View Full Version : Back pain, pack type, pack weight.
Three scenarios:
1. Camp Trails external frame pack (the old favorite) typically 35 lbs total on my back. At least 1500+ miles with this pack.
2. EMS "Long Trail" internal frame pack, same load (35 lbs.)
3. Granite Gear Vapor Trail, 23 lbs total on my back.
With scenario #1, I never had back pain. With scenarios #2 and #3, some back pain. (Admittedly, less so in #3 than in #2.) Any idea what's going on?
Was there a lot of time difference between # 1 and #2 & #3?
Did you go back to #1 after the pain started and not have the pain return?
You can do things when you are young that will kill you as you get older.
Was there a lot of time difference between # 1 and #2 & #3?
Did you go back to #1 after the pain started and not have the pain return?
You can do things when you are young that will kill you as you get older.
The Camp Trails pack has been the ongoing, long-term favorite. The EMS pack was used for a 110 mile section in late June 2005. The Camp Trails was used in last year's 145 mile section (Sept. 2006.) The Vapor Trail is very new; this weekend's hike was the first significant hike I've done with it -- about 17 miles total.
If you have used the Camp Trails after you used the other two and the pain did not return, I am out of ideas, as to why!! I would hike with the one that doesn't hurt no matter what the weight.
Undershaft
01-09-2007, 12:55
Perhaps it is the fit of the internal frame packs. When I first started backpacking I had no clue what I was doing when I adjusted the fit of my pack(ordered by mail, should have gone to good outfitter). The first overnite trip my pack did not fit very well. The lumbar pad kept digging into the small of my back. It caused some serious lower back pain for about 4 days after I returned from my trip. I've since learned to adjust it properly and it's no longer a problem. The lumbar pad on my pack is quite prominent and can hinder more than help w/ a poor fit. Maybe its just the way the padding is designed on the latter 2 packs you mentioned. I don't think you had too much weight in your pack. It could be the way the support stays inside the pack are designed. They might not fit the curve of your back well. Or its subconsious guilt from leaving the old favorite at home. The way I beat my back pain was to just keep playing with it(my pack) until I got it adjusted right. How long have you been using the internal frames?
I don't think you had too much weight in your pack. It could be the way the support stays inside the pack are designed. They might not fit the curve of your back well. Or its subconsious guilt from leaving the old favorite at home. The way I beat my back pain was to just keep playing with it(my pack) until I got it adjusted right. How long have you been using the internal frames?
Not much luck with the internal frames! That seems to be the only common denominator, but it's still hard to explain. The weight of the Vapor Trails was like nothing... Absolutely no strain on shoulders or hips. I'm not aware of any adjustments to make on the Vapor Trail (regarding the frame.)
One thought I've had is that both of the I.F. packs contacted my back primarily at the spine and near the center of my back. The Camp Trails has mesh, so the pressure on the back is more even. Also, the contact point on the Camp Trails is lower than with either of the I.F. packs.
4eyedbuzzard
01-09-2007, 13:19
Just a possibility here - I'm not an Orthopaedist (though I have stayed at a few Holiday Inn Expresses). I have a pretty bad L4-L5 disc just for background info(occupational injury, not from backpacking).
Internal packs tend to put a greater percentage of the load on the shoulders compared to external frames, requiring the spine to transmit this portion of the load down to the hips through the vertebra and discs, while externals transmit the load to the hips more directly, with less spinal compression. Hiking posture is also slighly different with ext. v int. packs. Externals allow you to walk slightly more upright as the load and center of gravity is higher, while internals require the spine to be more bent forward as the load is carried lower. This forward bending is the cause of much back pain in many people, not just backpackers. The downside of externals is as you know, balance and mobility. Other than that I think they do carry loads more comfortably.
The spine(and discs) basically degenerate with age and wear and tear. You can strengthen core muscles to compensate/stabilize the spine to some degree, and it does help(this I do religiously) but long term the vertebra and discs do not get better with age. Mutivitamins, glucosamine, B's, C, and E, etc may help, some would just suggest they create expensive urine, I figure they wouldn't be the biggest waste of $20 month and at worse they seem to do no harm. Avoid jumping off things, skiing moguls, and other impact loads that compress the spine.
