View Full Version : Frequency of Partying At Shelters
2009ThruHiker
01-15-2007, 20:40
OK, I'm reading the trail journal "Then The Hail Came" (very good by the way, check it out by Googling the title) and I've stumbled upon some rather interesting information I haven't put much thought into untii now: it appears there is a good deal of partying, i.e. getting high and drinking, that takes place at the shelters frequently in this journal. (Is that a run-on sentence or what???)
So my question is this: Is this a common occurence at the shelters along the trail? I want desperately to thru-hike in 2009, and of course meet new people, but the thought of the opportunity to get high is bothering me, because it was a big problem during much of my life. I need to know what to prepare myself for mentally: I haven't read of this in other books/journals until now, but it seems it is very frequent according to this particular trail journal.
Thanks for everyone's input on this.
Pacific Tortuga
01-15-2007, 20:43
:)
OK, I'm reading the trail journal "Then The Hail Came" (very good by the way, check it out by Googling the title) and I've stumbled upon some rather interesting information I haven't put much thought into untii now: it appears there is a good deal of partying, i.e. getting high and drinking, that takes place at the shelters frequently in this journal. (Is that a run-on sentence or what???)
So my question is this: Is this a common occurence at the shelters along the trail? I want desperately to thru-hike in 2009, and of course meet new people, but the thought of the opportunity to get high is bothering me, because it was a big problem during much of my life. I need to know what to prepare myself for mentally: I haven't read of this in other books/journals until now, but it seems it is very frequent according to this particular trail journal.
Thanks for everyone's input on this.
TENT :cool:
That was written in 1983.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-15-2007, 20:50
We stealth camp primarily because of problems with shelters - partying, mice, other hungry critters, snoring, really smelly hikers. I've been in recovery for 22 yrs - being around those who are very drunk and obnoxious brings back many bad memories. I avoid being in places where I'm 'trapped' with those who are partying (can't leave easily if I wish)
2009ThruHiker
01-15-2007, 20:52
:)
TENT :cool:
So are you saying that is frequent? Perhaps I was misunderstood: I'm not looking for a solution to my concern, only more a better understanding of the frequency of partying at shelters. I'm certain to tent some of the time, and other times I'm certain to use the shelter system.
2009ThruHiker
01-15-2007, 20:54
We stealth camp primarily because of problems with shelters - partying, mice, other hungry critters, snoring, really smelly hikers. I've been in recovery for 22 yrs - being around those who are very drunk and obnoxious brings back many bad memories. I avoid being in places where I'm 'trapped' with those who are partying (can't leave easily if I wish)
Does this allow you to develop friendships with other thru-hikers, or hinder it?
Appalachian Tater
01-15-2007, 20:55
If you thru-hike nobo it is quite common the first few weeks.
Pacific Tortuga
01-15-2007, 20:56
So are you saying that is frequent? Perhaps I was misunderstood: I'm not looking for a solution to my concern, only more a better understanding of the frequency of partying at shelters. I'm certain to tent some of the time, and other times I'm certain to use the shelter system.
NO, I'm out there this year, didn't mean to mislead you ... sorry.
Kerosene
01-15-2007, 20:59
It certainly depends on the time of the year, the popularity of the shelter, and the shelter's accessibility. There are always party people in the thru-hiking rush, but they're typically too tired at the end of their first month of hiking to make much trouble.
I've had more trouble with locals who troop up to a road-accessible shelter to party for the weekend. Don't underestimate how close many of these shelters are to a road of some sort. There are also other popular campsites that attract locals who like to party (I'm thinking of Wind Gap north of Pearisburg that smelled like a frat house after a kegger when I passed through early on a Saturday morning).
Generally I haven't had much of a problem avoiding people who want to party, but then again I tend to hike in the Fall to avoid the crowds.
Blissful
01-15-2007, 21:03
I've had more trouble with locals who troop up to a road-accessible shelter to party for the weekend. Don't underestimate how close many of these shelters are to a road of some sort. There are also other popular campsites that attract locals who like to party (I'm thinking of Wind Gap north of Pearisburg that smelled like a frat house after a kegger when I passed through early on a Saturday morning).
Generally I haven't had much of a problem avoiding people who want to party, but then again I tend to hike in the Fall to avoid the crowds.
