View Full Version : Supported section hike - March 2007 (open invitation)
warren doyle
01-15-2007, 15:31
Terry and I will be doing the section hike described below. We will be day hiking using our cargo van to carry our food/gear. We will hike regardless of weather conditions following the schedule diligently. We plan to camp near the road crossings, only going into town once for dinner/resupply (Hiawassee)*.
Both thru- and section-hikers interested in this type of hiking are invited to come along. Class of 2007 thru-hikers would have to have day packs (the van would carry your backpacks) which we would then mail back to your home when we leave around the Tellico Gap/Wesser area**.
There would be no expected payments for this service. No alcohol, smoking, illegal drugs, pets or blue-blazing allowed.
Contact me through my e-mail below (not this website) if you are interested.
Section-Hike - Springer-Tellico Gap/Wesser March 9-16, 2007
Day/date Destination Miles
Friday 3/9 (meet at USFS#42 parking lot at 6am)Springer to Woody Gap 20.8
Saturday 3/10 Woody Gap to Hog Pen Gap 17.0
Sunday 3/11 Hog Pen Gap to Unicoi Gap 13.6
Monday 3/12 Unicoi Gap to Dicks Creek Gap* 16.1
Tuesday 3/13 Dicks Creek Gap to Deep Gap 15.6
Wednesday 3/14 Deep Gap to Rock Gap 20.7
Thursday 3/15 Rock Gap to Wayah Bald 13.8
Fruiday 3/16 Wayah Bald to Wesser** 17.2
Happy trails!
RiverWarriorPJ
01-16-2007, 08:43
"No alcohol, smoking, illegal drugs, pets or blue-blazing allowed"..??
...Sounds like fun......lol.....
z
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Gray Blazer
01-16-2007, 10:41
At that rate, you could finish the trail in about 72-75 days. Not bad.
minnesotasmith
01-16-2007, 11:07
No blue-blazing allowed
That's not really the proper business of anyone but the hiker in question. As long as a hiker is being polite, pays what is appropriate, doesn't cause problems, is on time for dropoff and pickup, etc., I can't see that you'd be entitled to a publicly-expressed opinion as to which exact trail route a hiker followed on a given day. HYOH.
Aw, c'mon MS. It's his offer. He can phrase the conditions any way he likes. Those not interested could simply not take him up on his offer. Everybody stays happy.:cool:
Alligator
01-16-2007, 12:06
It sounds like Warren is offering to do this for free.
There would be no expected payments for this service.
Unless he means for mailing the backpacks back?
At that rate, you could finish the trail in about 72-75 days. Not bad.
A 20-mile per day pace finishes in about 109 days. The pace of this hike is considerably slower than 20 miles per day.
Well if the pace posted by warren is what you do "starting out of the gate", presumably you'll get faster as you go along, and there are some easy sections where you could do more miles...
It's a good pace but it's slackpacking. Nice light day packs!
minnesotasmith
01-16-2007, 13:09
Aw, c'mon MS. It's his offer. He can phrase the conditions any way he likes. Those not interested could simply not take him up on his offer. Everybody stays happy.:cool:
What happens if someone along for the day decides on the spot for whatever reason to blueblaze part of the day, say to check out a view, or BC they pulled a muscle and want an easier walk the rest of the day? Does Warren say "F you, you're not really a hiker", and refuse to give them a ride back? This just smells IMO.
BTW, I did my thru pretty darned pure WRT following the white blazes. I just respect the right of other hikers to H their OHs.
Lone Wolf
01-16-2007, 13:15
Warren is inviting you on a trip/hike of his. If you don't like his conditions, don't hike with him. If you want to hike your own hike, then don't participate in this hike. It's simple.
Boston is right on. J. Tarlin will log on later and give his professional opinion I'm sure. He's a staunch Warren supporter.:)
minnesotasmith
01-16-2007, 13:20
Boston is right on. J. Tarlin will log on later and give his professional opinion I'm sure. He's a staunch Warren supporter.:)
Blow an ankle or get blisters, take an easier route to the pickup point, and get left behind?? That's just not reasonable IMO.
