one of the local-to-him maintaining crews. Nice guy, that Dogwood was.

The Solemates
01-03-2007, 00:15
MS may know a lot about a lot of things, but on the subject of volunteer hours maintaining the AT he is way off.

actually, go back and read his threads. his responses show that he knows very little about a whole lot of things.

magic_game03
01-03-2007, 01:28
actually, go back and read THEIR (the Solemates) threads. Their responses show that they know very little about a whole lot of things.

minnesotasmith
01-03-2007, 03:08
In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old. (I knew perfectly well before I set foot on the AT what old paint looks like.) I did not even once see anyone doing any brush clearing/cutting north of the Shenandoah (and only about 3 times total in the South). I did see sections in which there was multiyear-length foliage across the trail. I saw countless collapsing/collapsed (from rotting) wooden waterbars, trail washed out on the side of hills to under 12" width, trail suffering soil creep to severe downslope slanting, deep gullies misnamed a trail through which water flowed days after the last rain, multi-mile lengths of trackless boulder fields, repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail, multiple sections of over a mile without a single blaze, stream bridges that had been washed out years ago with no replacement, major (like 2-3' diameter trees) blowdowns across the trail that appeared in a number of cases to be decades old, trail with no gravel (that it desperately needed) apparently added since graveled at the time of construction prior to my birth (I'm in my 40s) so frequent as to be routine, critical missing bog bridge boards (not just rotting, but MISSING altogether), you name it. Then, there's PA and Maine (hint: a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trail)...

This does not describe a trail that either was ever complete (if only for a moment) or is conceivably trending towards becoming so. I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths.

RAT
01-03-2007, 03:11
"Dont complain, maintain" is my motto. I am proud to be part of the CMC and consider its 94 miles to be some of the best maintained on the entire trail. I hope MS has not been complaining about my section between Little Bald and Spivey Gap or I would have to :datz lol

RAT

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-03-2007, 06:55
Having done trail maintenance, I don't complain. Maintainers have real lives that involve real spouses, children, elderly parents, career commitments, etc.

For those who want to complain - said the female dino as she got her pointy little teeth in place - Quit your b!tching and pick up a bow saw and some trash bags. Once you've actually done trail work, you will never see undone trail work in the same way again.

woodsy
01-03-2007, 07:42
In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old. (I knew perfectly well before I set foot on the AT what old paint looks like.) I did not even once see anyone doing any brush clearing/cutting north of the Shenandoah (and only about 3 times total in the South). I did see sections in which there was multiyear-length foliage across the trail. I saw countless collapsing/collapsed (from rotting) wooden waterbars, trail washed out on the side of hills to under 12" width, trail suffering soil creep to severe downslope slanting, deep gullies misnamed a trail through which water flowed days after the last rain, multi-mile lengths of trackless boulder fields, repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail, multiple sections of over a mile without a single blaze, stream bridges that had been washed out years ago with no replacement, major (like 2-3' diameter trees) blowdowns across the trail that appeared in a number of cases to be decades old, trail with no gravel (that it desperately needed) apparently added since graveled at the time of construction prior to my birth (I'm in my 40s) so frequent as to be routine, critical missing bog bridge boards (not just rotting, but MISSING altogether), you name it. Then, there's PA and Maine (hint: a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trail)...

This does not describe a trail that either was ever complete (if only for a moment) or is conceivably trending towards becoming so. I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths.

Well if that doesn't tell you something about the ungrateful whino critic, nothing he says will:rolleyes:

Teatime
01-03-2007, 07:44
Hmm, I was only out on the trail once last year, for just a 4 day section hike and I saw trail maintainers working. Additionally, part of the section had been recently located and a beautiful job it was too! Did I mention the new Mountaineer Falls Shelter? I bet if trail maintenance was stopped even for 1 year, the trail would almost dissapear in some sections.

rickb
01-03-2007, 07:47
a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trailRock Face?

More like a bit of bouldering. Part of what makes the AT fun for so many. Nowhere along the summer trail is it at all technical.

The suggestion that ropes would be appropriate for any parts of the AT (as made in the other thread) for any healthy able-bodied individual is not at all consistant with my reality.

YMMV.

The Old Fhart
01-03-2007, 08:11
MS-"I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths."It appears the only comforting lies are coming from you and you are the one denying the truths. Any scientist worth their salt would be willing to accept hard evidence on a question, and a mountain of well-documented evidence on trail maintenance has been presented by many on WhiteBlaze. Also, almost everyone else has seen volunteers painting blazes, building bridges, shelters, the list goes on and on. There are also many here who have actually done trail maintenance as well. Since I first set foot on the trail I have seen countless volunteers maintaining the trail, and when I have seen them I take the time to thank them for the hard (and in your case, thankless) job they do.

I’m beginning to doubt that you ever set foot on the A.T. because what you continually describe is so out of touch with reality. But then again, maybe you’re just a troll seeking attention!;)

shades of blue
01-03-2007, 08:30
MS....I've seen ample evidence of maintainers on the trail. I saw at least 6 groups in the GA-VA and can think of 3 or 4 from WV-ME. There were several new relocated trails, including two where the ground was still fresh from being upturned and leveled out. I agree that there are quite often blowdowns, but that also may depend on what time you're out there. If you hike through an area after a recent storm, you might see the blowdown before a maintainer gets to the area. There are older sections of the trail, but I would also think that money would dictate where and how much you spend.

I am greatful to all trail maintainers and the hard work that they do. Thank-you.

Old Hillwalker
01-03-2007, 08:36
Looks like Bill Irwin wasn't the only blind person who has hiked the trail.

rafe
01-03-2007, 08:39
I've seen lots of trail maintainers on the AT. But none of the ones I saw were painting blazes. If and when I retire, I'd hope to put in some time on trail maintenance.

Gray Blazer
01-03-2007, 08:41
"Dont complain, maintain" is my motto. I am proud to be part of the CMC and consider its 94 miles to be some of the best maintained on the entire trail. I hope MS has not been complaining about my section between Little Bald and Spivey Gap or I would have to :datz lol

RATOn behalf of MS could you level that section out and take out some of those roots?:D Actually on behalf of the hermit of Little Bald shelter.....Thankyou.

woodsy
01-03-2007, 08:41
Sounds like a well deserved blanket party is brewing.....ye-haw!

MOWGLI
01-03-2007, 08:45
WIll someone please send MS some cheese & crackers to enjoy with his whine.

mrc237
01-03-2007, 08:49
The reason why he took 9 months to hike the trail. Poor maintenance! Come on! NICE ONE --- Hillwalker!

Heater
01-03-2007, 08:57
WIll someone please send MS some cheese & crackers to enjoy with his whine.

:)

Dial whine-one-one! Someone needs a whaaaaaaaaaaambulance! :D

mrc237
01-03-2007, 09:10
Just shows to go ya "No good deed goes uncritized".

fvital
01-03-2007, 09:55
actually, go back and read his threads. his responses show that he knows very little about a whole lot of things.

I guess that's why he fits in so well here.:banana

D'Artagnan
01-03-2007, 10:16
Reminds me of that line Jack Nicholson's character has in "A Few Good Men". Something like, "Until you pick up a rifle and stand a post..."

I must just be lucky, because the sections of the AT I've done have been very well maintained -- at least to my humble standards. On more than one occasion, I've encountered volunteers chopping weeds and brush or removing blowdowns. I am very grateful for their work and even the times when I've come across areas that haven't been recently cleared, I take solace in knowing that they will eventually get to that area. To those here that are volunteer maintainers: THANK YOU!

TOW
01-03-2007, 10:35
Yesterday I heard a story that when MS hiked into the Kincorra he had told Bob Peoples that the section Bob maintains was horrible and went to pointing out what needed to be fixed. Bob didn't say a thing I guess, he just nodded his head and let it go. Of course MS did not know that Bob maintained that section.

micromega
01-03-2007, 11:02
I recently did a sobo section hike through CT, and at the Riga shelter register I came across an entry from mid-November, apparently by Minnesota Smith (I say apparently because it was signed as such, but I'm leaving wiggle room to account for the fact that anybody could have written it). This entry was basically a list of things that, in his opinion, needed to be done on trail maintenance in the area. I spent some time thinking about it, on and off, throughout my hike.

Two things about that entry bothered me, one being a suggestion that ridge runners carry bags of gravel up the trail to put down in muddy sections, and the other a closing comment which amounted to saying 'I've hiked 2100 miles, I know what I'm talking about'. At first, I thought that closing comment was a case of elitism, and as for the gravel, why not just pave the trail and be done with it?

On further reflection, I found myself thinking of the difference of opinion and need for trail maintenance (and design for that matter) between day hikers and thru hikers. What I thrive on as a day hiker (blowdowns, 75 degree rock faces, hard to follow blazes, and mud), I find challenging under a full pack as a section hiker. And no doubt would find to be a migraine inducing tedium as a thru hiker. So where do you draw the line?

For myself, the line falls firmly on the side of day hikers. I see no reason a day hiker should, in essence, find a 'watered down' trail, just to benefit thru hikers. And thru hikers should have a firm grasp on the realities of the trail before starting.

I found the trail maintenance in CT to be fairly good, aside from a noticeable disparity between nobo and sobo blazing in some areas that had me wondering about conspiracies against sobo hikers. Nothing like a good conspiracy theory to get your mind off aching feet.

D'Artagnan
01-03-2007, 11:18
... Bob didn't say a thing I guess, he just nodded his head and let it go...

Though I've only met him once, and then only briefly, that sounds like Bob. He is a true gentleman and his wife is a true lady, too. Just good people and perhaps some of the best friends the AT has ever had, in my humble opinion.

rafe
01-03-2007, 11:37
I recently did a sobo section hike through CT, and at the Riga shelter register I came across an entry from mid-November, apparently by Minnesota Smith .....