Be curious to know the main problem areas so they can be avoided (plus I have a 16 yr old with me) . Is there a list anywhere? I know they had to close the Gov Clement shelter b/c of local problems.
Be curious to know the main problem areas so they can be avoided (plus I have a 16 yr old with me) . Is there a list anywhere? I know they had to close the Gov Clement shelter b/c of local problems.
Avoid shelters near roads. The probability of trouble is directly related to the proximity to a road. And if not the probability, certainly my sense of it.
I have always seen partying on the trail from one end to the other. This does not mean that it is going on at every shelter all the time. I have noticed that the amount of "partiers" on the trail will also vary from year to year. The Southern 500 seems to have more than further north but not a golden rule. The locals will certainly be at the shelters and sites closer to road crossings esp on wknds. I dont see no accurate way to make a "list" of any particular areas known for that as it can occur anywhere at anytime. If you think you may be tempted by those types that will be at some shelters and campsites, then I would highly suggest planning on tenting somewhere away from it. Oh wait, you didnt want any "solutions" did you? Sorry !
RAT
the_iceman
01-15-2007, 21:33
There are two groups that party on the trail. Locals and hikers. As said before the closer to a road crossing the more likely to get a party. Weekend nights are the worst. A sure sign is a lot of trash near a shelter. Check for beer cans in the fire pit.
The hikers that party you just have to get used to and put some distance between you and them if it bothers you. It is most likely the really heavy partiers will not keep up a strong pace for a long period unless they are young and hard core.
Tenting is the preferred option to many for so many reasons, this being only one of them.
So my question is this: Is this a common occurence at the shelters along the trail? I want desperately to thru-hike in 2009, and of course meet new people, but the thought of the opportunity to get high is bothering me, because it was a big problem during much of my life. I need to know what to prepare myself for mentally...
Well then, prepare yourself. Because it will be happening, whether you observe it or not. Otherwise, you had better carry a tent and be prepared to use it, a lot.
I dont drink or smoke weed, but when I hiked to damascus this spring it ended up being that pretty much all of the crowd that I was with smoked weed. Most of them were good about it and did it away from the shelters and never caused trouble. Only one time did a couple of guys start smoking weed in the shelter and had no concern for the rest of us. They didnt even ask anybody if they wanted a hit. If it wasn't the smokies then I would have moved on.
When I was hiking sobo I hiked all the way to New Hampshire before I saw any weed. It seems that the early crowd is a bit more interested in hiking than smokin.
If you think that you might have a problem, start early and tent a lot. The AT is such a social trail that have to pretty much be anti social to get away from weed. If you are really worried about it, just hike the PCT instead. Soboing the AT would also work.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
01-15-2007, 21:54
Does this allow you to develop friendships with other thru-hikers, or hinder it?We stop at shelters to cook dinner and talk often. Then we hike on to a stealth camp. Since we are section hikers, we don't develop the close friendships that many thru-hikers do as they hike together for months. You will find some other hikers that don't want to party down and may end up walking and camping with them.
Jim Adams
01-15-2007, 23:19
locals may be inconsiderate but as a rule you get to know the thru hikers. USUALLY if the thru hikers know that it can be a problem for you, they will hike with you but not present the problem in front of you if you let them know about it. friendships on the trail USUALLY matter more than getting high, even to stoners.
geek
gsingjane
01-16-2007, 08:49
Blissful, I have not found that thru-hikers will drink or smoke anything in front of my kids. Whatever they did when we weren't around wasn't our business (and we always turned in early, tented, and so left people to their own devices) My kids are at a very vulnerable age in terms of seeing that kind of stuff, so I'm always grateful that people have better judgment than to do it in front of them.
HTH,
Jane in CT
If you hang out at shelters, you will meet all kinds of people. It's tempting to generalize about the differences between "hikers" and "the general public" but the fact is you'll meet all kinds. Not all folks you meet at shelters are serious hikers. Some are just folks out for a night or a weekend.
Some folks take great pains to avoid strangers, some welcome them. If you're the kind to be wary of strangers, or find fault with them, then you probably want to carry a tent and avoid the shelters as much as possible.
OTOH, if you're that kind, you're probably not going to have a good time thru-hiking, because it's all about meeting and interacting with strangers. Without that, it's just a long slog through the woods.
