Backpacking Seminar for Boy Scout Leaders [Archive]

trippclark

01-09-2007, 17:23

I have been asked to present a one hour (yeah, I know, not nearly enough time) introduction to backpacking for Boy Scout adult leaders next Saturday. I plan to go over all of the predictable topics like planning & preparation, shelter & sleep systems, rain protection options and importance, food & cooking systems, water, clothing & footwear, packs (selection, sizing), etc. I'll also talk about destinations in the area. For our area, the most common destinations are the FHT, the AT, and the Palmetto Trail.

One thing that I want to spend some time with - because I think that it is important - I am calling "Boy Scouts and the Backpacking Community." In this section of the seminar I plan to emphasize that sometimes Scout groups get bad reputation amongst the backpacking community because of the actions of a few. I want to emphasize a few things that they should do with their group to better "fit in" with what is accepted within the backpacking community. Some of these include:

1) Group Size - As practically as possible given 2-deep adult leadership requirements, divide the group into smaller groups (4 - 6 ideally). Large groups suck up resources at campsites, shelters, etc.

2) Noise - Keep it down, especially after dark. Don't stay up all night burning a campfire and making a bunch of noise, especially when others are near.

3) Resources / Shelter - Related to #1, but regardless of group size be conscious of limited resources and needs of other hikers.

4) Practice Leave No Trace - this catches a lot, and because of time limitations I'll really have to just hit the highlights

5) Trail Etiquette - Same as #4 above

So I am interested in any other suggestions that you might have for things to include - especially under the topic of "Boy Scouts and the Backpacking Community." I want to encourage these leaders to take their Scouts backpacking, but to do so responsibly so that their Troop is not thought of as one of THOSE groups.

Thanks!

chknfngrs

01-09-2007, 17:47

I'm glad you get this opportunity. Speaking to the adults should help get them educated. I think you should shift your focus from gear to LNT. Regarding gear, they won't listen. They will still carry everything under the sink with them. They have several publications, including merit badge books, handbooks, etc. that have full disclosure of gear lists. You can never truly reach them if they don't want to be reached, and as long as they have their guidebooks, they'll carry the 5 pound sleeping back with them, and never ever never touch a down garment... Every encounter I've had with Scouts and leaders yielded minimal impact w/r/t gear.

I personally think if you make LNT/how outsiders perceive them your big schtick that you will better serve your adult leaders and their scouts... you'll arm them with the data they would need to provide Scouts with a better idea of how to carry themselves and extend to them the perception of "the outside world" a.k.a. backpacking community... Your etiquette idea, group size, etc. go hand/hand with the seven LNT principals.

PS- I've been around scouting from several angles, as one, as a leader, as an instructor, and as a retailer. The best way to show them what the Backpacking Community feels of the Boy Scouts; a la the notion that they represent something bigger than just them, etc...

jlb2012

01-09-2007, 17:52

One of the problems I see with scouts on the trail is the use of cotton clothing on cold/cool wet days - I would encourage some education for the leaders on how bad this is and how serious hypothermia is.

JimSproul

01-09-2007, 18:00

trippclark

01-09-2007, 18:10

Thanks. You are right, LNT is very important. I am a LNT "certified" instructor and do offer a several hour session to Scout Leaders in our council from time to time.

The topic that they gave me, as listed in the course description, is Backpacking: How To Do IT Without Killing Yourself." This certainly was not my title, but the literature had already been printed. Given this description, I think folks will expect some amount of gear talk, but you are right, the LNT and Trail Etiquette is really more important, in my opinion.

Thanks again for your input!

I'm glad you get this opportunity. Speaking to the adults should help get them educated. I think you should shift your focus from gear to LNT. Regarding gear, they won't listen. They will still carry everything under the sink with them. They have several publications, including merit badge books, handbooks, etc. that have full disclosure of gear lists. You can never truly reach them if they don't want to be reached, and as long as they have their guidebooks, they'll carry the 5 pound sleeping back with them, and never ever never touch a down garment... Every encounter I've had with Scouts and leaders yielded minimal impact w/r/t gear.