Two things about that entry bothered me, one being a suggestion that ridge runners carry bags of gravel up the trail to put down in muddy sections, and the other a closing comment which amounted to saying 'I've hiked 2100 miles, I know what I'm talking about'.

If it was a straight-thru hike, and if that register entry was from a shelter in Connecticut, then the person writing that register entry hadn't come close to hiking 2100 miles at that point.

Lone Wolf
01-03-2007, 11:50
it was a flip-flop. he finished in ct.

Fannypack
01-03-2007, 13:11
I’m beginning to doubt that you ever set foot on the A.T. because what you continually describe is so out of touch with reality. But then again, maybe you’re just a troll seeking attention!;)

OF, I think u hit the troll (i mean nail) on the head.

Obviously he loves attention and we d@mn sure give it to him. So to everyone, PLEASE before responding to a MS ("troll") post pls consider the source and move on.

LW, sorry I couldn't stop after one sentence. Enjoy the SoRuck (http://www.whiteblaze.net/soruck/).

RITBlake
01-03-2007, 13:55
In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old. (I knew perfectly well before I set foot on the AT what old paint looks like.) I did not even once see anyone doing any brush clearing/cutting north of the Shenandoah (and only about 3 times total in the South). In

In a word,

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

MOWGLI
01-03-2007, 14:21
I think all the paintbrushes, loppers, and chainsaws stopped working because of issues associated with Y2K. :rolleyes:

mrc237
01-03-2007, 17:33
No, no, no, MO it was El Nino. :)

Sly
01-03-2007, 17:44
If the maintainers stopped for just a year MyopicSmith and others never would have made it out of Georgia. He's totally ignorant to what it takes to keep the AT hike-able. Complaining about faded blazes and mud? Comparing a thru-hiker to a soldier! Please...

Mags
01-03-2007, 17:46
I'd hate to so see Smitty hike the western trails. :)

TJ aka Teej
01-03-2007, 18:06
I'd hate to so see Smitty hike the western trails.

Did they manage to deploy leaf-raking crews before the first CDT blizzard hit, Mags? Man, don't you hate it when there's "repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail"? :D

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-03-2007, 18:08
The AT is much better maintained and marked than about 90 to 95% of the trails we have hiked. In Smitty's defense, he has never said he had much hiking experience prior to hiking the AT so he may honestly not realize just how well maintained it is relative to other trails.

Mags
01-03-2007, 18:11
Did they manage to deploy leaf-raking crews before the first CDT blizzard hit, Mags? Man, don't you hate it when there's "repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail"? :D

I was very upset that the snowblowers were not out in the San Juans! ;)

Singe03
01-03-2007, 18:14
In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old. (I knew perfectly well before I set foot on the AT what old paint looks like.) I did not even once see anyone doing any brush clearing/cutting north of the Shenandoah (and only about 3 times total in the South). I did see sections in which there was multiyear-length foliage across the trail. I saw countless collapsing/collapsed (from rotting) wooden waterbars, trail washed out on the side of hills to under 12" width, trail suffering soil creep to severe downslope slanting, deep gullies misnamed a trail through which water flowed days after the last rain, multi-mile lengths of trackless boulder fields, repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail, multiple sections of over a mile without a single blaze, stream bridges that had been washed out years ago with no replacement, major (like 2-3' diameter trees) blowdowns across the trail that appeared in a number of cases to be decades old, trail with no gravel (that it desperately needed) apparently added since graveled at the time of construction prior to my birth (I'm in my 40s) so frequent as to be routine, critical missing bog bridge boards (not just rotting, but MISSING altogether), you name it. Then, there's PA and Maine (hint: a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trail)...

This does not describe a trail that either was ever complete (if only for a moment) or is conceivably trending towards becoming so. I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths.

Bleh, its a hiking trail not an interstate (though as hiking trails go, it is close). You complain about unraked leaves in the middle of the woods? Makes me wonder why I ever thought folks were going too hard on you.

Sly
01-03-2007, 18:17
Bleh, its a hiking trail not an interstate (though as hiking trails go, it is close). You complain about unraked leaves in the middle of the woods? Makes me wonder why I ever thought folks were going too hard on you.

"unraked leaves" I missed that complaint. good grief.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-03-2007, 18:20
Smitty's complaint about unraked leaves is in post 11 of this thread

woodsy
01-03-2007, 18:24
Yup, must have been his first trip off the sidewalk ever , and he claims to be in his 40's, sad. Maintainers! Man your rakes! Prepare to rake miles of leaves! LOL

MOWGLI
01-03-2007, 18:24
Can we get a work crew together for the weekend? I'll bring the rakes. Who is bringing the coffee & donuts? ;)

RITBlake
01-03-2007, 18:27
Haha.... a mile without seeing a single blaze.........on what trail? Maybe those coke bottles fogged up and you couldn't see clearly.

weary
01-03-2007, 18:29
In Maine the rule calls for maintainers is to check their section by Memorial Day and to complete any work needed before the first flush of hikers come through in June, which might explain why MS didn't see any in this state.

Some maintainers are more diligent than others. But once I did my chore for the season, I rarely went back a second time. (It was a 300 mile round trip, including 15 miles of 20 mph roads and a final five miles on roads where I couldn't drive must faster than walking speed, followed by several miles of walking on an abandoned road. I typically spent 10 hours just getting to and from my trail section.

When I took over the section on the south side of Whitecap it looked like the ingrowth hadn't been clipped since I helped brush out the relocated trail a decade earlier. It took me several years to clear the accumulated growth. And on my last trip before giving up the section I remember thinking, "the new guy will have some neglected clipping to do."

I'm continually amazed at the dedication of trail maintainers, but I can see why thru hikers would from time to time think we are neglectful. Part of the problem is the turnover of maintainers. When I was overseer of 60 miles of the AT in Maine I had plenty of volunteers. But not all really realized the amount of work they were volunteering to do. Some quit after a season or two of sometimes minimal effort.

Each year I would plan on walking those 60 miles to see first hand who were the good maintainers and who weren't. But other things tended to interfere and I relyed mostly on information from hikers.

Thru hikers should report less than ideal trail conditions to the 33 clubs that are responsible for most of the Appalachian Trail maintenance, while at the same time recognizing that maintainers are unpaid volunteers with a life that includes things other than trails.

Weary

Sly
01-03-2007, 18:32
A mile without seeing a blaze isn't a problem. Seeing 4 in row without taking a step is.

Oh no, I'm in Smitty's boat! :datz

copythat
01-03-2007, 18:34
In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old.

this is gonna be my eagle scout service project. next year. i think. (am i too old to be ann eagle? or just too ornery?) :rolleyes:

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/sign075.htm

mweinstone
01-03-2007, 18:34
do users of the trail contribute to the maintainers need to understand trail needs? do reports of all kinds help? does reporting trail conditions and suggested needs by an amature do no good when the assesment is worthless? do 1st graders homework assignments teach children who compleete the work unsatisfactoraly? can a beginner fail is really what im asking. and if they fail, does it teach how to fail or how not ? the premis of this thread is incorrect. let me set the record straight.

anyone who is remotly interested in the trail is a good thing. anyone who even in an overlycritical way, attempts, and fails, to report and suggest trail issues, is a good thing. anyone at all who pisses off the entire hiking comunity with wrong ideas is a good thing. heres why. because that person has two out of the three things you need to be hikertrash. loves the trail. wants to help. now. this last one should read, is learning how. im not sure ms is or isnt, but its our job to teach, not preach.

now, side issue, is froliking dino really lone wolf in a really well made hollywood suit? cause they both cut you to your honest core the same. in a good cutting way. kinda like cosmetic surgery cutting. well maby not.
shes way funneyer. hes way drunker.witch is way funnyer .

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-03-2007, 18:35
A mile without seeing a blaze isn't a problem. Seeing 4 in row without taking a step is.

Oh no, I'm in Smitty's boat! :datzBite Sly on toes to bring him back to reality :D

The Old Fhart
01-03-2007, 18:43
mweinstone-"anyone at all who pisses off the entire hiking comunity with wrong ideas is a good thing."If this is true, then MS truly is God!:rolleyes:

mweinstone-"do 1st graders homework assignments teach children who compleete the work unsatisfactoraly?"But MyopicSmith knew far less when he "graduated" than when he waddled in on his first day. Maybe Will Rogers was talking about MS when he said: "He was born ignorant and he's been going downhill ever since.” :D

RITBlake
01-03-2007, 18:44
A mile without seeing a blaze isn't a problem. Seeing 4 in row without taking a step is.

Oh no, I'm in Smitty's boat! :datz

It's not a problem at all, it's just not possible.

mweinstone
01-03-2007, 18:44
o crap! i just said lone wolf likes to dress up like girls. actually i refering to girl dinosaurs witch is okay for a guy to dress up as cause they have terrible nashing teeth way sharper than the males. so ,.. when guys do dress up as them,... they look ,.....coool, by!

Mags
01-03-2007, 18:46
As a side note, I think any dedicated long distance hiker should try to get in some trail work (or habitat restoration work, trash clean-up, etc.) at least one weekend a year. Preferably more.

If you can't work on the AT, there are always projects to be done around where you live. Clean up a local park, do some trail work on a local trail, re-veg a closed down trail that is being rehabbed, and so on. In my neck of the woods, there is everything from CDT/Colorado Trail crews to Volunteers for Outdoor Colorao to local groups who spend a day picking up trash on popular local trail or even planting native species of plants. I suspect other areas are the same, even if it is "just" a local park or a bike trail.

Maybe it is Catholic guilt (I've used the resources, gotta give back! ;) ), but I think it is a good thing to give back directly.

I try to get in the equivalent of one week a year (7 days) for some kind of "trail" work. Always more to do, though! Imagine if every hiker (or trailrunner, mountain biker, climber, etc.) gave one weekend a year to some kind of environmental project?