MileMonster
01-16-2007, 12:57
My experience -
I don't recall a single instance of a real shelter party on my '04 thru, or on any of my sections for that matter. Sure, some folks disappear and smoke a little, some folks take a nip out of a bottle. Most folks are discreet, though. In my experience a shelter "rager" is an extreme exception, not the rule. Some shelters near road crossings might be lively on the weekend, some town stops can get wild (after all, at the Doyle there's a bar downstairs), and some hiker feeds can snowball. The only shelter problems I had were the typical - mice, snoring, and crowded shelters, and I didn't have many crowded shelters.
Good luck.
- MM.
Shelters can be a squalid experience - parties or not. Hikers with casual attitudes toward personal hygiene, snorers, farts, dogs, mice, snakes, MP3 players you can hear at a distance, trash, dirt, rodent droppings, leaky roofs, overcrowding in bad weather, overcrowding on holidays, folks coming in after everyone is asleep, folks getting up to pee all night, the ones who start banging pans before light. Need I go on?
My experience -
I don't recall a single instance of a real shelter party on my '04 thru, or on any of my sections for that matter. Sure, some folks disappear and smoke a little, some folks take a nip out of a bottle. Most folks are discreet, though. In my experience a shelter "rager" is an extreme exception, not the rule. Some shelters near road crossings might be lively on the weekend, some town stops can get wild (after all, at the Doyle there's a bar downstairs), and some hiker feeds can snowball. The only shelter problems I had were the typical - mice, snoring, and crowded shelters, and I didn't have many crowded shelters. Good luck.- MM.
I had pretty much the same experience in 1993. The binge drinkers binged in the towns. I tended to have an ounce or two of bourbon before supper -- until I ran out, that is, as did a few others. But it could hardly be called partying.
I heard the stories. But little reality. I sort of guessed it was because I started late (mid-April) and the parties all happened earlier. But from the testimony in this thread, some think it was the opposite.
My advice to those for whom alcohol is a special problem is to get in and out of towns quickly. I found the trail to be remarkably sober.
Weary
Be curious to know the main problem areas so they can be avoided (plus I have a 16 yr old with me) . Is there a list anywhere? I know they had to close the Gov Clement shelter b/c of local problems.
I'm not aware of any list and doubt there is one. The comment immediately following yours with respect to road crossings is something you should keep in mind. Also, I expect you would be more apt to encounter situations you may wish to avoid early on.
That said, I would think it would be difficult to predict when you might encounter situations you may consider objectionable. Keep your eyes and ears open and be prepared to move on and tent.
You may be able to assemble or join a group of like-minded people who desire to travel at the same pace with whom you can travel for a short or maybe even a longer distance.
Those who are most apt to be a problem will be stationary or moving slowly. Put some space between yourself and them. That advances your game plan.;)
Programbo
01-16-2007, 20:07
I`m reading the same journal as it is written in the style I like (Day by day recount of points of interest past) and is from back in my era...I think the partying he mentions so much is because back in the 70`s-80`s a lot of the shelters were unfortunately placed close to road access and were not on government lands and thus attracted a lot of local youths or partiers...Of the 6 Maryland shelters open in the late 70`s I think Pine Knob was the furthest from a parking area and that was less than a mile..Most of the others were like less than 1/4 mile from a road and only like 2 were on protected lands
During a thru-hike I would not consider partying at shelters a big problem. You may see some early on and during collage spring break. After that folks settle in to a routine and having a party, after a hard day, isn't part of it.
Ater hiking awhile you will fall in with a group that you enjoy being with and if they party too much, move on and find others who don't. Most dedicated thru-hikers, after a long day, are just ready to clean up a little, eat and get to sleep.
Unfortunately the trail has become a place where some folks want to come and just party from one town to the next. This does exist, but with a little effort you can limit it's effect on your hike. You will, if not already, hear the expression: "Hike your own hike." Do this and have a good time.:)
Footslogger
01-17-2007, 11:55
The only actual "party" at a shelter I recall from 2003 was at Partnership Shelter. Big crowd of hikers, lots of pizza that night and a scout troop showed up the next morning and made everyone pancakes and bacon.
Like Grampie said ...partying at shelters really isn't a big problem. Many if not most hikers are content to eat dinner and crash. Shelters close to towns/roads will sometimes be visited by locals on weekend nights but otherwise my experience is that there isn't what I would call a lot of "partying".