I personally think if you make LNT/how outsiders perceive them your big schtick that you will better serve your adult leaders and their scouts... you'll arm them with the data they would need to provide Scouts with a better idea of how to carry themselves and extend to them the perception of "the outside world" a.k.a. backpacking community... Your etiquette idea, group size, etc. go hand/hand with the seven LNT principals.

PS- I've been around scouting from several angles, as one, as a leader, as an instructor, and as a retailer. The best way to show them what the Backpacking Community feels of the Boy Scouts; a la the notion that they represent something bigger than just them, etc...

trippclark

01-09-2007, 18:11

jesse

01-09-2007, 18:17

I think its great to get the Scouts into backpacking. We are taking our troop up to Tenn this weekend for a 2-3 mile overnight backing trip. I guess the one thing that annoys me the most about our boys is the noise. They never talk in a normal conversation. Its always shouting over each other.
One thing I would emphisise is to use an extra level of caution when they are 12 to 24 hours away from medical treatment, because most accidents occur when scouts are running, jumping and horseplaying.

trippclark

01-09-2007, 18:21

Good for you. Scouts today need more first hand information about camping and the backcountry than we realize or remember.

I would include a plug for Philmont when you talk about locations. It never hurts to get them thinking bigger

Yes, Philmont was my first real backpacking destination back in 1982. Our council has a very strong Philmont program. Each June we send at least 4 crews to Philmont.

I want to emphasize to the group, however, that Philmont is very different than backpacking in places like the AT and the FHT. Campsites and facilities at Philmont are designed for groups of 10 - 15. This is not the case on the AT (at least not with the 580 miles I have experienced). Most AT campsites are more suited for 1 - 3 tents, and for LNT concerns of stretching your impact beyond the already impacted site, it is not responsible, IMHO, to take large groups of 12 or more Scouts out on the AT, for the same section. You can, however, split a group up and cover adjacent sections or even the same section in opposite directions. Even though some AT shelters can accomodate 12 or more people, I don't feel that it is good to bring a troop of 10 or 12 or more Scouts into a shelter and take over all of the resources.

Bottom line difference, Philmont is a Scouting paradise and designed for larger Scout groups. AT, FHT, and most other trails that I am aware of are designed for smaller groups, and Scouts should adapt to this.

trippclark

01-09-2007, 18:22

One thing I would emphisise is to use an extra level of caution when they are 12 to 24 hours away from medical treatment, because most accidents occur when scouts are running, jumping and horseplaying.

Great point. I did not have this in my outline, but will add it now.

chknfngrs

01-09-2007, 19:09

Noise level has to be the biggest catch22. most scouts are just excited to get out in the woods and way from their folks. It's hard to tell them to contain themselves. I would suggest continued development of the loud crowd, and insist that they are giving themselves a bad name. I know when I was a kid and loud, I never wanted to be called "The Problem". Holding a carrot in front of them, like a Philmont, could help.

I guess another theme you could incorporate for your leaders would be trail maintenence? If the scouts learn how much time and effort that goes into a footpath or shelter, they may perhaps develop a stronger appreciation for them and be less destructive/reduce their reputation as the evil one's.

MOWGLI

01-09-2007, 19:25

One thing that I want to spend some time with - because I think that it is important - I am calling "Boy Scouts and the Backpacking Community." In this section of the seminar I plan to emphasize that sometimes Scout groups get bad reputation amongst the backpacking community because of the actions of a few.

I have rarely had problems with scouts. Here's an example for you however. This happened on the John Muir Trail this summer.

After a loooong 18 mile day, my partner (who is an Eagle Scout) and I found a nice campsite. We were joined by several others who tented nearby. There was plenty of fuel for a fire, but we were over 10,000', and fires in Kings Canyon National Park (and all along the JMT) are prohibited over 10,000'.

Lo & behold, near dusk a scout troop comes into the area and tents about 100 yards away. Sometime around 10 PM I got up to take a leak, and noticed that the Scouts had a roaring bonfire going. They were fairly quiet, but that didn't change the fact that they were breaking the rules in a tinder dry area.

There were probably 3 adult leaders in this group. I refrained from walking over there and telling them what they obviously already knew. In order to get a backcountry permit, you have to agree to follow the regs, including fire regs. The trails are also CLEARLY marked when you reach 10,000', and they say NO FIRES BEYOND THIS POINT.