>Off my soap box<

mweinstone
01-03-2007, 18:51
yes he did make the comments both as an ameture and a pro.. all the more reason hes not suspect and crazy. hes sticking to his guns. its just a case of trigger happy. he shoots at every miss blazed blaze. so what? ever bring a new guy on a job? they learn or they dont. give ms time. he dosnt see the work as a whole cause he thaught too much of a few trail needs. now he has new facts. after recalculating the data provided, im guessing we may see the emergence of a kinder gentler ms. all he needs to do is put in some time at hillwalkers boot camp. carrying 500 lb logs and i mean the new load hillwalker. not that sissy load we did before. like,....fifty logs. hillwalker you have your orders direct from general smith. cut more logs and ask ms to help when you have fifty.

rafe
01-03-2007, 18:53
At the risk of appearing to "support" MS... and with my sincere gratitude to the thousands of volunteers who do maintain the trail... well, Weary says it pretty well. Inconsistent blazing happens. And if you're hiking off-season it's not hard to find overgrown sections. Saw a bit of that in PA last September.

When I was picking my way through some of those PA boulder-patches, it occured to me... the only thing here that made this a "trail" was the occasional blaze painted on a rock. I'm not complaining... but just kinda scratchin' my head at the "logic" of it... :-? Maybe it's wrong to expect logic here. At some points and in some places, it's a fine line between a trail and a bushwhack. MS isn't the first thru-hiker to observe that.

bigmac_in
01-03-2007, 18:53
Come on people - the AT is a footpath, a scenic trail if you prefer, but it is not meant to be a walk in the park. There are sidewalks in parks for that. I have NOT thru-hiked the trail, nor have thousands of others that have day-hiked or section hiked on it. Personally, I like it just the way it is. And a great big well deserved thank you to all the maintainers up and down the trail.

Whew, I feel better.......:-)

TOW
01-03-2007, 18:55
If this is true, then MS truly is God!:rolleyes:
:D
Is that who I've been praying to all along?:-?

rafe
01-03-2007, 18:57
Is that who I've been praying to all along?:-?

Does it matter who or what you pray to? ;)

mweinstone
01-03-2007, 19:00
mags? shoulders suck. dont should folks. you should this, you should that. how bout this? should a hiker be free to never do a stitch of trailwork ? and is that hiker still free to mouth off about conditions? i say yes. you may be anything the law allows. its funny when people do this. we laugh at it all the time on tv and in movies. yeah we hate the guy who complains and dosnt work. but then they get tired of being hated or the hateing lets up long enough to allow a timmid entry into the world of social behaviors witch in the case of us knuckle heads involves brutal horrible trailwork neverending and all with blunt broken tools and private money and hearts of steal. right down to our old folks this community has hearts of cold forged steal.ms is steal. hes just young. he will bring balance to the force master mices.

stumpy
01-03-2007, 19:03
"Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old."

Ahh....... But you could still see them! Why would someone waste precious time painting the trees, when all of those leaves are on the trail?

MS did realize that he would be walking a trail in the woods, right?

I have never done more than a three day section in GA/NC/TN, and have seen several trail maintainers working. It would be imposable for the trail to be kept obstruction free and painted like new. If that is the experience you(in general) are looking for, maybe you should take a trip to Disney World where everything is kept in tip, top condition.

Personally, that is what draws me to the woods. Things are not just so, and I have to pay attention to my surroundings. It is natural, or as natural as a well used trail can be!

Sly
01-03-2007, 19:16
shoulders suck.

Yeah, but without them it would be hard to carry a backpack. :rolleyes:

A lot of people should do alot of things. I know of one that should use spell check. Get the Google toolbar, it comes with one. :p

Jack Tarlin
01-03-2007, 19:27
I just read this whole thread, including M.Smith's remarkable post about what he witnessed while hiking last year.

First of, I'm frankly amazed that he evidently encountered so few folks doing maintenance or working on the Trail. I've never done a long hike on the A.T. WITHOUT encountering maintainers hard at work.

I also find it telling that while he had lots of qualms with the condition of the Trail in certain areas (or even MOST areas) I still see no indication that he stopped and did anything about it, i.e., I'd be very curious to know how much maintenance work he did while out on the Trail for the better part of a year. I make it a practice to do some every year, tho admittedly not as much as I should. Whenever I encounter maintainers at work, I always stop to say hello, thank them profusely for what they're doing, compliment them on the Trail (especially stuff that they obviously just worked on) and what's more, I always ask them if they need a hand with anything. They usually say no----these folks take great pride in their work and really enjoy doing stuff themselves----but every now and then, they're delighted to have an extra set of hands to move some rock, roll a tree off the Trail, whatever. But I always enjoy helping them out, even if my contribution to the day's work is miniscule.

Another interesting thing: I've had many maintainers tell me that most thru-hikers don't stop at all, many say absolutely nothing as they go by, very few even bother to say "Thank you." And NOBODY offers to help; I've lost track of how many maintainers have told me "In (blank) years of doing this, you're the first hiker that's ever offered to drop their pack and give us a hand."

This is shameful, and so are Smith's complaints.

I said it earlier and I'll say it again: In my experience the only folks who bitch about Trail conditions and maintenance are the folks who haven't done any.

This work is done by volunteers, people. These folks could be doing something else....lolling at the beach, on the golf course, spending time with their families, working on a project at home. Hell, they could be out hiking. But instead, they're out there in their free time busting their balls for the Trail and the folks who hike it. They ask nothing in return, but at the very least, they should be granted respect.

If you can't say something good to or about a Trail maintainer or their work, then for Chrissakes have the dignity to say nothing. The Trail would cease to exist in short order without the volunteers and maintainers and for someone to complete a nine-month vacation in a National Park whose care and continued existence was provided for free by others, and to then complain about it's condition.....well this is pretty obscene.

Sorry, Smitty, I can't stand by you on this one.

Got a beef with how certain sections were maintained? Then do one of two things: Send that local club a check or other contribution, or better yet, JOIN that local club and get your ass out there and do some Trail work.

Failing that, have the grace to say nothing. I can think of few things more disgraceful than criticizing the work of Trail volunteers repeatedly without having spent some time in their boots.

Enough said.

Mags
01-03-2007, 19:44
shoulders suck.

My are somewhat broad..good for carrying packs! I like 'em!
:)


we hate the guy who complains and dosnt work.



Hate 'eh? Naaah....just don't care for people who kvetch and don't do anything about it.

My Dad (he of broader shoulders than mine. Suspect he likes his shoulders as well.) would whomp me silly if I bitched and moaned and did not do anything.


Anyway...you realize we are talking about the merits of someone complaing about a hiking trail not being raked??!?!

I'm off to do a full moon ski in a little over an hour. There better be glow sticks to mark the entire way to Lost Lake! :D

Mags
01-03-2007, 19:44
shoulders suck.

My are somewhat broad..good for carrying packs! I like 'em!
:)


we hate the guy who complains and dosnt work.



Hate 'eh? Naaah....just don't care for people who kvetch and don't do anything about it.

My Dad (he of broader shoulders than mine. Suspect he likes his shoulders as well.) would whomp me silly if I bitched and moaned and did not do anything.


Anyway...you realize we are talking about the merits of someone complaining about a hiking trail not being raked??!?!

I'm off to do a full moon ski in a little over an hour. There better be glow sticks to mark the entire way to Lost Lake! :D

Old Hillwalker
01-03-2007, 19:50
yes he did make the comments both as an ameture and a pro.. all the more reason hes not suspect and crazy. hes sticking to his guns. its just a case of trigger happy. he shoots at every miss blazed blaze. so what? ever bring a new guy on a job? they learn or they dont. give ms time. he dosnt see the work as a whole cause he thaught too much of a few trail needs. now he has new facts. after recalculating the data provided, im guessing we may see the emergence of a kinder gentler ms. all he needs to do is put in some time at hillwalkers boot camp. carrying 500 lb logs and i mean the new load hillwalker. not that sissy load we did before. like,....fifty logs. hillwalker you have your orders direct from general smith. cut more logs and ask ms to help when you have fifty.

Hey matthew, I now have eight big puncheon logs ready to drag in as soon as the snow gits deeper. But the big one is still lying down by Rte 25 right beside the trail ready to split. It was a recent live Spruce windfall that measures 30 inches in diameter. Once split, that sucka ought to weigh 1000 lbs per 15 foot section. Gonna need rock gear to move that little sweetie into place. Maybe we can get the "man" to be the crosspiece for one end. Just slap a little preservative on him and he should last ten years. Everyone could salute him as they walk over:D Or maybe jist lake a teak. :eek:

Old Hillwalker
01-03-2007, 19:54
Yeah, but without them it would be hard to carry a backpack. :rolleyes:

A lot of people should do alot of things. I know of one that should use spell check. Get the Google toolbar, it comes with one. :p

Hey, leave my buddy matthewski alone. He is currently speaking PAbonics. Dere r'nt eny speling misteaks dat eye kin sea.

NICKTHEGREEK
01-03-2007, 20:17
In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old. (I knew perfectly well before I set foot on the AT what old paint looks like.) I did not even once see anyone doing any brush clearing/cutting north of the Shenandoah (and only about 3 times total in the South). I did see sections in which there was multiyear-length foliage across the trail. I saw countless collapsing/collapsed (from rotting) wooden waterbars, trail washed out on the side of hills to under 12" width, trail suffering soil creep to severe downslope slanting, deep gullies misnamed a trail through which water flowed days after the last rain, multi-mile lengths of trackless boulder fields, repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail, multiple sections of over a mile without a single blaze, stream bridges that had been washed out years ago with no replacement, major (like 2-3' diameter trees) blowdowns across the trail that appeared in a number of cases to be decades old, trail with no gravel (that it desperately needed) apparently added since graveled at the time of construction prior to my birth (I'm in my 40s) so frequent as to be routine, critical missing bog bridge boards (not just rotting, but MISSING altogether), you name it. Then, there's PA and Maine (hint: a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trail)...