'Slogger
Undershaft
01-17-2007, 14:49
I'm looking forward to some partying on the trail this summer. Although my idea of partying when I'm hiking is very different than the way I party at home. Less people, less noise, less beer when I'm hiking.
A thought: Here on Whiteblaze there are countless threads dealing with behavior that might offend other hikers. Drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, smoking weed, talking on a cell phone, sending/receiving e-mail, listening to music from an mp3 player or other electronic device, making noise(regular noise like cooking, packing, etc.) early in the morning or late at night, shining a headlamp around, and so on and so forth. All the threads I have seen on this subject revolve around these activities taking place inside a shelter. The stated solution, without fail, is always to stay in a tent to avoid having to deal with these issues. The logical extension of this thought is to stay in your tent, if you will be undertaking any of these activities, to avoid causing any issues with other hikers. The latter statement has always worked for me. Or so I have thought. Until today, I believed my activities(which include a couple of the above) could not offend others because they were done when no one was around, or they were done inside my tent. However reading this thread it occured to me that I usually set up my tent in close proximity to a shelter or another tent platform. My (potentially offensive) activities cannot be seen, but they could easily be detected by the nose and ears of others that came close to my tent. Is this a problem? Have I offended fellow hikers with the smell of burning tobacco flowing out of my vestibule or the sound of my voice using a cell phone?
I would be very interested to hear the thoughts of other WBers on this subject. I think we can all agree that [whatever] is not a problem when stealth camping far from other people. But what about camping only ten or twenty feet from other people?
My personal solution is not to be easily offended. Smoking, drinking, and whatnot don't particularly bother me.
If something does bother me, I speak up. The only time I did that this year on my Hike was when some Boy Scouts were making a huge ruckus late into the night at the AMC Highland Center. I asked them nicely once to be quiet. That didn't work. Ten minutes later I told them to "Shut the F. up, go into their rooms, and not slam the doors anymore." They did all of those things and I went back to sleep.
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2007, 19:20
One thing for the 2007 folks to keep in mind:
A lot of hikers gravitate to shelters early in their hikes for any number of reasons: They want to meet the folks they'll be hiking with for 6 months; they look forward to company at the end of the day; it makes miseries such as fatigue, injuries, etc., a bit easier to take if there are other folks around. Add to this the fact that shelters are usually in scenic spots, with good water, often a picnic table for cooking, etc.
However, some folks avoid shelters and established campsites precisely because they don't want to be around too many people, too much activity, noise, etc.
Here's a good alternative: When you get to a shelter or large campsite, remember that if you continue along the Trail northwards, there are almost always really good campsites just fifty or a hundred yards (maybe a bit more sometimes) just past the shelter. So if you want, you can make for the shelter at the end of the day, meet your fellow hikers and spend time with them, cook your dinner at the table, maybe enjoy a campfire, but if it's a bit too much activity, or if it looks like folks might be staying up a bit later than you want, you'll still have a nice, quiet, private campsite just a few yards down the Trail.
It's possible to join in on the comaraderie of shelter life without being overwhelmed by it. In the early days of the trip, I enjoy staying NEAR shelters or established campsites, but not actually IN them. This way you get all the benefits of a "communal" overnight spot without any of the potential negatives.
Yeah, Jack,
Sage advice and a balanced perspective - even for folks who don't like to be in the shelter itself.
Jack's message (#29) is just plain common sense. Usually there are places to pitch a tent, not far from a shelter. That's not always the case, though.
It gets a bit creative sometimes when fifteen hikers all try to make dinner at the same time. When it's raining out, it gets to be a more segregated crowd -- the sheltered vs. the tented (especially in small, old shelters without lofts or overhangs.)
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2007, 20:26
Terrrapin is correct, there aren't ALWAYS campsites near the shelter.
But there usually are, in fact there almost always are, if one is willing to look.
Which of course, is exactly what I said. :rolleyes:
Not arguing at all, Jack. You presented a common sense, middle-ground, sensible "solution." It's not often that we agree, so try to make the best of it, OK? ;) I'm an engineer, and my role in life is to discover and point out irksome details in otherwise beautiful plans. :-? Don't take it personally.