Alligator
01-16-2007, 13:22
Especially if it's free and his van:).
Lone Wolf
01-16-2007, 13:24
Blow an ankle or get blisters, take an easier route to the pickup point, and get left behind?? That's just not reasonable IMO.
i highly doubt warren is going to refuse a person a ride due to injury/illness.
minnesotasmith
01-16-2007, 13:25
Especially if it's free and his van:).
It should be possible to rely upon him.
Alligator
01-16-2007, 13:29
It should be possible to rely upon him.I was posting while you were and mine came in after. I agree with LW about injuries.
It should be possible to rely upon him.
Did Warren actually say he would leave someone stranded in the woods if he or she blue-blazed? Don't think so, and don't think he would.
But as the organizer he has a right to fashion this event the way he sees fit, and maybe he would be less than enthusiastic about taking a blue blazer out the NEXT day. Since he's made his position on blue blazing clear in advance, that seems a reasonable outcome...perhaps putting a blue-blazer on his way to the nearest town. Come to think of it, that would be a reasonable solution for someone who got injured, too.
Gray Blazer
01-16-2007, 13:38
A 20-mile per day pace finishes in about 109 days. The pace of this hike is considerably slower than 20 miles per day.My math musta been messed up.
Gray Blazer
01-16-2007, 13:42
My math musta been messed up.
Yeah, if you go about 30.something a day you could do it in 72 days.:o
D'Artagnan
01-16-2007, 13:48
Warren is inviting you on a trip/hike of his. If you don't like his conditions, don't hike with him. If you want to hike your own hike, then don't participate in this hike. It's simple.
I agree. Sounds like a nice offer. Why gripe about it if you're not even planning to participate?
warren doyle
01-16-2007, 13:52
1) I don't swear.
2) The schedule is basically the first week of the circle expedition's schedule. We do the whole trail in 126-127 days.
3) This thread is definitely exposing some interesting comments. One of these posters even went so far to suggest (on another thread) that I should be banished from the trail.
4) There might be some people out there who would want to hike like this.
It is not for everyone. This invitation is to those few, not the others.
well the 20 miles for the first day will probably filter out most people who are not already in hiking shape
warren doyle
01-16-2007, 16:48
12 hours of daylight divided into 20 miles is 1.7 mph (with a daypack).
The age range in the seven expeditions was from 14 y.o. to 68 y.o.
This mph pace (1.7) should be doable by anyone who plans to backpack the entire AT in 5-6 months.
Interesting offer, Warren, and I can't say I'm surprised at some of the replies. Some people don't seem to get what your kind of hiking is all about, still.
As a practical matter, where would participating hikers camp each night? At road crossings?
If I weren't a working stiff, Warren, I'd like to hike with you. The idea of doing those kinda miles, straight out of the gate, with a light pack... makes me smile. :)
But there's this little matter of the job. Schedules. Dang. Now, if you and your team and van are free around August or September, in the mid-Atlantic region, I have this little trek in mind....
minnesotasmith
01-17-2007, 10:35
Interesting offer, Warren, and I can't say I'm surprised at some of the replies. Some people don't seem to get what your kind of hiking is all about, still.
Warren's "style of hiking" has resulted in him and his groupies being permanently banned from Kincora hostel as undesirables, based solely upon their behavior. (This is not hearsay, but was told to me directly by Bob Peoples himself during my thruhike in 2006.) I have seen him post on WB advocating that hikers (clearly identifiable in appearance as hikers) in trail towns go uninvited into private places of business (restaurants) of which they are not customers and when no one is looking, taking goods that they neither paid for, had given to them, nor had yet been thrown away in the trash, which constitutes theft. I could go on, listing more examples from his past, but his history is consistent: he has established a public record of displaying Enron ethics, and this is a blot to have as part of our beloved Appalachian Trail community IMO.
This leaves aside my original point, which is that he would refuse to give a ride to a hiker solely due to disapproving of their mere choice of route during part of that day when he's giving rides to other hikers and has spare room in his vehicle. That's his right, to be sure. It's also the right of other members of the hiking community to disapprove of him and ostracize him, if their ethical standards of behavior exceed his behavior.