It is so important for the adults to set a good example for these young folks. If they are taught at a young age to pick & choose the rules they are to follow - they will cause a lifetime of problems.

Good luck!! And thanks for doing this.

Rain Man

01-09-2007, 19:39

I agree with Mowgli. I've had few problems with Scouts, but on a couple of occasions (well, maybe more actually) have run into Scout groups in which "honor" seemed lacking, especially when it comes to following the rules.

Whether it's wilderness campfires (as Mowgli's experience), or having large groups when trailhead signs plainly say limit groups to 10, or outright lying about shelter reservations (as a ridgerunner confirmed after my night at an over-crowded shelter in the Smokies), it doesn't take much "rationalization" by Scout leaders to leave a long-lasting impression of their honor (or lack thereof) in the minds of fellow hikers. It even gets discussed on web forums, so that many more people some times learn of each such instance. A la, here.

Not running down the Scouts, just answering your question about important issues to cover with Scout leaders, who should be setting the highest example. Keep it high.

Enjoy your presentation!

Rain:sunMan

.

cannonball

01-09-2007, 19:47

gsingjane

01-09-2007, 19:51

Based on my experience with my two Boy Scout sons, I think many non-Scout-experienced adults are surprised to find how purely destructive the boys can be in the outdoors if they aren't properly supervised. The biggest hazard that I know of comes from the ding-dang FIRES... my sons have reported kids throwing in gasoline, kerosene, stove fuel, bug spray, plastic cutlery, books, magazines, you name it, they'll burn it. And then, if the flames get high enough, have a contest jumping over the firepit. I've heard of canoes and rowboats being set ablaze (or the kids trying to), of kids throwing rocks at animals, and another instance involving an animal and fire that I won't discuss because it's too awful and I don't want to wreck everyone's day.

Where were the leaders during all this? Seated at a nearby picnic table, gossiping or talking on the cellphone, or snoozing in the tents, or even, sometimes, out in the camp parking lot where somebody had remembered to bring a few cold ones and stash them in the trunk.

Supervision, supervision, supervision. The leaders have to be on top of the boys ALL the time they're out there. Not to be sexist about this, but some boys can have the most remarkably destructive impulses regarding nature and the things in it, and if they're permitted to run "wild" (literally) everybody, and everyything, around them suffers for it.

I am not against the Boy Scout program ... there are lots of things I'd change about it, but overall, both my boys have treasured their Scout experience. They're both even headed to the Naval Academy Jamboree this very weekend! But if I were advising BSA leaders, man, I'd start out with some real leadership basics and hammer home the fact that they are responsible for these boys' conduct - which in many cases will deteriorate hideously if they're left to their own devices.

Jane in CT

trippclark

01-09-2007, 20:31

Would this seminar be part of a woodbadge course?

Philmont is a nice trip to be sure but camp Daniel boone offers a variety of treks from one to two weeks at a time on the at, bm, and other trails in North Carolina for a fraction of the cost it takes to go to Philmont.

No this is part of a local course called "University of Scouting." It is hosted by and held on the local University campus in their facilities. We do have a Woodbadge course coming up later this year though.

Yes, I am familiar with CDB and their offerings. They are in our same Section / Area (BSA organizational unit above the council but below the Region) and I have had several friends in that council for many years. I have been to CDB for OA Section Conclaves 3 or 4 times and have visited other weekend events there. I have never attended their summer camp progra, however, but you are right, they do take advantage of their location adjacent to the National Forest and offer some very nice high adventure options.

Jim Adams

01-09-2007, 20:36

Trippclark,
Thank goodness you are getting the chance to do this! Most of the "leaders" in my area don't have a clue and will not listen to anyone who is not a scout.
I attempted to get 12 early stage hypothermic scouts off of a local mountain trail at 28* and heavy wet falling snow. They were all in jeans and cotton T shirts with cotton hoodies and soaked. The "leaders" told me to mind my own business that they would never take my advice and that obviously I was not a scout as I was so stupid for hiking in shorts with long underware. They hiked 5 miles in that weather and arrived at the shelters after dark and with uncontrollable shivering. !/2 were evacuated by the Rangers.
Senario #2. A 10 year old scout with a severely over loaded pack hanging from his shoulders with the waist belt around the top of his legs. I stopped him and attempted to adjust his pack. He was scoulded by the "leaders" for talking to a stranger. He told the #1 "leader that he could not hike like that and it hurt too much. The "leader told him "backpacking is supposed to hurt"! They all walked on down the trail.
I wonder how many of these boys ever backpacked again?
Speak well, out sport needs you!
THANKS,
geek