Jack Tarlin
01-17-2007, 20:45
Actually, excluding matters political, we probably agree on more than you might care to admit! :D
DawnTreader
01-17-2007, 22:40
I used this exact method with my hammock.. It worked great.. I could control the amount of company by simply walking a ways into the woods to hang, and do other of the above offences mentioned above.
So my question is this: Is this a common occurence at the shelters along the trail? I want desperately to thru-hike in 2009, and of course meet new people, but the thought of the opportunity to get high is bothering me, because it was a big problem during much of my life. I need to know what to prepare myself for mentally: I haven't read of this in other books/journals until now, but it seems it is very frequent according to this particular trail journal.
Thanks for everyone's input on this.
I wouldn't worry too much. After the crowds thin out (lots leave in Ga, many more NC/Tn), it will get down to the truly serious hikers. Most evenings, all the thru-hikers will be asleep within an hour after dark. Heck, I told a friend of mine, "Some nights I didn't even know it had been dark."
It also depends on what you call a party. Most "parties" I've seen were pretty small by party standards. And, they were few at best. One of the most memorable I remember was at Eckville Shelter. There was beer, music, popsicles, cold drinks and a weary bunch of thru-hikers glad to be in each others company again. I don't even know why it happened or when it started, but we all got silly, made a bunch of racket and had a ball. We stayed up really late, like maybe 10 o'clock.:D Next morning, headed for Katahdin...again. Just another 20 mile day in paradise.
You will encounter lots of unexpected and varied problems. Handle them and keep moving north. Listen to Baltimore Jack, if the shelter is a problem move on a little ways.
It's your trip, Hike Your Own Hike!
GlazeDog
01-20-2007, 20:09
I only saw partying and weed at Partnership SHelter--of course there's a phone to order pizza and also a hot shower at the two story shelter. So this place is unique on the trail. I don't think you need to be concerned. Also only 2-3 out of 25 smoked weed at this shelter and some were very upset privately about the disrespect.
GlazeDog
We stealth camp primarily because of problems with shelters - partying, mice, other hungry critters, snoring, really smelly hikers. I've been in recovery for 22 yrs - being around those who are very drunk and obnoxious brings back many bad memories. I avoid being in places where I'm 'trapped' with those who are partying (can't leave easily if I wish)
:) thats cool,my sober date oct 26 1994:cool: neo
I only saw partying and weed at Partnership SHelter--of course there's a phone to order pizza and also a hot shower at the two story shelter. So this place is unique on the trail. I don't think you need to be concerned. Also only 2-3 out of 25 smoked weed at this shelter and some were very upset privately about the disrespect.
GlazeDog
i did not stay there either,looked like bunch of drinking there besides being over crowded:cool: neo
Appalachian Tater
01-21-2007, 12:28
The only party I saw at Partnership was a pizza party, but I was just passing through.
The only party I saw at Partnership was a pizza party, but I was just passing through.
I stayed at Partnership for about a week this winter, while I was slacking the area. Besides the guy I was hiking with, no one else was there.
Moral of the story--if you really want to have shelters to yourself, hike SOBO.
Moral of the story--if you really want to have shelters to yourself, hike SOBO.
Or hike in sections, off season. :)
Off season= October through June in these parts. Just a few locals kickin round 9 mos. out of the year for the most part.
I didn't do any partying on the trail. Didn't drink. Didn't smoke. None of the people I hiked with smoke or drank. At least not from what I could tell. Except when in town we would drink beer. One guy I drank with was a noticeable alchoholic. I stopped drinking with him. I did smell pot once when I stopped off at a shelter during a rainstorm. Nobody said anything to me and I moved on. Maybe they thought I was a cop. If your around people lighting up go find something else to do. If they offer you a smoke just say no thanks. Every time you do that the next time is easier. I know. I use to smoke oftern 25 years ago and went cold turkey. Never touched it again. Good luck.
I saw more partying (which is to say smoking, drinking and drug use) on the AT at shelters than I have anywhere else and any other time in my life. Frankly it very much detracted from my experience.
I will say that north of Harpers Ferry the partying markedly deccreased. I found it worst at shelters near roads, and on the southern portions of the trail...probably because by the time one gets up north, the partiers have dropped out..though they never drop out completely. It was really sad and pathetic seeing folks chain smoking and swigging bottles up in Gorham.
Had I the chance to hike the AT again I would:
1) tent more and shelter a lot less
2) avoid Roan High Knob and the Watagua Dam Shelter
3) avoid any trail magic where beer is advertized or emphasised.