This does not describe a trail that either was ever complete (if only for a moment) or is conceivably trending towards becoming so. I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths.

So how many times during your 9 months on the trail did you carry a bucket of paint and a brush to touch up the faded blazes you noted with such a highly trained eye?

max patch
01-03-2007, 20:17
At some points and in some places, it's a fine line between a trail and a bushwhack.

Look up the defintion of hyperbole in the dictionary and you'll get the above sentence.

ed bell
01-03-2007, 20:22
Picture a couple of trail maintainers wearing backpack blowers.:D

rafe
01-03-2007, 20:31
Look up the defintion of hyperbole in the dictionary and you'll get the above sentence.

So where's the trail in this photo (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/cpg143/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=36)? ;)

RAT
01-03-2007, 20:31
On behalf of MS could you level that section out and take out some of those roots?:D Actually on behalf of the hermit of Little Bald shelter.....Thankyou.

I will do my "level" best :) lol There is no shelter on Little Bald, that would be Big Bald ;-)

I knew I was raking those leaves off my section for someone ! I painted some blazes on my section last time I was out. Going soon to clean out water bars, anyone local wanna go help ? We will carry cheese and crackers in case we run into MS :D


RAT

ed bell
01-03-2007, 20:34
So where's the trail in this photo (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/cpg143/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=36)? ;)Looks like the maintainers forgot to bring the gas powered weed trimmer along. :rolleyes:

Mags
01-03-2007, 20:34
So where's the trail in this photo (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/cpg143/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=36)? ;)

That's a well definined trail. Really. The blaze is right in front of you and the tread is worn.

Try finding the trail in this mess:
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=36&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=14475


There's a trail in there somewhere and with CDT markers no less!

I'd be hopping, skipping, jumping and yelling in joy on the AT in terms of easy to follow tread! :)

Really..there's not too much to complain about in terms of markings on the AT!

rafe
01-03-2007, 20:39
Really..there's not too much to complain about in terms of markings on the AT!


Old pharts can always find something to complain about, Mags. You're a spring chicken. ;)

saimyoji
01-03-2007, 20:40
That's a well definined trail. Really. The blaze is right in front of you and the tread is worn.

Try finding the trail in this mess:
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=36&g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=14475


There's a trail in there somewhere and with CDT markers no less!

I'd be hopping, skipping, jumping and yelling in joy on the AT in terms of easy to follow tread! :)

Really..there's not too much to complain about in terms of markings on the AT!


Yow, sure. Hint please. :eek:

Sleepy the Arab
01-03-2007, 20:45
Yesterday I heard a story that when MS hiked into the Kincorra he had told Bob Peoples that the section Bob maintains was horrible and went to pointing out what needed to be fixed. Bob didn't say a thing I guess, he just nodded his head and let it go. Of course MS did not know that Bob maintained that section.

I was there. It happened a little differently, and makes for a better story.

Two Speed
01-03-2007, 20:45
I've gotten a little messed up on the AT but anyone who complains about the blazing on the AT has got serious navigational problems, and should consider staying home.

Mags, let me take a guess: is using a map and compass a necessary skill on the CDT?

ed bell
01-03-2007, 20:47
Excellent picture as usual, Mags. Not being 100% sure if I am walking in the right direction kinda heightens the experience and sharpens the skills.:)

rafe
01-03-2007, 20:50
Not being 100% sure if I am walking in the right direction kinda heightens the experience and sharpens the skills.:)


Why not just put a paper bag over your head? :D

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-03-2007, 20:54
Old pharts can always find something to complain about, Mags. You're a spring chicken. ;)Bites terrapin on the .... shell?

saimyoji
01-03-2007, 20:58
terrapins have toes....go for it.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-03-2007, 20:59
Every time I try to bite the terrapin, it goes into its shell....

Lyle
01-03-2007, 21:04
[quote=Mags;296026]As a side note, I think any dedicated long distance hiker should try to get in some trail work (or habitat restoration work, trash clean-up, etc.) at least one weekend a year. Preferably more.

If you can't work on the AT, there are always projects to be done around where you live.]

I agree, physical work is what should be done, but if that is not possible, how many hikers (thru-hikers included) support the ATC or other trail maintaining groups financially through membership.

I was speaking with one of the ATC regional directors last August, and she pointed out that there are over a MILLION hikers who use the trail each year, but only about 30,000 +/- who contribute financially. This is very sad!

ed bell
01-03-2007, 21:16
Why not just put a paper bag over your head? :DBecause there is a fine line between vision and blindness.;)

rafe
01-03-2007, 21:27
I've gotten a little messed up on the AT but anyone who complains about the blazing on the AT has got serious navigational problems, and should consider staying home.


OK, what thru hiker hasn't gone through this routine a hundred times...


Trail emerges from woods onto a road. From that point, it's not at all obvious where the trail re-enters the woods. There's no double-blaze to give a hint, no blaze visible from where you're standing.

So, you pick a direction to walk along the road (let's say, west) expecting to see a blaze in a couple hundred yards or so -- either on the road itself, or in the woods, but presumably visible from the road. No blaze, so you figure you picked wrong, no big deal.

You turn around and walk back, eastbound now, past the point where you stepped out of the woods, looking for that precious blaze. Hmmm. Nothing. You look behind you every few steps to see if there might be a blaze on the opposite side of the tree... just some hint.

So you double back again, and (maybe after a few more cycles of blaze-hunting) you discover the trail really does enter the woods more-or-less across the road from where you emerged, but the trailhead was completely overgrown, and the first blaze on the far section of the trail was not at all visible from the road.

I dunno.... stuff like this used to annoy the hell outta me. Lately, my reaction (much more satisfying) is to shake my fist at the sky, grin and yell, YOU BASTARDS, and move on. I still say it's an easily avoidable annoyance. An extra blaze or two, in places like this, can make a difference.

bigmac_in
01-03-2007, 21:36
So where's the trail in this photo (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/cpg143/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=36)? ;)

It's as plain as day - you're not afraid of a few weeds hitting your legs are you? Again - if you want a sidewalk, go to the park.........

RAT
01-03-2007, 21:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapin_too http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=296101#post296101)
So where's the trail in this photo (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/cpg143/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=36)? ;)

Looks like the maintainers forgot to bring the gas powered weed trimmer along. :rolleyes:


I cant believe anyone would complain of that sections weeds being so bad,, geez, what do you expect ? I have seen much much worse , head high stingweeds and pickers, of course my section would never look like either but the section in that photo is not bad really. You wouldnt hear me complaining about it after some of the much worse condtions I have found on the AT. I have a $500 Stihl weedeater that I have used on the trail for yrs.

RAT

Sly
01-03-2007, 21:45
I was there. It happened a little differently, and makes for a better story.

... what's the story?

rafe
01-03-2007, 21:56
I cant believe anyone would complain of that sections weeds being so bad,, geez, what do you expect ? I have seen much much worse...


Yeah, me too. That was just a photo I had close at hand. It's not my habit to "document" the dubious sections with photos. I wasn't really complaining, but there is this notion of a footpath -- which, in this instance, was about to disappear.

copythat
01-03-2007, 22:03
missing a blaze or two and losing the trail and wandering the wilderness for days on end until your sar team arrives is one thing ... :eek:

... but my BIGGEST gripe is with those areas where the trail crosses wetlands. once, i had a choice of bushwacking or ... stepping in MUD! i'm STILL trying to clean it off my cole-hahns. :mad:

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-03-2007, 22:03
I have the solution... since MN Smith is accoustomed to carrying large amounts, he can carry a gas powered weed-eater and a gallon bucket of paint from GA to ME. We can all chip in and buy the gas & cord for the weed-eater and extra paint & brushes for the blazes. Oh, he gets dibs on any and all shelters while doing this.

ed bell
01-03-2007, 22:29
So where's the trail in this photo (http://www.terrapinphoto.com/cpg143/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=36)? ;)


Looks like the maintainers forgot to bring the gas powered weed trimmer along. :rolleyes:


I cant believe anyone would complain of that sections weeds being so bad,, geez, what do you expect ? I have seen much much worse , head high stingweeds and pickers, of course my section would never look like either but the section in that photo is not bad really. You wouldnt hear me complaining about it after some of the much worse condtions I have found on the AT. I have a $500 Stihl weedeater that I have used on the trail for yrs.

RATMy response to terrapin ended with the "rolling eyes". I was just kidding around a bit. The photo actually looked like a nice stretch of trail.:) No compaints from this hiker trash.:sun

Panzer1
01-03-2007, 22:45
I think that this is turning into a hate thread. I't one of the few threads here on WB that are dedicated to trashing a fellow hiker.

Panzer

The Old Fhart
01-03-2007, 22:56
terrapin_too-"Old pharts can always find something to complain about, Mags." I can catagorically state that it ain't 'Old Fharts';) that are complaining about the trail, it is MS.


terrapin_too-"Trail emerges from woods onto a road. From that point, it's not at all obvious where the trail re-enters the woods. There's no double-blaze to give a hint, no blaze visible from where you're standing.

So, you pick a direction to walk along the road....",etcThat's where this little invention called a 'guidebook' comes in handy.:rolleyes: Many thrus complain about the Whites when there is either fog or snow and you can't see the blazes or read the signs that ARE there but they don't make the effort to carry a guidebook that would give them the information they need.

I think what MS needed to 'fix' the trail for him was the 'Easy Button' that Staples sells.:D

Hikerhead
01-03-2007, 23:22
I think that this is turning into a hate thread. I't one of the few threads here on WB that are dedicated to trashing a fellow hiker.

Panzer

Gees...(I've been wanting to say that forever) he's trashed the trail from Ga to Me with both his words and 1.25 rolls of toilet paper per day.