Some of us do get what Warren's kind of hiking is all about, SOG. I don't think you do. Either you didn't know about and wouldn't approve of the sorts of behavior he chooses to engage in, or you do approve of it. I sincerely hope it is the former.
This leaves aside my original point, which is that he would refuse to give a ride to a hiker solely due to disapproving of their mere choice of route during part of that day when he's giving rides to other hikers and has spare room in his vehicle. That's his right, to be sure. It's also the right of other members of the hiking community to disapprove of him and ostracize him, if their ethical standards of behavior exceed his behavior.No it isn't your right. If he wants to get a group of like minded people together to hike, you have no business telling them they are wrong for what type of hike they hike.
Just because he has "spare room in his vehicle" does not mean he has to take along everyone who wants to ride in it, any more than you have to fill your car with dogs because some hiker with a half dozen of them wants a ride and you have room in your car.
Give it a rest, MS. People are allowed to pick hiking companions for whatever reason: gender, age, hiking speed, time in towns, avoiding towns, drinking, not drinking, etc etc etc.
Lone Wolf
01-17-2007, 10:47
I have seen him post on WB advocating that hikers (clearly identifiable in appearance as hikers) in trail towns go uninvited into private places of business (restaurants) of which they are not customers and when no one is looking, taking goods that they neither paid for, had given to them, nor had yet been thrown away in the trash, which constitutes theft.
Please show me that post
saimyoji
01-17-2007, 11:11
Please show me that post
A quick search brought this up:
"in town- leftovers off of other people's tables."
Doesn't really explain the behavior, but its WDs words.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=25604&postcount=40
Lone Wolf
01-17-2007, 11:14
A quick search brought this up:
"in town- leftovers off of other people's tables."
Doesn't really explain the behavior, but its WDs words.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=25604&postcount=40
I've done that too. And will do it in the future. But he's not advocating that others do it.
dixicritter
01-17-2007, 11:27
This thread is getting WAY off topic, let's get back to the topic of the thread now please.
max patch
01-17-2007, 11:27
I disagree with just about everything that WD says and does, but in fairness to him he has stated in the past that he buys a meal first before he steals food from the restaurant. He also pays for the first movie at the theater and then steals the subsquent ones. It appears that the only thing he steals without making some type of initial payment is sneaking past toll booths to reach trailheads. I could be wrong but that is what I think WD has stated in the past.
D'Artagnan
01-17-2007, 11:41
Bleedin' Christ! If you want to accept Warren's offer and hike with him, then do it. If not, then move on. Why must every post the man makes be met with this same old crap? Makes me yearn for SORUCK.
warren doyle
01-17-2007, 12:05
Congratulations!
With your 'garbage' #28 post and your previous post recommending that I be banned from the trail, you have achieved the dubious distinction of being placed on my coveted internegator list (the first addition in over a year).
warren doyle
01-17-2007, 12:18
Q: As a practical matter, where would participating hikers camp each night? At road crossings?
A: At or within .5 miles of road crossings. This is not a backcountry camping experience. It is a highly task-oriented, low-cost, day-hiking experience of a section of trail. Camping at or near road crossings can give the hiker more daylight time to spend walking on the trail since it dramatically cuts the amount of time needed to drive to and from the trail every evening/morning.
Alligator
01-17-2007, 12:24
Warren, would you please clarify what I highlighted in post #6, and I guess now low-cost (above).
warren doyle
01-17-2007, 13:29
post#38 Warren, would you please clarify what I highlighted in post #6, and I guess now low-cost (above).
post #6 It sounds like Warren is offering to do this for free.
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Warren Doyle
There would be no expected payments for this service.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Unless he means for mailing the backpacks back?
1) There would be no fee for the actual hike.
2) Obviously, I would expect folks to cover postage expenses for my mailing their daypacks back home.
3) 'Low-cost' refers to non-hiking expenses such as hostel/motel/campground fees that would be avoided by our camping at or near road crossings. These expenses/costs would not involve a payment to me.