The Weasel

01-09-2007, 20:46

Jim:

Several things, from leading Scout "High Adventure" trips for a long time:

(1) Emphasize the "Tour Permit" process. Many leaders don't know about it. One of its components is to be aware of rules for places where people will stay, which will help on such things as shelter use, campfires, and more.

(2) Scout backpacking simply can't have more than 3 adults and 7 youth, and you have to tell leaders (many of whom will insist that they should go with their sons) that. Groups larger than that are bad (see posts above), and with more than 3 adults (yes, I know 2 is a minimum) lead to it not being a "youth" trip.

(3) Emphasize youth leadership rather than adult leadership. If Scouts know the rules, and that they are expected to follow them (and that they can insist the adults will), they are empowered and will do so. Usually, it's the adults who want the "ol' time campfire." Scouts will proudly insist on not having one if they know they're expected to be that way. \

(4) If you're familiar with Scouting, weave in parts of the Scout Law and Motto, such as what 'being prepared' means, and how 'courteous', 'helpful' and 'thrifty' relate to being around others and protecting the environment.

(5) Frankly, minimize the "equipment" aspect: Provide some training on lightweight packing, and emphasize the "30% rule" (pack/body weight), whcih is why some kids have way to much gear. Spend real time on footwear and footcare.

The Weasel

trippclark

01-09-2007, 21:01

Thank goodness you are getting the chance to do this! Most of the "leaders" in my area don't have a clue and will not listen to anyone who is not a scout.

Geek,

Fortunately this is an advantage that I have. I am not certain how many of the leaders in this group I will know, but most will know me or know of me. I am an Eagle Scout with 30+ years of Scouting, most in this council. I have worked 11 summers onj the summer camp staff here, 5 years as a District Executive in the late 80's and early 90's, and am presently am Lodge Adviser for the Order of the Arrow lodge; a position I have held for the past 10 years. In reality, this in itself gives me no significant knowledge or skills related to this course, but it does (I hope) give me some credibility with the audience. I can definitely talk the talk in the Scouting circles. I just hope that my backpacking experiences - mostly on the AT - and my research/reading will allow me to teach the most important information in my brief one hour. I also hope that I can inspire leaders who are not presently including backpacking in their outdoor program to do so. I know that when I was a youth in a troop almost all of our camping was "car camping." I think that our leaders were intimidated by backpacking so we did not do it (much). I find that backpacking is so much more of a rich experience. I want more youth to experience it - but experience it properly.

Tripp

SteveJ

01-09-2007, 22:41

I have been asked to present a one hour (yeah, I know, not nearly enough time) introduction to backpacking for Boy Scout adult leaders next Saturday. clip,,,
One thing that I want to spend some time with - because I think that it is important - I am calling "Boy Scouts and the Backpacking Community." clip

What a great opp'ty, Trippclark! First, I agree with all the other suggestions you've gotten, so not sure how much I have to add, but I'll try...

I'm a lightweight backpacker (don't think I'll ever be ul..), and the committee chair of a troop in the Atlanta area. If I were doing this presentation, I would start with the Scout Oath and Law, and the Outdoor Code. From there you can talk about how scouting groups are often viewed - I might even start with some of the bad examples that have been cited here.

I'd talk about how we in Scouting often take "Be Prepared" to the extreme in backpacking and make this a miserable experience for our boys. I did a presentation to our new scout parents last night about backpacking, and emphasized lightweight gear, and how they should attempt to keep their sons' pack weight under 20% of body weight... Then move into a gear discussion, which would be on topic with the announced topic...

Thanks for doing this!