Nobody deserves it more.

MOWGLI
01-03-2007, 23:42
I think that this is turning into a hate thread. I't one of the few threads here on WB that are dedicated to trashing a fellow hiker.

Panzer

"Hate" is a bit of an stretch. I think a lot of folks are astounded that someone could walk the entire trail and hold some of the many opinions that he does.

On the other hand, we're dealing with someone who said that there is no difference between Hillary Clinton and Pol Pot. If that ain't hatred, I don't know what is.

Lugnut
01-03-2007, 23:44
I can understand a hiker starting very early may be ahead of weather accountable trail maintenance, however, in this case I don't think it applies. The maintainers I know are pretty conscientious about getting things done before the wave arrives. No one is perfect, but Bob Peoples is as close as anyone will ever get as far as maintainers. Sure can't fathom any critisism directed toward him.

Panzer1
01-03-2007, 23:47
"Hate" is a bit of an stretch. ...

Well if its a "stretch" then that implies that there must be at least some truth to it. In other words your not saying i'm totally off-base just a little off-base.

Panzer

MOWGLI
01-03-2007, 23:52
Well if its a "stretch" then that implies that there must be at least some truth to it. In other words your not saying i'm totally off-base just a little off-base.

Panzer

I think that he engenders a good bit of animosity because of his actions - and his words.

copythat
01-03-2007, 23:55
I think that this is turning into a hate thread. I't one of the few threads here on WB that are dedicated to trashing a fellow hiker.

Panzer

he dissed the trail. human nature to dis 'im back. :cool:


lucky he didn't mention my SISter! :mad:

did he? :eek:

Panzer1
01-03-2007, 23:59
Ok, so we won't call it a "hate thread", we'll just call it a "we really really don't like him" thread. Lets all get together gang up on him... :(

I guess what you have to ask yourself is this: do you really want to participate in this kind of a thread? Is this what you are all about as a person.

Panzer

dixicritter
01-04-2007, 00:10
WhiteBlaze User Rules/Agreement

These rules are designed to make WhiteBlaze useful and enjoyable. Please follow them. As you do, please keep in mind that the purpose of WhiteBlaze is to foster a sense of friendship and community among its members. Behavior that is contrary to that sense of community is not welcome here, and will not be tolerated by WhiteBlaze.

#2 - Offensive posting is not allowed. That includes personal attacks, hate language and symbols, sexually offensive postings and profane/vulgar language, as well as any other offensive language. If you’re not sure whether something is offensive, err on the side of caution.

http://whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=agreement

While one poster may or may not be your favorite person. There is an option to place that poster on ignore so that you no longer have to read their posts and be upset by them or their words. This option can be located by clicking on the users name in their post. I encourage all to give it a try, it really helps reduce stress.

Thank you.

Hikerhead
01-04-2007, 00:17
Lets look at it this way. He has disrespected every trail club and maintainer that views this site.

Who would do that?

And he wants to join a trail club? Who would want him to be a part of their group? Besides that, I'd like to see him swing a Pulaski for 30 minutes. I would guarantee you that would shut him up, I would think. Then again, probably not.

I think he owes everyone an apology for all the stupid crap that has rolled out of his pie hole.

copythat
01-04-2007, 00:24
ms. critter, when do we cross the line between attacking what he says and attacking him? :confused: have we already crossed that line, in your view? :-?




(it has occasionally reminded me of lord of the flies. or maybe black flies.)

dixicritter
01-04-2007, 00:36
copythat, so far I believe this thread has mostly stayed towards the "what he says" side of the fence I just don't want to see things go to far so that was a "warning shot over the bow" so to speak. ;) I've been involved in too many of these battles already I can usually spot where they are headed well before they get there. So if I post something like that it's a "please keep things cool" type of post not a "y'all have crossed the line" type. Trust me you'll know the difference. LOL.

Singe03
01-04-2007, 02:18
I'm still stunned by the "unraked leaves" complaint.

Suddenly all the lefties on the political forum seem much more reasonable to me...

copythat
01-04-2007, 02:47
I'm still stunned by the "unraked leaves" complaint.

Suddenly all the lefties on the political forum seem much more reasonable to me...


what have you got against southpaws? gerald ford was a lefty ... so was ollie north ... :-?


(i hear westmoreland was ambidextrous.)

Mags
01-04-2007, 04:44
Yow, sure. Hint please. :eek:

I found the trail by cursing, taking a bearing and pretty much stumbling upon it by luck.

If you look REALLY closley, you can see a burnt tree with a blaze on it in the middle of the pic.

Was one of my most frustrating days on the trail by far to say the least. :)


Back from my full moon ski adventure...and having a pint or two of happy hour brew. Life ain't bad..ain't bad at all.

Mags
01-04-2007, 04:46
Mags, let me take a guess: is using a map and compass a necessary skill on the CDT?

Hmm..rumor has it. :)

Mags
01-04-2007, 04:54
Old pharts can always find something to complain about, Mags. You're a spring chicken. ;)

Well maybe an "early summer" chicken. My hair is a bit thin on top these days... ;)

Actually, I think thru-hikers just like to bitch at times. I certainly fall in the category. When there is a dirt road, we want single track. When there is single track, we want a dirt road. When it is hot, we want cool. When it is cool, we want warmer temps.

Some of us just know enough to stop the moaning and concetrate on the good things overall. A little kvetching (such a great word!) is good and needed once in a while. When it becomes your standard operating procedure? Well, time to revaluate.

(Not directing this comment at you, just an observation in general)

copythat
01-04-2007, 05:42
Actually, I think thru-hikers just like to bitch at times. ... A little kvetching (such a great word!) is good and needed once in a while. When it becomes your standard operating procedure? Well, time to reevaluate.

(shhh ... if you listen very carefully, you can hear the happy hour brew talking!) :p


but truly, truly,
life ain't bad...ain't bad at all.

:sun

Sly
01-04-2007, 06:10
Some of us just know enough to stop the moaning and concetrate on the good things overall. A little kvetching (such a great word!) is good and needed once in a while. When it becomes your standard operating procedure? Well, time to revaluate.


Good point Mags. Hiking the CDT it would be easy to be critical of conditions, but what's the point? You're going to hike anyway. I remember one day in NM when it was raining, cold and basically miserable. All of a sudden it stopped raining, the sun came out and I turned to witness an awesome rainbow.

Even in the worst of times there's always a bright side. I think most experienced hikers know this and don't focus on trivial matters.

Two Speed
01-04-2007, 06:49
OK, what thru hiker hasn't gone through this routine a hundred times...Which makes it one of those things you deal with on the trail from time to time. For the record, there won't be any escalators, the locals may or may not find the fact you're a backpacker fascinating and there will be occasions where you have to solve your own problems for yourself.
I dunno.... stuff like this used to annoy the hell outta me. Lately, my reaction (much more satisfying) is to shake my fist at the sky, grin and yell, YOU BASTARDS, and move on. I still say it's an easily avoidable annoyance. An extra blaze or two, in places like this, can make a difference.If it really bugs you why not join a local maintaining club and do something about it? You never know, they may make you the Grand Poo Bah of Blazes or something.

rafe
01-04-2007, 08:28
Some of us just know enough to stop the moaning and concetrate on the good things overall. A little kvetching (such a great word!) is good and needed once in a while. When it becomes your standard operating procedure? Well, time to revaluate.

Wise words, Mags. Too bad my "reevaluation" took so many years. ;)

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 09:29
The situation below is familiar... perhaps maintainers could be persuaded by fresh volunteers :D to paint blazes on the road or a roadside tree or rock to indicate where the trail re-enters the woods?


OK, what thru hiker hasn't gone through this routine a hundred times...

Trail emerges from woods onto a road. From that point, it's not at all obvious where the trail re-enters the woods. There's no double-blaze to give a hint, no blaze visible from where you're standing.

So, you pick a direction to walk along the road (let's say, west) expecting to see a blaze in a couple hundred yards or so -- either on the road itself, or in the woods, but presumably visible from the road. No blaze, so you figure you picked wrong, no big deal.

You turn around and walk back, eastbound now, past the point where you stepped out of the woods, looking for that precious blaze. Hmmm. Nothing. You look behind you every few steps to see if there might be a blaze on the opposite side of the tree... just some hint.

So you double back again, and (maybe after a few more cycles of blaze-hunting) you discover the trail really does enter the woods more-or-less across the road from where you emerged, but the trailhead was completely overgrown, and the first blaze on the far section of the trail was not at all visible from the road.
I dunno.... stuff like this used to annoy the hell outta me. Lately, my reaction (much more satisfying) is to shake my fist at the sky, grin and yell, YOU BASTARDS, and move on. I still say it's an easily avoidable annoyance. An extra blaze or two, in places like this, can make a difference.

The Solemates
01-04-2007, 10:32
OK, what thru hiker hasn't gone through this routine a hundred times...


Trail emerges from woods onto a road. From that point, it's not at all obvious where the trail re-enters the woods. There's no double-blaze to give a hint, no blaze visible from where you're standing.

So, you pick a direction to walk along the road (let's say, west) expecting to see a blaze in a couple hundred yards or so -- either on the road itself, or in the woods, but presumably visible from the road. No blaze, so you figure you picked wrong, no big deal.

You turn around and walk back, eastbound now, past the point where you stepped out of the woods, looking for that precious blaze. Hmmm. Nothing. You look behind you every few steps to see if there might be a blaze on the opposite side of the tree... just some hint.

So you double back again, and (maybe after a few more cycles of blaze-hunting) you discover the trail really does enter the woods more-or-less across the road from where you emerged, but the trailhead was completely overgrown, and the first blaze on the far section of the trail was not at all visible from the road.