DawnTreader
01-17-2007, 13:40
This thread, in a nutshell, is why I hike alone...
Alligator
01-17-2007, 13:59
Sounds like a reasonable offer Warren. Enjoy.
This thread, in a nutshell, is why I hike alone...
I was hoping we could get everyone that's contributed together one day for a supported group day-hike.:D
Alligator
01-17-2007, 14:24
I was hoping we could get everyone that's contributed together one day for a supported group day-hike.:DMaybe just pass the keys in the middle;) .
troglobil
01-17-2007, 16:10
What is an internegator?
What is an internegator?
I had exactly the same question. I assume it means s***h***, given the context in which the term was used.
max patch
01-17-2007, 16:30
Its not my cup of tea but it is a nice gesture by WD. Hope anyone who joins in has a great time.
saimyoji
01-17-2007, 16:34
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=124662&postcount=11
A very creative word. This argument surrounding Warren seems to be regularly cyclical. Never know who is going to chime in. :rolleyes:
RE: my post earlier on Warren's food aqcuisition habits:
"Doesn't explain the behavior" by this I meant Warren didn't elaborate on the exact circumstances by which the leftovers were aqcuired; didn't mean to imply that he had to justify the behavior. I'll keep my personal feelings on this to myself for now. :cool:
Maybe just pass the keys in the middle;).
You think that would work? Could get ugly when the exchange occurs.:eek: While I have my own preferences, I'd hike with either group for a day.:)
Now let's return our attention to the hike Warren's proposed. I'm not proposing or discussing any more of my hypothetical hikes in this portion of cyberspace today.
Are there going to be any Condradancers on the hike?
Lone Wolf
01-17-2007, 17:58
what's a condradancer?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-17-2007, 18:01
::: bites LW on toes repeatedly to make him Contra Dance :::
Pacific Tortuga
01-17-2007, 18:02
Thats your poblem :)
::: bites LW on toes repeatedly to make him Contra Dance :::
Condrary to what you might believe, Lone Wolf doesn't condradance. He's a wallflower. :)
Lone Wolf
01-17-2007, 18:10
Condrary to what you might believe, Lone Wolf doesn't condradance. He's a wallflower. :)
correct. this wolf has 4 left paws.
The Solemates
01-17-2007, 18:10
Warren's "style of hiking" has resulted in him and his groupies being permanently banned from Kincora hostel as undesirables, based solely upon their behavior. (This is not hearsay, but was told to me directly by Bob Peoples himself during my thruhike in 2006.) I have seen him post on WB advocating that hikers (clearly identifiable in appearance as hikers) in trail towns go uninvited into private places of business (restaurants) of which they are not customers and when no one is looking, taking goods that they neither paid for, had given to them, nor had yet been thrown away in the trash, which constitutes theft. I could go on, listing more examples from his past, but his history is consistent: he has established a public record of displaying Enron ethics, and this is a blot to have as part of our beloved Appalachian Trail community IMO.
This leaves aside my original point, which is that he would refuse to give a ride to a hiker solely due to disapproving of their mere choice of route during part of that day when he's giving rides to other hikers and has spare room in his vehicle. That's his right, to be sure. It's also the right of other members of the hiking community to disapprove of him and ostracize him, if their ethical standards of behavior exceed his behavior.
Some of us do get what Warren's kind of hiking is all about, SOG. I don't think you do. Either you didn't know about and wouldn't approve of the sorts of behavior he chooses to engage in, or you do approve of it. I sincerely hope it is the former.
Sounds like we found Jack's evil twin! If I hadnt have looked at the poster, I would have sworn this was Jack talking!
Have fun hiking Warren.
Just curious...why mail the backpacks home rather than just pick them up at the end? Did I miss something?
correct. this wolf has 4 left paws.
But you hung out at the condradance at the ALDHA Gathering!
Just curious...why mail the backpacks home rather than just pick them up at the end? Did I miss something?
If you're thru-hiking, or continuing on a section hike with your full backpack, Warren will mail your daypack back home for you.