Steve

Jack Tarlin

01-09-2007, 22:55

bobgessner57

01-09-2007, 23:04

JimM

01-09-2007, 23:40

Geek,

Fortunately this is an advantage that I have. I am not certain how many of the leaders in this group I will know, but most will know me or know of me. I am an Eagle Scout with 30+ years of Scouting, most in this council. I have worked 11 summers onj the summer camp staff here, 5 years as a District Executive in the late 80's and early 90's, and am presently am Lodge Adviser for the Order of the Arrow lodge; a position I have held for the past 10 years. In reality, this in itself gives me no significant knowledge or skills related to this course, but it does (I hope) give me some credibility with the audience. I can definitely talk the talk in the Scouting circles. I just hope that my backpacking experiences - mostly on the AT - and my research/reading will allow me to teach the most important information in my brief one hour. I also hope that I can inspire leaders who are not presently including backpacking in their outdoor program to do so. I know that when I was a youth in a troop almost all of our camping was "car camping." I think that our leaders were intimidated by backpacking so we did not do it (much). I find that backpacking is so much more of a rich experience. I want more youth to experience it - but experience it properly.

Tripp
One of the most effective short presentations I remember came from a friend who is an active backpacker at a scout meeting about 10 years ago. Simply put, he brought his backpack to the meeting and unloaded it. He explained the gear he carried and why it worked for him. What he carried into the woods, he carried out. The time involved was about an hour.

I'm not sure of the long-term impact of this presentation on the kids, but I can tell you that it caught my attention. At the very least, it gave me a different frame of reference, and planted the seed to learn more. A lecture format would not have accomplished the same result.
Jim

ASUGrad

01-10-2007, 10:52

My experience with Scouting has led me to believe that parents will put kids in Scouts in hopes that it rehabilitates them. That almost never works. The most important rule for Scout hiking is "If you aren't going to obey the rules, don't go". Stay home and play on the Gamecube. Don't go into the woods looking to be entertained by something. There is no TV out there.
The most important rule for Scout leaders is "Idle hands are the Devil's workshop". If you stop hiking at 2PM, you will have trouble from 3PM to nightfall. Keep them moving, busy, productive, etc. If they aren't hiking, they need to be fixing the trail, looking for water, looking for emergency shelter, finding "lost" Scouts, whatever. If you let them get bored, they will burn or trash something.

trippclark

01-10-2007, 11:11

Thanks Jack. I think that I can include much of this when talking about Resources / Shelters. I have copied much of your post over to my outline.

Tripp

Great stuff, Tripp. I wish you could talk to EVERY group and not just this one.

You've got things pretty well covered in your first post.

A few things I'd emphasize:

*Shelters, unless they are really enormous ones, are NOT for groups. Scout
and youth groups should plan on tenting or tarping, preferably in "group"
sites/areas, so their size and subsequent noise doesn't take over the shelter
or site which others are attempting to enjoy.

*Keep fires to a reasonable, i.e. minimal size. Scouts should collect the right
wood, and not that much of it. They need enough to build a campfire, not
enough to roast Jeanne D'Arc.

*Address the sanitation issue. I.e. one doesn't piss in the back of the
shelter; one goes a bit further away to do other things; one buries one's
business, etc.

*Wiser use of the water source, i.e. don't bathe in it, wash dishes in it, etc.

*Most important: PACK OUT YOUR STUFF and also pack out other people's.
Bringing along a garbage bag and policing up the shelter, campsites, and
especially, the fire ring, will make you a lot of friends, and is a great thing to
teach the kids.

Anyway, thanx for doing this; let us know how it goes.

trippclark

01-10-2007, 11:15

Tripp:

In line with the course title; hydration, hydration, hydration. It seems that so many of the problems one can encounter with managing a youth trek have to do with lack of hydration. Aches, pains, lassitude, hyper and hypothermia. etc can all wreck even the best laid plans and the probability of any of these problems can be reduced with proper hydration.

Good luck, it is a darn sight easier to teach the boys than the adults.

Good point about hydration. I think that even I - who knows better - sometimes fail to properly hydrate (especially in cooler weather).

Oh, and you are right that sometimes the adults are more stubborn and difficult to teach.

Monkeyboy

01-10-2007, 15:04

Most important thing I have learned with today's youth is the necessity of wearing proper footwear.

Kids today love Converse and Vans....flat soled shoes with no arch support.