My only suggestion would be keep the weight down and keep it on the hips. Sounds like the external may be the way to go for you, I, and others with back pain. There is a new lightweight modular external pack available, though I have not tried it, other here at WB have reviewed it. http://www.luxurylite.com/packindex.html
orangebug
01-09-2007, 14:35
Ditto, I would look at the fit and how much weight is carried on the hips versus shoulders. Personally, I am better regarding back pain while hiking and for at least a couple days afterward. My hip belt is the primary support for my internal frame pack, with shoulder straps primarily used to avoid side shifting and other movement.
hopefulhiker
01-09-2007, 21:00
Check out the Luxury Lite Pack.... no back pain!
Check out the Luxury Lite Pack.... no back pain!
Have you used it? I've looked at the site, read the details. I'm not convinced (yet.) Their whole idea (it seems to me) is to put 100% of the weight on the hips. From past experience (with other packs) I don't think that's going to work for me.
I am keenly interested in recommendations for modern, lightweight, external-frame packs. Actually, the Ospreys with the mesh backs looked interesting also. Sigh.
Alligator
01-09-2007, 21:15
Have you ever had back trouble in the past terrapin_too? There are a number of folks on this site who have and may be able to help better if you happen to have a specific back problem/injury. Can you be more specific as to where the pain was?
hopefulhiker
01-09-2007, 21:23
Yes terrapin, I thru hiked O5 with a luxury lite pack.. It was great.. I would do it again. The frame broke but Bruce redesigned it to be stronger... I am a firm believer in that pack.. Check out the other thread on the LL pack... The front back was originally talked about by Colin Fletcher back in the '70's in the book "The Complete Walker" first edition.. The luxury lite pack is an example of this... I really liked it...
Have you ever had back trouble in the past terrapin_too? There are a number of folks on this site who have and may be able to help better if you happen to have a specific back problem/injury. Can you be more specific as to where the pain was?
Not really, Alligator. The first time I experienced this was in 2005, with the EMS "Long Trails" and ~ 35 lbs total. No such pain in Sept. 2006, using the old Camp Trails pack and a similar total. But just 2 days ago -- with a much lighter load (23 lbs) and the Vapor Trail, some of that pain came back. :eek: The pain is mostly on one side of the back, feels like it's running vertically. I can't place any more closely than that. In fact, since about 1988 or so, I'd never had this problem with the Camp Trails. Sore shoulders, for sure.
Sometimes it's unrelated to hiking. I mean, I'm still feeling it now, 2 days after the hike. So maybe I'm just getting old... :rolleyes:
Yes terrapin, I thru hiked O5 with a luxury lite pack.. It was great.. I would do it again. The frame broke but Bruce redesigned it to be stronger... I am a firm believer in that pack.. Check out the other thread on the LL pack... The front back was originally talked about by Colin Fletcher back in the '70's in the book "The Complete Walker" first edition.. The luxury lite pack is an example of this... I really liked it...
Well, that counts for something, then. I'll keep this in mind. Must go do some crunches. I really need more upper-body workouts... :cool:
Alligator
01-09-2007, 21:52
Someone once brought to my attention that internal frame packs come in two types with regard to the back support. The Vapor Trail has a vertical split in the padding, whereas other packs have horizontal splits. I don't know with your EMS pack what type it is. While I own a Vapor Trail, I find the horizontal type a better fit.
Did you have someone measure your back for your packs? (Just covering some of the bases:) )
I had some serious back pains the first time I used an internal. I fiddled with the lumbar support way too much.
FWIW, I have herniated a disk in the past and currently have 3 internals that in no way aggravate my back. Besides the VT, I have an Osprey Aether 60, and an Arc'teryx Bora 95.
Alligator
01-09-2007, 21:59
I looked up the EMS Long Trail II. I'm not a gear shop employee, but it looks like it too has vertical splits in back padding. Except it has three sections, not two like a Vapor Trail:-? .
Also, did you try bending the stays in the EMS?
Jim Adams
01-09-2007, 22:37
Terrapin Too,
I have owned and used camp trails, north face, gregory, osprey, jansport, dana and kelty packs, all of them internal frame. I have started heavy and gone to light. I have used them stock and also custom fitted. NONE have ever been as comfortable as my Peak 1 external with the XPD suspension that I thru hiked with in 1990.
geek
Hello Again, Alligator. The Long Trail was returned to EMS. I never did fiddle with the stays on it. And if there's anything to fiddle with on the Vapor Trail, I'm not aware of it. (ie. in terms of adjustments to the frame.)