I dunno.... stuff like this used to annoy the hell outta me. Lately, my reaction (much more satisfying) is to shake my fist at the sky, grin and yell, YOU BASTARDS, and move on. I still say it's an easily avoidable annoyance. An extra blaze or two, in places like this, can make a difference.

I have had this happen to me numerous times, but I can honestly say that I have never had it happen to me on the AT. Even so when it does happen on other trails, I do not complain about it like you do.

Paul Bunyan
01-04-2007, 10:39
I'm guessing this is the thread honoring the demise of THE THREAD. Please correct me if i'm wrong.....

jlb2012
01-04-2007, 10:41
your wrong - this is the thread that addresses MS wrong headedness

Paul Bunyan
01-04-2007, 10:48
Ahh, ok. My bad. This is the trash MS thread. Cool. Where do i sign up?

fvital
01-04-2007, 10:59
I think most experienced hikers know this and don't focus on trivial matters.

There you go. How much experience does MS really have? There's subtle changes in his posts before AT and after AT. He may be the trail maintainer next year or two who doens't get thanked. But personal attacks aren't the way to get him to want to participate and be contributing part of the hiker community.

Lone Wolf
01-04-2007, 11:29
Time to shut this one down too. 124 posts of bashing.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 11:39
Our work is done (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/tombstonethread-1.jpg)

jlb2012
01-04-2007, 11:43
I agree with Lone Wolf - nothing we say here is going to help anything and most especially it will not help change MS's opinions

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 11:43
Our work is done (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/lowcarbscoop/tombstonethread-1.jpg)
How much did you end up paying that stone carver. That's at least 3 different headstones that I've seen.:D BTW, thanks Dixi for helping me keep my New Year's resolution.

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 11:45
Ohmygawd, this is my 996th post here at WB. I hope I don't get red flagged. It's probably too late.:banana

dixicritter
01-04-2007, 11:58
Well I'm not shutting this one down, y'all are going to have to learn self control. If you don't want to post about this then don't do it.

OntheRoad
01-04-2007, 13:12
If you don't like the conditions of the trail then don't walk on it. If you want to walk on a perfectly cleared, smooth and open path then go walk on the damn road.

Only a whiny b!tch would complain because a trail going through the MOUNTAINS isn't maintained enough. Please...

Mags
01-04-2007, 13:28
(shhh ... if you listen very carefully, you can hear the happy hour brew talking!) :p




More like effects from a 4.5 hr ski AND the happy hour brew. (Only two pints though..don't think I am quite THAT cheap of a date.... :) )


But to answer some: Sorry, think this thread has moved beyond "bashing" in some ways. Talking about complaints somone has concerning the trail can bring about some discussion. If we did not have difference of opinions, be one boring life. What's next? Shall we all hold hands and sing "kum-by-ya" and do a drum cirlce? :D

Anyway....

What kind of trail do people really want? Believe me, hiking the burnt out area on Wagontongue mountain in the pic I posted is NOT my idea of a trail. OTOH, I'd hate to walk the equivalent of forest service road for 4-6 mos. Bleech!

So what do hikers really want from a trail? Extreme challenge? A glorified bike path? Something in between?

And when the trail does not meet expectations....does just moaning about it do anything? It makes a hiker miserable (again, in the general sense) and does not effect the trail at all. A hiker's trail experience is diminished. And if a hiker really does find the trail to not meet their concept of a trail...then do something about it.

Feel free to put cute graphics of tombstones. :)

Mags
01-04-2007, 13:31
Even in the worst of times there's always a bright side. I think most experienced hikers know this and don't focus on trivial matters.


My buddly D-low likes to say "Embrace the brutality!" concerning the CDT.

Applies to any outdoor experience I think!

MOWGLI
01-04-2007, 13:35
There was a badly burned area on the PCT/JMT just south of Red's Meadow (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=14268&c=684). That's near the Red Cones. Some folks absolutely DESPISED that area. I liked it because of the variety, and because I could see the forest succession. There were some muddy areas and plenty of briars, but it was DIFFERENT, which is what makes trails interesting to me.

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 13:37
Ohmygawd, this is my 996th post here at WB. I hope I don't get red flagged. It's probably too late.:bananaAnybody besides me notice that our # of posts is/are stuck and not adding up anymore? I'm stuck at 997. Dixie, your stuck at 566.

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 13:39
Anybody besides me notice that our # of posts is/are stuck and not adding up anymore? I'm stuck at 997. Dixie, your stuck at 566.Whoops, I guess someone noticed, because my last post was 998. This one should be 999.....nevermind.:banana

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 13:42
Whoops, I guess someone noticed, because my last post was 998. This one should be 999.....nevermind.:bananaWow, am I the only one. Someone's messin' with me or else I'm having a flashback. This should be post 1000 for me which is too d--- many. I hope my boss doesn't see this. BTW, MS, I hope you feel properly retorted.

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 13:45
Alright, quit messin' with me. Now all 5 of my posts on this thread say 1000. I've gotta lay off those school lunches.....

woodsy
01-04-2007, 13:46
I thought I wanted to be a trail maintainer.........but now , besides carrying a chainsaw,spade,loping shears,bowsaw etc... I'll also need a wheelbarrow full-o-gravel(to fill in muddy spots) a rake, a weedwacker, lots-0-red carpet, a gallon white paint and brush, half logs for bog bridges, ladders for rock faces and a family of Sherpas to carry all the stuff! Smitty sure has given new meaning to trail maintaining, LOL.

copythat
01-04-2007, 14:08
I thought I wanted to be a trail maintainer.........but now , besides carrying a chainsaw,spade,loping shears,bowsaw etc... I'll also need a wheelbarrow full-o-gravel(to fill in muddy spots) a rake, a weedwacker, lots-0-red carpet, a gallon white paint and brush, half logs for bog bridges, ladders for rock faces and a family of Sherpas to carry all the stuff! Smitty sure has given new meaning to trail maintaining, LOL.


ok, i called pbs, and we're all signed up for a new series: this old trail.

every week, landscaper bob cook will show viewers how to replace those ugly old growth trees with pretty new hybrids just PERfect for that quiet little corner over there ... and plumber Richard Trethewey will explain how to install proper draining so those wetlands don't encroach on the trail ... and tom silva's going to help us pick out tool belts to hang our chainsaws on so we can carve our way straight up the hills if we think the switchbacks are too wimpy ...

... i think that's got it covered. :rolleyes:

series starts next fall.

oh yeah, i'm still trying to sell HGTV on the idea of a 'trading shelters' show, where we'd spiffy up the shelters and get locals to move in, while we turn their homes into gathering spots for hikers on the trail. :D

MOWGLI
01-04-2007, 14:24
I thought I wanted to be a trail maintainer.........but now , besides carrying a chainsaw,spade,loping shears,bowsaw etc... I'll also need a wheelbarrow full-o-gravel(to fill in muddy spots) a rake, a weedwacker, lots-0-red carpet, a gallon white paint and brush, half logs for bog bridges, ladders for rock faces and a family of Sherpas to carry all the stuff!

Go west young Man! The PCT/JMT beckons. And you can attach your leaf rake to the Llama quite easily (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=14269&c=684).

Jan LiteShoe
01-04-2007, 14:28
Originally Posted by Sly http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=296310#post296310)

Even in the worst of times there's always a bright side. I think most experienced hikers know this and don't focus on trivial matters.


My buddly D-low likes to say "Embrace the brutality!" concerning the CDT.

Applies to any outdoor experience I think!

Very much enjoying this line of thinking.
Good posts in this direction.

If any '07 or future thrus are reading...therein lies the secret.
In case it was missed on the first read-thru.
:)

copythat
01-04-2007, 15:01
can't talk now. packing to climb schagticoke mountain on my atv. :banana

(got orange spray paint to mark trees that are in my way. does that count toward my volunteer trail maintenance time?) :-?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 15:11
Go west young Man! The PCT/JMT beckons. And you can attach your leaf rake to the Llama quite easily (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=14269&c=684).::: saves pennies to buy a llama (are they allowed in the Smokies?) :::

woodsy
01-04-2007, 15:19
If you don't like the conditions of the trail then don't walk on it. If you want to walk on a perfectly cleared, smooth and open path then go walk on the damn road.

Only a whiny b!tch would complain because a trail going through the MOUNTAINS isn't maintained enough. Please...

This post (from a Minnesotan) proves that there are level-headed people in Minnesota, Thank You for posting these comments, as do many other Minnesotans.

MOWGLI
01-04-2007, 15:21
::: saves pennies to buy a llama (are they allowed in the Smokies?) :::

I don't know about the Smokies, but hiking on the Colorado Trail or the John Muir Trail with the aid of Llamas or Mules would be a great solution for you She-Dino. You could let the beast of burden carry your pack, and the Mules or Llamas could carry the beast's pack. ;)

Seriously, the trails out west are nicely graded, and would be a great alternative to the AT for you. Pack animals would alleviate carrying any weight. Give it some thought!

Lugnut
01-04-2007, 15:29
::: saves pennies to buy a llama (are they allowed in the Smokies?) :::
Pack animals are not permitted on the AT, unless, of course, you're going to eat them. ;)

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 15:31
Pack animals are not permitted on the AT, unless, of course, you're going to eat them. ;)Ummmmmm.....tastes like spotted owl.....or was that manatee?

Jan LiteShoe
01-04-2007, 16:16
"Originally Posted by OntheRoad http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=296521#post296521)
Only a whiny b!tch would complain because a trail going through the MOUNTAINS isn't maintained enough. Please..."

This post (from a Minnesotan) proves that there are level-headed people in Minnesota, Thank You for posting these comments, as do many other Minnesotans.

Leaving off the harsh gender slam, I concurr.

Mags
01-04-2007, 16:45
You could let the beast of burden carry your pack, and the Mules or Llamas could carry the beast's pack. ;)

Seriously, the trails out west are nicely graded, and would be a great alternative to the AT for you. Pack animals would alleviate carrying any weight. Give it some thought!