The problem is though...sometimes one is too tired to move on past a shelter or not want to set up the tent. And some times one arrives at a shelter alone all is fine and peaceful..only to find a couple hours later a bunch of beer drinking pot smoking yahoos show up. How any one can go into the mountains where the air is so pure and clean and delight in filling them selves with polluting nichotine and disgusting pot smoke is beyond me! And even though it's outside, smoking next to someone, and giving him your second hand smoke has to be the ultimate in lack of consideration. That happened to me at more than one shelter.
DavidNH
Fannypack
01-26-2007, 19:33
............How any one can go into the mountains where the air is so pure and clean and delight in filling them selves with polluting nichotine and disgusting pot smoke is beyond me!.........
agree with u; of course, I guess i could be called "judgmental"...; with this said, I just move on....
another subject: Dogs in shelters are my pet peeve....
Jester2000
01-26-2007, 19:56
On my hike I didn't notice anything that could be referred to as "partying." I did not smoke weed but had friends who did. They tended to be discreet about it, unless they knew everyone in the shelter and knew that those people were OK with it. I usually have some Beam with me, but aside from the occasional sip or two I can honestly say that I'm usually too tired at the end of a day of hiking to "party."
I think that incidents you may hear about involving parties on the trail in shelters are few and far between, and tend to come from people who weren't there, but "heard about it from someone who was."
Most people I know do that sort of thing in town. Oh, except in 2002, when Jack and I met while I was on the Long Trail and he was NOBO AT. We met during the day north of White Rocks Mtn., sat down on a rock, and drank too much. Then we hiked on our separate ways.
Jack Tarlin
01-28-2007, 17:08
If there are aspects of the social life that exists at shelters that actually end up "detracting" from someone's Trail experience, well, sheesh, there seems to be an easy remedy:
Don't stay in shelters. Jesus, people, it's not that complicated. It'd take most people one, maybe two bad shelter experiences to figure this out.
Very True.
But let's not forget that while illegal drug use and alcohol fueled merryment should be no cause for complaint (plenty of spots in the woods for those who would don't like this), there are certain activities that are.
There is an official list somewhere, but I think it includes:
Harmonicas
Late night arrivals and reunions
Early morning Wisperlights
Anything to do with dogs
Alcohol and drug use of weekenders on non-thru-hiker clocksThis is my understanding, anyway.
Jack Tarlin
01-28-2007, 17:40
Good post, Rick, especially about the harmonicas.
This applies to the guitarists as well, of which there are far too many.
An overwhelming number of trail pickers can't play worth a lick, and their singing is worse. In fact, their singing is usually indescribably awful.
People should NOT take for granted that everyone at the shelter or fire pit wants to hear them sing and play at day's end.
In most cases, they'd happily pay cash money if you STOPPED.
totally Boagus
01-28-2007, 17:46
Hey Jack,
why do ya think thier friends sent them out to the woods to play and sing:-?
Lone Wolf
01-28-2007, 17:56
Good post, Rick, especially about the harmonicas.
This applies to the guitarists as well, of which there are far too many.
An overwhelming number of trail pickers can't play worth a lick, and their singing is worse. In fact, their singing is usually indescribably awful.
People should NOT take for granted that everyone at the shelter or fire pit wants to hear them sing and play at day's end.
In most cases, they'd happily pay cash money if you STOPPED.
..and those bunghole wannabe flute/recorder players thinkin' they're some reincarnated native.:rolleyes:
Wouldn't it make more sense to have rules for the use of shelters that allow people to coexist peacefully and promote legal and mutually beneficial behavior and are enforced by those who use them? Those who don't wish to follow those rules would be banished to the woods by those who respect them, who one would hope would be in the majority.
Sorry, I really must stop trying to make sense!:D
Userdude
01-28-2007, 21:24
filling them selves with polluting nichotine and disgusting pot smoke is beyond me! And even though it's outside, smoking next to someone, and giving him your second hand smoke has to be the ultimate in lack of consideration. That happened to me at more than one shelter. DavidNH
Glad to see you made it out OK :rolleyes:
saimyoji
01-28-2007, 22:33
Glad to see you made it out OK :rolleyes:
Physically anyway.... Apparently there are deep emotional scars.... :D