One thing about the Vapor Trail bothers me... if I use the pouch for the hydration sack for a 2-qt Platy, the pad is noticeably convex against my back. So most of the pressure is directed right at the spine. That doesn't seem right.
No "professional" fitting. I measured myself (wife helped) and determined that I needed a small (I'm about 5'5".) Ordered a mens small, received a womens medium. :cool: Which I didn't notice till about a week later. Wonder if that's an issue.... D'ya think I should have made a fuss?
Alligator
01-09-2007, 22:47
Hello Again, Alligator. The Long Trail was returned to EMS. I don't feel too guilty about it -- I've spent megabucks there over the years, and it was in mint condition. I never did fiddle with the stays on it. And if there's anything to fiddle with on the Vapor Trail, I'm not aware of it. (ie. in terms of adjustments to the frame.)
One thing about the Vapor Trail bothers me... if I use the pouch for the hydration sack for a 2-qt Platy, the pad is noticeably convex against my back. So any pressure will be directed right at the spine. That doesn't seem right.Yes, fixed with the frame on the VT. You pay for the lower weight in that regard.
I know what you mean with the platypus. If you keep it, try a larger platy with 2l of water, there will be less bulge. I have a 3 liter, it doesn't expand as much.
Alligator
01-09-2007, 22:51
...
No "professional" fitting. I measured myself (wife helped) and determined that I needed a small (I'm about 5'5".) Ordered a mens small, received a womens medium. :cool: Which I didn't notice till about a week later. Wonder if that's an issue.... D'ya think I should have made a fuss?
Actually the straps are different. Can't resist...Do you have man boobs:jump .
copythat
01-09-2007, 23:57
difference in packs/pain is puzzling. i'm wondering whether it's not what you're carrying but how you're carrying it.
i used to carry a 25-lb camera bag draped over my right shoulder. i would get pain on my right side, from just below my butt to halfway up my back, when i carried it for too long at once. my chiropractor said my muscles were compensating to fix my posture.
i had the same problem (though less) when i started carrying a backpack. again, he said my muscles were compensating and suggested i use a trekking pole in my right hand and do most of my "lifting" on inclines and pushing in my stride with my left leg. that's helped.
also, i find i get more pain up higher if my shoulder straps are set evenly (!) so now i adjust them individually until i feel ok.
hammock engineer
01-10-2007, 00:34
My question is where is your back hurting? I am assuming it is the lower back. I have a heavy rei internal frame pack and the VT pack. The rei pack has a strong frame and carrys the weight really well. The VT frame is not very sturdy. I can't seem to carry 20 lbs in it and feel as good as my rei pack.
Check out the load lifter straps. Try to make sure the pack is sitting vertical on your back (at least that works the best for me). I can't seam to get the vaper trail to go this. This is also where I think the stronger frame comes into play.
I am one of the 2 people I read about the the luxury lite pack did not work for. It put all the weight on my hips. More exactly the hips at my lower pack. It pushed so hard on my lower back that I could not use it. Felt great everywhere else. I tried it with and without the foam pads on the hipbelt. With no weigh and with varyiong weight. It just did not work at all for me.
It might be best to go to a big outfitter with all your gear and try on all their packs. Have them help you measure and adjust them.
Hammock engineer: The pain isn't lower back, for sure. It's mid-torso, and only on one side. I share your misgivings about the Luxury Lite -- for exactly the reasons you described. It puts 100% of the load at the hips... I have a hard time believing that will work for me.
Have you ever had back trouble in the past terrapin_too?
Well, now that I think of it... there was a broken scapula (shoulder blade) from a snowboard injury about six or seven years ago. Same side as the current back pain. I'd have thought that would be all healed & bygone, but maybe there's some residual. Growing old sucks.
Ditto, I would look at the fit and how much weight is carried on the hips versus shoulders. Personally, I am better regarding back pain while hiking and for at least a couple days afterward. My hip belt is the primary support for my internal frame pack, with shoulder straps primarily used to avoid side shifting and other movement.
That's my experience also. I've been bothered with back pain off and on for decades -- but never while backpacking. I've had the impression that my pack served as a brace that prevented pain from developing, but that's pure speculation on my part.
Since retiring 16 years ago, I've become more physically active and my back pain has pretty much disappeared.
Weight doesn't seem to make much difference. My pack rarely is less than 35 pounds and once after being tempted by a trailside supermarket on the AT weighed in at 55#.
Weary