On a similar note, read the book Scraping Heaven by Cindy Ross. It is about her and her family's multi-year hike of the CDT. Because they had small children at the time, llamas was a great way for them to explore the trail.

IIRC, there are some resources in the book about llama packing.

Llamas apaprently are great if you want to do most of the walking but want your pack weight to be carried. Lets you get out there and Western trails are much easier in terms of tread. FD, if you have trouble backpacking, take Mowgli's advice and explore the western trails with the help of llamas.

After all, it is about getting out there and enjoying yourself. Go for it!

Here's some great info for the Colorado Trail and and llama packing:
http://www.coloradotrail.org/packanimals.html


If you make your way out here, give me a shout. Or maybe that will keep you away? :)

ps. Almost forgot to add many outfitting companies in CO will rent llamas. Have to save less pennies that way!

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 16:58
Do you think I could convince a ranger in the GSMNP that the llama carrying my stuff was dinner if I showed him / her my pointy little teeth?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 17:00
I may have to seriously consider packing out west with llamas. It would be much easier on the dino leg. It just won't hold up if I carry more than 18 lbs for any distance -- and the he-dino is getting older and isn't the pack mule he used to be.

MOWGLI
01-04-2007, 17:06
Pack animals are not permitted on the AT, unless, of course, you're going to eat them. ;)

The AT is only 75 of 900 miles of trails in GSMNP. I don't think pack animals are allowed on the horse trails, but I'm not certain. Anyone else know the regs?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 17:14
Wonder if I could get a llama listed as a service animal? I imagine it would be allowed pretty much everywhere if I could. (Don't worry, I promise not bring my llama to any shelters to spend the night :D)

::: off to look up what's involved in caring for a llama :::

Nean
01-04-2007, 17:37
I wish MS would have hiked the trail in the late 80s when I did.:eek: I don't think he would of made it :D ..... but he would know that the trail is MUCH easier and better maintained these days.:) If you are looking for a perfectly maintained trail, mile after mile, you're not going to find it and should spend your time doing something else.:-?

The Solemates
01-04-2007, 17:46
If you are looking for a perfectly maintained trail, mile after mile, you're not going to find it and should spend your time doing something else.:-?

I disagree. The AT is perfectly maintained, mile after mile.

Nean
01-04-2007, 17:52
I disagree. The AT is perfectly maintained, mile after mile.

Sure it is:rolleyes: and we are all perfct people too;)








yes, I know, I'm a perfect speller:D

Sly
01-04-2007, 17:55
Wonder if I could get a llama listed as a service animal? I imagine it would be allowed pretty much everywhere if I could. (Don't worry, I promise not bring my llama to any shelters to spend the night :D)

::: off to look up what's involved in caring for a llama :::

I hear goats are more easily managed and can carry 40lbs or more.

Dances with Mice
01-04-2007, 17:59
I hear goats are more easily managed and can carry 40lbs or more.But can they stand the smell of hikers?

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 18:09
I hear goats are more easily managed and can carry 40lbs or more.Have you had B-B-Q goat? Quite the delicacy here in N Central FL. Seriously. (Tastes like Bald Eagle.:D )

Sly
01-04-2007, 18:10
Goat Hater!!!! :mad:

Mags
01-04-2007, 18:18
I hear goats are more easily managed and can carry 40lbs or more.

That reminds me..they have a magazine for GoatPacking:

http://www.goattracksmagazine.com/

Forgot about Goat Packing.

The head of the magazine is a frequent PCT-L poster as well.

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 18:20
Goat Hater!!!! :mad:I get it. I actually tried to stay nuetral in that one!:)

copythat
01-04-2007, 19:01
I hear goats are more easily managed and can carry 40lbs or more.

http://www.caribbeanchoice.com/recipes/recipe.asp?id=95

Mother's Finest
01-04-2007, 19:03
I am with Panzer and Weinstone. Love is all we need. Minnesota Smith is always going to give you his opinion. Take it or leave it. If you want to draw a line in the sand and say "don't step over this", that is your choice. I guarantee you he will step over it.

People have to learn to love on their own. You cannot force it on them.

Peace
mf

Lugnut
01-04-2007, 19:12
The AT is only 75 of 900 miles of trails in GSMNP. I don't think pack animals are allowed on the horse trails, but I'm not certain. Anyone else know the regs?

It's my understanding that pack animals are not permitted anywhere on the AT. I can't cite a reference though but I did read that somewhere, I just don't remember. A mind is a terrible thing when it's wasting away! ;)

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 19:15
Have you had B-B-Q goat? Quite the delicacy here in N Central FL. Seriously. (Tastes like Bald Eagle.:D )Never BBQ'ed on but I did nip one on the toes once - tasted like fine wine :D

Hikerhead
01-04-2007, 19:19
This is suppose to be a rag on MS who ragged on the trail conditions/maintainers.

Lets get back to raggin'. :)

saimyoji
01-04-2007, 19:22
It's my understanding that pack animals are not permitted anywhere on the AT. I can't cite a reference though but I did read that somewhere, I just don't remember. A mind is a terrible thing when it's wasting away! ;)


I think Mowgli was referring to those miles of trails in the GSMNP NOT on the AT. :-?

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 19:22
Never BBQ'ed on but I did nip one on the toes once - tasted like fine wine :DHopefully, the gators will be munchin' on some buckeyes. I don't think you eat 'em, but, we'll try 'em.:sun

woodsy
01-04-2007, 19:27
This is suppose to be a rag on MS who ragged on the trail conditions/maintainers.

Lets get back to raggin'. :)

Speaking of MS, wonder why he hasn't responded to HIS NEW THREAD lately,suppose he's doin some trail maintenance?:-? How bout ya MS?

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 19:29
This is suppose to be a rag on MS who ragged on the trail conditions/maintainers.

Lets get back to raggin'. :)I think it's obvious by now that any tread bearing the moniker MS will contain a lot of BS (that is in the true old-fashioned sense of shooting the breeze, nothing personal against you, MS, I stand in total awe of your oxlyness)

Sly
01-04-2007, 19:34
The AT is only 75 of 900 miles of trails in GSMNP. I don't think pack animals are allowed on the horse trails, but I'm not certain. Anyone else know the regs?

I was always inder the impression that horses are pack animals! :-?

Two Speed
01-04-2007, 20:02
Definitely remember horses on parts of the AT south of Newfound Gap in the GSMNP. IIRC that part of the AT was traditionally open to horse traffic, before the park was dedicated, and the Park Service has opted to continue that tradition. Can't say I like the horse poop, but after the way some horse wranglers treated me when I got off of the Pinhoti in Georgia I'm gonna have to cut 'em some breaks.

mweinstone
01-04-2007, 21:14
the office of the president must not appear empty and weak.

the goat
01-04-2007, 21:37
Have you had B-B-Q goat? Quite the delicacy here in N Central FL. Seriously. (Tastes like Bald Eagle.:D )

that'll be enough of that, thanks!:mad:

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-04-2007, 21:41
:::: Chomp.... ah, a fine Meursault ::::

4eyedbuzzard
01-04-2007, 22:27
That's where this little invention called a 'guidebook' comes in handy. Many thrus complain about the Whites when there is either fog or snow and you can't see the blazes or read the signs that ARE there but they don't make the effort to carry a guidebook that would give them the information they need.

A GUIDEBOOK!:eek: Do you have any idea how much one of those things weigh? I'll bet you you even carry a FULL LENGTH toothbrush. Ol' Colin Fletcher would not be impressed.;)

MS is right about the blazes though. At one point in the Whites, I didn't see one for at least a ten mile stretch, and it wasn't even foggy. I was so caught up in looking for them I was constantly bumping into large piles of rocks with my most tender parts. I got a long inseam - but not THAT long. The maintainers oughta knock down those rock piles down - right after they're done shoveling the snow and and putting sand down on the rime ice.:D

bobgessner57
01-04-2007, 22:30
F. Dino:

There is somebody near Max Patch that does guided llama trips. I think they are based on the NC side on the Max Patch rd. I have seen their string getting loaded up where the Harmon Den Rd comes intersects Max Patch Rd. I bet the folks at Bluff Mtn Outfitters would know how to put you in touch. It seems like an interesting proposition and a guided trip would be a great non committal way to see if it works for you. There are lots of other trails in the Max Patch area besides the AT.

Trillium
01-04-2007, 22:32
Hopefully, the gators will be munchin' on some buckeyes. I don't think you eat 'em, but, we'll try 'em.:sunThe Spartans have feasted on the gators a time or two and let me tell you, it was goooooood eating!:D

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 22:32
MS is right about the blazes though. At one point in the Whites, I didn't see one for at least a ten mile stretch, and it wasn't even foggy. I was so caught up in looking for them I was constantly bumping into large piles of rocks with my most tender parts. I got a long inseam - but not THAT long. The maintainers oughta knock down those rock piles down - right after they're done shoveling the snow and and putting sand down on the rime ice.:DPretty funny for only your 8th post. Yeah, I thought there were an awful lot of rockpiles. I figure if they get any bigger, you'll be able to hammock in the Whites above the treeline.

4eyedbuzzard
01-04-2007, 22:42
I figure I'd just jump right in and go for the yucks. Lifes too short - sometimes ya gotta blue blaze from the get-go.

Trillium
01-04-2007, 22:43
Have you had B-B-Q goat? Quite the delicacy here in N Central FL. Seriously. (Tastes like Bald Eagle.:D )I enjoyed some cabrito in Nuevo Laredo mmmmmm

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 22:46
I enjoyed some cabrito in Nuevo Laredo mmmmmm
Ohmygawd!! Not the dreaded Poopa-cabra:eek: ! We need to move this to the odd/supernatural thread.

stumpy
01-04-2007, 23:13
Have you had B-B-Q goat? Quite the delicacy here in N Central FL. Seriously. (Tastes like Bald Eagle.:D )


Have you stopped at he b-b-q place in Inverness, just north of P.P.?