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2007, 18:45
Solemates:
Thanx for your most recent cheapshot in Post #56 above. Funny thing is, I haven't participated in this thread so far, nor did I have any interest in doing so, til Solemates' charming post.
Personally, I think anyone who wishes to do this hike with Mr. Doyle is more than welcome to do so. It's a matter of supreme indifference to me. Those who aren't interested are welcome to decline his kind offer. It's really a non-issue.
I happen to really enjoy this stretch of the Trail; were this not so, I don't suppose I'd have hiked it 11 times in the past 12 years. I'm not sure I'd enjoy doing this sort of big mileage here, nor would I particularly enjoy being forced to make camp so close to roads. But to each their own. Mr. Doyle has made a public offer; nothing more. It probably won't appeal to most folks, at least not those who enjoy backpacking, but then, that's not who it's aimed at.
One of the great things about the Trail is that HOW one hikes is pretty much up to the individual, and this, of course, is how it should be. It'd be pretty boring if everyone did exactly the same thing out there.
P.S. While it's magnanimous of Mr. Doyle to not charge for what is being offerred, it is hoped that participants volunteer to help with gas and other mutual expenses, but that of course is between them and Mr. Doyle. As we all know, services on the Trail for hikers cost money, and hikers should always be willing to do their bit; nobody is so special that they're entitled to hike for free. Taking advantage of the kindness of others is never OK.
I'm sure Mr. Doyle would agree with me.
DawnTreader
01-17-2007, 22:26
well said jack..
Thanks for the offer Warren..
minnesotasmith
01-18-2007, 03:27
Sounds like we found Jack's evil twin! If I hadnt have looked at the poster, I would have sworn this was Jack talking!
Have fun hiking Warren.
If my points are wrong IYO, feel free to list which ones, and to disprove them with logic applied to facts. Otherwise, you're in the same boat as Warren Doyle, apparently unable to say one thing substantive against them other than that he is made uncomfortable by his past being brought out into the open.
dixicritter
01-18-2007, 08:46
If my points are wrong IYO, feel free to list which ones, and to disprove them with logic applied to facts. Otherwise, you're in the same boat as Warren Doyle, apparently unable to say one thing substantive against them other than that he is made uncomfortable by his past being brought out into the open.
Minnesotasmith, I asked once on this thread that it be brought back on topic and others have complied with the request. Personal attacks such as this are against site rules. Warren Doyle's past is not the subject of this thread. Time to drop it. Thank you.
I think this is a great offer, Warren. If my husband's health is better, I'd love to join you and Terry in March. I've hiked this part already, but it sure would be great to be back on the trail again. Without my pack, I think I could even do the miles, albeit slowly.
warren doyle
01-18-2007, 11:18
max patch post #34: "I disagree with just about everything that WD says and does, but in fairness to him he has stated in the past that he buys a meal first before he steals food from the restaurant. He also pays for the first movie at the theater and then steals the subsquent ones. It appears that the only thing he steals without making some type of initial payment is sneaking past toll booths to reach trailheads. I could be wrong but that is what I think WD has stated in the past.
Clarification to #34
1) steals? how about this:before he 'gathers' leftover food from other people's tables. This is only done in non-AYCE dining establishments and only when I am on a long distance hike when I need the extra calories. As far as I know, there is no specific law saying such action is illegal, neither can I find it forbidden by any religious dogma (i.e., Ten Commandments) nor have I ever seen anything posted prohibiting it in said dining establishments. To rationalize this behavior, I ask myself a deep, philosophical question, "Is this uneaten leftover food going to go to the maggots or is it going to go to me?" The answer is easy since my primal instincts take over.
2) steals? only in a multiplex, corporate theatre (where the management feels that this action is not a big problem or they would just hire another person at minimum wage to prevent it from happening or else move their ticket-taker station to a more 'strategic' position for better 'surveillance') and only for movies that are not sold out (which is very rare). Movies are now run automatically by machines (not paid by the hour) even if there are no other people in the audience and we also 'leave no trace' (litter). Watching a movie eating leftover popcorn is a rare delight. Once again, there is no law saying that this action is illegal; I can find no religion doctrine that specifically forbids it; and, I have never seen a prohibition of this practice posted at the theatre or projected onto the screen with the other 'do nots' (i.e. turn off your cellphones).