Biggest complaints of blisters and sore feet, ankles, calves, etc...come from boys wearing tennis shoes.

trippclark

02-06-2007, 12:35

Anyway, thanx for doing this; let us know how it goes.

Jack and a few others asked that I report how this turned out. I am sure some folks just said this to be kind, but a few may have a real interest, so here it goes . . .

I had two training courses to teach that day and both were one hour. The first session was "The Order of the Arrow and Your Troop." The Order of the Arrow (OA) is Scouting's National Honor Society. I have been involved with the OA for 27 years including 2 terms as lodge chief (top youth position at the council level), a couple of years as Staff Adviser, and now 10 years as Lodge Adviser. This was a session that I could almost do in my sleep. It went very well and finished exactly on-time.

The backpacking session was next. I was much less pleased with it even though I spent many more hours prepping for it. The audience and interest level was great. There was literally standing room only as all the desks in the classroom were filled and a few folks were watching in from the doorway. There were good questions and genuine interest. My problem was time. One hour was not nearly enough to cover this topic. I was able to cover quite well what I felt was most important . . . trail etiquette, importance of LNT (without training on LNT itself which takes even longer), impressions that some have of Scouts in the backcountry and how to not add to some negative impressions, etc. However, when we got into gear and techniques that is when the clock flew! My hour expired when I had covered less than half of my prepared notes. Some pretty important stuff was not even touched on.

Afterwards I talked with the person who taught this topic last year and he had the same issue. I approached the council chairperson for this event in writing after the training. I offered to conduct the training next year but recommended that it either be expanded to a two or three hour slot or that it not be offered in that venue if only an hour can be devoted. I believe that having seen the time dilema two years in a row with two different instructors that my suggestion will probably go through. So next year I will probably be at it again, with a new group of leaders and more time to teach.

It ought to be fun!

Mags

02-06-2007, 13:30

The biggest hazard that I know of comes from the ding-dang FIRES... my sons have reported kids throwing in gasoline, kerosene, stove fuel, bug spray, plastic cutlery, books, magazines, you name it, they'll burn it. And then, if the flames get high enough, have a contest jumping over the firepit.

Not much has changed in 20 yrs it seems. :-) When I was a boyscout, much of the same hijinks were going on. I am sure my Dad's generation did equally dumb things, too!

Something about 12 yr old boys and exploding material seems to go together! (We used to call Coleman Fuel "Magic boyscout water". :) )

Naturally, if the scout master (Mr. Johnson) was around, we would NEVER do that. As soon as Mr. Johnson went away...out came the bug spray to make flamethrowers. Yeah..we were pretty stupid. ;)

Nowadays, I still love a good campfire on "social backpacks". Being a mature, levelheaded adult (ha!), I keep it small and to less impacted areas well below treeline. Instead of throwing flamables into the fire, I know drink cheap boxed wine. I am an adult after all. ;)

Mags

02-06-2007, 13:38

I do not know the income level of the Scouts (or rather their families) you are dealing with, but one concern parents may have is the cost of the gear.

I suspect many parents outfit their kids in blue jeans, cotton sweatshirts and less-than-stable "fashion" sneakers is partially because it is what they have to use (without spending money) as much as not knowing better.

I know from personal experience that sometimes money can be tight for young families and that the thought of buying $50 "tech pants" just won't fly! (Sorry Paul, but, you know..we'd actually like to pay for your two other brother's cold medicine this week. ;) )

A brief synopsis of how to outfit junior with items they may already have in their closest may be useful (e.g. wind pants, a synthetic or wool sweater, a simple rain coat). There are several backpacking on the cheap articles that have been done before on WB that may be useful.

RockyBob

02-06-2007, 13:41

Great stuff, Tripp. I wish you could talk to EVERY group and not just this one.

You've got things pretty well covered in your first post.

A few things I'd emphasize:

*Shelters, unless they are really enormous ones, are NOT for groups. Scout
and youth groups should plan on tenting or tarping, preferably in "group"
sites/areas, so their size and subsequent noise doesn't take over the shelter
or site which others are attempting to enjoy.

*Keep fires to a reasonable, i.e. minimal size. Scouts should collect the right
wood, and not that much of it. They need enough to build a campfire, not
enough to roast Jeanne D'Arc.