Gray Blazer
01-04-2007, 23:21
Have you stopped at he b-b-q place in Inverness, just north of P.P.?
Is that near Holder? I don't know what P.P. stands for. Do they serve goat?

stumpy
01-04-2007, 23:38
Sorry, I should have been more detailed. PP stands for Paynes Praire (in my own computer shorthand). There is a little B-B-Q (or at least there used to be around 2002) on the side of the road. It is just a pull up window, but it is pretty good. They have goat and all sorts of b-b-qued stuff. If you get a chance you should drive down from G-ville and check it out.

stumpy
01-04-2007, 23:41
I had the wrong city. It is McIntosh, I think. It is a wide place in the road just north of the praire.

Lugnut
01-05-2007, 02:04
Hopefully, the gators will be munchin' on some buckeyes. I don't think you eat 'em, but, we'll try 'em.:sun

The markets around here are selling alligator meat now. There was a story on the news tonight on how to fry it up for tail gate parties. Go Bucks! :banana

LEGS
01-05-2007, 02:12
A GUIDEBOOK!:eek: Do you have any idea how much one of those things weigh? I'll bet you you even carry a FULL LENGTH toothbrush. Ol' Colin Fletcher would not be impressed.;)

MS is right about the blazes though. At one point in the Whites, I didn't see one for at least a ten mile stretch, and it wasn't even foggy. I was so caught up in looking for them I was constantly bumping into large piles of rocks with my most tender parts. I got a long inseam - but not THAT long. The maintainers oughta knock down those rock piles down - right after they're done shoveling the snow and and putting sand down on the rime ice.:D

did you ever here the word--"cairn"--big help sometimes!

Sly
01-05-2007, 04:30
did you ever here the word--"cairn"--big help sometimes!

LOL... he had to be joking! Atleast I hope so..

The Old Fhart
01-05-2007, 09:17
4eyedbuzzard-"MS is right about the blazes though. At one point in the Whites, I didn't see one for at least a ten mile stretch, and it wasn't even foggy. I was so caught up in looking for them I was constantly bumping into large piles of rocks with my most tender parts. I got a long inseam - but not THAT long. The maintainers oughta knock down those rock piles down - right after they're done shoveling the snow and and putting sand down on the rime ice.:D "Now that's funny! I always thought those piles of rocks were left by the Druids, or were the unmarked graves of the hikers who died hiking through the Whites!:-?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-05-2007, 09:54
Now that's funny! I always thought those piles of rocks were left by the Druids, or were the unmarked graves of the hikers who died hiking through the Whites!:-?You silly boy, that's how bears bury their victims.

rafe
01-05-2007, 10:04
Now that's funny! I always thought those piles of rocks were left by the Druids, or were the unmarked graves of the hikers who died hiking through the Whites!:-?


Nah, it's the AMC hut boys.. They build muscle mass by schlepping rocks over the ridges.

stumpy
01-05-2007, 10:31
The markets around here are selling alligator meat now. There was a story on the news tonight on how to fry it up for tail gate parties. Go Bucks! :banana


Take if from a Nole fan. Nothing taste better than gator tail on a victorous gameday! Unfortunately, we have not had many of those lately!

Singe03
01-05-2007, 12:45
Ok so we need a team of landscapers to take care of those pesky leaves and now a team of Buddhist monks to take their rakes to all those piles of pebbles and shape them in to interesting patterns around larger rocks so hikers can quietly reflect on the serenity of the mountains in the absense of blazes?

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-05-2007, 13:18
F. Dino:

There is somebody near Max Patch that does guided llama trips. I think they are based on the NC side on the Max Patch rd. I have seen their string getting loaded up where the Harmon Den Rd comes intersects Max Patch Rd. I bet the folks at Bluff Mtn Outfitters would know how to put you in touch. It seems like an interesting proposition and a guided trip would be a great non committal way to see if it works for you. There are lots of other trails in the Max Patch area besides the AT.I actually did this once with a group of foster children -- as I recall the llamas were somewhat difficult to care for (required lots of special food and grooming). There is a llama farm next door to a family in my church - the wife has arranged for me to go talk with the owner about llama care. I would never get an animal I was not willing or able to give proper care.

Gray Blazer
01-05-2007, 13:25
Take if from a Nole fan. Nothing taste better than gator tail on a victorous gameday! Unfortunately, we have not had many of those lately!Tell 'em, Stumpy!

4eyedbuzzard
01-05-2007, 14:11
did you ever here the word--"cairn"--big help sometimes!

It's real fun up there when the fog's so thick that you can't even see the next one. That's how they got that name, ya know - "I cairn't find my way." The " 't " was lost when it blew off the mountain.:D

TOW
01-05-2007, 14:27
Yeehaw! Keep this fire a flarin!!!!!

4eyedbuzzard
01-05-2007, 14:30
I always thought those piles of rocks were left by the Druids...

They certainly henged my stones a few times.:D

Seriously though, I was up on Mt Washington once when the fog was so thick we all hiked holding on to a nylon line so the lead man could find his way back if he couldn't find the next cairn. Took us several hours to decend below timberline where the visibility improved. Scary. You really can die up there in the middle of July.

The Old Fhart
01-05-2007, 14:42
4eyedbuzzard-"Seriously though, I was up on Mt Washington once when the fog was so thick we all hiked holding on to a nylon line so the lead man could find his way back if he couldn't find the next cairn."I was riding up to work at the Obsevatory on shift change one winter and the Cat driver asked me to get out and tell him where the edge of the Auto Road was because he couldn't see it in the blowing snow and fog(clouds). It can get nasty up there any time of year, and the weather can change very quickly.

4eyedbuzzard
01-05-2007, 14:50
...Nothing taste better than gator tail... Unfortunately, we have not had many of those lately!

:banana http://gatorzone.com/spirit/?p=cheerleaders :banana

Yum! :jump Gator tail looks delicious!

4eyedbuzzard
01-05-2007, 14:53
I was riding up to work at the Obsevatory on shift change one winter...

Eek. You're not Marty on the Mountain are you? ;)

Gray Blazer
01-05-2007, 14:56
:banana http://gatorzone.com/spirit/?p=cheerleaders :banana

Yum! :jump Gator tail looks delicious!Man, you are a hoot!

Heater
01-05-2007, 14:59
http://gatorzone.com/spirit/?p=cheerleaders

Yum! :jump Gator tail looks delicious!

Are those garter bels they're wearing?

:banana :banana :banana

Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-05-2007, 15:04
Those are garters - not garter belts....
::: belches fire in the general direction of the fellows with their tongues hanging out ::

The Old Fhart
01-05-2007, 15:22
4eyedbuzzard-"Eek. You're not Marty on the Mountain are you?"Sorry, Marty worked for TV, not the Obs.

:D<--Marty's smile

Paul Bunyan
01-05-2007, 15:28
Man, this thread is really stacking up, 200 posts already. Though, i still like that i can brag that i got the 6000 post on THE THREAD.

stumpy
01-05-2007, 17:51
:banana http://gatorzone.com/spirit/?p=cheerleaders :banana

Yum! :jump Gator tail looks delicious!

I guess I should be more specific. I have not had any "fried" gator tail lately! I did mary a UF alum, so I thought that I would clear that up!

4eyedbuzzard
01-05-2007, 19:03
I guess I should be more specific...

Naw, it would have ruined the fun.:)

Gray Blazer
01-05-2007, 19:05
Man, this thread is really stacking up, 200 posts already. Though, i still like that i can brag that i got the 6000 post on THE THREAD.
Not possible if Matthewski doesn't contribute. He's holding out!

copythat
01-07-2007, 19:03
minnesota smith has OBVIOUSLY been in connecticut, and recently. (most likely after the initiating of this thread.)

in the mount schagticoke area ...

recent cutting of blowdowns (some cuts begun with an ax, finished with a saw -- and minnesota is known to run out of patience, is he not?) ...

... brand new sparkling irridescent pearl-white blazes, and sometimes only 10 to 15 feet apart (suggesting minnesota's myopia helped place the blazes, no?) ...

it's culear to me he has repented, turned a new leaf (and will he now rake them?) and he chose new england for her recent delightfully warm weather as a place to begin his campaign! ;)

my entire opinion of life is radically altered. i find promise in EVERYone. (yes, even you! :D )

Old Hillwalker
01-08-2007, 22:54
Those piles of stones are where little furry animals called Cairn Terrors live. They are offspring of another White Mountain beastey called the Mongol. In the winter the Mongols migrate to Alpine ski areas where they live under the snow usually at the outside edges of steep ski slopes. Often the ski area operators will indicate that the Mongol housing area by posting color coded signs above their village. The slopes with the highest Mongol population density is usually indicated by a black diamond, sometimes two, but not often truly found in the East. When spring arrives, the Mongols suddenly grow larger for a time, then give birth to Cairn Terrors and migrate back above the tree line where they stay during the warmer months. If you sit very patiently, in the dark during a warm summer night, you may see the Mongols quietly moving about on the mountainside. Interestingly enough, many of the oldest Mongols living in the Whites are capped by a creamy white stone. Much like a white haired older person's hair. Additionally, the oldest mountain mongols seem to be the largest. The Mongol who lives at Thunderstorm Junction must be one of the oldest due to its size. At the junction of The Crawford Path and AT on Mt Pierce, one of the Mongols once contained a square plastic container that it apparently stole from a hiker while he was using GPS device. The cache is gone now, having been digested by the Mongol I suppose.

Many people (mostly skiiers and boarders) mispronounce the name of the wintering Mongol as Mogul:D

Next topic will be the famous "Side Hill Gouger" as described by Joe Dodge in his White Mountain Memoirs.

Hi matthewski;)