The deep philosophical question I ask myself to rationalize this particular action is "Do I have less money in my wallet, or credit card balance, when I walk out of this theatre than when I walked into it." The answer, which always eases my conscience, is Yes.
3) steals? how about 'avoids'
4) sneaking past toll booths? actually it is walking past open and closed gatehouses that are on roads that lead to trail crossings (which is legal and free) or driving past closed gatehouses (i.e. National Parks usually after 10-11pm and before 7am) or gates that are open but it is too early for the gatekeepers to be awake but not for the loggers and their trucks.
troglobil #44 Q: What is an internegator?
A: (in addition to the previous definition) An internegator is also an internet poster (usually in the minority) who seems to be on a misguided vendetta against a particular person(s) who thinks and acts differently then they do and the internegator consistently uses either distorted truths or falsehoods as a basis of support for their argument. They can be relentless almost to a point of obsession to deride and discredit at the mere sight of one's name and their hypercritical posts, and name-calling, can be so repetitive that it frustrates other more well-meaning travelers/observers (usually the majority) who are also on the same information superhighway.
Boston #45 Q: Is food provided or are hikers expected to bring their own and cook for themselves?
A: (thanks for an easy one and for one that is on-topic) Hikers are expected to bring their own food and cook for themselves. Of course, going with food that doesn't have to be cooked is an option. Some limited food can be obtained from Neels Gap in the early afternoon on the second day and we will probably go into Hiawassee for supper at the end of the fourth day.
Bilko #50 Q: Are there going to be any Condradancers on the hike?
A: (another easy one) First of all, I think you mean contradancers. As of now, at least two (my wife, Terry, and I).
warren doyle
01-18-2007, 11:27
Red Hat post: "Without my pack, I think I could even do the miles, albeit slowly."
That is a correct assumption. One can usually do more miles (albeit with longer walking hours) with a lighter pack and a slower pace (over the long term) than a person with a heavier pack and a faster pace (over the long term).
In March, we will have about 12 hours of daylight. A 20-mile day is about 1.7 mph which is physically doable for most normally conditioned people and if they are content/happy to walk all day.<!-- / message -->
It's a very kind offer Mr. Doyle. If it were the first week in April, I might have taken you up on it. Those that have to bring up the past, which has absolutely nothing to do with the present offer, ought to be ashamed of themselves. And having met Mr. Peoples, I'm sure he would not want what he said in a private conversation to be plastered all over this forum. I was appalled when I read that post. And that's all I have to say about that.
Alligator
01-18-2007, 19:15
Dixicritter asked that posters please remain on topic. Please do. Thank you.
.........................
Alligator
01-19-2007, 11:42
In case anyone was wondering there is a moderator for this forum and that moderator is me. It is supposed to be a cushy housekeeper position with all the extensive perks that come with being a mod—vacation house, company vehicle, personal secretary, digital wireless connection--with limited need to handle daily interaction. Anyway, while Dixi made the original two requests to stay on topic, it was my call to pull several posts from this thread. The moderation implemented here was a compromise between enforcing various parts of the user agreement (see off-topic, hijack, personal attack vs. illegal acts). For this case, the solution reflects admin’s priority in ending repeated feuding on this most excellent site. Thank you.
In case anyone was wondering there is a moderator for this forum and that moderator is me. It is supposed to be a cushy housekeeper position with all the extensive perks that come with being a mod—vacation house, company vehicle, personal secretary, digital wireless connection--with limited need to handle daily interaction. Anyway, while Dixi made the original two requests to stay on topic, it was my call to pull several posts from this thread. The moderation implemented here was a compromise between enforcing various parts of the user agreement (see off-topic, hijack, personal attack vs. illegal acts). For this case, the solution reflects admin’s priority in ending repeated feuding on this most excellent site. Thank you.Thank you. You are doing a fine job, allowing people to be frisky but not demeaning.