*Address the sanitation issue. I.e. one doesn't piss in the back of the
shelter; one goes a bit further away to do other things; one buries one's
business, etc.

*Wiser use of the water source, i.e. don't bathe in it, wash dishes in it, etc.

*Most important: PACK OUT YOUR STUFF and also pack out other people's.
Bringing along a garbage bag and policing up the shelter, campsites, and
especially, the fire ring, will make you a lot of friends, and is a great thing to
teach the kids.

Anyway, thanx for doing this; let us know how it goes.

Great Job Tripp

1. Splitting the troop into smaller groups is a key. We do that with our troop backpacking trips, around 6-8 boys per group. Yes, that does require more adult participation because you have to meet the 2 deep leadership requirement.
2. Jack hit the nail on the head with his comments. These are topics I find that have to be addressed on a continuous basis.
3. Tell them that not to, no matter what Mom says, pack their whole closet or dresser. I have seen to many young scouts trying to enjoy a hike, with a severly overweight backpack. Usually some of the older scouts or leaders end up carrying two packs by the end of the day.

The Weasel

02-06-2007, 16:38

. Some pretty important stuff was not even touched on.

It ought to be fun!

You might offer to do a very condensed version of what was left out at District Roundtables, or perhaps at District Camporees. It's also possible to get a video camera, do the whole thing without questions, and put it up on your council's website. A "prerequisite" for the next time would be for the U of S registrants for your course then to watch the video, much as is done for Youth Protection Training. That would let you do a short intro at the "live" course and take more question time.

Remember, it only takes an hour a week.

The Weasel
<--www Chipewa Lodge #29 --<

booney_1

02-07-2007, 10:31

trippclark

02-07-2007, 10:41

You might offer to do a very condensed version of what was left out at District Roundtables, or perhaps at District Camporees. It's also possible to get a video camera, do the whole thing without questions, and put it up on your council's website. A "prerequisite" for the next time would be for the U of S registrants for your course then to watch the video, much as is done for Youth Protection Training. That would let you do a short intro at the "live" course and take more question time.

Remember, it only takes an hour a week.

The Weasel
<--www Chipewa Lodge #29 --<

Good suggestions . . . and, oh yeah, like all other Scouters I long ago passed the "one hour a week" mark! :D

trippclark

02-07-2007, 10:43

I am also a boy scout leader...who backpacks. I've found that no matter how much you talk to them...you need to have a shake down night before the trip. Either the scouts or the parents(Moms!) will have included many extra things that are not needed. Some of these scouts are small and carrying a heavy pack ruins the trip.

:sun

You are absolutely correct. Anytime I have taken a troop backpacking (or any other Scout group for which this was possible) I have insisted on a pre-hike shakedown. It is extremely valuable.

wpbucher

02-07-2007, 10:50

These links might be helpful:

http://scoutmaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/scouts_and_backpacking/index.html

http://scoutmaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/01/backpacking_gea.html

latte

02-07-2007, 12:46

I run our backpacking program for our troop. Our class is broken into 8 one hour sessions, all with a different topic. We discuss proper clothing and packs with the parents and scouts on the first session. Usually by class 8 they have some or all of what they need. We have a LNT certified trainer give the LNT portion of our class. He is also part of our usual camp out group, so the boys can't get away with anything! After the 8 weeks of class, the boys go out for a "shake down camp out" in which we sort out many problems ahead of time. We are going to the AT in April, however, the boys now have 4 trips under their belts, so they can be more prepared for the 6 days without "civilization".

Our boys love campfires. It's hard to make them understand that you don't need one. However, they have never been faced with the total exaustion that the AT can offer. They follow strict LNT rules for fires, and we never have one if there is no fire ring. Also, we strictly enforce fire safety. If they are acting inappropriately with/near a fire, they are banned from the area. That usually fixes the problem.

We also have strict adult supervision. We are always with the boys. However, teaching and discipline comes first from the boys to each other. We try our best to let the boys sort their problems out first, unless we see a safety violation. No electronics are allowed to be used, even for us, unless approved ahead of time.

We show them how to pack, adjust packs, and have fun. Backpacking shouldn't be a painful experience.